From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest)
To: joni-digest@smoe.org
Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #43
Reply-To: joni@smoe.org
Sender: les@jmdl.com
Errors-To: les@jmdl.com
Precedence: bulk
JMDL Digest Tuesday, January 26 1999 Volume 04 : Number 043
The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes
by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery
username: jimdle password: siquomb
-------
The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at
http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio,
original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more.
-------
The JMDL website can be found at and contains
interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more.
==========
TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
--------
Murray McLauchlan bio ["Deb Messling" ]
Atwood and Mitchell [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ]
Beatles [Brian Gross ]
Meaningless triangles and other queer stuff (NJC) [Michael Yarbrough ]
Re[2]: another perspective on impeachment (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.c]
Re: omnisexual (njc) ["Don Rowe" ]
Re: the man hater's club (SJC) [David Wright ]
Christine McVie on Joni in the '70s ["Don Rowe" ]
movie request (total NJC) [evian ]
Fwd: Suspenders [Ginamu@aol.com]
Re: Fwd: Suspenders ["Don Rowe" ]
Re: A Bill Gates joke for you [Mark Domyancich ]
Happy Australia Day! (NJC) ["Don Rowe" ]
Please Forward To Sherrie Good(NJC) [Bounced Message ]
Gotta go [Bounced Message ]
Time To Say Goodbye (NJC) [Bounced Message ]
fags and hags - NJC [Bounced Message ]
Re: Atwood and Mitchell [The Humphreys ]
Re: Suspenders [Ginamu@aol.com]
Re: omnisexual (njc) [Susan Chaloner ]
Re: omnisexual (njc) ["M & C Urbanski" ]
Re: Wet Yourselves [Marilune@aol.com]
Re: Re: Pink triangles & Jewish stars (NJC) [Marilune@aol.com]
Re: Re: Pink triangles & Jewish stars (NJC) [Mark Domyancich ]
Fw: Henry's Gallery News ["Kakki" ]
Re: omnisexual (njc) [RMuRocks@aol.com]
Re: omnisexual (njc) ["Dr. Martin van Thomas-Paupertin"
Subject: Murray McLauchlan bio
Canadian songwriter Murray McLauchlan has written an autobiography
that includes discussion of his "crush on Joni Mitchell, " among
other things. Unfortunately, I forget the name of the book.
MM is probably most well known in the States for "Child's Song,"
which was recorded by Tom Rush.
Deb Messling
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 02:19:33 +1100
From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson
Subject: Atwood and Mitchell
I just finished reading Margaret Atwood's "Cat's Eye" (around 1/2 hour
ago) and during the novel it struck me that perhaps her character Elaine
is in may ways similar to Joni?
What do I mean? I'm not particularly sure yet as the novel is still raw
and floating around my head but what struck me was the attitude of
Elaine in regards to men and women. She regards women as alien and
intimidating whilst she finds she's more comfortable with men and being
one of the boys... she understands their silences. I would quote if I
was thinking clearer but it's slipping away too quickly.
Perhaps rather than Joni being a 'woman' hater she doesn't identify or
understand them as she does men? The manipulative games that girls' can
play, the mind games... maybe it's the subtle treachery she rejects.
The bitchiness of school and trying to fit in? I remember being reviled
at school because I adored Annie Lennox and not Cold Chisel (an
Australian band) who were considered the bee's knees at school. The
malicious mocking that girl's can do so well... I admit I've done it.
If it was not so late and I retained information better I would explain
more. I'm just thinking of the Roy Roger's stories that Joni tells on
one of the tape trees. Maybe someone else could take this up and
explain it for me? :-)
I just found the book remarkable and so heart wrenching.
Vanessa
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:56:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Gross
Subject: Beatles
Good morning, all.
While driving yesterday, listening to Joni's Top 12 from 1983 (Tape Tree#5),
she calls the Beatles as the Messiahs of the 60's.
So Marsha, I guess that means that you and I should prepare to be drawn and
quartered, huh?
Brian
np: NPR discussion of sex
===
"No paper thin walls
No folks above
No one else can hear the crazy cries of love"
yeah, right
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:59:35 -0500
From: Michael Yarbrough
Subject: Meaningless triangles and other queer stuff (NJC)
Eric Taylor wrote:
<<>>
I hate this phrase, too. It's proof that minority sexual orientation
isn't enough to help some men transcend their misogyny.
But, if Grace Slick likes to use the word to describe herself, more
power to her...
<<>>
First, I don't think the word "queer" is politically correct. A number
of people (myself included) may identify as queer, but none of
these people (to my knowledge) demand that other people identify
as such.
