From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #39 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, January 22 1999 Volume 04 : Number 039 The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Video Tape & Alanis M. [Gellerray@aol.com] Re:Coupla Clarifications........Beatles & Airplane...(NJC) ["Lance A. Mic] Re: Starship slip...(NJC) ["Lance A. Michel" ] Re: Most important American band? (NJC) ["Lance A. Michel" ] Re: Starship slip...(NJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Grace/Jeffersons (NJC) [kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)] Re[3]: Beatle Ballads (NJC) ["John M. Lind" ] Re: fred simon (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Re[6or7]: Grace/Jefferson Airplane(NJC) ["John M. Lind" ] Guinnevere, About Joni? [simon@icu.com] Re: Grace/Jefferson Airplane(NJC) ["P. Henry" ] Joni in Down Beat (3 times) ["Eric G. Postel" ] Re: Orange sunshine radio [Dreamzvill@aol.com] Synchronous cartoon (NJC) [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: Elliott Smith (NJC) [Dreamzvill@aol.com] Re[15?, 20?]: Grace/Jeffersons ["John M. Lind" ] Re: Most important American band? (NJC) [Dreamzvill@aol.com] Re: NJC: The lightbulb [Dreamzvill@aol.com] Why 'Song to a Seagull' was not on Elektra records [Guy Brown ] Re: Guinnevere, About Joni? [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Grace/Jefferson Airplane(NJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Re[15?, 20?]: Grace/Jeffersons/ Mamas and Papas [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Amelia Question [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Grace/Jeffersons (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Joni in new Q magazine [David Wright ] Re: advice on Michael Hedges (SJC) [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Amelia Question (Whew!) ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Amelia Question (JC.. finally) ["Scott Crane" ] Re: Amelia Question (JC.. finally) [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: NJC: [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Joni in Australia [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Grace/Jefferson Airplane(NJC) [RickieLee1@aol.com] Re: was amelia, now it's furry... [RickieLee1@aol.com] Re: was amelia, now it's furry... [Mark Domyancich ] Re: was amelia, now it's furry... [Scott Price ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 02:58:15 EST From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: Video Tape & Alanis M. Deb wrote this: >>I believe this goes back to an interview that appeared in Details magazine in 1996. The interviewer caught Joni on a particularly bad day, it seems, or maybe just decided to quote selectively to make Joni look particularly bad (i.e. whiny and arrogant and mean-spirited)>> Joni said this: But I'm a musical explorer and not just a pop songwriter or an occasional writer of a song or half a song, like these other women. Alanis Morissette writes words, someone else helps set it to music, and then she's kind of stylized into the part. To me, Sheryl Crow is a style invention, and I know some of her inventors. A lot of these women are made, they're not... And I, ray, have this little anecdote: I used to live in New York and my boyfriend is an editor; through him I knew the woman who signed joni to her book deal at Crown. Around the time that the Details article appeared I was at a dinner party where the woman--Karen is her name and I hope she doesn't mind i say that--and i were talking about joni, and her impressions of her since they'd been working together. It was interesting--brief, non-salacious, but interesting. At the time i was miserbly proofreading in a BIG BUSINESS consulting firm ( I have since left new york and am studying to be a history and english teacher at high school level--i know my writing style is anything but conventional or standardized but i can sorta rein it in when necessary) and, previous to the dinner party, I had written karen a letter saying I would do anything--you know sweep floors--to be involved in the project(s)--she very nicely wrote back saying no help was needed and that it was a bit of a chore to get joni focused anyway, though she meant it in the nicest way. (Later, just before its release she sent us and early copy of the collected lyrics and poems book; i immediately noticed the misprint in 'urge for going' and i couldn't help but think "shoulda taken me up on my offer"). Anyway, at this dinner party we were kinda hashing over the 'joni resurgence' (Billboard award, Grammies, et alia) and various issues surrounding, and i mentioned the Details article, saying that even i--a huge fan--was rather turned off by it, that it really left a bad taste in my mouth. And Karen said, "Joni was really pissed off by that article"--it was a dinner party in a restaurant at a crowded table and i felt i had said enough on the subject (didn't want to seem loco or too obsessed) and so we left it at that. It is nice to think that that isn't what joni meant or all that she said. It is nice to think at least that she doesn't feel the same way now (since the much reported incident of her smiling and applauding sheryl enthusiastically when she opened for...dylan--wasn't it?). Maybe it is what she thinks--if so it seems awfully ungenerous in any number of ways. (sometimes joni seems impossible to please on this subject--i remember another more recent article where she talks about there being these days too many people writing and singing their own songs, and how one of the glories of sinatra's era was that three people did the work--singer, melodist and lyric writer). And though one could argue that joni's point was her own greatness, I feel that her somewhat gratuitous trashing of the others misses some essential point--alanis, cheryl and god knows how many others write some great songs with (and sometimes without) another person, and have the good sense to work with another person when they know that is what they need to get the job done; we in turn reap the benefits of that, so you know, hey joan, let it be. But nobody knows what it's like to be joni--to have every new (female anyway) kid on the block compared to you and to have been blacklisted and kicked around--while being brave and brilliant--just as you are hitting your stride. So I try to stay out of the fray (for the most part). And I remember that Karen (the editor) said that joni was really pissed about the Details article--so presumably what she said was edited up or down or somehow quoted out of context. I like to think so, and i report what i did hear, from someone who was rather close to the source. regards, ray ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:28:08 -0800 From: "Lance A. Michel" Subject: Re:Coupla Clarifications........Beatles & Airplane...