From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #43 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, January 26 1999 Volume 04 : Number 043 The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Murray McLauchlan bio ["Deb Messling" ] Atwood and Mitchell [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ] Beatles [Brian Gross ] Meaningless triangles and other queer stuff (NJC) [Michael Yarbrough ] Re[2]: another perspective on impeachment (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.c] Re: omnisexual (njc) ["Don Rowe" ] Re: the man hater's club (SJC) [David Wright ] Christine McVie on Joni in the '70s ["Don Rowe" ] movie request (total NJC) [evian ] Fwd: Suspenders [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Fwd: Suspenders ["Don Rowe" ] Re: A Bill Gates joke for you [Mark Domyancich ] Happy Australia Day! (NJC) ["Don Rowe" ] Please Forward To Sherrie Good(NJC) [Bounced Message ] Gotta go [Bounced Message ] Time To Say Goodbye (NJC) [Bounced Message ] fags and hags - NJC [Bounced Message ] Re: Atwood and Mitchell [The Humphreys ] Re: Suspenders [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: omnisexual (njc) [Susan Chaloner ] Re: omnisexual (njc) ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re: Wet Yourselves [Marilune@aol.com] Re: Re: Pink triangles & Jewish stars (NJC) [Marilune@aol.com] Re: Re: Pink triangles & Jewish stars (NJC) [Mark Domyancich ] Fw: Henry's Gallery News ["Kakki" ] Re: omnisexual (njc) [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: omnisexual (njc) ["Dr. Martin van Thomas-Paupertin" Subject: Murray McLauchlan bio Canadian songwriter Murray McLauchlan has written an autobiography that includes discussion of his "crush on Joni Mitchell, " among other things. Unfortunately, I forget the name of the book. MM is probably most well known in the States for "Child's Song," which was recorded by Tom Rush. Deb Messling ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 02:19:33 +1100 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Atwood and Mitchell I just finished reading Margaret Atwood's "Cat's Eye" (around 1/2 hour ago) and during the novel it struck me that perhaps her character Elaine is in may ways similar to Joni? What do I mean? I'm not particularly sure yet as the novel is still raw and floating around my head but what struck me was the attitude of Elaine in regards to men and women. She regards women as alien and intimidating whilst she finds she's more comfortable with men and being one of the boys... she understands their silences. I would quote if I was thinking clearer but it's slipping away too quickly. Perhaps rather than Joni being a 'woman' hater she doesn't identify or understand them as she does men? The manipulative games that girls' can play, the mind games... maybe it's the subtle treachery she rejects. The bitchiness of school and trying to fit in? I remember being reviled at school because I adored Annie Lennox and not Cold Chisel (an Australian band) who were considered the bee's knees at school. The malicious mocking that girl's can do so well... I admit I've done it. If it was not so late and I retained information better I would explain more. I'm just thinking of the Roy Roger's stories that Joni tells on one of the tape trees. Maybe someone else could take this up and explain it for me? :-) I just found the book remarkable and so heart wrenching. Vanessa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:56:28 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Beatles Good morning, all. While driving yesterday, listening to Joni's Top 12 from 1983 (Tape Tree#5), she calls the Beatles as the Messiahs of the 60's. So Marsha, I guess that means that you and I should prepare to be drawn and quartered, huh? Brian np: NPR discussion of sex === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:59:35 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Meaningless triangles and other queer stuff (NJC) Eric Taylor wrote: <<>> I hate this phrase, too. It's proof that minority sexual orientation isn't enough to help some men transcend their misogyny. But, if Grace Slick likes to use the word to describe herself, more power to her... <<>> First, I don't think the word "queer" is politically correct. A number of people (myself included) may identify as queer, but none of these people (to my knowledge) demand that other people identify as such. Why do I use this word? Well, years of queer theory can't explain it as well as one child's saying: "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names can never hurt me." That's the short answer. There are a couple of other reasons, chief among which is that the community of which I like to feel a part includes not only gay men but lesbians, bisexuals, transgendered people and our straight allies. "Queer" to me is an effective and inclusive shorthand for this community. Alan wrote: <<>> Well I, for one, don't see my sexual orientation as trivial or meaningless. I was never given that option. It's too late to go back, too. My experiences have been shaped to a large degree by a society that refuses to let me forget how different I am. While I respect and believe in efforts to move beyond that stage, we cannot do it by pretending the stage never existed in the first place. This is another reason I like the word queer. It emphasizes difference, but in a powerful way. I happen to think that the world could benefit from a little transformative difference, and queers are among the wide array of people who can bring it about. Patrick wrote: <<>> Absolutely, and it's these kids who will bring about a new vision of community, not "straight-acting and -appearing" assimilationists. - --Michael NP: Deana Carter, _Did I Shave My Legs for This?