From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #512 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, December 15 1998 Volume 03 : Number 512 JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to info-jonifest1999@jmdl.com for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: tape tree*3*??, jazz recs-help!(SJC) [Joseph Palis ] A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans ["Tyrer, Paul" ] Re: Joni Slagging: Medical Reason??? ["Mark T. Klempner" ] Fave Albums (NRJC) ["Phil Klein" ] that Joni trouble ["John M. Lind" ] Re: Re[2]: bye bye [RickieLee1@aol.com] Re: (NJC) Klein (the big one) gets away [Susan Chaloner ] Top 5 and then some... [Don Sloan ] Re: (NJC) A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans [LRFye@aol.com] jewel and judy collins--not joni [Tortorici@exchange.conference-board.org] My Top 5 (...9 disguised as 5...) ["s. kelly" ] Re: joni on the radio in America ["Marsha" ] Re: Re[4]: Jersey Girl [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Celebration at Big Sur Reminder (HBO/SIG) [kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant)] Re: (?JC) Taking up the Kleins in Joni's slack [Susan Chaloner ] top 5 albums ["Dave Doherty" ] Re[2]: Joni Slagging: Medical Reason??? [Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com] Re: Jersey Girl(NJC) [Scott and Jody ] Re: Jersey Girl(NJC) [RickieLee1@aol.com] Cry Cry Cry (NJC) [Marilune@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:41:02 +0800 (CST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: tape tree*3*??, jazz recs-help!(SJC) On Sat, 12 Dec 1998, Mary Becker wrote: > One of the things I'm really enjoying on this list is the huge variety of > musical tastes. The top 5 picks have been fun and revealing (I want to > change some of mine already--I think!). Anyway, I picked up H. Hancock"s > _Gershwin's World_ a couple weeks ago, and it has really grown on me. Then > I decided I needed to check out Miles Davis _Kind of Blue_ after it showed > up on so many top 5 lists. Like that too. And I am ready to venture further > into jazz, but don't know where to begin! Any suggestions?? I don't even > know what kind of jazz I like! > Hi Mary! My girlfriend was never tolerant about my (morbid) fascination with jazz. Believe me, I spent nights thinking what jazz record to give her that will convert her to the genre that I like so much. The solution? Chet Baker. Chet Baker is a trumpeter long associated with the West Coast type of jazz. His type of trumpet playing is as hard to describe as it is hard to find the English equivalent of the word "gestalt", but my girlfriend learned to love jazz through Chet Baker and I think that you will like it too despite the fact that you are more receptive to jazz. Go for Baker's "My Funny Valentine" disc that had him shirtless on the cover with a girl. Trust me, you will like him and the genre from now on... or if you're not moved at first... it is that type of disc that grows on you... Incidentally if you like jazz vocal, go for the following contemporary s(w)ingers : Dee Dee Bridgewater - either DEAR ELLA or LOVE AND PEACE (wink at Winfried) Nnenna Freelon - particularly HERITAGE, NNENNA FREELON and LISTEN. Vanessa Rubin - PASTICHE or SOUL EYES or SINGS Dianne Reeves - anything she recorded. I REMEMBER to me is her best. Diana Krall - esp. ALL FOR YOU or you can always rely on the legendary singers: Ella Fitzgerald - THE INTIMATE ELLA, ELLA IN BERLIN, CLAP HANDS HERE COMES CHARLIE Sarah Vaughan - GERSHWIN LIVE, CRAZY AND MIXED UP Billie Holiday - all her records are magic Betty Carter - THE AUDIENCE WITH B.T. Abbey Lincoln - YOU GOTTA PAY THE BAND Shirley Horn - anything ... but HERE'S TO LIFE should be in anyone's collection ... and there are many more who are just as good... Patricia Barber, Susannah McCorkle, Diane Schuur... but the abovementioned should be explored first. More power! Joseph ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:15:54 +0100 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: bye bye Nicholas writes: > Am I alone in thinking a) most of the information on this discussion > group is boring and b) there is too much NJC content? > > After just a week on the list I am uns.ubscribing so that I can free up > my server for things of interest and inteligence. Maybe if Ms Mitchell > was actually a contributer to this group if would actually be worth > tuning in to. > Hmmm, we'll never know, of course, but my guess would be she'd do exactly the same as most of us here do: talk openly and freely about anything which occupies our hearts and minds. Even with much NJC -- this is a very Joni-ish list IMO. Take a look at her songs and at what they are about. Oh, I talk too loose, Again I talk too open and free I pay a high price for my open talking Like you do for your silent mystery. We could talk about Martha We could talk about landscapes I'm not above gossip But I'll sit on a secret where honor is at stake! Or we could talk about power... About Jesus and Hitler and Howard Hughes... (JM-- Talk To Me) And that's exactly what we are doing here. Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:49:18 -0000 From: "Tyrer, Paul" Subject: A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans Hmm, there's been a coupl'a things on the page that have been bothering me recently. 1. Re Girly Guile/Joni's supposed recently developing 'illness'. She's *always* been accused of being 'as arrogant as Mussolini' (D.Crosby). 'Nice' personalities don't make great art! 2. Re comments recently about gay men being put on earth by God to model tolerance to heterosexuals... er, no. Heterosexuals will have to sort out their own shit, I'm afraid. We're too busy rushing aroung trying to avoid being verbally abused, kicked to death etc etc to be models for anyone else. 3. Isn't the LP everyone's calling 'Song to a Seagull' *in fact* called 'Joni Mitchell'? (I've always wondered...). 4. Re Joni not knowing Turbulent Indigo - seems to me that Polio, recurrent polio, throat lesions, losing your child, the end of your 10+ yr marriage is all fairly turbulent stuff. 