From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest)
To: joni-digest@smoe.org
Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #462
Reply-To: joni@smoe.org
Sender: les@jmdl.com
Errors-To: les@jmdl.com
Precedence: bulk
JMDL Digest Thursday, November 5 1998 Volume 03 : Number 462
The Joni Tour Pages:
http://www.jonimitchell.com/Tour98.html
http://www.jmdl.com/articles/tour98.htm
-------
Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these
addresses:
-Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com
-NewYork@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com
-------
JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank
message to info-jonifest1999@jmdl.com for more info.
-------
The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available
now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details.
-------
The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at
http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio,
original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more.
-------
The JMDL website can be found at and contains
interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more.
==========
TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
--------
NYC & SYRACUSE & Bye Bye ["Patricia O'Connor" ]
NJC: lefty poll [Howard Wright ]
Re: This Flight Tonight ["M & C Urbanski" ]
Re: lefty poll ["M & C Urbanski" ]
Re: NJC: Latest from a dreamer [TerryM2442@aol.com]
This Flight Tonight [TerryM2442@aol.com]
Re: lefty/righty poll (NJC) ["Ken (Slarty)" ]
Re: lefty/righty...a new poll ["John M. Lind" ]
Re: lefty/righty...a new poll (njc) ["John M. Lind" ]
Re: lefty/righty...a new poll(NJC) ["John M. Lind" ]
Re: Musings on TTT and Joni's next album [TerryM2442@aol.com]
Re: JMDL Digest V3 #461 ["Kim Korman Brown" ]
You know you're a Joni addict when ... [Steve Dulson ]
RE: The Maltese Falcon NJC [Howard Motyl ]
RE: You know you are addicted to Joni when . . . [Howard Motyl ]
educating marieve... [RickieLee1@aol.com]
Re: Lame and Infuriating is Right... ["John M. Lind" ]
Joni on CBC [Bounced Message ]
Re: educating marieve... ["Don Rowe" ]
NJC: Right handed [Bounced Message ]
Crossing Musical Boundaries [Bounced Message ]
Re: educating marieve... [Phyliss Ward ]
Re: NJC: Latest from a dreamer [Rob Jordan ]
Re: educating marieve... [PMcfad@aol.com]
Re: parched, the jmdl finds a little dew on a dawn-blooming cactus blossom (jc) [LRFye]
Re: Discovering DJRD (NJC, really) [LRFye@aol.com]
NJC: JMDL PARTIES & GET TOGETHERS IN NY/BOSTON AREAS [Chilihead2@aol.com]
Re: NJC: Latest from a dreamer [TerryM2442@aol.com]
Re: educating marieve... ["Kakki" ]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 03:24:08 -0500
From: "Patricia O'Connor"
Subject: NYC & SYRACUSE & Bye Bye
I attended the shows in Syracuse and New York City. They were wonderful,
Joni was in fine voice, the band couldn't have been better. I had been
worried before each concert that I would be distracted by noise from those
who were there only to see Dylan, I knew that I could ask someone to be
quiet in a polite way once, but that inevitably my second request would be
in language that would make Joni's chastisement of the Indianapolis hecklers
seem very tame and that the concert would then be ruined for me by my own
anger.
This worry proved to be unfounded. At my fine seat (Thanks Jill) at the
Garden I was surrounded by a mix of rabid Joni fans and very polite
non-fans. In Syracuse the audience was wildly appreciative and screaming
for more. Although the setlist was the same for each concert, although
the acoustics are better in the Garden than in the all-concrete Syracuse War
Memorial, and despite Joni in Syracuse saying "I've picked up a sniffle, got
a little bubble-gum in the horn, but I'm feeling good, feeling good", of the
2 shows Syracuse was superior. The difference was the crowd, Joni seemed
well aware of and grateful for Syracuse's reception.
So now that my already well-fed Joni-jones is satiated, I think it's time
to give it a rest, I think it's time for me to unsubscribe. My 20 months on
this list has been great fun. I've enjoyed listening and talking to you
all. Thank you Les for providing the forum.
I'll miss you guys;
Patty a.k.a POC
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:19:26 +0100
From: M.Russell@iaea.org
Subject: Re: Lame and Infuriating is Right...
On Wed, 04 Nov 1998 09:11:09 -0500 Daniel Parker
wrote:
< > Why do both Joni and Bob change the melodies
< > of their songs both in rhythm and harmony when
< > they play live?
< > My philosophy about music is this: the creation
< > of a piece is a sacred process, after which a solitary
< > entity is created. A "piece" of music. This piece, for
< > better or for worse, is immortalized on the studio album
< > for popular artists like Joni and Bob.
The interesting thing about music is that, unlike a painting or a
sculpture, music is recreated every time it is performed and there is
always the potential to render it more beautifully than ever before. If
you are attending a live performance, you should expect to be (hopefully
pleasantly) surprised, because it will sound different than it has ever
sounded before or will ever sound again, unless it is captured on a
recording. Many things affect the final product, such as the acoustics
of the environment, the technical ability of the performer(s) as well as
their level of attention to the musical now, the receptivity of the
audience, etc. Joni is not only a great composer quietly at home, but
also creates during her performances, allowing her melodic imagination
free reign. In Detroit, I found myself on several occasions feeling
totally wowed by Joni's rephrasing of a melodic line. It was wonderful!
