From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest)
To: joni-digest@smoe.org
Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #512
Reply-To: joni@smoe.org
Sender: les@jmdl.com
Errors-To: les@jmdl.com
Precedence: bulk
JMDL Digest Tuesday, December 15 1998 Volume 03 : Number 512
JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank
message to info-jonifest1999@jmdl.com for more info.
-------
The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available
now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details.
-------
The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at
http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio,
original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more.
-------
The JMDL website can be found at and contains
interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more.
==========
TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
--------
Re: tape tree*3*??, jazz recs-help!(SJC) [Joseph Palis ]
A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans ["Tyrer, Paul" ]
Re: Joni Slagging: Medical Reason??? ["Mark T. Klempner" ]
Fave Albums (NRJC) ["Phil Klein" ]
that Joni trouble ["John M. Lind" ]
Re: Re[2]: bye bye [RickieLee1@aol.com]
Re: (NJC) Klein (the big one) gets away [Susan Chaloner ]
Top 5 and then some... [Don Sloan ]
Re: (NJC) A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans [LRFye@aol.com]
jewel and judy collins--not joni [Tortorici@exchange.conference-board.org]
My Top 5 (...9 disguised as 5...) ["s. kelly" ]
Re: joni on the radio in America ["Marsha" ]
Re: Re[4]: Jersey Girl [IVPAUL42@aol.com]
Celebration at Big Sur Reminder (HBO/SIG) [kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant)]
Re: (?JC) Taking up the Kleins in Joni's slack [Susan Chaloner ]
top 5 albums ["Dave Doherty" ]
Re[2]: Joni Slagging: Medical Reason??? [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com]
Re: Jersey Girl(NJC) [Scott and Jody ]
Re: Jersey Girl(NJC) [RickieLee1@aol.com]
Cry Cry Cry (NJC) [Marilune@aol.com]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:41:02 +0800 (CST)
From: Joseph Palis
Subject: Re: tape tree*3*??, jazz recs-help!(SJC)
On Sat, 12 Dec 1998, Mary Becker wrote:
> One of the things I'm really enjoying on this list is the huge variety of
> musical tastes. The top 5 picks have been fun and revealing (I want to
> change some of mine already--I think!). Anyway, I picked up H. Hancock"s
> _Gershwin's World_ a couple weeks ago, and it has really grown on me. Then
> I decided I needed to check out Miles Davis _Kind of Blue_ after it showed
> up on so many top 5 lists. Like that too. And I am ready to venture further
> into jazz, but don't know where to begin! Any suggestions?? I don't even
> know what kind of jazz I like!
>
Hi Mary!
My girlfriend was never tolerant about my (morbid) fascination with jazz.
Believe me, I spent nights thinking what jazz record to give her that will
convert her to the genre that I like so much. The solution? Chet Baker.
Chet Baker is a trumpeter long associated with the West Coast type of
jazz. His type of trumpet playing is as hard to describe as it is hard to
find the English equivalent of the word "gestalt", but my girlfriend
learned to love jazz through Chet Baker and I think that you will like it
too despite the fact that you are more receptive to jazz. Go for Baker's
"My Funny Valentine" disc that had him shirtless on the cover with a girl.
Trust me, you will like him and the genre from now on... or if you're not
moved at first... it is that type of disc that grows on you...
Incidentally if you like jazz vocal, go for the following contemporary
s(w)ingers :
Dee Dee Bridgewater - either DEAR ELLA or LOVE AND PEACE (wink at
Winfried)
Nnenna Freelon - particularly HERITAGE, NNENNA FREELON and LISTEN.
Vanessa Rubin - PASTICHE or SOUL EYES or SINGS
Dianne Reeves - anything she recorded. I REMEMBER to me is her best.
Diana Krall - esp. ALL FOR YOU
or you can always rely on the legendary singers:
Ella Fitzgerald - THE INTIMATE ELLA, ELLA IN BERLIN, CLAP HANDS HERE COMES
CHARLIE
Sarah Vaughan - GERSHWIN LIVE, CRAZY AND MIXED UP
Billie Holiday - all her records are magic
Betty Carter - THE AUDIENCE WITH B.T.
Abbey Lincoln - YOU GOTTA PAY THE BAND
Shirley Horn - anything ... but HERE'S TO LIFE should be in anyone's
collection
... and there are many more who are just as good... Patricia Barber,
Susannah McCorkle, Diane Schuur... but the abovementioned should be
explored first.
More power!
Joseph
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:15:54 +0100
From: "Winfried Hühn"
Subject: Re: bye bye
Nicholas writes:
> Am I alone in thinking a) most of the information on this discussion
> group is boring and b) there is too much NJC content?
>
> After just a week on the list I am uns.ubscribing so that I can free up
> my server for things of interest and inteligence. Maybe if Ms Mitchell
> was actually a contributer to this group if would actually be worth
> tuning in to.
>
Hmmm, we'll never know, of course, but my guess would be she'd do
exactly the same as most of us here do: talk openly and freely about
anything which occupies our hearts and minds.
Even with much NJC -- this is a very Joni-ish list IMO. Take a look at
her songs and at what they are about.
Oh, I talk too loose,
Again I talk too open and free
I pay a high price for my open talking
Like you do for your silent mystery.
We could talk about Martha
We could talk about landscapes
I'm not above gossip
But I'll sit on a secret where honor is at stake!
Or we could talk about power...
About Jesus and Hitler and Howard Hughes...
(JM-- Talk To Me)
And that's exactly what we are doing here.
Winfried
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:49:18 -0000
From: "Tyrer, Paul"
Subject: A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans
Hmm, there's been a coupl'a things on the page that have been bothering me
recently. 1. Re Girly Guile/Joni's supposed recently developing 'illness'.
