From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #529 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, December 29 1998 Volume 03 : Number 529 The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: New Joni Following, or same old one? ["Chad Burkhart" ] old/new fans,music and tears [Mary Becker ] [none] [Michael Kalk ] Re[2]: the tape... [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Women vs. men fans (related JC) [Mary Becker ] Re[2]: Presents for Christmas (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] New Joni Following? Or same old one? [Claud.Loren.Carter@ccMail.Census.Go] Re: Women vs. men fans (related JC) [MTDS ] Re: I'm glad I have a pond I can skate away on . . . (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fl] for "ray" ["P. Henry" ] Re: Re[2]: the tape... ["P. Henry" ] Re: the math... ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Women vs. men fans (related JC) ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Early Joni ["P. Henry" ] Re: I'm glad I have a pond I can skate away on . . . ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Whoops! ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Re: Whoops! ["John M. Lind" ] Re: Presents for Christmas [Ashara@aol.com] Songs That Make You Cry, was "Whoops"(SJC) ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Songs That Make You Cry, was "Whoops"(SJC) [Mark Domyancich ] Re: picking on lawyers (was: Congress' morality play (NJC)) [catman ] Re: Whoops! [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Whoops! [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Like a River [catman ] Re: Women vs. men fans (related JC) [catman ] Re: Women vs. men fans (related JC) ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Picking on lawyers (NJC) ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Songs That Make You Cry, was "Whoops"(SJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Perry Como Sings Joni ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Re[2]: the tape... [TerryM2442@aol.com] Top ten songs that make you cry [Sue ] BLUES LEGEND PLEAS TO MAYOR DALEY TO SAVE MAXWELL ST. (fwd) ["Mark T. Kl] Re: Like a River ["Stephen Waterbury" ] password [terstan ] P Henry [Michael Heath ] Re: Top ten songs that make you cry ["Marsha" ] Top ten songs that make you cry (NJC) [Claud.Loren.Carter@ccMail.Census.G] Re[2]: Women vs. men fans (related JC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Re[2]: Women vs. men fans (SJC) ["Don Rowe" ] Re[4]: Women vs. men fans (SJC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Joni Following [LucasBC@webtv.net (Luke Bierlein)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:55:40 PST From: "Chad Burkhart" Subject: Re: New Joni Following, or same old one? Don, You said that you wanted to hear from some people that are new to the list or that are new to Joni's music. I can tell you that I am both, well relatively. I am indeed new to the list and I have been a die hard Joni fan for only about two years now. I have though been exposed to her music for a long time. Being from Canada, and since she is arguably the best and most prolific artist to come from this country, we learn to sing rather poor renditions of some of her earlier songs, "Circle Game," "Clouds," etc. in music class. At that time, (Grade 6-9) I can't say as I really knew who Joni was but now of course I do, and I appreciate the fact that her music is part of the reporatoire in music classes across the country. Those songs were part of a series of books that we used all throuhg elemetary school entitled, "Canada is Music." Of course, I am not all seeing, nor all knowing but from my experience I can say that there are quite a few people of my generation to find Joni and fall in love with her music. And of course, TTT seems to be selling very well around here, when I was in HMV (one of the national music stores) they had it listed on their top selling albums list. This was in November sometime. So I guess what I am trying to say is that her following is ever evolving, those that stick with her and the new ones she picks up with her new releases. At the concert in Ottawa though, most of the faces were older, although there were quite a few of my generation. Cheers, Chad ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 07:13:32 -0500 From: Mary Becker Subject: Jonigifts,PPV video ? Hi everyone, I've been catching up on digests after the flurry of holiday madness and just want to chime in on a few things. Sounds like everyone had a great holiday. I received a new camera (to take better pictures when we return to Arizona on vacation this spring), and 4 Joni cds: Song for a Seagull(or Joni Mitchell-can't remember what the final decision was on that one!), Clouds, Shadows and Light(the remastered Japanese import-my husbands mistake, but a good mistake) and Mingus. So far I can't stop playing STAS! Wow! It's just an amazing first release and makes me wonder why I never got it before now. But now I have the pleasure of experiencing it as another new release and don't think I could enjoy it more. Now for my question: my husband ordered me the video that was releaased Dec 1 and says it is on backorder "everywhere" meaning the sources on the internet. Anyone know anything about this? This looks to be a Japanese import as well. I thought this was the PPV from Nov. that I couldn't get. Does anyone know exactly what is on this tape? I WANT MY VIDEO! Mary ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 07:44:02 -0500 From: Mary Becker Subject: old/new fans,music and tears I started listening to Joni when LOTC was released. One of the amazing things I've noticed since joining the list is that over and over people say they only knew one other person who was a fan (like me), or no one at all. I think it is hard to enjoy something so much, and not have anyone around to share it with. I was really moved by your story Alan, of how your friend "just didn't get it" I wonder how many of us have had similar experiences, I know I have. I was already married when I first started listening to LOTC but my husband has never shared my enthusiasm (I'll spare you all his comments). He's a wonderful guy, but just has different musical tastes. I guess my point is that this whole issue is just another indication of how talented she is. They don't know what they are missing! I don't post very often, but really enjoy reading what everyone has to say. I feel like I've learned SO MUCH in just 2 months. And finally I can "talk" to others about something that is a big pleasure in my life. Every day, even if I'm having a bad day, I can look forward to my email. I KNOW there will be something interesting! So thanks to all, especially those who responded personally, and to Les and Wally. Happy New Year!! Mary ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 08:04:28 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Kalk Subject: [none] Susan LA Honey McBabe posted: "...during times like these the wise are influential..."