Marian
Vienna
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 19:44:16 +1100
From: "Russell George"
Subject: Fantastic TTT review plus exposure for Joni
Hi all,
I was turning the pages of a very widely read TV/Radio/Music guide here in
Melbourne, Australia on the train home from work this afternoon, only to be
greeted by an enlarged picture of the TTT cover on the album reviews page! I
let out an involuntary groan of pleasure, then serupticiously looked around
to see if it had been noticed - forturnately not!
Here is the review:
Strange, metallic, atmospheric sounds assail the ears at the start of Joni's
new album. Then the cool, swinging rhythms of drummer Brian Blade and
bassist Larry Klein (her ex-husband) kick in, tempered by the lilting, airy
melodies of Wayne Shorter's soprano sax. Harlem In Havana showcases
Mitchell's electronically-enhanced "guitar orchestra" for openers, but the
striking thing about this recording is not so much Joni's new toy as the
absolute assurance of the music. Its glorious tonal textures and lyrical
pictures are created with a painter's vision. It's an extraordinary
achievement for someone who had all but turned her back on music after
1994's Turbulent Indigo to concentrate on impressive canvasses such as those
adorning the CD sleeve. Mitchell credits jazzman Brian Blade for rekindling
her musical fire and the recording (at her home studio) evolved out of
semi-improvised instrumental sessions with the above, plus guitarist Greg
Leisz on pedal steel. The album's no-holds-barred title track, with its
allusions to William Blake's Tyger Tyger, addresses that career crossroads:
"I'm a runaway from the record biz/From the hoods on the hood/And the whiny
white kids/Boring!" The music industry's - and her peers' - production-line
mentality cops a broadside too: "Every song just a one-night stand/Formula
music, girly guile/Genuine junkfood for juveniles." The vagaries of love
are explored eloquently in ballads like The Crazy Cries Of Love (my
favourite) and the yearning Man From Mars. The CD's two most personal songs
are deeply affecting and rank among Mitchell's best. On Stay In Touch, she
negotiates the emotional minefield of her much-publicised reunion with
adopted-out daughter Kilauren, while the troubled relationship with her own
mother is explored on Facelift. She closes with a delightful rendition of
the oldie Here's To You and a solo instrumental variation on the title
track's guitar part. I keep returning to this CD, discovering new delights.
That's the difference between gourmet fare and junkfood: if you want
takeaway, don't bother. Taming The Tiger is a banquet for the senses.
All I can say is WOW! The newspaper is one of the two most popular in our
city of about 3 million. Joni is even less well-known here than in America,
so for her to receive this kind of exposure is a welcome event.
Cheers,
Russell
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:57:16 +0100
From: M.Russell@iaea.org
Subject: Request for input on cookbook format (NJC)
I am still trying to decide how to process the JMDL recipes. At first I
thought I should put them into my MasterCook II software. If I do this,
I could print out the recipes myself on A4-sized paper. This paper size
is a little longer than the USA standard 8 1/2 x 11 inch paper, which
will be an advantage because there should be plenty of room for the
bios. Alternatively, I can put the recipes into MS Word and send it to
someone in the USA for further formatting, printing and binding.
The MasterCook II recipe software formats everything nicely, and if I
use this software I will not have to make decisions about how to format
the recipes. If I do the printing using this software, I have some nice
plastic page holders into which I could insert the pages and the pages
could then be inserted into a ring binder. It would be like a regular
book with a recipe on the front and back of each page. The plastic
covers for the pages would protect them from splattering in the kitchen,
which might be nice. What do you all think about this?
Personally I would like the final product to be made beautiful somehow -
with some artwork and a handmade cover. Can a store-bought ring binder
be made more beautiful by applying a handmade, personalized for Joni
cover? Are there any volunteers to take care of these details?
Does anyone have any ideas or thoughts?
Marian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 10:21:49 +0100
From: "Winfried Hühn"
Subject: Dylan fans smoking pot :-)
Marylin wrote:
> Has anyone who has gone to any of these concerts observed that Dylan fans
> smoke 95% more pot than Joni Fans? At least that's the way it was in
> Toronto!
>
There is one very simple explanation for this phenomenon: Joni fans
simply don't need any additional drugs , because they get high on seeing
and hearing Joni perform by herself!
Contrarily, even as a Dylan fan, one needs to get stoned in order to
make his voice more tolerable to the human ear!
Winfried,
not at all surprised :-)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 05:54:04 -0800
From: stevephoto@mindspring.com
Subject: video tape recomendations (njc)
After many years of working in the video industry in duplication and
broadcast, and after many hours of videotaping at home I have concluded that
all video tape is basically the same. As long as you get a brand name tape
(TDK,Sony,Maxell, etc)
you will be ok. Personally, I do not recommend that anyone go out and spend
extra money on "Broadcast master" or even "HG" videotape because the VHS
format IS NOT archival. A recording made on either of these types of tape
formulations will not be significantly better than a recording made on a
standard grade tape. The difference between tape grades is in how many
"dropouts per minute" are found on a sampling of a particular tape
formulation. A few years ago, there were differences between the so called
"HG" and "standard" tape formulations, but that is not really true today.
