From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #528 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, December 29 1998 Volume 03 : Number 528 The Song and Album Voting Booths are open again! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Congress' morality play (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Congress' morality play (NJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] the tape... ["P. Henry" ] Re: JMDL Digest V3 #527 ["Ryan Lantrip" ] NJC- Rickie Lee [MP123A321@aol.com] Re: Congress' morality play (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] Who is Rickie Lee Jones? (NJC) [bab_news ] Re: Congress' morality play (NJC) ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re[2]: Congress' morality play (NJC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Congress' morality play (NJC) ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re: the tape... [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] (SJC) The present of a lithograph....the results.... [Claud.Loren.Carter@] Re: (NJC) Irresponsible REPs, etc. [MHart16164@aol.com] MTV's 100 Greatest Rock&Roll Artists special ["Leong, Dennis" ] Re: (NJC) Irresponsible..plus psych evaluation [MHart16164@aol.com] Re: (NJC) Irresponsible REPs, etc. [MHart16164@aol.com] Re: (NJC) Irresponsible..plus psych evaluation [MHart16164@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V3 #526 [Stacey4882@aol.com] Re: (NJC) Irresponsible..plus psych evaluation [Susan Chaloner ] Re: Dear Acoustic Guitar letter ["John M. Lind" ] Re: NJC new to the list [catman ] Re: Dar Williams & Gillian Welch [catman ] Re: (NJC) Irresponsible REPs, etc. [catman ] Oh what a year it has been (SJC) [Sue ] Re[2]: the tape... [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: NJC new to the list [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Oh what a year it has been (SJC) [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Presents for Christmas(NJC) ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re: Presents for Christmas(NJC) [TerryM2442@aol.com] New Joni Following? Or same old one? ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Presents for Christmas(NJC) -Reply [Mary Grace Valentinsson ] Re: picking on lawyers (was: Congress' morality play (NJC)) ["M & C Urban] Re: picking on lawyers (was: Congress' morality play (NJC)) ["Kakki" ] Re: Re[2]: the tape... ["P. Henry" ] Re: picking on lawyers (was: Congress' morality play (NJC)) ["=?iso-8859-] Re: Re[2]: the tape... [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: New Joni Following? Or same old one? ["Deb Messling" ] I'm glad I have a pond I can skate away on . . . ["Mark T. Klempner" Subject: Re: Congress' morality play (NJC) Mark K. quoted the other Gore: >There was a great editorial by Gore Vidal in this week's "Nation." Here's >a paragraph from it: > >What began as a sort of Restoration comedy, "The Impeachment of the President," on a frivolous, >irrelevant matter, is suddenly turning very black indeed, and all our political >arrangements are at risk as superstitious Christian fundamentalists and >their corporate manipulators seem intent on overthrowing two presidential >elections in a Senate trial. This is no longer comedy. This is >usurpation." As the rhetoric keeps ever-expanding in all this, can someone please let me know when the entire Republican party became totally controlled and made up of Christian fundamentalists? I keep seeing this alluded to here and would really like to know the actual statistics on this. I have always been under the impression that fundamentalist Christian sects still comprise a very small minority in this country among all religious affiliations, but maybe I'm not up on things. Also, why in the world would "corporate manipulators" want to "overthrow" a president in the midst of one of the greatest economic periods we've enjoyed in a long time? And why would these corporations want to have a close relationship with, and be motivated to manipulate, Christian fundamentalists? Is there more in the article which explains this connection that Vidal makes? This sounds like the same kind of desperate rhetoric that abounded during the Nixon impeachment proceedings. If you don't see it, try substituting the words "superstitious Christian Fundamentalists" with "subversive liberal athiests", and "their corporate manipulators" with "their Communist manipulators" and this could have been written by a card-carrying John Birch Society member in 1974. Haven't we evolved just a little bit in 25 years to not so quickly fall for this kind of stuff? Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 04:12:44 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Congress' morality play (NJC) In a message dated 12/28/98 3:20:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << This sounds like the same kind of desperate rhetoric that abounded during the Nixon impeachment proceedings. If you don't see it, try substituting the words "superstitious Christian Fundamentalists" with "subversive liberal athiests", and "their corporate manipulators" with "their Communist manipulators" and this could have been written by a card-carrying John Birch Society member in 1974. Haven't we evolved just a little bit in 25 years to not so quickly fall for this kind of stuff? Kakki >> I think you may have found the key to (Lily Tomlin's operator voice here) "Mr. Veedal's" plagiarism. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:17:57 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: the tape... hi luke... nice to meet ya! I was the main speculator re: "Little Green"... heard many of Joni's live performances in '67 and don't think I ever heard the song until "Blue", though, considering the 30yr gap, I could be wrong... so thanks for the info! pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 03:27:10 CST From: "Ryan Lantrip" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V3 #527 > Re: Rickie Lee Jones Sucked last year Excuse my grand musical ignorance, but who the fudge is Rickie Lee Jones? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 05:50:02 EST From: MP123A321@aol.com Subject: NJC- Rickie Lee Regarding Rickie Lee recent post: << I thought she was rude and disrespectful, also that she sucked, and I was glad I had never purchased any of her albums.>> I saw her during her Flying Cowboys Tour , I believe opening gig of the tour, and she was really phenomenal. Played long, voice in good shape, and real great selection of songs. <> I recently got a vhs tape with Stewart's Coat video clip.....what a great song and interesting video to see Rickie Lee with her daughter(?) How is the Ghosthead CD? I really like the live one from a few years back. Maurice ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 06:03:43 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Congress' morality play (NJC) Yesterday I saw this bumpersticker on the back of a brand new shiny BMW driven by an equally shiny-looking woman: Proud Member Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy Although I'm not a right-winger myself, I still saw the humor ... but I admit that I had to resist an instinctive urge to ram her with my Chevy adorned with its Darwin fish, AIDS ribbon, and Human Rights Campaign stickers. Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 04:27:20 -0800 From: bab_news Subject: Who is Rickie Lee Jones? (NJC) In a post entitled 'Re: JMDL Digest V3 #527', Ryan Lantrip asked: >who the fudge is Rickie Lee Jones? Many feel she is one of the most significant and influential contemporary songwriters/performers of our time. Like Joni, she's fiercely independent, not letting the music business accountants (or her fans) dictate where she explores musical boundaries. For anyone interested in pursuing this subject further, here are some websites which may provide more detailed answers to Ryan's question: babnews ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:41:42 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Congress' morality play (NJC) - ---------- > From: Kakki > To: Mark T. Klempner ; joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Congress' morality play (NJC) > Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 3:07 AM > > As the rhetoric keeps ever-expanding in all this, can someone please let me > know when the entire Republican party became totally controlled and made up > of Christian fundamentalists? I keep seeing this alluded to here and would > really like to know the actual statistics on this. I have always been under > the impression that fundamentalist Christian sects still comprise a very > small minority in this country among all religious affiliations, but maybe > I'm not up on things. Also, why in the world would "corporate manipulators" > want to "overthrow" a president in the midst of one of the greatest economic > periods we've enjoyed in a long time? And why would these corporations want > to have a close relationship with, and be motivated to manipulate, Christian > fundamentalists? Is there more in the article which explains this > connection that Vidal makes? > Kakki > Now, now, let us not forget the narcissism! After all who started the "conspiracy; right wing is out to get me" stuff? None other than Hill & Billy. "Narcissistic people may often use denial & DEVALUATION of others to maintain an inflated self concept...These are tools with which they take the offensive in response to criticism." Isn't it rather bizarre that fundamentalist Christians are to blame for all of this & yet Bill associates himself with the biggest fundamental group of all- Baptists? I'd bet they are pulling there hair out over that association. Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 08:51:33 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Congress' morality play (NJC) Kakki wrote: As the rhetoric keeps ever-expanding in all this, can someone please let me know when the entire Republican party became totally controlled and made up of Christian fundamentalists? I keep seeing this alluded to here and would really like to know the actual statistics on this. I have always been under the impression that fundamentalist Christian sects still comprise a very small minority in this country among all religious affiliations, but maybe I'm not up on things. Kakki, from what I've read & seen the fundamentalist Christian involvement in politics has dropped off a bit - Ralph Reed resigned his post due to the failure of the Religious Right's failure to elect the majority of their candidates, so in actuality the trend is that Republicans are becoming more moderate. Of course, the impression is not so since they are some pretty squeaky wheels... Bob NP: Bruce Springsteen, "The Ties That Bind" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:02:19 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Congress' morality play (NJC) - ---------- > From: Mark T. Klempner > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Congress' morality play (NJC) > Date: Sunday, December 27, 1998 10:10 AM > > There was a great editorial by Gore Vidal in this week's "Nation." Here's > a paragraph from it: > > > Our monuments are the ever-expanding prisons, > where millions languish for having committed victimless crimes or for > simply not playing the game of plausible deniability (AKA lying) with a > sufficiently good legal team "There are no victimless crimes, I know of" Joni Mitchell (Nothing can be done) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:14:17 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: the tape... ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: the tape... Author: "P. Henry" at fdinet Date: 12/28/98 9:17 AM I was the main speculator re: "Little Green"... heard many of Joni's live performances in '67 and don't think I ever heard the song until "Blue", though, considering the 30yr gap, I could be wrong... Pat, Were there many/any of Joni's early songs that changed a lot from when you first heard them to the time when she finally got around to recording STAS & Clouds? Plus, was there a favorite song of hers (from your perspective) that was never recorded? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:03:23 -0500 From: Claud.Loren.Carter@ccMail.Census.Gov Subject: (SJC) The present of a lithograph....the results.... All, Well here's the skinny....I couldn't tell if my wife liked the TTT lithograph or not...she started crying as soon as she opened it up, and cried for 30 minutes. As a confirmed tree hugger, she was convinced that I had gotten her a tree (don't know where she ever got that idea ;-o ). Finally, she was able to say that she loved it, and that was "a special, special gift". After things started settling down (lots of family at my crib for the day/dinner/festivities) I started telling her all the twists and turns and roads I traveled to get it for her. I told her about all of you, especially Werner, who flew from Germany to NY just to see Joni and had the foresight to purchase and was looking at the very litho I was trying to find. The rest of the day we listened to Joni music, first on the CD player was TTT, Lucy spent a lot of time looking at the litho while listening to Joni (damm, I don't feel entitled simply to call her Joni, but she feels like a member of the family) I then told her not to worry about the long distance phone calls to and credit card purchase for the lady (Elane Geller) at Warner Brothers Records. Someone please remind me to call her when Warner Bros open up after the holidays to make sure the teddy bear I sent to her arrived. For Lucy's birthday on the 12th (Jan) I'll have the litho and the concert poster framed. She's already picked out a place on the wall for both of them. My holiday was wonderful, hope all of yours was also. Thanks for all of your help in making it come to fruition. Loren.....who's wondering what he will do to top this years' event? JFP (Just finished playing).... Woodstock....you know who, don't you?!?!? NP....Air....J.S. Bach...IMHO, the most beautiful piece of music these ears have heard, ever ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:03:36 EST From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Irresponsible REPs, etc. Confession acknowledged. LOL. You're forgiven. Dominos, patrix, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:01:51 -0600 From: "Leong, Dennis" Subject: MTV's 100 Greatest Rock&Roll Artists special The balloting was done only among 600 Rock&Roll artists. Joni came in at #32. Her segment included soundbites from Jackson Browne and Peter Gabriel, snippets of live Court & Spark & Big Yellow Taxi (BBC '70), and a photo montage of Joni through the last three decades. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:09:04 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: the tape... Bob.Muller wrote: > Were there many/any of Joni's early songs that changed a lot from when > you first heard them to the time when she finally got around to > recording STAS & Clouds? Plus, was there a favorite song of hers (from > your perspective) that was never recorded? bob, no, I think joni was exceedingly faithful to re-presenting each song she performed the same on those two albums as far as I'm concerned... and since you have that taped performance, I would suspect that you'd agree. "Night In The City", for example, with it's beautiful spiraling falsetto refrain, was always a real 'rocker' (ie: a VERY high energy song) within the context of her live sets and generally left the people listening floating about a foot off their chairs in live performance... and I think anyone who'd heard her do it live would feel, as I do, that she did and incredible job of faithfully communicating that same energy and that feeling on STAS... but then she was still the same artist. I think one can see, for example, a greater difference between the songs she'd written back then but didn't record until later albums. "Circle Game" and "Urge For Going", for example, were her foremost songs in the 'old days' and, as one who was a listener to the 'coffeehouse Joni' I can remember puzzling over the conspicuous absence of these two on STAS... I mean, there was "Night", and "Michael", and "Seagull", so where were "Circle" and "Urge", one, her proclaimed favorite and both, her most popular?!?!? ...and where the heck did these other songs come from instead?!? GREAT songs, but totally new! could be that she left them for later, other albums because others had been recording those particular songs, I don't know... (there I go, speculating again... *L*) at any rate, these songs underwent more change by the time she finally recorded them... but then so did she as an artist. Joni taught me "Night" herself and I loved it though I could never do it justice... songs she did then which she never recorded? well, I already posted re: "Wizard of Is", the music directly from L.Cohen's "Suzanne", lyrics only by Joni, which she also taught me... and another song she taught me was "Just Like Me" which she said she wrote about Stephen Stills, at that time in Buffalo Sprignfield and whom I believe she said she went to high school with... other songs I can remember off the top of my head are: "Carnival In Kenora" and "Moon In The Mirror"... all four of these might be on that tape, if it was, indeed, recorded in '67... *S* pat ps - and if you have "Circle" and "Urge" on that tape you really have a treasure! Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:16:25 EST From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Irresponsible..plus psych evaluation Dead on. Just look how Monica is being looked at right now. The consensus is that Billy is just being a bad boy--Monica is deplorable. I really have a problem with the feminist issue. Paula Jones may or may not be on the up and up and she may be extreme in her ulterior motives. But how many women have put up will Billy Willy's advances and said nothing???? How many of us have put up with that kind of shit on the job and done nothing about it???? How may of us are willing to press charges, etc.? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:19:59 EST From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Irresponsible REPs, etc. In a message dated 98-12-24 16:04:35 EST, Marion wrote: << I feel that this kind of statement is flawed in the sense that Clinton > alledges he didn't lie under oath (at least in his Paula Jones > deposition) - that he took the narrowest meaning of "sexual relations" > and answered truthfully within that meaning. The Republicans have > chosen to ignore Clinton's legal argument and have judged him guilty of > perjury. >> Ah yes, but the prosecution went on to define "sexual relations" in a very specific way that meant more than just intercourse. Clinton tried to ride on the semantics of language but he ultimately perjured himself by denying any sex relations with Ms. M. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:21:55 EST From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Irresponsible..plus psych evaluation In a message dated 98-12-24 16:13:24 EST, you write: << Since when is sex degrading? I love it!!! :~) Merry Christmas Willy and remember: >> I think cigar usage sounds pretty damn degrading... "does your smile....debase while it admires" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:52:01 EST From: Stacey4882@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V3 #526 Dear Les, Terri, Kakki, Ashara, Pat, Mark, Jim, Bom M, John M, and Laurie (and anyone I missed?), Thanks for your support and ideas about the Joni Mitchell book! They are much appreciated. It's a lovely thing to have a community to turn to. I have indeed combed through Les and Wally's websites for articles, and will certainly be acknowledging their help (as well as the help of this community) at the beginning of my book. The websites have been enormously helpful. Best wishes to all, Stacey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:21:25 -0800 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: (NJC) Irresponsible..plus psych evaluation MHart16164@aol.com wrote: > I think cigar usage sounds pretty damn degrading... What are you talking about? Sex is only degrading if it's not consensual. If the parties are in agreement I fail to see what the problem is...and frankly, I'm sick to death of the male bashing going on everywhere...I like men...Most of them are pretty good guys... Susan L.A. Honey McBabe-"...They've been broken in churches and schools and molded to middle class circumstance..." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:28:29 -0500 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Presents for Christmas(NJC) Good idea, Marilyn. We need a "lighter" thread around here. I got the director's cut version of Monty Python & The Holy Grail(WS), Braveheart(WS), Ray Of Light, a book on Native American history, a lava lamp(I know they're tacy buut I love it, it's relaxing), a CD of traditional medievil instrumental and vocal music, a set of wood blocks(musical, not stacking), a full set of "Prismacolor" pencils(120) and best of all, my wedding ring(we couldn't afford to get it when we got married. Bob M. in SC wrote: >WNCW played "River" yesterday during their day of Christmas music... Oh, I'm sooooo jelous. WNCW is the best radio station in the material plane IMO and I miss it so much it's ridiculous. John~ NP "Aproximate" FZ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:36:50 -0500 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Re: Dear Acoustic Guitar letter Mark D. wrote: >I found this interesting letter on Acoustic Guitar's web page. >It would be really interesting to hear Joni play a mandocello!! :) >>snip<< >>Joni Mitchell did indeed make a trip to his store on Staten Island >>in 1976, where she bought a Gibson K-4 mandocello, built around 1915. >>It is a large (guitar-sized) version of the Gibson F-4 mandolin >>and is tuned C G D A, one octave below a mandola. A good friend of mine has a 1910 Gibson mandocello and I must say I'd love to hear Joni play *anything* on this instrument. The tone alone is just astounding! Once, my friend was viiting with the aforementiond mandocello and began playing along to "Mother" from Pink Floyd's The Wall on the stereo. I've been after him ever since to work this up proper for Mandocello and violin(and maybe hammered dulcimer). Wow. John~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:41:28 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC new to the list I only just found out Blanche Dubois is a character from a movir played by Elizabeth Taylor I think, A Street Car Named Desire? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:45:08 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Dar Williams & Gillian Welch Dar only has three and I love them all. End of The Summer is her latest. Madden wrote: > I have music certificates which are burning a hole in my pocket. > > I have heard a lot about the above two artists. > > What recommendations do the list members have as a first CD choice for Dar > & Gillian? > > Thanks. > > Anne - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:50:55 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: (NJC) Irresponsible REPs, etc. Oh God! What did I confess to? Can't remember. MHart16164@aol.com wrote: > Confession acknowledged. > LOL. > You're forgiven. > Dominos, patrix, etc. - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:14:05 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Dar & Gillian (NJC) Anne wrote: >What recommendations do the list members have as a first CD choice for Dar >& Gillian? "Mortal City" by Dar (but check out Cry, Cry, Cry too!) "Revival" by Gillian ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:16:48 -0500 (EST) From: Sue Subject: Oh what a year it has been (SJC) First off, a note of thanks for all those who privately mailed their concern at my absence from the list. Also, my apologies that I am not able to write all of you back individually to convey my gratefulness regarding your kind and caring thoughts. Real-life-interruptous hit me and I have only been able to lurk. Our little K-12 school has been trying to get the community to support a building proposal for the past four years. I have been spearheading the election campaigns, and this one was going to be close. To make a very long story short, we won the election and I am excited to say that by the year 2000 I will have a brand new computer lab to instruct in. This event comes very close to the one that actually tops my years "Top Ten". Of course my accidental "bumping into Joni" in Detroit ranks as 1st, followed closely by the not-so-accidental meeting at the bar and the time spent waiting for rides in the warm October sun outside the Townsend Hotel. Number Four is having my book of Poems and Lyrics signed by two people who I greatly admire, Wally and Joni. Fifth on the list is our school's bond proposal passing, allowing us to build a new elementary building attached to the existing school (with the wonderful new computer lab!!!). Sixth? A Day at the Garden and the subsequent parties at Don and Gene's RV and the Bates Motel. Number seven has to be the wonderful trip to Pittsburgh where I learned that I should accept rides from strangers throwing butterscotch candies. Eight is earning my certificate of Educational Technology through Michigan State University. Ninth has to be seeing Joni at the Palace. This would be higher if it were not for the fact that I was still on cloud nine after running into her. The number ten thing to remember for me about the year 1998 was the fact that I could make friends based only on the written word. No prejudicial judgements from appearances or circumstances, just letters and musings, parodies and bruisings. So much learned in twelve short months, thanks in a big part to Wally and Les. When I look over my top ten things and have eight of them deal with happenings directly related to Wally's site and this list, it really adds perspective. Thanks to all who have made this a year to remember for me. NP: REM - Man on the Moon Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:19:55 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: the tape... Pat wrote: Joni taught me "Night" herself and I loved it though I could never do it justice... songs she did then which she never recorded? well, I already posted re: "Wizard of Is", the music directly from L.Cohen's "Suzanne", lyrics only by Joni, which she also taught me... and another song she taught me was "Just Like Me" which she said she wrote about Stephen Stills, at that time in Buffalo Sprignfield and whom I believe she said she went to high school with... other songs I can remember off the top of my head are: "Carnival In Kenora" and "Moon In The Mirror"... all four of these might be on that tape, if it was, indeed, recorded in '67... *S* pat ps - and if you have "Circle" and "Urge" on that tape you really have a treasure! Pat, I hope some/all of this stuff is on the tapes which are heading my way as I speak! Since she taught it to you, do you recall the lyrics to "Wizard of Is" & "Just Like Me"? I'm just curious to know what they are... And thanks as always for your quick & detailed answer! I can't believe that I'm the only one with questions for you regarding Joni's early days...are you carrying on other non-list Joni conversations? If so, please include me in them...;~D Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:28:33 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC new to the list catman wrote: > > I only just found out Blanche Dubois is a character from a movir played > by Elizabeth Taylor I think, A Street Car Named Desire? She is indeed the main character in A Streetcar Named Desire, a play, then a movie. But the character was played by Vivien Leigh in the movie, and originated on stage by Jessica Tandy. It is (arguably) the best American play written. Elizabeth Taylor's memorable Williams' role was Maggie "the cat" in Cat On a Hot Tin Roof. Jerry np: Ann Hampton Callaway - After Ours ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:47:10 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: Oh what a year it has been (SJC) Suze wrote: Real-life-interruptous hit me and I have only been able to lurk. Our little K-12 school has been trying to get the community to support a building proposal for the past four years. I have been spearheading the election campaigns, and this one was going to be close. To make a very long story short, we won the election and I am excited to say that by the year 2000 I will have a brand new computer lab to instruct in. Congratulations Sue! It is way cool when hard work towards a good cause pays off! It inspires us all to keep fightin' the good fight... The number ten thing to remember for me about the year 1998 was the fact that I could make friends based only on the written word. No prejudicial judgements from appearances or circumstances, just letters and musings, parodies and bruisings. So much learned in twelve short months, thanks in a big part to Wally and Les. When I look over my top ten things and have eight of them deal with happenings directly related to Wally's site and this list, it really adds perspective. Thanks to all who have made this a year to remember for me. Amen & I second that emotion!! 