'My loves are dead or dying or they won't come near' etc etc. But I always thought that the paintings on the TI cd were all tongue in cheek anyway - an ironic dig at herself (despite her Mussolini tendencies) - "poor me"! That's why she can look at glam and smiley in her studio on the inside sleeve. Love and festive hugs from PaulXX ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:10:07 -0500 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans - ---------- > From: Tyrer, Paul > To: 'joni@smoe.org' > Subject: A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans > Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 5:49 AM > > Hmm, there's been a coupl'a things on the page that have been bothering me > recently. (SNIP) 2. Re comments recently about gay > men being put on earth by God to model tolerance to heterosexuals... er, no. > Heterosexuals will have to sort out their own shit, I'm afraid. 3. Isn't the LP everyone's calling 'Song to > a Seagull' *in fact* called 'Joni Mitchell'? (I've always wondered...). 4. Re Joni not knowing Turbulent Indigo - seems to me that Polio, recurrent polio, > throat lesions, losing your child, the end of your 10+ yr marriage is all > fairly turbulent stuff. 'My loves are dead or dying or they won't come near' > etc etc. > > Love and festive hugs from > PaulXX Answers: #2. A friend of mine lost his partner to cancer & I saw the pain he went through in his loss. The same as when I lost my second daughter, the same as anyone who loses a spouse. I learned a powerful lesson there. Frankly, it's nobody else's business what we do in our own bedrooms. #3 It's called Song to a Seagull...look at the seagulls on the front cover, they spell it out. #4 We all have turbulent indigo in our lives; I could write a book! In my original gripe, I said I was going through a BoHo dance. Meaning as the lyrics go..."The virtue of your style inscribed on your CONTEMPT for mine...Books where artists in noble poverty Go like virgins to the grave." I'm a struggling artist, I am frustrated right now. Joni's art is only recognized because she's a famous recording artist. I resent that RIGHT NOW. "Don't you get sensitive on me, "Cause I know you're just too proud, You couldn't step outside the Boho dance now, Even if good fortune allowed". Those words are smacking me in the face! "my loves are dead or dying..." Job's Sad Song can be classified with Love from WTRF in that she put the Bible story to music. Joni is basically a fantasy in our lives (for those of us who haven't had the pleasure of meeting her). She's an easy target for worship, praise and attacks. We only know her by what we read, see on TV, and listen to from her music. We all belong to this list because she has captured us with her music. Her lyrics grab us by our hearts & minds and provoke us to dig deep within. I think that is the reason why she is not a superstar. It takes courage..."when you dig down deep you loose good sleep and it makes you heavy company". Honestly, I see the JMDL as a family. We vent with family members. I vented here because we are all Joni lovers and I knew some would agree and some would disagree. I was pleasantly surprised that I wasn't ostracized. I feel more comfortable with the group now. Kind of like a child testing my boundaries. Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:44:39 -0000 From: "Tyrer, Paul" Subject: RE: A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans Hi Marilyn Thanks for your venting reply! I agree with a lot of what you said. And I like your capital letters too! But I guess that no matter what JM would like people to say, it's her music people are turned on to. The art is an added plus, but probably not much more. I'd still be buying JM records if they had nice photos on the front. I guess that goes for most of you out there? By the way, if you've got any scans of your art you could send me as an attachment, I'd love to see it. I know what you're saying about 'what happens in other people's bedrooms is none of our business'. But if that were true, Matt Sheppard wouldn't be dead right now. Heterosexuals and Lesbians/Gay men aren't the same, cos the latter (in which I include myself) suffer discrimination and prejudice every day - even if for the more fortunate of us, this is experienced in very minor and seemingly insignificant ways. We're not equal, and no amount of saying so is gonna make us equal. Yet! PX > -----Original Message----- > From: M & C Urbanski [SMTP:artwear@ncweb.com] > Sent: 14 December 1998 13:10 > To: Tyrer, Paul; 'joni@smoe.org' > Subject: Re: A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans > > > > ---------- > > From: Tyrer, Paul > > To: 'joni@smoe.org' > > Subject: A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans > > Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 5:49 AM > > > > Hmm, there's been a coupl'a things on the page that have been bothering > me > > recently. > (SNIP) > 2. Re comments recently about gay > > men being put on earth by God to model tolerance to heterosexuals... er, > no. > > Heterosexuals will have to sort out their own shit, I'm afraid. > > 3. Isn't the LP everyone's calling 'Song to > > a Seagull' *in fact* called 'Joni Mitchell'? (I've always wondered...). > > 4. Re Joni not knowing Turbulent Indigo - seems to me that Polio, > recurrent polio, > > throat lesions, losing your child, the end of your 10+ yr marriage is all > > fairly turbulent stuff. 