She's *always* been accused of being 'as arrogant as Mussolini' (D.Crosby).
'Nice' personalities don't make great art! 2. Re comments recently about gay
men being put on earth by God to model tolerance to heterosexuals... er, no.
Heterosexuals will have to sort out their own shit, I'm afraid. We're too
busy rushing aroung trying to avoid being verbally abused, kicked to death etc
etc to be models for anyone else. 3. Isn't the LP everyone's calling 'Song to
a Seagull' *in fact* called 'Joni Mitchell'? (I've always wondered...). 4. Re
Joni not knowing Turbulent Indigo - seems to me that Polio, recurrent polio,
throat lesions, losing your child, the end of your 10+ yr marriage is all
fairly turbulent stuff. 'My loves are dead or dying or they won't come near'
etc etc. But I always thought that the paintings on the TI cd were all tongue
in cheek anyway - an ironic dig at herself (despite her Mussolini tendencies) -
"poor me"! That's why she can look at glam and smiley in her studio on the
inside sleeve.
Love and festive hugs from
PaulXX
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:10:07 -0500
From: "M & C Urbanski"
Subject: Re: A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans
- ----------
> From: Tyrer, Paul
> To: 'joni@smoe.org'
> Subject: A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans
> Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 5:49 AM
>
> Hmm, there's been a coupl'a things on the page that have been bothering
me
> recently.
(SNIP)
2. Re comments recently about gay
> men being put on earth by God to model tolerance to heterosexuals... er,
no.
> Heterosexuals will have to sort out their own shit, I'm afraid.
3. Isn't the LP everyone's calling 'Song to
> a Seagull' *in fact* called 'Joni Mitchell'? (I've always wondered...).
4. Re Joni not knowing Turbulent Indigo - seems to me that Polio,
recurrent polio,
> throat lesions, losing your child, the end of your 10+ yr marriage is all
> fairly turbulent stuff. 'My loves are dead or dying or they won't come
near'
> etc etc.
>
> Love and festive hugs from
> PaulXX
Answers:
#2. A friend of mine lost his partner to cancer & I saw the pain he went
through in his loss. The same as when I lost my second daughter, the same
as anyone who loses a spouse. I learned a powerful lesson there. Frankly,
it's nobody else's business what we do in our own bedrooms.
#3 It's called Song to a Seagull...look at the seagulls on the front cover,
they spell it out.
#4 We all have turbulent indigo in our lives; I could write a book! In my
original gripe, I said I was going through a BoHo dance. Meaning as the
lyrics go..."The virtue of your style inscribed on your CONTEMPT for
mine...Books where artists in noble poverty Go like virgins to the grave."
I'm a struggling artist, I am frustrated right now. Joni's art is only
recognized because she's a famous recording artist. I resent that RIGHT
NOW. "Don't you get sensitive on me, "Cause I know you're just too proud,
You couldn't step outside the Boho dance now, Even if good fortune
allowed". Those words are smacking me in the face! "my loves are dead or
dying..." Job's Sad Song can be classified with Love from WTRF in that she
put the Bible story to music.
Joni is basically a fantasy in our lives (for those of us who haven't had
the pleasure of meeting her). She's an easy target for worship, praise and
attacks. We only know her by what we read, see on TV, and listen to from
her music. We all belong to this list because she has captured us with her
music. Her lyrics grab us by our hearts & minds and provoke us to dig deep
within. I think that is the reason why she is not a superstar. It takes
courage..."when you dig down deep you loose good sleep and it makes you
heavy company".
Honestly, I see the JMDL as a family. We vent with family members. I
vented here because we are all Joni lovers and I knew some would agree and
some would disagree. I was pleasantly surprised that I wasn't ostracized.
I feel more comfortable with the group now. Kind of like a child testing
my boundaries.
Marilyn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:44:39 -0000
From: "Tyrer, Paul"
Subject: RE: A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans
Hi Marilyn
Thanks for your venting reply! I agree with a lot of what you said. And I
like your capital letters too! But I guess that no matter what JM would like
people to say, it's her music people are turned on to. The art is an added
plus, but probably not much more. I'd still be buying JM records if they had
nice photos on the front. I guess that goes for most of you out there?
By the way, if you've got any scans of your art you could send me as an
attachment, I'd love to see it.
I know what you're saying about 'what happens in other people's bedrooms is
none of our business'. But if that were true, Matt Sheppard wouldn't be dead
right now. Heterosexuals and Lesbians/Gay men aren't the same, cos the latter
(in which I include myself) suffer discrimination and prejudice every day -
even if for the more fortunate of us, this is experienced in very minor and
seemingly insignificant ways. We're not equal, and no amount of saying so is
gonna make us equal. Yet!
PX
> -----Original Message-----
> From: M & C Urbanski [SMTP:artwear@ncweb.com]
> Sent: 14 December 1998 13:10
> To: Tyrer, Paul; 'joni@smoe.org'
> Subject: Re: A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans
>
>
>
> ----------
> > From: Tyrer, Paul
> > To: 'joni@smoe.org'
> > Subject: A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans
> > Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 5:49 AM
> >
> > Hmm, there's been a coupl'a things on the page that have been bothering
> me
> > recently.
> (SNIP)
> 2. Re comments recently about gay
> > men being put on earth by God to model tolerance to heterosexuals... er,
> no.
> > Heterosexuals will have to sort out their own shit, I'm afraid.
>
> 3. Isn't the LP everyone's calling 'Song to
> > a Seagull' *in fact* called 'Joni Mitchell'? (I've always wondered...).
>
> 4. Re Joni not knowing Turbulent Indigo - seems to me that Polio,
> recurrent polio,
> > throat lesions, losing your child, the end of your 10+ yr marriage is all
> > fairly turbulent stuff. 'My loves are dead or dying or they won't come
> near'
> > etc etc.