-JoniM and reminded me of: "The invariable mark of wisdom is to see the miraculous in the common." -Ralph Waldo Emerson - -Mike... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 08:07:15 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: the tape... Pat wrote: all four of these might be on that tape, if it was, indeed, recorded in '67... *S* pat ps - and if you have "Circle" and "Urge" on that tape you really have a treasure! Pat, I just received the tape(s) yesterday and they are certainly a treasure. Last night my son was doing a spend-the-night with a pal & my wife went to her folks house to visit so it was just me & the stereo! The songs you mention are all there - she also does a cover of Neil Young's "Sugar Mt.". Did they ever play together to your recollection? Joni also mentions a folk club in Flint, MI called the "sipping lizard". Having briefly lived in Flint and remembering that you were in that area as well, are you familiar with that club? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 08:18:06 -0500 From: Mary Becker Subject: Women vs. men fans (related JC) Forgot one of the questions I wanted to bring up. Another thing that surprizes me is how many men are on this list/Joni Mitchell fans. Since my experience was to only know one other fan and that fan was a woman... Most of the guys I knew/know were not interested in lyrics, or what music had to "say" but were mostly into rock or blues. Which is fine, I like rock and blues too. It's just great to see how many guys are fans of Joni's talent. Any other women have similar experiences? Or have any of you guys had the opposite experience? Maybe it's just that we've all been so isolated. Until now. NP(in my head and all night long) Micheal from Mountains ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 08:18:59 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Presents for Christmas (NJC) Jan wrote: What am I supposed to do with this? Xmas was funner when I believed in Santa, or at least when I got way more gifts. - -jan Jan, I guess I wish now I got FEWER gifts - I always hate having to assimilate gifts, cram one more sweater in the drawer, more books on the shelf (I prefer the library), more STUFF to deal with. Of course, new MUSIC always fits right in ;~D. The best gift I received was a card saying that a friend had made a donation to United Ministries in my honor. There's something I'll never have to dust or deal with... Maybe in the spirit of the season we can thread on what the best gift we GAVE this year was - mine was to my worthless father-in-law who loves WWII, airplanes, and watching TV. I found a set of 7 videos called "Warbirds of World War II" that featured 7 different planes and film of them in action. The only downside was that he wanted to watch them IMMEDIATELY so I had to feign interest...:-) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 08:33:11 -0500 From: Claud.Loren.Carter@ccMail.Census.Gov Subject: New Joni Following? Or same old one? I may have sent this already, if I did, I apologize and will await your punishment(s) (please be gentle with me). Work keeps interfering with my life and I can't keep track of the important things like answering/responding to important questions. Don, Since you ordered me to change and sing a new song (and quite talking about the only thing I've talked about the last couple of weeks), here goes..... Until I met my wife 3 years I was blissfully ignorant of Ms. Mitchell. Now, I'd heard her songs, but I didn't know where they came from until my wife showed me the error of my ways. I would sing along with the songs but I didn't know who the artist was. Then, my wife, enlightened me to the ways of Joni. I've always liked singers where I could actually understand the words to the song. I've always liked James Taylor simply because I could understand what he was saying (and he has a beautiful voice). Being deaf in one ear, that's important to me. As for statistics, I'm 40 (to be 41 in three weeks (don't remind me!). The folks here at work have been following my travels with the litho (sorry Don, couldn't help myself) and have asked who this singer is (most of them are 10-15 years younger than I). Well today I "borrowed" (don't tell Lucy) a Joni CD from the house to play for them at work. Most of the songs were recognizable, but, like the me of years past, they didn't know who was doing the singing. Well now they do. My wife has been a Joni-phile for years. Saw her at the New Orleans Jazz fest in 95 (I think), has all the tapes, all the articles, and certainly could speak to this group more authoritively about Joni than I. When we get an ISP at home, I'll have her join the list (and I'll leave) so that she can meet you all and speak of the magnificance that is Joni. Humbly, I don't feel qualified to be here over hearing the stories from the folks who have met her, talked with her, broke bread, and recorded with her. I've only seen her in concert once (and it was almost 2 months ago). The happiness that I saw on my wife's face made me realize that Ms. Mitchell is a part of her life, so these two women will be a part of my life also. Loren.... NP....absolutely nothing but the ringing in my ears ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 05:41:08 -0800 From: MTDS Subject: Re: Women vs. men fans (related JC) At 08:18 AM 12/29/98 -0500, Mary Becker wrote: >Forgot one of the questions I wanted to bring up. Another thing that >surprizes me is how many men are on this list/Joni Mitchell fans. Since my >experience was to only know one other fan and that fan was a woman... Most >of the guys I knew/know were not interested in lyrics, or what music had to >"say" but were mostly into rock or blues. Which is fine, I like rock and >blues too. It's just great to see how many guys are fans of Joni's talent. >Any other women have similar experiences? Or have any of you guys had the >opposite experience? Maybe it's just that we've all been so isolated. Until >now. Mary, I was also surprised at the number of men on this list. Most men I know aren't fond of Joni's lyrics, but do appreciate her musical ability and talent. Whenever I've had my Joni fests (playing Joni continuously), I've been alone... but happy... :) GREAT New Year !! NP: Lady Blue - Leon Russell =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SunDown Lady's Isle of Tranquility Featured Artists: The Divas and The BassMan http://www.sundownlady.com/flink15.