From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #26 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, January 15 1999 Volume 04 : Number 026 The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Offensive Bob =) [MHart16164@aol.com] Re: Cobain/Hippo ["John Villasana" ] rap on rap (NJC) [Randy Remote ] Re: rap on rap (NJC) [Drewdix@aol.com] Re: Who invented Rap ["John Villasana" ] Lehrer (NJC) [Thomas Ross ] Re[2]: (NJC) alternative, was Cobain [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Leaving the Dead with a smile NJC ["John Villasana" ] Re: Rap was invented by a white guy (NJC) ["M & C Urbanski" (NJC) <--- [David Wright ] Re: Dead [catman ] Re: Mo Hippie Metal Shit/rap (NJC) [catman ] Re: Re: (NJC) alternative, was Cobain [Marilune@aol.com] Re: All Apologies (NJC) [Marilune@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V4 #21 [donna ] Re: Mo Hippie Metal Shit/rap (NJC) [Mark-n-Travis ] joni fan from "down under" says hi to jmdl ["Angela Takats" ] Re: The sweets we like ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Some joni vs. NJC- (Never Any Joni Content) [MP123A321@aol.com] Re: NJC: Ritual Purification [IVPAUL42@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:10:32 EST From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Re: Offensive Bob =) In a message dated 99-01-14 11:13:00 EST, you write: << Bob M. said: ..."sorry to be so offensive this early in the day..." Bob! No apologies necessary! As a matter of fact, we will "hold *you* to it"!!! Thanks for the laugh!!!! =) Cheers, Susan C. >> I second that one, Susan!--I laughed outloud at this one. Thanks for keepin the "hole" thing light!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:17:12 -0600 From: "John Villasana" Subject: Re: Cobain/Hippo Bob M. said: That's good to hear. I have noticed a decline in the music scene here and in Shreveport La. (another town I am intimately associated with). Both of these towns are growing economicly. What I have personally witnessed is a growing attitude that working hard to make good music is uncool, and that somehow great music happens automaticly. As an artist who wants very badly to create solid work with a high standard, I find this disapointing. Kakki said: <(Why doesn't anyone mention Stone Temple Pilots, too?)> I don't think they were from Seatle. But now that you mention it :-)... I thought these guys were great. I can't say that I related to it much, but the melodies and song structures were very balanced, and catchy. The arrangesments were simple but strong. I thought that they were somewhat of a throwback stylisticly, except the singer was a baritone, which is definitely a 90's thing. Michael Paz said: YEAH! But seriously, whats wrong with a little debate, a little dialectic, perhaps a rhetoric of ascent? I apologize if my views have been offensive to some. I promise it was never personal. I guess I like a little healthy debate every now and then. It gives me an opportunity to hone my own perceptions and my ability to express them. I guess that makes me sort of an egghead. :-) Don Rowe said: FUN!? DANCE?! But seriously, thats why I like Hejira so much. Because it's fun and you can dance to it. And Debussy man, ya know, he makes me wanna twist the night away. But don't get me wrong, I have a very serious, cerebral side too. I like to sip on cognac and brood to the B-52's. jOhn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:26:16 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: rap on rap (NJC) Rap's dirty little secret is that it was invented by white people! Check out Meredeth Wilson's "The Music Man", (1962) the part where all the salesmen are on the train. It's all right there. :}) Wait, I take it all back. Check out Cab Callaway doing "Minnie the Moocher" in the 1930's! Don Rowe wrote: > Marilyn writes ... > >John Lennon invented rap with "Give Peace A Chance" > >Marilyn > > Wait a minute ... I could have sworn that Blondie invented rap ... or > maybe it was Aerosmith. ;-) > > Don Rowe > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:44:21 EST From: Drewdix@aol.com Subject: Re: rap on rap (NJC) In a message dated 1/14/99 1:30:14 PM, guitarzan@saber.net writes: <> Very creative idea- love it. And when done well, that is agreat number...it opens the show. "CASH for the merchandise, CASH for the tintype, CASH for the noggins-and-the- pickins-and-the-firkins. CASH for the hog's head, cask-and-demijohn -" "Look- whaddya talk, whaddya talk, whaddya talk, where-do-you-get-it? whaddya talk, whaddya talk, whaddya talk, where-do-you-get-it?" "Well, it's the Model-T Ford made the troouble, made the people wanna-go- wanna-git-wanna-git-up-and-go! 7-8-9-10-12-14-22-23 miles to the County Seat" "Whaddya talk, whaddya talk, whaddya talk, where-do-you-get-it" "Well you can talk all you want to, but it's DIFFERENT than it was!" "NO IT AIN'T! NO IT AIN'T! but you GOTTA know the TERRITORY!" ' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:47:58 -0600 From: "John Villasana" Subject: Re: Who invented Rap Rap wasn't invented by John Lennon or urban blacks. It was invented by the early rural square dance bands. It all happened one night when the singer got sick. Then Joe the auctioneer said, "I'll sing!" and the rest is history. jOhn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:49:49 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Ross Subject: Lehrer (NJC) Oh yes I memorized a slew of his stuff as a kid. Great oldstyle wordsmith and very funny. It was I who stepped on your dress, lalala the skirts all came off I confess, lalala revealing for all of the others to see just what it was that endeared you to me. . . ahhh. tr ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`). (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (il).-'' (li).' ((!.-' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:49:45 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: (NJC) alternative, was Cobain John shared: <> And then there was the time The Grateful Dead Kennedys played "My Sharona" - it lasted 22 minutes!! ;^) Bob M. NP: TW, "New Coat of Paint" (Fishin' for a good time starts with throwin' in your line...) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:54:39 -0600 From: "John Villasana" Subject: Re: Leaving the Dead with a smile NJC Gene Mock said: I have to laugh at this one. (Don't get me wrong, I love the Dead). the last time I went to a Dead concert my heart went into a serious dysrythmia and I had to drive myself and two of my seriously high friends to a hospital. jOhn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:54:04 -0500 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Re: Re[2]: (NJC) alternative, was Cobain At 01:49 PM 1/14/99 -0500, Bob M wrote: > And then there was the time The Grateful Dead Kennedys played "My > Sharona" - it lasted 22 minutes!! ;^) Oh that must be the single edit! :-D NP "Sly Feel" John Hartford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:03:47 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Then and Now (NJC) In a message dated 1/14/99 7:50:55 AM, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com wrote: > While I totally agree with you, I think one major difference is the > accessability to the good stuff. I remember, like Kakki also pointed > out, that 60's "Top 40" radio would mix syrupy ballads & instrumentals > with heavy metal, The Supremes with The Beatles. Oh, absolutely, I agree. Radio has drastically changed, record labels have drastically changed; it's all bottom line, faceless corporate conglomerates now. But human creative spirit being what it is, there will always be some good music being made, even though finding it is hard work ... at the very least, gotta keep punching that scan button on the car radio! All I meant to say was that no era's artists are inherently less or more creative than another's. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:43:58 EST From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: rap on rap (NJC) Drew.... <> ' Pleeeaasseee..... My husband came from a musical-theatrical family and can recite it verbatim, too! OK, OK, I have to admit, I really love it. He turned me on to "The Music Man", and we decided we wanted to try out for the parts of Marian and Professor Hill next time they have auditions for it. =) He was also Billy Bigelow in a local production of "Carousel" - (ain't nothin' cooler than hearing him sing "If I Loved You"!) Cheers, Susan C. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:20:54 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Rap was invented by a white guy (NJC) In a message dated 1/14/99 11:25:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, mwyarbro@zzapp.org writes: << John Lennon definitely did not invent rap. The black DJs in the ghettos of New York who *did* invent rap weren't listening to Lennon and thinking "Hey man, we can do that shit." >> If those black DJs were in their 30s at the time, then they almost certainly heard "Give Peace A Chance" a hundred times, and maybe participated in some antiwar protests as well. It's not necessary for them to have had a conscious awareness of where they heard the musical style, unless you are saying that what Lennon did wasn't "rap" because he didn't play records backward on the turntable. How ironic! Paul I "I buried Paul" or was it "Cranberry sauce"? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:50:38 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Tom Lehrer Content (NJC) In a message dated 1/14/99 12:51:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, dgrowe@hotmail.com writes: << Don Rowe (now humming "The Vatican Rag" in anticipation of John Paul's visit to St. Louis later this month) >> "First you get down on your knees, fiddle with your rosaries, bow your head in great respect and genuflect, genuflect, genuflect." And the one I used to sing when I was 12 -- POLLUTION If you visit American city, You will find it very pretty. Just two things of which you must beware: Don't drink the water and don't breathe the air! Pollution, pollution! They got smog and sewage and mud. Turn on your tap And get hot and cold running crud! See the halibuts and the sturgeons Being wiped out by detergeons. Fish gotta swim and birds gotta fly, But they don't last long if they try. Pollution, pollution! You can use the latest toothpaste, And then rinse your mouth With industrial waste. Just go out for a breath of air And you'll be ready for Medicare. The city streets are really quite a thrill - If the hoods don't get you, the monoxide will. Pollution, pollution! Wear a gas mask and a veil. Then you can breathe, Long as you don't inhale! Lots of things there that you can drink, But stay away from the kitchen sink! The breakfast garbage that you throw into the Bay They drink at lunch in San Jose. So go to the city, See the crazy people there. Like lambs to the slaughter, They're drinking the water And breathing [cough] the air! And my favorite: "First we got the bomb and that was good cause we love peace and motherhood. Then Russia got the bomb, but that's OK cause we maintain the balance of power that way. Who's next? Then France got the bomb but don't you grieve cause they're on our side, I believe." Then I could not remember the next line, so I found A website Wasted on Tom Lehrer http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/5758/frindex.htm Who says Bob Dylan is the greatest American lyricist? I'd vote for Tom Lehrer! Here is the introduction and lyrics for "Who's Next?" One of the big news items of the past year concerned the fact that China, which we call Red China, exploded a nuclear bomb, which we called a device. Then Indonesia announced that it was gonna have one soon, and proliferation became the word of the day. Here's a song about that: First we got the bomb and that was good, 'Cause we love peace and motherhood. Then Russia got the bomb, but that's O.K., 'Cause the balance of power's maintained that way! Who's next? France got the bomb, but don't you grieve, 'Cause they're on our side, I believe. China got the bomb, but have no fears; They can't wipe us out for at least five years! Who's next? Then Indonesia claimed that they Were gonna get one any day. South Africa wants two, that's right: One for the black and one for the white! Who's next? Egypt's gonna get one, too, Just to use on you know who. So Israel's getting tense, Wants one in self defense. "The Lord's our shepherd," says the psalm, But just in case, we better get a bomb! Who's next? Luxembourg is next to go And, who knows, maybe Monaco. We'll try to stay serene and calm When Alabama gets the bomb! Who's next, who's next, who's next? Who's next? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:55:45 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Leaving the Dead with a smile NJC In a message dated 1/14/99 1:56:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, refab@neptune.ConnectI.com writes: << I have to laugh at this one. (Don't get me wrong, I love the Dead). the last time I went to a Dead concert my heart went into a serious dysrythmia and I had to drive myself and two of my seriously high friends to a hospital. jOhn >> Smiling all the way? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:04:52 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: rap on rap (NJC) In a message dated 1/14/99 2:49:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, Dreamzvill@aol.com writes: << He was also Billy Bigelow in a local production of "Carousel" - (ain't nothin' cooler than hearing him sing "If I Loved You"!) >> Carousel is one of my top 5 musicals, too, and part of the reason is that song, "Soliloquy" and "June is Bustin'Out All Over," which I suppose is the sequel to "It's May" from Camelot! But I always wanted to sing "I'll Know" and "Your Eyes are the Eyes of a Woman in Love" in a duet with whoever they had Jean Simmons lip-synching for in "Guys and Dolls." Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:04:39 -0500 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Alternative Rock vs Classic Rock (SJC) Michael Paz wrote: <<....U2 won an award for "best alternative band" or some such nonsense....>> Apart from the occasional regurgitation of *Pride In The Name Of Love* on classic rock radio, the only stations I hear play U2 songs like *I Will Follow*, *New Year's Day*, *Desire*, and *Mysterious Ways* on a regular basis are the alternative stations. U2 departed classic rock with *Achtung Baby* (my most favorite), won a Grammy for best alternative album with *Zooropa* (my least favorite), and explored disco, industrial and rap on *Pop* (just LOVE *Miami*). Alternative rock is a refreshing answer to classic rock IMHO. While I appreciate the oldies but goodies I don't want to be stuck in the '60s & '70s like most of my friends who are no fun any more! They dislike '80s & '90s rock the way my parents disliked Elvis and the Beetles. The inability to enjoy current music is the first sign of senility! It was the classic rock mentality that alienated Joni fans and confined her airplay to *Big Yellow Taxi* and *Help Me.* Wouldn't that make *Hejira* one of the first alternative albums? E.T. NP: Nine Inch Nails *The Downward Spiral* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:37:04 -0500 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: (NJCA) Jethro Tull Grammy Kakki wrote: >>Was that the year (1987, I think) he got the Grammy for "Crest of a Knave"? >>I didn't realize it was in the heavy metal category. What was up with THAT?" Paz wrote: >Kakki and Don- I saw that! I was screaming when i heard that. Yeah, me too. I remember an interview Ian Anderson did when "Catfish Rising" came out. The quote was something like: "There's an incredible satisfaction knowing that you're the featured acoustic instrumentalist in a Grammy wining *heavy metal* band!" John~ NP "Keep Talking" Pink Floyd ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:17:32 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Rap was invented by a white guy (NJC) - ---------- > From: IVPAUL42@aol.com > To: mwyarbro@zzapp.org; joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Rap was invented by a white guy (NJC) > Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 3:20 PM > > In a message dated 1/14/99 11:25:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, > mwyarbro@zzapp.org writes: > > << John Lennon definitely did not invent rap. The black DJs > in the ghettos of New York who *did* invent rap weren't listening > to Lennon and thinking "Hey man, we can do that shit." >> > > If those black DJs were in their 30s at the time, then they almost certainly > heard "Give Peace A Chance" a hundred times, and maybe participated in some > antiwar protests as well. It's not necessary for them to have had a conscious > awareness of where they heard the musical style, unless you are saying that > what Lennon did wasn't "rap" because he didn't play records backward on the > turntable. > How ironic! > Paul I > "I buried Paul" or was it "Cranberry sauce"? Paul come on don't you know your Beatles! The first song with backward stuff was "Tomorrow never knows" on Revolver! So you see Lennon had all the stuff already set up for rap! number 9....number 9....number 9...number 9 Loving this whole line of discussion! Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:46:49 -0000 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Chieftains record reviewed I saw a review today in Mojo of The Chiefains new album with Joni and others. It said Joni's Magdelane Launderies is stunning and the best track on it. The lads get jigy with Mary Chapin Carpenter, Bonnie Raitt, Sinead O'Connor and the Corrs on the same record. Philip NP Undertones - Teenage Kicks (on the radio) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:43:55 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Then and Now (SJC - fairly lengthy) In a message dated 1/14/99 8:52:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: > > > Nowadays, markets are TOTALLY segmented and fractured. Except for > college radio and some creative NPR outlets, you're not going to hear > a country song followed by a rock and roll song followed by a rhythm and blues song We have the good fortune where I live (Western Massachusetts, Southern Vermont area) to have a GREAT commercial radio station that does just what you describe above: on any given programming day it is typical to hear XTC followed by Dwight Yokum followed by Howlin' Wolf followed by Tori Amos followed by John Coltrain. WRSI radio in Greenfield, Massachusetts was named by Rolling Stone as one of ten commercial radio stations in the country that "doesn't suck" (unfortunately put) - meaning that the station strives to bring new, varied and interesting music to the airwaves while also playing a good variety of older rock, jazz and blues, with some world music and reggae thrown in. In an age of "cookie cutter" programming in radio, we feel really blessed to have them in our community. Look them up on the web. The sound is the quality of am radio but I think it's worth a listen. I call or email them frequently to request that they play more Joni. In regular rotation they usually only play about 5 of her songs(YTMO, I'm A Radio, Coyote, Help Me, Free Man In Paris, Carrie) while playing many more by Van Morrison, The Band and Neil Young and Grateful Dead. They were somewhat slow on the draw with TTT, waiting a few weeks before its release to begin playing the first single. Their praise at first was somewhat cautious as well. They are now praising it highly, often referring to it as "The fine new album by Joni Mitchell". Is this because Joni is "controversial" ? The station plays so much "girlie guile" music, some of which is okay to pretty good, not much of it great. Gina NP: The Weight by the Band, on WRSI radio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:54:12 +1100 (EST) From: michaelb@coolgold.com.au (Michael) Subject: Spelling Police (NJC) Hi All I was wondering if there is a phobia name for being afraid of being caught out for incorrect spelling? (probably is). I bet it's a real pig to spell too :) Michael michaelb@coolgold.com.au http://www.coolgold.com.au/~michaelb/index.html Either we are alone in the universe ...........Or we're not............ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:14:33 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: Re[2]: Van Lyrics (NJC) At 09:36 AM 1/14/99 -0500, you wrote: > Bush is to Nirvana as > > Stone Temple Pilots is to ______________ > > A. It's A Beautiful Day > B. Phish > C. Pearl Jam > D. Hole > > Of course, the confusing part of the question is that people will get > Bush confused with Hole (sorry to be so offensive this early ;^D) > Well .... two in the Bush is worth one in the ....... oh, never mind. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:16:29 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: Mo Hippie Metal Shit/rap (NJC) At 06:44 AM 1/14/99 PST, you wrote: > >Wait a minute ... I could have sworn that Blondie invented rap ... or >maybe it was Aerosmith. ;-) > Blondie's song Rapture is the earliest kind of rap song I remember hearing. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:43:44 -0500 (EST) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Cobain ---> (NJC) <--- Don Rowe wrote: > Anyone with enough nerve to stand up in > the prevailing winds and say that there was nothing original going on > underneath the noisy digital overdrive and distortion of Nirvana can put > whatever he or she likes on their posts. How odd. I see no evidence that it requires any nerve to bash Nirvana (John's sentiments are common, in my experience....I'd even say they ARE the prevailing winds), and also no reason why Nirvana-bashers should be exempt from the normal rules governing discourse on this list, BTW. Now, how about a round of applause for Mariana! - --David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:48:17 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Dead Paul-at least you got what I was referring too! Although I didn't quite have necrophilia in mind-just that I know people who have died that i love. I have no idea who the other Dead are and have never heard them as far as I know. bw colin IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/14/99 8:05:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, > catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: > > << Pat wrote: > "I'd be interested to see a 'show of hands' to see how many of you who > love, > Joni also like the dead." > I'd gop as far as to say I actually love some of the dead. >> > > Colin, > Why does it sound like necrophilia when you say it? > ;.>) > Paul I > "Of course, you heard about the necrophiliac who fulfilled his boyhood dream > of becoming coroner." > -- Tom Lehrer, the great composer and singer of such great songs as > "Poisoning Pigeons In the Park" and "The Bomb," a precursor to Randy Newman's > "Political Science." - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:26:14 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Mo Hippie Metal Shit/rap (NJC) You are all wrong. ABBA were the first rappers. luvart@snet.net wrote: > At 06:44 AM 1/14/99 PST, you wrote: > > > >Wait a minute ... I could have sworn that Blondie invented rap ... or > >maybe it was Aerosmith. ;-) > > > Blondie's song Rapture is the earliest kind of rap song I remember hearing. > > Heather - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:51:54 EST From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Cobain/ Hippie In a message dated 1/14/99 3:22:19 AM, refab@neptune.ConnectI.com wrote: >Now thanks to Nirvana and the grunge scene, anybody who can afford a loud > >amp can pretend he is talented. Whats worse, the so called Hipsters have taken >over the scene with > >their flash and hipper than thou attitudes. As a result, the general poplution >has lost interest > >in music. Truly talented, hardworking musicians have lost their incentive to >work hard, since it > >doesn't matter how good you are anymore. As someone who loves music, this is >a tragic situation. as someone who loves music, i can tell you it's