From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #510 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Sunday, December 13 1998 Volume 03 : Number 510 JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to info-jonifest1999@jmdl.com for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- heading to the record store (njc) [evian ] Re: Baring all or slagging? ["Kakki" ] All this talk about girly guile ["Kakki" ] [Fwd: BOUNCE joni@smoe.org: Admin request of type /\buns\w*b/iat line 3] [catman ] Re: Rickie Lee on Joni [JAWebster2@aol.com] [Fwd: $10 Off On Your Next Music Boulevard Purchase!] [Jerry Notaro ] Re: JMDL Digest V3 #509 [TheHotelNH@aol.com] Re: slagging P.S. girly guile [Mark or Travis ] Re: "I am a child of the 80s, and for that I must pay....." - My all-time Top 5 (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Joni with Jewel? [luvart@snet.net] Re: Joni with Jewel? [LRFye@aol.com] Re: Joni with Jewel? [luvart@snet.net] Re: Joni with Jewel? (JMDL party?) [LRFye@aol.com] Joni Slagging: Medical reason??? (Long) ["Mark T. Klempner" ] [Fwd: Acronyms] ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Top 5 [MmeDido@aol.com] Re: Personal Top 5 ever -Reply [MmeDido@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 02:28:22 -0600 From: evian Subject: heading to the record store (njc) > Bet there are a few of us visiting the record stores in the next few weeks > and trying some new ones out for ourselves. > You said it!! After hearing about Astral Weeks forever, I am finally going to check it out! The only Van I have is Moondance. Also, going to pick up Aja too. Only Steely Dan I have is the greatest hits. And, after the urging from my friend, and the good taste I find on the list, I am gonna check out Ferron! I love these list posts! Keep them coming!!Evian np: Toad the Wet Sprocket -- "Dulcinea" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 00:37:02 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Baring all or slagging? Heather wrote: >Gee, I always thought she was indicating that she "bared her soul" by >posing nude for the FTR album (to go along with the lyrics). I like your >"kiss my ass" explaination, though :-) I also thought she was baring her soul, so to speak, but there are actually a couple of interviews with her on the JM and JMDL sites where I learned of the "other" explanation. I tried to look them up again for reference but my server is barely running with all the holiday web traffic. I think some of this was in the interview with Morrissey. Kakki NP: Santana - Persuasion ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 01:27:13 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: All this talk about girly guile I often wonder if I'm the only one around here who doesn't feel offended when Joni talks critical of the girly guile stuff. And really, I am not a simple "Joni worshiper at all costs". I suspect that some of Joni's personal reference points harken back to the way things were 30+ years ago for female artists. I remember so many of the female (and many male) acts on the radio back them *were* manufactured for "Top 40" and performed simple, formulaic material. (Think of the proliferation of "girl groups" that were designed to be almost copies of each other in the 60s). This is a very large reason why Dylan, Joni, etc. were so astounding and revolutionary when they first emerged on the scene back. We all know she, along with others, were pioneers in the new music that exploded in the 60s. Joni, Laura Nyro, Janis Joplin, Grace Slick, Joan Baez - they were all complete originals and as distinct from one another as could be. I think that when she sees even a hint of the "manufactured" or formulaic approach happening again after all this time, she gets cynical and feels like it is artificial and a backward digression instead of fresh progress. She has stated in interviews that she knows of some currently popular female artists who have been totally manufactured. I believe her - she certainly is in a position to know these things and is a credible source. I don't think her tone is so much arrogance as it is cynicism and distaste for how the system works. In the context of where she comes from, I can understand why she casts a critical eye and upturned nose at some of it. And in another way she is standing up for the female artists out there who are truly original and struggling to make it on an increasingly uneven playing field. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:50:16 +0000 From: catman Subject: [Fwd: BOUNCE joni@smoe.org: Admin request of type /\buns\w*b/iat line 3] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------A349D7804D9D15B629598E3A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk - --------------A349D7804D9D15B629598E3A Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk id 913443252:20:02784:9; Sat, 12 Dec 98 06:14:12 GMT Received: from leo.pcisys.net ([207.76.102.240]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2126949; 12 Dec 98 6:13 GMT Received: from lesirvin (csd123.cos.pcisys.net [207.204.7.123]) by leo.pcisys.