They just charge more for "HG".
The main factor in the dropout issue is how many times the tape is
played/fast
forwarded/rewound.
What happens is: the plastic reels that the tape is wound onto come in
contact with the other plastic parts of the cassette shell causing two
things to happen:
1) static electricity build up. causing electrical dropouts
2) tiny shreds of plastic come off of both the above mentioned reels and
other parts of the cassette shell. Those shreds of plastic may attach
themselves to the tape surface because of the static charge and then
redeposit themselves onto the rotating head drum. (I apologize for being too
technical)
To summarize: for the best recordings I recommend that everyone us a brand
name tape, record in the "SP" mode and make sure your video and audio heads
are clean.
Also, if you can record on a hi-fi deck, you will get the best sound
possible:
Peace to all,
Joni forever
stevephoto@mindspring.co.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:08:28 +0000 (GMT)
From: Howard Wright
Subject: Musings on TTT and Joni's next album
From: "Don Rowe"
>I'd personally like to hear Joni hook up a nylon-string classical guitar
>(such as a Godin) to the VG-8. This could make a lot of us happy, since
>the resonance of the guitar would still be there, along with those
>endearing "little Joni noises" on the strings and frets that so many of
>us love of TI ... along with the lush synthetics that have endeared many
>listers (myself included) to TTT.
Interesting idea. You could get the same effect by just recording two
tracks - one with an acoustic nylon or steel string guitar, and the other
using the VG8. You could then combine the sounds from both in the final
mix - I don't think you'd have to actually wire up the VG8 to the acoustic
guitar. (Technically, I'm not sure how easy this would be anyway ...)
I don't reckon Joni's guitar style would work quite as well on nylon
strings. The string and "percussion" noises she gets work a lot better
with steel strings, and steel strings sustain nicely - you would get a
drier sound on nylon strings. I've tried playing songs like Crazy Cries of
Love on nylon string guitars, and it's hard work - without the sustain and
the right percussive noises, it doesn't sound the same.
I agree with you - I'd like to hear some of the traditional guitar sound
(acoustic) as well as more VG8 on Joni's next album. I think I'd rather
keep them separate though - use VG8 on some tracks and just acoustic on
others. The orchestrating thing Joni does on Harlem In Havana and Man From
Mars is just great - I really want to hear her explore this a lot more.
She could go on to do even greater things with the VG8. BUT - I don't want
her to stop using acoustic all together. Just one or two tracks with that
Baby Collings would be so great. Crazy Cries of Love or Face Lift could
have worked well on acoustic I think.
Listening back to TTT recently I heard the "mystery drums" again. On the
intro to Stay In Touch I swear I can hear Brian Blade playing drums, very
quietly. You can hear cymbal hits on some of the off beats between Joni's
guitar strums. Anyone else hear this?
Howard
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:26:24 +0000 (GMT)
From: Howard Wright
Subject: NJC: lefty poll
From: some millers
>i'd like to test a hypothesis. me thinks the jmdl likely has a greater
>than average concentration of left handed members. the average
>population has an only one in nine. curious to see how this group is
>comprised. i'll start. i'm a lefty. how about you?
I'm right handed.
Just to get boring and slightly serious for a second ...
If you are genuinely interested in getting a good poll of lefties and
righties from the JMDL, this probably isn't the way to do it. The key is
whether the people that reply are a random sample or not. My guess is that
lefties will be more interested in responding, which will skew the
results.
Hypothetical example:
I want to do a poll to find out how many people on the list are called
Howard (!), so I put the question out and ask for people to mail me.
People who *are* called Howard are almost certain to reply to my poll, so
I get a 100% response from those called Howard. People who aren't called
Howard will (quite rightly!) not be so interested, so I get a handful of
replies from these folk. The result - I get a biased figure because one
party has a stronger interest in replying than the other - the sample of
people who reply is not random.
Another (slightly less silly!) example:
In the recent Zodiac poll it was pointed out after a while that Leos (and
I think Virgos) were strongly represented in the group. When other Leos
and Virgos read this they may well be encouraged to send in their vote
because they have a particular interest in this result. Again, this could
bias the results.
One final, tedious,
I-must-get-a-life-and-stop-posting-stuff-about-statistics-to-the-JMDL
point:
As someone mentioned recently (sorry, I forgot your name - a Biologist I
think?) sorting out the results into what is statistically significant and
what are just random variations is not trivial. For the Zodiac poll, if
there are 22 Leos and only 9 Scorpios, is this significant or not? Without
looking at all the numbers, the answer isn't clear. For the lefty/righty
poll, you would probably need a large difference in percentage of lefties
to show this result was significantly different than the percentage of
lefties in the general population.