Why do I use this word? Well, years of queer theory can't explain
it as well as one child's saying: "Sticks and stones may break my
bones but names can never hurt me."
That's the short answer. There are a couple of other reasons, chief
among which is that the community of which I like to feel a part
includes not only gay men but lesbians, bisexuals, transgendered
people and our straight allies. "Queer" to me is an effective and
inclusive shorthand for this community.
Alan wrote:
<<>>
Well I, for one, don't see my sexual orientation as trivial or
meaningless. I was never given that option. It's too late to go
back, too. My experiences have been shaped to a large degree
by a society that refuses to let me forget how different I am.
While I respect and believe in efforts to move beyond that stage,
we cannot do it by pretending the stage never existed in the
first place.
This is another reason I like the word queer. It emphasizes
difference, but in a powerful way. I happen to think that the world
could benefit from a little transformative difference, and queers
are among the wide array of people who can bring it about.
Patrick wrote:
<<>>
Absolutely, and it's these kids who will bring about a new vision
of community, not "straight-acting and -appearing" assimilationists.
- --Michael
NP: Deana Carter, _Did I Shave My Legs for This?_
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:17:11 +0000
From: catman
Subject: Re: Meaningless triangles and other queer stuff (NJC)
Michael Yarborough wrote:
> Absolutely, and it's these kids who will bring about a new vision
> of community, not "straight-acting and -appearing" assimilationists.
whilst I can see the objection when such a term is used in personal ads,
one needs to know that the majority of gay men are indeed str8 acting and
appearing. Why should they camp it up just to fit in with the new look and
behaviour? This attitude can be just as offensive and cause pain. A couple
of years back, I and sevral other men, worked at an HIV?Aids centre.
Because none of us fit the modern picture of gay men we were ostracised
repepatedly and eventually forced to leave by the 'gay fascists'. Why?
because we didn't confirm with multiple body piercings, hip cltothes and
shaved heads! The fact that I lived and loved with only 1 man and had done
for 16 yrs(at that time) was also frowned upon. When I said I did NOT
practise safe sex thay got truly offensive and uptight. Phil, a man in his
50's, was the first to blow his top.Now I don't consider myself
particulalry st8 acting or anything but my partner John certainly is. Not
even I would have know he was gay. However, we are the way we are
- -ourselves. I have spent my whole life fighting to be myself, as has John,
and I will NOT now succumb to the new gay fascism.
BTW Michael, these thought were what came up. I am jot accusing you of
being as I describe!
bw
colin
>
>
> --Michael
>
> NP: Deana Carter, _Did I Shave My Legs for This?_
- --
CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST
http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html
TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS
http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:39:11 -0500
From: Michael Yarbrough
Subject: RE: Meaningless triangles and other queer stuff (NJC)
Colin wrote:
<<>>
This is not at all what I mean. I do not favor either self-conscious
transgression or self-conscious assimilation. I favor self-honest
expression. While I agree there are some queerfolk who assume
a certain identity not because it's theirs but because it seems
hip, cool, or (goddess forbid) politically correct, it's far more
common that queerfolk adopt mainstream identities out of fear,
internalized homophobia or (goddess forbid) necessity.
Though I believe in the word queer as an identity that ties me
to a community, I do not believe in a concept of queer-acting
and -appearing. Likewise, I do not believe in a concept of
straight-acting and -appearing. It is misguided and homophobic.
Those who've met me might understand what I mean a little
better. All those radical thoughts reside in a rather mainstream-
appearing (though certainly not masculine!) facade. :-) My
problem is always that I look like the preppy fags but think like
the Queer Nationalists. Oh well. There are worse dilemmas.
:-)
- --Michael
NP: Led Zeppelin, _Physical Graffiti_ (not really but since I
can't post from home anymore I have to fit in the albums I
listened to this weekend. :-) )
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:11:31 -0500
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Chris Duarte (NJC)
As mentioned previously, I went to see Chris Duarte Friday night. It
was a great show, really a throwback to the 70's concept of "Power
Trio" as there was just him, bass, and drums. He was very animated, he
had to keep re-fixing his ponytail because he was jumping up and down,
shaking his head, etc. He also had to change out guitars pretty much
after each song as he was just banging the hell out it with every
number. They played for 2 1/2 hours with no break, his style was
similar to Stevie Ray & Jimi, but I think the closest comparison would
be David Gilmour from Pink Floyd. His solos were very atmospheric and
he used a lot of effects, combined with his dry wispy vocal it was
very Floyd-ish indeed, especially his cover of "The Thrill Is Gone"
(if you can believe that!)
If you like good LOUD rockin' guitar, he's definitely worth a checkout
when he comes to your town...