> >
> > Love and festive hugs from
> > PaulXX
>
> Answers:
> #2. A friend of mine lost his partner to cancer & I saw the pain he went
> through in his loss. The same as when I lost my second daughter, the same
> as anyone who loses a spouse. I learned a powerful lesson there. Frankly,
> it's nobody else's business what we do in our own bedrooms.
>
> #3 It's called Song to a Seagull...look at the seagulls on the front cover,
> they spell it out.
>
> #4 We all have turbulent indigo in our lives; I could write a book! In my
> original gripe, I said I was going through a BoHo dance. Meaning as the
> lyrics go..."The virtue of your style inscribed on your CONTEMPT for
> mine...Books where artists in noble poverty Go like virgins to the grave."
> I'm a struggling artist, I am frustrated right now. Joni's art is only
> recognized because she's a famous recording artist. I resent that RIGHT
> NOW. "Don't you get sensitive on me, "Cause I know you're just too proud,
> You couldn't step outside the Boho dance now, Even if good fortune
> allowed". Those words are smacking me in the face! "my loves are dead or
> dying..." Job's Sad Song can be classified with Love from WTRF in that she
> put the Bible story to music.
>
> Joni is basically a fantasy in our lives (for those of us who haven't had
> the pleasure of meeting her). She's an easy target for worship, praise and
> attacks. We only know her by what we read, see on TV, and listen to from
> her music. We all belong to this list because she has captured us with her
> music. Her lyrics grab us by our hearts & minds and provoke us to dig deep
> within. I think that is the reason why she is not a superstar. It takes
> courage..."when you dig down deep you loose good sleep and it makes you
> heavy company".
>
> Honestly, I see the JMDL as a family. We vent with family members. I
> vented here because we are all Joni lovers and I knew some would agree and
> some would disagree. I was pleasantly surprised that I wasn't ostracized.
> I feel more comfortable with the group now. Kind of like a child testing
> my boundaries.
>
> Marilyn
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:07:14 -0500
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re[2]: bye bye
So why do the people who protest about NJC or the quality of the
messages never post themselves? Nicholas Bates? Excuse me? Did he even
post once? I read everything and have no recollection of him!!
So sorry we didn't live up to his "superior" expectations :~)
Yeah, bye, bye Mr. Bates - don't let the door hitcha on the way out...
Bob M. in SC
NP: Screaming Trees "Dying Days" from Dust
PS - Paul, trust me dude - the true title is "Song To A Seagull", but
you wouldn't know it except for the evidence of 30 years ago...
PPS - I forget who was talking about "Jersey Girl" which Springsteen
covered and was included in his live box set. While his version is
good, I wanted to make sure that Tom Waits, the song's writer, got the
credit he so richly deserves - his studio version on "Hearttattack &
Vine" is better, and I say that as a huge Boss fan.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: bye bye
Author: "Winfried Hühn" at fdinet
Date: 12/14/98 10:15 AM
Nicholas writes:
> Am I alone in thinking a) most of the information on this discussion
> group is boring and b) there is too much NJC content?
>
> After just a week on the list I am uns.ubscribing so that I can free up
> my server for things of interest and inteligence. Maybe if Ms Mitchell
> was actually a contributer to this group if would actually be worth
> tuning in to.
>
Hmmm, we'll never know, of course, but my guess would be she'd do
exactly the same as most of us here do: talk openly and freely about
anything which occupies our hearts and minds.
Even with much NJC -- this is a very Joni-ish list IMO. Take a look at
her songs and at what they are about.
Oh, I talk too loose,
Again I talk too open and free
I pay a high price for my open talking
Like you do for your silent mystery.
We could talk about Martha
We could talk about landscapes
I'm not above gossip
But I'll sit on a secret where honor is at stake!
Or we could talk about power...
About Jesus and Hitler and Howard Hughes...
(JM-- Talk To Me)
And that's exactly what we are doing here.
Winfried
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:16:55 -0500
From: Roger Walker
Subject: Holiday .wav File
Greetings JMDL'ers!
Just a quick reminder that there's a mail notification .wav file
(opening piano, River) for the holidays if you'd like it. It's at:
http://users.erinet.com/2820/tape-trade-list.htm
(click on the holly image)
If you need help installing the file... feel free to write me
mailto:rwalker@erinet.com
- --
rog Happy Holidaze!!!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:33:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Mark T. Klempner"
Subject: Re: Joni Slagging: Medical Reason???
Heather wrote:
I don't comment on too many things on the list but, this one I thing I
will. Don't you think that Joni is just plain fed up? I am by no means
comparing myself to Joni but I have a parallel. In my profession, I was
naive at first. Worked hard at what I loved to do and as the years past
by I notice how big business just badgers a persons integrity sooo much
that you start to get very weary. Your integrity doesn't give because it
is strong and solid so you tend to lash back.
Mark K. writes:
Yeah, I agree: Joni's fed up. Where the medical bit comes in is with the
mind/body connection. A person who keeps being fed up for a few decades
often finds that their health is shot.
Mark K. wrote:
There's a certain brittleness about her expressions of negativity that
remind me of people with physical problems like hormonal imbalances that
affect their mood.
Heather writes:
My mother is a hypochondriac. Raised us to always take medicine for this
and that. Now I don't even take aspirin for a headache! Somehow, as a
chemist, I don't think medicine is always the answer.
Mark K. writes:
Im not talking about hypochondria, and I fully agree that taking medicine
is not always the answer. What caused me to think in a medical way about
Joni is that her cantankerousness seems to have developed in the last ten
years or so. Yes, theres FTR. But that supports my point. Joni seems so
in control in that song, like she sees the game, she sees how she's hooked
into it, and is able to reflect upon it, quite gorgeously.