'My loves are dead or dying or they won't come > near' > > etc etc. > > > > Love and festive hugs from > > PaulXX > > Answers: > #2. A friend of mine lost his partner to cancer & I saw the pain he went > through in his loss. The same as when I lost my second daughter, the same > as anyone who loses a spouse. I learned a powerful lesson there. Frankly, > it's nobody else's business what we do in our own bedrooms. > > #3 It's called Song to a Seagull...look at the seagulls on the front cover, > they spell it out. > > #4 We all have turbulent indigo in our lives; I could write a book! In my > original gripe, I said I was going through a BoHo dance. Meaning as the > lyrics go..."The virtue of your style inscribed on your CONTEMPT for > mine...Books where artists in noble poverty Go like virgins to the grave." > I'm a struggling artist, I am frustrated right now. Joni's art is only > recognized because she's a famous recording artist. I resent that RIGHT > NOW. "Don't you get sensitive on me, "Cause I know you're just too proud, > You couldn't step outside the Boho dance now, Even if good fortune > allowed". Those words are smacking me in the face! "my loves are dead or > dying..." Job's Sad Song can be classified with Love from WTRF in that she > put the Bible story to music. > > Joni is basically a fantasy in our lives (for those of us who haven't had > the pleasure of meeting her). She's an easy target for worship, praise and > attacks. We only know her by what we read, see on TV, and listen to from > her music. We all belong to this list because she has captured us with her > music. Her lyrics grab us by our hearts & minds and provoke us to dig deep > within. I think that is the reason why she is not a superstar. It takes > courage..."when you dig down deep you loose good sleep and it makes you > heavy company". > > Honestly, I see the JMDL as a family. We vent with family members. I > vented here because we are all Joni lovers and I knew some would agree and > some would disagree. I was pleasantly surprised that I wasn't ostracized. > I feel more comfortable with the group now. Kind of like a child testing > my boundaries. > > Marilyn > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:07:14 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: bye bye So why do the people who protest about NJC or the quality of the messages never post themselves? Nicholas Bates? Excuse me? Did he even post once? I read everything and have no recollection of him!! So sorry we didn't live up to his "superior" expectations :~) Yeah, bye, bye Mr. Bates - don't let the door hitcha on the way out... Bob M. in SC NP: Screaming Trees "Dying Days" from Dust PS - Paul, trust me dude - the true title is "Song To A Seagull", but you wouldn't know it except for the evidence of 30 years ago... PPS - I forget who was talking about "Jersey Girl" which Springsteen covered and was included in his live box set. While his version is good, I wanted to make sure that Tom Waits, the song's writer, got the credit he so richly deserves - his studio version on "Hearttattack & Vine" is better, and I say that as a huge Boss fan. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: bye bye Author: "Winfried Hühn" at fdinet Date: 12/14/98 10:15 AM Nicholas writes: > Am I alone in thinking a) most of the information on this discussion > group is boring and b) there is too much NJC content? > > After just a week on the list I am uns.ubscribing so that I can free up > my server for things of interest and inteligence. Maybe if Ms Mitchell > was actually a contributer to this group if would actually be worth > tuning in to. > Hmmm, we'll never know, of course, but my guess would be she'd do exactly the same as most of us here do: talk openly and freely about anything which occupies our hearts and minds. Even with much NJC -- this is a very Joni-ish list IMO. Take a look at her songs and at what they are about. Oh, I talk too loose, Again I talk too open and free I pay a high price for my open talking Like you do for your silent mystery. We could talk about Martha We could talk about landscapes I'm not above gossip But I'll sit on a secret where honor is at stake! Or we could talk about power... About Jesus and Hitler and Howard Hughes... (JM-- Talk To Me) And that's exactly what we are doing here. Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:16:55 -0500 From: Roger Walker Subject: Holiday .wav File Greetings JMDL'ers! Just a quick reminder that there's a mail notification .wav file (opening piano, River) for the holidays if you'd like it. It's at: http://users.erinet.com/2820/tape-trade-list.htm (click on the holly image) If you need help installing the file... feel free to write me mailto:rwalker@erinet.com - -- rog Happy Holidaze!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:33:20 -0500 (EST) From: "Mark T. Klempner" Subject: Re: Joni Slagging: Medical Reason??? Heather wrote: I don't comment on too many things on the list but, this one I thing I will. Don't you think that Joni is just plain fed up? I am by no means comparing myself to Joni but I have a parallel. In my profession, I was naive at first. Worked hard at what I loved to do and as the years past by I notice how big business just badgers a persons integrity sooo much that you start to get very weary. Your integrity doesn't give because it is strong and solid so you tend to lash back. Mark K. writes: Yeah, I agree: Joni's fed up. Where the medical bit comes in is with the mind/body connection. A person who keeps being fed up for a few decades often finds that their health is shot. Mark K. wrote: There's a certain brittleness about her expressions of negativity that remind me of people with physical problems like hormonal imbalances that affect their mood. Heather writes: My mother is a hypochondriac. Raised us to always take medicine for this and that. Now I don't even take aspirin for a headache! Somehow, as a chemist, I don't think medicine is always the answer. Mark K. writes: Im not talking about hypochondria, and I fully agree that taking medicine is not always the answer. What caused me to think in a medical way about Joni is that her cantankerousness seems to have developed in the last ten years or so. Yes, theres FTR. But that supports my point. Joni seems so in control in that song, like she sees the game, she sees how she's hooked into it, and is able to reflect upon it, quite gorgeously. Disillusionment has been one of her great themes since Both Sides Now and before (i.e. the fishbowl poem). What's new is this loose trigger kind of irritability, seeming (to me) almost like a physiological response rather than a natural expression of her personality. I mean, when Dylan gives interviews and says incoherent things, he's just being Bob Dylan. He's always said incoherent things. If Joni started giving interviews like that, I'd worry she had