From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #499 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Saturday, December 5 1998 Volume 03 : Number 499 JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to info-jonifest1999@jmdl.com for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Henry Diltz Special ["Kakki" ] Re: Graham luvs Joan ["Kakki" ] Re: Fave Holiday Nusic (NJC) [Susan Chaloner ] Re: joni guitar notes [Howard Wright ] Re: Graham, Shana and Janet Planet (NJC) [Rob Jordan ] Re: Fave Holiday Nusic (NJC) ["Juerg Loeffler" ] Re: Get it together(Holiday Music) -njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Yoko @ Costco (NJC now) [Drewdix@aol.com] (NJC) Favorite Christmas Songs [luvart@snet.net] Re: Yoko @ Costco (NJC now) ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Yoko (NJC) [luvart@snet.net] Re: guitar on Tiger Bones [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Get it together(Holiday Music) -njc ["Janis" ] Re: VG-8's Get your VG-8's and Parkers too [TerryM2442@aol.com] Yoko (NJC) [bg26140@binghamton.edu] Re: Graham, Shana and Janet Planet (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Hejira Skies/Crazy Cries [MHart16164@aol.com] Re: Yoko @ Costco (NJC now) ["John M. Lind" ] Re: Yoko @ Costco (NJC now) [jan gyn ] Re: Yoko @ Costco (NJC now) [catman ] miles davis quote (NJC) [jan gyn ] Yoko Grapefruit [evian ] Re: Why are men so afraid of Yoko? ["John Villasana" ] Re: Yoko (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] Siquomb? and Mingus Tracks # 1, 3, 6, 8, 10 ["Ryan Lantrip" ] Fwd: Re: let-go-my-yoko (njc) [davidmarine@webtv.net (David Marine)] The Complete Poems And Lyrics [davidmarine@webtv.net (David Marine)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:02:52 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Henry Diltz Special I've pulled this off the Jimmy Webb discussion board. Henry Diltz,as most of you know, took the most fantastic photos of Joni and buddies in the 60s. Kakki From the Henry Diltz newsletter .................Our story on The Learning Channel?.............. As some of you may know, Gary, Peter and I have been developing a television special over the last few years. Tentitivly titled "California Dreams," It's the story of the musical renaissance that occured during the singer/songwriter period in Southern California from 1965 to 1975. Gary and I were there to document most of it through photographs and film. Very much like Paris in the twenties, Los Angeles in the Sixties was a magnet for many artists and musicians who came from everywhere to hang out and play their music. And like Paris, LA had a Gertrude Stein. She was Mama Cass, (Cass Elliott) who was the center of the LA musical community. She was always having parties at her house and introducing musicians to each other. Crosby Stills and Nash would not exist had it not been for her introduction of Graham Nash to David Crosby. Our story will include the Doors, Eagles, Joni Mitchell, Dan Fogelberg, Jackson Browne, Jimmy Webb, CSN and many others. We have the interest of The Learning Channel to co-develop this project with us and hope to start production soon. I am telling all of you this because we would like your suggestions as to what you would be interested in seeing in this special. Any ideas on stories, questions we should ask the artists during interviews, How much detail we should go into. Also the trend in music documentaries now (as in the VH-1 shows,) is to find the tragic side or drug taking. What do you think? Our vision is to tell the story as it happened and our experience was a very happy time that was full of discovery. Thanks and we hope to hear from you soon. Kind Regards, Henry & Peter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:16:59 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Graham luvs Joan Scott wrote: > Every time Nash has mentioned Joni in print or on video it's >apparent that he *is* a big fan. The man knows how to spot talent, having >collaborated with some of the biggest names in contemporary music. How >wonderful that he would confirm his admiration for Joni to you, and also be >friendly and approachable at the same time. Yesterday I was so dizzy was meeting him unexpectedly that I feel like I did not adequately describe how amazing it was for me to hear him so instantaneously and emphatically express his feelings for Joni. I mean, I was literally just someone on the street to him, yet he was immediately quite passionate and very clear how he felt about her, like he wants everyone on earth to know. It was really something and just awed me. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 01:02:27 -0800 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: Fave Holiday Nusic (NJC) Kakki wrote: > > I can't help it - through all time my favorite Christmas song is... "The > Christmas Song" Kakki love! That is just too sensible :~) So, of course, it can't be my favourite Mine is: Zamfir: The Lonely Shepard Susan L.A. Honey McBabe-sucking on a cherry candy-cane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:15:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Howard Wright Subject: Re: joni guitar notes Thanks for the enlightening post on the VG8 Randy! From: Randy Remote > ... the Roland VG-8 system she uses requires a 'hex' > pickup (we already knew she was a sorcerer), which picks up each string > individually, allowing each string to be processed independently. I was wondering about this - on "Lead Balloon" the distorted sound she gets sounds very much like each string is being "fuzzed" independently, then added with the others at the end. This way you get to hear the individual pitches quite clearly, so you can play those "weird chords" without it sounding incredibly muddy. Try this on regular electric guitar with distortion, and you end up with a gooey mess! > I heard someone say that Joni's new guitar tone is muddy sounding. > I would describe it as lush. The last song on TTT, "Tiger Bones", is > simply Joni's guitar part from the TTT song. Notice the stereo > separation, the bass strings on the left, and the treble strings on the > right. This would not be possible with a regular guitar. It's just one >guitar, but it sure sounds full. Yes - you're right about this. I think it's a pretty key feature of the TTT sound. I think all the tracks that use a clean VG8 guitar sound have the strings panned quite widely, with bass on the left, and treble on the right. It does give a much stronger guitar sound. I guess this is what Joni was looking for when she tried overdubbing her guitar parts 20 times on Chalk Mark? She said she was looking for a thicker/fuller sound. With the VG8, she can do this very nicely. MDESTE1 wrote: >the concert >producers ALWAYS will provide a grand piano, the dulcimer wont hurt her >back sitting on her lap, and roadies dont cost an arm and a leg etc etc. >My bottom line is she is such a marvelous pianist and dulcimer player >that it would be so wonderful if she didnt abandon the acoustic >instruments entirely during her shows. The thing with the piano, I believe, is that she is simply out of practice. She has said so at least a couple of times in interviews in the last few years. I think she reached a peak with her piano playing around the times of "For The Roses". Since then, she has used it less and less. For the last 4 or 5 albums I think she has usually included just one piano/keyboard track (Here's To You, Not To Blame, Two Grey Rooms, Chinese Cafe). On Chalk Mark there were more keyboard tracks I guess, but maybe that's also Larry's and Peter Gabriel's contributions? In terms of guitars, though, I really hope she still brings out the acoustic on occasions. The VG8 offers a lot of options, but it will never get that beautiful fingernails on metal strings sound ... I still think "Crazy Cries" sounds better on acoustic! Howard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:44:35 +0000 From: Rob Jordan Subject: Re: Graham, Shana and Janet Planet (NJC) Kakki, friend of the stars, a Hedda Hopper for '90s reported: >He answered back "Hey!" like he'd known me all his life! I told him >how happy I was to see him appearing, blah, blah, and then I closed with >"I'm a really big fan of Joni Mitchell." Without missing one nanosecond of >a beat, he answered back very heartily "Well, I'm a really big fan of Joni >Mitchell, too!" Good for you! I half expected to hear that Mrs. Nash wupped you upside the head with her handbag after this remark ;-) >She said that Shana and her band Caledonia almost only perform exclusively >in the San Francisco Bay area because the band are working musicians who >only get paid decently there. I didn't know Shana's band is called Caledonia. She must have a soft spot for her Daddy, as he had an obsession with Caledonia as the mythical home of the soul that suffuses his remarkable blend of blues/celtic music. In a Richie Yorke biography of Van, there's a sweet photo of Van and the Caledonia Soul Orchestra on stage with a four year old Shana tottering about in front of them. I don't have a copy, it's long out of print, but I used to have this book on almost permanent loan from