not. you say that Nirvana destroyed musical ambition...but i can tell you for a fact that they INSPIRED musical ambition. for every person who's gotten famous off Nirvana, i can show you a kid who picked up a guitar and started a band BECAUSE of Nirvana. and i can also tell you that it DOES matter how good you are. are you bitter because certain artists who you like are not popular? you may not like popular music, but until you open your mind to all the good, new, wonderful stuff being made, you cannot say that one band broke an entire industry. - -mariana NP: Offspring, -Smash- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:00:21 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: IABD (njc) All this talk of It's A Beautiful Day has prompted me to dig into my 20+ year old cassettes from my college days and come up with 4 of their albums: It's A Beautiful Day Marrying Maiden Live at Carnegie Hall (a far cry from Phil Ochs at the same venue, Bern) Quality Choice Stuff/Anytime Not too bad stuff And from a time when Joni only had 5 or 6 albums out herself :-) The only thing missing is the smoke filled dorm room (and the cotton mouth and the munchies) Oh well... Brian np: Hot Summer Day (amid the freezing rain here in South Jersey) === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:07:49 EST From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: (NJC) alternative, was Cobain In a message dated 1/14/99 4:32:06 PM, jml@amweaver.com wrote: >>I always dug Kurt's T-shirt that said: >> >>"Corporate Rock Whores" >> >>Loved his sense of humor! =) > >I also love the story of The Dead Kennedys performance at the BAMmies. I >think it was the BAMmies. It was definatley some kind of showcase around >1980/'81. Anyway, They come out in black pants and black button down shirts >with big "S"'s spray painted in green on the front of the shirts. They play >the first couple of bars of the song they're supposed to play on the show, >stop, pull skinny green ties from over their shoulders(turning the "S" into >"$") and play "My Sharona". ever hear how Kurt refuses to open for Guns N Roses because Axel Rose has said some racist things? i think it's pretty cool that Kurt did that because at the time, Nirvana was still just a small "garage" band. it would have been a big break for them. but Nirvana made their own breaks. and that's clear enough. speaking of Kurt's sense of humor, listen to him talk on the Unplugged album. I always crack up when he says, "What are they tuning, a harp? we're supposed to be this big rich rock band, we should have some extra guitars." see, even he saw the exploitation. - -mariana NP: Nirvana, -Nevermind- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:10:41 EST From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Re: All Apologies (NJC) In a message dated 1/14/99 5:52:04 PM, mwyarbro@zzapp.org wrote: >The written word has reared its inadequate head again, and I've placed >myself in the midst of a maelstrom of a misunderstanding. My sincere >apologies to all involved. I'll leave you all to pleasant discussion now. all we know is all we owe..... (k.c.) - -mariana ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:07:25 +0100 From: donna Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V4 #21 Did anyone catch the Joni interview in vibe magazine in december? The magazine was in my office and i just happen to thumb through it and found a wonderful interview with joni. Pretty cool stuff ... talkin' about how black people can relate to joni. check it out! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:56:48 -0800 From: Mark-n-Travis Subject: Re: Mo Hippie Metal Shit/rap (NJC) luvart@snet.net wrote: > > At 06:44 AM 1/14/99 PST, you wrote: > > > >Wait a minute ... I could have sworn that Blondie invented rap ... or > >maybe it was Aerosmith. ;-) > > > Blondie's song Rapture is the earliest kind of rap song I remember hearing. > > Heather Does anybody remember an album that Joan Baez put out around '77 or '78 called 'Blowin' Away'? It included a cut called 'Time Rag' and I swear this was Joan Baez doing rap. Except for the chorus it was all spoken. Went something like this: Rippin' along towards middle-age When my music career kinda missed a page Record sales began to drop The Management all began to hop 'Not to worry', they said, 'you'll see, What you need is some fresh publicity Just give us a nod and we'll all leap Towards putting you back at the top of the heap.' I said, 'Fine, I'll give it a whack.' I hung up the phone & turned my back Began daydreaming I was somebody else When the phone jumped over from the wall to the shelf 'We just had a break. This is really fine! We can make the January issue of Time If you'll give us Monday a week from today From 2 to 4. Now what do you say?' chorus (sung) And I said 'Time, Time mag mag You got me On the rag rag Take your insults About the queen And shove them up your royal Timese machine!' it goes on about how this reporter from Time magazine shows up at her house & really seems interested in what she has to say until: Well, suddenly it stopped and he started to lobby He said, 'Tell me some inside stuff about Bobby' 'Bobby who?' I smiled and said And the Time man's face was laced with red 'I know you guys used to know each other I know you refer to him as being your brother And I know that you know where he's comin' from' I said 'You know alot for being so goddamn dumb' repeat chorus Well I never gave him quite what he came for The inside story and it's really a shame For I never made the January issue of Time And just before I run out of words that rhyme I really should tell you that deep in my heart I don't give a damn where I stand on the charts Not as long as the sun sinks into the west And that's going to be a pretty serious test of time.... repeat chorus twice So maybe it was Joan Baez who invented rap.:-) Mark in Seattle 'Say what you mean, mean what you say and throw a little joke and a song into the mix from time to time to lighten things up' - Grace Slick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:04:47 