Parkinsons! Mark K. wrote: >This isn't something people usually have to deal with in their younger >years, but when you are in your 50s it is not at all unusual. When >people's systems are brought back into balance it's incredible how much >better they feel. Heather writes: I'm ten years younger than Joni and I can understand her outlook. There are other ways for people to "balance" themselves. Massages, yoga, aromatherapy, etc. Mark K. writes: Again, I agree. And I would add acupuncture and various modalities of energy healing, plus lots of other stuff. I'm almost sure that Joni has worked with at least one energy healer: someone I know who is also a minister and a Native American medicine woman. Heather wrote: Well, sometimes it is better to let off steam :-) Better for your system to get it out than keep it all bottled in. Joni is doing this through her music. Mark K. writes: SOMETIMES is an important word here. Ive been on both sides of this issue. My ex worked with Elisabeth Kubler Ross putting on workshops all over the world which facilitated people letting off steam. Elisabeth calls it externatization. But what she found is that externalization is not always the answer. For some people its a catharsis; for others, its just like replaying a negative emotional/physiological pattern, reinforcing it each time. Im not so sure Jonis negativity is working for her. Heather wrote: Yes. We can find jerks everywhere but traditionally women have gotten stepped on many a time. I don't see Joni as vulnerable. I think she is just plain fed up. I don't like seeing her in her cantankerous state but Joni is Joni. I accept her for the way she is. Healthwise, I would worry more about her repercussions from polio and her smoking habit. Mark K. writes: I agree about the inequities you mention, and also, women in the biz have to face such terrible ageism. The older Joni gets the more she has to deal with idiots in the industry who think she's a dinosaur. The biz is brutal to everyone. I remember a Paul Simon interview, about a year before Graceland. It was in a little newsletter for songwriters. He said that his company was treating him like a hasbeen, and I think he even said that he could no longer count on having a record deal. I too accept Joni for who and what she is. My concern is that in her efforts to fight the industry and in her refusual to let it reduce her to something less than what she is, she might be doing herself in through her repeated stress response. The stress reponse gives you the energy to fight off the alligators when they attack. But if they've been attacking for 25 years, they might finally destroy you, not by gnashing your flesh, but by ruining your adrenals! She has to keep her armor strong to continue to withstand the idiocy . . . If she lets the system wear HER system down, then she will be defenseless against it. I do see her as vulnerable, because in order to be a great artist you have to be vulnerable. And yeah, I'm concerned about the smoking, which speeds up the exhaustion process in addition to everything else it does, and I'm concerned, or course, about the post-polio syndrome. Thanks for your thoughts, Heather. And in response to "Honey McBabe," I care because I care. More later. Mark in Chapel Hill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:41:34 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans In a message dated 12/14/98 5:54:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, p.tyrer@lancaster.ac.uk writes: << 3. Isn't the LP everyone's calling 'Song to a Seagull' *in fact* called 'Joni Mitchell'? (I've always wondered...). >> It was a mistake that it was originally called Joni Mitchell and not Song To A Seagull. That mistake has been corrected. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:13:08 -0500 From: Anne Madden Subject: Re: More Girly Guile (with some TTT now thrown in at a tangent) Jason Maloney wrote - Michael Paz wrote: << how "influenced" Jewel's style has been by our SIQUOMB. I just heard the << first Jewel CD in a store a year or two ago, and thought - "hey! I like << the sound of that..." - and bought Pieces Of You then and there.>> I remember reading an article where Jewel stated when she was making Pieces of You she had no idea who Joni was! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:44:52 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni Slagging: Medical Reason??? > > > Mark K. writes: > > SOMETIMES is an important word here. Ive been on both sides of this > issue. My ex worked with Elisabeth Kubler Ross putting on workshops all > over the world which facilitated people letting off steam. Elisabeth > calls it externatization. But what she found is that externalization is > not always the answer. For some people its a catharsis; for others, its > just like replaying a negative emotional/physiological pattern, > reinforcing it each time. I have found that to be the case-there is only so much re-living and externalising one can do-then one just has to let it go or it kills you. Now, as much as I am able, when the old shit rears it's ugly head, I say 'thankyou, but i know that and felt that, I don't want to go there again. Trust me, you have been heard' and it works. fb's and pa's have stopped with this method. Positve self talk really helps.Kubler Ross is/was a brilliant woman.(I think she has passed over now) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:01:16 GMT From: "Phil Klein" Subject: joni on the radio in America Susan Chaloner wrote: >All I really want for christmas is mega-airplay for TTT and that >cutie Klein ;~) OK, I can be free for a couple of hours if I can get away from the wife, kids and in-laws..... Phil P G Klein IRC Polymer Science and Technology University of Leeds Leeds LS2 9JT Tel 0113 2333814 Fax 0113 2333846 http://www.irc.leeds.ac.uk/~phy6pgk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:18:54 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Cry, Cry, Cry (NJC) I went to the Cry, Cry, Cry show at The Coach House in San Juan Capistrano Saturday night (and I'm interested in hearing Mariana's comments from the Troubadour, Sunday). Wow. I like the CD a lot, but live, these three (Dar Williams, Lucy Kaplansky and Richard Shindell) are fantastic. Three singer/song- writers with thriving solo careers joining forces to sing songs by other singer/songwriters may seem like an odd concept, but it works spectacularly. Not a dud song all evening. And their voices... they sing with that magical sibling-like blend that defies description. If I call them "Peter, Paul and Mary for the new millenium", I mean it as a major compliment. Three excellent singers bringing great material to a wider audience. Cry, Cry, Cry is touring for the next few months. If your a fan of great songwriting, and/or fabulous vocal harmonizing go see them. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" (Website soon!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:37:10 GMT From: "Phil Klein" Subject: Fave Albums (NRJC) I've just read the last 6 digests, and thought I'd bite at this one before the thread petered out, so here goes, off the top of my head: 0. Hejira. Simply head and shoulders above everything else. The rest, in no particular order, and leaving out any more Joni: 1. Steely Dan - Gaucho 2. FZ and the Mothers - Uncle Meat (or Cruising with Reuben & The Jets, or Joe's Garage... (Guess you only get one chance in life to play a song that goes like this.)) 3. Ella Fitzgerald - Cole Porter Songbook. Best female singer ever. Don't even try to argue about it, unless you mention JM. 4. Genesis - Selling England by the Pound. 5. Smiths - have to have something by them, how about World Won't Listen, or, if not a compilation, Meat is Murder. And now I've remembered I've left out Rolling Stones Exile on Main Street, Pink Floyd DSOTM, James Taylor Mud Slide Slim, Santana Abraxas, Stevie Wonder Innervisions... this is jolly difficult, isn't it? Who decided we only had 5 choices, anyway?... Michael Jackson Thriller, and loads of other stuff. Phil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:41:49 -0500 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: that Joni trouble Dawn: >>After 4 years in a relationship with someone who refused >>to give Joni a chance, I am on my own and I must say, >>I have been affirming my independence by reveling in her music. Lori: >Dawn, you are not alone in finding that immense love for Joni and >her music can sometimes be a relationship-breaker ... I, too, recently >ended a significant relationship... "Joni Mitchell broke up my relationship!!" on the next Rikki Lake! ;^) John~ NP "Rimshot" Erykah Badu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:37:50 EST From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: bye bye In a message dated 12/14/98 6:17:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << I forget who was talking about "Jersey Girl" which Springsteen covered and was included in his live box set. While his version is good, I wanted to make sure that Tom Waits, the song's writer, got the credit he so richly deserves - >> hey bob...are you sure about that? i am fairly certain bruce wrote jersey girl...am i wrong? peace, ric ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:51:05 -0800 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: (NJC) Klein (the big one) gets away Phil Klein wrote: > OK, I can be free for a couple of hours if I can get away from the > wife, kids and in-laws..... Great! I hope you're loaded 'cause unless your name is Larry le grande boom-boom Klein and/or you have a bent fireman, I'm charging a Chartreuse Versace per minute ;~D Susan L.A. Honey McBabe-"...I was free in Paris..."-JoniM with world reduction ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:54:24 -0800 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: credit where credit is due....(NJC) Bob correctly points out that "Jersey Girl" is a Tom Waitts tune. MG (you can take the girl out of Jersey, but you can't take Jersey out of the girl......) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:09:16 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[4]: Jersey Girl ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: bye bye Author: RickieLee1@aol.com at fdinet Date: 12/14/98 12:37 PM In a message dated 12/14/98 6:17:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << I forget who was talking about "Jersey Girl" which Springsteen covered and was included in his live box set. While his version is good, I wanted to make sure that Tom Waits, the song's writer, got the credit he so richly deserves - >> hey bob...are you sure about that? i am fairly certain bruce wrote jersey girl...am i wrong? peace, ric Ric, I'm bettin' a paycheck on it - I guarantee it! Trust me... Holly Cole also does a nice version on her all Tom Waits cover album. Bruce does such a good job with the tune, it's his kind of song, + the title "Jersey Girl", but it's Tom's song. He probably wrote it knowing that Bruce would sing it and he could reap the royalty $$ :~) P.S. Interesting related trivia - The OTHER Rickielee, Ms. Jones, hung with Waits for awhile and is pictured with him (her back to the camera) on the cover of his classic "Blue Valentine". Peace back atcha, Bob NP: Seal "Bring it On" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:19:14 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re: that Joni trouble Dawn: >>After 4 years in a relationship with someone who refused >>to give Joni a chance, I am on my own and I must say, >>I have been affirming my independence by reveling in her music. Lori: >Dawn, you are not alone in finding that immense love for Joni and >her music can sometimes be a relationship-breaker ... I, too, recently >ended a significant relationship... Then John wrote: "Joni Mitchell broke up my relationship!!" on the next Rikki Lake! ;^) Or worse, put it on Jerry Springer, bring out all the old & new lovers and let 'em duke it out. (Although I don't think there's a lot of intersection between folks that listen to Joni & folks who would consent to appear on Springer...);~D Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:12:31 EST From: Barrylauri@aol.com Subject: Re: Songs That Don't Wear Out (NJC) In a message dated 12/13/98 