Howard
P.S I promise never again to use the words "statistically significant" in
a JMDL post!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:12:57 -0500
From: "M & C Urbanski"
Subject: Re: This Flight Tonight
- ----------
> From: Kakki
> To: Brett Code ; joni@smoe.org
> Subject: Re: This Flight Tonight
> Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 2:11 AM
>
> Brett wrote:
>
> >I've been a member of the list for more than a year, and I can't
remember
> anyone ever talking about 'This Flight Tonight'. Anyone know why?
>
>
> Kakki wrote:
> It is the "fun" song on that album like what "Twisted" is on Court and
> Spark, what "Empty, Try Another" is on DED, what "Ray's Dad's Cadillac"
is
> on NRH, and what "Lead Balloon" is on TTT.
This is one of those traumatic experience songs for me. At 17 I went to
live with my best friend & her family in Arizona. I wanted to stay
forever. Her dad got in legal trouble and I was sent back to Forida
suddenly with out notice...on "this flight tonight"...I cried the whole
fight home while the song played in my head!
Other than that memory I love the song & get real pissed when I hear the
Nazareth version & Joni is not given credit for writing it! (another one
of those Joni addictions!)
Marilyn
I live in a box of paints
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:19:45 -0500
From: "M & C Urbanski"
Subject: Re: lefty poll
- ----------
> From: Howard Wright
> To: Joni@smoe.org
> Subject: NJC: lefty poll
> Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 6:26 AM
>
>
> Howard wrote:
>
> One final, tedious,
> I-must-get-a-life-and-stop-posting-stuff-about-statistics-to-the-JMDL
> point:
>
>
> P.S I promise never again to use the words "statistically significant" in
> a JMDL post!
>
Hey...Hey...Hey...I have to take a statistics class next semester. Do you
tutor?
Marilyn
I live in a box of paints
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:31:23 EST
From: TerryM2442@aol.com
Subject: Re: NJC: Latest from a dreamer
In a message dated 11/5/98 12:04:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com
writes:
<< Last night I drempt that several UFOs were flying past my window. When
the stream subsided, it was suddenly daylight. I was in a rush to
attend a wedding on a bicycle but the bicycle was missing its front
wheel. I was holding the bike by its frame and *walking* it to the
wedding. >>
Meester Haladoo,
Zis new lady een your life, I sink you haf mixed feelings, no? Eezer zat, or
you neet to chire your leemozeen driver more zen a day in adfance.
Dr. SigMondegreen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:42:49 EST
From: TerryM2442@aol.com
Subject: This Flight Tonight
In a message dated 11/5/98 1:29:39 AM Eastern Standard Time,
codeb@duncanmccachen.com writes:
<< I've been a member of the list for more than a year, and I can't remember
anyone ever talking about 'This Flight Tonaight'. Anyone know why? >>
Because we like to save the best for last? Hey, I love this song and just
recently learned to play it. Not being a musical archivist, I'm wondering if
this is one of the earliest songs- not just JM songs- that uses a clip that
sounds like it's from another, older record. You know, the part where the Joni
choir quips in "Goodbye baby, baby goodbye, Oooh ooh love is blind".
Terry
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:04:21 -0500
From: "Ken (Slarty)"
Subject: Re: lefty/righty poll (NJC)
Right handed.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:18:55 -0500
From: "John M. Lind"
Subject: Re: lefty/righty...a new poll
Righty.
John~
NP "Bye-Bye" John Hartford
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:22:31 -0500
From: "John M. Lind"
Subject: Re: lefty/righty...a new poll (njc)
Deb wrote:
>*Please* remember the NJC tag.
>> curious to see how this group is comprised. i'll start.
>> i'm a lefty. how about you?
Sorry. I didn't even catch it.
John~
NP "In France They Kiss On Main Street"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:27:42 -0500
From: "John M. Lind"
Subject: Re: lefty/righty...a new poll(NJC)
Mark Domyancich wrote:
>I'm a Southpaw, but I play the guitar right-handed.
This could be a little spice to the original query. I knew a guy in college
who was right handed but played guitar upside down, ie: a regular standart
tuned right-handed guitar turned over and played left handed. I also have a
frien, Keith-whom I've mentioned before, who is left handed but plays right
handed.
John~
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:58:08 EST
From: TerryM2442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Musings on TTT and Joni's next album
In a message dated 11/5/98 6:11:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, haw@ph.ed.ac.uk
writes:
<< On the
intro to Stay In Touch I swear I can hear Brian Blade playing drums, very
quietly. You can hear cymbal hits on some of the off beats between Joni's
guitar strums. Anyone else hear this?
>>
I'm listening to it on my computer's tiny speakers and don't hear it. I'll
listen in my car later, though. How about the interesting squeaks on the
trumpet on Harlem?
Terry
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:14:46 +500
From: "Kim Korman Brown"
Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V3 #461
Howdy
Not Syndey Greenstreet. Sydney Greenstreet...and Mary Astor.
(Maltese Falcon)
It's interesting to hear all you guys talk about Bonnie Raitt
too. I write columns and music reviews (musicviews.com) and I
wrote a column about Bonnie which is posted there.