_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:17:11 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Meaningless triangles and other queer stuff (NJC) Michael Yarborough wrote: > Absolutely, and it's these kids who will bring about a new vision > of community, not "straight-acting and -appearing" assimilationists. whilst I can see the objection when such a term is used in personal ads, one needs to know that the majority of gay men are indeed str8 acting and appearing. Why should they camp it up just to fit in with the new look and behaviour? This attitude can be just as offensive and cause pain. A couple of years back, I and sevral other men, worked at an HIV?Aids centre. Because none of us fit the modern picture of gay men we were ostracised repepatedly and eventually forced to leave by the 'gay fascists'. Why? because we didn't confirm with multiple body piercings, hip cltothes and shaved heads! The fact that I lived and loved with only 1 man and had done for 16 yrs(at that time) was also frowned upon. When I said I did NOT practise safe sex thay got truly offensive and uptight. Phil, a man in his 50's, was the first to blow his top.Now I don't consider myself particulalry st8 acting or anything but my partner John certainly is. Not even I would have know he was gay. However, we are the way we are - -ourselves. I have spent my whole life fighting to be myself, as has John, and I will NOT now succumb to the new gay fascism. BTW Michael, these thought were what came up. I am jot accusing you of being as I describe! bw colin > > > --Michael > > NP: Deana Carter, _Did I Shave My Legs for This?_ - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:39:11 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: Meaningless triangles and other queer stuff (NJC) Colin wrote: <<>> This is not at all what I mean. I do not favor either self-conscious transgression or self-conscious assimilation. I favor self-honest expression. While I agree there are some queerfolk who assume a certain identity not because it's theirs but because it seems hip, cool, or (goddess forbid) politically correct, it's far more common that queerfolk adopt mainstream identities out of fear, internalized homophobia or (goddess forbid) necessity. Though I believe in the word queer as an identity that ties me to a community, I do not believe in a concept of queer-acting and -appearing. Likewise, I do not believe in a concept of straight-acting and -appearing. It is misguided and homophobic. Those who've met me might understand what I mean a little better. All those radical thoughts reside in a rather mainstream- appearing (though certainly not masculine!) facade. :-) My problem is always that I look like the preppy fags but think like the Queer Nationalists. Oh well. There are worse dilemmas. :-) - --Michael NP: Led Zeppelin, _Physical Graffiti_ (not really but since I can't post from home anymore I have to fit in the albums I listened to this weekend. :-) ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:11:31 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Chris Duarte (NJC) As mentioned previously, I went to see Chris Duarte Friday night. It was a great show, really a throwback to the 70's concept of "Power Trio" as there was just him, bass, and drums. He was very animated, he had to keep re-fixing his ponytail because he was jumping up and down, shaking his head, etc. He also had to change out guitars pretty much after each song as he was just banging the hell out it with every number. They played for 2 1/2 hours with no break, his style was similar to Stevie Ray & Jimi, but I think the closest comparison would be David Gilmour from Pink Floyd. His solos were very atmospheric and he used a lot of effects, combined with his dry wispy vocal it was very Floyd-ish indeed, especially his cover of "The Thrill Is Gone" (if you can believe that!) If you like good LOUD rockin' guitar, he's definitely worth a checkout when he comes to your town... Bob NP: Neil Young, "Unknown Legend" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:53:19 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: A Bill Gates joke for you s many people have probably heard by now,Bill Gates built a new home, a VERY large home, 35 garages, several buildings and so on. However, the problems he's had with the house are much less known. The following is an excerpt from a conversation Bill had with his new home contractors: Bill: There are a few issues we need to discuss Contractor: Ah, you have our basic support option. Calls are free for the first 90 days and a $75 call thereafter. Okay? Bill: Uh, yeah. The first issue is the living room. We think it's a little smaller than we anticipated. Contractor: Yeah, some compromises were made to have it out by the release date. Bill: We won't be able to fit all our furniture in there. Contractor: Well, you have two options. You can purchase a new, larger living room. Or