From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #28 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Saturday, January 16 1999 Volume 04 : Number 028 The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Grateful for the Dead - NJC [Fenix40@aol.com] Re:The Grateful Dead (Long w/ SJC) ["Lance A. Michel" ] Welcome Angela, and Down To You [Howard Wright ] Re: Joni's recording style [Howard Wright ] Re: For the Roses/Joni's Recording Style [kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant)] Re: interpret-Passion Play [kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant)] Re[2]:(NJC) Who invented Rap ["John M. Lind" ] Re: joni fan from "down under" says hi to jmdl [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: For the Roses/Joni's Recording Style [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: NJC: Ritual Purification [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Mo Hippie Metal Shit/rap (NJC) ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re: Joni on Jeopardy --- again ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re: Turbulent Indigo ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re: (NJC) Who invented Rap ["Winfried Hühn" ] Re: The sweets we like [Dreamzvill@aol.com] Re: interpret-Passion Play [MHart16164@aol.com] Re: Hejira Heyday and a Highway (Warning: Rambling) [MHart16164@aol.com] Re: rap on rap (NJC) [Dreamzvill@aol.com] Re: Cobain/ Hippie (NJC)- RUSH [luvart@snet.net] Re: interpret-Passion Play ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re[2]: rap on rap (NJC) ["John M. Lind" ] Re: RUSH (NJC) [Dreamzvill@aol.com] Re: For the Roses/Ludwig's Tune [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: For the Roses/Ludwig's Tune [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Guys on Dolls (NJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Guys on Dolls (NJC) [Dreamzvill@aol.com] Re: Guys on Dolls (NJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Guys on Dolls (NJC) [Dreamzvill@aol.com] Harp jokes (NJC) [David Wright ] Re: NJC: Ritual Purification (REM) [Ginamu@aol.com] Armestead Maupin (NJC) [evian ] Re: weighing in [Debra Kaufman ] Re: The sweets we like [catman ] Re: The sweets we like [DKasc13293@aol.com] Re: weighing in [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: For the Roses/Ludwig's Tune [Mark-n-Travis ] Re: NJC: Ritual Purification (REM) [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: NJC: Ritual Purification (REM) [Ginamu@aol.com] More Passion Play [Zapuppy@webtv.net (Penny Gibbons)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 04:20:11 EST From: Fenix40@aol.com Subject: Grateful for the Dead - NJC Gdave does a nice job defending the Dead. I was never a huge fan of theirs, but feel sorry not to have attended one of their concerts which I loved to read about and hear about from Dead-head friends. As a band, a lot of Dead music does not hold up that well. They were never the slickest, tightest band and never had much studio polish. If you compare their attempts at three and four part harmony, they had nothing over harmony masters like the Beach Boys and CSN and Y. As singers, they were somewhat weak and inclined to some flat notes. Much of the early music they made was too loose and free form for my tastes, though it was probably very new and fresh since they were at the vanguard of psychedelic rock. It helped to be on drugs in order to really hear it, something I have also found to be true about synth/tribal/bass-and- boom/techno music at gay Circuit parties. The Dead had two albums which belong in my top twenty five, WORKINGMAN'S DEAD and AMERICAN BEAUTY. The latter in particular, is their masterpiece and every song is a gem. This is an album which captures a time, a style, a value system, a way of life and relates it all in some gorgeously penned songs rich with imagery and feeling. It's something you get or you don't get and it helps very much to have been a hippie, something I am proud to hold onto. When I first heard American Beauty, I was fourteen and I HATED it. So much of it sounded like the country music my father played on weekends -- for God's sake, some of it, like OPERATOR, sounded identical to Merle Haggard and it had a horrible steel pedal guitar in it. Shit kicker music. It needed some more listenings and some exposure to life on my part. The Dead, as a band, could not be separated from their lifestyle and their philosophy. They were the hippies who never really rejoined the mainstream, and thank God someone didn't. Just as we will continue to have punk revivals every five years, so we will continue to have psychedelic revivals and young hippies who want more from life than "a mortgage and a lawn to mow" to quote someone else. BOX OF RAIN, TRUCKIN', SUGAR MAGNOLIA -- these are amazing songs that bring me right back to a way of being I can only visit every once in a while at gatherings like the Rainbow Tribe or where ever hippies continue to gather to celebrate communal values, brotherhood, the spirit over the material, the celebration of nature. It beats life in a cubicle. Clark ( known as Tarzan Jambalaya to some) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:44:44 -0800 From: "Lance A. Michel" Subject: Re:The Grateful Dead (Long w/ SJC) Howdy GDave, I must concur with you mate on all points......Thanks for the post. P.S.--BTW, I actually might give ya' a run for your money on being resident Head.......;-) P.P.S--How was the show tonight; sounds like a smoker? And HAPPY B-DAY! P.P.P.S--Do you trade boots? - -- Lance A. Michel: - -There are as many shades to reality as there are windows unto the soul- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 05:13:09 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Birthplace of Rap I always figured it grew out of the rhymic speech HA! of the Southern Baptist HA! ministers HA! in the black churches. HA! - -- Can I get a witness? Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:28:42 +0000 (GMT) From: Howard Wright Subject: Welcome Angela, and Down To You Angela Takats wrote: >Hello jmdl subscribers....well i'm new to this game. My names Angela and >i live in Sydney, Australia. I am a huge joni fan and have just joined >the jmdl......so HI! Hi Angela and welcome to the list! >My favourite joni song at the moment is "down to you" from Court and >Spark.....the album sounds so seventies, but i love it, and "down to >you" is such a beautiful melody, full of thoughtful words (it's my fav >rainy day song).....don't know how to play it on the guitar yet (it's >more piano though) Down To You has always been a huge favourite of mine. When I was first getting into Joni, I had a tape with Hejira on one side and Hissing of Summer Lawns on the other, and I had Blue on vinyl - that was all. Then my brother played me a compilation he had done with "Down To You" on it - the song blew me away, and I knew that I had to get Court and Spark next! The song has everything - great words (the opening lines are hard to beat: "Everything comes and goes, marked my lovers and styles of clothes"), great melody, great piano playing from Joni, and that wonderful orchestral section in the middle. Just awesome. I've worked out some of the piano - up to the point "You go down to the pick up station ..." I've got it sounding pretty good, but I need to work on the rest ... >I have been reading through some of the messages from the list and i >really hope i'm not too "low brow" and "uncultured" for this discussion >list, i can't understand most of what has been going on in the list >(what's with all this hippie stuff?????), but i spose i'll pick up on >the slang over time. Don't worry ... the list goes through phases where one or two topics are hotly debated, and there is little talk of Joni and her music, then there'll be a phase where discussion of the music dominates. Everything comes and goes on the list too y'know! The best thing to do is just skip over stuff you're not interested in - most people pick and choose what they read and write about. Re: slang, one acronym you might want to know about is NJC meaning No Joni Content. This is (should!) be put in the subject line to indicate to others that there is nothing in the post about Joni. If you're a guitar player, you might want to look at the guitar section at www.jmdl.com - lots of chords/tablature there to try out! Howard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:42:00 +0000 (GMT) From: Howard Wright Subject: Re: Joni's recording style Luke Bierlein wrote: >Maybe Joni's recording style has changed, but in the earlier days did >she sing and play guitar/piano at the same time (recording both)? What >about on the medley-styles songs like on "FTR" and "Court and Spark"? I think that on many early albums she probably did play and song at the same time. On Blue this is definitely true - you can hear some of the "clicking" sounds as Joni's fingers/fingernails hit the keys leaking into the vocal mic. Also, there are a few points where the vocals start to distort because they are too loud - if they had been recorded separately from the piano they could have fixed this. Or maybe they just wanted to keep it like this because the rest of the take was so damn good it wasn't worth trying again just for the sake of a couple of notes? The material on Blue is so emotionally sincere and demanding, I can't imagine Joni being able to do more than couple of takes at one time. With the guitar I'm not so sure. Judging from the sound, I'd say she often overdubbed the vocals. It's even harder to get a good sound on guitar and vocals when recording both together. On later piano songs (maybe all her later songs?) I think she usually records vocals separately from the instruments. And on the medley (Lesson In Survival > Let The Wind Carry Me): >Did she just continue playing whatever instrument it was and move right >into the next song? Probably not. Joni might have it in mind that this song will follow the other on the album, but she would probably record them separately. They could be edited together when the two tracks are finished. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 99 10:54:07 GMT From: kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant) Subject: Re: For the Roses/Joni's Recording Style Luke wrote: what about a new album full of reincarnations of songs never recorded/released? I'd love to hear "Go Tell The Drummer Man," "Carnival in Kenora," and many others I've heard on tapes in the present Joni style. It might be a fun thing for her to do, and, though I may be wrong, it'd be something much-appreciated by her fans as well. Has this idea come up many times before? and Paul wrote: Luke, I'm sure she feels she has long outgrown those songs. I doubt you'll ever hear her do them. In fact, I'll bet she's forgotten most of them. I agree that she'll probably never re-record any of them, or play them live (not even to try to get a rise out of those critics who accuse her of playing "obscure" songs in concert :-) But I wouldn't be surprised to find some of those unrecorded 60s songs on the box set that she eventually releases. As for Joni's recording style of segueing one song into another (e.g. Lesson In Survival -> Let The Wind Carry Me), she seems to have abandoned that long ago. If I'm not mistaken the last occurrence of that was on HOSL (The Boho Dance -> Harry's House/Centerpiece) -- unless we count The Tenth World -> Dreamland on DJRD or Chair in the Sky -> Wolf That Lives in Lindsey on Mingus, which both kinna vaguely segue, at least to my ear, in that the 2nd one begins in a similar key or with a similar beat to where the 1st one ends. She *has* mentioned in interviews that she spends a great deal of time selecting the sequence of all the songs she puts on her CDs, but I don't recall any real segues in her 80s or 90s work. -Kenny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 99 12:37:43 GMT From: kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant) Subject: Re: interpret-Passion Play Marilyn wrote: Now, this has been a big discussion between my husband & I: Passion Play- he doesn't understand the song. What does it mean... "Enter the multitudes In Exxon blue In radiation rose Enter the multitudes... exxon blue...radiation rose is this after a nuke blast? Hi Marilyn, The meaning of Passion Play has come up here before, a good while back, with an inconclusive outcome. It was good to see it again, and I enjoyed the reading the discussion that followed, especially since I'm not terribly familiar with biblical stories. But I do have some strong opinions about your color questions (Exxon blue, radiation rose.) I've always felt that "Exxon blue" and "radiation rose" are among Joni's most cryptic and concise social commentaries -- an example of her ability to paint with words, to make an entire statement with a mere adjective or shade of a color. For me, Exxon blue is ocean blue, marred with oil spills (recall that the famous Exxon Valdez accident of 1989 was still making