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 09:24:41 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: I'm glad I have a pond I can skate away on . . . (NJC) Mark, nice story, and a reminder that the more "progress" we make as a culture the more we get to realize how much pleasure there is in the simpler things in life. Christmas eve, a cold & rainy night, we all sat around the fireplace, swapping family stories, sharing laughs & wine - it was exquisite! ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: I'm glad I have a pond I can skate away on . . . Author: "Mark T. Klempner" at fdinet Date: 12/28/98 11:48 PM What a cool night I've had. I'm visiting some dear friends in upstate New York. They live in an old farmhouse in Trumansburg, home of the Grassroots Festival, if any of you have ever gone. They own quite a few acres around here, and across street from their house they have a pond. And guess what--it's all iced over! Tonight we all went out skating. Their son had made "ice lanterns" by freezing water in buckets, but stopping before the water is completely frozen. This leaves bucket size blocks of ice, each one with a hole in the middle. You then put a candle in the hole. He had seven of these placed around the pond. Between the moonlight and the ice lanterns, the effect was magical indeed. The ice was perfect, and the four of us skated and skated, and then sat down on the porch of the "pond house," a little cabin with a wood stove, and had some brandy and amaretto. Mark from Chapel Hill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:39:51 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: for "ray" open msg to "ray" who wrote: <<< Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 22:53:36 EST From: Subject: Re: P.Henry's Joni stories jesus christ (happy birthday) i am dying to know--what did p henry say?!!!! I missed the tales--must have deleted them without reading them, and now what with all the controversy i am so intrigued. I would have been anyway I can tell. Will someone please dig it up and post it (phenry's tale) to me? Please?... Much love, ray >>> ray, not sure how it happened but somehow you posted this to the list without including you email address... (which I thought was automatic) if you will send it to me I would be happy to provide you a full update with all relevent post included... pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:01:40 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Re[2]: the tape... - -- On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:47:11 RMuRocks wrote: >badwolff@angelfire.com writes: > ><< what a song! *S* well, there ya go... pat >> >What a song indeed! And all the more amazing when you consider her age - I >guess she was such an early bloomer, I can't relate ;~) > >Thanks for the serenade - Bob very much my pleasure, bob! *S* pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 07:02:25 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: the math... Dear Pat -- As I'm sure you've heard, both on this list and on the network news broadcasts -- hoaxes are easy to propogate on the InterNet. I was merely exercising my cautionary muscles, and trying to bring a bit of measured reasoning to the initial inflamatory posts concerning your original assertions. I've since read your stories with great interest, and am firmly convinced that you are, as Furry would say, "Oil straight from the can." Please keep it coming! Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 07:17:11 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Women vs. men fans (related JC) Well if I haven't managed to offend everyone on this list, I'm sure I will now. Because this kind of talk offends ME: t 08:18 AM 12/29/98 -0500, Mary Becker wrote: >>Forgot one of the questions I wanted to bring up. Another thing that >>surprizes me is how many men are on this list/Joni Mitchell fans. Since my >>experience was to only know one other fan and that fan was a woman... Most >>of the guys I knew/know were not interested in lyrics, or what music had to >>"say" but were mostly into rock or blues. I am a man. I rule the remote control. I drink beer and curse and fart. I love professional football AND professional wrestling (wrasslin' for you Southerners). I eat red meat every chance I get. And I love Joni Mitchell. What I don't understand is why this has to be such a contradiction. Of course, I'm also a keyboard player and a poet. I cook really well. I love John Irving novels. Hmmm ... maybe I'm not so traditional as I seem -- vive la differance! :-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:25:28 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Early Joni Sue wrote: > Dear Pat, I am so glad to see that people have written to ask you to continue your reminiscing... You were correct about her"philosophical and emotional qualities" she was just so open and honest. This is the true meaning of the list! When I first heard people's stories of meeting her I just about died! When we had our Jonifest in Pittsburgh in April none of the 30 people present had met her. Kakki had bumped the back of her chair into Joni's once at an LA restaurant, but that was it. Then, the concerts and tapings occured. When I heard the account of Pearl, and Kakki meeting Joni I sat at my computer and cried with joy! People that I knew acutally met her! Then it was my turn, and I shared the three encounters immediately with the list. This is the reason you should continue to post! > suze, *BS* you're pretty 'open and honest' yourself! it's people like you I continue for and the reason I originally started sharing my posts... I am not perfect and the times I am sharing about happened a long time ago but, regardless of what some may say, these