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) via SMTP id XAA03280 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 23:13:34 -0700 (MST) env-from (Les@Irvin.com) Message-Id: <4.1.19981211230028.00aacce0@jmdl.com> X-Sender: les@jmdl.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 23:01:57 -0700 To: catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: BOUNCE joni@smoe.org: Admin request of type /\buns\w*b/i at line 3 In-Reply-To: <199812120249.VAA15246@smoe.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12/11/98 07:49 PM , owner-joni@smoe.org wrote: >Oh god i am sorry that was supposed to go to my survivor list. I am getting >pretty >sick of making a fool of myself here. >please unsub me Les. Hey don't leave, my friend. Mistakes happen, especially considering what you've been through. Les - --------------A349D7804D9D15B629598E3A-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:37:06 -0500 (EST) From: "Mark T. Klempner" Subject: Mark Spolestra? (1.66% JC) I once heard an album by a guy named Mark Spolestra--not sure of the spelling. I think he did the coffeehouse circuit around the same time as Joni, Phil Ochs, Baez, Dylan . . . . It was a great album, esp. one cut that was spoken word with a guitar in the background. Has anyone heard of him? Whatever happened to him? I would love to get my hands on that album again . . . Mark in Chapel Hill ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:59:40 EST From: JAWebster2@aol.com Subject: Re: Rickie Lee on Joni In a message dated 12/12/98 3:03:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > > Perhaps it has been discussed before, but the recent mentioning of Rickie > Lee Jones somewhere made me think of it so I'll broach the topic. On some > interview I read, Rickie showed disrespect for Joni, especially her jazz > efforts, saying that it wasn't part of who she was or where she was from.... ... For her to say > that was extremely short minded, and I can never forget it....And > I've always guessed that her disrespect for Joni stems from jealousy, as > Joni is much more revered than she. > > Just some thoughts, > Eric While I have never read anything that Rickie has said about Joni, I have read Joni's responses to what she believed to be disrespect from Rickie. Ouch! Not a lot of love lost there! I think Rickie is somewhat like Joni in that she is easily provoked and has no problem saying exactly what she feels at any moment. There was a time when she was enduring constant (and unkind) comparison to Joni, and I think that after awhile, her reaction was to lash out. Weird that Rickie would pick Joni's more jazz-influenced material to put down. Eric - do you know when this interview was conducted? I guess I find it weird, since Rickie threw herself headfirst into jazz with the "Pop Pop" album in '91. I found myself in an odd situation this summer. I was backstage at the Newport Folk Fest, talking to Rickie Lee Jones about Joni Mitchell. I had just gotten my advance of TTT and asked Rickie if she had heard it yet. Now either Rickie is just a very polite conversationalist, or she's definitely a fan. She was very interested in the concept behind the record, who produced it, what it sounded like... My only problem was that I had only heard it a couple of times at that point, and was having a really hard time coming up with words to describe it. jessica ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 1956 08:48:55 +0000 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: [Fwd: $10 Off On Your Next Music Boulevard Purchase!] Return-Path: CEGiqAB.4.s@my.musicblvd.com Received: from pm1.postdirect.com (ip-21.postdirect.com [209.185.252.21] (may be forged)) by bayflash.stpt.usf.edu (8.8.7/8.6.5) with ESMTP id TAA13555 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 19:50:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from postdirect.com (ip-65.postdirect.com [209.185.252.65] (may be forged)) by pm1.postdirect.com (8.8.8/) with ESMTP id QAA09448 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 16:44:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812120044.QAA09448@pm1.postdirect.com> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 16:43:46 PST From: Music Boulevard Subject: $10 Off On Your Next Music Boulevard Purchase! Sender: Music Boulevard To: Gerald Notaro Reply-To: Music Boulevard Errors-To: CEGiqAB.4.s@my.musicblvd.com Content-Type: text ****************************************************** MUSIC BOULEVARD'S AMAZING NEW OFFERS * $10 Off Your Next Purchase * New Release Recommendations * Holiday Special ****************************************************** Dear Gerald, Did you know? You are only ~7~ CDs away from a FREE CD! Thanks for being a Frequent Buyer at Music Boulevard. In order to help you with your holiday shopping, we're giving you $10 OFF on your next Music Boulevard order! Hurry, this offer expires on December 31, 1998 at 11:59 E.S.T. http://p0.com/r.d?6B2Ayy1vE=musicblvd/cgi-bin/tw/5084_0_main.txt But wait, there's more...check out this Holiday Special!! Our Music Gear shop.... where we have all of the goods for all of your music interests. http://p0.com/r.d?yB2Ayy1vE=musicblvd/cgi-bin/tw/5084_20_acc ****************************************************** We also have some new release specials, just for you... Rock with Passion.... Pop with an Edge.... Get Kati Mac's "Time" a Music Boulevard Exclusive is on SALE NOW! http://p0.com/r.d?uB2Ayy1vE=musicblvd/cgi-bin/tw/5084_43_632101 Enjoy a masterpiece of sensuous R&B jazz! Buy Najee's "Morning Tenderness" and get a free CD sampler on us. http://p0.com/r.d?