Disillusionment has been one of her great themes since Both Sides Now and
before (i.e. the fishbowl poem). What's new is this loose trigger kind
of irritability, seeming (to me) almost like a physiological response
rather than a natural expression of her personality. I mean, when Dylan
gives interviews and says incoherent things, he's just being Bob Dylan.
He's always said incoherent things. If Joni started giving interviews
like that, I'd worry she had Parkinsons!
Mark K. wrote:
>This isn't something people usually have to deal with in their younger
>years, but when you are in your 50s it is not at all unusual. When
>people's systems are brought back into balance it's incredible how much
>better they feel.
Heather writes:
I'm ten years younger than Joni and I can understand her outlook. There
are other ways for people to "balance" themselves. Massages, yoga,
aromatherapy, etc.
Mark K. writes:
Again, I agree. And I would add acupuncture and various modalities of
energy healing, plus lots of other stuff. I'm almost sure that Joni has
worked with at least one energy healer: someone I know who is also a
minister and a Native American medicine woman.
Heather wrote:
Well, sometimes it is better to let off steam :-) Better for your system
to get it out than keep it all bottled in. Joni is doing this through her
music.
Mark K. writes:
SOMETIMES is an important word here. Ive been on both sides of this
issue. My ex worked with Elisabeth Kubler Ross putting on workshops all
over the world which facilitated people letting off steam. Elisabeth
calls it externatization. But what she found is that externalization is
not always the answer. For some people its a catharsis; for others, its
just like replaying a negative emotional/physiological pattern,
reinforcing it each time. Im not so sure Jonis negativity is working for
her.
Heather wrote:
Yes. We can find jerks everywhere but traditionally women have gotten
stepped on many a time. I don't see Joni as vulnerable. I think she is
just plain fed up. I don't like seeing her in her cantankerous state but
Joni is Joni. I accept her for the way she is. Healthwise, I would worry
more about her repercussions from polio and her smoking habit.
Mark K. writes:
I agree about the inequities you mention, and also, women in the biz have
to face such terrible ageism. The older Joni gets the more she has to
deal with idiots in the industry who think she's a dinosaur. The biz is
brutal to everyone. I remember a Paul Simon interview, about a year
before Graceland. It was in a little newsletter for songwriters. He said
that his company was treating him like a hasbeen, and I think he even
said that he could no longer count on having a record deal.
I too accept Joni for who and what she is. My concern is that in her
efforts to fight the industry and in her refusual to let it reduce her
to something less than what she is, she might be doing herself in
through her repeated stress response. The stress reponse gives you the
energy to fight off the alligators when they attack. But if they've
been attacking for 25 years, they might finally destroy you, not by
gnashing your flesh, but by ruining your adrenals! She has to keep her
armor strong to continue to withstand the idiocy . . . If she lets the
system wear HER system down, then she will be defenseless against it. I
do see her as vulnerable, because in order to be a great artist you have
to be vulnerable. And yeah, I'm concerned about the smoking, which speeds
up the exhaustion process in addition to everything else it does, and I'm
concerned, or course, about the post-polio syndrome. Thanks for your
thoughts, Heather. And in response to "Honey McBabe," I care because I
care. More later.
Mark in Chapel Hill
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:41:34 EST
From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
Subject: Re: A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans
In a message dated 12/14/98 5:54:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
p.tyrer@lancaster.ac.uk writes:
<< 3. Isn't the LP everyone's calling 'Song to
a Seagull' *in fact* called 'Joni Mitchell'? (I've always wondered...). >>
It was a mistake that it was originally called Joni Mitchell and not Song To A
Seagull. That mistake has been corrected.
Paul I
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:13:08 -0500
From: Anne Madden
Subject: Re: More Girly Guile (with some TTT now thrown in at a tangent)
Jason Maloney wrote -
Michael Paz wrote:
<< how "influenced" Jewel's style has been by our SIQUOMB. I just heard the
<< first Jewel CD in a store a year or two ago, and thought - "hey! I like
<< the sound of that..." - and bought Pieces Of You then and there.>>
I remember reading an article where Jewel stated when she was making Pieces
of You she had no idea who Joni was!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:44:52 +0000
From: catman
Subject: Re: Joni Slagging: Medical Reason???
>
>
> Mark K. writes:
>
> SOMETIMES is an important word here. Ive been on both sides of this
> issue. My ex worked with Elisabeth Kubler Ross putting on workshops all
> over the world which facilitated people letting off steam. Elisabeth
> calls it externatization. But what she found is that externalization is
> not always the answer. For some people its a catharsis; for others, its
> just like replaying a negative emotional/physiological pattern,
> reinforcing it each time.
I have found that to be the case-there is only so much re-living and
externalising one can do-then one just has to let it go or it kills you. Now,
as much as I am able, when the old shit rears it's ugly head, I say 'thankyou,
but i know that and felt that, I don't want to go there again. Trust me, you
have been heard' and it works. fb's and pa's have stopped with this method.
Positve self talk really helps.Kubler Ross is/was a brilliant woman.(I think
she has passed over now)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:01:16 GMT
From: "Phil Klein"
Subject: joni on the radio in America
Susan Chaloner wrote:
>All I really want for christmas is mega-airplay for TTT and that
>cutie Klein ;~)
OK, I can be free for a couple of hours if I can get away from the
wife, kids and in-laws.....
Phil
P G Klein
IRC Polymer Science and Technology
University of Leeds
Leeds
LS2 9JT
Tel 0113 2333814
Fax 0113 2333846
http://www.irc.leeds.ac.uk/~phy6pgk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:18:54 -0700
From: Steve Dulson
Subject: Cry, Cry, Cry (NJC)
I went to the Cry, Cry, Cry show at The Coach House in San Juan
Capistrano Saturday night (and I'm interested in hearing Mariana's
comments from the Troubadour, Sunday).