you can use a stacker. Bill: Stacker? Contractor: Yeah, it allows you to fit twice as much furniture into the living room. By stacking it, of course, you put the entertainment center on the couch, the chairs on the table, etc. You leave an empty spot, so that when you want to use some furniture, you can unstack what you need and put it back when you're done. Bill: Uh, I dunno... Issue two. The second issue is the light fixtures. The light bulbs we brought with us from our old house don't fit. The threads run the wrong way. Contractor: Oh, that's a feature! The bulbs you have aren't plug and play. You'll have to upgrade to new bulbs. Bill: And the electrical outlets? The holes are round instead of rectangular. How do I fix that? Contractor: That's another feature designed with the customer in mind. Just uninstall and reinstall the electrical system. Bill: You're kidding!?! Contractor: Nope, it's the only way. Bill: (Sighing) Well, I have one last problem. Sometimes when I have guests, someone will flush the toilet and it won't stop. The water pressure drops so low that the showers don't work. Contractor: That's a resource leakage problem. One fixture is failing to terminate and is hogging the resource, preventing other fixtures from accessing. Bill: And how do I fix that? Contractor: Well, after each flush, you all need to exit the house, turn off the water at the street, turn it back on, re-enter the house. Then you can get back to work. Bill: That's the last straw! What kind of product are you selling me? Contractor: Hey, if you don't like it, nobody made you buy it. Bill: And when will it be fixed? Contractor: Oh, in the next house, which we'll be ready to release next year. Actually it was due out this year, but we've had some delays... (Sound familiar?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:59:31 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: another perspective on impeachment (NJC) My sister sent this to me and I want to share it with all of you: "He who publicly shames his neighbor is as though he shed blood." Talmud Baba Mezia 58b Americans have been discussing the moral issues of the Starr Report in terms of the values of Christianity. From the perspective of Judaism, however, the terms of the discussion change. Unfortunately, even very few Jews are aware that Judaism teaches a different set of moral principles. According to classical Jewish law, President Clinton did not commit adultery; adultery is defined as a married man having intercourse with a married woman, and Monica Lewinsky is single. At worst, President Clinton is guilty of the common sin of onanism, a sin that probably afflicts the consciences of most Jewish men at one time or another. While most of our moral debate focuses on the actions of President Clinton, the worst sin from the perspective of Jewish law is the public humiliation of President Clinton, undertaken by Kenneth W. Starr with the cooperation of the House Judiciary Committee. According to the Talmud, humiliating a human being in public is tantamount to murder, and, like murder, is a sin that can never be forgiven. Repentance is not possible for Mr. Starr, because it must be preceded by reparation. Neither murder nor the destruction of a person's reputation can ever be restored, so the sinner can never receive forgiveness. Seen in Talmudic perspective, the Starr Report, with its salacious and often irrelevant sexual details from Monica Lewinsky's testimony, constitutes assassination. For the members of the U.S. Congress to make public a Report that humiliates the President, his wife, and his daughter makes them partners in this assassination. >From the perspective of Jewish history, we have to ask how Jews can condemn President Clinton's behavior as immoral, when we exalt King David? Clearly, David's affair with Batsheva was far more insidious - David had Batsheva's husband, Uriah, murdered. While David was condemned and punished, he was never thrown off the throne of Israel. On the contrary, he is exalted in our Jewish memory as the unifier of Israel, the builder of Jerusalem, the author of our psalms, the ancestor of the messiah. His wicked deed of murder was placed in perspective and the entirety of his life was judged, without condemning him on the basis of one sin, as outrageous as it was. If President Clinton should be asked to resign his office, then King David ought to be wiped from our memory. Also troubling is the rush by some Jewish leaders, such as Senator Joseph Lieberman and Rabbi Ismar Schorsch, to condemn President Clinton, when they uttered not a peep concerning Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu's admitted confession to adultery. When was Netanyahu ever condemned as unfit to hold office because of his affairs? Jews like to say that President Clinton has been one of the best friends Israel and the Jewish people have had in the presidency; what kind of integrity do we have, if we abandon our friend when powerful people are trying to assassinate him? Finally, certain members of Congress, including Representative Gephardt, have condemned President Clinton's efforts at self-defense as legal "hair- splitting," as if that were beneath contempt. The term itself derives from age-old Christian polemics that Judaism is a legalistic system that fails to understand religious values of love and