(NJC) He come grrrrrooooooovin' up slowly.......To calrify a few thangs: **(fergot who metioned this........but...) John sang Norweigan Wood.....Not Paul.......and ADITL is sung by both John & Paul........ [maybe it was meant as a joke......if so.......] **The Airplane does not tour anymore......haven't since a reunion tour in '89........Paul and Jack still tour as Starship Next Generation, w/Darby on vocals (and a few other folks)........and Mickey thomas tours under the name Mickey Thomas' Starship (but we won't even go there........;-) And just as a side note.......Jack also still tours with Jorma as Hot Tuna, and they are still amazing.......Jorma is truly one of the guitar Masters.......and Jack is no slouch either........;-) ...........and now he's gone like a cool breeze..........L8R As Always........peas & Dub............Lance - -- Lance A. Michel: - -There are as many shades to reality as there are windows unto the soul- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:38:52 -0800 From: "Lance A. Michel" Subject: Re: Starship slip...(NJC) Dave is correct........It is Diana singing with them these days..........I think the original post mentioned that the person saw, whatever incarnation they saw, just a coupla years ago, and indeed Diana would have been with them by that time, as Darby (as I stated) was with them in the early 90's.........god how time flies! Here a bit of trivia for y'all..........what was China's orignal name to be? And thanks again Dave for the further corrections.........Peas........Lance - -- Lance A. Michel: - -There are as many shades to reality as there are windows unto the soul- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 01:03:30 -0800 From: "Lance A. Michel" Subject: Re: Most important American band? (NJC) Howdy Bob, The Muscle Shoals cats were the bakcing bands for FAME records in Muscle Shoals Alabama; They backed such greats as Aretha, Wison Pickett, Etta Jmaes and more. Here is a list of a most of them (from various times, of course), there may have been more, but here's a buncha them: Norbert Putnam Chips Moman Jerry Carrigan Spooner Oldham Earl (Peanut) Montgomery Jimmy Johnson David Hood Roger Hawkins Barry Beckett Eddie Hinton Clayton Ivey Bob Wray Harvey Thompson Mickey Buckins Junior Lowe Aaron Varnell Jessee Boyce Ronnie Eades Charles Chalmers Andrew Love (also later part of the Stax band, ie. Memphis Horns) Roger Clark Duane Allman (need I say) Harrison Calloway Ralph Ezell Owen Hale Steve Nathan Travis Wammack Jerry Masters Fred Prouty Freeman Brown Walt Aldridge Chalmers Davis Tim Henson Tarp Tarrant Pete Carr Randy McCormick Ben Cauley Jr. Ken Bell Jerry Bridges Mac McAnally Ray Stevens Tommy Cogbil Stacey Goss Reggie Young Jerry Jemmott Cissy Houston Tom Roady Wayne Bridge Larry Byrom Lenny Leblanc Bowlegs Miller James Mitchell Floyd Newman Bobby Womack Jack Peck Marvell Thomas James Stroud Cornell McFadden Joe Arnold Eddie Struzick Timmy English Mark Gray Donna Rhodes Sandra Rhodes Randall Bramblett Bernard Brown Clarence Carter Earl Ford Rick Hall Emmit Greene Jasper Jackson Bob Patin Dennis Holt Jim Brown Jeff King Alison Prestwood Oscar Jackson Freddie Jones Willie King Charles Rose George Weaver Hal Williams Gary Baker Robert Byrne Paul Franklin Pig Robbins Bill Darnell Carl Jackson Mark O'Connor John Willis Rob Hajacos Terry McMillan Hershey Reeves Stan Thorn Jim Seales Marty Raybon Milton Sledge Vassar Clements Bill Hinds Johnny Sandlin Barry Billings Barbara Wyrick Laura Struzick Donna Hatcher Greg Pace Berry Oakley (Also of Allman Bros. fame) Cherry Sisters Duncan Cameron Dan Penn Charles Stratford Joe South Donnie Carpenter Sonny Garrish Cannonball Adderly (a Jazz monsta) Nat Adderly Joe Zawinual (Miles, Weather Report) Terry Thompson Marlon Greene Jeannie Greene Ava Aldridge Cindy Richardson Marie (Tomlinson) Lewey Tom Flora Danny Kirsch Chuck Godwin Tippy Armstrong James (Brown) Hooker John Harris Leo Leblanc Dale Quillen Suzy Storm Fred Newell Jimmy Evans Erik Ekstrand Ronald Hardy David Briggs Kenny Mims Joseph Armstrong Ernie Collins Kimberly Morrison-Cole Dennis Goode Will McFarlane George Soule Leon Sherrill Joe Hamilton Don Cartee Ronnie Oldham Eric Essix Little John Sean Ray Stacy Goss Andrew Lane Don Srygley John Willis Bill Cofield Donnie Fritts Joey Holder Darryl Holden Ben Jerkins Bernie Leadon Teddy Gentry - -----Now the MGs (with and without Booker T.), along with The Memphis Horns, were the back-up band for STAX records (later distributed by Atlantic and now owned by Fantasy Records) in Memphis, Tenn..........They also backed up Wilson Pickett, as well as Otis Redding, Rufus Thomas, etc............They consisted of: Booker T. Jones--Organ Isaac Hayes--Organist when Booker when back to college in the mid-60's Steve Cropper--Guitar Lewis Steinberg--1st. Bass player Donald "Duck" Dunn--2nd. Bass player Al Jackson, Jr.--Drums Memphis Horns: Andrew Love--Sax Wayne Jackson--Trumpet - --Hope I didn't leave anyone out; as they were a studio band various musicains floated in from session to session sometimes to lend a hand, or mouth, but this was the core of the group. - -----Hope all this info. helps...........Enjoy........Now if you wanna talk about the GodFather..........;-) As Always.......Peas & Dub...........Lance - -- Lance A. Michel: - -There are as many shades to reality as there are windows unto the soul- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:39:30 +1100 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Slamming (NJC) Hi everyone, Just felt somewhat sentimental as I sit here in this cacophony of thunder and lightening... I know as all Lists do, that we've had our ups and downs and those who felt they were treated rather poorly. I also know that we have an occasional 'private' e-mailer who can be cruel although all my mailing experience here has