the library years ago. Kakki, I'm coming over to hang out with you and your esteemed friends! Better still, could you host a Joni fest and invite them all over? Joni, Graham, Janet, Shana, Van, Jimmy and Brian. I'm sure it would be a nice get-together for them too! Rob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:02:00 +0000 (GMT) From: Howard Wright Subject: guitar on Tiger Bones From: TerryM2442@aol.com >isn't it great to really be >able to study Joni's guitar playing on that track? There's one part that >I'm trying to figure out if she's playing it exactly like TTT or if she >made some changes. In the vocals, it would be when she sings, "I'm a >runaway from the...etc." Is the guitar the same here as in Tiger Bones? Terry, I know just the bit you mean! I tried worked out the guitar to TTT from the KCRW, pre-release tape. When I bought the album and listened to Tiger Bones, I too stopped at that little section just before "Boring, the old man is snoring" to hear just what was going on. I think the guitar *is* the same on Tiger Bones and TTT. The details are exactly alike throughout the whole piece, so I don't think there's any way that one or two bars could be different. On TTT it gets a little harder to hear at this point just because of the vocals and keyboard etc, so when you hear the guitar track on its own you sometimes hear extra little features that are usually masked. It's a great way to appreciate Joni's guitar technique. Free flowing rhythms, dynamics, and that unique "brush stroke" style of finger picking - - kind of half way between picking and strumming. Love it! Howard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:04:19 +0100 From: "Juerg Loeffler" Subject: Re: Fave Holiday Nusic (NJC) >I can't help it - through all time my favorite Christmas song is... "The >Christmas Song" Seconded. "The Christmas Song" is just beautiful: "Although it's been said, many times, many years...." is a heartblower. For me, Sinatra is THE voice for that kind of stuff. His Capitol recordings of the mid-50's are superb. All time favorite is "Only the Lonely" (1957). I don't like much what came later though. - - Juerg - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 08:35:53 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Get it together(Holiday Music) -njc Wally Kairuz wrote: > ->> > > > However, my all-time favorite carol is In the Bleak Mid-winter. There is a new version on Shawn Colvin's new Christmas cd and it is quite good. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 06:33:03 -0800 From: Travis Moser Subject: Re: Yoko @ Costco (NJC now) Ellen F. Fitzgerald wrote: > > Right on Jan! > > I have to ask: Why are men so afraid of Yoko? And isn't it entirely > emasculating to question a man's choice of partner, when he obviously seemed > happy, and charge her with the ruination of his soul? > > Ellen From interviews with John I got the impression that Yoko was the salvation of his soul. He also said repeatedly that she really was not the reason for the break up of the Beatles. I guess some myths just don't want to die. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 06:35:15 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Yoko (NJC) Evian writes ... >wondering if there are any >Yoko fans out there. So, I was just wondering if anyone else >likes her, or am I alone? A little while back, I think you confessed that you had several albums in your collections that would make folks "roll their eyes". Yoko would be one of 'em for me -- so you're alone, at least for now ... Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:38:48 EST From: Drewdix@aol.com Subject: Re: Yoko @ Costco (NJC now) In a message dated 98-12-04 00:48:26 EST, you write: << Why are men so afraid of Yoko? >> Careful, Ellen. Just because I don't like Yoko's 1. Music 2. Poetry 3. Personality (as portrayed through the media and writings-I don't know her) doesn't mean that I am afraid of her. That's ridiculous, and an out-of-line thing to post here, I believe. I'm glad John was happy, and I'm still disappointed at the Beatles breaking up when they did, and the bumper sticker is a toungue-in-cheek way for me to find a phony scapegoat. The Beatles would have split without Yoko, and this is just a non p.c. expression of frustration-- if it offends you, I'm sorry. - --Drew No Fear Happy to be a Man I Love Women ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 09:45:17 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: (NJC) Favorite Christmas Songs Hi All - Since most everyone is mentioning favorite Christmas music, here's