Bob
NP: Neil Young, "Unknown Legend"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:53:19 EST
From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
Subject: A Bill Gates joke for you
s many people have probably heard by now,Bill Gates built a new home, a VERY
large home, 35 garages, several buildings and so on. However, the problems
he's had with the house are much less known. The following is an excerpt from
a conversation Bill had with his new home contractors:
Bill: There are a few issues we need to discuss
Contractor: Ah, you have our basic support option. Calls are free for the
first 90 days and a $75 call thereafter. Okay?
Bill: Uh, yeah. The first issue is the living room.
We think it's a little smaller than we anticipated.
Contractor: Yeah, some compromises were made to have it out by the release
date.
Bill: We won't be able to fit all our furniture in there.
Contractor: Well, you have two options. You can purchase a new, larger living
room. Or you can use a stacker.
Bill: Stacker?
Contractor: Yeah, it allows you to fit twice as much furniture into the living
room. By stacking it, of course, you put the entertainment center on the
couch, the chairs on the table, etc. You leave an empty spot, so that when you
want to use some furniture, you can unstack what you need and put it back when
you're done.
Bill: Uh, I dunno... Issue two. The second issue is the light fixtures. The
light bulbs we brought with us from our old house don't fit. The threads run
the wrong way.
Contractor: Oh, that's a feature! The bulbs you have aren't plug and play.
You'll have to upgrade to new bulbs.
Bill: And the electrical outlets? The holes are round instead of rectangular.
How do I fix that?
Contractor: That's another feature designed with the customer in mind. Just
uninstall and reinstall the electrical system.
Bill: You're kidding!?!
Contractor: Nope, it's the only way.
Bill: (Sighing) Well, I have one last problem. Sometimes when I have guests,
someone will flush the toilet and it won't stop. The water pressure drops so
low that the showers don't work.
Contractor: That's a resource leakage problem.
One fixture is failing to terminate and is hogging
the resource, preventing other fixtures from accessing.
Bill: And how do I fix that?
Contractor: Well, after each flush, you all need to exit the house, turn off
the water at the street, turn it back on, re-enter the house. Then you can get
back to work.
Bill: That's the last straw! What kind of product are you selling me?
Contractor: Hey, if you don't like it, nobody made you buy it.
Bill: And when will it be fixed?
Contractor: Oh, in the next house, which we'll be
ready to release next year. Actually it was due out this year, but we've had
some delays...
(Sound familiar?)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:59:31 EST
From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
Subject: another perspective on impeachment (NJC)
My sister sent this to me and I want to share it with all of you:
"He who publicly shames his neighbor is as though he shed blood." Talmud Baba
Mezia 58b
Americans have been discussing the moral issues of the Starr Report in terms
of the values of Christianity. From the perspective of Judaism, however, the
terms of the discussion change. Unfortunately, even very few Jews are aware
that Judaism teaches a different set of moral principles.
According to classical Jewish law, President Clinton did not
commit adultery; adultery is defined as a married man having intercourse with
a married woman, and Monica Lewinsky is single. At worst, President Clinton is
guilty of the common sin of onanism, a sin that probably afflicts the
consciences of most Jewish men at one time or another.
While most of our moral debate focuses on the actions of
President Clinton, the worst sin from the perspective of
Jewish law is the public humiliation of President Clinton,
undertaken by Kenneth W. Starr with the cooperation of the
House Judiciary Committee. According to the Talmud, humiliating a human being
in public is tantamount to murder, and, like murder, is a sin that can never
be forgiven. Repentance is not possible for Mr. Starr, because it must be
preceded by reparation. Neither murder nor the destruction of a person's
reputation can ever be restored, so the sinner can never receive forgiveness.
Seen in Talmudic perspective, the Starr Report, with its
salacious and often irrelevant sexual details from Monica
Lewinsky's testimony, constitutes assassination. For the
members of the U.S. Congress to make public a Report that
humiliates the President, his wife, and his daughter makes
them partners in this assassination.
>From the perspective of Jewish history, we have to ask how
Jews can condemn President Clinton's behavior as immoral, when we exalt King
David? Clearly, David's affair with Batsheva was far more insidious - David
had Batsheva's husband, Uriah, murdered. While David was condemned and
punished, he was never thrown off the throne of Israel. On the contrary, he is
exalted in our Jewish memory as the unifier of Israel, the builder of
Jerusalem, the author of our psalms, the ancestor of the messiah. His wicked
deed of murder was placed in perspective and the entirety of his life was
judged, without condemning him on the basis of one sin, as outrageous as it
was. If President Clinton should be asked to resign his office, then King
David ought to be wiped from our memory.
