From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V4 #24 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, January 14 1999 Volume 04 : Number 024 The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re[2]: interpret-Passion Play [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] RE: interpret-Passion Play [Michael Yarbrough ] It's a Beautiful Day for a Shitty Concert ["Steve Garrison" ] RE: Van Lyrics (SJC) [Scott Price ] Lorin Hart - Up Coming Shows ["Peter Holmstedt" ] Hippie fun [The Humphreys ] Then and Now [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Hippie/musical values ["John Villasana" ] Re: hippie s**t LJC, Grateful Dead (NJC) [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: hippie-s**t (VLJC) ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Re: Hippie/Cobain [Marilune@aol.com] Re: Re[2]: Hippie/Cobain [Marilune@aol.com] Re: Re: Re[2]: Hippie/Cobain [Marilune@aol.com] Re: Re: Hippie/Cobain [Marilune@aol.com] Re: Re: Hippie/Cobain [Marian Rulewski ] Re: Re: Hippie/Cobain [Marian Rulewski ] Re: Cobain/ Hippie ["John Villasana" ] Re: the new 90's Hippie s**t NJC (still njc) [Mark-n-Travis ] Re: hippie s**t LJC, Grateful Dead (NJC) [Mark-n-Travis ] Ga. Divas (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: Dead or alive (NJC) [Mark Domyancich ] Irony Alert? Re: the new 90's Hippie s**t NJC (still njc) ["Steve Garris] Re: Van Lyrics (SJC) ["Kakki" ] Mo Hippie Metal Shit (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Groove/improv (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: Ga. Divas (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] Ranting and Raving (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: Mo Hippie Metal Shit (NJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] ICQ [evian ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:07:13 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: interpret-Passion Play Michelle said: My read on this song... Ecstasy--the beauty of one who comes in love "who is this heart healer" Misery--the appeal that He has for those who suffer and the love He has for those who suffer. Apathy--for those who lose sight of giving, loving, helping each other. Tragedy--the crucifiction--destroy what we don't understand, comprehend, agree with, etc. Michelle - excellent read! especially the "tragedy" note - "Passion Play" typically refers to the suffering & crucifixion of Christ, of course, Joni is the Queen of duality so she could've been thinking about the phrase on a number of levels. I have played this song for my 11th-12th graders in Sunday School and usually only get 'blank faces at the window stares & stares'... Bob, wishing that as many would post on this Joni thread as do for a Grateful Dead thread... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:15:24 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: interpret-Passion Play Has anyone mentioned that the figure in the sycamore tree is a reference to the Biblical Zaccheus, a tax collector? Maybe one of the Sunday school teachers on the list could explain his story to us. And of course "Passion Play" is also a common name for the story of Jesus Christ's crucifixion and resurrection. I've always seen this song as an explicit use of the Biblical story as metaphor for the late 20th century (hence the use of Exxon and radiation as modifiers for the blue and rose). In that context, very loosely, ecstasy could translate to the times of hope during the hippie (sans s**t) era, misery the destruction of that hope (MLK & RFK assassinations, '70s turmoil), apathy the giving up of hope ('80s, 'nuff said), and tragedy the sure result of that. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:25:36 -0500 From: "Steve Garrison" Subject: It's a Beautiful Day for a Shitty Concert I assure you that's not what I meant. What I meant was that on the one occasion I saw them (spring of 1970) they were too debilitated to play, and apparently multiplied the volume to compensate. Presumably there were IABD shows, perhaps a majority of them, which were better, I'm not the one to say. But when you happen to be present for a real stinker, it stays with you. I'm not sure what gave you the impression that laser shows and dry ice are my paragon of performance style, but you are mistaken. But it IS a basic requirement of mine that some music take place. Nothing musical transpired on that afternoon, I'm afraid. I'm glad to hear they're doing better these days. I still like several of their tunes. Steve - ---------- >If you mean there were no smoke and lasers and people were not >jumping around in matching sequend (sp?) suits, then, yes, it was a shitty >concert. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:30:48 EST From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Van Lyrics (SJC) In a message dated 1/13/99 5:14:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, mwyarbro@zzapp.org writes: > I wish I could love Van for > his music, too, but it's not working, so somebody, anybody > please help me with the lyrics!! :-) > > --Michael I went to Moondance to read the lyrics to my favorite song on that record: And It Stoned Me. I don't usually read Van's lyrics the way I do Joni's or other favorite songwriters whose lyrics stand on their own as poems. And It Stoned Me is not brilliant songwriting but when I hear that song I can never contain my joy. Van's delivery is so soulful and passionate. It is all (words, music) coming from a place very deep inside him. To me, his lyrics are the type you allow to stream into your consciousness rather than intellectualize about. I've heard a bit of more recent work on a great radio station I listen to. The sound is jazzy and the lyrics ramble. Nothing like the exuberance of some of the earlier work. I didn't read the other posts about Van very carefully, so I hope that I'm not being redundant. Someone has probably said the same thing, only more eloquently! Gina OK - here comes the first NP I've ever included in a posting. I'm a little nervous! NP: Concrete And Barbed Wire, Lucinda Williams (From Car Wheels On A Gravel Road) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:44:40 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Fw: interpret-Passion Play - ---------- > From: Michael Yarbrough > To: 'joni@smoe.org' > Subject: RE: interpret-Passion Play > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 5:15 PM > > > Has anyone mentioned that the figure in the sycamore tree is > a reference to the Biblical Zaccheus, a tax collector? Maybe > one of the Sunday school teachers on the list could explain > his story to us. Zaccheus as a short man which is why he was up in the tree to see Christ walk by. He was a greedy tax collector hated by all (misery & apathy?), Christ called him by name & asked to send time with him at his home. Zaccheus was so taken by this that he promised to change his ways and to give back (I think it was double) to those he cheated. I am really enjoying all the different interpretations! Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:57:58 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: RE: Van Lyrics (SJC) At 05:04 PM 1/13/99 -0500, Michael Yarbrough wrote: >frankly I don't place a lot of importance on lyrics. I think >the music is more important. As Kakki stated earlier, I wish to reiterate that I do not mean to say that "if you weren't there, you can't get it or enjoy it." But there would seem to be some sort of block that comes into play. Just as I cannot understand how the rap and hip-hop and black music you clamor for contains much semblance of melody or instrumental virtuosity, you can't seem to understand that Van's music, and that from many of his musical peers (read: hippy-shit), evoke a *feeling* or an emotion in certain listeners. While some more eloquent (and patient) than I may be able to describe exactly which lyrics and which melodies move them and how/why this happens, I believe it's a relationship that's either there or not. Some experience this intense feeling when listening to Van, James Taylor, CSN, and many others. It obviously does not affect you, and I don't think any amount of explanations or personal revelations is going to change that. You like what you like; I respect that, even though it's not what appeals to me, and I ask for the same in return. Suffice it to say that Van, like Joni, is able to strike a chord with many of the people on this list. The artists you regularly praise do not do anything for me, but that's just me. Try as I might to "get into" the CDs you mention, it just ain't there for me. I guess that's my problem--but I can live with it, without resorting to pleas for someone to please explain it to me or to insult someone by referring to their faves as "banal" and "terrible." Peace and love beads, Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:55:14 +0100 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Lorin Hart - Up Coming Shows LORIN IS PLAYING AT: LUNARIA 10351 sANTA mONICA BLVD. (at BEVERLY GLEN) JANUARY 14 10PM FEBRUARY 3 10PM FEBRUARY 17 12 MIDNIGHT MARCH 3 12 MIDNIGHT THE GIG 11637 WEST PICO BLVD OPENING FOR CORNBREAD BUDDAH JANUARY 20 8:30 pm THE BAKED POTATO CAHUENGA AT LANKERSHIM FEBRUARY 26(?) 9:00 PM PLEASE, COME AND VISIT, WE'L L HAVE AN EVENING OUT TOGETHER ( check my website for more information home.earthlink.net/~lorinhart) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:58:44 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni vs. Gay Divas IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/11/99 7:01:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, > catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: > > << Well I don't see how the penis bit got in there but whilst i agree that not > all > str8 men are ignorant of feelings, there own and others, it does come across > that > way. >> > > Maybe, just maybe, it is YOU (I don't mean to pick on you, Colin, but I'm > using YOU symbolically) who is insensitive to them. Maybe, just maybe, you are > so wrapped up in your own that you are wither unaware of mine or unconcerned > about them. If I were wrapped up in my own I wouldn't be able to do the work I do with other survicors etc. As for being unaware of your feelings, well of course I am, I don't know you apart from the mails you send here and I decided a long time ago that they should not be the proof of your feelings, that perhaps you showed sensitivity and caring for others feelings off list.bw colin > Paul I - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:49:48 -0500 From: The Humphreys