Wow. I like the CD a lot, but live, these three (Dar Williams, Lucy
Kaplansky and Richard Shindell) are fantastic. Three singer/song-
writers with thriving solo careers joining forces to sing songs
by other singer/songwriters may seem like an odd concept, but it
works spectacularly. Not a dud song all evening. And their voices...
they sing with that magical sibling-like blend that defies description.
If I call them "Peter, Paul and Mary for the new millenium", I mean
it as a major compliment. Three excellent singers bringing great
material to a wider audience.
Cry, Cry, Cry is touring for the next few months. If your a fan of
great songwriting, and/or fabulous vocal harmonizing go see them.
##############################################################
Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com
"The Tinker's Own"
http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html
"Southern California Dulcimer Heritage"
http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/
"The Living Tradition Concert Series"
(Website soon!)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:37:10 GMT
From: "Phil Klein"
Subject: Fave Albums (NRJC)
I've just read the last 6 digests, and thought I'd bite at this one
before the thread petered out, so here goes, off the top of my head:
0. Hejira. Simply head and shoulders above everything else. The
rest, in no particular order, and leaving out any more Joni:
1. Steely Dan - Gaucho
2. FZ and the Mothers - Uncle Meat (or Cruising with Reuben & The
Jets, or Joe's Garage... (Guess you only get one chance in life to
play a song that goes like this.))
3. Ella Fitzgerald - Cole Porter Songbook. Best female singer ever.
Don't even try to argue about it, unless you mention JM.
4. Genesis - Selling England by the Pound.
5. Smiths - have to have something by them, how about World Won't
Listen, or, if not a compilation, Meat is Murder.
And now I've remembered I've left out Rolling Stones Exile on Main
Street, Pink Floyd DSOTM, James Taylor Mud Slide Slim, Santana
Abraxas, Stevie Wonder Innervisions... this is jolly difficult, isn't
it? Who decided we only had 5 choices, anyway?... Michael Jackson
Thriller, and loads of other stuff.
Phil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:41:49 -0500
From: "John M. Lind"
Subject: that Joni trouble
Dawn:
>>After 4 years in a relationship with someone who refused
>>to give Joni a chance, I am on my own and I must say,
>>I have been affirming my independence by reveling in her music.
Lori:
>Dawn, you are not alone in finding that immense love for Joni and
>her music can sometimes be a relationship-breaker ... I, too, recently
>ended a significant relationship...
"Joni Mitchell broke up my relationship!!" on the next Rikki Lake! ;^)
John~
NP "Rimshot" Erykah Badu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:37:50 EST
From: RickieLee1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: bye bye
In a message dated 12/14/98 6:17:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes:
<< I forget who was talking about "Jersey Girl" which Springsteen
covered and was included in his live box set. While his version is
good, I wanted to make sure that Tom Waits, the song's writer, got the
credit he so richly deserves - >>
hey bob...are you sure about that? i am fairly certain bruce wrote jersey
girl...am i wrong?
peace, ric
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:51:05 -0800
From: Susan Chaloner
Subject: Re: (NJC) Klein (the big one) gets away
Phil Klein wrote:
> OK, I can be free for a couple of hours if I can get away from the
> wife, kids and in-laws.....
Great! I hope you're loaded 'cause unless your name is Larry le grande
boom-boom Klein and/or you have a bent fireman, I'm charging a
Chartreuse Versace per minute ;~D
Susan L.A.
Honey McBabe-"...I was free in Paris..."-JoniM with world reduction
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:54:24 -0800
From: Mary Grace Valentinsson
Subject: credit where credit is due....(NJC)
Bob correctly points out that "Jersey Girl" is a Tom Waitts tune.
MG
(you can take the girl out of Jersey, but you can't take Jersey out of the
girl......)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:09:16 -0500
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re[4]: Jersey Girl
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: bye bye
Author: RickieLee1@aol.com at fdinet
Date: 12/14/98 12:37 PM
In a message dated 12/14/98 6:17:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes:
<< I forget who was talking about "Jersey Girl" which Springsteen
covered and was included in his live box set. While his version is
good, I wanted to make sure that Tom Waits, the song's writer, got the
credit he so richly deserves - >>
hey bob...are you sure about that? i am fairly certain bruce wrote jersey
girl...am i wrong?
peace, ric
Ric,
I'm bettin' a paycheck on it - I guarantee it! Trust me...
Holly Cole also does a nice version on her all Tom Waits cover album.
Bruce does such a good job with the tune, it's his kind of song, + the
title "Jersey Girl", but it's Tom's song. He probably wrote it knowing
that Bruce would sing it and he could reap the royalty $$ :~)
P.S. Interesting related trivia - The OTHER Rickielee, Ms. Jones, hung
with Waits for awhile and is pictured with him (her back to the
camera) on the cover of his classic "Blue Valentine".
Peace back atcha, Bob
NP: Seal "Bring it On"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:19:14 -0500
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re: that Joni trouble
Dawn:
>>After 4 years in a relationship with someone who refused
>>to give Joni a chance, I am on my own and I must say,
>>I have been affirming my independence by reveling in her music.
Lori:
>Dawn, you are not alone in finding that immense love for Joni and
>her music can sometimes be a relationship-breaker ... I, too, recently
>ended a significant relationship...