_h2Ayy1vE=musicblvd/cgi-bin/tw/5084_43_625071 ****************************************************** Holiday Special Here's an easy way to find all of your holiday gifts. A one stop shop.. our Gift Center. http://p0.com/r.d?tB2Ayy1vE=musicblvd/cgi-bin/tw/5084_0_giftcenter/giftcenter.txt And remember our Top 100 Sellers are ALWAYS on sale. http://p0.com/r.d?iB2Ayy1vE=musicblvd/cgi-bin/tw/5084_0_lists/t100.txt We hope you enjoy these special offers and Happy Holidays! >From one music fan to another, Chris Hoerenz Store Manager www.musicblvd.com P.S. If, for any reason, you'd prefer not to receive future updates or announcements from Music Boulevard, you may reply to this email and type "unsubscribe" as the subject line of your reply. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 10:04:34 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: [Fwd: $10 Off On Your Next Music Boulevard Purchase!] Gosh, it's 2000 already? :-) Mark, laughing the Y2K bug away At 8:48 AM +0000 8/28/56, Jerry Notaro wrote: ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:03:00 EST From: Jonimeistr@aol.com Subject: Re: neighbor Marilyn, Good answer.I ,too am Catholic and know exactly what you mean.Most people are quick to refer to the Bible especially if there is a passage that fits their need....Sodom and Gomorah(check my spelling) is one of the favorites. I agree with you in that we shouldn't all be grouped the same.There are some really good people in this world that believe God is a good God.I am a firm believer in that prayer will change things.Maybe if we all would take a little time to reaquaint ourselves with HIM,the whole world would be a little more tolerent of persons different from ourselves and a better place in general. That's my two cents worth. Willie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:40:33 -0500 From: Mary Becker Subject: tape tree*3*??, jazz recs-help!(SJC) Oops! I won't even go into why I thought I was receiving #3, but thanks Ashara, for pointing out it was Vol 1 &2 you sent me. Hope I didn't get anyone else confused! One of the things I'm really enjoying on this list is the huge variety of musical tastes. The top 5 picks have been fun and revealing (I want to change some of mine already--I think!). Anyway, I picked up H. Hancock"s _Gershwin's World_ a couple weeks ago, and it has really grown on me. Then I decided I needed to check out Miles Davis _Kind of Blue_ after it showed up on so many top 5 lists. Like that too. And I am ready to venture further into jazz, but don't know where to begin! Any suggestions?? I don't even know what kind of jazz I like! Couple other questions--Jane Silberry has shown up numerous times and sounds interesting, could someone describe her music for me? Also Julie someone, couldn't find her last name on all these digests I have to sift through. Finally, I have done a considerable amount of shopping via the net this holiday. The gift "catalogue" that came with my Amazon order featured _Hits_ on the page of books and cds titled "can't put 'em down...can't turn 'em off. It was nice to see Joni included, unusual. Mary NP in my local supermarket in the past week:_Free Man in Paris_ and _Edith and the Kingpin_ ! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:47:54 EST From: TheHotelNH@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V3 #509 Hi everybody, I've been putting off doing my top 5 list because I knew it would be so difficult. Most of the time, I just lurk in the shadows. I wanted to respond to this topic. And now that people are naming their favorite songs, I figured I'd better hop on the bandwagon. So here are my top 5 picks, for today: 1. The Cure - "Disintegration" This album opened my eyes and completely changed the music that I listen to, and the way I listen to it. It's The Cure at their best. 2. Tori Amos - "Boys For Pele" This cd is groundbreaking. She ventures through so many different musical styles to tell an interesting story. It also came out at an interesting time in my life and brings back great memories. Tori explains the cd in an article in B-Side magazine. If there are Tori fans out there, you guys need to check out this article. Let me know and I'll tell you where to look. 3. Joni Mitchell - "Blue" A tough, tough pick. Hejira and HOSL are both up there too, but I just got those so they're very fresh to me. Blue really means a lot to me and brings back pleasant memories. Who knows....it could change in a few years. Turbulent Indigo is another favorite. 