98 brought me a stack of new Joni cassettes, TTT, a not-so-accidental meeting/conversation/autograph/photo session with Joni too, as well as this great community of folks - and IMO it's easier to make friends when all you get to see is the written word. No opportunities to make snap judgements/prejudiced decisions about people when all you see is what they think & feel... Bob M. in SC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:56:43 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Presents for Christmas(NJC) - ---------- > From: John M. Lind > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Presents for Christmas(NJC) > Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 12:28 PM > > > I got...(snip) , a full set of "Prismacolor" pencils(120) and > best of all, my wedding ring(we couldn't afford to get it when we got married. > > > John~ > NP "Aproximate" FZ WOW! Prismacolor pencils-120!!! That was an expensive gift! They are the best pencils as far as I'm concerned. Did you do a mini wedding ceremony & renew your vows? What a nice gift! Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:26:42 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Presents for Christmas(NJC) Heck, why not. I got: A Crate acoustic amplifier for when I get the nerve up to play beyond my basement audience, The book, "Memoirs of a Geisha" (anyone read it?), and A combo flashlight/siren keychain from...who else? My mother! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:28:37 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: New Joni Following? Or same old one? Okay, my good friend asked me to settle an interesting question. It's this: "Are there new masses of fans discovering Joni Mitchell ... or is her audience the same one she's basically had since the '70s?" I contended that probably the majority of the faithful have been buying her albums for years, and that her audience is being maintained by a slow and steady devout few. Certainly we all spread the gospel of the SIQUOMB as best we can. But I don't think there's been a landmark, blow-out album, such as "Nick of Time", that made Bonnie Raitt a household name overnight, for example. So I'll throw it open for comments. I'd particularly like to hear from younger/newer members of the list. What's the perception of Joni out there amongst the 18-24 somethings? Thanks in advance for the input. Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 11:42:13 -0800 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: Re: Presents for Christmas(NJC) -Reply I can join in this one! I got: Sister Wendy's Story of Painting, (what else would a Catholic girl find under her tree?) Sister Wendy's Grand Tour, (clearly Santa was stuck in a rut) Sister Wendy's Vatican Bar-B-Que Secrets gift certificates for a deluxe massage MG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 14:04:42 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: New Joni Following? Or same old one? There are only 2 people at my school who listen to Joni: me and one of my friends! I don't know how they got into her but I owe it all to my sister. She had Court and Spark and I got hooked on that like a cat on catnip. I think that those younger listeners on this list or wherever have parents that have listened to Joni when they were younger and they saved their records. Then their kids got into them. Mark, 17 and full of wisdom and jive! :-) NP-Led Zeppelin-Travelling Riverside Blues At 11:28 AM -0800 12/28/98, Don Rowe wrote: > So I'll throw it open for comments. I'd particularly like to hear from > younger/newer members of the list. What's the perception of Joni out > there amongst the 18-24 somethings? Thanks in advance for the input. ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:24:19 +0100 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Winfried_H=FChn?=" Subject: picking on lawyers (was: Congress' morality play (NJC)) Mark T. Klempner related: > "We are now enslaved by laws. We are governed by lawyers. We create > little but litigate much. to which Susan added: >Well, I just finished putting the finishing touches on another painting >this morning...but then I'm not American, I do most everything without a >license and I'd piss a tequilla ananconda in the lawyer's fireplace ;~) I do have a question that might have some relevance for me in a (hopefully) not too distant future: for a European lawyer travelling to the U.S./Canada, is it advisable to print "attorney... etc. etc." on one's business card, or should one rather use a less provocative and more socially acceptable profession, e.g. "Mafia boss", or "Saddam follower" in order to avoid getting shot/lynched upon trying to introduce oneself? Winfried, very sorry about not having a fireplace in his apartment, buying a bulletproof vest for his next visit to the American continent :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:29:03 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Little Green (early performance of) and Xmas gifts Bob, Pat, and all: Happy Holidays to everyone. Yes Bob, the tapes are on their way to you as we speak! Tape Tree #3, Cassette #2, Side #2, Track #1 Little Green, as performed at the Second Fret (sigh) on October 12, 1967 during the second set (thank you simon) As for Xmas gifts, I got an airplane ride from Philadelphia to Columbus OH and back, with Xmas dinner at Denny's (the only place open along I-270) What else could a Jewish boy want for Xmas? :-) Brian === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:44:42 -0800 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: picking on lawyers (was: Congress' morality play (NJC)) Winfried Hühn wrote: > is it advisable to print "attorney... etc. etc." on one's business card, Absolutely! Americans love to be able to identify their targets ;~) Here in Canada you might never use your bullet proofing: you're more likely to get hit by paint-balls :~D Susan L.A. Honey McBabe-Eagerly anticipating your Winfried's north american tour ;~) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:52:17 -0500 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Re: Music and Tears (NJC) I think crying is the way in which your body releases overloaded emotional energy. I can't help but cry when