mine: Tchaikowsky's "The Nutcracker" . When I was 4 yrs old my mother & father gave me Tchaikowsky's "The Nutcracker, Op. 71 - the complete ballet as performed by the Utah Symphony Orch. - Conducted by Maurice Abravanel. A 2 LP set! As a little child I was mesmerized by this music - I would dance and pretend I was conducting the symphony. This music gives me such wonderful memories. Buryere ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 06:55:40 PST From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Yoko @ Costco (NJC now) Drew writes ... >I'm glad John was happy, and I'm still disappointed at the Beatles breaking up >when they did, and the bumper sticker is a toungue-in-cheek way for me to find >a phony scapegoat. > The Beatles would have split without Yoko, and this is just a non p.c. >expression of frustration Thanks Drew -- part of the reason I found that bumper sticker amusing had much more to do with your observations that any fear that I have of Yoko, or any other woman (okay, Grace Jones scares me, but just a little). I was afraid that I was going to have to join a group therapy session and address my hidden fears, created without my knowledge by the off-chance of my genetic composition -- which inherently makes me part of the misogynist dominance heirarchy. Thank god it was just a false alarm ... ;-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:05:32 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: Yoko (NJC) At 06:35 AM 12/4/98 PST, you wrote: > >Evian writes ... > >>wondering if there are any >>Yoko fans out there. So, I was just wondering if anyone else >>likes her, or am I alone? > Just some thoughts ... Well, I do own one LP with Yoko on it. It's The Plastic Ono Band - Live in Toronto 1969. It's got some good stuff on one side (Blue Suede Shoes, Money, Cold Turkey, Give Peace a Chance, ...) THE OTHER SIDE ... is all Yoko ... with titile's "Don't Worry Kyoko (mummy's only looking for her hand in the snow) and John, John (let's hope for peace) Some good musicians too ... Eric Clapton, Klaus Voorman and Alan White. Did anyone ever see Yoko sing back then? Freaky and funny. Also on this LP is a quote: "Being born in Scotland carries with it certain responsibilities" - Derek Taylor. Anyone care to explain why this is on the LP cover? After recently seeing a documentary on Andy Warhol, I can draw some parallels between Andy and Yoko .... interesting. Just me, Buryere ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:25:05 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: guitar on Tiger Bones In a message dated 12/4/98 6:05:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, haw@ph.ed.ac.uk writes: << Terry, I know just the bit you mean! I tried worked out the guitar to TTT from the KCRW, pre-release tape. When I bought the album and listened to Tiger Bones, I too stopped at that little section just before "Boring, the old man is snoring" to hear just what was going on. I think the guitar *is* the same on Tiger Bones and TTT. >> Howard, Then it's really incredible that she came up with that little guitar part, as it works so oppositely (is that a word?) with the vocal. I mean, have you tried to sing along on Bones at that point? I can't find the right notes! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:52:09 -0600 From: "Janis" Subject: Re: Get it together(Holiday Music) -njc I must say, I enjoy the version of LITTLE DRUMMER BOY done by David Bowie and Bing Crosby. Always warms my hearts. Great harmony between them! Warm regards, Janis :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:12:17 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: VG-8's Get your VG-8's and Parkers too In a message dated 12/3/98 11:31:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << Are you coming to LA with the Kakki Van Gogh Namm Posse? I can try to get more tickets to the convention if you would like to join us? The VG-8 has been reduced in price now to $1,695 retail, which is almost a 50% reduction in price. Street price should be about $1,300 with the pick up. >> Michael, So let me get this straight. Parkers come as acoustics or electric, but you think Joni plays the electric, right? That was my impression. Is the acoustic lighter, though? Wouldn't "hearing" the acoustic interfere with her playing? Also, would it matter WHAT kind of guitar she used, sound-wise? Enquiring minds and all. I WISH I could go to LA, but it's just not in the cards for now. Thanks for the tix offer, though. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:33:46 -0500 (EST) From: bg26140@binghamton.edu Subject: Yoko (NJC) Evian, I have enjoyed what I've heard of Miss Ono. I have one of her more recent music efforts, "Rising". It's actually an excellent album. The album is backed up by her son's band Ima. I haven't heard much of her earlier work, although I've always wanted to... just to see what all the critics were bitching about! Eric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:01:26 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Graham, Shana and Janet Planet (NJC) Rob, Thanks for the always great Van details. You wrote: >Good for you! I half expected to hear that Mrs. Nash wupped you upside the >head with her handbag after this remark ;-) Actually I felt a funny hesitancy to bring up Joni at all in front of his wife, like it would be somehow rude. But then I thought "oh I can't walk away without saying something about her". Somehow I have a feeling she is used to it and very understanding. Or maybe he does not mind getting wupped each time! ;-) >Kakki, I'm coming over to hang out with you and your esteemed friends! >Better still, could you host a Joni fest and invite them all over? Joni, >Graham, Janet, Shana, Van, Jimmy and Brian. I'm sure it would be a nice >get-together for them too! When I first read this it had me falling over giggling for some reason. I suddenly started envisioning some hilarious potential scenarios but I'm not EVEN going to go there on the list! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:56:12 EST From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira Skies/Crazy Cries In a message dated 98-12-03 09:54:47 EST, dgrowe wrote: << This morning the sky was black and white. Soft, long clouds were slung low on the horizon, and the sun was just peeking through enough to add a bit of blue and orange light. A 'Hejira' sky... >> Great story Don! I love this type of anecdote--we all walk through life thinking somehow that our addiction, attraction, affinity to/with Joni is unusual--not mainstream and that there are few like us. (It's true but...) It's wonderful when we connect with a kindred spirit. Kinda like listers, huh?????? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 13:18:11 -0500 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Re: Yoko @ Costco (NJC now) Jan wrote: >There should be Japanese bumper stickers, or bumper stickers from the >60s NYC avante garde art scene, saying "Still pissed at Lennon"... >I'm no Yoko fan (although I like some of her visual art), but I >sort of remember reading, in that 'Day in the Life' Beatles bio, >that the breakup had maybe more to do with Lennon and McCarthy's >disillusionment with one another. The group had been headed that way since the White Album sessions when Ringo quit only to be convinced by the other three to stay. I'm an amature Yoko fan but it's still disheartening to constantly hear so many people bitching about how she's got no talent or "Anybody can scream into a microphone". It's especially annoying when it comes from some one who obviously has the taste and insight to appreciate someone as nonmain-stream as Joni. Almost everyone I've ever confronted about not likeing Yoko's music has fessed up that they've never even heard it. Great qualifications for judgeing someone's work, eh? John~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:25:34 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Yoko @ Costco (NJC now) I read that at the time, there was a bit of racism wedded to the overt misogyny in the Yoko backlash. Ultimately, though, John found happiness with Yoko. And the Beatles, as a group, were totally worn smooth at that time. Yoko or not, they would have broken up, and rightfully so. - -jan >I have to ask: Why are men so afraid of Yoko? And isn't it entirely >emasculating to question a man's choice of partner, when he obviously seemed >happy, and charge her with the ruination of his soul? > >Ellen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 18:27:37 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Yoko @ Costco (NJC now) Yoko is beautiful and has the most lovely sweet singing voice. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:40:35 -0800 From: jan gyn Subject: miles davis quote (NJC) I got this from the Miles Davis list. I remember talk here of hating Xmas music (I do), and I'm going to share this marvelous quote at the bicoastal xmas family get together. - -jan >--DeVito >PS - My all-time favorite Miles quote: "Family ties are a lot of bullshit. >That's what's fucking up this world. Sitting down at tea and all that shit. It >doesn't go that way. In the first place, who wants to eat that much?" > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 14:11:23 -0600 From: evian Subject: Yoko Grapefruit hey y'all, Since we are still on the Yoko thread, does anyone know where I can get my hands on a copy of her book "Grapefruit: A Book of Instructions"? There are a few snippets from it in the liner notes to "Walking on Thin Ice", and I have to get my hands on it! Thanx, Evian NP: what else -- "walking on thin Ice" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:45:35 -0600 From: "John Villasana" Subject: Re: Why are men so afraid of Yoko? Ellen said... "Why are men so afraid of Yoko?" I don't ever remember anyone saying that they were afraid of Yoko, but if there is some truth to this stereotype I (as a man who is somewhat repulsed by her) would say that it amounts to a reasonable responce to the emasculization of your hero. I doubt that very many people know the real story of John and Yoko. But here are a few of the factoids that strike me as unnatractive. *She's a pretty poor artist riding on the coatails of a genius. *She had a suffocating presense during the Beatles last few years. (lots of us men really love the Beatles, and hated to see something so great destroyed by something so petty) *What was she doing in the studio anyway? *This image is exascerbated by her unfriendly image. She doesn't appear to be very happy. I think that most people's gut reaction to her personality is negative. *All of a sudden she's performing on equal time with John. This goes agains't some basic American values about pulling your own weight in this world and succeeding on your own merits. To make matters worse, she isn't even a mediocre musician/artists. She's downright horrible. *In light of all this, Lennons worshipful relationship with her is kind of pathetic. It makes some males wonder if his artistic decline is a result of some sick parasitic relationship. *Their relationship reflects similar relationships that occur in our own lives. Most guys have had some very dear friends become seduced and apparently metamorphisized by a sick relationship. It's a painful scene to watch. If you are female and you can't relate to this, imagine your best friend falling in love with a beater, and being in complete denial about it. It's just sad. I say all this, again, without any real knowledge of John and Yoko. But these are my gut feelings. And most of us would agree that gut instincts are ussually right on some level. So we trust them. I hope this is helpful information for you. John San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:02:54 EST From: Wolfebite@aol.com Subject: let-go-my-yoko (njc) dear list i've read only sporadically this discussion (read: bashing) of yoko with a queasy anger. i'm not a beatles fan per se- and not a worshiper of john lennon (i reserve that for joni)- but as long as i've known had any knowledge of John & Yoko- most information that i've received has been reinforced with some kind of yoko bashing. Maybe that's why I like her. in defense of yoko- she's more than a mediocre artist. she's quite good! but she's not a pop star. The plastic ono band work and her later music is mostly, IMO, a side project to her visual and performance work with the fluxus movement- sound forays for her conceptual work. I'll admit that her association with John lennon brought her into a wider music sphere; one that she isn't geared towards- and that much of her later work is as sappy as John's- and probably just big mistakes driven my one forceful ego. But the fact that her songs & sounds linger with me speaks to her understand of music- and I think that's talent. Her performance works and conceptual sculptures are quite beautiful- old and new. She is an important voice in the post WWII japanese art scene (artists pushing at the high degree of ceremonial decorum and emotional calcification after the social upheavals wrought by WWII)- and an important member of the international fluxus movement (a highly intelligent and at times whimsical conceptually- based art circle). The fact that she made a name for herself is a credit to her drive- both the Japanese & the Euro/NYC modernist art movements are very male oriented- even in their more progressive aspects. It interests me that one of the first butoh performance/happenings included the killing of live animals on stage- all to a beatles soundtrack. I've seen the videos of the performance and it's viscerally beautiful and horrible- an important key to understanding post war response to society by japanese artist. my understanding of certain contemporary