From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #31 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, January 18 1999 Volume 04 : Number 031 The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Mo Hippie Metal Shit/rap (NJC) ["P. Henry" ] Julia: a Liverpool adventure NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Turbulent Indigo - promo ear [luvart@snet.net] Georgia Divas (NJC) [Michael Paz ] YES (VLJC). [Michael Paz ] IABD [Michael Paz ] Debate for Debate's Sake (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Worms or Crow (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Elvis & Joni [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V4 #27 [Michael Paz ] Re: Re: (NJC) Hippie/Cobain [Marilune@aol.com] Burglary [Anne Madden ] Plug Of The Week #2 ["Peter Holmstedt" ] More Debate (NJC) [Michael Paz ] my belated best of 1998 [Wolfebite@aol.com] Beth Nielsen Chapman and Joni Tribute CD [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: Rush (SJC) [Alan ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:43:06 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Mo Hippie Metal Shit/rap (NJC) heather wrote: < I remember that song ("Rapper's Delight") well... In my Rolling Stone Guide it dates "Rapture" by Blondie as a 1980 release. Couldn't find anything on the SugarHill Gang. > (I'm sorry if I'm a bit late on this one... trying to catch up with my digests...) heather, I can verify that this song was a huge hit here (the other side of the planet) in Nov.'79... and, as I recall, it was heavily played on pop radio for quite a long time, so it may be that it was actually up on the charts as far back as Aug/Sep... pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 09:19:45 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: Julia: a Liverpool adventure NJC When I was 18, I discovered that Ida -- my amazingly unperceptive girlfriend -- and I shared an inordinate affection for the Beatles' White Album. So we did the next sensible thing: we bought us plane tickets and flew to England. We started a pilgrimage of sorts and finally, on a cold March morning, we ended up in Liverpool. We went to the town's tourist information office where an extraordinary clerk, with an even more extraordinary accent, drew a very clever map for us with the exact bus schedules and connections we needed to visit the childhood homes of the four Beatles. We went to George's old home [can't remember anything remarkable to say about it], Paul's [where a Full Monty type in a muscle shirt, who didn't want to take any money for it, let us in to snoop around for a while], Ringo's [the outside walls COMPLETELY covered with seashells, if you please] and John's. Of the four houses, John's looked the least "working class". No seashells, no toothpick-chewing, muscle-shirted Liverpudlians there. While we were loitering with intent, a neighbor came up and asked us if we were there because of John. She told me: "John saw his mother get run over by a car right there from where you're standing." Apparently her name was Julia and she was crossing the street to meet her small son when she was killed. Maybe this is just one more urban legend, but whenever I listen to Julia, I remember the story that old neighbor of John's told me in Liverpool. The rest of the trip was fun, except that we wanted to steal a Penny Lane street plate, but there were none left: the city hall would not bother to put any more up since they were gone the very minute they were hung. We saw the barber shop and the bank, though. Then in Paris, Ida caught me in bed with a couple of Dutch street puppeteers, and Ida didn't take too kindly to this. So I went to Sedalia, Missouri, but that's another story. On this reminiscing note, I'll be leaving you all until March. In a couple of days I'll be in Tierra del Fuego, the southernmost city in the world, where the sun won't set until February. I'll be hooking up with some friends, and we'll be taking a cruise to Antarctica to wait for Day-Night, the first night in the year. So, as the time to unsub is drawing close, I wanted to say so long and wish you all a safe winter. I'll be back a little before Jack Frost leaves your latitudes and starts his journey towards mine, where he'll be welcome, wind-chill factor or not. I'll be online until Monday night. Love to you all, WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:03:14 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Klempner Subject: weepies/origin of rap (NJC) another weepie: "Nothing Compares 2U" AFKA Prince/S. O'Connor Re: rap I was amazed when I read some transcripts from the pre-60's African-American verbal pastime called "playing the dozens." It's so much like rap, even the profanity! If you want, I'll post some excerpts from "The Signifying Monkey" or "The Titanic." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:16:17 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: Turbulent Indigo - promo ear At 08:29 PM 1/16/99 EST, you wrote: >well, i don't want to make anyone jealous, but i have one of those ears. when >TI was released, her label was celebrating her return and hosted receptions at >several key markets across the nation, boston being one. When was this!!?? Heather (and hurry up with the answer before I fax you ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:41:18 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Georgia Divas (NJC) Lori wrote: "Georgia divas?" Yeah you know like "Georgia O' Keefe". Hi ya Lori! Just kidding around with my southern buds over there in Ga. Sorry I missed you here in N.O. It was not my intention, but with dad in town and the kids, our own festivities got out of hand. And now the Carnaval madness is upon us. Are you coming in for final carnaval of the century? Hope you had a great New Year. Best, Michael NP-Thomas The Tank Engine Theme ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:41:24 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: YES (VLJC). Susan wrote: " We live in Morro Bay (12 miles north of San Luis Obispo, Ca. where the "Keys To Ascension" concert was recorded). I thought I had read or heard somewhere that this is where Jon Anderson lives. Do you know anything about that?(Listers?) Cheers, Susan C." Hi Susan, I love Rush and especially Yes. I have seen them many many times and met most of them (except Patrick Moraz and Peter Banks). Jon does have a place in SLO, but I am told he also has a place nearer LA. He ALWAYS attends the Namm convention in LA and can be found hanging out around the Cakewalk, Kurzweill booths. I always run into him there. He gave copies of Toltec to Brian Stoltz (the guitar player in the Funky Meters) and me before the record was released in stores. We got to see him perform solo at the Kurzweill booth that same year WOW! It was like seeing Joni at the Gavin Convention here in New Orleans a couple of years ago. What a difference a small intimate room makes when someone you love is singing. I love KTA 2 esp. Mind Drive ( so old school Yes). Jon also released an album called The Promise Ring (recorded at the Frog n' Peach Pub in SLO. On the liner notes, he makes reference to strolling past the Pub with wife Jane and hearing the wonderful Celtic music. Hope this helps Peace, Michael NP-Born to Dance-Jon Anderson & The Frog n' Peach Orchestra ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 12:59:31 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: IABD Mary Wrote: "I can't believe you guys are bringing up IABD! First the Sons of Champlin (SP?), now this! My husband (then boyfriend) and his best friend started a record store one summer so they wouldn't have to cut their hair to get summer jobs. We played IABD quite frequently in those days, and were very disappointed they didn't produce more albums. Being from the midwest, we never saw them in concert, so I can't speak to their live performance. But that first album especially, was remarkable. Recently we were listening to that orange sunshine radio on the internet and they were playing one of the more obscure cuts on the first record (not White Bird) and it sounded really good. We have to get our old turntable hooked up to our new system! Then we could bring out some of those old 60's albums with the $3.99 price stickers and really hear some good music! ;-D" Hi Mary- I great big ME TOO on this band. They were really cool live too. The band had members from round these parts and last I hear Billy Gregory was still kicking around town here. I saw them a couple of times, the most memorable would be one of the shows they did at "The Warehouse" (a now torn down concert facility that had some of the most amazing shows I ever saw eg: Yes/Jethro Tull for $3, The Allman Bros shows every New Years Eve for years, Humble Pie, Gentle Giant, Jeff Beck, plus so many more. Do you have IABD Today? I like that record alot. Paz NP-Lembrancas-Tuck and Patti (with a band WOW) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:33:04 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Debate for Debate's Sake (NJC) Michael Y wrote: "Instead, they were throwing impromptu parties outside where they would basically try to trick their friends into dancing to music they would normally hate, by isolating the bass line (for example) of an Aerosmith song or something, then making up rhymes on the spot to recite over the beats." Hi Michael- Missed you while I was in DC last month when I was up there for meetings. I am sure all the folks that actually wrote the beats, samples, licks, riffs, bits (that were proven successes for them originally, would disagree with that statement about "tricking their friends", but honestly Your Honor, we truly never meant to infringe this "other" artists rights (;-} ;-}). Paz NP-Dance With Me-Tuck and Patti ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:41:30 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Worms or Crow (NJC) Susan wrote: " Judging from his tone, it sounds like Michael is going off in some corner to eat worms....." HI Susan- Which MIKEY were you refering to here, love? Speaking for myself "I" only eat crow in the corner. And I "NEVER" share! HA HA HA HA HA HA Paz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:00:49 EST From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Elvis & Joni Was just perusing the Elvis C. Homepage and see where he's in Australia this month for a whole bunch on shows - any of the Aussies planning on catching Elvis down under? It also states that Elvis *WILL* have a track on the Joni Tribute CD coming out in May. It doesn't say which song he's going to cover. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:14:25 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V4 #27 Dave wrote: "gdave (who is celebrating his 37th birthday today by going to see Jorma Kaukonen & Merl Saunders tonight at the Bottom Line in NYC.)" Thanks for the insight on the Dead. I enjoyed the Phish comment the best. Maybe when I grow up I will be able to appreciate them more. There were lots of Joni songs that I didn't get a first and I am glad because later I got to listen to those songs and it was like getting a new record if you know what I mean. No Apologies is not one of my faves on TTT, but I will probably be crazy for it later. Happy Belated Birthday and hope you enjoyed Jorma. I have some tapes of him and Jack recorded here at Tips. I loved Hot Tuna Burgers era and loads of Airplane and related stuff. Cheers (raising my glass to you), Paz NP-Caruso-Pavarotti/Dalla from Pavarotti and Friends ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:23:31 EST From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: (NJC) Hippie/Cobain In a message dated 1/16/99 6:46:07 PM, IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: >I know what you mean. I could use a good J right about now! > >Paul I hey there are some good js. try Janet Weiss, best drummer ever. or Jack Off Jill, girly goth band. lots of Js there. - -mariana (who got tix for the Natalie Merchant concert on Feb 10th!) NP: Jack Off Jill, -Sexless Demons and Scars- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:38:26 -0500 From: Anne Madden Subject: Burglary Catman, I can sympathize with you. On November 30th someone broke into my house and stole almost my entire CD collection. My son was in the house at the time. He came upstairs and they took off. About 10 days later I checked some local used CD stores and sure enough I found about 60(some of which are very obscure and I had quite a few imports - very hard to replace). The police arrested a 16 year old girl and her 17 year old boyfriend. They couldn't prove break & enter but they have been charged with possession of stolen goods. In Canada the law is really soft on young offenders. They get a slap on the wrist, and their names are not published. These two punks have a rap sheet as long as your arm. They both have outstanding assault charges against them - real sweethearts. The store in question did provide the police with names and addreses only after the police got tough with them. After reviewing my list the store owner swore to the police they didn't have any more CD's. Last week I wandered back into the store and lo and behold I found more of my CD's - I couldn't believe my eyes. The police are now trying to charge the store owner because I was able to prove the CD's were mine. Because an insurance claim was put in even if I wanted to buy back my own CD's I can't. I am so pissed off I could spit! Sorry for venting. The good news is my Joni collection (except TTT) was not taken. Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:55:04 +0100 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Plug Of The Week #2 Hi there, I received one of the BEST albums of 1998 in the 11th hour of the year : Mick Bird - Na'au ( Na'au Inc. ) " Na'au " is Hawaiian for " the insides " or " from the gut " ......the place where truth and strenght live, the instintive primal compass that is sometimes hard to follow, but never wrong. Mick Bird is certainly a man who follows his primal compass. He is 42, was born in Hawaii, but has lived in many countries. He's an adventurer, pilot, athlete, musician, father, husband, singer/songwriter, philosopher, human being..... Right now, as you are reading this, he's out trying to become the first person to row a boat around the world. He has already completed 23% of his solo journey, in two legs: California to Hawaii ; Hawaii to the Marshall Islands, and in April 1999, he'll row leg 3 ; Marshall Islands to Australia. His new album "Na'au", was recorded in Jackson Browne's Groovemasters Studio in Santa Monica, produced by Steve Deutsch ( No Doubt, Was Not Was, Guns ' N ' Roses ) and engineered by Paul Dieter ( Jackson Browne, CPR, CSN, Venice, Anastasia & John ). Background vocals are provided by Jackson Browne, Timothy B Schmit, Mark Lennon ( from Venice ), Kate Markowitz and Arnold McCuller. Keyboards - Craig Doerge and Van Dyke Parks, guitars - Goerge Doering, James Harrah and Doug Livingston, bass - Jimmy Johnson and drums - Russ Kunkel. The bagpiper is the same as you hear in "Braveheart" and "Titanic" - Eric Rigler. You can hear traces of James Taylor, Dan Fogelberg and Jimmy Buffett in Mick Bird's singing and songwriting - but he's got a tone that's totally unique. For a while, Mick and his company Na'au Inc were in serious negotiations with Higher Octave/Virgin about a deal, but that seems to have fallen through - so the only way to get this beautiful album is from Mick Bird's own website at : http://www.naau.com ....and while you're there, be sure to read the pages about his marvelous life so far - and don't miss the interviews with all the participating musicians and collaborators! If you like to write to Mick and his associates you can do so by using : TransRow@aol.com or JohnFitz44@aol.com or Steven_Gutzman@candle.com Good luck! Peter ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:23:10 -0500 From: patrick leader Subject: RE: Debate for Debate's Sake (NJC) hey michael, it's particularly great to be back and to