charity. Yet unlike Christianity, Judaism rests on a system of law that demands and exalts hair-splitting, due process, and minute precision in its judicial decision-making. Just as we expect minute precision from our physicians and scientists, why not expect it from our religions? There is no shame in hair-splitting, despite the mockery and contempt in which it has been held for centuries by Christians. Exactitude is the most important feature of Jewish law, and without it there can be no justice, and without justice there can be no viable society. This country's population contains a majority of Christians, but the often very different values and principles of other citizens - among them, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists - must also be heard. Christianity is but one of many systems of religious values, not the only one. Prof. Susannah Heschel Department of Religion Dartmouth College 6036 Thornton Hall Hanover, NH 03755-3592 (603) 646-2386 Fax: (603) 646-1699 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:40:48 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Meaningless triangles and other queer stuff (NJC) Michael-I knew you meant better hence my last line about those just being thoughts of mine triggered by what you wrote-not as an attack on your position! bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:40:40 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: another perspective on impeachment (NJC) Thanks Paul. very interesting. I didn't know that about the Jewish faith. IMO the lack of forgiveness tho is not something to be admired. However, it is at least honest and doesn't display the hypocrisy seen in the xtian faith, where they cannot seem to make up their mind if it is the new testament or the Old that they follow. Horses for courses it would appear. As for Clinton - it seems here that most people look upon Starr in disgust. the whole thing seems to be a witch hunt by the Right-get Clinton by whatever means available and they have done themselves a great deal of damage. people here sympathise with Clinton. As do I. That isn't to say i think he hasn't done something wrong-who hasn't-but that it is all blown out of proportion. It is also hypocritical as republicans have done just the same-had affairs. I particulrly liked Larry Flints advertisement for anyone who had an affair with a republican. What people like Star forget is that they come across as the worst kind of sinner-self righteous, judgemental, and full of pride. @many will call me Lord' Jesus said,' but I will not hear them'. IMO that applies to Star and those of the fundie persuasion. As Clinton is only the 2nd Pres to be impeached, what the hell happened with regards Nixon and Reagan? bw colin ps: forgiveness is the hardest thing to achieve but still one worth working towards or at least being willing to. I think it comes on it's own-cannot be made to happen-otherwise on is in danger of 'cheap forgiveness' where it is merely an intellectual decision and a way to avoid crushing pain. Much easier to say'I forgive' when one hasn't felt the injury. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:52:35 -0600 From: evian Subject: omnisexual (njc) > I really admired Sarah McLachlan when she refused to let people label > her; I think she called herself "omni sexual," > Did Sarah also refer to herself as omnisexual? I thought it was Sophie B. Hawkins who used this term.Evian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:59:27 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: another perspective on impeachment (NJC) Colin asks: <> Nixon resigned before he could be impeached, and Cowboy Ronnie never received blame for anything because he had "no recollection". Of course, since he had Alzheimer's, he *might not* have been lying... Bob NP: N. Young, "Eldorado" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:05:14 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: omnisexual (njc) >Did Sarah also refer to herself as omnisexual? I thought it was Sophie >B. Hawkins who used this term.Evian > Boy there's a loaded term! You know, if there was someone around with a particularly filthy mind, they might be tempted to ask if that included livestock and inflatable dolls ... that is, IF there was such a person around. ;-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:10:50 -0500 (EST) From: David Wright Subject: Re: the man hater's club (SJC) P. Henry writes: > > ...but it is sheer grandiosity > to think that the knowing in any way elevates the perceiver to any > degree of creativity or brings the artist down to anywhere near their > level, yet that is the feeling I get from many of these posters... > > I, for one, do not feel I am in any place to be able to discern what > makes Joni tick for that would require me to walk a mile in her shoes > and that is something these humble feet could never do because she is a > true artist (perhaps the greatest of this century) and there is no way I > could begin to fathom what her life experience is... Well, as an aside, I guess I sure have a higher opinion of the role of the perceiver in art than P. Henry does....I don't think they need any elevating. (Except in the public mind.) I think they perform a necessary function in art, and there CAN be creativity involved in perception. Anyway...I don't know whether *anyone*, including "true artists," can fully fathom what anyone else's life experience is. There's an element of mystery and rarity in everyone's life, equally, that is not more easily penetrated by artists (as P. Henry seems to imply) than by anyone else. (One of my favorite Flannery O'Connor lines: "It's all kinds of them just like it's all kinds of us.") In a sense I guess I'm agreeing with P. Henry but for very different reasons. I read an interesting article not long ago about the myth of the "lonely artist" (i.e., the Van Gogh/Beethoven archetype), and why it's basically anachronistic, elitist, and damaging to people who create art - -- "artist" is a loaded word -- in today's society. Take care, - --David P.S. I also once read an article which called Grace Slick "the only man-hating songwriter who is also a misogynist." (Technically, the male counterpart of misogyny, if I remember correctly, is "misandry," BTW.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:13:31 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Christine McVie on Joni in the '70s A friend of mine on the Fleetwood Mac list sent this, and I thought I'd pass it on ... "I don't struggle over my songs. I write them quickly and I've never written a lot. I write what is required of me. For me, people like Joni Mitchell are making too much of a statement. I don't really write about myself, which puts me in a safe little cocoon... I'm a pretty basic love song writer". -- Christine McVie, 1976 Now let's not pillory sweet Christine just yet. I think she's being very honest, and in an odd left-handed sort of way, complimenting Joni on her skill. And look at that date! Talk about the "statement" that's fixin' to come out ... gotta love this in hindsight! Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:12:22 -0600 From: evian Subject: movie request (total NJC) Hi Listers, I have a kinda sorta big favor to ask some nice American with cable. Tomorrow on AMC, at 4:30 Eastern Time, there is this cheesy old movie called HOMICIDAL on. Anyway, I have been searching for this movie since I was a teenager, but it is not on video. Anyway, I watched this movie when I was a kid with my sister and her husband, and even though it is probably the stupidest thing ever, we were completely terrified. Well, I have been trying for years to track it down so that I could give it as a gift to my sister, but everyone I have contacted said "we don't have it under license this year" or something. Well, I went searching a while back on the AMC web site and found out that they show the movie every once in a while. I actually arranged for a friend in Nashville to tape it, and she did... but then her husband taped over it, and she was too scared to tell me for months. Well, I see that it is on again tomorrow, and I really would like to get it taped for my sister. She keeps asking me when I am getting the tape from my friend in Nashville, but I haven't had the heart to tell her that it got erased. Her husband passed away last year, and I think that she would like to see it, just to reminisce about the time we all watched it when she was a newlywed, because, long story I won't bore you with, it was a memorable evening. The movie is just a cheesy PSYCHO rip-off, but still, I would do anything to get my hands on it. I will pay whoever for the tape, shipping, and give my right eye for this movie, so if anyone has AMC and would tape it, please let me know. Sorry for using the list for this, but I am desparate! Evian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:47:24 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Suspenders This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_917300845_boundary Content-ID: <0_917300845@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 1/25/99 4:58:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, lreason@unog.ch writes: > I get the jmdl but am blocked (at work) from posting, so have to send > individual e:mails. > > I HAD to write to tell you (I don't remember how I know this) that the > suspenders James so proudly DISPLAYS on Mud Slide Slim were > needlepointed by Joni. Look closely - I believe (if memory serves) > you'll see cats... > > Enjoy the list. > > Lori Reason > reason@un.org > - --part0_917300845_boundary Content-ID: <0_917300845@inet_out.mail.unog.ch.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from relay29.mx.aol.com (relay29.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.29]) by air05.mail.aol.com (v56.24) with SMTP; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:58:02 1900 Received: from server.unog.ch (server.unog.ch [193.135.136.40]) by relay29.