japanese artist has shown common themes of intense and focused repetition, often to the level of extreme endurance, isolation, emotional repression & deprivation. Artist like Hijikawa and all the butoh dance decendence (the dance of darkness- extreme discipline & endurance), Kusama & Mori (exploring pathelogical depths of repetition and glossy banality), Kurasawa (seduction and horror of dreams) and Ono (primal scream therapist par excellence). Yoko fits into this thinking and explores this still in her work. But I would say that since she's a woman exploring these themes (One who happened to have 'stole' the Wests' most popular mythic pop hero) makes her seem just plain horrible in many peoples view. I'm sure she's aware of that perception and plays on it. It would fit, it seems, into her view of herself as artist as critic. (can you think of another artist who does the same???? hint hint hint??? sounds like yoni, sounds like pickle?) The nails are already nailed in on her coffin. No matter what she says or does in tribute or reconciliation about her life with john lennon, it is always going to be seen as pandering for more money or self-promotion. There is no respect for her offered and why in the hell should she give it back. yeah- so maybe she's a bitch! a strong, talented bitch! good for her. I cannot believe that she's at fault for the breakup of the beatles. it's tooooo simplistic. she may have been a catalyst to push along an already stagnate and crumbling relationship- she may have been john's mouthpiece- saying those things he didn't have the guts to say? it's all conjecture. John was probably most enrapt by her- i think she was too about him. i think they are intellectual equals- something that john wasn't going to find in paul, george or ringo- and that can be as seductive as all get-out to find someone that challenges, amazes, confronts and sparks! And now- at age 60??!! she's still growling and howling out dark, brooding, troubling pieces. I love rising mixes!! by the by- i did run into yoko one afternoon in new york. I was looking at some gloves and reached for them just as someone else did the same. we both had our hands on the same gloves then I looked up. i recognized her immediately & smiled, she smiled back (a very sweet smile i might add), i let go of the gloves and she walked up to the register and bought them. damn her- she stoled my gloves!!! cheers to you yoko- for making so many people itch and chafe. respectfully submitted. doug ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 16:15:31 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Discovery Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 22:56:39 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Today, I have been compiling a Joni tape for my very dear friend (and new JMDL member) Janis, and in the process finally hearing some of the "earlier joni" songs for the first time. During my time here among you, I have made mental notes of certain songs from joni's first 10 yrs as a recording artist that have provoked some excellent discussion. I have still to add STAS, Clouds, FTR and DJRD from the 68-79 era to my collection, so the following track-listing was culled from LOTC, Blue, C&S, HOSL and Hejira...... Side One : MORNING MORGANTOWN BIG YELLOW TAXI WOODSTOCK RAINY NIGHT HOUSE THE CIRCLE GAME LITTLE GREEN THE LAST TIME I SAW RICHARD THIS FLIGHT TONIGHT CAREY A CASE OF YOU HELP ME FREE MAN IN PARIS Side Two : RAISED ON ROBBERY JUST LIKE THIS TRAIN IN FRANCE THEY KISS ON MAIN STREET EDITH AND THE KINGPIN THE HISSING OF SUMMER LAWNS SHADOWS AND LIGHT HEJIRA A STRANGE BOY AMELIA REFUGE OF THE ROADS Having listened to these songs in this order, I am overwhelmed by both the quality of the work and how - in chronological order - joni's music and lyrical style evolve so subtlely yet purposefully from album to album..... I must confess I am very smitten by the songs from Hejira in particular - - the title track and Refuge Of The Roads are exquisite beyond description. I'd be interested in any comments regarding my selections, and what effect hearing these songs in the above order has on you... Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:50:05 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Yoko (NJC) Evian wrote, of Yoko: > So, I was just wondering if anyone else likes her, or am I alone? I don't know much of Yoko's music (or art), but I have tremendous respect for the woman, although I cannot explain exactly why. Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 20:16:45 CST From: "Ryan Lantrip" Subject: Siquomb? and Mingus Tracks # 1, 3, 6, 8, 10 >Siquomb, isn't she? Ok, first of all what is "Siquomb"?? And at jm.com in the discography of the Mingus album by certain tracks it says RAP. I don't have Mingus so does that mean she raps on it, or some sort of jazz-esque scat thing? or does it stand for something? Thanks, the always curious RL ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 18:34:12 -0800 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: Siquomb? and Mingus Tracks # 1, 3, 6, 8, 10 Ryan Lantrip wrote: > > >Siquomb, isn't she? > > Ok, first of all what is "Siquomb"?? > > And at jm.com in the discography of the Mingus album by certain tracks > it says RAP. I don't have Mingus so does that mean she raps on it, or > some sort of jazz-esque scat thing? or does it stand for something? > > Thanks, > the always curious RL I'll let somebody else take the SIQUOMB bit (it's an acronym for She is Queen undisputed of mind beauty - there's more to it than that). I think rap means talk or conversation in the context of the Mingus LP. It refers to snippets of Charles Mingus talking, sometimes with other people, sometimes not. He describes the kind of funeral he would like to have and makes comments on luck and life & other topics. Once upon a time the word 'rap' was a slang term for carrying on a converstation. If you knew that already you can give me a cyber slap. I'm tough. I can take it. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 01:07:24 -0800 (PST) From: Bernadette Gallagher Subject: Re: Beware of Hitchers? NAH... (NJC) - ---------- > In a message dated 03/12/98 00:11:37, bern.gallagher@cwix.com writes: > > << One last story about a fiend [sic] of mine who was hitching in California > >> > Neil Young can count himself lucky to be alive!! Oh, baloney. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 01:19:58 -0800 (PST) From: Bernadette Gallagher Subject: Get it together(Holiday Music) > > > > So what is everyone's favorite Christmas record/CD/tape? Mine > > > >would be either this one or 'A Charlie Brown Christmas'... > > > > That, Joan Baez's Noel, and Striesand's Christmas album. > ... and Manhattan Transfer's Christmas album, Ella Fitzgerald's and > Wynton Marsalis'. Jane Siberry's Child and the Waitresses' Christmas Song. I realize that's just a song, but what the hell. "singin' songs of joy and peace" B.- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 02:03:04 -0800 (PST) From: Bernadette Gallagher Subject: Sagittarius - NJC A line from my horoscope for all of us JMDL Sag's: "Even sunny Sagittarians can get into a bad mood once in a while" :) "Born with the moon in cancer" B.- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 23:28:27 -0800 (PST) From: davidmarine@webtv.net (David Marine) Subject: Fwd: Re: let-go-my-yoko (njc) - --WebTV-Mail-1699354260-2148 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit - --WebTV-Mail-1699354260-2148 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhQ74uENYbupe+kzWJTn8Q0fz3yw1wIVAKQ06lEMTXZaF1S6v3nz7L2eIzCG From: davidmarine@webtv.net (David Marine) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 23:27:19 -0800 (PST) To: Wolfebite@aol.com Subject: Re: let-go-my-yoko (njc) Message-ID: <13002-3668E057-5089@mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Wolfebite@aol.com's message of Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:02:54 EST Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) thanks, doug, for your straightforward and rational defense of yoko. i really loved lennon and i really like yoko, too. i was surprised by all the negative comments over the last few days, especially considering that so many of them came from such thoughtful listers. i think you hit on it when you suggested that it had to do with the powerful cult status of Lennon. Joseph Campbell could have written a book about her. david - --WebTV-Mail-1699354260-2148-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 23:38:41 -0800 (PST) From: davidmarine@webtv.net (David Marine) Subject: The Complete Poems And Lyrics hi list! sorry to barge in after lurking so long, but the yoko thing got me going and now that i'm here i have a question. i'm about to purchase a few of the Joni books for Christmas, and i'm wondering if Howard or Wally or anyone knows if a new edition (corrected, maybe even expanded?) has been printed? i'm gonna buy the books either way but if i know there's a new edition out there i'll take the time to look for it. thanks, david ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #499 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?