things did happen... some say 'what does it matter if people doubt you' and, truly, as regards myself, it doesn't, but for your sakes I wish I could provide you all instant proof so that the ones like you, suze... the ones who've been touched so deeply by Joni's music and love her as you and I do could truly believe and enjoy. thank you so much for writing and sharing your heart with me... pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 07:34:44 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: I'm glad I have a pond I can skate away on . . . Mark writes, from Chapel Hill ... >You then put a candle >in the hole. He had seven of these placed around the pond. Between the >moonlight and the ice lanterns, the effect was magical indeed. The ice >was perfect, and the four of us skated and skated, and then sat down on >the porch of the "pond house," a little cabin with a wood stove, and had >some brandy and amaretto. > So is this Walnut Lake? And who exactly is that "vigorous anonymity?" My how he stares and stares and stares! :-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:39:23 -0500 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Whoops! I wrote: >I think crying is the way in which your body releases overloaded emotional energy. I can't help but cry when I really think about how much I love my wife. Hell, I'm getting misty just thinking about it now. It's because I'm sad. It's just more than I can contain. I meant: It's **Not** because I'm sad. It's just more than I can contain. John~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 07:47:53 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Whoops! Hi John, who corrects himself -- > It's because I'm sad. It's just more than I can contain. > >I meant: >It's **Not** because I'm sad. It's just more than I can contain. I actually got it the first time! So be honest, do you get misty-eyed every time you put on 'Hejira'? I still do, even though I've heard it more than my own name ... how's that for a "male Joni fan" confessional!? ;-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:53:31 -0500 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Re: Re: Whoops! At 07:47 AM 12/29/98 PST, you wrote: >Hi John, who corrects himself -- >>snip<< >I actually got it the first time! So be honest, do you get misty-eyed >every time you put on 'Hejira'? I still do, even though I've heard it >more than my own name ... how's that for a "male Joni fan" >confessional!? ;-) I don't think it's all that unique a confession ;-). As much as I love Hejira it doesn't bring me to tears. Some of Joni's stuff gets me close, BSN in Atlanta *did* get me, but I can't think of any others off-hand. The only songs I can think of that will actually get me crying, that I can think of, are "Love At The Five And Dime" and There's A Light Beyond Theses Woods(Mary Margret)" by Nanci Griffith and "Watermelon In Easter-Hay" by Frank Zappa. John~ NP "What I Am" Eddie Brickell & New Bohemians ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:02:57 EST From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: Presents for Christmas In a message dated 98-12-26 18:31:07 EST, Gerald write: << My dad gave me my best Christmas present: Two cassettes that he transferred from old reel-to-reel tape recordings of a live radio broadcast from 1956. My dad and others were playing at a local hotel. My dad on guitar, singing a song called, "Alberta". It was special because I wasn't born until 1963, and I had never heard these recordings. Yesterday, my dad (now 70) and I listened to the tapes together. There was a bit of a tear in his eye, but I pretended not to notice as I tried to keep my own emotions in check. >> Gerald, What an incredible present!!! I can't think of a nicer present for Christmas. Thanks so much for sharing this story with us! This, to me, is what the holidays are *really* all about- sharing something of ourselves. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 08:06:56 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Songs That Make You Cry, was "Whoops"(SJC) I guess I ought to make it a thread now ... so, let's have a list of "Top 10 Songs That Make Me Cry" ... 1. Secret Garden -- Judy Collins 2. Hejira 3. The Chinese Cafe 4. More Than This -- Roxy Music 5. Memory -- A L Webber (so shoot me!) 6. Not Like This -- Al Jarreau 7. Fragile -- Sting 8. The Friends of Mr. Cairo -- Jon Anderson/Vangelis 9. Millworker -- James Taylor 10. River of Tears -- Eric Clapton ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:23:43 -0500 (EST) From: "Mark T. Klempner" Subject: Re: I'm glad I have a pond I can skate away on . . . On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Don Rowe wrote: > Mark writes, from Chapel Hill ... > >You then put a candle > >in the hole. He had seven of these placed around the pond. Between the > >moonlight and the ice lanterns, the effect was magical indeed. The ice > >was perfect, and the four of us skated and skated, and then sat down on > >the porch of the "pond house," a little cabin with a wood stove, and > had some brandy and amaretto. > > > So is this Walnut Lake? And who exactly is that "vigorous anonymity?" > My how he stares and stares and stares! :-) Walnut Lake? Never heard of it. We're real close to Cayuga Lake here, and about fifteen minutes from Ithaca. No, this is their own little pond--quite a luxury. Joni was once quoted as saying that the one luxury she needed was a swimming pool. I think she might have to have a pond, if she could have skated on the one I skated on last night. You lost me a bit, Don, with the quote. Huh? Mark K. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:28:49 -0500 (EST) From: "Mark T. Klempner" Subject: Re: Re[2]: the tape... Pat, thanks for posting the complete words to "Just Like Me"! Have to try those out. Talking about "Suzanne," does anyone know much about Joni's relationship with Leonard Cohen? I know they were close very early on, and she considered him a mentor or influence. Any stories/etc. anyone can share? He has such lyrical gifts that it would seem natural that they would connect, esp. with Canada in common. Mark K. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:29:56 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Songs That Make You Cry, was "Whoops"(SJC) I can only think of five, and they make me a little misty eyed: 1. Ghost of a Dog-Edie Brickell 2. When The Levee Breaks-LZ (?) 