EST From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Hejira Heyday and a Highway (Warning: Rambling) The New Jersey Turnpike had become a virtual parking lot for a good two hours last night. Ice and windshear on the bridge up ahead had placed my heavy ship on a perpetual decline. Traffic was at an absolute standstill. Two hours, not an inch. My brake foot permanently pressed, no need to worry about the food in the trunk from spoiling, just steady wind and rain, freezing and falling. In the not too distance, the illumination of the winter white Empire State building top beckoned. My mind wandered to thoughts of a cozy big-high-off- the-ground bed made with crisp sheets and a cashmere blanket. "Like they have at Claridge's", my dinner mate had told me earlier in the evening. Feeling jinxed, "If only I had left ten minutes earlier?" The windshield wipers scraped against the building crystals. I wouldn't be home until after midnight and had to work in the morning. Fortunately, there was a CD player in the car and a new book to read. This trip's selection, TTT, Hejira, TI and Jane Siberry's Maria (which I left behind). Now I was revisiting Hejira. Doing my normal editing, avoiding "Furry", because I believe it makes men hate themselves. Thinking "A Strange Boy" was something a closeted gay youngster's girlfriend could identify with. Appreciating the intrinsic beauty of the players, and the production value of the title track in particular. Undeniably, it is a pinnicle for Joni. Like she was aware of the gift, taking it seriously, being very successful, and most of all she was supported and listened to back then. That's what this album in particular demands, listening. It is the most grounded and successful album, Joni has ever created. I think back to the LA concerts recently, when Joni herself admitted that these songs held up for her quite well. Me too Joni. Not that TTT isn't you too. (Ala Telly Savalis" "Who loves you Baby?") "Chicken scratching for my immortality", "so deep so superficial", it was as if all of Joni's stars had come into play, along with Stevie Wonder with Fulfillingness First Finale. Winter continued falling from the sky, and as I listened, realized the cascading movements conveyed throughout the album. The initial drum roll of Song For Sharon is a prime example. The undertow of the other players, particularly Jaco's sweeping bass. I wasn't reminiscing really, I was very much in the moment. Alas, the album was released more than a quarter of a century ago. Yet, it was so appropriate for this evening's adventure. I knew that I would be passing Wollman Rink on my way home through Central Park. How ingrained her music still remained in me after so much time passing. Like everything else, it too would fade. Come full circle, if you will. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:09:25 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Joni on Jeopardy --- again On the Jeopardy aired tonight here, under the category that was something about Yellow and music, was the answer (paraphrasing) the Joni Mitchell song from "Ladies Of the Canyon" that was about ecology. The defending champ, a Chicago schoolteacher, buzzed in and said unassuredly, "What is Big Yellow Taxi?" For $200, i think. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:50:15 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: Mo Hippie Metal Shit/rap (NJC) >> At 06:56 PM 1/14/99 -0800, you wrote: >> > >> > >> >Does anybody remember an album that Joan Baez put out around '77 or '78 >> >called 'Blowin' Away'? It included a cut called 'Time Rag' and I swear >> >this was Joan Baez doing rap. Except for the chorus it was all spoken. >> >Went something like this: >> > <> Gee, didn't Donnie & Marie Osmond pioneer rap music? Wouldn't y'all like to see Donnie & Marie and Michael & Janet get down with some funky little rap number ...... please wake me from this nightmare ..... Heather ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:52:09 EST From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira Heyday and a Highway (Warning: Rambling) In a message dated 1/14/99 9:10:17 PM Central Standard Time, DKasc13293@aol.com writes: << Doing my normal editing, avoiding "Furry", because I believe it makes men hate themselves. >> Why do you believe this? I've listened to Furry a zillion times and never experienced this feeling... Bob M. NP: Talking Heads "The Book I Read" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:54:14 EST From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Mo Hippie Metal Shit/rap (NJC) In a message dated 1/14/99 5:21:11 PM Central Standard Time, luvart@snet.net writes: << Blondie's song Rapture is the earliest kind of rap song I remember hearing. >> Didn't "Rapper's Delight" by the SugarHill Gang precede Blondie's tune ?? Bob M. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:06:21 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Black Wings I was recently watching The Beat of Black Wings video (thanks Brian!) and was wondering about the dancers that are featured. For those of you who have seen it, I'm refering to the dancers who represent geometric shapes. These dancers remind me of MOMIX or Mumminchaunse (sp) dance troupes. Does anyone have any info on this? Please excuse me if this has already been dicussed :-) Thanks, Heather ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:13:17 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: Mo Hippie Metal Shit/rap (NJC) At 10:54 PM 1/14/99 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 1/14/99 5:21:11 PM Central Standard Time, luvart@snet.net >writes: > ><< Blondie's song Rapture is the earliest kind of rap song I remember hearing. >>> > >Didn't "Rapper's Delight" by the SugarHill Gang precede Blondie's tune ?? > >Bob M. > > I remember that song well. Darn good question. In my Rolling Stone Guide it dates "Rapture" by Blondie as a 1980 release. Couldn't find anything on the SugarHill Gang. Heather (Hip hop .....) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:16:40 -0600 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Amelia and Jelly Beans (NJC) Okay, all.................start listening to AMELIA and click over to: http://205.158.47.41/art4.html click on the picture of Amelia Earhart done in JELLY BEANS???? to enlarge it and get the full effect. While your there don't forget to get your free bag of Jelly Belly's and enter to win a VW Beetle too! (the answer to what's on every bean is the words "Jelly Belly") Just in case the URL above doesn't get you there. Go to: http://www.jellybelly.com/index.html and go to the bottom of the page and click on JELLY BELLY ART GALLERY. Continue to click on the box CLICK FOR NEXT GALLERY until you get to Amelia. Remember to click on the picture to enlarge it. A little fun on a Thursday evening! Laura :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:37:46 -0600 From: "John Villasana" Subject: Re: Re: Cobain/ Hippie Mariana said: You seem to be stuck on this point Mariana so I'll just tell you outright. Yes. I am bitter because RUSH is not the most popular band in the world, and despite their status as the most important band in the world they consistantly get unfavorable reviews. There, I said it. Are you happy? Are you happy that you have ripped my warped and tortured soul naked before all? Now you and your hipster friends can laugh at me, then go on with your happy and perfect lives, basking in the glow of success. I guess I'll just get me a shopping cart and do a slow burn. The stage goes black as the spotlight beams down on the tragic character, gradually thinning till he is erased. Just Kidding :-) Mariana. I think I've said all I have to say on this subject. I' pretty sure that I have covered the bases. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. It may be helpful information for you to know that I come from a family of hearty debaters. One could say we are mast...er um. We enjoy healthy debate around the dinner table. It's fun, it hones...uh enhances our thinking skills. jOhn np. John Mclaughlin Live in Tokyo. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 20:40:11 PST From: "Angela Takats" Subject: joni fan from "down under" says hi to jmdl Hello jmdl subscribers....well i'm new to this game. My names Angela and i live in Sydney, Australia. I am a huge joni fan and have just joined the jmdl......so HI! My favourite joni song at the moment is "down to you" from Court and Spark.....the album sounds so seventies, but i love it, and "down to you" is such a beautiful melody, full of thoughtful words (it's my fav rainy day song).....don't know how to play it on the guitar yet (it's more piano though) It's so hard to find joni fans down here, it's rare that people even know who i am talking about....people my age especially (21)....is it rare for someone my age to like joni's work?...most people i know who like her songs are over 40, and grew up listening to her stuff...but while my friends numb their minds with the latest techno crap, i hum the tunes of Mitchell, and i think i'm a much better person for it...she's amazing. Now, forgive me if i am SO behind the times....but whatever happened to joni having throat cancer...was that just a rumour? can anyone tell me if she has recovered, am i rude for bringing it up? I have been reading through some of the messages from the list and i really hope i'm not too "low brow" and "uncultured" for this discussion list, i can't understand most of what has been going on in the list (what's with all this hippie stuff?????), but i spose i'll pick up on the slang over time. Oh well....just some more info about me, in case you might like to drop me an email: * the first joni song i ever heard was both sides now * i play the acoustic guitar, very poorly * i write my own songs and poems (but i'm sure we all do) * i would just die to see joni live in concert * i dream that one day i can travel to america / canada and find a little folk bar, where the people know and love joni's work, and sing, sing, sing See ya From ange ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:23:01 -0800 (PST) From: LucasBC@webtv.net (Luke Bierlein) Subject: Turbulent Indigo Hi everyone! I was only somewhat recently made aware of the *special* edition of "Turbulent Indigo" that was released without the jewel case and with that little tin ear inside. I bought TI probably about six or seven months after it's release from one of those mail-order clubs. It was my first post-"Blue" Joni album (if I even had "Blue" at that time) and so I wasn't really worried about getting that special edition, if I'd even known about it. I'd seen it once in a local music store and wondered if it hadanything special, but this was all long before I found the Joni online community and learned of the special packaging. Anyway, the point of this rambling is that I'd really really like to get my hands on a copy of that special version. I don't know how possible/impossible this is because I've never heard it discussed. If anyone knows any way to get a copy of that CD package, I'd really appreciate the information and help. Oh, I'm also on the lookout for the non-jewel "Hits". Thanks so much!! Luke ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 21:41:22 -0800 (PST) From: LucasBC@webtv.net (Luke Bierlein) Subject: For the Roses/Joni's Recording Style Alright, I've given it about two weeks to sink in. I've listened to it both carefully and while busily doing odd-jobs. My verdict on FTR is that I absolutely love it. I wasn't sure when I first heard the piano at the beginning of "Banquet" and when I realized that it didn't have the same guitar rhythm of "Blue", but I'm well on my way to a great relationship with this album, if I may be so cheesy. Right now i'm really into "Blond In the Bleachers", "CBSASF", "For the Roses", etc, etc. The rest will come in time I'm sure. That' s what I love about most of the Joni albums I've encountered--in time I love every song on the record. While listening to "Lesson In Survival" and "Let the Wind Carry Me" I realized how