Also troubling is the rush by some Jewish leaders, such as
Senator Joseph Lieberman and Rabbi Ismar Schorsch, to
condemn President Clinton, when they uttered not a peep
concerning Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu's admitted
confession to adultery. When was Netanyahu ever condemned as unfit to hold
office because of his affairs?
Jews like to say that President Clinton has been one of the
best friends Israel and the Jewish people have had in the
presidency; what kind of integrity do we have, if we abandon
our friend when powerful people are trying to assassinate him?
Finally, certain members of Congress, including Representative Gephardt, have
condemned President Clinton's efforts at self-defense as legal "hair-
splitting," as if that were beneath contempt. The term itself derives from
age-old Christian polemics that Judaism is a legalistic system that fails to
understand religious values of love and
charity. Yet unlike Christianity, Judaism rests on a system
of law that demands and exalts hair-splitting, due process,
and minute precision in its judicial decision-making.
Just as we expect minute precision from our physicians and
scientists, why not expect it from our religions? There is
no shame in hair-splitting, despite the mockery and contempt in which it has
been held for centuries by Christians. Exactitude is the most important
feature of Jewish law, and without it there can be no justice, and without
justice there can be no viable society.
This country's population contains a majority of Christians,
but the often very different values and principles of other
citizens - among them, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists -
must also be heard. Christianity is but one of many systems
of religious values, not the only one.
Prof. Susannah Heschel
Department of Religion
Dartmouth College
6036 Thornton Hall
Hanover, NH 03755-3592
(603) 646-2386
Fax: (603) 646-1699
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:40:48 +0000
From: catman
Subject: Re: Meaningless triangles and other queer stuff (NJC)
Michael-I knew you meant better hence my last line about those just being
thoughts of mine triggered by what you wrote-not as an attack on your
position!
bw
colin
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:40:40 +0000
From: catman
Subject: Re: another perspective on impeachment (NJC)
Thanks Paul. very interesting. I didn't know that about the Jewish faith. IMO the
lack of forgiveness tho is not something to be admired. However, it is at least
honest and doesn't display the hypocrisy seen in the xtian faith, where they
cannot seem to make up their mind if it is the new testament or the Old that they
follow. Horses for courses it would appear.
As for Clinton - it seems here that most people look upon Starr in disgust. the
whole thing seems to be a witch hunt by the Right-get Clinton by whatever means
available and they have done themselves a great deal of damage. people here
sympathise with Clinton. As do I. That isn't to say i think he hasn't done
something wrong-who hasn't-but that it is all blown out of proportion. It is also
hypocritical as republicans have done just the same-had affairs. I particulrly
liked Larry Flints advertisement for anyone who had an affair with a republican.
What people like Star forget is that they come across as the worst kind of
sinner-self righteous, judgemental, and full of pride. @many will call me Lord'
Jesus said,' but I will not hear them'. IMO that applies to Star and those of the
fundie persuasion.
As Clinton is only the 2nd Pres to be impeached, what the hell happened with
regards Nixon and Reagan?
bw
colin
ps: forgiveness is the hardest thing to achieve but still one worth working
towards or at least being willing to. I think it comes on it's own-cannot be made
to happen-otherwise on is in danger of 'cheap forgiveness' where it is merely an
intellectual decision and a way to avoid crushing pain. Much easier to say'I
forgive' when one hasn't felt the injury.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:52:35 -0600
From: evian
Subject: omnisexual (njc)
> I really admired Sarah McLachlan when she refused to let people label
> her; I think she called herself "omni sexual,"
>
Did Sarah also refer to herself as omnisexual? I thought it was Sophie
B. Hawkins who used this term.Evian
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:59:27 -0500
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re[2]: another perspective on impeachment (NJC)
Colin asks:
<>
Nixon resigned before he could be impeached, and Cowboy Ronnie never received
blame for anything because he had "no recollection". Of course, since he had
Alzheimer's, he *might not* have been lying...
Bob
NP: N. Young, "Eldorado"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:05:14 PST
From: "Don Rowe"
Subject: Re: omnisexual (njc)
>Did Sarah also refer to herself as omnisexual? I thought it was Sophie
>B. Hawkins who used this term.Evian
>
Boy there's a loaded term! You know, if there was someone around with a
particularly filthy mind, they might be tempted to ask if that included
livestock and inflatable dolls ... that is, IF there was such a person
around. ;-)
Don Rowe
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:10:50 -0500 (EST)
From: David Wright
Subject: Re: the man hater's club (SJC)
P. Henry writes:
>
> ...but it is sheer grandiosity
> to think that the knowing in any way elevates the perceiver to any
> degree of creativity or brings the artist down to anywhere near their
> level, yet that is the feeling I get from many of these posters...