4.Morrissey - "Vauxhall and I" Like a drive through the English countryside....at full throttle. 5. Bjork - "Post" It was between Bjork and 10,000 Maniacs, but I had to pick Bjork. She's just walking originality. Don't expect the same thing twice from her. Again a tough pick. Either one of the other two albums could easily grab this spot. Honorable Mentions (the rest of the list in no particular order): 10,000 Maniacs - Our Time In Eden U2 - Achtung Baby Joni - Hejira, The Hissing Of Summer Lawns, Turbulent Indigo The Cure - Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me REM - Life's Rich Pageant, New Adventures in Hi-Fi Simon & Garfunkel - The 3-cd box set. The Smiths - Louder Than Bombs Sinead O'Connor - I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got Radiohead - OK Computer Tori Amos - From The Choirgirl Hotel Portishead - Portishead Bjork - Homogenic Ok, that's enough for now...I'll save the top ten songs for next time. Happy Holidays, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:59:34 -0800 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: slagging P.S. girly guile luvart@snet.net wrote: > > At 12:26 PM 12/11/98 -0800, you wrote: > >She wasn't so much "posing nude" as conveying one of her first of many ways > >of saying "kiss my ass" to the record biz et al. > > Gee, I always thought she was indicating that she "bared her soul" by > posing nude for the FTR album (to go along with the lyrics). I like your > "kiss my ass" explaination, though :-) > > Heather Gee, I always thought it was just a really nice, tasteful picture of a free spirit 'lookin' way out at the ocean'. As a matter of fact I once had a friend of mine take a picture of me standing on a log in the Mississippi river, looking out.....well.....never mind. Mark in Seattle (born & raised on the muddy Mississippi in Keokuk, Iowa.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:21:49 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: it don't snow here, it stays pretty green A little behind in my mail and deleting like crazy, I didn't not delete Dawn Patch's post: > This is my first posting, but I have been happily lurking for the past > few weeks. I have enjoyed the list quite a bit, and at least once a day > I find something that makes me think "these are my people". Welcome to the JMDL, Dawn! > After 4 years in a relationship with someone who refused to give Joni a chance, I > am on my own and I must say, I have been affirming my independence by > reveling in her music. Dawn, you are not alone in finding that immense love for Joni and her music can sometimes be a relationship-breaker ... I, too, recently ended a significant relationship ... while there were certainly other reasons besides my "Joni jones," that did indeed contribute to our ever-widening chasm ... Since then I have traveled to New York to see and hear Joni sing "Woodstock" at Yasgur's Farm, something I would not have been able to do if I had stayed in that stifling situation. Although I'm still sad about the ending of my relationship, I feel much more like myself these days. And that's a good thing! Isn't it amazing that Joni's stuff is that powerful? Do some members of other musicians' discussion lists encounter their relationships falling apart? Why do we choose partners who won't at least LISTEN to what's important to us? Who won't be a little more flexible? Again, glad to have you aboard, Dawn! I wish I had a river I could skate away on ... Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 14:47:12 EST From: MmeDido@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Slagging Other Artists In a message dated 98-12-11 23:09:46 EST, : << << I've also been contemplating her song Turbulent Indigo. What does she really know about living in Turbulent Indigo? >> I just wanted to jump into the fray to comment here.... To meee....most of the songs on turbulent indigo...(especially the title song) were narrative rather than self confessional....as an example of the latter I would site..." real good for free" as a more personal comment. "Turbulent Indigo" was "about" an artist to me. I think it is an amalgamation of at least 2 'tortured artists' of the 20th and 21st centuries...Van Gogh & Pollock ....the reference to pissing in the fireplace was from a story of Pollock as remembered by Audrey Flack in her (wonderful) book "Art and Soul"...whether thant's where Joni got it from I don't know...anyway that song tears me up :) I have always liked Joni's 'curmudgeonly' side....I find it refreshing an generally right on. Especially since she speaks highly of Laura Nyro :) as for the 'next gen Joni" club I want to add Emily Saliers to the bunch... although her work doesn't have the 'depth' of Joni's at this time, she has written some really great songs. "Loves Recovery"and "Mystery" spring to mind here. that's it for now. ta ! :) claire np: First Songs - Nyro ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 15:42:45 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Slagging Other Artists << I've also been contemplating her song Turbulent Indigo. What does she really know about living in Turbulent Indigo? >> claire wrote: > I just wanted to jump into the fray to comment here.... > To meee....most of the songs on turbulent indigo...