My relationship with Joni was so special to me as a teenager that
I could hardly talk about it lest someone who didn't appreciate her
might malign her...(i.e. "Ew I hate how her voice breaks all the
time" as one friend said)
In another email I wrote privately to Brett I mentioned going to
Europe when I was 19 with my best friend Genevieve -- 1974 --
We went to the island of Crete so that we could walk on the sand
of Matala ("that scratchy rock n roll beneath the Matala moon")
where we imagined she might have been. I don't even know if it
was the same place, but we hitchhiked across the island so we
could be there just in case it was. A lot of thumbing travelers
were there and we slept on the beach for a few nights, then went
back to Iraklion, (sp?) the main city on the island. We stayed in
a cheap hotel and met the most amazing bunch of other travelers
both European and American. We had a wonderful time sitting in
the outdoor cafe of this little hotel...sort of a courtyard with
tables, and we sang Joni Mitchell and Laura Nyro songs deep into
the night...it was spontaneous and beautiful -- it was amazing
to run into a group of kindred spirits and you know what they
say, if music be the food of love then play on --
It is amazing to me how the music of one person can cut to the
quick of so many lives. Thanks you guys for your insights
memories and observations.
I have gone many years not talking about Joni Mitchell because
I somehow didn't know anyone who felt the way I did. My friend
Genevieve and I were huge fans back then, I feel some part of my
buried youth re-emerging...isn't it funny, musicians don't get old.
BB King just played in Norfolk VA last night (I missed it) but
the paper said he had the crowd on their feet and did a great job
and the guy is 73 years old.
Did anybody catch "The Blues Brothers 2000" I loved it, especially
the finale scene which featured BB King, Junior Wells, Eric
Clapton, and a bunch of other famous blues musicians...
By the way, does anyone know the details of Laura Nyro's death?
I heard about in passing last year, but didn't hear details. I
went to her website but whoever was managing it never bothered to
go back and explain anything about what happened to her.
Take care y'all.
You know, I am a Yankee by birth but that southern accent rubs off.
Kim :)
ps I think Paprika plains is mindblowing too. I have an old worn
out tape of DJRD which I haven't listened to in ages, but I
wondered if Joni lived in another age if she would have written
classical music...hmmmm...love Amelia too, the version with
Pat Metheny on lead...(which album is that ?, I thought that it
had the lonliest sound...)
.........................................................
"You and I have brains, the others have fluff."
(Winnie the Pooh)
http://futurerealm.com - The HeartThread Resource Page
http://worldcommunity.com - The World Community Network
http://wtne-sales.com - Washington Times National Weekly
National Sales Office
http://musicviews.com Music Reviews by Kim Korman Brown
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:01:42 -0700
From: Steve Dulson
Subject: You know you're a Joni addict when ...
Deb wrote:
>You're so afraid of screwing up the PPV concert that you order and
>tape a Barney movie, just to make sure everything works.
Bwahahahaha! I'm ordering "Primary Colors" tonight!!
##############################################################
Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com
"The Tinker's Own"
http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html
"Southern California Dulcimer Heritage"
http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 10:05:17 -0600
From: Howard Motyl
Subject: RE: The Maltese Falcon NJC
Isn't the phrase "The Stuff dreams are made of" originally from
Shakespeare? Am out of my mind? Theatre majors?
Howard M
NP: NASA TV
"Anytime you have the opportunity to accomplish something
and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth."
Roberto Clemente
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 10:21:25 -0600
From: Howard Motyl
Subject: RE: You know you are addicted to Joni when . . .
You buy other artists albums because Joni sings on them--even though you
may not know the artist or how much she sings on the songs. (Seal,
Hancock, James Taylor (Mud Slide Slim) . . . )
You *always* have at least one Joni CD in the 5 disc player.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:36:56 PST
From: "Don Rowe"
Subject: RE: You know you are addicted to Joni when . . .
A friend, rummaging through your glove compartment for a tape, cries out
in exasperation ... "Don't you have anything other than Joni Mitchell
for chrisssakes?!"
Don Rowe
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:39:27 -0800
From: davina@pacificsw.com (Davina Greenstein)
Subject: Re: NJC Congrats Davina
Thanks Diana and everyone else for the wonderful wishes!
D.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Diana Duncan
To: joni@smoe.org
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 6:55 PM
Subject: NJC Congrats Davina
>Happy, Happy Marriage!
>Hope you have life-long joy!
>Is your new hubby a Joni fan?
>
>Diana
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:50:45 EST
From: Dreamzvill@aol.com
Subject: Re: Righty/Lefty poll (NJC)
Hey everyone!
I'm right-handed, but both of my husbands have been left-handed! (Whaddup
with that?)
Cheers, Susan Crawford
NP: Sound of ocean, wind blowing through field of grass, scrap of meadowlark
song
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:11:22 -0300
From: "wallykai"
Subject: God hates Rolling Stone reviews/Joni Crosses the Street
It does seem like many idiotic critics with an "enfant terrible" complex
never forgive performers whose material takes more than ten minutes to
listen to and review [formatting and spell checking included]. Rolling
Stone is the epitome of inanity when it comes to many things, but its
reviews take the cake: they should win the Pulitzer for shallow-mindedness.