been wonderful. I think we're unbelievably blessed on this List... recently I posted to my husband's Discussion List and the response (only from one person) just deflated me. I have never been so brutally slammed or sworn at via e-mail before. Admittedly I swear, but receiving in print was just devastating and so aggressive. He tore me to shreds and with little mercy. Why? I really appreciate the courtesy, respect and honesty on this List so much more after that experience. My first Discussion experience a couple years ago was also nasty and admittedly put me off until I found this List. I just felt that we needed reminding how special this List really can be and the generosity and magnanimity of this List has really touched me... especially people like Gerald Mc, Jim L'Hommedieu, Julie Z. Webb, Colin, Helly, Bar bear, Robert Jordan and John Van Tiel and some others whom I can't think of at this point... (whom I've had dealings with or who've sent lovely private posts) So thank you all, Vanessa who does live in Victoria approx. 50 minutes from Melbourne at the foot of the Dandenong Ranges. (Gets pretty misty!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 05:57:38 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Starship slip...(NJC) In a message dated 1/22/99 3:41:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, nabalom@sirius.com writes: << Here a bit of trivia for y'all..........what was China's original name to be? >> I think it was reported that Grace wanted to call the child God. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:38:31 -0500 (EST) From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave) Subject: Re: Grace/Jeffersons (NJC) Kakki writes: >Darby left JS in early 1993 and then Signe >Anderson (the first female singer before >Grace) filled in until they found Diana. But >later, in 1994, Darby re-joined and began >substituting in at some of the >performances. I thought Darby still did >that occasionally based on some >information and recent photos I've seen, >but I may be hallucinating. I have not >heard Diana perform but have hear >Darby and she is also quite impressive. >(Wish I could have seen Signe perform - >heard that she also sat in with Hot Tuna >occasionally in the early '90s). You could be right. There is much subbing of one member for another in this act! I saw Signe with the JS in '93 and she was horrible. Her voice was an unbearable mixture of middle age and heavy smoking. Everytime she opened her mouth I, and those with me would cringe. I never heard of her sitting in with Hot Tuna and thank God for that! Darby, I've never seen or heard, but Diana has a very sweet voice and disposition and I've heard it said that she is the best yet since Grace. As for Grace Wing, she was originally married to Darby Slick of Great Society where she got her surname. She then married the drummer of JA, Spencer Dryden. She left Spencer for Paul Kantner. She then dumped Paul for a crew member. After that I lost track but I think she is currently single. gdave - ----------------------------------------------------------------- DaveBase @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/2349/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:22:15 -0500 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Re[3]: Beatle Ballads (NJC) >Terry, I don't think George was "underrated" as much as he was >"overshadowed", although I know he was constantly frustrated that his >compositions were never included at the same pace as John & Paul... I think George is very much under-rated as a Beatle. I love the Beatles and I think John and Paul wrote some of the most amazing songs I'll ever hear. However, not everything they wrote was "grade A 100% genius" if you will. They were human and wrote some stuff that was not as good as others, take "What's the News Mary Jane" for instance. I think that Harrison's songwriting contributions to the band were much more consistant in terms of quality. Probably due to the over abundance of songs from the others. You know, if your not expected to come up with 12 songs every 8-10 months you've got more time to refine what you've written. I often liken Joe Walsh's role in the Eagles to Harrison's in the Beatles. He was a much less prolific writer in the band but he was *by far* the best writer IMO. John~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:40:32 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: fred simon (NJC) Deb, Fred is a pianist, musician, writer who now resides in Chicago, I believe, and is very much a list member. We've never met, but I've enjoyed his posts, and some list members have gone to hear him perform. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:40:22 -0500 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Re[6or7]: Grace/Jefferson Airplane(NJC) Let's see here, As Kakki pointed out the singer that Susan C. is probably talking about was Darby Gould, not China Kantner. I recall reading in Relix that they've even done some gigs with Signe Andersen, the Airplane's original singer whom Grace replaced. The reason for the name change has to do with legalities I'm afraid. When Paul decide to revive the old spirit of Jefferson Airplane/Starship/Soapbox, whatever, a few years ago he originally called his band just "Jefferson Starship" but was threatend with legal action by Mickey Thomas and Craig Chacico(sp?) who had obtained legal rights to the name "Starship". Paul counterd by changing the name of *his* band to(I love this) "Paul Kantner's Jefferson Starship, The Next Generation" and there was nothing they could do about it. I've seen them twice since then. The first time I was even lucky enough to see them with Pappa John, before he died. and then again about a year and ahalf later at the Cat's Cradel in Chapel Hil, NC. It was my friend Char's birthday and she got Jack, Paul and even Marty to sign te book from the boxed set she brought along. I've been told getting Mart's autograph is quite a feat and not only did he sign it, but he also drew faces and word ballons in several of the picture throughout the book, very funny. John~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:51:35 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: NJC: The lightbulb Colin hilariously computed: <> Colin, this was pure genius! But you forgot the (1) who posts an answer to someone's lightbulb question without quoting from the original post so that the post makes *no* sense whatsoever...:~) Bob NP: XTC, "Desert Island" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:00:29 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Tonight's Tribute to Joni Mitchell (NYC contingent) Patrick, Betty doing Joni Mitchell. What a hoot. I hope you and all the NY'ers on the list will go and give us a report. Wish I could be there. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:57:30 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Most important American band? (NJC) Lance responds: <> Boy, Lance, you've got a helluva memory :~) And I thought *I* was good with music trivia!! Thanks for the details - Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:13:57 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[4]: Beatle Ballads (NJC) John writes about George "Hair-isson" <> True, John, and when he *did* have to come up with all the songs by himself he just wrote new lyrics to old sixties girl-group songs :~). Of course, it didn't bother me because it prompted "This Song" which featured some of the Monty Python guys on 'backing vocals'... <> And I would add the best "performer" as well - when I saw their 'Hotel California' tour in Greensboro, it was a total snoozer except for when Joe did his solo set and brought the only spontaneity to the gig. And of course, he's also given us those immortal lyrics, "Pick up the dog doo, hope that it's hard"... Bob NP: XTC "Garden of Earthly Delights" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:33:26 -0800 From: Mark-n-Travis Subject: Re: Starship slip...(NJC) IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 1/22/99 3:41:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, > nabalom@sirius.com writes: > > << Here a bit of trivia > for y'all..........what was China's original name to be? >> > > I think it was reported that Grace wanted to call the child God. > > Paul I It was reported that way but it was meant to be a joke. Grace said she told some nurse or some kind of employee in the hospital that they were naming the baby 'god' but that they would use a small 'g' to keep her from getting a swelled head. She said it mainly for the effect it had on the woman. Some how or another the story got to the press. But it was nothing more than an off the cuff joke told to shock the nurse & was never meant to be published or official. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:53:25 -0800 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Guinnevere, About Joni? CarltonCT@aol.com wrote ... >________________________________________________________________________ > > >I had always wondered if "Guenivere" was about Joni, especially since >it has seagull imagery. Acccording to the Hinton book, it is partially >about her - she is the woman referred to in the lines "Guenivere hath >golden hair - like yours, lady, like yours." The use of "hath" seems a >little silly these days. >________________________________________________________________________ Brian Hinton is correct on this point. however, be careful about accepting everything in his book as gospel. there's a lot of rumor, speculation, innuendo and other *facts* that are just plain wrong. the following is from an 'A Conversation With David Crosby' conducted by Wally Breese on 3-15-97 DC: Yes, it was very difficult for me. I'd sit there and struggle over one song, like "Guinevere" for a month, and she would have written 5 songs that week. WB: After you and Joni stopped being a couple, she moved in with Graham (Nash), and they wrote all those songs about their relationship like "Our House," "Willie," etc. It seemed as if you all were writing about and to each other. DC: You know, we did write a lot to each other back then. She was one of the three women I wrote "Guinevere" about. WB: I guess another was Christine Hinton? (Christine was David's lover who was tragically killed in an auto accident in 1969). DC: Uh-huh. WB: And who would the third one be? DC: Oh, someone that nobody knows. WB: Keeping that fact to yourself, David? DC: Yeah. the Complete Interview can be found on The Joni Mitchell Homepage, at URL: hope this helps. for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- they sin by their silence ...when they should have spoken out. A.Lincoln ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:14:07 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Grace/Jefferson Airplane(NJC) ok... since the JA/JS trivia ia flying, I'll jump in and ask... what, if anything, does anyone know/want to contribute about what I consider their greatest album, "Crown Of Creation"??? Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:16:17 -0500 From: "Eric G. Postel" Subject: Joni in Down Beat (3 times) As most of you probably know, Down Beat is perhaps the preeminent jazz magazine. I got my new issue about 2 days ago. Believe it or not, Joni is in it in three different places: 1. They reviewed TTT -- 3.5 stars out of 5 2. They reviewed Herbie Hancock's Gershwin album -- 4.5 stars and just went nuts over Joni's vocal -- abosolutely loved it 3. In article about jazz folks doing rock and vice versa, Joni is named as one of leaders in this I hadn't seen any mention of this on the list so I thought I'd pass it along. Have a nice weekend, Eric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:29:47 EST From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: Orange sunshine radio Michael- You mentioned a 'Net radio station the other day - Orange Sunshine? How do I find it? And why does my Real Audio player "lose" some of its presets after a while? (So frustrating!) Is there an all-Joni station out there somewhere? =) In a questioning mood.... Love and hugs, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:11:09 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Synchronous cartoon (NJC) In the fun spirit of recent discussions on the list, thought y'all might like to check out this cartoon I ran across: http://www.icemagazine.com/html/cartoon.