(especially the title song) > were narrative rather than self confessional.... Now I wish I hadn't been so delete-happy this morning and had followed this entire thread ... I agree with claire on this point ... Joni seems to be speaking for Van Gogh (who obviously cannot speak for himself) when she asks: "Oh what do you know about/Living in turbulent indigo?" The turbulence of Van Gogh's life is well- documented, and Joni blends that knowledge with reference to Van Gogh's indigo period. Joni is regarded by many to be a self-confessional songwriter, and she was that for many years. However, with some exceptions, she largely left behind self-confession with the recording of Mingus, and has evolved into a story teller and political commentator extraordinaire. Joni's "favorite themes" have changed, and I really believe she would appreciate recognition of that. Lori, with tickets in hand for next month's Van Gogh exhibit in L.A. (yippee!) San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 21:16:16 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: "I am a child of the 80s, and for that I must pay....." - My all-time Top 5 (NJC) OK, so the subject header is a giveaway to the absence of any joni in my top 5 (though at least half a dozen would be in my top 50)..... 1. The Blue Nile - Hats 2. Howard Jones - Human's Lib 3. Tears For Fears - Songs From The Big Chair 4. Peter Gabriel - So 5. U2 - The Unforgettable Fire just bubbling under : Crowded House - Together Alone ABC - the Lexicon Of Love Prince - Sign Of The Times, Purple Rain Joni - Night Ride Home, Hejira Peter Gabriel - So Everything But The Girl - Walking Wounded The Blue Nile - Peace At Last, A Walk Across The Rooftops Scritti Politti - Cupid And Psyche 85 kd lang - Ingenue Jason, really feeling like he ought to check out more of this "60s music" that's getting mentioned.... ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 16:16:51 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: "I am a child of the 80s, and for that I must pay....." (NJC) > Jason, really feeling like he ought to check out more of this "60s > music" that's getting mentioned.... ;-) Jason, you should do that, but -- for a terrific '80s album -- how about checking out Joni's Dog Eat Dog, if you haven't done so already? Although they didn't make my list, three of your top 5 are also favorites of mine: > 3. Tears For Fears - Songs From The Big Chair > 4. Peter Gabriel - So > 5. U2 - The Unforgettable Fire as well as: > Prince - Purple Rain > Joni - Night Ride Home, Hejira > Scritti Politti - Cupid And Psyche 85 > kd lang - Ingenue You have good taste, Jason! Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 17:00:02 EST From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Re: heading to the record store (njc) In a message dated 12/12/98 8:36:06 AM, evian@sk.sympatico.ca wrote: >You said it!! After hearing about Astral Weeks forever, I am finally >going to check it out! The only Van I have is Moondance. Also, going >to pick up Aja too. Only Steely Dan I have is the greatest hits. And, >after the urging from my friend, and the good taste I find on the list, >I am gonna check out Ferron! I love these list posts! Keep them >coming!!Evian ditto. all i want for xmas is music certificates or money. i'm still out to get The Amps and Quasi. after clicking around some Pixies pages, I also want the Kelley Deal 6000. - -mariana NP; Offspring, -Americana- - -mariana ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 17:04:10 EST From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Re: All this talk about girly guile In a message dated 12/12/98 9:38:59 AM, kakkib@att.net wrote: >I think that when > >she sees even a hint of the "manufactured" or formulaic approach happening > >again after all this time, she gets cynical and feels like it is artificial > >and a backward digression instead of fresh progress. She has stated in > >interviews that she knows of some currently popular female artists who have > >been totally manufactured. I believe her - she certainly is in a position > >to know these things and is a credible source. I don't think her tone is so > >much arrogance as it is cynicism and distaste for how the system works. In > >the context of where she comes from, I can understand why she casts a > >critical eye and upturned nose at some of it. And in another way she is > >standing up for the female artists out there who are truly original and > >struggling to make it on an increasingly uneven playing field. > there is lots of manufactured music. and that's the plain truth. that's the way it is and the way it's been and the way it probably always will be. and if people like it and buy it, well, great. i don't see