How many albums were we stupid enough to buy because of a Rolling Stone
review? They're all sitting there somewhere, embarrassing us.
It's automatic: if I like someone, RS will dis her/him. I never expect RS to
give Joni more than minimal attention. Actually, I wish RS never paid Joni
ANY attention.
I've been listening to G's World and I find it a bit too abstract. I think
that Joni's tracks are the best connection the CD has with the world of
Gershwin. Her voice is in STUPENDOUS shape. Another thing that I enjoy is
that she has rid her diction of some vowel sound distortions that had been
creeping into her singing lately [especially the vowel in "back" or "bag".
You can see in some of the videos how the middle section of her tongue
protrudes very visibly when she pronounces these vowel sounds.] On G's W,
Joni sounds so much at ease and not a bit like Billie Holiday. Her voice is
veiled, but somehow youthful and not world-weary at all. It's a completely
new voice to me, self-possessed and cool: a very sober voice. I hope she'll
stick to her project of making an album of standards. I also hope she'll
choose not only bluesy, minor key songs, but the "sillier" kind too,
"Someone to watch over me", "I'm old fashioned", and Roberto's specialty: "I
can cook too".
While we're about it: Roberto, what do you say we make a tape of standards
for the list, you at the piano and I at the microphone. I can do Bewitched,
standard lyrics and sassy lyrics too. You choose. [Maybe we can have Susan
LA add MORE sassy lyrics]
WallyK
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:12:17 EST
From: RickieLee1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Lefty/righty poll - NJC
In a message dated 98-11-04 19:47:26 EST, Harpua@revealed.net writes:
<< At 3:26 PM -0800 11/4/98, Brian Gross wrote:
>-like having hot brass ejected from a Gold Cup right back at your face
>-like finding a house ball drilled in the right direction >>
hot brass from a gold cup in your face??? what does that mean? (sounds
awful...)
finding a house ball drilled in the right direction? sorry, i'm lost with
that one too.
hmmmm. curiouser and curiouser...ric
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:46:46 -0600
From: Diana Duncan
Subject: Stay in Touch
At 11:08 AM 11/5/1998 +0000, Howard Wright wrote:
>Listening back to TTT recently I heard the "mystery drums" again. On the
>intro to Stay In Touch I swear I can hear Brian Blade playing drums, very
>quietly. You can hear cymbal hits on some of the off beats between Joni's
>guitar strums. Anyone else hear this?
Howard,
This is really weird cause yesterday I tried tuning my bass and treble
every which way cause I heard this too and I couldn't decided what it was..
It sounded like a really soft cymbal brush but the tempo is different. It
drove me crazy!!!! My stereo is not top of the line so I'm sure someone
else can isolate this on their system. So tell us about this.
Diana, whose glad to know she's not hearing things that aren't there.. again.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:02:50 EST
From: RickieLee1@aol.com
Subject: educating marieve...
hello listers: i have a friend who is an extraordinary woman, for many
reasons, not the least of which is her utter lack of exposure to or knowledge
of popular music. (she is very highbrow and listens only to opera...la dee
da...)
marieve is in her late middle age, she is a published and acclaimed poet, (and
a brilliant one, i might add) and has no taste or interest in music apart from
her beloved operas. she is rich, as in donald trump or bill gates kind of
rich and, i hope she will forgive me but i think this is true, because of her
extreme wealth, lives a sort of insulated life where she is just not exposed
to much of the things we might take for granted. a quick example of this is
when she and i were talking about music and i said "so if i were to say to you
the phrase 'ooh i need your love babe, eight days a week' you would have no
idea what i was talking about, right?" and was greeted with an utterly blank
stare. so of course, i mentioned joni mitchell to her. "who?" yep, never
heard of her. i recited the chorus of both sides now..."i've looked at love
from both sides now, from give and take and still somehow its love's illusions
i recall, i really don't know love at all..." she tilted her head to one side
and thought for a moment "oooh, that's nice" she said. AHA!
so, following in saint kakki's footsteps, i have decided to make marieve a
tape and reel her in. but i have to be very careful with the selection. it
has to be one "winner" after another...nothing too abstract...nothing too
jazzy...nothing too rock and rolly. in other words, i have to reel her in,
one song at a time. i have a 110 minute tape (55 minutes both sides) and this
is my playlist, so far.
1. facelift (i think she will be touched by this, as she had a very troubled
relationship with her own mum and joni and she are about the same
age...marieve is a few years older)
2. little green (as you can see, i am thinking the more confessional songs of
joni's will be the most interesting to marieve...also the one's that feature
her poetry.)
3. both sides now (who could resist this one?)
4. circle game (the lyrics are endearing and the rhyme scheme is actually, as
we all know, quite sophisticated...)