>
> I, for one, do not feel I am in any place to be able to discern what
> makes Joni tick for that would require me to walk a mile in her shoes
> and that is something these humble feet could never do because she is a
> true artist (perhaps the greatest of this century) and there is no way I
> could begin to fathom what her life experience is...
Well, as an aside, I guess I sure have a higher opinion of the
role of the perceiver in art than P. Henry does....I don't think they need
any elevating. (Except in the public mind.) I think they perform a
necessary function in art, and there CAN be creativity involved in
perception.
Anyway...I don't know whether *anyone*, including "true artists,"
can fully fathom what anyone else's life experience is. There's an element
of mystery and rarity in everyone's life, equally, that is not more easily
penetrated by artists (as P. Henry seems to imply) than by anyone else.
(One of my favorite Flannery O'Connor lines: "It's all kinds of them just
like it's all kinds of us.") In a sense I guess I'm agreeing with P. Henry
but for very different reasons.
I read an interesting article not long ago about the myth of the
"lonely artist" (i.e., the Van Gogh/Beethoven archetype), and why it's
basically anachronistic, elitist, and damaging to people who create art
- -- "artist" is a loaded word -- in today's society.
Take care,
- --David
P.S. I also once read an article which called Grace Slick "the only
man-hating songwriter who is also a misogynist." (Technically, the male
counterpart of misogyny, if I remember correctly, is "misandry," BTW.)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:13:31 PST
From: "Don Rowe"
Subject: Christine McVie on Joni in the '70s
A friend of mine on the Fleetwood Mac list sent this, and I thought I'd
pass it on ...
"I don't struggle over my songs. I write them quickly and I've never
written a lot. I write what is required of me. For me, people like Joni
Mitchell are making too much of a statement. I don't really write about
myself, which puts me in a safe little cocoon... I'm a pretty basic love
song writer". -- Christine McVie, 1976
Now let's not pillory sweet Christine just yet. I think she's being
very honest, and in an odd left-handed sort of way, complimenting Joni
on her skill. And look at that date! Talk about the "statement" that's
fixin' to come out ... gotta love this in hindsight!
Don Rowe
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:12:22 -0600
From: evian
Subject: movie request (total NJC)
Hi Listers,
I have a kinda sorta big favor to ask some nice American with
cable. Tomorrow on AMC, at 4:30 Eastern Time, there is this cheesy old
movie called HOMICIDAL on. Anyway, I have been searching for this movie
since I was a teenager, but it is not on video. Anyway, I watched this
movie when I was a kid with my sister and her husband, and even though
it is probably the stupidest thing ever, we were completely terrified.
Well, I have been trying for years to track it down so that I could give
it as a gift to my sister, but everyone I have contacted said "we don't
have it under license this year" or something. Well, I went searching a
while back on the AMC web site and found out that they show the movie
every once in a while. I actually arranged for a friend in Nashville to
tape it, and she did... but then her husband taped over it, and she was
too scared to tell me for months. Well, I see that it is on again
tomorrow, and I really would like to get it taped for my sister. She
keeps asking me when I am getting the tape from my friend in Nashville,
but I haven't had the heart to tell her that it got erased. Her husband
passed away last year, and I think that she would like to see it, just
to reminisce about the time we all watched it when she was a newlywed,
because, long story I won't bore you with, it was a memorable evening.
The movie is just a cheesy PSYCHO rip-off, but still, I would do
anything to get my hands on it. I will pay whoever for the tape,
shipping, and give my right eye for this movie, so if anyone has AMC and
would tape it, please let me know.
Sorry for using the list for this, but I am desparate!
Evian
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:47:24 EST
From: Ginamu@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Suspenders
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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In a message dated 1/25/99 4:58:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, lreason@unog.ch
writes:
> I get the jmdl but am blocked (at work) from posting, so have to send
> individual e:mails.
>
> I HAD to write to tell you (I don't remember how I know this) that the
> suspenders James so proudly DISPLAYS on Mud Slide Slim were
> needlepointed by Joni. Look closely - I believe (if memory serves)
> you'll see cats...
>
> Enjoy the list.
>
> Lori Reason
> reason@un.org
>
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I get the jmdl but am blocked (at work) from posting, so have to send=
individual e:mails.
I HAD to write to tell you (I don't remember how I know this) that th=
e
suspenders James so proudly DISPLAYS on Mud Slide Slim were
needlepointed by Joni. Look closely - I believe (if memory serves)
you'll see cats...
Enjoy the list.
Lori Reason
reason@un.org
- --part0_917300845_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:09:42 PST
From: "Don Rowe"
Subject: Re: Fwd: Suspenders
Gina forwards this interesting bit of trivia ...