the point of hating it and getting upset about it. i used too, but it's just a waste of energy. it's like trying to make the world orbit backwards. it's pointless. it's the system. the only thing we can do is buy the original, sincere artists and try to play against the system. it's been done. there is sincere music from females on the radio. sarah mc, natalie m., ect. it's not all about celine d. - -mariana ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 23:05:20 +0100 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: From Pinochet to Latin Jazz -- Working Week (NJC) In celebration of the British decision to allow its courts to review the extradition of Augusto Pinochet, I've re-discovered one of the albums I used to listen to quite a lot in my teens. The Brits on this list will probably know it -- I'm talking about the album "Working Nights" by Working Week (released in 1984). Working Week (don't think they're still around?) was one of these early/mid-80s bands that layed the foundations for what was going to emerge into the "acid jazz" scene of the 90ies. What makes Working Week somewhat special (apart from their excellent music) is that they quite heavily drew upon Latin rhythms and sounds and that they sometimes employed pretty political lyrics. On "Working Nights" is a piece called "Venceremos" (We Will Win) dedicated to the Chilean protest singer Victor Jara, who was tortured and murdered by Pinochet's soldiers, shortly after their CIA-backed coup had taken place. Folks, this is a really good song! I highly recommend the entire album to everyone who likes soulful mellow latin jazz music. The lost will be found, And named out aloud. Photos carried high, The lives they've denied. It is still quite doubtful, if Pinochet really will end up being sentenced by a Spanish court, but already the process, as it is initiated now, means a moral victory for the victims and their relatives, because at least *someone* makes an effort to hold Pinochet accountable and bring his crimes into public consciousness again. All our governments were terribly wrong in supporting and maintaining crooks like Pinochet during the cold-war period, just because they were anti-communist. They should fully admit to this. Especially the USA -- the Chilean coup d'etat was one of Nixon's greatest crimes. Here in West Germany, Chilean socialists didn't receive political asylum, even though they absolutely met the legal requirements. Just out of fear to piss off the US government. A nation is breathing, In cities and farmland, In bedrooms and boardrooms, Life held in suspension. A breath that is scented, With warmth and friendship, And we sleep here as lovers, Companeros in cover, We'll tread a greater end, And so we'll move my friend, Into safer light, Knowing that we will win. Y venceremos Y venceremos. Winfried, a German conservative, but a genuine socialist at heart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 14:24:04 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: All this talk about girly guile Mariana wrote: > there is lots of manufactured music. and that's the plain truth. that's the >way it is and the way it's been and the way it probably always will be. and if >people like it and buy it, well, great. i don't see the point of hating it and >getting upset about it. i used too, but it's just a waste of energy. it's like >trying to make the world orbit backwards. it's pointless. it's the system. the >only thing we can do is buy the original, sincere artists and try to play >against the system. it's been done. there is sincere music from females on the >radio. sarah mc, natalie m., ect. it's not all about celine d. In a way it takes some guts for Joni to rant against the system. She does have the benefit of having already "made it" and does not have to worry as much about mincing her words for fear of being blackballed. She also could just gloss over it all so she won't be thought arrogant. I wonder if 10 or 20 years from now Sarah, Natalie, etc. will have her guts to take a stance for originality. The artists like them may be looked to as the "standard bearers" in the future. Will they be faced with the same questions that Joni is now asked and what will be their answers? Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 15:00:18 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: "I am a child of the 80s, and for that I must pay....." - My all-time Top 5 (NJC) Jason, You listed some great music from the 80s. I was wishing we could all list five best from each decade because there were many I loved and wanted to name, including Howard Jones - Human Lib. My other 80s faves are: Level 42 - World Machine Wang Chung - The Warmer Side of Cool Stevie Wonder - Characters Marshall Crenshaw - Marshall Crenshaw Bangles - Different Light Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:14:57 +1100 (EST) From: michaelb@coolgold.com.au (Michael) Subject: Top 5 Leaving out several Joni's 1 Crime of the Century :Supertramp 2 Hunky Dory :Bowie 3 Pretzel Logic :Steely Dan 4 Look Sharp :Joe Jackson 5 So :Peter Gabriel michaelb@coolgold.com.au http://www.coolgold.com.au/~michaelb/index.html Either we are alone in the universe ...........Or we're not............ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 19:39:23 +500 From: "Kim Korman Brown" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V3 #509 Eric I have Ghostyhead by Rickie Lee Jones and it is the first thing she did that I don't like. In another message someone said RLJ said something disrespectful about Joni, and Joni also hasn't exactly applauded the efforts of others... I think this whole world could use a large dose of respect for the efforts of the next person...Thomas Edison's grade school teacher said his brain was addled, and plenty of other people have been dissed because of a lack of generosity and a large dose of sour grapes. Hooooweee, it's the season to be jolly, I just wish everyone could appreciate the God given ability of the next person and applaud it and leave it at that. I mean I don't particularly care for Cher personally but I bet she has her beautiful moments as a human being. Back to the point about Ghostyhead Eric, (digressions are inevitable, I seem to be hitting menopause---where did I put my ginko biloba?) I wrote a column about Rickie Lee Jones (musicviews.com) and men- tioned that. I thought it was weird. But that's me. May the wind be at your back. Kim ......................................................... "You and I have brains, the others have fluff." (Winnie the Pooh) http://futurerealm.com - The HeartThread Resource Page http://worldcommunity.com - The World Community Network http://wtne-sales.com - Washington Times National Weekly National Sales Office http://musicviews.com Music Reviews by Kim Korman Brown ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 21:12:28 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Joni with Jewel? Hi- My daughter tells me she heard an interview with Jewel and Jewel states that she will be doing a concert in NYC next year. She mentions Joni is in the line up. Anyone else here anything about this? Heather ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 21:42:36 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni with Jewel? Heather wrote: > My daughter tells me she heard an interview with Jewel and Jewel states > that she will be doing a concert in NYC next year. She mentions Joni is in > the line up. Anyone else here anything about this? Haven't heard a thing but ... the 30th anniversary of Woodstock is next August ... we had such a good time in the Catskills this year that my friends and I have decided to make the trek next year, whether Joni perform or not ... wouldn't it be grand if ... ??? Who's up for it? Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 21:51:57 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: Joni with Jewel? At 09:42 PM 12/12/98 EST, you wrote: >Haven't heard a thing but ... the 30th anniversary of Woodstock is next August >... we had such a good time in the Catskills this year that my friends and I >have decided to make the trek next year, whether Joni perform or not ... >wouldn't it be grand if ... ??? > >Who's up for it? > I sure enough would be! BUT there has to be a big ol' JMDL party! Heather ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 22:02:40 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni with Jewel? (JMDL party?) I wrote: >Haven't heard a thing but ... the 30th anniversary of Woodstock is next August ... we had such a good time in the Catskills this year that my friends and I have decided to make the trek next year, whether Joni performs or not ... wouldn't it be grand if ... ??? > >Who's up for it? Heather replied: > I sure enough would be! BUT there has to be a big ol' JMDL party! I thought that would be assumed!!! : ) Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 23:50:37 -0500 (EST) From: "Mark T. Klempner" Subject: Joni Slagging: Medical reason??? (Long) I have noticed Joni become angrier over the years, and have seen her anger peaking now, both in her songs and her interviews. What I've been thinking is: maybe Joni is not completely well. My main interest besides music is medicine. I can write for pages about what I'm thinking, but I'll just throw out a few ideas. (For those who are thinking, "It's none of your business," I would say that Joni's personal life has always been intertwined with her life as an artist, and if we are going to discuss her personality, past and present partners, taste in clothes, food, and music, then her health is fair game as well.) More and more, whenever I read a Joni interview, I think "Are her adrenals weak? Has she had a thyroid check? Where are her cotisol levels?" People criticize Joni for being so negative, but it strikes me that this is not a natural part of her personality. There's a certain brittleness about her expressions of negativity that remind me of people with physical problems like hormonal imbalances that affect their mood. This isn't something people usually have