10:50:57 AM EST, LRFye@aol.com writes: > My thoughts on songs that don't wear out: anything of Joni's, really ... and > just about all Beatles tunes ... I'll agree with you there, but let's not forget early Crosby Stills Nash & Young and early Led Zepplen. Laurie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:27:26 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Songs That Don't Wear Out (NJC) Barrylauri@aol.com wrote: > > My thoughts on songs that don't wear out: anything of Joni's, really ... Except, of course, Dog Eat Dog :^) Jerry np: Ella Fitzgerald's Christmas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:30:37 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Top 5 from a once and future JMDLer From: Michael Yarbrough Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:28:56 -0500 I've been taking a break from the JMDL for a little over a month now, but I do take a peek at the online archives every once and a while and saw a poll I just couldn't pass up. These five aren't necessarily my *favorite* albums (though they rank high on that list as well), but what I consider to be the best five of the albums I know well enough to judge: 1) Beatles, _Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band_ 2) Marvin Gaye, _What's Going On?_ 3) Public Enemy, _It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back_ 4) Radiohead, _OK Computer_ 5) Joni Mitchell, _Hissing of Summer Lawns_ Bubbling under, in no particular order: Patti Smith, _Horses_ R.E.M., _Automatic for the People_ Stevie Wonder, _Innervisions_ Madonna, _Erotica_ Pet Shop Boys, _Very_ k.d. lang, _Ingenue_ Arrested Development, _3 Years, 5 Months and 2 Days in the Life of..._ Who, _Who's Next_ Portishead, _Dummy_ Bjork, _Homogenic_ Big Star, _Radio City_ Liz Phair, _Exile in Guyville_ Prince, _Purple Rain_ The Artist, _The Gold Experience_ Madonna, _Like a Prayer_ R.E.M., _Murmur_ Belle and Sebastian, _If You're Feeling Sinister_ Joni Mitchell, _Blue_ Dusty Springfield, _Dusty in Memphis_ Aretha Franklin, _Lady Soul_ Nirvana, _Nevermind_ And you know there may be more. Someone tried to start a poll about disappointing albums--top my list with Neil Young, _Harvest_. I was literally appalled the first time I heard it. I'm really digging _Sleeps with Angels_ though... Have fun in Joniland... - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:50:22 -0800 From: Don Sloan Subject: Top 5 and then some... Before this thread is dead, I guess I better get my list in.... though as you all know, it's really impossible to pick only five..... especially if you have been on the planet as long as some of us here have :->> In no particular order...... 1. STAS - Joni (although this could have been C&S, Hejira or Clouds, having been there when this was first released, it will always hold a special place in my heart.) 2. Our Children's Children - Moody Blues (maybe you had to be there to really appreciate these guys, but if you were on the spiritual or chemical path back then, you had to love 'em!) 3. Deja Vu - CSNY (the only reason this *won out* over the first LP is due to the presence of Neil who I love on his own as well as with the other guys here.) 4. Who Knows Where The Time Goes - Judy Collins (2 or 3 of the cuts still bring tears to my eyes.... some beautiful stuff here.) 5. Abbey Road - The Beatles (I think side two of this LP is probably the best written/produced and performed single side ever put on disk.) If I could add a couple more, there would be: - - The Electric Flag - An American Music Band (this self-titled LP has some of the best soul/blues work on it you can find IMO. The guitar work of the late Michael Bloomfield is very very hard to beat and worth buying the CD for.) - - Moondance - Van - - Aja - Steely Dan - - Getz/Gilberto #2 - Live at Carnegie Hall - - Live at the Regal - B.B. King - - My Time After A While - Buddy Guy - - Rickie Lee Jones - - Bookends - Simon and Garfunkel As for some best songs (leaning here to stuff not on fav LPs): Since I Don't Have You - Skyliners A Day in the Life - The Beatles Because - Dave Clark Five Caroline No - The Beach Boys What's So Good About Goodbye - Smokey Robinson First Love - Poco Crazy - Patsy Cline Crying - Roy Orbison Love Song to a Stranger - Joan Baez I knew I couldn't do no damn Top 5 List and leave it at that!!! Don ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:51:48 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) A coupl'a gripes, grumbles and groans Paul T. wrote: > 2. Re comments recently about gay > men being put on earth by God to model tolerance to heterosexuals... er, no. > Heterosexuals will have to sort out their own shit, I'm afraid. We're too > busy rushing aroung trying to avoid being verbally abused, kicked to death > etc etc to be models for anyone else. and: > I know what you're saying about 'what happens in other people's bedrooms is > none of our business'. But if that were true, Matt Sheppard wouldn't be > dead right now. Heterosexuals and Lesbians/Gay men aren't the same, cos the > latter (in which I include myself) suffer discrimination and prejudice every day - > even if for the more fortunate of us, this is experienced in very minor and > seemingly insignificant ways. We're not equal, and no amount of saying so > is gonna make us equal. Yet! I was the person who first suggested that gays are on this earth to Teach Tolerance by example, and as a lesbian, I stand by my statement. But, Paul, I do agree with your statements, too. I often think that gay men have a more difficult time of it and experience a whole lot more discrimination and bashing -- but lesbians receive "their share," too. Part of it has to do with how well we appear to assimilate with straight society, i.e., can you pass for straight? I do (based on how often people ask about my presumed husband and children), but that wasn't always the case and I'm not suggesting that gay men and lesbians try to pass for anything but themselves. Because it's not always assumed that I'm gay, I often let people get to know, and hopefully to like, me ... and then I drop the "bombshell" upon them. 99% of the time they react favorably and are left with the knowledge that they now know a real live homosexual person who is just as normal as anyone else they know. It works for me, and it promotes tolerance and understanding, one previously prejudiced heterosexual at a time. This is not to say that I am just going to stand there and let someone beat the crap out of me if they're trying to ... just that I'm not going to throw the first punch. I don't know when gay people will achieve legal equality with straight people, but I hoping and even occasionally praying that I live long enough to experience it. Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:01:21 -0500 From: Tortorici@exchange.conference-board.org Subject: jewel and judy collins--not joni To the person who mentioned that Jewel might be playing with Joni next year. I think what your daughter is referring to is Madison Square Garden in NY's "Women In Music" concert, scheduled for January 1999. Jewel and Judy Collins will be the headliners. As this list well knows, many people confuse Judy and Joni because of "Both Sides Now" and "Chelsea Morning." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:16:38 PST From: "s. kelly" Subject: My Top 5 (...9 disguised as 5...) My Top 5: 1. "Court and Spark" - Joni 2. *tie*: "Blue" - Joni / "The Hissing of Summer Lawns" - Joni 3. *tie*: "For the Roses" - Joni / "Songs in the Key of Life" - Stevie Wonder 4. *tie*: "Ami Ou Ennemi" - Maurane / "Whats Going On" - Marvin Gaye 5. *tie*: "Only What I Feel" - Patty Loveless / "Sgt. Pepper" -the Beatles sandra eight_thirteen@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:13:33 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Songs That Don't Wear Out (JC again) It was me, and not Barrylauri Laurie, who wrote: > My thoughts on songs that don't wear out: anything of Joni's, really ... Jerry replied: > Except, of course, Dog Eat Dog :^) Sorry, Jerry, but I have to disagree ... I played the entirety of DED twice in a row this morning, and I anticipate that I'll play it half a dozen more times tonight! I'm just in that mood, and I really do love that album! Even "Ethiopia"... Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:32:04 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Top 5 from a once and future JMDLer Michael wrote: >Someone tried to start a poll about disappointing albums--top my list >with Neil Young, _Harvest_. I was literally appalled the first time I >heard it No offense to Neil fans but this is a perfect disappointment choice! I was "there" when it came out and everyone I knew thought it was the greatest album they ever heard. I wasn't quite appalled but sure did fret a lot to myself wondering why I could not see what everyone else saw in it. It was played constantly on the radio and every dorm room for at least 18 months in college until I wanted to scream. I've had a hard time listening to Neil ever since. Speaking of overplayed songs, I nearly lost my great love for Led Zep after having to hear "Stairway to Heaven" played (it seemed like) 50,000 times during my college years. Arrrrr. Kakki NP: Yvette in English ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:04:58 -0500 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: joni on the radio in America Susan Chaloner wrote: >All I really want for christmas is mega-airplay for TTT and that >cutie Klein ;~) Then Phil volunteered: >OK, I can be free for a couple of hours if I can get away from the >wife, kids and in-laws..... >P G Klein OK, SMcBabe. You get Phil...I get Larry! ;-D Marsha, thinking Joni would be a tough act to follow... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:06:35 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: Jersey Girl In a message dated 12/14/98 1:22:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com writes: << << I forget who was talking about "Jersey Girl" which Springsteen covered and was included in his live box set. While his version is good, I wanted to make sure that Tom Waits, the song's writer, got the credit he so richly deserves - >> hey bob...are you sure about that? i am fairly certain bruce wrote jersey girl...am i wrong? peace, ric Ric, I'm bettin' a paycheck on it - I guarantee it! Trust me... >> Ric, Trust him. It was Waits. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 98 21:23:43 GMT From: kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant) Subject: Celebration at Big Sur Reminder (HBO/SIG) Hi, For those of you *lucky* enough to get that *rare* channel HBO SIG from your cable/satellite company, here's the schedule for Celebration at Big Sur for the remainder of Dec. The program description is copied from HBO's website (what's up with Joni getting last billing???) If anyone who gets this channel is able to make a copy of this for me I'd really appreciate it! (email me privately with your address and I'll put a blank and postage in the mail today, or we can trade for audio.) Thanks, -Kenny ==================================================================== Revisit the Woodstock era in this vintage rock-n-roll show shot in September of 1969 during the three-day festival at Big Sur, California. The crowd-wowing acts include Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, Joan Baez, John Sebastian and Joni Mitchell. Schedule: HBO/SIG East HBO/SIG West - ------------ ------------- Mon 12/14 10:00P Mon 12/14 1:00A Fri 12/18 7:45A Fri 12/18 10:45A Mon 12/21 12:30P Mon 12/21 3:30P ======================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:32:38 -0800 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: (?JC) Taking up the Kleins in Joni's slack Marsha wrote: > OK, SMcBabe. You get Phil...I get Larry! ;-D Ha! :~D No way baber! I can't go for this exclusive stuff especially when I'm being dealt out :~D Besides I'm stuck on that Larry dude: at least for five minutes ;~) Never one to sneeze at variety I say we switch every other orgasm };~D > Marsha, thinking Joni would be a tough act to follow... Tough maybe but not imp-possible...I have just graduated 'cum whatever' with an honourable arrogant bitch ticket: follow me, I'm right behind you ;~D The way I look at baber: between the two of us we should be able to pull something off ;~) Susan L.A. Honey McBabe-"...purring by your side..."