headlines when NRH was released 3 years later.) Radiation rose would be a reddish color that comes from exposure to nuclear matter. With "enter the multitudes, in Exxon blue, in radiation rose" I hear a reference to the plight of a crowded/overcrowded planet with failed ecosystems (certainly one of her recurring themes.) "Who you gonna get to do the dirty work when all the slaves are free?" I perceive as an assault on capitalists (e.g. the big wig financiers of Dog Eat Dog.) This is just my interpretation, how I always heard those parts of the song, and what I like to think they represent. But I *have* always had difficulty tying the various elements of the song together :-) -Kenny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:30:56 -0500 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Re[2]:(NJC) Who invented Rap You're all wrong! Rap was originated by the ancient Masadonians in the 6th century B.C. as recorded in the Library of Alexandria, which was of course destroyed by the Romans in an attempt to convince the rest of the world that bouzouki music was the oldest form of song! John~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:44:53 EST From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: joni fan from "down under" says hi to jmdl In a message dated 1/14/99 10:42:39 PM Central Standard Time, joni216@hotmail.com writes: << Hello jmdl subscribers....well i'm new to this game. My names Angela and i live in Sydney, Australia. I am a huge joni fan and have just joined the jmdl......so HI!>> Hi back yo ya' Angela & Welcome! <> It's a beauty all right, almost like a mini-musical on its own. <> A couple have left, but I think there's still some 'down under' folks out there...And I would say it *IS* rare for someone in 1999 who is 21 to be a Joni fan, it wasn't that way when I was 21 (1978). I think the reason this reason this list exists is that we all have few if any folks to share our adoration of Joni's work with. And btw you're not the youngest one here by a long shot... << Now, forgive me if i am SO behind the times....but whatever happened to joni having throat cancer...was that just a rumour? can anyone tell me if she has recovered, am i rude for bringing it up?>> As far as I know that's just an unsubstantiated rumor - I heard her sing in November and talked to her in person and she sounded superb... Keep on Postin' Bob M. in SC NP (Now Playing) Elvis C., "Pay it back" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:48:08 EST From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: For the Roses/Joni's Recording Style In a message dated 1/14/99 11:44:19 PM Central Standard Time, LucasBC@webtv.net writes: << Alright, I've given it about two weeks to sink in. I've listened to it both carefully and while busily doing odd-jobs. My verdict on FTR is that I absolutely love it. I wasn't sure when I first heard the piano at the beginning of "Banquet" and when I realized that it didn't have the same guitar rhythm of "Blue", but I'm well on my way to a great relationship with this album, if I may be so cheesy. Right now i'm really into "Blond In the Bleachers", "CBSASF", "For the Roses", etc, etc. The rest will come in time I'm sure. >> Luke, what about "Judgement of the Moon &Stars? That's the one that jumped out at me right off the bat... Good luck with you new relationship ;^D Bob M. NP: Bruce, "This Hard Land" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:56:11 EST From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: Ritual Purification In a message dated 1/15/99 12:47:03 AM Central Standard Time, jlamadoo@one.net writes: << In an act of ritual purification, I've decided to cleanse my library of CDs that suck. I want bids from the JMDL community for the collection of all 5 CDs that suck and I'll pay for the postage via the slowest, cheapest means possible. They all play correctly- that's not the problem. >> Jim, I'll go you one more - I'll GIVE these away to the first person who gives me an address and be glad to be rid of them - they are truly awful, especially compared to your selections (I wouldn't give up an REM for nuttin'): 1. Royal Crescent Mob "Midnight Rose's" 2. Spot 1019 "The World Owes Me A Buzz" 3. PJ Harvey "Rid Of Me" (Yes PJ, hopefully I soon will be - you can shriek for someone else) That's it, 3 CD's for the price of (1) E-mail - No more selections to buy, no annoying cards to return, etc. Speaking of record clubs, I see that TTT is now available through BMG Music - maybe some folks will pick it up for cheap and get turned on to it... Bob NP: Brian Setzer "Let's Live It Up" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:20:20 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Mo Hippie Metal Shit/rap (NJC) - ---------- > From: Mark-n-Travis > To: luvart@snet.net > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Mo Hippie Metal Shit/rap (NJC) > Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 9:56 PM > > luvart@snet.net wrote: > > > > At 06:44 AM 1/14/99 PST, you wrote: > > > > > >Wait a minute ... I could have sworn that Blondie invented rap ... or > > >maybe it was Aerosmith. ;-) > > > > > Blondie's song Rapture is the earliest kind of rap song I remember hearing. > > > > Heather > > Does anybody remember an album that Joan Baez put out around '77 or '78 > called 'Blowin' Away'? It included a cut called 'Time Rag' and I swear > this was Joan Baez doing rap. Except for the chorus it was all spoken. > Went something like this: > > Rippin' along towards middle-age > When my music career kinda missed a page > Record sales began to drop > The Management all began to hop > 'Not to worry', they said, 'you'll see, > What you need is some fresh publicity > Just give us a nod and we'll all leap > Towards putting you back at the top of the heap.' > (SNIP) > So maybe it was Joan Baez who invented rap.:-) > > Mark in Seattle > 'Say what you mean, mean what you say and throw a little joke and a song > into the mix from time to time to lighten things up' - Grace Slick I LOVE THAT SONG! Thanks for printing the words! yeah that was a rap song! But, "give peace a chance" came out in 1970? Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:23:37 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Joni on Jeopardy --- again - ---------- > From: IVPAUL42@aol.com > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Joni on Jeopardy --- again > Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 10:09 PM > > On the Jeopardy aired tonight here, under the category that was something > about Yellow and music, was the answer (paraphrasing) the Joni Mitchell song > from "Ladies Of the Canyon" that was about ecology. > The defending champ, a Chicago schoolteacher, buzzed in and said unassuredly, > "What is Big Yellow Taxi?" > For $200, i think. > > Paul I I watched Jeopardy last night and there was no yellow category, I'll watch tonight. Maybe we get different airings. Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:31:23 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Turbulent Indigo - ---------- > From: Luke Bierlein > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Turbulent Indigo > Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 12:23 AM > > Hi everyone! > I was only somewhat recently made aware of the *special* edition of > "Turbulent Indigo" that was released without the jewel case and with > that little tin ear inside. . I don't know how possible/impossible > this is because I've never heard it discussed. > If anyone knows any way > to get a copy of that CD package, I'd really appreciate the information > and help. Oh, I'm also on the lookout for the non-jewel "Hits". Thanks > so much!! > > Luke I have a copy of the "special package". There is no difference in what's on the CD as I understand. Only the first 1000 or so copies sold had the ear ring in it. I would have loved to have gotten that. Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:44:23 +0100 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: (NJC) Who invented Rap John M. Lind wrote: > You're all wrong! Rap was originated by the ancient Masadonians in the 6th > century B.C. as recorded in the Library of Alexandria, which was of course > destroyed by the Romans in an attempt to convince the rest of the world > that bouzouki music was the oldest form of song! > I'm awfully sorry about having to inform you that rap music is a genuinely German concept. It was invented by cold-stricken Bavarian farmers whose sore throat prevented them from yodeling back the cattle from their alpine meadows. So they had to go up there themselves, which they of course hated -- hence the strong language. Not really surprising though that you Americans claim it for yourselves -- after all, that's what you always do. You stole the Hamburger from the citizens of Hamburg, Germany. You kidnapped Mr. Levi Strauss right out of his idyllic German tailor shop, and now everybody thinks the "blue jeans" is a genuinely American product. You murdered our best car manufacturer by merging it with that junk-producing, neighborhood-destroying company from a rural village somewhere in the Great-Lakes area. We don't believe you. Winfried, having watched the Republican impeachment trial managers on CNN and beginning to adopt their way of seeing things... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:06:57 EST From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: Cobain/ Hippie In a message dated 1/15/99 4:38:46 AM !!!First Boot!!!, refab@neptune.ConnectI.com writes: << I am bitter because RUSH is not the most popular band in the world, and despite their status... >> Were you really kidding? There are a lot of people who really feel kinda like that! One is my 18-year old son. He has learned alot from that band's intellectual and global focus...being from Canada, they're big Joni fans, too. Cheers, Susan C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:10:39 EST From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: joni fan from "down under" says hi to jmdl Hi Ange - I found your post to be so absolutely *charming*, I had to respond! :) <> That's Ok - maybe we're *all* too lowbrow and uncultured for this list!!! =) And, hey, I think it's a great way to pick up on slang from ALL cultures!!! Welcome, and have a great stay... Cheers, Susan C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:19:25 EST From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: Ritual Purification In a message dated 1/15/99 6:46:45 AM !!!First Boot!!!, jlamadoo@one.net writes: << In an act of ritual purification, I've decided to cleanse my library of CDs that suck. >> Jim- I can't remember ever laughing so long and so hard over a post this early in the morning. Thank you, I needed that! =) Love, Susan C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:23:45 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Ross Subject: rap,JM, spelling Rap has had many names and places previously. 'Talking blues' is one of the earlier forms, which has a white version in Alice's Restaurant. But look to West Africa and the jalibas (griots) for earlier black origins. Kora players such as my teacher Nyama Suso of Gambia sing portions and speak others, often invoking history for the purposes of current events. In Niger I saw griots with considerable political sway get up at big public gatherings and fearlessly badmouth the govt - - through music, of course. I'm guessing that the troubadors and minnesaengers also had such sway in the European courts. . . and in the marketplace. Similarly maybe the epic singers from Homer on down to the ones Gurdjieff witnessed as a boy. See Lord's Singer of Tales. The common thread is that words in music can persuade as those merely spoken or written seldom can. fear of spelling? I'll make it up: orthographobia. Just read the SF Examiner's piece on JM, which y'all have probably hashed through already. She is adept, nor is the interviewer a slouch. I still think she needs to do a heap of homework before essaying jazz. Takes more than living in LA to fry out the Nordic. tr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:22:46 EST From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: The sweets we like In a message dated 1/15/99 6:53:49 AM !!!First Boot!!!, jlamadoo@one.net writes: << What's the gay perspective on this JMDL/chocolate question? -- >> Ok, Jim, I'm STILL laughin'! So where do you do your next stand-up gig? =) Love, Susan C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:37:35 EST From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Re: interpret-Passion Play In a message dated 99-01-14 09:51:42 EST, you write: Marilyn said<< The lyrics go... Climb down, climb down he says to me From the middle of unrest they think his LIGHT is squandered But, he sees a stray in the wilderness And I see how far I've wandered.... Now, who's light do "they" think is squandered Zaccehus or Christ's? Obviously Joni relates to the fact that she is not a perfect person in the context of the duality of the song. (Excuse me for saying "love"--when these songs are playing the pour from my head but in the absence of the sound--I forget some words.) l always took the "light" to be Christ's light or a step further--all that is good, self-less, and sacrificing on someone else's behalf. If somebody loved Joni in that way perhaps another person would think the "light was squandered" on her (far- fetched in my mind). The ecstasy to me is that kind of light, love, selflessness The misery is the uphappiness, suffering, damage, etc. The apathy is the way that we stop caring about all that The tradegy is the death--Christ's or the loss of things. As one added note--from a passion play point of view--Christ's death albeit a tragedy, was really a blessing. From his death, comes life eternal. What does that say in the context of big business, nukes, and "when all the slaves are free"? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:47:02 EST From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira Heyday and a Highway (Warning: Rambling) In a message dated 99-01-14 22:59:28 EST, you write: << n a message dated 1/14/99 9:10:17 PM Central Standard Time, DKasc13293@aol.com writes: << Doing my normal editing, avoiding "Furry", because I believe it makes men hate themselves. >> And Bob M. Writes: << Why do you believe this? I've listened to Furry a zillion times and never experienced this feeling...>> I also have never gotten that type of message out of that song--I'm curious to know your answer on this one, too. Michele ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 10:56:27 EST From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: rap on rap (NJC) In a message dated 1/14/99 9:04:52 PM !!!First Boot!!!, IVPAUL42 writes: << But I always wanted to sing "I'll Know" and "Your Eyes are the Eyes of a Woman in Love" in a duet with whoever they had Jean Simmons lip-synching for in "Guys and Dolls." >> Yeah! That's another one of my and David's faves...and parts we would love to play. Did Brando do his own singing? As archetypes go (or is it typecasting?) - I am the "good girl" and he is the "charming bad boy". =) Susan C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:02:17 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: Cobain/ Hippie (NJC)- RUSH At 10:06 AM 1/15/99 EST, you wrote: > >Were you really kidding? There are a lot of people who really feel kinda like >that! One is my 18-year old son. He has learned alot from that band's >intellectual and global focus...being from Canada, they're big Joni fans, too. > I have always followed RUSH. They are a real "must see" in concert. Neil Peart is a magician with the drums, Geddy Lee is superb with the bass and Alex Lifeson weaves with the guitar (tho I do think he's a bit stuck on himself). I'm hoping they will tour this year. On my list they are right up there with YES. Heather NP: RUSH - Different Stages - Live Roll The Bones (Chicago World Amphitheater) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:17:41 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: interpret-Passion Play - ---------- > From: MHart16164@aol.com > To: artwear@ncweb.com > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: interpret-Passion Play > Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 10:37 AM > > In a message dated 99-01-14 09:51:42 EST, you write: > > The ecstasy to me is that kind of light, love, selflessness > The misery is the uphappiness, suffering, damage, etc. > The apathy is the way that we stop caring about all that > The tradegy is the death--Christ's or the loss of things. > > As one added note--from a passion play point of view--Christ's death albeit a > tragedy, was really a blessing. From his death, comes life eternal. What > does that say in the context of big business, nukes, and "when all the slaves > are free"? Please don't think I was snipping your head off with Light instead of love. I like your interpretations. I also wanted to make the point about the tragedy becoming a blessing- thank you! Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:19:23 -0500 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Re[2]: rap on rap (NJC) Drewdix@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 1/14/99 1:30:14 PM, guitarzan@saber.net writes: ><out Meredeth Wilson's "The Music Man", (1962) the part where all the >salesmen are on the train. >> >Very creative idea- love it. And when done well, that is agreat number...it .opens the show. ."CASH for the merchandise, CASH for the tintype, CASH for the noggins-and-the- >pickins-and-the-firkins. I've got my own spin on this. Remember that "West-Side Story" is "Romeo and Juliet" as a musical in 50's New York? I'd love to see somebody do a hip-hop version of "The Pirates Of Penzance"! John~ I'm *not* kidding. NP "First F**k" Fleshf**kers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:42:09 EST From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: RUSH (NJC) Heather- That is soooo cool! John (my son) is a huge fan of Rush and YES, also! If you frequent any of their fan forums, you no doubt will see his postings there (RedSectorJ and AnalogDEW@aol.com are his screen names). He was able to meet some of the members of Yes at an in-store appearance last year (he caught them live at the Universal Amphitheatre in L.A.). We live in Morro Bay (12 miles north of San Luis Obispo, Ca. where the "Keys To Ascension" concert was recorded). I thought I had read or heard somewhere that this is where Jon Anderson lives. Do you know anything about that?(Listers?) Cheers, Susan C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 12:59:58 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: For the Roses/Ludwig's Tune In a message dated 1/15/99 8:50:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, RMuRocks@aol.com writes: << Luke, what about "Judgment of the Moon &Stars? That's the one that jumped out at me right off the bat... >> Bob, I wouldn't say "Ludwig's Tune" jumped out at me right off the bat. That was "You Turn Me On." In fact, "Judgment" was probably the last song on FTR that I learned to appreciate, partly because it was one of the few from FTR that she did NOT perform when I saw her in concert in '73. But I think "Ludwig's Tune" is the perfect song to end FTR because it is the culmination of both her lyrical insight and piano artistry. After 25 years, it is NOW the song that I think distinguishes FTR. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:03:48 EST From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: For the Roses/Ludwig's Tune In a message dated 1/15/99 11:59:58 AM Central Standard Time, IVPAUL42 writes: << I wouldn't say "Ludwig's Tune" jumped out at me right off the bat. That was "You Turn Me On." In fact, "Judgment" was probably the last song on FTR that I learned to appreciate, partly because it was one of the few from FTR that she did NOT perform when I saw her in concert in '73. But I think "Ludwig's Tune" is the perfect song to end FTR because it is the culmination of both her lyrical insight and piano artistry. After 25 years, it is NOW the song that I think distinguishes FTR. Paul I >> Paul, That's a cool observation - the first time I heard FTR was post-Hejira so I guess I heard the record in a different light... Bob M. NP: Elvis C., "Less Than Zero" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:16:03 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Guys on Dolls (NJC) In a message dated 1/15/99 10:56:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, Dreamzvill writes: << << But I always wanted to sing "I'll Know" and "Your Eyes are the Eyes of a Woman in Love" in a duet with whoever they had Jean Simmons lip-synching for in "Guys and Dolls." >> Yeah! That's another one of my and David's faves...and parts we would love to play. Did Brando do his own singing? >> Yes, that was Brando's singing, just like Clint Eastwood's bad singing in "Paint Your Wagon." You've probably heard that Frank Sinatra lobbied heavily to play the role of Sky Masterson instead of Nathan Detroit, but I think the casting worked out just fine. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:50:08 EST From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: Guys on Dolls (NJC) In a message dated 1/15/99 6:16:03 PM !!!First Boot!!!, IVPAUL42 writes: << Yes, that was Brando's singing, just like Clint Eastwood's bad singing in "Paint Your Wagon." >> Yes, I remember....some song about a tree...perhaps Clint should stick to tickling the ivories when it comes to music...:) <> In a stage production here in Calif., David's mother (a regionally famous actress in decades past) played the part of __?__ - Nathan Detroit's doll; I heard she was great. And - in response to John's post on West Side Story - I think a new version would really *work*!! The big question is: If they are so darn enjoyable, why don't they make musicals anymore??? Singin' and dancin', Susan C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 13:57:22 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Guys on Dolls (NJC) In a message dated 1/15/99 1:50:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, Dreamzvill writes: << << Yes, that was Brando's singing, just like Clint Eastwood's bad singing in "Paint Your Wagon." >> Yes, I remember....some song about a tree...perhaps Clint should stick to tickling the ivories when it comes to music...:)>> "I talk to the trees, but they don't listen to me. I talk to the stars, but they never hear me." Probably the BEST song from the whole musical and they let Clint ruin it. <> In a stage production here in Calif., David's mother (a regionally famous actress in decades past) played the part of __?__ - Nathan Detroit's doll; I heard she was great. >> That would be Adelaide. My sister played Adelaide in their high school production many moons ago. My sinuses are acting up just thinking about it. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:08:32 EST From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: Guys on Dolls (NJC) In a message dated 1/15/99 6:59:49 PM !!!First Boot!!!, IVPAUL42@aol.com writes: << That would be Adelaide. My sister played Adelaide in their high school production many moons ago. My sinuses are acting up just thinking about it. >> LOL!!!! Between you and Jim H., I'm really getting some great laughs today. Also, there was a *great* joke on Joke-Of-The-Day... I literally laughed so hard I was cryin'. I would post it here, but it had religious figures as the main characters, and I might be called a blasphemer! =) Susan C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:17:14 -0500 (EST) From: David Wright Subject: Harp jokes (NJC) Mariana wrote: > speaking of Kurt's sense of humor, listen to him talk on the > Unplugged album. I always crack up when he says, "What are they tuning, > a harp? we're supposed to be this big rich rock band, we should have > some extra guitars." Reminds me of some of my favorite musical jokes.... Q. How long does a harp stay in tune? A. 20 minutes, or until someone opens a door. Q. Why are harps like elderly parents? A. Both are unforgiving and hard to get in and out of cars. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:34:54 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: Ritual Purification (REM) In a message dated 1/15/99 1:46:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, jlamadoo@one.net writes: > My collection of CDs that suck is rounded out with 3 R.E.M. titles: "Out > of Time", "Monster", and "New Adventures in Hi-Fi". What can I say? I > loved their "Automatic For the People" and I just kept giving them one > more chance. No more. They are out of here. > -- Monster is one of my favorite REM albums. I don't think I've ever read a review of it nor spoken with anyone about it. The lyrics are deeply personal, at times very painful. It is raw. I did read in an interview with Courtney Love where she said that Crush With Eyeliner was written about her. It's hard for me to say why I love this band. I have such difficulty articulating why I like or do not like music. It's so much emotional for me. If it tugs at me and keeps me feeling and reacting, I usually think it's good, that it's served its purpose. I'd be interested to know why you think the REM CDs "suck". I won't jump all over you about it because I can't really tell you why to me, they don't suck. I intend to keep my copies and allow them to do whatever it is they're doing which makes me continue to love this band. She's a sad tomato She's three miles of bad road (Crush With Eyeliner - REM) Gina NP: Cowboy Junkies: Black Eyed Man ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:59:18 -0600 From: evian Subject: Armestead Maupin (NJC) Hi listers, Just thought I would tell all the Armestead Maupin fans on the list that he will be online at Borders.com tonight at 10:pm Eastern time. Happy Friday! Evian np: "Radioactive" by the Firm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:15:11 -0500 From: Debra Kaufman Subject: Re: weighing in >Am I the only one who remembers (some of) the little song that went with >this Bible story? > >Zaccheus was a wee little man, >A wee little man was he - >He climbed up in a sycamore tree, >for the Lord he wanted to see... > >Gee whiz, the stuff we remember... > >Bob M., celebrating both my 15th anniversary & "Tom Waits Day" Bob, I quoted that song to the jmdl many moons ago. I remember it well, along with "We are climbing Jacob's ladder." BTW, I'm a T Waits fan, what is Tom Waits Day? Do tell! It's a Beautiful Day, yes! a VERY good band. There were so many good bands then and good songwriters too. That's one thing I think is sorely missed. (Though Sarah McLaughlin is good; I mean, there are a few!) I wish more of the younger generation could hear some of the really good bands. (Many never made it to CD.) The 50s and 60s were so musically happening--what with the fusion of R&B, country, soul, black & white music swirling together (Ray Charles at his best, and Van Morrison continuing it), the Brits' spin on all this--that pop music in the next decades seems more a footnote than a new chapter. Not a whole lot you can call really new, a new sound the way the Beatles and other Brits were. That is, a new sound that is musical, not just rebellious loud chords and screaming for the hell of it like punk, say, or or repetetive bass and bad poetry as in rap. Now world music, which is again a kind of fusion, really excites me. Again, this was introduced in the 60s and 70s too, though Paul Simon gave it a big wonderful kick with "Graceland." OK, enough already! Ciao, DK ******************************************************************* "... Be quite still and solitary. The world will freely offer itself to you to be unmasked, it has no choice, it will roll in ecstasy at your feet." Franz Kafka +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:57:33 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: The sweets we like i like to suck on some belgian chocolate occasionally and I like joni. Want to make something of it? Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > I agree that chocolate has a place on the List. But only chocolate > truffles from Godiva, preferably the ones with chocolate so dark and > bitter that it's almost like eating coffee grounds. Golly what good > stuff. > > What's the gay perspective on this JMDL/chocolate question? > -- > All the best, > Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:14:00 EST From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Re: The sweets we like Your in house gay gourmand insists on Valhrona brand chocolate only. Jean- Gorges uses this to create the ultimate chocolate cake. It's the size of a cupcake, served warm at the table with some vanilla ice cream. You spoon into it's moist and crumbly top and discover an inner "lava" center of runny chocolate. Awesome. See David Rosengarten's show on the Food Network for the easy recipe. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 19:16:52 EST From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: weighing in In a message dated 1/15/99 4:14:52 PM Central Standard Time, djk@math.duke.edu writes: << BTW, I'm a T Waits fan, what is Tom Waits Day? Do tell! >> Debra, It was a self-declared day where I played his music all day at work. Actually what I did was play all my CD's in alphabetical order by artist, so I had two or three Joni days, two Springsteen days, a couple of Elvis Costello days, and coming up - a couple of XTC days. The other day, my son's friend came in the house and said "Wow! Look at all those CD's!" My son (12 yrs.) says, "yeah, and let me show you something - all these (holding his hands from STAS to TTT) are all Joni Mitchell!! :^) Bob M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:46:04 -0800 From: Mark-n-Travis Subject: Re: For the Roses/Ludwig's Tune RMuRocks@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 1/15/99 11:59:58 AM Central Standard Time, IVPAUL42 writes: > > << I wouldn't say "Ludwig's Tune" jumped out at me right off the bat. That > was "You Turn Me On." In fact, "Judgment" was probably the last song on FTR > that I learned to appreciate, partly because it was one of the few from FTR > that she did NOT perform when I saw her in concert in '73. > But I think "Ludwig's Tune" is the perfect song to end FTR because it is > the culmination of both her lyrical insight and piano artistry. After 25 > years, it is NOW the song that I think distinguishes FTR. > Paul I >> > > Paul, > > That's a cool observation - the first time I heard FTR was post-Hejira so I > guess I heard the record in a different light... > > Bob M. When I first heard 'For the Roses' I was already very familiar with 'Miles of Aisles'. So my favorites were 'Woman of Heart & Mind' and 'Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire' which were back to back on my favorite side of the four (vinyl) sides of MoA (They were preceded by Cactus Tree and followed by A Case of You & Blue - five of Joni's finest & most emotional songs). I'll never forget when I bought 'For the Roses'. One of my roommates (male) looked at the photo of Joni on the inside & said 'She's got a fat ass.' Another friend (female) grabbed the album cover & said 'She hasn't got a fat ass, she's got fine ass!' Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:52:52 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Car On A Hill It's possible I was hallucinating, but I heard Car On A Hill in my bank today. There must be some folks with good taste programming background music these days. - -Fred NPIMH (now playing in my head) - "This House Is Empty Now" by Burt Bacharach and Elvis Costello ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:58:38 -0800 From: Mark-n-Travis Subject: Re: NJC: Ritual Purification (REM) Ginamu@aol.com wrote: > > Monster is one of my favorite REM albums. I don't think I've ever read a > review of it nor spoken with anyone about it. I intend to keep my copies and allow them to do whatever it is > they're doing which makes me continue to love this band. I think 'Automatic for the People' & 'Green' are both classics. I'm not sure I can tell you why either. Some of what I feel about 'Automatic for the People' comes from what was going on in my life at the time I bought it. Along with 'Turbulent Indigo' it's one I don't listen to much now although I think both are brilliant. 