3. Last Time I Saw RIchard 4. Judgment of the Moon and Stars 5. Amelia At 8:06 AM -0800 12/29/98, Don Rowe wrote: > I guess I ought to make it a thread now ... so, let's have a list of > "Top 10 Songs That Make Me Cry" ... ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:33:25 EST From: Drewdix@aol.com Subject: Re: Whoops! In a message dated 98-12-29 11:01:27 EST, you (Don) wrote: << So be honest, do you get misty-eyed >every time you put on 'Hejira'? >> Every time. Lots of butterflies in the stomach; that rising, welling up feeling that comes from deep in there somewhere...It's an ache, and it makes this my favorite record that I sometimes cannot hear! "white flags of winter chimneys waving truce against the moon in the mirror of a modern bank from the window of my hotel room" - -Drew sensitive male fan #3,987 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:46:38 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Songs that make you boo hoo In a message dated 29/12/98 16:01:27, jml@amweaver.com writes: << The only songs I can think of that will actually get me crying, that I can think of, are "Love At The Five And Dime" and There's A Light Beyond Theses Woods(Mary Margret)" by Nanci Griffith and "Watermelon In Easter-Hay" by Frank Zappa. >> I feel a thread coming on... I must be a hard-hearted old sod, but there aren't any songs that can get me bawling. However, there are some that do induce what Tom Waits would call "mild precipitation", misting over of eyes, etc etc. Crowded House's "Together Alone" - the title song, especially that bit at the end where the Maori choir comes in. Those familiar with my posts won't be surprised to know that Christine Collister also does it for me: her version of Stephen Fearing's "Beguiling Eyes" is just hearbreaking, and her own song "Always There" hits the spot too. Happy New Year y'all Azeem in London np: The Greater London Radio listeners' countdown of the top 100 tunes of the decade. Just had Portishead's "Sour Times" (number 80), and now at 79 it's Thomas Lang (I'd be amazed if anyone over the pond had heard of him - he's pretty bloody obscure here too. About the only thing I know about him that his real name is Tom Jones!) with "Feels So Right". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:24:49 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC new to the list Well forgive me but it was all before my time! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:33:47 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: picking on lawyers (was: Congress' morality play (NJC)) How do you stop an attorney drowning? Take your foot off his head! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:33:49 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Re[2]: the tape... - -- On Tue, 29 Dec 1998 08:07:15 Bob.Muller wrote: > >Pat wrote: > > all four of these might be on that tape, if it was, indeed, recorded in '67... >*S* > pat >ps - and if you have "Circle" and "Urge" on that tape you really have a >treasure! > >Pat, > >I just received the tape(s) yesterday and they are certainly a treasure. >Last night my son was doing a spend-the-night with a pal & my wife went to >her folks house to visit so it was just me & the stereo! The songs you >mention are all there - she also does a cover of Neil Young's "Sugar Mt.". >Did they ever play together to your recollection? Joni also mentions a folk >club in Flint, MI called the "sipping lizard". Having briefly lived in >Flint and remembering that you were in that area as well, are you familiar >with that club? > > Bob > > bob, sounds great! sure wish I had tapes of Joni live during those days! how about that?! another cover! never heard her do that, I know, because I was a Buffalo Springfield fan before I met Joni and would have recognized it... must be awesome! *S* yes I definately remember (actually, it was) the "Sippin' (not Sipping) Lizard" in Flint, being the booking person for the Cellar, AND a performer, I was well aware of all the local places one could get a gig... you had the Raven, the Lizard, the Chessmate and the Cellar plus a place in ann arbor I can't recall the name of... actually it was probably Joni's pregnancy and delivery that cause her and Chuck to be acutely aware of places one could play locally, though Chuck would've known anyway since he was from detroit, since they couldn't take a newborn on the national circuit and would want to be able to come back to their own 'tenament castle' after a gig... I played at the Lizard once when the whole gang of us from the Cellar went on sort of a 'group date' to visit them... think Joni played that night also... *S* pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 12:36:25 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Whoops! In a message dated 12/29/98 10:42:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, jml@amweaver.com writes: << I think crying is the way in which your body releases overloaded emotional energy. I can't help but cry when I really think about how much I love my wife. Hell, I'm getting misty just thinking about it now. It's because I'm sad. It's just more than I can contain. I meant: It's **Not** because I'm sad. It's just more than I can contain. John~ >> Laughing and crying, you know it's the same release. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 12:37:44 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Whoops! In a message dated 12/29/98 10:50:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, dgrowe@hotmail.com writes: << So be honest, do you get misty-eyed every time you put on 'Hejira'? I still do, even though I've heard it more than my own name ... how's that for a "male Joni fan" confessional!? ;-) Don Rowe >> It is "Down to You" that does that to me, I suppose in a wistful sort of way. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:41:55 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Like a River Actually, no I didn't say anything. The thought crossed my mind but I didn't think Joni and Carly would be confused. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:47:27 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Women vs. men fans (related JC) Well till this list I have never met another Joni(or Carly ) fan at all. As for the men on this list we are gay, or if not so fortunate, are at least in touch with with our feelings-although there are one or two who are in touch with something else. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:58:39 -0600 From: "Gerald Hillman" Subject: Re: Picking on lawyers (NJC) Susan Chaloner wrote: >Here in Canada you might never use your bullet proofing: you're more >likely to get hit by paint-balls :~D And don't forget to watch out for that pepper-spray! Yet, our PM will tell you only that pepper is good on steak. ;-) On the way to work the other morning, I saw two youths (about 15 yrs old) fighting at a bus stop. One started to run away, and the other was chasing after him with A HATCHET in his hand!!! "Where is hope while you're wondering what went wrong?" Gerald (on an open prairie with more jive than wisdom) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:02:53 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Women vs. men fans (related JC) Colin writes ... "As for the men on this list we are gay, or if not so fortunate, are at least in touch with with our feelings-although there are one or two who are in touch with something else." > Why Colin ... whatever can you mean? ;-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:05:45 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Picking on lawyers (NJC) Gerald writes ... >On the way to work the other morning, I saw two youths (about 15 yrs old) >fighting at a bus stop. One started to run away, and the other was chasing >after him with A HATCHET in his hand!!! > Ever since that blasted "Last of the Mohicans" movie, the place just hasn't been the same ... ;-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:25:05 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Songs That Make You Cry, was "Whoops"(SJC) Don Rowe wrote: > > I guess I ought to make it a thread now ... so, let's have a list of > "Top 10 Songs That Make Me Cry" ... > > 1. Secret Garden -- Judy Collins > 2. Hejira > 3. The Chinese Cafe > 4. More Than This -- Roxy Music > 5. Memory -- A L Webber (so shoot me!) > 6. Not Like This -- Al Jarreau > 7. Fragile -- Sting > 8. The Friends of Mr. Cairo -- Jon Anderson/Vangelis > 9. Millworker -- James Taylor > 10. River of Tears -- Eric Clapton > Secret Garden and Millwork are my top also. #!: Hello in There, written by John Prine, especially sung by Bette. When I sang it in cabaret concerts it also brought tears. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:25:22 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Re[2]: the tape... - -- On Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:28:49 Mark T. Klempner wrote: >Pat, thanks for posting the complete words to "Just Like Me"! Have to try >those out. > >Talking about "Suzanne," does anyone know much about Joni's relationship >with Leonard Cohen? I know they were close very early on, and she >considered him a mentor or influence. Any stories/etc. anyone can share? >He has such lyrical gifts that it would seem natural that they would >connect, esp. with Canada in common. > >Mark K. > > mark, yer welcome, though I think I made a mistake... on the last verse it SHOULD be "...he's free to be empty and lonely and lost..." (NOT 'lonely and empty and lost'!) sorry, no info there... all I know is that she knew him and that she liked his music... at least, some of it. wish I could be more help... pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:33:07 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Perry Como Sings Joni Yes it's true ... and I wouldn't have believed it myself until I saw a TV ad for "The Best of Perry" on CD this morning ... and there's the old boy doing his best Bill Murray impression of "The Circle Game" ...who knew? Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:51:33 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: the tape... In a message dated 12/29/98 12:38:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, badwolff@angelfire.com writes: << you had the Raven, the Lizard, the Chessmate and the Cellar plus a place in ann arbor I can't recall the name of.. >> Maybe The Ark? Or The Blind Pig? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:56:57 -0500 (EST) From: Sue Subject: Top ten songs that make you cry Well please take into consideration that this changes depending on the time of the month . On the 27th day even Night in the City could make me cry . In no particular order: Shades of Scarlet Conquering - JM Imagine -John Lennon American Pie - Don McLean Little Green - JM Tears in Heaven - Clapton Hey Jude - Beatles Impossible Dreamer - JM Landslide - Fleetwood Mac Everybody Hurts - REM Mandolin Wind - Rod Stewart Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:26:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Mark T. Klempner" Subject: BLUES LEGEND PLEAS TO MAYOR DALEY TO SAVE MAXWELL ST. (fwd) For immediate release: 12/29/98 Contact: Professor Steve Balkin 312-341-3696; *BLUES LEGEND PLEAS TO MAYOR DALEY TO SAVE MAXWELL ST.: HER MOANS HEARD ALL OVER THE WORLD* It is a mixture of old Delta style Chicago Blues and new high technology. Maxwell Street veteran and Blues legend, 77 year old Johnnie Mae Dunson, expresses her sorrow to Mayor Daley upon hearing that demolitions on old Maxwell Street may be taking place as early as this January. That audio tape has been placed on the Internet as sound files and is being heard all over the world. One can hear it from websites in such diverse places such as Kalamazoo, Michigan; York Beach, Maine; and The Netherlands. A copy, as an ordinary analog cassette tape, has also been sent to Mayor Daley and University of Ilinois at Chicago'’s Chancellor Broski. Her expressions of sorrow are split into two parts: a verbal plea and an impromptu lament she made up on the spot: A Maxwell Street Moanin Blues. Frank ‘Little Sonny’ Scott (of The <1950’s> Everyhour Blues Boys), an time bluesman also from the Maxwell St. neighborhood, was visiting at the time and he accompanied her on guitar. When blues historian Chuck Cowdery heard this he said, "That’s real grassroots blues, people communicating thei feeling, informally face to face, flat out, no pretense. It'’s how she feels. We were just lucky that a tape recorder happened to be on. When I heard it, it got to me, right in my soul." Johnnie Mae Dunson got her start playing on Maxwell Street in the 1940s playing drums for dancer Eddie 'Pork Chop' Hines. She is a singer, drummer, and song writer spending several years writing and playing for Blues great Jimmy Reed. She