Then John wrote:
"Joni Mitchell broke up my relationship!!" on the next Rikki Lake! ;^)
Or worse, put it on Jerry Springer, bring out all the old & new lovers
and let 'em duke it out. (Although I don't think there's a lot of
intersection between folks that listen to Joni & folks who would
consent to appear on Springer...);~D
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:12:31 EST
From: Barrylauri@aol.com
Subject: Re: Songs That Don't Wear Out (NJC)
In a message dated 12/13/98 10:50:57 AM EST, LRFye@aol.com writes:
> My thoughts on songs that don't wear out: anything of Joni's, really ...
and
> just about all Beatles tunes ...
I'll agree with you there, but let's not forget early Crosby Stills Nash &
Young and early Led Zepplen.
Laurie
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:27:26 -0400
From: Jerry Notaro
Subject: Re: Songs That Don't Wear Out (NJC)
Barrylauri@aol.com wrote:
> > My thoughts on songs that don't wear out: anything of Joni's, really ...
Except, of course, Dog Eat Dog :^)
Jerry
np: Ella Fitzgerald's Christmas
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:30:37 -0700
From: Bounced Message
Subject: Top 5 from a once and future JMDLer
From: Michael Yarbrough
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:28:56 -0500
I've been taking a break from the JMDL for a little over a month now, but
I do take a peek at the online archives every once and a while and saw
a poll I just couldn't pass up.
These five aren't necessarily my *favorite* albums (though they rank
high on that list as well), but what I consider to be the best five of the
albums I know well enough to judge:
1) Beatles, _Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band_
2) Marvin Gaye, _What's Going On?_
3) Public Enemy, _It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back_
4) Radiohead, _OK Computer_
5) Joni Mitchell, _Hissing of Summer Lawns_
Bubbling under, in no particular order:
Patti Smith, _Horses_
R.E.M., _Automatic for the People_
Stevie Wonder, _Innervisions_
Madonna, _Erotica_
Pet Shop Boys, _Very_
k.d. lang, _Ingenue_
Arrested Development, _3 Years, 5 Months and 2 Days in the Life of..._
Who, _Who's Next_
Portishead, _Dummy_
Bjork, _Homogenic_
Big Star, _Radio City_
Liz Phair, _Exile in Guyville_
Prince, _Purple Rain_
The Artist, _The Gold Experience_
Madonna, _Like a Prayer_
R.E.M., _Murmur_
Belle and Sebastian, _If You're Feeling Sinister_
Joni Mitchell, _Blue_
Dusty Springfield, _Dusty in Memphis_
Aretha Franklin, _Lady Soul_
Nirvana, _Nevermind_
And you know there may be more.
Someone tried to start a poll about disappointing albums--top my list
with Neil Young, _Harvest_. I was literally appalled the first time I
heard it. I'm really digging _Sleeps with Angels_ though...
Have fun in Joniland...
- --Michael
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:50:22 -0800
From: Don Sloan
Subject: Top 5 and then some...
Before this thread is dead, I guess I better get my list in.... though
as you all know, it's really impossible to pick only five.....
especially if you have been on the planet as long as some of us here
have :->>
In no particular order......
1. STAS - Joni (although this could have been C&S, Hejira or Clouds,
having been there when this was first released, it will always hold a
special place in my heart.)
2. Our Children's Children - Moody Blues (maybe you had to be there to
really appreciate these guys, but if you were on the spiritual or
chemical path back then, you had to love 'em!)
3. Deja Vu - CSNY (the only reason this *won out* over the first LP is
due to the presence of Neil who I love on his own as well as with the
other guys here.)
4. Who Knows Where The Time Goes - Judy Collins (2 or 3 of the cuts
still bring tears to my eyes.... some beautiful stuff here.)
5. Abbey Road - The Beatles (I think side two of this LP is probably the
best written/produced and performed single side ever put on disk.)
If I could add a couple more, there would be:
- - The Electric Flag - An American Music Band (this self-titled LP has
some of the best soul/blues work on it you can find IMO. The guitar work
of the late Michael Bloomfield is very very hard to beat and worth
buying the CD for.)
- - Moondance - Van
- - Aja - Steely Dan
- - Getz/Gilberto #2 - Live at Carnegie Hall
- - Live at the Regal - B.B. King
- - My Time After A While - Buddy Guy
- - Rickie Lee Jones
- - Bookends - Simon and Garfunkel
As for some best songs (leaning here to stuff not on fav LPs):
Since I Don't Have You - Skyliners
A Day in the Life - The Beatles
Because - Dave Clark Five
Caroline No - The Beach Boys
What's So Good About Goodbye - Smokey Robinson
First Love - Poco
Crazy - Patsy Cline
Crying - Roy Orbison
Love Song to a Stranger - Joan Baez
I knew I couldn't do no damn Top 5 List and leave it at that!!!
Don
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:51:48 EST
From: LRFye@aol.com
Subject: Re: (NJC) A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans
Paul T. wrote:
> 2. Re comments recently about gay
> men being put on earth by God to model tolerance to heterosexuals... er,
no.
> Heterosexuals will have to sort out their own shit, I'm afraid. We're too
> busy rushing aroung trying to avoid being verbally abused, kicked to death
> etc etc to be models for anyone else.
and:
> I know what you're saying about 'what happens in other people's bedrooms is
> none of our business'. But if that were true, Matt Sheppard wouldn't be
> dead right now. Heterosexuals and Lesbians/Gay men aren't the same, cos the
> latter (in which I include myself) suffer discrimination and prejudice every
day -
> even if for the more fortunate of us, this is experienced in very minor and
> seemingly insignificant ways. We're not equal, and no amount of saying so
> is gonna make us equal. Yet!
I was the person who first suggested that gays are on this earth to Teach
Tolerance by example, and as a lesbian, I stand by my statement. But, Paul, I
do agree with your statements, too. I often think that gay men have a more
difficult time of it and experience a whole lot more discrimination and
bashing -- but lesbians receive "their share," too. Part of it has to do
with how well we appear to assimilate with straight society, i.e., can you
pass for straight? I do (based on how often people ask about my presumed
husband and children), but that wasn't always the case and I'm not suggesting
that gay men and lesbians try to pass for anything but themselves.