5. the last time i saw richard (for the piano and the poetry. of all joni's
songs, i think this one is the best for standing alone as a poem, music or
none. but that helium voice...be careful!)
can anyone help me with some suggestions? remember, marieve has no, as in
absolutely none!!!, exposure to pop music. NONE! she has never heard of
people we take completely for granted. i would love to open up this world to
her, but especially to joni mitchell. i have told her i am preparing this
tape for her and she was amused at the thought!! your suggestions would be
most welcome.
thanks!!! i'll keep you posted! love, ric
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 12:56:05 -0500
From: "John M. Lind"
Subject: Re: Lame and Infuriating is Right...
daniel@diamonds.comwrote:
>
>snip<<
>Why do both Joni and Bob change the melodies of their songs both in rhythm
and harmony when they play live? Now I understand that after 30 years of
playing the same songs they must go through some sort of transformations,
You touch on the answer in your second point. They've been playing some of
these songs for 30 years! I'm sorry, but I'm convinced the reason Dylan
"butchers" his old songs live is because he's sick of playing the same
dammed song *every* night. Sort of "If I fuck these up enough, maybe no one
will want to hear them anymore and I can move on.". Or he(and Joan) can
take the route that they(and many others) have and revamp the songs into a
form that they find more interesting and will therefor actually *want* to
play. I saw Kansas in Raleigh several years ago. They came out and did a
greatest hits show performing all the songs virtually verbatum from the
records down to the solos being note-for-note and even the vocal
inflections. Now while this is technically impressive it was BORING! and
showed a complete and total lack of imagination on their part. There's an
old argument between Dead Heads and non-'Dead fans that the 'Dead sucked
because they couldn't play their songs like the records. But as I take the
D.H. point, they didn't want the songs to sound like the records. They had
more imagination than that and an appretiation for the "life" of
improvisation and the non-static capability that songs have in live
performance that make a concert unique. If you only want to hear the song
the way you already know it than be economic with your money and buy an
album you can listen to time and again for $15-$18 instead of a
one-time-only concert ticket for $40 - $60.
>>snip<<
>Changing the melodies so drastically, however, changes the song into an
entirely different entity. I guess what I'm saying is I wish she sang the
songs like I know them. And I know all of the semi-fans, who know a few
songs here and there, think the same. I could almost feel attention
waining when she sings a part of the melody we all know and love, and then
switch to a harmony or alternate melody.
I don't want to sound condesending(probably too late, I'm sure) but how can
you have the capacity to appreciate Joni's work to begin with and not find
interest in the way she varies her themes? Do you only like jokes you've
already heard?
>Part of it is obviously because she can no longer reach some of the high
notes she used to.
Probably.
>But not all of it.
See above.
>>unsnip<<
>My philosophy about music is this: the creation of a piece is a sacred
process, after which a solitary entity is created. A "piece" of music.
This piece, for better or for worse, is immortalized on the studio album
for popular artists like Joni and Bob. When they play live, the backbone
of the songs remains largely the same, speeds may change but parts are there.
Lighten up! :-) Creation is a sacred process. I certainly agree with that,
but to hold a creation to a formal, never-changing structure will stagnate
and kill it. Look at Indian sacred music, for instance. The raga(in my
understanding, please, anyone, correct me if I'm wrong)is based on a chord,
scale, and rhythm structue which are used to guide the player in a
improvosation. Very much like Jazz. You have a key, meter, and maybe even a
theme that you use as a field on which to play. Or perhaps a visual
comparison: if you paint a sunflower in a green vase with white diagonal
stripes on a blue background, and then paint it again from the exact same
angle and lighting with a purple background it's still essentially the same
piece with only a subtle, underlying diference that many people would never
even notice. A painter has more than one showing(with any luck, that is)
and certainly would have little chance at a third show if the second
consisted solely of identically re-done versions of the same pieces, eh?
Please don't take this as a personal affront or flame, just a different
point of view.
John~
NP "Good Friends"
Whew! What got into me? so much for luch hour.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:48:15 -0700
From: Bounced Message
Subject: Joni on CBC
From: "Gerald Hillman"
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:31:55 -0600
Maybe I'm reiterating some other JMDL member, but... This upcoming CBC
special on Joni looks like it's the same PPV show. Same circular
stage/wardrobe as seen on Wally's page (upcoming news). I called the
cable company, and there is no Joni PPV scheduled for November. Maybe
this is the same show, only shorter? (1 hr)
Gerald
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 10:47:42 PST
From: "Don Rowe"
Subject: Re: educating marieve...
Okay, I'm basing my picks on the poetry of the lyrics, since I can
already see that your erudite friend has responded favorably.
1. Hejira
2. Amelia
3. Song for Sharon
4. The Magdalene Laundries
5. Woman of Heart and Mind
6. The Silky Veils of Ardor
7. The Chinese Cafe ... of course, this will further her pop education
a bit beyond just Joni ... If she's seen the movie 'Ghost' -- this would
help. :-)
8. Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire
9. Chelsea Morning (I forget, did you include this one already?)
10. Harry's House
And just 'cause I'm the way I am, let me recommend songs to avoid:
1. Smokin'
2. Lead Balloon
3. Dancing Clown
4. Raised on Robbery
5. Beat of Black Wings
6. Most of DED -- I just don't think she's ready ...
7. Most of Mingus -- I know she's not ready ... ;-)
One last note before I sign off -- arrange the songs chronologically. I
think the changes in Joni's voice will be better showcased this way --
less jarring for the uninitiated. Best of luck, and let us know how it
turns out!