had to move recently as her house was condemned by the City of Chicago. Further, she was hospitalized a short time ago, suffering from congestive heart failure. She says, "the City forcing me out of that house was a Death Sentence." Still, she found the energy to come to Maxwell Street to sing at protests in August and September. She said that before she dies, she wants to do some things: she wants to live in her house again, record some CDs, and save Maxwell Street. She is also worried about her friend and fellow Blues musician, 67 year old Jimmie Lee Robinson, who is on a protest hunger fast to save Maxwell Street. Says Steve Balkin, secretary of the Maxwell Street Historic Preservation Coalition, "I am worried about all of them. Johnnie Mae's Maxwell Street moaning lament is bone chilling and low down in its sadness. Frank Scott Jr. is so sad too. And Jimmie Lee is taking too big a risk to be on this fast so long. I hope this lament is a prayer that works rather than being a song of mourning." Visit the Coalition's website to hear Johnnie Mae Dunson’s Plea and Lament. - -000- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:30:58 -0500 From: "Stephen Waterbury" Subject: Re: Like a River How embarrassing! I did not actually see the television..... and relied on voice alone in a room with people talking.... but still. Oops! Thank you very much for solving my mystery. Embarrassed in Michigan >>> Mark or Travis 12/28 10:19 PM >>> > > The song I am looking for is a song about Joni's mother, and Joni's transformation from loving her like a daughter, to loving her like a river..... does anyone know which album this might be on, or is it new? I have not found it on any recent album..... Thanks. Colin has probably already told you this but this is a Carly Simon song you're talking about here. She wrote it after her mother's death and it's really quite beautiful: Dear Mother, the struggle is over now And your house is up for sale We divided your railroad watches Among the four of us I fought over the pearls With the other girls But it was all a metaphor For what is wrong with us As the room is emptying out Your face, so young, comes into view And on the back porch Is a well-worn step And a pool of light that you can walk into I'll wait no more for you Like a daughter That part of our life together Is over But I will wait for you, forever Like a river... I won't post the whole lyric as I might get my you-know-what fried for taking up so much bandwidth on the Joni list with a Carly Simon lyric;-) Mark in Seattle (the song is on Carly's 'Letters Never Sent' album, btw) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:36:31 +0000 From: terstan Subject: password Wheredo i sign up to get a password to vote on the album and songs on the jmdl homepage...anybody....thanks mike (terstan) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:35:28 -0800 From: Michael Heath Subject: P Henry Hi, Haven't been here in while. Pat's stories are all true. Bill Mandt was the art teacher at Port Huron High School who with the help of a couple of other teachers, took a bunch of us students who were into art and music and did two things. He started a Saturday bowling team. Then had us take over this basement of a downtown building and after cleaning and painting the place black with white murals. I got the chore of painting the entrance stairway walls with abstract stuff. We called it the Cellar. It became the site for an amazing array of performers including Chuck and Joni Mitchell. The Cellar went through several opening and closings over the years though some of us were there through it all. As Pat has mentioned, he came into the scene when it was in its Cellar III incarnation. That was the time of the Moss brothers, Brian and Michael and Dave Casado and new people like Pat . And yes, he sat around with Joni, and yes they played together. And yes, Joni used to jam new material with whoever could play. People sat around in the dressing room and jammed and sang all the time. It was a fairly small room so people were usually sitting on top of each other. It was fun. I found some old Times Herald news clippings with photos that show the group of us in front of our paintings just as we were opening the Cellar. I'll try to get them scanned and post them, just so you can see the place and us and see that neither Pat nor I are BS-ing anyone. Somebody had to be there when Joni started...the price we pay for that is that we are old now!:) I'm 49...Pat's got to be that or close. cul heath ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:46:26 -0500 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: Top ten songs that make you cry Hi Suze and welcome back! At first I could not think of any particular song that makes me get teary, but your listing of >American Pie - Don McLean reminds me that his "Vincent" can elicit this response faster than any other song I love...Joni's included. When I listen to Joni, I am usually so cheered, even with the saddest of the sad of her writings, as each is an expression of the human condition that makes me identify and project and relate to in a way that is therapeutic for me. For some reason it heartens(s) me such that I am happier when listening... Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:54:15 -0500 From: Claud.Loren.Carter@ccMail.Census.Gov Subject: Top ten songs that make you cry (NJC) All, Maybe I'm an unfeeling, insensitive slob, but I've only cried at one song that I can remember. It was during a home town theater groups' (the Port Tobacco Players, for you DC natives) production of a USO style show. There were a lot of older folks in the audience, and when the cast started singing "I'll be home for Christmas" most of the audience was in tears. Well, me too. I've never lost someone in a war, but seeing all those folks touched, touched me also. It must be the same reason that whenever I go to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in downtown DC I lose it. Personally, I don't know of anyone who died in that or any other war, but the somber atmosphere and remembrances left at the wall always cause me to tear up. Maybe I feel the loss of a loved one being experienced by the folks there and I (like Bill Clinton) feel their pain. Guess I'm a big old softee. Now I do cry at movies. "Ghost" gets me every time, and I have to watch it like a mental patient every time it's on. I sit there slack jawed and watch it over and over and over and over....every damm time. There are about a dozen movies that I have to stop and watch whenever they are on. I'll make note of them if anyone's interested. Chances are, one's on tonight. Loren.