Because it's not always assumed that I'm gay, I often let people get to know,
and hopefully to like, me ... and then I drop the "bombshell" upon them. 99%
of the time they react favorably and are left with the knowledge that they now
know a real live homosexual person who is just as normal as anyone else they
know. It works for me, and it promotes tolerance and understanding, one
previously prejudiced heterosexual at a time.
This is not to say that I am just going to stand there and let someone beat
the crap out of me if they're trying to ... just that I'm not going to throw
the first punch.
I don't know when gay people will achieve legal equality with straight people,
but I hoping and even occasionally praying that I live long enough to
experience it.
Lori
San Antonio
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:01:21 -0500
From: Tortorici@exchange.conference-board.org
Subject: jewel and judy collins--not joni
To the person who mentioned that Jewel might be playing with Joni next
year. I think what your daughter is referring to is Madison Square
Garden in NY's "Women In Music" concert, scheduled for January 1999.
Jewel and Judy Collins will be the headliners. As this list well knows,
many people confuse Judy and Joni because of "Both Sides Now" and
"Chelsea Morning."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:16:38 PST
From: "s. kelly"
Subject: My Top 5 (...9 disguised as 5...)
My Top 5:
1. "Court and Spark" - Joni
2. *tie*: "Blue" - Joni / "The Hissing of Summer Lawns" - Joni
3. *tie*: "For the Roses" - Joni / "Songs in the Key of Life" - Stevie
Wonder
4. *tie*: "Ami Ou Ennemi" - Maurane / "Whats Going On" - Marvin Gaye
5. *tie*: "Only What I Feel" - Patty Loveless / "Sgt. Pepper" -the
Beatles
sandra
eight_thirteen@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:13:33 EST
From: LRFye@aol.com
Subject: Re: Songs That Don't Wear Out (JC again)
It was me, and not Barrylauri Laurie, who wrote:
> My thoughts on songs that don't wear out: anything of Joni's, really ...
Jerry replied:
> Except, of course, Dog Eat Dog :^)
Sorry, Jerry, but I have to disagree ... I played the entirety of DED twice in
a row
this morning, and I anticipate that I'll play it half a dozen more times
tonight! I'm just in that mood, and I really do love that album! Even
"Ethiopia"...
Lori
San Antonio
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:32:04 -0800
From: "Kakki"
Subject: Re: Top 5 from a once and future JMDLer
Michael wrote:
>Someone tried to start a poll about disappointing albums--top my list
>with Neil Young, _Harvest_. I was literally appalled the first time I
>heard it
No offense to Neil fans but this is a perfect disappointment choice! I was
"there" when it came out and everyone I knew thought it was the greatest
album they ever heard. I wasn't quite appalled but sure did fret a lot to
myself wondering why I could not see what everyone else saw in it. It was
played constantly on the radio and every dorm room for at least 18 months in
college until I wanted to scream. I've had a hard time listening to Neil
ever since. Speaking of overplayed songs, I nearly lost my great love for
Led Zep after having to hear "Stairway to Heaven" played (it seemed like)
50,000 times during my college years. Arrrrr.
Kakki
NP: Yvette in English
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:04:58 -0500
From: "Marsha"
Subject: Re: joni on the radio in America
Susan Chaloner wrote:
>All I really want for christmas is mega-airplay for TTT and that
>cutie Klein ;~)
Then Phil volunteered:
>OK, I can be free for a couple of hours if I can get away from the
>wife, kids and in-laws.....
>P G Klein
OK, SMcBabe. You get Phil...I get Larry! ;-D
Marsha, thinking Joni would be a tough act to follow...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:06:35 EST
From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Jersey Girl
In a message dated 12/14/98 1:22:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes:
<<
<< I forget who was talking about "Jersey Girl" which Springsteen
covered and was included in his live box set. While his version is
good, I wanted to make sure that Tom Waits, the song's writer, got the
credit he so richly deserves - >>
hey bob...are you sure about that? i am fairly certain bruce wrote jersey
girl...am i wrong?
peace, ric
Ric,
I'm bettin' a paycheck on it - I guarantee it! Trust me...
>>
Ric,
Trust him. It was Waits.
Paul I
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 98 21:23:43 GMT
From: kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant)
Subject: Celebration at Big Sur Reminder (HBO/SIG)
Hi,
For those of you *lucky* enough to get that *rare* channel HBO SIG
from your cable/satellite company, here's the schedule for Celebration at Big
Sur for the remainder of Dec.
The program description is copied from HBO's website (what's up with Joni
getting last billing???)
If anyone who gets this channel is able to make a copy of this for me I'd
really appreciate it! (email me privately with your address and I'll put a
blank and postage in the mail today, or we can trade for audio.)
Thanks,
-Kenny
====================================================================
Revisit the Woodstock era in this vintage rock-n-roll show shot in
September of 1969 during the three-day festival at Big Sur, California.
The crowd-wowing acts include Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, Joan
Baez, John Sebastian and Joni Mitchell.
Schedule:
HBO/SIG East HBO/SIG West
- ------------ -------------
Mon 12/14 10:00P Mon 12/14 1:00A
Fri 12/18 7:45A Fri 12/18 10:45A
Mon 12/21 12:30P Mon 12/21 3:30P
=======================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:32:38 -0800
From: Susan Chaloner
Subject: Re: (?JC) Taking up the Kleins in Joni's slack
Marsha wrote:
> OK, SMcBabe. You get Phil...I get Larry! ;-D
Ha! :~D No way baber! I can't go for this exclusive stuff especially
when I'm being dealt out :~D Besides I'm stuck on that Larry dude: at
least for five minutes ;~) Never one to sneeze at variety I say we
switch every other orgasm };~D
> Marsha, thinking Joni would be a tough act to follow...