Subject: Hippie fun Hello again! It's only my second post and I already may be alienating some of you.:-) I too am very much, or was very much the Deadhead. I still appreciate their music eventhough I don't listen to it very often any more. To me, it was as much about the music as it was the dancing, the freedom, and the friends you made along the way. I have to say though, that the last few years of the G-Dead seemed to be more embroiled in commercialism and the fad of being a homeless, pan-handling, sponge than a lover of their music. The last show I went to, New Year's Eve 1991 left me with the feeling that I was being ostracized for not having the right clothes on, the right hair-do, or the correctly decorated vehicle, all of the things I was trying to escape in a more conventional life. Things had definetly changed with their popularity. I hope my previous statements don't offend. But I am also a faithful connoisseur of Pat Metheny, Tuck and Patty, Jerry Douglas, Bela Fleck, the list goes on. The diversity of music is what I crave. I would not get through the hard times without my old fav's, but I would not continue to thrive without the new. Music, to me, is a never ending journey of discovery, consuming and enjoying the good, while discarding the mediocre. I have enjoyed revisiting some of my early musical muses crediting joining this digest as the sole reason for digging through the dusty closets and trunks to triumphantly hold up my long lost Todd Rundgren tape (much to my husband's dismay). Joni has also been revisited, as she tends to be more frequently than the others...and I too continue to discover renewed relevance with every listening. Just my 2 cents, I might be a DeadHead, but I'm not an AirHead:-) Suzanne NP Strength In Numbers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:16:25 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Then and Now It seems to me that on average, in any era, most music (or any creative output, really) is mediocre, much is pure crap, and only the rare cream rises. The 90s haven't produced any more crap than the 60s; there was a lot of crap then, too, we just don't remember it because it justifiably didn't endure (aside from those examples of brilliance that get overlooked in the first place). Of course, individual perceptions of what is good/bad will always vary, but by and large, there has always been good music and bad music, and there always will be. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:48:40 -0600 From: "John Villasana" Subject: Re: Hippie/musical values Michael Y. said: I have to ask. What exactly are your values with regards to music? What qualities do you require in order to deem something good or bad? jOhn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:46:51 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: hippie s**t LJC, Grateful Dead (NJC) In a message dated 1/13/99 2:44:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, guitarzan@saber.net writes: << Also wanted to respond to the comment that the CSN album made people suddenly aware of acoustic music. CSN came out in '69. Dylan came out in '64, and that's when I would mark the masses as recognizing the power of the acoustic guitar, >> I don't think Dylan's music was as popular or as accessible back in 64 as CSN's was in 69- they brought it out more into the mainstream, IMO. Dylan had his fans, of course, but I still maintain that it wasn't until CSN that others in the pop world began to incorporate a more acoustic sound into their music. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:22:01 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: hippie-s**t (VLJC) Yeah, back then Joni was an unknown to casual music fans except for the "fifteen minutes" when 'Court & Spark' was on the air. Now all of us JMDL'ers can nod knowingly when the newest crop are making it big. [In other words, +me too+.] Kakki said: Yep, Terry, that was how it was. As has been the pattern through my life, only the people I knew who sang/played guitar etc., would admit to loving the female folk singers. - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:26:36 EST From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Hippie/Cobain In a message dated 1/13/99 8:43:57 AM, refab@neptune.ConnectI.com wrote: >Just when and how did they do that? I have heard this statement before. It's not >clear to me who > >they've influenced. I don't see a lot of Cobain wannabes out there, musical or >otherwise. I can > >see how this could be said about Robert Plant, or Jimi Hendrix who could truly >be called > >prototypical. just because there aren't "cobain wannabes" doesn't mean Nirvana's influence isn't there. would you call sarah mclachlan a joni-wannabe because she's influenced by Joni? or how about Alanis Morisette? these women are making their *own* music and don't deserve to be called wannabes just because they own a few joni records and listened to her during their formative years. would you call the Deftones PJ Harvey wannabes because they love her and are influenced by her? Nirvana was one of the first pioneers of the "grunge" sound (loud, fast, yet melodic). though it is unclear who really started the movement (Mudhoney or Soundgarden, i've got a bet with a friend), Nirvana was def. the first to