common it was for Joni to sort of combine two songs in medley-form on an album and was wondering how she did it. I'm really unfamiliar with recording practices, so please bear with me. Maybe Joni's recording style has changed, but in the earlier days did she sing and play guitar/piano at the same time (recording both)? What about on the medley-styles songs like on "FTR" and "Court and Spark"? Did she just continue playing whatever instrument it was and move right into the next song? One more thought came to mind today while thinking about Joni. I know it's been said that Joni's next album might be one of standards, but what about a new album full of reincarnations of songs never recorded/released? I'd love to hear "Go Tell The Drummer Man," "Carnival in Kenora," and many others I've heard on tapes in the present Joni style. It might be a fun thing for her to do, and, though I may be wrong, it'd be something much-appreciated by her fans as well. Has this idea come up many times before? Luke ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:33:36 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: For the Roses/Joni's Recording Style In a message dated 1/15/99 12:43:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, LucasBC@webtv.net writes: << but what about a new album full of reincarnations of songs never recorded/released? I'd love to hear "Go Tell The Drummer Man," "Carnival in Kenora," and many others I've heard on tapes in the present Joni style. It might be a fun thing for her to do, >> Luke, I'm sure she feels she has long outgrown those songs. I doubt you'll ever hear her do them. In fact, I'll bet she's forgotten most of them. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:46:34 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: NJC: Ritual Purification I loved that article about bands that suck. In an act of ritual purification, I've decided to cleanse my library of CDs that suck. I want bids from the JMDL community for the collection of all 5 CDs that suck and I'll pay for the postage via the slowest, cheapest means possible. They all play correctly- that's not the problem. No, instead, if you are the highest bidder, you'll get Sarah McLachlan's screechy debut, "Touch". She sings so high that I can not even follow her when I whistle! I mean this is an album for bats and dogs. Next, you'll want to listen to the Who's "Tommy" on CD. This is not the movie soundtrack, nor the cast recording. There's something singularly wierd about this CD. I doesn't sound like the Tommy that I listened to over and over in high school. Maybe they decided to use alternate tracks because they could not find the correct ones. Maybe they processed the sound, turning it inside out, sucking the life from it. All I know is, for me, it does not work. It sucks. My collection of CDs that suck is rounded out with 3 R.E.M. titles: "Out of Time", "Monster", and "New Adventures in Hi-Fi". What can I say? I loved their "Automatic For the People" and I just kept giving them one more chance. No more. They are out of here. - -- Feeling lighter already, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:53:41 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: The sweets we like I agree that chocolate has a place on the List. But only chocolate truffles from Godiva, preferably the ones with chocolate so dark and bitter that it's almost like eating coffee grounds. Golly what good stuff. What's the gay perspective on this JMDL/chocolate question? - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 01:55:38 EST From: MP123A321@aol.com Subject: Some joni vs. NJC- (Never Any Joni Content) Somehow this recent post compelled me to come out of the pantry. > Let's take music that is close to ones heart and make it as trite as we possibly can because lets face it WE ARE THE AUTHORITY ON EVERYTHING.< You could get a free education on how to be a Music Critic @ the JMDL....Sally Struthers may add this course to "Everybody wants to make more money" from her IDS Home Study Course. You really listen to that type of music? I do have to add I am learning more about Courtney and Kurt than I imagined possible from this list. Someone kept raving about Madonna - Ray of Light - a while back on this list and I finally heard it. I really enjoy it. Even if it was a gift to my wife ....(from and for me). Is that so wrong? I never would have thought it was insensitive in The Roches "Train Song" portraying the guy with a beer in the seat next to Suzy(?) as "fat". But then again I call co-workers at my job "retards." Please ...I'm trying to be more aware of f*****g my language,especially at work. My JMDL stats; Total posts = 8 maybe Total trades = 20 - ish Total replies to me I hated = 8 (4 by the same person) Total madness.....always. Thanks to Wally and Les for the great service and sites, it has been a year on the list for me. Wishing Wally a speedy recovery.....how about a Joel Bernstein interview ? Notes from a non-gay, former sensitive type guy, recreational listener... ...needing sleep.. and preparing for a JCAHO site review (for anyone who can relate). Maurice (usually not a poster) Wondering if Exxon Blue is the Windows default color ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:21:44 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: Ritual Purification In a message dated 1/15/99 1:46:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, jlamadoo@one.net writes: << My collection of CDs that suck is rounded out with 3 R.E.M. titles: "Out of Time", "Monster", and "New Adventures in Hi-Fi". What can I say? I loved their "Automatic For the People" and I just kept giving them one more chance. No more. They are out of here. >> What does it tell you about my opinion of R.E.M. that I didn't aruge for a second when my ex-wife asked for them when we divided our stuff? Good riddance! Paul I ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #26 ************************* There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. 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