Tough maybe but not imp-possible...I have just graduated 'cum whatever'
with an honourable arrogant bitch ticket: follow me, I'm right behind
you ;~D The way I look at baber: between the two of us we should be able
to pull something off ;~)
Susan L.A.
Honey McBabe-"...purring by your side..."-JoniM
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:56:21 EST
From: RickieLee1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Jersey Girl
well would you look at that! got my tom waits anthology in my hand and sure
enough, jersey girl! second time this year i was wrong!
i was thinking about "because the night belongs to lovers", for some weird
reason...
anyway, i stand corrected and i thank you.
love, ric (going back to being right now...)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:54:04 +0000
From: michael paz
Subject: Washington D.C. ANYONE?
Hello All-
I am in the lovely but tense capitol of our nation. I was wondering if
there are any listers that live in the area. I have tonight free and am
getting ready to grab a bite at Sushi Kappo. I have my cell phone with
me (504-236-0779). I will be attending a conference all day tomorrow on
the Reconstruction of Central America. I will have some more free time
tomorrow evening as well. Hope to hear from JMDLers out there.
Best,
Michael
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:24:36 -0500
From: "Dave Doherty"
Subject: top 5 albums
Hi all, this is such a hard task, but here goes.
1. Born to Run - Bruce
2. Hejira - Joni
3. Led Zep 4
4. East Side Story - Squeeze
5. Boy - U2.
'' I am as constant as an Northern Star''
David.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:55:11 -0500
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Subject: Re[2]: Joni Slagging: Medical Reason???
Mark,
You make a lot of interesting points, the health/mind connection is
very critical indeed and one that we're just getting our arms around
in this country.
My add to this discussion would be that she appears cantankerous only
because that's her response to so much of the MEDIA, the "starmaker
machinery". When I met her this year after the Atlanta show, she was
sweet, happy, gracious & glowing. I think the difference is that she
was talking with genuine fans & not just another someone doing their
job.
Bob M. in SC
NP: Joni live @ The Gorge, "Slouching"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:27:57 -0600
From: Scott and Jody
Subject: Re: Jersey Girl(NJC)
Just a side note:
In an interview, Tom said, he never thought he would catch himself
saying'sha la la' in a song. It was an experiment. It had a Drifters
feel about it. He tried to do it straight on....A guy walking down the
street to see his girl.
jody
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:31:51 EST
From: RickieLee1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Jersey Girl(NJC)
its a great song, no doubt about it. and that remarkable voice!! bless tom
waits.
peace and good will, love, ric
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:33:14 EST
From: Marilune@aol.com
Subject: Cry Cry Cry (NJC)
now for one of those nifty titles....
AY YI YIPPIE YIPPIE YI YAY
....i mean CRY CRY CRY
at the Troubadour, December 13th, 1998
being more of a rock fan, than a folk/country fan, usually i wouldn't have
gone to this show at all. but i did like dar williams and had missed the
chance to see her last October 'cos of an unfortunate trip to Chicago (yeah
right). so i bought some tickets, invited a friend, put on my best Dixie Chick
face and took my place in line.
the Trou is one of my favorite clubs just 'cos it's so small and cozy and
fun. i know the ropes totally now, so i felt perfectly comfortable taking
posters off the walls. my friend looked at me sort of horrified like, "are we
allowed to do this?" the proprieters like you to do it though...what are they
gonna do with the posters after the show's over? so instead of pay four
dollars at the merchendise spot in the bar, i just took the for free. my
favorites are the ones with the dates.
the opening act were the Neilds (sp?). two sisters with tremendous voices. i
enjoyed them. i enjoyed their songs and their voices. although i don't know if
it could be captured of record though. i was really out to see Dar. the Neilds
(Narissa and Katrina) played a nice set, singing quirky songs that they wrote.
they even sang one about Georgia O'Keefe which went: "I wanna be a woman like
you, I wanna be a woman like me."
Cry Cry Cry consists of Dar Williams (who was wearing a lovely chinese style
purple dress), Lucy Kaplansky (a vivacious woman with hair to match), and
Richard Shindell (a mad hatter type). they played what they believed were
exemplary folk song of "our" era as oppose to old stuff. they were great
harmonizers, playing guitar and singing good fun folky songs and even songs
that weren't folky like R.E.M's "Fall On Me". yay! they each played one of
their own songs. Dar played "February", from her second album "Mortal City".
they came back for two encores. i was all around snapping pictures of Dar and
Lucy and Richard. it was fun. they played "The Christians and the Pagans", a
fun Dar song in which she got us to sing the back up (the christians...the
pagans...together...owhoa...halle...leluia...owhoa).
finally at the end, i told my friend to just stick around and they'd come
out as they always do. and of course they did. this time they sat with
sharpies to sign things. so they all signed my posters and Dar signed my
"Honesty Room" album. she is TINY, really, really short, shorter than me in
heels. Dar was acting a little aloof but i don't know if that was just 'cos
she was tired or something else. Lucy and Richard were great though. really
nice.
apparently this is the last leg of this part of the tour. glad i could go. it
took a while for me to stop judging it as a "i hate country music yeeewww"
person and just judging it on whether i liked it or not. it wasn't the best
concert ever (that crown belongs to elliott smith), but i had a good time and
was glad to go.
next up: sarah, los lobos, jackson browne, bonnie raitt, and keb mob at the
Santa Monica Civic this friday...
- -mariana
NP: breeders, -pod-
------------------------------
End of JMDL Digest V3 #512
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