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id EAA14833 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:58:01 -0500 (EST) From: lreason@unog.ch Received: from unog.ch (193.135.136.15) by server.unog.ch (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.9D91C700@server.unog.ch>; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:58:18 +0000 Received: from ccMail by unog.ch (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.11.00.3) id AA917258288; Mon, 25 Jan 99 10:58:09 +0100 Message-Id: <9901259172.AA917258288@unog.ch> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.11.00.3 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 99 10:54:20 +0100 To: Subject: Suspenders Content-Description: "cc:Mail Note Part" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I get the jmdl but am blocked (at work) from posting, so have to send= individual e:mails. I HAD to write to tell you (I don't remember how I know this) that th= e suspenders James so proudly DISPLAYS on Mud Slide Slim were needlepointed by Joni. Look closely - I believe (if memory serves) you'll see cats... Enjoy the list. Lori Reason reason@un.org - --part0_917300845_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:09:42 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Fwd: Suspenders Gina forwards this interesting bit of trivia ... >the suspenders James so proudly DISPLAYS on Mud Slide Slim were >needlepointed by Joni. Look closely - I believe (if memory serves) >you'll see cats... Wow! I'm going to have to check that out. But let's see -- Mud Slide Slim and the Blue Horizon was released in 1971 -- if memory serves. So here we find Joni "the dotty cat ingenue" (to paraphrase a recent reviewer of TTT who labeled Joni a "Dotty old cat lady"). ;-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:41:00 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: A Bill Gates joke for you > Contractor: Yeah, some compromises were made to have it out by the release > date. Which reminds me: Windows 2000 has been pushed back to 1901. Mark NP-Free Man In Paris ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:44:27 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Happy Australia Day! (NJC) Just wanted to shock and amaze you that a Yank would even know about it! Actually, it shows up on my annual Beatles calendar. So what constitutes a typical Australia Day celebration? Whatever it is, have a good one ... Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:14:21 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Please Forward To Sherrie Good(NJC) From: "Hejira" Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 03:45:44 -0000 Hi I am really sorry about this. Sherrie did respond last time but, me being the fool I am lost it somewhere in the belly of my p.c. SO. Sherrie could you send me your email address again so I can write you back. Thanks and sorry to be a pain. All the best Kevin HEJIRA28@CLASSIC.MSN.CON ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:15:32 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Gotta go Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:06:46 -0500 From: "John M. Lind" Hey evrybody, Just a note before I go(to paraphrase Mr. Nash). Things are getting too busy with work and life in general here in my neck of the woods so I'm going to be un.sub.scribing. If anybody wants to keep in touch just send me your e-mail address. I'll keep an eye on the web pages and hopefully be back(sooner or later). John~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:14:55 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Time To Say Goodbye (NJC) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:34:37 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Well, it's never much fun to have to bid your farewells, but due to my circumstances I will not be continuing to use the internet or e-mail...which means I have to un.su.b from this wonderful list. I've really enjoyed my time on the JMDL...there is no other listserv I know of that is quite like it. Thank you for so many evocative and insightful postings, and for the odd light relief too. My best to you all, Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:13:51 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: fags and hags - NJC From: CarltonCT@aol.com Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 16:47:41 EST Eric has got to be a great guy and an all around considerate person. That whole question of names and labels we use is a sticky one, but I've heard more than a few women describe themselves as "fag hags." Women who hang with gay men fall into two categories: There are "women who have gay friends." These tend to be women who are married or have boyfriends, or who have largely successful histories in relationships with the opposite sex. They happen to have some gay male friends. A true "fag hag" is a woman who falls in love with gay men, over and over again, even though there is never the slightest chance that her love object could possibly return her affections. Often enough, these tend to be women who love a lot of the same things that gay men are presumed to like - musical comedy, opera, good cooking, shows like ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS, refined tastes in furnishings. Some are possessed of a biting sense of humor, many are considered "overweight" by modern, Western standards. These women just aren't interested in straight guys -- some would conjecture they are playing it safe by falling for what they know is unattainable. One friend, a shrink no less, describes herself as "a gay man trapped in the body of a woman." Some of these women even go so far as to get sex changes so they can be men dating gay males. Two funny novels dealing with the subject matter are FAG HAG by Robert Rodi, and LOVE JUNKIE by Robert Plunkett. Plunkett's novel, in particular, is a darkly humorous story about a bored Presbyterian housewife whose mundane life is turned around when she meets and falls in love with a colorful interior designer. Many "fag hags" seem perfectly accepting