>the suspenders James so proudly DISPLAYS on Mud Slide Slim were
>needlepointed by Joni. Look closely - I believe (if memory serves)
>you'll see cats...
Wow! I'm going to have to check that out. But let's see -- Mud Slide
Slim and the Blue Horizon was released in 1971 -- if memory serves. So
here we find Joni "the dotty cat ingenue" (to paraphrase a recent
reviewer of TTT who labeled Joni a "Dotty old cat lady"). ;-)
Don Rowe
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:41:00 -0600
From: Mark Domyancich
Subject: Re: A Bill Gates joke for you
> Contractor: Yeah, some compromises were made to have it out by the release
> date.
Which reminds me: Windows 2000 has been pushed back to 1901.
Mark
NP-Free Man In Paris
___________________________________
| Mark Domyancich |
| Harpua@revealed.net |
| http://home.revealed.net/Harpua |
| http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark |
|_________________________________|
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:44:27 PST
From: "Don Rowe"
Subject: Happy Australia Day! (NJC)
Just wanted to shock and amaze you that a Yank would even know about it!
Actually, it shows up on my annual Beatles calendar. So what
constitutes a typical Australia Day celebration? Whatever it is, have a
good one ...
Don Rowe
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:14:21 -0700
From: Bounced Message
Subject: Please Forward To Sherrie Good(NJC)
From: "Hejira"
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 03:45:44 -0000
Hi I am really sorry about this. Sherrie did respond last time but, me being
the fool I am lost it somewhere in the belly of my p.c.
SO. Sherrie could you send me your email address again so I can write you
back. Thanks and sorry to be a pain. All the best Kevin
HEJIRA28@CLASSIC.MSN.CON
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:15:32 -0700
From: Bounced Message
Subject: Gotta go
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:06:46 -0500
From: "John M. Lind"
Hey evrybody,
Just a note before I go(to paraphrase Mr. Nash).
Things are getting too busy with work and life in general here in my neck
of the woods so I'm going to be un.sub.scribing. If anybody wants to keep in
touch just send me your e-mail address. I'll keep an eye on the web pages
and hopefully be back(sooner or later).
John~
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:14:55 -0700
From: Bounced Message
Subject: Time To Say Goodbye (NJC)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:34:37 +0000
From: Jason Maloney
Well, it's never much fun to have to bid your farewells, but due to my
circumstances I will not be continuing to use the internet or
e-mail...which means I have to un.su.b from this wonderful list.
I've really enjoyed my time on the JMDL...there is no other listserv I
know of that is quite like it. Thank you for so many evocative and
insightful postings, and for the odd light relief too.
My best to you all,
Jason.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:13:51 -0700
From: Bounced Message
Subject: fags and hags - NJC
From: CarltonCT@aol.com
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 16:47:41 EST
Eric has got to be a great guy and an all around considerate person. That
whole question of names and labels we use is a sticky one, but I've heard
more than a few women describe themselves as "fag hags."
Women who hang with gay men fall into two categories: There are "women who
have gay friends." These tend to be women who are married or have boyfriends,
or who have largely successful histories in relationships with the opposite
sex. They happen to have some gay male friends.
A true "fag hag" is a woman who falls in love with gay men, over and over
again, even though there is never the slightest chance that her love object
could possibly return her affections. Often enough, these tend to be women
who love a lot of the same things that gay men are presumed to like - musical
comedy, opera, good cooking, shows like ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS, refined tastes
in furnishings. Some are possessed of a biting sense of humor, many are
considered "overweight" by modern, Western standards. These women just
aren't interested in straight guys -- some would conjecture they are playing
it safe by falling for what they know is unattainable. One friend, a shrink
no less, describes herself as "a gay man trapped in the body of a woman."
Some of these women even go so far as to get sex changes so they can be men
dating gay males.
Two funny novels dealing with the subject matter are FAG HAG by Robert Rodi,
and LOVE JUNKIE by Robert Plunkett. Plunkett's novel, in particular, is a
darkly humorous story about a bored Presbyterian housewife whose mundane life
is turned around when she meets and falls in love with a colorful interior
designer. Many "fag hags" seem perfectly accepting about their own
"orientation," and some leave it when they find a suitable straight guy.
As a teenager, it took me a long time to get used to the word "gay" in
describing myself. "Gay" seemed so whimsical and silly. "Homosexual" is a
mouthful, but seemed to me a scientific and rational choice, and has
"heterosexual" as its equal opposite. Sometime in the late Eighties, the
movement was on to call ourselves "Queer." Well, why not, though that has no
appeal for me. It took so long to get used to "gay. "
Anyway, it helps to march out all those negative words into the sunshine where
their open usage takes away from their power to hurt us. Gay people are very
often in the habit of referring to themselves as fags, queens, etc. Growing
up, when we hear those words muttered about or screamed at us, it can really
hurt. To be able to use those words casually and in a tongue-in-cheek way
about ourselves and others is a way of destroying those words' power to harm
us.