see your great cheer here on the list. i wish i could be at carnaval! i have to point out that michael was talking about playing records at private parties. so far ascap doesn't collect royalties for private usage, although they'd like to, as well as for campfire girl singalongs and ballet class accompaniment. and given ascap's huge lobbying force, i'm not sure private parties are safe. but at the time michael was describing, no other artists' rights were infringed. then, as hip-hop moved into public performances and recordings, for 5 or 10 years the owners of the original copyrights of the samples did lose some royalties. if they had signed intelligent contracts, the missed royalties would be a teeny percentage of the total income on the song, much less than the royalties the dead never made on all those bootlegs they permitted. and then the whole mechanism of vetting samples was put in place and everyone gets paid now. i will bet the total amount of uncollected royalties from that short window is less than a millionth of the huge amount of money the record companies have made on hip-hop. and nothing but a grain of sand next to the royalties that black '50s and '60s r&b artists were cheated out of by their corrosive, racist contracts. so if we're going to talk about rights being infringed, lets have a little perspective... cheers to you. patrick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:57:49 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: More Debate (NJC) Hola Patrick- Long time! We missed you around here, albeit there has been no "lack of" good debate or bad debate for that matter. Carnaval is in full swing as they say. It started here on (JAN. 6) Kings Day or Little Christmas, as my mom always called it. The first king cake is served on that day and the festivities begin. The coronation balls are what is really happening now and most people (unless involved in a Carnival Club) don't go to those. Come on down, if you dare we could use some more "upallnighters" in town for the last Mardi Gras of the century. In regards to your comments about infringement, I believe I am using a considerable amount of perspective on the artists (who have been cheated) part. As you know, living in New Orleans, where funk is king (and they thought it was only the birthplace of jazz and delta blues), many of our own have been sampled and not compensated or even credited. The Meters are at the top of that list. Guys like George Porter, Jr. and Zig, and Art Neville are pissed too. Cause they were ripped off before by their own record company from back when (but that's a whole other can of worms. There are tons of local rap artists here that are well known locally as well as nationally. Master P, Mystical, Fiend, Mia X, Coolbone (which is a combo brass/hip hop band really cool), Ghetto Twins, etc....I love alot of the bulk of their work, but personally I prefer the artists that come up with their own loops without "borrowing" someone else's thunder, so to speak. On the other hand, it is kinda cool when someone samples something truly obscure and credits the artist and it generating income again for that person. patrick wrote: "and nothing but a grain of sand next to the royalties that black '50s and '60s r&b artists were cheated out of by their corrosive, racist contracts." I would be interested to see what kind of "real" numbers we are talking about here. Later. Best, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:01:51 EST From: Wolfebite@aol.com Subject: my belated best of 1998 i've enjoyed everyone's list so i finally sat down to check the release dates of what i've bought this past year- and really enjoyed- to see what fits into my best. here they is- in no particular order really: 1. gillian welch: hell among the yearlings 2. lucinda williams: car wheels on a gravel road 3. beck: mutations 4. massive attack: mezzanine 5. bang on a can/eno: music for airports 6. happy rhodes: many worlds are born tonight 7. gavin bryars: cadman requiem & A man in a room, gambling 8. mimi: soak 9. taming the tiger... (by a slim margin- the disc isn't staying with me) 10. ian bostridge/tenor: schumann liederkreis/dichterliebe & shubert lieder (both EMI)- what a voice!!!!!! & 11. not 'new'- but new releases: "Sugar in my Bowl: the very best of Nina Simone, 1967-1872" & "A Perfrect stranger: Marianne Faithful, the Island Anthology". It's great to get reaquainted with some old favorites! 12. the lomax series... see below other stuff i bought this past year (but with an earlier release date than 98 or part of a series....) that has been on either constant listening cycles or has been profounding moving are... folk music of sweden. saami jojks. 