about their own "orientation," and some leave it when they find a suitable straight guy. As a teenager, it took me a long time to get used to the word "gay" in describing myself. "Gay" seemed so whimsical and silly. "Homosexual" is a mouthful, but seemed to me a scientific and rational choice, and has "heterosexual" as its equal opposite. Sometime in the late Eighties, the movement was on to call ourselves "Queer." Well, why not, though that has no appeal for me. It took so long to get used to "gay. " Anyway, it helps to march out all those negative words into the sunshine where their open usage takes away from their power to hurt us. Gay people are very often in the habit of referring to themselves as fags, queens, etc. Growing up, when we hear those words muttered about or screamed at us, it can really hurt. To be able to use those words casually and in a tongue-in-cheek way about ourselves and others is a way of destroying those words' power to harm us. Clark NP: Dave Matthew's, CRASH ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:18:50 -0500 From: The Humphreys Subject: Re: Atwood and Mitchell I read Cat's Eye about three years ago and also found it compelling, disturbing, and quite layered. I don't remember the characters names though. Who was Elaine? I vascillate at times when trying to analyze Joni's varied statements on women, men, life in general, etc. I sometimes think it comes from a deep seated insecurity (which most everything these days can be blamed on in some form or fashion), and at other times, the difficulty in living in a world that doesn't meet your expectations because you (Joni) are more intuitive, creative, and to the point than most. How frustrating it would be, I would think, to see things so poetically and clearly, and not have many on your level to relate these things to. Maybe, pure conjecture here, this lead to the demise of many of her relationships with men and her seeming lack of relationships with women. She is certainly someone we all revere; how would that actually feel to be that person? Another side of this being, how would it feel to have one of your few outlets, i.e. song/poetry, given to the world at the risk of intense and flagrant criticism which we all know she has received many times over? No wonder her Van Gogh references....I would hazard that it would feel like riding the fence between health and insanity along with a pinch of desperate lonliness for good measure. Again, this is purely conjecture...Speaking of which...Did my post re: Hinton's "Both Sides Now" show up in this digest? Or was it just too uninteresting to comment upon...maybe you've all "been there, done that" :-). Anyway, Vanessa, I would like to hear more about your thought's on the Cat's Eye. Suzanne NP: Bela Fleck "Live Art" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:49:14 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Suspenders In a message dated 1/25/99 5:11:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, dgrowe@hotmail.com writes: > Wow! I'm going to have to check that out. But let's see -- Mud Slide > Slim and the Blue Horizon was released in 1971 -- if memory serves. So > here we find Joni "the dotty cat ingenue" (to paraphrase a recent > reviewer of TTT who labeled Joni a "Dotty old cat lady"). ;-) > > Don Rowe > Well, I dug out the ragged copy of Mud Slide Slim and the cats are indeed there, in pairs, alternating with crescent moons. Could be they were embroidered by the "Dotty old cat lady" herself. And yes, Don, MSS was released in 1971. Gina ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:58:29 -0800 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: omnisexual (njc) Don Rowe wrote: > Boy there's a loaded term! You know, if there was someone around with a > particularly filthy mind, they might be tempted to ask if that included > livestock and inflatable dolls ... that is, IF there was such a person > around. ;-) Indeed there is...Unfortunately McBabe's emeralded Irish ass is presently being occupied by fallout from a vehicular bombing...luckily the intended target exited the vehicle seconds before it blew and is physically if not emotionally intact...However; the blast blew out the windows in the bank She shoulda parked the car inside };~D Notes From a Love Junkie Susan L.A. Honey McBabe-"...As human hearts and ozone shatters Galactic Juries intervene..."-Jo..ooops...I mean Ferron...I get the two confused sometimes ;~) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:46:45 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: omnisexual (njc) > >Did Sarah also refer to herself as omnisexual? I thought it was Sophie > >B. Hawkins who used this term.Evian > > > Boy there's a loaded term! You know, if there was someone around with a > particularly filthy mind, they might be tempted to ask if that included > livestock and inflatable dolls ... that is, IF there was such a person > around. ;-) > > Don Rowe Omni- a combining form meaning "all". omnisexual.... I think you may be right! Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:37:20 EST From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Re: Wet Yourselves In a message dated 1/24/99 5:07:00 PM, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk wrote: <> the book's much better. alice hoffman's a good writer. i saw this flick in september or sometime around then. my all time favorite movie of the year is "Shakespeare in Love" followed by "The Opposite of Sex". Christina Ricci is THE coolest. - -mariana Np: kim deal rules! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:40:09 EST From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Pink triangles & Jewish stars (NJC) at my school on National Coming Out day, FLAG (it's a club: friends of lesbians and gays) handed out pink felt triangles and played the Indigo Girls at lunchtime. it was a really nice celebration. of course, there are the homophobics around but i think it was really cool all the same. - -mariana np: koo koo for kim and kelley ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:50:22 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Re: Pink triangles & Jewish stars (NJC) Damn! This has got to be a public school, right? Mark NP-Dave Matthews/Tim Reynolds-Minarets At 8:40 PM -0500 1/25/99, Marilune@aol.com wrote: > at my school on National Coming Out day, FLAG (it's a club: friends of > lesbians and gays) handed out pink felt triangles and played the Indigo Girls > at lunchtime. it was a really nice celebration. of course, there are the > homophobics around but i think it was really cool all the same. ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:15:24 +0800 (PST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: NJC - Lisa Kudrow > > the book's much better. alice hoffman's a good writer. i saw this flick in > september or sometime around then. my all time favorite movie of the year is > "Shakespeare in Love" followed by "The Opposite of Sex". Christina Ricci is > THE coolest. > Hi Mariana! I too loved THE OPPOSITE OF SEX but because mainly of the chameleonlike Lisa Kudrow. Seeing her in "Friends" and in ROMY AND MICHELLE'S HIGHSCHOOL REUNION, one would think she is ditzy in life. Seeing her do a 180-degree turn in THE OPPOSITE OF SEX makes one forget she ever played a ditz. That effective. I know she may have an outside chance for being nominated in the Oscars, but it would be be great to see her nominated! Christina Ricci by the way is also very good. Fave films: ONE TRUE THING, GODS AND MONSTERS and ELIZABETH.. Joseph ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:18:21 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Fw: Henry's Gallery News Hey you hippies out there - isn't this timely? Heehee ;-) Kakki From the Heny Diltz list: >Henry's Gallery Feedback - http://www.powernet.net/~peterb > >This message is for the list members of Henry's Gallery. We have just >added some new photographs from my archive. Some are from Woodstock 1969 >which celebrates it's 30th anniversary this year. Also, thirty years ago I >shot the cover photograph for the Crosby, Stills and Nash >debut album and the Doors Morrison Hotel. It really seems like yesterday. >I am extending a special offer to list members who order any photograph or >CD ROM from my site. Ten-percent off any order. Just type "list" after >your last name on the order form and you will receive the discount. An >update on my Woodstock recollections page. I plan to add more of the >artists who played there and would like your feedback on who I should >feature. Please let me know from the following artists, Jimi Hendrix, >Janis Joplin, The Who, Jefferson Airplane, Grace Slick, Creedence >Clearwater Revival, Johnny Winter, Joan Baez, Robbie Robertson, Crosby >Stills & Nash or other.... >NEWS FLASH...CSN&Y are going into the studio to make a new album...more >details later. All for now and all the best to each of you. Henry and >all the folks at Henry's Gallery. > > >______________________________________________________________________ >To unsubscribe, write to peterb-unsubscribe@listbot.com >Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com/ > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:34:57 EST From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: omnisexual (njc) In a message dated 1/25/99 7:36:51 PM Central Standard Time, artwear@ncweb.com writes: << Omni- a combining form meaning "all". omnisexual.... I think you may be right! >> Or if you're seeing a show at the Omni in Atlanta and you're so emotionally moved by the show in question that you spontaneously have some sexual experience you could be called an "Omnisexual" :^D Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:13:59 -0500 From: "Dr. Martin van Thomas-Paupertin" Subject: Re: omnisexual (njc) Whats with all this explicit debate all of a sudden? :) Martin - -----Original Message----- From: RMuRocks@aol.com To: artwear@ncweb.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Date: January 25, 1999 10:51 PM Subject: Re: omnisexual (njc) >In a message dated 1/25/99 7:36:51 PM Central Standard Time, artwear@ncweb.com >writes: > ><< Omni- a combining form meaning "all". omnisexual.... I think you may be > right! >> > >Or if you're seeing a show at the Omni in Atlanta and you're so emotionally >moved by the show in question that you spontaneously have some sexual >experience you could be called an "Omnisexual" :^D > >Bob ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #43 ************************* There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to info-jonifest1999@jmdl.com for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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