Clark
NP: Dave Matthew's, CRASH
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:18:50 -0500
From: The Humphreys
Subject: Re: Atwood and Mitchell
I read Cat's Eye about three years ago and also found it compelling,
disturbing, and quite layered. I don't remember the characters names
though. Who was Elaine?
I vascillate at times when trying to analyze Joni's varied statements on
women, men, life in general, etc. I sometimes think it comes from a
deep seated insecurity (which most everything these days can be blamed
on in some form or fashion), and at other times, the difficulty in
living in a world that doesn't meet your expectations because you (Joni)
are more intuitive, creative, and to the point than most. How
frustrating it would be, I would think, to see things so poetically and
clearly, and not have many on your level to relate these things to.
Maybe, pure conjecture here, this lead to the demise of many of her
relationships with men and her seeming lack of relationships with
women. She is certainly someone we all revere; how would that actually
feel to be that person? Another side of this being, how would it feel
to have one of your few outlets, i.e. song/poetry, given to the world at
the risk of intense and flagrant criticism which we all know she has
received many times over? No wonder her Van Gogh references....I would
hazard that it would feel like riding the fence between health and
insanity along with a pinch of desperate lonliness for good measure.
Again, this is purely conjecture...Speaking of which...Did my post re:
Hinton's "Both Sides Now" show up in this digest? Or was it just too
uninteresting to comment upon...maybe you've all "been there, done that"
:-).
Anyway, Vanessa, I would like to hear more about your thought's on the
Cat's Eye.
Suzanne
NP: Bela Fleck "Live Art"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:49:14 EST
From: Ginamu@aol.com
Subject: Re: Suspenders
In a message dated 1/25/99 5:11:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dgrowe@hotmail.com writes:
> Wow! I'm going to have to check that out. But let's see -- Mud Slide
> Slim and the Blue Horizon was released in 1971 -- if memory serves. So
> here we find Joni "the dotty cat ingenue" (to paraphrase a recent
> reviewer of TTT who labeled Joni a "Dotty old cat lady"). ;-)
>
> Don Rowe
>
Well, I dug out the ragged copy of Mud Slide Slim and the cats are indeed
there, in pairs, alternating with crescent moons. Could be they were
embroidered by the "Dotty old cat lady" herself. And yes, Don, MSS was
released in 1971.
Gina
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:58:29 -0800
From: Susan Chaloner
Subject: Re: omnisexual (njc)
Don Rowe wrote:
> Boy there's a loaded term! You know, if there was someone around with a
> particularly filthy mind, they might be tempted to ask if that included
> livestock and inflatable dolls ... that is, IF there was such a person
> around. ;-)
Indeed there is...Unfortunately McBabe's emeralded Irish ass is
presently being occupied by fallout from a vehicular bombing...luckily
the intended target exited the vehicle seconds before it blew and is
physically if not emotionally intact...However; the blast blew out the
windows in the bank She shoulda parked the car inside };~D
Notes From a Love Junkie
Susan L.A.
Honey McBabe-"...As human hearts and ozone shatters
Galactic Juries intervene..."-Jo..ooops...I mean Ferron...I get the two
confused sometimes ;~)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:46:45 -0500
From: "M & C Urbanski"
Subject: Re: omnisexual (njc)
> >Did Sarah also refer to herself as omnisexual? I thought it was Sophie
> >B. Hawkins who used this term.Evian
> >
> Boy there's a loaded term! You know, if there was someone around with a
> particularly filthy mind, they might be tempted to ask if that included
> livestock and inflatable dolls ... that is, IF there was such a person
> around. ;-)
>
> Don Rowe
Omni- a combining form meaning "all". omnisexual.... I think you may be
right!
Marilyn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:37:20 EST
From: Marilune@aol.com
Subject: Re: Wet Yourselves
In a message dated 1/24/99 5:07:00 PM, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk wrote:
<>
the book's much better. alice hoffman's a good writer. i saw this flick in
september or sometime around then. my all time favorite movie of the year is
"Shakespeare in Love" followed by "The Opposite of Sex". Christina Ricci is
THE coolest.
- -mariana
Np: kim deal rules!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:40:09 EST
From: Marilune@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Pink triangles & Jewish stars (NJC)
at my school on National Coming Out day, FLAG (it's a club: friends of
lesbians and gays) handed out pink felt triangles and played the Indigo Girls
at lunchtime. it was a really nice celebration. of course, there are the
homophobics around but i think it was really cool all the same.