3 cd collection of late 50's field recordings. (1997 box set with book) old regular baptist- lined out hymnody: (1997: smithsonian folkways) several discs from the lomax re-releases- Southern Journey series on rounder: "voices from the american south" (vol 1: 1997), "Earliest times" (vol 13: 1998!!! should be up top!) & "Harp of a thousand strings" (vol. 9: 1998) gaelic psalms from lewis/scottish trad #6 (1994: greentrax- thanks to David W!) john cage/david tudor: indeterminancy (1992: smithsonian folkways) patty larkin's perishable fruits (1997: highstreet), angels running (1993: windham) & strangers' world (1995: windham)!! I'm a late patty bloomer!!! kronos quartet, early music (1997: nonsuch) gavin bryars: farewell to philosphy (1996: point music) the musical adventure continues doug ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:32:34 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Beth Nielsen Chapman and Joni Tribute CD Hi from David Mingus. This is my first post to the discussion list, but I'm a regular reader of the JMDL. I made the homepage when Wally posted my Atlanta B-day Tour report and photos. I snapped some photos of our local songwriter's festival last night. I thought you might enjoy knowing what you missed. I'm also taking this opportunity to make a suggestion or two regarding Joni's Tribute CD. 2nd Annual Southwest Florida Songwriter's Fest January 16, 1999 Hall of Fifty States Fort Myers, Florida Local songwriter enthusiasts brought big-City songwriters/performers to lil' ole Fort Myers. We gathered in a vintage hall reminiscent of a '40s cylindrical (armory inspired) structure with a draped stage at one end. Stacked chairs were neatly tethered together; a modest electronic assemblage adorned the stage. Pretty basic but raw!!! The music was all original and we immediately recognized some major hits. The audience was intimate and "of the industry." I got to chat with Beth Nielsen Chapman - she's a real Joni fan (more about that below). Here's a blurb on each of the four performers. Del Suggs (native Floridian, sort of a short David Crosby with jet black long hair and an even more animated walrus mustache, well known on the university circuit) a strong country/folk/rocker. He was joined by a friend and harmonica player from Arizona. They performed well together. A very talented poet with a heart from the 60s. John Mooney, voted top blues artist in Europe, electrified the audience with his B.B.King/Dr.John style. He headlined at the Boiler Room in New Orleans for a period. We were memorized by his coon-ass crooning and phenomenal electrical guitar. Delightfully, we learned he now lives near here. Chuck Cannon joined us from Nashville. Cannon is a very commercially successful writer with numerous credits on the charts (1994 Grammy - Song of the Year). He is also has a beautiful voice and a ready guitar. He was joined in a few duets by his wife Jan, a Nashville vocalist. Together, this very attractive, talented couple would be perfect for Joni's Tribute CD - their performance of "Cool Water" would be a sure hit. Beth Nielsen Chapman is a dynamo. She sang from her acclaimed "Sand and Water" CD and shared songs that are soon to be released. Her strong stylized vocals are seasoned with joy and sorrow. She is accomplished on the keyboard and guitar, and plays a pretty mean dulcimer, too. Beth has always been my number one choice to do a song on Joni's Tribute CD. She could reach the mark. Her keyboard would enable her to do an excellent "Judgment of the Moon and Stars." Her strong accappello finish Saturday night proved she would do honor to "Shadows and Light." I spoke with her after the performance. She is a big Joni fan. I told her about Joni's Tribute CD and asked if she were to do a song, which would it be. She exuberantly replied that it would be an honor to do any Joni song and that she knew them all by heart! You missed a great time. PS - another suggestion would be Simply Red performing "River". What do you think? With best wishes to our friend Wally - David Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:38:36 -0600 From: Alan Subject: Re: Rush (SJC) John Villasana wrote: >I was kidding about the bitter part. But I really do love Rush. I love them a lot. >I can say this will all sincerity. They were a guiding light through a troubled adolescence. Time for an extended "me too.." Before I discovered Joni, in my mid 20s, I had never found music that I connected so strongly with, as I did with Rush. My first exposure was "Permanent Waves," and I remember clearly how it just blew my mind (and almost, my eardrums). Deep lyrics and really amazing music. I've never heard any band blend bass and drums the way they do; often, it seems they are leading and the guitar is just filling in. I really do love a lot of different types of music, and I find I rarely listen to Rush anymore, but I can't ever imagine giving up Permanent Waves, or 2112, or Hemispheres, or Power Windows, or Hold Your Fire. Those are my favorite of their albums, and they are just a part of me. Unfortunately, (IMHO) I think much of their later work is less inspired. For years I wished they would add a 4th member; someone who could sing (better than Geddy Lee) some of the songs and play guitar as well as Alex Lifeson. I think that would have brought new life into the band, but, oh well... In many ways, I think success had spoiled them. Many have said the same about Joni; hell, she has almost said it herself. Something to the effect of "I have rich people's problems now..." It's been about a month since my last post. I'd like to say welcome, welcome, welcome to all the newbies. They they sure do fit in. Love for Joni is a tenuous common thread, but a very deep one. Alan Poff. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #31 ************************* There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to info-jonifest1999@jmdl.com for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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