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:35:57 EST From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: Elliott Smith (NJC) In a message dated 1/22/99 2:35:02 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Marilune@aol.com writes: << my parents are lame and won't let me go two nights. >> Mariana- I had to smile when I read this part! Thanks for the info on the show!!! :) Cheers, Susan C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:39:51 -0500 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Re[15?, 20?]: Grace/Jeffersons Kakki wrote: >Now I'm really baffled because I've read and heard this for years, >including an in-depth account from a Deadhead friend who also listed >songs Marty supposedly wrote about Grace! Was it rather, that Marty had >an unrequited crush on Grace only? Now, I'm curious - how did this >modern myth/misinformation get started? Probably because it's easier to say she shtuped *every* guy in the band than to keep track of the reality. It's jucier gossip wise too. According to Marty himself(he was probably kidding but you could hear in his voice that he doesn't exactly 'love' Grace) the only song he ever wrote about Grace was "Plastic Fantastic Lover" In interviews he seems to be pretty adamant, if not proud, that he was the only guy to not sleep with her. John~ NP "Turn it Up" Alan Parsons Project ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:23:05 EST From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: Most important American band? (NJC) Lance- Have I told you lately that I think your posts are *amazing*??? Cheers, Susan C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:39:51 EST From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: The lightbulb In a message dated 1/22/99 1:55:49 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << But you forgot the (1) who posts an answer to someone's lightbulb question without quoting from the original post so that the post makes *no* sense whatsoever...:~) >> I know you all may think I am a total computer-illiterate....but can you believe, I just learned how to do this? (Completely by accident, of course) Learning from the Trial & Error School of Computer Technology, Susan C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:18:05 -0800 From: Guy Brown Subject: Why 'Song to a Seagull' was not on Elektra records Sorry if this has been discussed before, I've been busy and bulk deleting many threads.... In the February 99 issue of Q there is the following item, quoted here in full: #14 in the series - In the bath when opportunity knocked - The company that rejected JM to spare their art department's feelings, In the latter half of 1967, young Canadian singer-songwriter JM was the hottest music business prospect in New York. Live reviews sang her praises, established performers like Tom Rush sang her songs and publishers courted her spark. Danny Fields of Elektra Records brought her to the company, hoping to snap her up before the competition. With its roster of intelligent and respected folk artists, Elektra was the obvious home for Mitchell. It looked like a marriage made in heaven, and the happy couple were about the exchange vows when the relationship floundered, not because of contracts, ideologies or musical differences, but because Joni could paint. Elektra's art department had forged a distinctive style for album covers which its head, William S. Harvey, was intent on preserving at all costs. In this case, the cost turned out to be the era's most talented female songwriter. According to Fields, Mitchell said, "I'd love to make an album for you, but I'd like to do my own album cover." At this point the company closed ranks with its art department. "They said, No way. Our art department does the covers, you write the songs, you sing the songs. That's as far as it goes." Indeed it was. Mitchell signed to Reprise and Elektra had to made do with Judy Collins, whose biggest hit was Both Sides Now - a cover of a JM song GUY ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:18:52 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[15?, 20?]: Grace/Jeffersons/ Mamas and Papas In a message dated 1/22/99 11:46:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, jml@amweaver.com writes: << Probably because it's easier to say she shtuped *every* guy in the band than to keep track of the reality. >> Being laid up in bed with the flu (violins, please), I've been forced to watch tv and have been following the VH1 bios on bands of the past. Anyone see the segment on The Mamas And The Papas? Woa, now there's a soap opera! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:43:27 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Why 'Song to a Seagull' was not on Elektra records Guy wrote: <> Guy, I can tell you this *hasn't* been mentioned, at least not lately - thanks for sharing it...who was it that wrote about "short-sighted businessmen"...:^) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:49:12 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Vocal Beauty At 11:00 PM 1/20/99 PST, Angela Takats wrote: >I can’t (never ever) get over how amazing joni’s voice is – >There are some parts of songs that are so beautiful I play them over and >over and over and can’t belive she can do "that" with her vocal >chords….whether it be her voice mimicking the sound of a particular >instrument or sliding up and down a scale – Oh so many examples come to mind but I'll focus on one song: "Edith and the Kingpin." The way Joni integrates the background vocals with the horns and the guitar is intoxicating. I find that I have to listen very intently in order to pick out her backing vocal tracks from the instruments, and for a few magic moments it's nearly impossible to distinguish the two. The way she slides her voice in and out of this perfect imitation of the orchestra really challenges the listener. This is not simply one layer of sound (vocal) on top of another (instrumental) but a homogeneous blending of what are usually two distinct sonics into a beautifully flowing arrangement. The effect adds drama and sophistication to this song, always one of my faves from HOSL. Finally, it can be no accident that during the song's last note Joni drifts off into this same soaring space. As she sustains that last note of "you know they dare not look away..." a touch of echo is added just before she glides into that timbre which could be mistaken for a trumpet, an electric guitar, or some other instrument of your choice. It's pure genius! Scott ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:56:55 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Guinnevere, About Joni? In a message dated 1/22/99 9:57:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, simon@icu.com writes: << >I had always wondered if "Guenivere" was about Joni, especially since >it has seagull imagery. According to the Hinton book, it is partially >about her - she is the woman referred to in the lines "Guenivere hath >golden hair - like yours, lady, like yours." >> Guinnevere may have had golden hair, but she also had GREEN eyes, and Joni's are definitely blue. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:00:26 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Grace/Jefferson Airplane(NJC) In a message dated 1/22/99 10:01:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, badwolff@angelfire.com writes: << what, if anything, does anyone know/want to contribute about what I consider their greatest album, "Crown Of Creation"??? >> Well, I know that Paul Kantner "borrowed" the lyrics for the title song from a sci-fi novella, because I came across them while reading the same novella in a Science Fiction Hall of Fame collection. I don't recall which story it is now because it was about 1973 when I read it, but I underlined them. One of these days I'll get my books unpacked... Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:35:35 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[15?, 20?]: Grace/Jeffersons/ Mamas and Papas In a message dated 1/22/99 1:24:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, TerryM2442@aol.com writes: << Anyone see the segment on The Mamas And The Papas? Woa, now there's a soap opera! Terry >> Sorry you are sick. Hope you get well son. Saw it a while back, Terry, and I love the story where they were in the Bahamas and had an offer of a gig in NY but not enough money to get there, so Michele put their last $50 on the roulette table and won. Enough for them all to get to NY and really begin their career. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:11:57 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Amelia Question Lisa K. Asked: <> Lisa, from what I understand about the word "Hejira", it basically means 'a journey away from a bad situation' which in my mind is what's going on in the song. The verse you reference: <> Is a key to what is going on - she is still in love with him but he's breaking it off with her, and her response is just what the "Animal House" boys did...ROAD TRIP!! So she's traveling, and identifying with Amelia Earhart who also courageously traveled alone in search of glory. But since she still has feelings for her love, the road is "cursed" because it takes her farther away from what she loves. yet "charmed" because she doesn't know what lies ahead. She compares herself in her journey with fear to Amelia & Icarus, who both perished in their search. She tries to deny her feelings: "Maybe I've never really loved, I guess that is the truth"...but then realizes that's *not* true and fantasizes crashing in his arms, which is another false alarm as he's no longer there for her. It's similar to "Song For Sharon" when she admits that she knows all the noble options that life is offering her, but all she really wants is to "find another lover". Amelia begins with references to aircraft, geometry, and her beginnings as a songwriter: (6 jet planes, hexagram, her guitar), and ends with the same imagery (a 747, geometric farms (Joni's original dream for her life), and the Cactus Tree Motel. The images serve as bookends for the emotions in between. Like the other songs on this amazing record, Amelia's depth grows with each listen and means different things to you depending on your own life experiences. Bob NP: XTC, "Looking For Footprints" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:02:04 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Grace/Jeffersons (NJC) gdave wrote: >I saw Signe with the JS in '93 and she was horrible. Her voice >was an unbearable mixture of middle age and heavy smoking. How sad! She had such a beautiful voice back in the beginning. >I never heard of her sitting in with Hot Tuna and thank God for that! I ws surprised when I heard this, too, back in around 90-91. She apparently has always remained good friends with Jack and Jorma. I heard that the only reason she left the group after the first album was because of marriage and children. She always wanted to get back into singing and performing once her kids grew up. >Darby, I've never seen or heard, but Diana has a very sweet voice and >disposition and I've heard it said that she is the best yet since Grace. I've also read that Diana is the best yet and Darby, unfortunately, seems to get slagged in comparison. >She then married the drummer of JA, Spencer Dryden. aka Skip Spence - I never knew that they were married! He was one of the great characters of the 60s. Kakki NP: Tori Amos - Pandora's Aquarium (love this album!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:14:10 -0500 (EST) From: David Wright Subject: Joni in new Q magazine There is a short article on p. 16 of the new (?) issue of British music magazine Q (with "the 100 greatest singles of all time" on the cover). It is about how Joni was originally going to sign with Elektra records (before Reprise), but the deal fell through because Elektra's art department wouldn't let her paint her own album covers! Thus, concludes the article, did Elektra's shortsightedness cost them our era's "best female songwriter." - --David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:24:13 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: advice on Michael Hedges (SJC) A word of advice: never use Hinton's book as a source! :) Mark At 9:39 PM -0700 1/21/99, Bounced Message wrote: > I had always wondered if "Guenivere" was about Joni, especially since it has > seagull imagery. Acccording to the Hinton book, it is partially about her - > she is the woman referred to in the lines "Guenivere hath golden hair - like > yours, lady, like yours." The use of "hath" seems a little silly these days. ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:39:29 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Amelia Question (Whew!) Wow, a post about a Joni Mitchell song! Just as I was sure I'd been transferred through some virtual wormhole to jeffersonairplane.com! (thisisajokethisisajokethisisajokethisisajoke) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:39:30 -0600 From: "Scott Crane" Subject: Re: Amelia Question (JC.. finally) > "What does Joni feeling hurt by this guy wanting her to stay >away have to do with Amelia Earhardt and what does it have to do with a >false alarm?" > >Maybe it's that sometimes love can give us the feeling that it's safe to >take off and fly - that's how high it can lift us - we think it can empower >us to brave the uncharted. Maybe the real deal can, but there are loves, >too, that can't - perhaps the message in the presence of such fleeting >surges is that one has to develop the strength to fly solo until a solid >love happens along. Earhardt fits the album's theme of flight - why not a >dialogue with another maverick woman - and what drove her to the pilot's >profession? Was it an urge to flee pain, too? I agree with some of the other posts concerning this song and Joni's identifying with Amelia. Another thing about Amelia Earhardt that Joni or the list may not know about is her love life. I learned some of this from an A&E biography on Earhardt. Amelia was in love with and had an affair with her promoter guy (who's name escapes me). According to the bio story, the romance was rocky to say the least. But, overall, The Heija LP/CD, Joni makes numerous references to being on the road and the life that goes with it. I have never "toured" in the sense of staying in "Blue Motel" rooms as real musicians do, but I did tour with a local band here in Houston for a year. Listen, every weekend Friday/Saturday nights till 3 or 4 in the morning takes its toll folks, especially for a regular 8 to 5 day job man. Its grueling. I can imagine for Joni (and others) its tuff. She makes it also sound like (via her choice of lyrics) that the road is also an escape from a relationship. It was for me after my divorce. But part of the road "scene" is the loneliness and thoughts of loved ones current and past. Especially traveling via bus/van/car vs. plane. I believe that is where she got a lot of her impressions for making Heija. Coyote: "Prisoner of the fine white lines of the freeway" Amelia: already mentioned. Amelia made her living "touring" the US making public appearances, so does Joni (sometimes). Please Joni: travel/tour to Houston sometime..... pleazzzzzzzzze Furry Sings the Blues: Sounds like an old black man she stopped an listened to on Beal Street. Perhaps while she was traveling through. Strange Boy: ??? for road references Heija: I don't know about too many direct road references, but definitely a great song for introspection. Love that line about between the forceps and the stone. Great stuff! Song For Sharon: Traveling on that tug boat, belly full of cars. Black Crow: "I took a train to a taxi, and a taxi to a train, I've been traveling so long, how am I going to know my home when I see it again...." Another of my most fav JM. Blue Motel: Staying there while touring. Refugee of the Road: The title says it all. I'll have to relisten/read the lyrics on the songs I'm not sure about road references on, but I bet I find more! Have a great weekend all! Scott Crane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:49:26 EST From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Amelia Question (JC.. finally) In a message dated 1/22/99 5:38:36 PM Central Standard Time, sacrane@saehou.com writes: << Strange Boy: ??? for road references >> Scott - Great post - we can talk about Hejira til the cows come home... The "road reference" I see here is right off the bat - he's "weaving a course of grace and havoc on a yellow skateboard through sidewalk summer traffic". The imagery is that he's moving at a different pace than the rest of the world, and that's what draws her to him. By the end of the song, she's successfully got him sequestered in an antique cellar, and his pace and her pace are equal, at least temporarily... Bob, getting ready to take in a Texas tourer, Chris Duarte... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:55:38 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: In a message dated 1/21/99 1:50:33AM, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << How many Joni list subscribers does it take to change a light bulb? Answer: 1,331 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light bulb has been changed etc etc >> Colin, that is a work of genius! Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:55:36 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in Australia In a message dated 1/19/99 6:34:52AM, GCupit@glenorchycc.tas.gov.au writes: << Hi all, This is my first post to the list. I'm Greg from Hobart, Tasmania, Australia. >> Welcome Greg, and the other Aussies who've recently joined us. I'm the only person I know who's ever been to Hobart, and I though it was a great place. And Tassie's beautiful. That's all I wanted to say really, Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:24:21 EST From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: Grace/Jefferson Airplane(NJC) In a message dated 1/22/99 7:01:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, badwolff@angelfire.com writes: << what, if anything, does anyone know/want to contribute about what I consider their greatest album, "Crown Of Creation"??? >> is that the one with david crosby's TRIAD on it? or did i hallucinate that? great cover, in any case... peace, ric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:35:19 EST From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: was amelia, now it's furry... In a message dated 1/22/99 3:40:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, sacrane@saehou.com writes: << Furry Sings the Blues: Sounds like an old black man she stopped an listened to on Beal Street. Perhaps while she was traveling through. >> i should not say anything because i cannot remember the guy's name but this song is about a real visit joni and her entourage made to a real and aging jazz singer who had "fallen to hard luck and time and other thieves" (a BRILLIANT line) as an attempt to pay homage of sorts. i think the song speaks for itself as to how the meeting went. "he points a bony finger and says 'i don't like you!' - everybody laughs like its furry's standard joke, but its true, were only welcome for