-JoniM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:56:21 EST From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[4]: Jersey Girl well would you look at that! got my tom waits anthology in my hand and sure enough, jersey girl! second time this year i was wrong! i was thinking about "because the night belongs to lovers", for some weird reason... anyway, i stand corrected and i thank you. love, ric (going back to being right now...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:54:04 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Washington D.C. ANYONE? Hello All- I am in the lovely but tense capitol of our nation. I was wondering if there are any listers that live in the area. I have tonight free and am getting ready to grab a bite at Sushi Kappo. I have my cell phone with me (504-236-0779). I will be attending a conference all day tomorrow on the Reconstruction of Central America. I will have some more free time tomorrow evening as well. Hope to hear from JMDLers out there. Best, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:24:36 -0500 From: "Dave Doherty" Subject: top 5 albums Hi all, this is such a hard task, but here goes. 1. Born to Run - Bruce 2. Hejira - Joni 3. Led Zep 4 4. East Side Story - Squeeze 5. Boy - U2. '' I am as constant as an Northern Star'' David. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:55:11 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com Subject: Re[2]: Joni Slagging: Medical Reason??? Mark, You make a lot of interesting points, the health/mind connection is very critical indeed and one that we're just getting our arms around in this country. My add to this discussion would be that she appears cantankerous only because that's her response to so much of the MEDIA, the "starmaker machinery". When I met her this year after the Atlanta show, she was sweet, happy, gracious & glowing. I think the difference is that she was talking with genuine fans & not just another someone doing their job. Bob M. in SC NP: Joni live @ The Gorge, "Slouching" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 20:27:57 -0600 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: Jersey Girl(NJC) Just a side note: In an interview, Tom said, he never thought he would catch himself saying'sha la la' in a song. It was an experiment. It had a Drifters feel about it. He tried to do it straight on....A guy walking down the street to see his girl. jody ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:31:51 EST From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: Jersey Girl(NJC) its a great song, no doubt about it. and that remarkable voice!! bless tom waits. peace and good will, love, ric ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:33:14 EST From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Cry Cry Cry (NJC) now for one of those nifty titles.... AY YI YIPPIE YIPPIE YI YAY ....i mean CRY CRY CRY at the Troubadour, December 13th, 1998 being more of a rock fan, than a folk/country fan, usually i wouldn't have gone to this show at all. but i did like dar williams and had missed the chance to see her last October 'cos of an unfortunate trip to Chicago (yeah right). so i bought some tickets, invited a friend, put on my best Dixie Chick face and took my place in line. the Trou is one of my favorite clubs just 'cos it's so small and cozy and fun. i know the ropes totally now, so i felt perfectly comfortable taking posters off the walls. my friend looked at me sort of horrified like, "are we allowed to do this?" the proprieters like you to do it though...what are they gonna do with the posters after the show's over? so instead of pay four dollars at the merchendise spot in the bar, i just took the for free. my favorites are the ones with the dates. the opening act were the Neilds (sp?). two sisters with tremendous voices. i enjoyed them. i enjoyed their songs and their voices. although i don't know if it could be captured of record though. i was really out to see Dar. the Neilds (Narissa and Katrina) played a nice set, singing quirky songs that they wrote. they even sang one about Georgia O'Keefe which went: "I wanna be a woman like you, I wanna be a woman like me." Cry Cry Cry consists of Dar Williams (who was wearing a lovely chinese style purple dress), Lucy Kaplansky (a vivacious woman with hair to match), and Richard Shindell (a mad hatter type). they played what they believed were exemplary folk song of "our" era as oppose to old stuff. they were great harmonizers, playing guitar and singing good fun folky songs and even songs that weren't folky like R.E.M's "Fall On Me". yay! they each played one of their own songs. Dar played "February", from her second album "Mortal City". they came back for two encores. i was all around snapping pictures of Dar and Lucy and Richard. it was fun. they played "The Christians and the Pagans", a fun Dar song in which she got us to sing the back up (the christians...the pagans...together...owhoa...halle...leluia...owhoa). finally at the end, i told my friend to just stick around and they'd come out as they always do. and of course they did. this time they sat with sharpies to sign things. so they all signed my posters and Dar signed my "Honesty Room" album. she is TINY, really, really short, shorter than me in heels. Dar was acting a little aloof but i don't know if that was just 'cos she was tired or something else. Lucy and Richard were great though. really nice. apparently this is the last leg of this part of the tour. glad i could go. it took a while for me to stop judging it as a "i hate country music yeeewww" person and just judging it on whether i liked it or not. it wasn't the best concert ever (that crown belongs to elliott smith), but i had a good time and was glad to go. next up: sarah, los lobos, jackson browne, bonnie raitt, and keb mob at the Santa Monica Civic this friday... - -mariana NP: breeders, -pod- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #512 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?