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:16:13 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Women vs. men fans (related JC) Don wrote: Well if I haven't managed to offend everyone on this list, I'm sure I will now. Because this kind of talk offends ME: I am a man. I rule the remote control. I drink beer and curse and fart. I love professional football AND professional wrestling (wrasslin' for you Southerners). Whoa there Don - don't be offended by being stereotyped and then throw something like this out there for the benefit of us Southerners ;~D (I know you're just joshin' so no big deal - and if you're not joshin' I'll open my can of Ric Flair whupass on ya'...;~D) I eat red meat every chance I get. And I love Joni Mitchell. What I don't understand is why this has to be such a contradiction. Of course, I'm also a keyboard player and a poet. I cook really well. I love John Irving novels. Hmmm ... maybe I'm not so traditional as I seem -- vive la differance! :-) I think anytime we stereotype or assume about people we're asking for trouble; Like Joni says, it all creates a "Borderline" if we focus on the differences. I'd rather focus on the similarities. For instance, to help football lovin' men appreciate Joni, one could offer the following comments: Football guy: Did you know the Kansas City Chiefs used to be known as the Dallas Texans? Me: That's neat trivia, sort of like Joni Mitchell whose name was originally Roberta Anderson... Football guy: Boy, Denver's had a great year, huh? Me: Oh sure, but for great years just look at Joni Mitchell's 1998 - she toured twice, played at Woodstock, released a CD which is turning up on everyone's "best of '98" list, she's just now hitting her stride! Football guy: Well, the Steelers have sure sucked! Me: You bet, they're to the NFL what "Dancin' Clown" is to "Chalkmark In A Rainstorm". And so on...... Bob M in the heavenly South ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 12:32:34 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Women vs. men fans (SJC) Sorry football guy, but I've got to call a flag down on this play -- if anyone asks me what really think of Joni's talent, I'll often answer, "Well anyone who can put Billy Idol and Tom Petty together on a song and have it actually work has got to be a genius of some kind." > Me: You bet, they're to the NFL what "Dancin' Clown" is to "Chalkmark > In A Rainstorm". > Speaking of Ric Flair, I remember when Fritz Von Erich used to bust him open like a ripe melon with the old Iron Claw at the Sportatorium in beautiful downtown Dallas. Of course, rasslin' was real back then ... ;-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:47:44 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[4]: Women vs. men fans (SJC) Don wrote: "Well anyone who can put Billy Idol and Tom Petty together on a song and have it actually work has got to be a genius of some kind." Well, Don, there's the rub...it DOESN'T work as far as I'm concerned... Bob, not the football guy but the other guy I referred to as "me" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 12:49:10 -0800 (PST) From: LucasBC@webtv.net (Luke Bierlein) Subject: Joni Following Hey everyone! So I guess one of the discussions on the list is regarding Joni's fan following and why they... follow. Like I've said, I'm 17 years old and discovered Joni for myself about three and a half years ago. I think that young people may have a different perception of Joni. When I began listening to her music, I was into Alanis Morissette and had started listening to Sarah McLachlan. In the beginning, I loved that Joni's music was so honest. The music was simple and beautiful and the lyrics were... indescribable really. When I found "Ladies of the Canyon" and began exploring, it was like i was realizing that Joni was the real thing. The last few years have been deemed the "Women In Rock" years, and I love the music those women make. But when you listen to Joni, she's just so much better. Her early music could be made SO popular if it was mixed just a little bit, made to fit with the music of the late '90s because she is what the women rockers of this generation are really striving for. So I have more respect for her than for my other favorites like Sarah, Natalie Merchant, Tori Amos, etc. I think Joni has a great following that has been with her throughout most of her career, but she is indeed picking up new fans like me and a few others on this list. Granted, I was first turned on by music she produced over thirty years ago, but I have the same respect for her current albums. I could never give "TTT" to a friend and expect them to listen to it, but I think a few of my peers might sit through "Blue" or "Court and Spark", and maybe one or two of them would become fans. She did thirty years ago what the popular women are doing today, just in a slightly different way. And I like that students don't walk around my high school humming "Woodstock", because then I can go home and have this record that is so personal because it's not completely out there. It was at one time, but now it's a little more obscure, especially with my age group. So her music has become completely personal (to my generation) while it's aged. I'm sure Joni will always have new fans, even when she (gasp) stops making music. There will, for a long time, be teenagers who discover Joni for themselves, and not because it's drilled into them on high rotation radio play. Oh, and my parents have one Joni album between the two of them--"Court and Spark". The only time I think it's ever been played in this house was when I wanted to hear it. My mother was obviously a part of that "trendy" fan crowd! :-) And sorry for the long post. I have difficulty expressing myself in one to two sentences. Luke "But the clock is another demon that devours our time in Eden..." 10,000 Maniacs, 'Eden' ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #529 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. Interested traders can get more details at http://www.jmdl.com/trading ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. 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