to deal with in their younger years, but when you are in your 50s it is not at all unusual. When people's systems are brought back into balance it's incredible how much better they feel. I'm not saying that the things Joni is saying in her interviews are untrue, or wrong. I just wonder if those things she complains about would have gotten to her in the same way before. It's as if she has nothing to insulate her from all the maddening things about the record biz. And her songs: "Lead Balloon" (which I think is a great song) is about the kind of lack of impulse control and irritability that people experience when stress has worn down their endocrine system. Sorry to be talking medically about a piece of art, but that's how I hear the song when I think about it from a medical standpoint. Yes, there are lots of complete jerks in the biz, but there always have been and there always will be. Why is she throwing her drink at one of them NOW? David Geffen is a jerk, but in her twenties her musical response was to write "Free Man in Paris." Somehow people like him didn't get to her in the same way. When she sings the "I'm up to my neck in alligators" verse, I'm wondering, "Why NOW? Why are you so vulnerable NOW?" I believe that people should get more wise with age, but if their systems are blown out they can easily become more negative, etc. Joni has gotten wiser, but also more cantankerous. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 01:38:58 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: [Fwd: More stuff for newbies] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------1BB67B8B187C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** - --------------1BB67B8B187C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <35E4C677.3DE7@one.net> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:37:43 -0400 From: Jim L'Hommedieu Reply-To: jlamadoo@one.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: joni@smoe.org Subject: More stuff for newbies Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This does NOT mean that someone said something "snippy" or unpleasant. It just means that they snipped out some text when they assembled the post. newbie While this is not an acronym, it should be made clear that it is not a put-down. It just means someone who recently discovered this little corner of western civilization. Wally is the guy who was insane enough to spend the last 20 years assembling the web page dedicated to Joni Mitchell. www.jonimitchell.com Les another nut who built and maintains this Discussion List. He also is a focal point for activities like selling the official Joni Mitchell Internet Community shirts. Find out more at www.jmdl.com Get it? - --- Maintaining a firm grasp on the obvious, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** - --------------1BB67B8B187C-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 01:40:35 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: [Fwd: Acronyms] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------7DC51AD16153 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Addendum: LOL Laughing out loud :) A smiley :D Another smiley - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** - --------------7DC51AD16153 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <35E4C2B0.554D@one.net> Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:21:36 -0400 From: Jim L'Hommedieu Reply-To: jlamadoo@one.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Acronyms Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Acronyms are the compression of a phrase into a series of first-letters that form a new word. Like IBM comes from International Business Machines. The JMDL has a few..... like JMDL for Joni Mitchell Discussion List. Here are a few others..... np is short for "now playing" to indicate what you were listening to while posting. NJC No Joni Content. Posters can use this abbreviation to alert the readers that their post can be skipped if they are only skimming for info specifically about Joni, her bad self. If you're new to the List, welcome. - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** - --------------7DC51AD16153-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 01:36:18 EST From: MmeDido@aol.com Subject: Re: Top 5 gotta love those top 5 lists :) 1) Kind of Blue (Miles Davis) 2) New York Tendaberry (Laura Nyro) 3) Inside Betty Carter (Betty Carter) 4) Mingus (Joni Mitchell) 5) What's Goin' On ? (Marvin Gaye) :) feelin' jazzy lately claire ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 01:45:15 EST From: MmeDido@aol.com Subject: Re: Personal Top 5 ever -Reply ooohhh ooops...so it's SONGS eh ????? okay... 1) flamenco sketches - miles davis 2) you don't love me when I cry - laura nyro 3) spring can really hang you up the most - betty carter 4) god must be a boogie man - joni mitchell 5) chain of fools - aretha franklin heh. :) claire np : inside betty carter ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #510 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?