our drink and smoke." really, i think furry is one of her greatest achievements, lyrically. lines like "ghosts of the darktown society come right out of the bricks at me, everybody's fly, in their finery, dancin' it up and making deals...." such rich, deep, evocative lyrics. there are only a handful of her compositions that compare to furry. but i go on. i am sure some (or many) of our list members who don't suffer from early onset alzheimers (VERY early, thank you very much!!!) will know the guy's name. but he was most definitely not some guy she met on beal street. thanks for reminding us all of that great tune, which is not often mentioned on this list, but should be... peace, ric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:00:27 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: was amelia, now it's furry... He's Furry Lewis. I remember seeing somewhere that he was going to sue Joni for using his name, but her manager said something about how she didn't use his full name. Then I listened to a live recording where Joni herself said that she met Furry Lewis. Go figure. Mark At 7:35 PM -0500 1/22/99, RickieLee1@aol.com wrote: > but i go on. i am sure some (or many) of our list members who don't suffer > from early onset alzheimers (VERY early, thank you very much!!!) > will know the > guy's name. but he was most definitely not some guy she met on beal street. ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:09:17 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: was amelia, now it's furry... >In a message dated 1/22/99 3:40:23 PM, sacrane@saehou.com writes: >><< Furry Sings the Blues: Sounds like an old black man she stopped an <<i should not say anything because i cannot remember the guy's name but this >song is about a real visit joni and her entourage made to a real and aging >jazz singer who had "fallen to hard luck and time and other thieves" (a >BRILLIANT line) as an attempt to pay homage of sorts. The following is taken from a Rolling Stone article found on Les' site Furry Lewis is Furious at Joni by Mark Seal - February 24, 1977 MEMPHIS - There's an electrical wire hanging down in front of bluesman Furry Lewis' small, olive green duplex. It drapes across his front porch, and Furry is so worried about it he can hardly get drunk and have fun with the people who have come to visit, "Somebody call up the 'lectric department to fix that thing!" he yells, sitting in the bed that has become his stage and pouring a dose of Ten High bourbon into a well-worn shot glass. "l know I've always been a rascal, but I ain't never done nothin' bad enough to be in the 'lectric chair." Age and cataracts have dulled Furry's eyesight - though not his feisty spirit - and his public appearances have been whittled down to a cherished few, but Furry's still got the world at his bedside. Guests, from young neighborhood kids seeking guitar lessons to celebrities, stream into his three-room flat. Lewis played his slide-driven, talking guitar blues with the father of the blues, W.C Handy, on Beale Street in the early 1900s. Today, the street is crumbling, and a small statue of Handy toting a horn overlooks the ruins. To Furry Lewis, Beale Street was "where somebody was killed every Saturday night and born every Sunday." At arm's reach from his bed, Furry's got all his daily necessities: battered Martin electric guitar and small amp, two half gallons of Ten High, a .38 revolver stashed inside a drawer, his walking stick, a teddy bear and a cigar box labeled "Business". "I'm 83 years old half blind and gots a wooden leg," he says. "But I sure gots a lot of friends. " But Furry's got his problems, too. Just a few weeks ago, he explains, he played at a local club and still hasn't been paid. And then there's "that woman" who recorded a song about him. The song, "Furry Sings the Blues," is on Joni Mitchell's latest album, Hejira. In it, Mitchell paints Furry "down and out in Memphis, Tennessee," and his music "mostly muttering now and sideshow spiel." She had visited the aging bluesman and the pitiful situation on Beale Street had led her to write: Furry sings the blues Fallin' to hard luck And time and other thieves While our limo is shining on his shanty street. Old Furry sings the blues. "The way I feel " says Furry "is that your name is proper only to you, and when you use it you should get results from it. She shouldn't have used my name in no way, shape, form or faction without consultin' me 'bout it first. The woman came over here and I treated her right, just like I does everybody that comes over. She wanted to hear 'bout the old days, said it was for her own personal self, and I told it to her like it was, gave her straight oil from the can." He stares at the surrealistic photo on the Hejira cover. "But then she goes and puts it all down on a record, using my name and not giving me nothing! I can't stop nobody from talkie' 'bout Beale Street, 'cause the street belongs to everybody. But when she says 'Furry,' well that belongs to me!" (Though Joni Mitchell had no response to Furry's comments, her manager, Elliot Roberts, responded: "All she said about him was, 'Furry sings the blues' the rest is about the neighborhood. She doesn't even mention his last name. She really enjoyed meeting him, and wrote about her impressions of the meeting, He did tell her that he didn't like her, but we can't pay him royalties for that. I don't pay royalties to everybody who says they don't like me. I'd go broke.") Still, Furry can't deny the truths of "Furry Sings the Blues," with its references to Beale Street's doom, that "history falls/ To parking lots and shopping malls." "They only make a statue of you when you dead and gone," Furry says. "I've known a whole lots of musicianers in my life and lots of 'em are dead now. But I guess that Handy's the only one that's ant a statue of him. But then I ain't gone yet. "Now I know I ain't a star," he says, reaching for his glass and winking with a wise old grin "But I sure might be a moon." From Rolling Stone magazine, February 24, 1977 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #39 ************************* There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to info-jonifest1999@jmdl.com for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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