'Green' has some amazing songs on it, in particular 'The Wrong Child' which turns on the waterworks for me. I also love 'You Are the Everything' - beautiful words and music. I need to listen to 'Monster' a few more times as I never gave it a fair chance & I have yet to get 'New Adventures in Hi-Fi' and 'Up'. I do thinkR.E.M. is one of the best bands of the 90s and will be considered one of the all-time best. > > NP: Cowboy Junkies: Black Eyed Man Jim L'Hommedieu & I are both Cowboy Junkies junkies. Glad to see this pop up on somebody's NP. It's one of my favorites. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:47:46 EST From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Re: Cobain/ Hippie In a message dated 1/15/99 4:36:28 AM, refab@neptune.ConnectI.com wrote: >Mariana said:> >You seem to be stuck on this point Mariana so I'll just tell you outright. Yes. > I am bitter >because RUSH is not the most popular band in the world, and despite their status >as the most >important band in the world they consistantly get unfavorable reviews. There, >I said it. Are you > >happy? Are you happy that you have ripped my warped and tortured soul naked before >all? > thrilled. i am stuck on that point because that seemed to be the basis of your entire argument: nirvana was talentless and only achieved success because of slick production and media and by achieving that success, broke the music industry, proving any no-talent idiot can crank up an amp and become rich over night. you offer no back-up points and just continually smash one of the best bands of the 90s. > > >Now you and your hipster friends can laugh at me, then go on with your happy and >perfect lives, basking in the glow of success. I guess I'll just get me a shopping cart and do >a slow burn. > as kurt cobain wrote in his infamous suicide note (paraphrasing Neil Young, i do b'lieve): it is better to burn out than fade away. as Courtney Love sings in "Reasons To Be Beautiful: it is better to RISE than fade away. > >The stage goes black as the spotlight beams down on the tragic character, gradually >thinning till > >he is erased. > > > >Just Kidding :-) > > > >Mariana. I think I've said all I have to say on this subject. I' pretty sure >that I have covered > >the bases. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. i guess so. >It may be helpful information for you to know that I come from a family of hearty >debaters. One > >could say we are mast...er um. We enjoy healthy debate around the dinner table. > It's fun, it > >hones...uh > >enhances our thinking skills. > oh well. whatever. nevermind. - -mariana NP: Breeders, -Pod- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 00:39:12 -0500 From: patrick leader Subject: RE: Black Wings (vljc) hi folks, i guess i'm back heather wrote >the dancers who represent geometric shapes. the choreography and costuming in 'black wings' refer to a piece called 'triadic ballet' that was done around 1923. the costumes (the most important element, of course) were done by oskar schlemmer. i think most dancers and probably most visual artists have these images in their head. bette midler used the concept very directly in her 1982 shows, (DeTour) and in the 83 HBO special 'art or bust' (the third act, when she sings 'broken bicycles', 'everyone's gone to the moon', and 'here comes the flood') a web search on 'triadic ballet' will take you to original photos. patrick np - siberry - a day in the life - (actually just 'coming up for air' and 'hain't it funny') ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 01:52:00 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: Ritual Purification (REM) In a message dated 1/15/99 9:01:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, mark-n- travis@worldnet.att.net writes: > I do thinkR.E.M. is one of the best bands of the 90s > and will be considered one of the all-time best. > Mark, I think they are already considered to be one of the best bands of all time (IMO they are) and I think they've been around since the late 70's, if I remember correctly. Gina NP: "You belong among the wild flowers..." - Tom Petty on the radio ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 02:00:01 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: Ritual Purification (REM) In a message dated 1/16/99 1:52:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ginamu writes: > I think they are already considered to be one of the best bands of all time ( > IMO they are) and I think they've been around since the late 70's, if I > remember correctly. > > I have to correct myself: the first single, Radio Free Europe/Sitting Still was released in 1981. Sorry for the extra post. Gina ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:12:33 -0800 (PST) From: Zapuppy@webtv.net (Penny Gibbons) Subject: More Passion Play The discussion on Passion Play interpretations has continued behind the scenes from the list for a couple of days now, I'd like to share another interpret. on the elements that we're still up in the air on. Some have presented Exxon blue as an end times ecological condition with seas horribly polluted, and radiation rose as the haze effect the earth would go through after a nucleur war. I could buy that, but I didn't see how it fit with the bulk of the main theme of the song. Let me try this scenerio out to the whole list. First, this was obviously written from the Bible, mainly from Luke. The "enter the multitudes" was keeping with Scripture in making it clear Jesus would be acknowleged as Lord by all....every knee shall bow. With capitalizing the "E" in Exxon blue I think Joni was messing with our heads a wee bit. If we interpret it rather as a way for her to express "exonerate" (to justify, remove blame) and blue the dark color the sky turned for three hours mid-day while Christ was hanging on the Cross, just prior to Him giving up His spirit, to pay for the entire world's sin's .....that would fit the rest of the theme. And rose, in radiation rose, becomes a verb signifying His resurrection from the dead. In discribing the appearance of Jesus at both the transfiguration and also John"s of Him in Rev , He's discribed as brilliant, radiant, glowing. If we interpret the three lines this way they fit in perfectly with the rest of the song. That Joni, she's really a master of lyrics isn't she! Penny ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #28 ************************* There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to info-jonifest1999@jmdl.com for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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