- -mariana
np: koo koo for kim and kelley
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:50:22 -0600
From: Mark Domyancich
Subject: Re: Re: Pink triangles & Jewish stars (NJC)
Damn! This has got to be a public school, right?
Mark
NP-Dave Matthews/Tim Reynolds-Minarets
At 8:40 PM -0500 1/25/99, Marilune@aol.com wrote:
> at my school on National Coming Out day, FLAG (it's a club: friends of
> lesbians and gays) handed out pink felt triangles and played the Indigo Girls
> at lunchtime. it was a really nice celebration. of course, there are the
> homophobics around but i think it was really cool all the same.
___________________________________
| Mark Domyancich |
| Harpua@revealed.net |
| http://home.revealed.net/Harpua |
| http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark |
|_________________________________|
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:15:24 +0800 (PST)
From: Joseph Palis
Subject: NJC - Lisa Kudrow
>
> the book's much better. alice hoffman's a good writer. i saw this flick in
> september or sometime around then. my all time favorite movie of the year is
> "Shakespeare in Love" followed by "The Opposite of Sex". Christina Ricci is
> THE coolest.
>
Hi Mariana!
I too loved THE OPPOSITE OF SEX but because mainly of the chameleonlike
Lisa Kudrow. Seeing her in "Friends" and in ROMY AND MICHELLE'S HIGHSCHOOL
REUNION, one would think she is ditzy in life. Seeing her do a 180-degree
turn in THE OPPOSITE OF SEX makes one forget she ever played a ditz. That
effective. I know she may have an outside chance for being nominated in
the Oscars, but it would be be great to see her nominated! Christina Ricci
by the way is also very good.
Fave films: ONE TRUE THING, GODS AND MONSTERS and ELIZABETH..
Joseph
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:18:21 -0800
From: "Kakki"
Subject: Fw: Henry's Gallery News
Hey you hippies out there - isn't this timely? Heehee ;-)
Kakki
From the Heny Diltz list:
>Henry's Gallery Feedback - http://www.powernet.net/~peterb
>
>This message is for the list members of Henry's Gallery. We have just
>added some new photographs from my archive. Some are from Woodstock 1969
>which celebrates it's 30th anniversary this year. Also, thirty years ago I
>shot the cover photograph for the Crosby, Stills and Nash
>debut album and the Doors Morrison Hotel. It really seems like yesterday.
>I am extending a special offer to list members who order any photograph or
>CD ROM from my site. Ten-percent off any order. Just type "list" after
>your last name on the order form and you will receive the discount. An
>update on my Woodstock recollections page. I plan to add more of the
>artists who played there and would like your feedback on who I should
>feature. Please let me know from the following artists, Jimi Hendrix,
>Janis Joplin, The Who, Jefferson Airplane, Grace Slick, Creedence
>Clearwater Revival, Johnny Winter, Joan Baez, Robbie Robertson, Crosby
>Stills & Nash or other....
>NEWS FLASH...CSN&Y are going into the studio to make a new album...more
>details later. All for now and all the best to each of you. Henry and
>all the folks at Henry's Gallery.
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>To unsubscribe, write to peterb-unsubscribe@listbot.com
>Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com/
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:34:57 EST
From: RMuRocks@aol.com
Subject: Re: omnisexual (njc)
In a message dated 1/25/99 7:36:51 PM Central Standard Time, artwear@ncweb.com
writes:
<< Omni- a combining form meaning "all". omnisexual.... I think you may be
right! >>
Or if you're seeing a show at the Omni in Atlanta and you're so emotionally
moved by the show in question that you spontaneously have some sexual
experience you could be called an "Omnisexual" :^D
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:13:59 -0500
From: "Dr. Martin van Thomas-Paupertin"
Subject: Re: omnisexual (njc)
Whats with all this explicit debate all of a sudden? :)
Martin
- -----Original Message-----
From: RMuRocks@aol.com
To: artwear@ncweb.com
Cc: joni@smoe.org
Date: January 25, 1999 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: omnisexual (njc)
>In a message dated 1/25/99 7:36:51 PM Central Standard Time,
artwear@ncweb.com
>writes:
>
><< Omni- a combining form meaning "all". omnisexual.... I think you may be
> right! >>
>
>Or if you're seeing a show at the Omni in Atlanta and you're so emotionally
>moved by the show in question that you spontaneously have some sexual
>experience you could be called an "Omnisexual" :^D
>
>Bob
------------------------------
End of JMDL Digest V4 #43
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