bring it mainstream with the '91 release of "Nevermind". would pop/rock music be the same today if Nirvana hadn't happened. probably not. bands such as Bush, The Offspring, and Korn wouldn't have been as popular as they are. Cobain also got a bad rap because he committed suicide. it has overshadowed the music he made. maybe Hendrix, Plant, and Page influenced alot of people, but you cannot say that the world is any less full of cobain wannabes than hendrix wannabes. - -mariana NP: The Best of Blondie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:37:19 EST From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Hippie/Cobain In a message dated 1/13/99 1:56:22 PM, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com wrote: > rock would have happened > without Kurt & the boys...interestingly enough, The Foo Fighters with > ex-Nirvana drummer Dave Grohl rock just as hard and true, making me > wonder who was REALLY pulling the strings on Nirvana's sound... > most definetly. Kurt overshadows basically all over Nirvana's legacy we forget about Krist Novoselic and Dave Grohl. i'm happy Dave has achieved his own succsess, in a foo fighters interview disc i own, dave talks about how kurt wrote great songs and he's grateful for nirvana, and how he's also grateful for the ppl who took time to listen to the Foo Fighters as well as Nirvana. - -mariana Np: Best of Blondie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:44:27 EST From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Re[2]: Hippie/Cobain In a message dated 1/13/99 6:50:45 PM, refab@neptune.ConnectI.com wrote: >My point exactly. If you read my first post on this subject, you may have noticed >that one of the > >first things that are done to these less than worthy acts is to change the drummer. > You can layer > >and overproduce crap, and gloss over imperfections, but only if the drummer is >very good. My > >understanding is that Dave Grohl was hired when Nirvana went to Geffen records, >which is when > >Nirvana really took off. Dave Grohl was in Scream at the times, I believe, and was given the option of joining Nirvana. Read the Rolling Stone interview with him about the Foo Fighters. Their prior Drummer Jason or Chad I'm not sure, was not very good, but if they were so interested in "glossing" their work, why would they have hired another drummer anyway. they could have gotten a drum machine. but they didn't. nirvana owes alot to eighties bands: they loved sonic youth and thanked them on the liner notes of In Utero. Cobain also had great respect for pop music. Perhaps Nirvana was just one droplet in the tidal of alternative bands, but people remember Nirvana more than they remember the others. that says alot. And Bush....if you want wannabes, they're right there. not just nirvana wannabes: Gavin Rossdale wants to be the pixies, nirvana, and the sex pistols all wound up. but even you admit Cobain could write a good pop song. Rossdale can't do that. listen to Gylcerine. it's a horrible song and Bush is a horrible band. - -mariana NP: best of blondie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:47:46 EST From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Hippie/Cobain >John Villasana wrote: > >> >> >> Nirvana invented marketable teen angst? I thought the Who did. But I'm probably >wrong. It was >> probably someone way before the Who. Nirvana didn't invent marketable teen angst. neither did the Who. teen angst has been around for ages. and it's always been marketable. Nirvana just tapped into it. and was succsessful. there is absoulutely nothing wrong with that. you seem angry that Nirvana achieved succsess but other bands you like, didn't. you cannot deny the fact that Nirvana is a good band with good songs. you may not like it, but i maintain that they changed rock, no matter who they were influenced by. - -mariana NP: Best of Blondie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:06:45 +1000 From: Marian Rulewski Subject: Re: Re: Hippie/Cobain >>>>>Nirvana was one of the first pioneers of the "grunge" sound (loud, fast, yet melodic). though it is unclear who really started the movement (Mudhoney or Soundgarden, i've got a bet with a friend),>>>>>>> I believe that Neil Young is known as the Father of Grunge but that might not be correct. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:14:18 +1000 From: Marian Rulewski Subject: Re: Re: Hippie/Cobain you cannot deny the fact that Nirvana is a good band with good songs. says Mariana Seems a bit unfair because you say the above and then previously you say Bush is a horrible band. Well if you can say Bush is terrible then someone can say Nirvana is horrible and you really don't have a leg to stand on. For all I know they may both be horrible but that's MY OPINION and remember your opinion is only that - AN OPINION. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:21:34 -0600 From: "John Villasana" Subject: Re: Cobain/ Hippie Marilune said: Yes, I am idealistic. I think quality should be rewarded. It's hard and it requires integrity. It cannot be contrived. Not to sound dramatic here. I really mean this. It disappoints me when an artistic industry like the music industry puts all it's energy into contriving glitzy mediocrity. When I was growing up, people didn't depend on Rolling Stone or MTV to tell them what was good. There were lots of options. There are currently a small handful of record companies with worldwide distribution. There used to be a choice. And that choice fueled tremendous competition. Now, thanks to the power of the media, anyone can be a star. It seems to me that this cheapens our popular mythology, and our society needs strong myths. Sorry to get long haired on you. Here's something more tangible. When I was growing up, there were a plethora of good bands and other musical entities in our community. There were lots of live clubs and a sense of exhiliration over who was going to do what next. Today there are only a few live music clubs left. In some of them, you have to pay to play. What has happened is that music used to invite ambition. Now thanks to Nirvana and the grunge scene, anybody who can afford a loud amp can pretend he is talented. Whats worse, the so called Hipsters have taken over the scene with their flash and hipper than thou attitudes. As a result, the general poplution has lost interest in music. Truly talented, hardworking musicians have lost their incentive to work hard, since it doesn't matter how good you are anymore. As someone who loves music, this is a tragic situation. Sniff jOhn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:24:40 -0800 From: Mark-n-Travis Subject: Re: the new 90's Hippie s**t NJC (still njc) Don Rowe wrote: >Anyone with enough nerve to stand up in > the prevailing winds and say that there was nothing original going on > underneath the noisy digital overdrive and distortion of Nirvana can put > whatever he or she likes on their posts. The following piece is from a Seattle alternative weekly newspaper called 'The Stranger'. Some of you may have heard of Dan Savage. He is the sexual relations advice columnist for 'The Stranger' and has a nationally syndicated radio program. Anyway, I found this in the most recent issue. It's in a section by Everett True called 'Hugs & Kisses/The Outbursts of Everett True' and the heading reads: SUCK AND ROLL There was a time when rock forgot how to rock-or, more accurately, was embarrassed to be seen displaying that knowledge. It happened in the mid-'90s, shortly after most hipsters became bored by the actions of the recording industry in a small section of Northwestern America, known loosely as "Seattle." (Of course, hipsters should never be allowed to draw close to the lumbering behemoth that is rock, but that's another matter entirely.) In the wake of Nirvana-and Olympia, but no one ever touches on that-identikit white boy indie rockers suddenly discovered their "feminine" side, their sensitive natures...and decided that straightforward rock wasn't good enough for them. No. They had to be seen to care-and beat their brows, and wink sardonically whenever they struck an old-fashioned rock "pose"-but most importantly, they had to be seen to be clever. Very, very clever. Hence "emo-core." Hence "math rock." Sunny Day Real Estate were (and are) a prime example of a rock band who can't rock because they're too damned worried about appearing smart and soulful. Smashing Pumpkins are another. Almost all of the Slint-inspired, Chicago-based Rodan offshoots (Rex, June of '44) are guilty of this. As are locals Juno. The biggest offenders of all, however, are a band who play neither emo-core or math rock. R.E.M. suck (but I'm getting ahead of myself). In the same way the Smiths were-and are-the ruination of British music, so too R.E.M. and their tree-hugging, eyebrow-raising, cause-supporting friends nearly killed off American rock. After R.E.M., bands started to think there was more to rock than simply plugging your guitar into an amp, and turning the volume up LOUD. There isn't-or rather, there shouldn't be-not for most of the dumb-asses out there. What really links all these faux nervous dumb-ass rockers is their great ability to complain, to whine, to wear a cardigan with pride, to pass their exams back in school, to...well, let's be blunt here...to suck. This trend of suck rock bands has continued deep into the late '90s (especially around Seattle, where bands still seem ashamed of the very style which first brought them pouring into this city). In the U.K., suck rock-championed by Oasis, Gomez, and Radiohead-runs rampant. But then, British bands always looked uncomfortable around a guitar. And what exactly does The End (local alternative radio station) play every day if it isn't the epitome of suck rock? Fortunately, concerts such as the recent Breakroom show featuring Sweden's no-nonsense Hellacopters and the mighty churning Fu Manchu seem to be bucking the trend. And thank god for that. Rock bands who can't rock? What an absurd concept. Wanna hear some suck and roll? Fuck no. No wonder they call suck rock fans suckers. Contact Everett at everett@thestranger.com Ok, this is Mark again. I wanna ask Michael Y (and anyone else out there who cares to respond) is this guy calling a couple of your favorite bands (R.E.M., Radiohead) the 90's equivalent of hippie shit? Mark in Seattle who happens to think R.E.M. are great. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:32:03 -0600 From: "John Villasana" Subject: Re: NJC (still njc) Thanks for your positive response. I'm a bass player/singer/arranger. I also do live audio production. I have a small PA business, and I freelance for larger companies as well. I also have a project recording studio in my home. I just became a nurse. jOhn - -----Original Message----- From: Don Rowe To: refab@neptune.ConnectI.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 1:17 PM Subject: Re: NJC (still njc) > >>My apologies, I keep forgetting to put NJC on my posts. Sorry for any >inconvenience this may have >>caused. >> >None required from my corner. Anyone with enough nerve to stand up in >the prevailing winds and say that there was nothing original going on >underneath the noisy digital overdrive and distortion of Nirvana can put >whatever he or she likes on their posts. Funny nobody's mentioned the >"Unplugged", which to me really told the truth -- Cobain's songs weren't >songs at all, just repetetitve lines that got denser and noisier each >time they were played. Stripped of the gadgetry, you really had to >wonder, "Okay I've heard the sizzle, now where's the steak?" > >So I'm curious, what do you do in the music industry -- and no, I'm not >looking for an agent, you just seem to have a keen ear, as well as some >experience at a mixing board and familiarity with demon SMPTE. > >Don Rowe > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:33:02 -0800 From: Mark-n-Travis Subject: Re: hippie s**t LJC, Grateful Dead (NJC) Jerry Notaro wrote: > > Randy Remote wrote: > > > " > > Also wanted to respond to the comment that the CSN album made people suddenly > > aware of acoustic music. CSN came out in '69. Dylan came out in '64, and that's > > when I would mark the masses as recognizing the power of the acoustic guitar, and then Jerry wrote: > I think, besides the power of the 3 (then 4) great talents converging, their > contribution was their incredible harmonic blend of voices along with the acoustic > sound. That was rare, especially in an all male group. Wouldn't Simon & Garfunkel also fit into this category? The Sound of Silence was recorded in 1964 and hit number one in November of 1965. Although the single version has an electric guitar, a lot of their music was acoustic and the original version of SoS was acoustic. Mark in Seattle > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:46:50 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Dead or alive (NJC) Pat wrote: "I'd be interested to see a 'show of hands' to see how many of you who love Joni also like the dead.." Hey Pat- I enjoy reading your stuff about the old days. I did alot of the same stuff you talked about and I love many kinds of music (to play and listen to), but I could never get into the dead very much. BORING, but I was drawn to the feeling and vibe around the people and their obsession with this band. Phish played jazz fest a couple of years ago here in New Orleans and it was one of the biggest days they ever had. They of course compare this band to the dead, but once again I must have some sort of "dead vitamin deficiency". I did dig the stuff Jerry did with CSN. Paz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:50:26 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Ga. Divas (NJC) John wrote: "You're dammed right I'm a straight guy who likes Joni Mitchell and whoever doesn't like it can kiss my hairy butt! Urrrp! {scratch, scratch, scratch} Where's my beer?! ;-)" Hey John- You struck me as a sensitive kinda guy that would dig Barbara and Liza. Go figure! ;-} Paz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:57:21 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Dead or alive (NJC) I also love the Dead and Phish - the only connection between the Dead and Phish is improvisation. At 9:46 PM -0500 1/13/99, Michael Paz wrote: > Pat wrote: > "I'd be interested to see a 'show of hands' to see how many of you who love > Joni also like the dead.." > > Hey Pat- I enjoy reading your stuff about the old days. I did alot > of the same > stuff you talked about and I love many kinds of music (to play and > listen to), > but I could never get into the dead very much. BORING, but I was drawn to the > feeling and vibe around the people and their obsession with this band. Phish > played jazz fest a couple of years ago here in New Orleans and it was one of > the biggest days they ever had. They of course compare this band to the dead, > but once again I must have some sort of "dead vitamin deficiency". I did dig > the stuff Jerry did with CSN. ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:59:39 -0500 From: "Steve Garrison" Subject: Irony Alert? Re: the new 90's Hippie s**t NJC (still njc) Frankly, I'm not sure what points, if any, the author is trying to make. But the quote below would seem to suggest caution in taking him at his word. I don't think I'll sink a lot of energy into parsing his meanings, however. Steve - ---------- > After R.E.M., bands started to >think there was more to rock than simply plugging your guitar into an >amp, and turning the volume up LOUD. There isn't-or rather, there >shouldn't be-not for most of the dumb-asses out there. Final query. If he thinks REM sucks, is he including himself with the "dumb-asses out there?" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:49:31 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Van Lyrics (SJC) Michael wrote regarding Van's lyrics: >Can you cite an example? Even without analysis, just an example >of a line that resonates for you? > ><<>> > >"These dreams of you >So real and so true" > >"When all the dark clouds roll away >And the sun begins to shine >I see my freedom from across the way >And it comes right in on time" > >To me these read as banal. Those great lyrics everyone's talking >about must be out there, I just wish someone would tell me >where! :-) O.K., I'm going to try it this way - Consider the following lyrics from Lauryn Hill: "Now the skies could fall Not even if my boss should call The world itself seems so very small 'Cause nothing even matters at all" "Nothing even matters" (repeat 4 times) "See I don't need no alcohol Your love makes me feel ten feet tall Without it I'd go through withdrawal 'Cause nothing even matters at all" If you did not know that Lauryn wrote these lyrics, how would you honestly judge them standing alone? But to be fair, here is another example of Hill's lyrics: "A bag of Bontons, twenty cents and a nickel Springfield Ave. had the best popsicles Saturday morning cartoons and Kung Fu Main Street roots tonic with the dreds A beef patty and some coco bread Move the patch from my Lees to the tongue of my shoe 'Member Freling-Huysen used to have the bomb leather Back when Doug Fresh and Slick Rick were together Looking at the crew, we thought we'd all live together..." Now here we give some fair time to Van: "Down on Cyprus Avenue With a childlike vision leaping into view Clicking, clacking of the high heeled shoe Ford & Fitzroy, Madam George Marching with the soldier boy behind He's much older with hat on drinking wine And that smell of sweet perfume comes drifting through The cool night air like Shalimar And outside they're making all the stops The kids out in the street collecting bottle-tops Gone for cigarettes and matches in the shops Happy taken Madame George" Hmmmm...... Kakki, leaving here for a few days to travel to the birthplace of Nirvana (Why doesn't anyone mention Stone Temple Pilots, too?) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:03:07 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Mo Hippie Metal Shit (NJC) Kakki wrote: " Was that the year (1987, I think) he got the Grammy for "Crest of a Knave"? I didn't realize it was in the heavy metal category. What was up with THAT?" Kakki and Don- I saw that! I was screaming when i heard that. I guess this means that the Beatles were the founders of Heavy Metal cause they were the first ones to use distorted guitars on "I feel Fine". This also reminded me of when U2 won an award for "best alternative band" or some such nonsense. And I guess I have to belly up to the podium (no pun) and stand up for hippie shit. I can think of so many bands that I loved back then and as I recall it was all lumped in on the radio with the Supremes, Temptations, etc. Rock on! Paz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:09:31 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Groove/improv (NJC) Mark wrote: "I also love the Dead and Phish - the only connection between the Dead and Phish is improvisation." Hey Mark- What about groove? I've always heard people to remark about these two bands groove. Do you have any of Phishs' stuff covering who or other 60's rock bands. I have never heard those recordings and have looked for them often? Paz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:16:17 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Ga. Divas (NJC) Paz (with whom I spoke briefly while I was in New Orleans recently but still haven't had the pleasure of meeting in person) started a subject called "Ga. Divas (NJC)". Georgia divas? ; ) Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:27:30 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Ranting and Raving (NJC) I haven't ranted in so long and I guess I have been to busy lurking and enjoying some of the more interesting threads. I do believe though, that we should make 1999 the year that we rip everybody's music to shreds. Let's take all the music that everyone loves here and rip it a new one YEAH! that's it. Let's take music that is close to ones heart and make it as trite as we possibly can because lets face it WE ARE THE AUTHORITY ON EVERYTHING. Happy shredding, Paz NP-Some trite, insignificant, boring, terrible crap- __________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:58:13 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Mo Hippie Metal Shit (NJC) In a message dated 1/13/99 11:04:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << the Beatles were the founders of Heavy Metal cause they were the first ones to use distorted guitars on "I feel Fine". >> Do you mean feedback? I'm not sure what you mean by "distorted." Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:24:35 -0600 From: evian Subject: ICQ Hey, I got a dumb question... When I joined the list last year, I added the JMDL chat room thingy to my ICQ. But, I have never ever seen anyone there. Does this thing exist? Does anyone ever use it? And, once again, does anyone on the list use mIRC? Cheers, Evian ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V4 #24 ************************* There is now a JMDL tape trading list. 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