I really think about how much I love my wife. Hell, I'm getting misty just thinking about it now. It's because I'm sad. It's just more than I can contain. John~ NP "Ray Of Light" Maddona ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:23:57 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: picking on lawyers (was: Congress' morality play (NJC)) - ---------- > From: Susan Chaloner > To: joni@smoe.org > Cc: Winfried Hühn > Subject: Re: picking on lawyers (was: Congress' morality play (NJC)) > Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 3:44 PM > > Winfried Hühn wrote: > > > is it advisable to print "attorney... etc. etc." on one's business card, > > Absolutely! Americans love to be able to identify their targets ;~) > > Here in Canada you might never use your bullet proofing: you're more > likely to get hit by paint-balls :~D > > Susan L.A. > Honey McBabe-Eagerly anticipating your Winfried's north american tour > ;~) What do you throw a drowning attorney??? His partner!! What do you call 100 dead attorneys??? A good start!! Sorry I couldn't resist ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:20:37 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: picking on lawyers (was: Congress' morality play (NJC)) Winfried asked: >I do have a question that might have some relevance for me in a (hopefully) >not too distant future: for a European lawyer travelling to the U.S./Canada, >is it advisable to print "attorney... etc. etc." on one's business card, or >should one rather use a less provocative and more socially acceptable >profession, e.g. "Mafia boss", or "Saddam follower" in order to avoid >getting shot/lynched upon trying to introduce oneself? I don't know about the rest of the U.S. but if you come to Los Angeles, it is somewhat customary to be boldly right out front with it. Several of the brave here show off personal license plates such as "ISUEM", "LITG8TR", "LALAW", "IBRIEFM" along with the famous "JUST ICE" (which I actually spotted years ago on the freeway). Personal accessories with a humorous touch also work well, such as a tie with a discreet shark print motif. Kakki (who has great faith that Winfried will be one of the good ones) NP: Clapton - Circus (Gee, does he just keep getting better or what?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 13:33:58 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Presents for Christmas(NJC) For Xmas I got the Scully & Mulder X File action figures. Right now they're keeping Callisto company (she's my only other action figure.) I also got Kathie Lee Gifford's autobiography from one of my 'friends'. Yuck! What am I supposed to do with this? Xmas was funner when I believed in Santa, or at least when I got way more gifts. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 21:47:56 -0000 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Re[2]: the tape... Bob.Muller wrote: > > Pat, << And thanks as always for your quick & detailed answer! I can't believe that I'm the only one with questions for you regarding Joni's early days...are you carrying on other non-list Joni conversations? If so, please include me in them...;~D > Bob > bob, well, it's a little embarrassing to tell you that mostly what I appreciated, and learned, about 'Wizard' was the guitar part which enabled me to do 'Suzanne' (VERY popular song at the time and just released on Judy Collins' "In My Life" Album) which immediately became part of my set... never did learn the words, dammit! someone posted the lyrics to "Just Like Me" on the list a couple weeks ago, albeit, minus the first verse and with different lyrics than Joni taught it to me, (though they did say they learned it from a tape) but sure, I can 'sing' it for you (*S*) it also became one of my standards and I always loved it... it really 'hit home' with me, you might say...: he's so independent, he acts like he couldn't care less for us all he's someone's descendent, their child, though he'll never acknowledge their call he's afraid to feel loved, yet I know he's afraid not to be and he'll laugh and he'll cry, and someday he'll die, just like me cho: just like me, he's settling a score with a world that wants a reason every time you turn around just like me, he's lookin' for a door standing open, saying "welcome, come and lay your troubles down", just like me if he'd drop his defenses, you'd see through the stone to the heart of the man but the moment he senses you've seen him he'll leave you, as fast as he can he'll return to his shadows where no one can look in and see and he'll wake in the night and cry like a child just like me. cho well, I've seen him looking for someone to tell him, "you're doin' just fine." and the songs that he sings, they have loneliness woven between every line there are no strings to hold him I guess you could call him so free yes, he's free to be lonely and empty and lost just like me cho repeat: just like me..... what a song! *S* well, there ya go... pat ps - actually, I do write to some off list occasionally, but, truthfully, the reason I decided to endure the sarcasm I've been getting and post to the list is cause there are just so many who want to hear what I've got to share... Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:55:43 +0100 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Winfried_H=FChn?=" Subject: Re: picking on lawyers (was: Congress' morality play (NJC)) Kakki writes (LOL LOL LOL): >I don't know about the rest of the U.S. but if you come to Los Angeles, it >is somewhat customary to be boldly right out front with it. Several of the >brave here show off personal license plates such as "ISUEM", "LITG8TR", >"LALAW", "IBRIEFM" along with the famous "JUST ICE" (which I actually >spotted years ago on the freeway). Personal accessories with a humorous >touch also work well, such as a tie with a discreet shark print motif. There you go! Didn't Beck actually sing... "I'm a LAWYER Baby, why don't you kill me?" That's quite a nice motto right there! >Kakki (who has great faith that Winfried will be one of the good ones) Maybe, if I ever become *one* (only 7 days until the first exam -- PANIC!) Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:47:11 EST From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: the tape... In a message dated 12/28/98 3:50:12 PM Central Standard Time, badwolff@angelfire.com writes: << what a song! *S* well, there ya go... pat >> What a song indeed! And all the more amazing when you consider her age - I guess she was such an early bloomer, I can't relate ;~) Thanks for the serenade - Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:33:20 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: New Joni Following? Or same old one? I bet that those of us who entered the game from the first or second album are still around. I think that there was a small swell of trendy fans around the Court & Spark era who rapidly moved on to other things when the buzz wore off. Mark said: > There are only 2 people at my school who listen to Joni: me and one > of my friends! This was also true of me, in 1974! Maybe I didn't hang around with the right people, but it seems that even in her supposed heyday, Joni was a minority taste. OTOH, I have faith that discerning music lovers of all ages will continue to discover Joni, and so her catalog will not die. Joy be to you, and a jolly Wassail! ~Deb Messling ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:08:45 -0800 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: New Joni Following? Or same old one? Deb Messling wrote: > it seems that even in her supposed heyday, Joni > was a minority taste. Deb darlin', That was then and this is now! Toheyday Joni is selling out in the Cowichan Valley faster than they can get her in!!! Susan L.A. Honey McBabe-"...during times like these the wise are influential..."-JoniM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:20:18 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: New Joni Following? Or same old one? - ---------- > From: Deb Messling > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: New Joni Following? Or same old one? > Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 1:33 PM > > I bet that those of us who entered the game from the first or second > album are still around. I think that there was a small swell of > trendy fans around the Court & Spark era who rapidly moved on to > other things when the buzz wore off. > > Mark said: > > > There are only 2 people at my school who listen to Joni: me and one > > of my friends! > > This was also true of me, in 1974! Maybe I didn't hang around with > the right people, but it seems that even in her supposed heyday, Joni > was a minority taste. OTOH, I have faith that discerning music lovers of all ages will continue to > discover Joni, and so her catalog will not die. > ~Deb Messling Court & Spark was the Lp that sucked me in; I've been listening ever since. I too was the only person I knew at that time that listened to Joni. By accident a couple years later, I found out that my cousin was a big fan & we really bonded at that point. Her daughter is now 22 and has really gotten into Joni; I hope my daughter does the same someday. I'm as bad as an evangelical when it comes to spreading Joni around. It's really a bummmer when people don't share the same enthusiasm. Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 19:19:32 -0800 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: Like a River > > The song I am looking for is a song about Joni's mother, and Joni's transformation from loving her like a daughter, to loving her like a river..... does anyone know which album this might be on, or is it new? I have not found it on any recent album..... Thanks. Colin has probably already told you this but this is a Carly Simon song you're talking about here. She wrote it after her mother's death and it's really quite beautiful: Dear Mother, the struggle is over now And your house is up for sale We divided your railroad watches Among the four of us I fought over the pearls With the other girls But it was all a metaphor For what is wrong with us As the room is emptying out Your face, so young, comes into view And on the back porch Is a well-worn step And a pool of light that you can walk into I'll wait no more for you Like a daughter That part of our life together Is over But I will wait for you, forever Like a river... I won't post the whole lyric as I might get my you-know-what fried for taking up so much bandwidth on the Joni list with a Carly Simon lyric;-) Mark in Seattle (the song is on Carly's 'Letters Never Sent' album, btw) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:48:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Mark T. Klempner" Subject: I'm glad I have a pond I can skate away on . . . What a cool night I've had. I'm visiting some dear friends in upstate New York. They live in an old farmhouse in Trumansburg, home of the Grassroots Festival, if any of you have ever gone. They own quite a few acres around here, and across street from their house they have a pond. And guess what--it's all iced over! Tonight we all went out skating. Their son had made "ice lanterns" by freezing water in buckets, but stopping before the water is completely frozen. This leaves bucket size blocks of ice, each one with a hole in the middle. You then put a candle in the hole. He had seven of these placed around the pond. Between the moonlight and the ice lanterns, the effect was magical indeed. The ice was perfect, and the four of us skated and skated, and then sat down on the porch of the "pond house," a little cabin with a wood stove, and had some brandy and amaretto. Mark from Chapel Hill ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #528 ************************** There is now a JMDL tape trading list. 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