Don Rowe
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:50:16 -0700
From: Bounced Message
Subject: NJC: Right handed
From: "Jim L'Hommedieu]"
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:35:03 -0500
I'm right handed. What do I win?
Anxiously,
Jim L'Hommedieu *Get Well, Wally!*
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:49:08 -0700
From: Bounced Message
Subject: Crossing Musical Boundaries
From: Bob.Muller@fluordaniel.com
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:11:19 -0500
Don,
Great post about Joni being criticized for being "multi-genre". Today
more than ever, artists are classified and put in bins according to
however they're labeled. Radio is worse than its ever been. By
definition, Joni should be heard on "Adult Contemporary" or "Lite
Rock" stations but won't be because she's thought of as "Classic
Rock". Yet the Classic Rock stations don't play her because she's not
"hard" enough or thought to be "folk"!!
It makes it a lot easier for lame-brained, lazy music programmers and
marketers to niche everyone, and Joni has always refused to be
"niched".
Just look at this group - we're similar in some ways and extremely
diverse in others, and our combined musical tastes touch on everything
from Joni to The Residents to Lithuanian Language Records!
Anyway, I totally agree with you, just wish more minds were more
open...
Bob M. in SC
Countdown to Atlanta - 3 Days!!
And what's this about Joni getting the Flu??
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 10:52:31 -0800
From: Phyliss Ward
Subject: Re: educating marieve...
I breezed through my Poems and Lyrics and here are some ideas for your tape, for
various reasons but mostly because I think the poetry stands out and a few because
of the choral aspects.
Urge for Going
Ladies of the Canyon (the harmonies!)
Woodstock (the yodeling!)
A Case of You
Banquet
Judgement of the Moon and Stars (Ludwig's tune)
Shadows and Light (Choral)
Hejira
Song for Sharon
DJRD
Dry Cleaner from Des Moines (for fun!)
Moon at the Window
The Reoccuring Dream
Slouching Towards Bethlehem
Borderline
Harlem in Havana
I like your choices too with the exception of Little Green maybe
RickieLee1@aol.com wrote:
> hello listers: i have a friend who is an extraordinary woman, for many
> reasons, not the least of which is her utter lack of exposure to or knowledge
> of popular music. (she is very highbrow and listens only to opera...la dee
> da...)
> marieve is in her late middle age, she is a published and acclaimed poet, (and
> a brilliant one, i might add) and has no taste or interest in music apart from
> her beloved operas. she is rich, as in donald trump or bill gates kind of
> rich and, i hope she will forgive me but i think this is true, because of her
> extreme wealth, lives a sort of insulated life where she is just not exposed
> to much of the things we might take for granted. a quick example of this is
> when she and i were talking about music and i said "so if i were to say to you
> the phrase 'ooh i need your love babe, eight days a week' you would have no
> idea what i was talking about, right?" and was greeted with an utterly blank
> stare. so of course, i mentioned joni mitchell to her. "who?" yep, never
> heard of her. i recited the chorus of both sides now..."i've looked at love
> from both sides now, from give and take and still somehow its love's illusions
> i recall, i really don't know love at all..." she tilted her head to one side
> and thought for a moment "oooh, that's nice" she said. AHA!
> so, following in saint kakki's footsteps, i have decided to make marieve a
> tape and reel her in. but i have to be very careful with the selection. it
> has to be one "winner" after another...nothing too abstract...nothing too
> jazzy...nothing too rock and rolly. in other words, i have to reel her in,
> one song at a time. i have a 110 minute tape (55 minutes both sides) and this
> is my playlist, so far.
> 1. facelift (i think she will be touched by this, as she had a very troubled
> relationship with her own mum and joni and she are about the same
> age...marieve is a few years older)
> 2. little green (as you can see, i am thinking the more confessional songs of
> joni's will be the most interesting to marieve...also the one's that feature
> her poetry.)
> 3. both sides now (who could resist this one?)
> 4. circle game (the lyrics are endearing and the rhyme scheme is actually, as
> we all know, quite sophisticated...)
> 5. the last time i saw richard (for the piano and the poetry. of all joni's
> songs, i think this one is the best for standing alone as a poem, music or
> none. but that helium voice...be careful!)
>
> can anyone help me with some suggestions? remember, marieve has no, as in
> absolutely none!!!, exposure to pop music. NONE! she has never heard of
> people we take completely for granted. i would love to open up this world to
> her, but especially to joni mitchell. i have told her i am preparing this
> tape for her and she was amused at the thought!! your suggestions would be
> most welcome.
>
> thanks!!! i'll keep you posted! love, ric
- --
Phyliss
pward@lightspeed.net
http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 19:01:00 +0000
From: Rob Jordan
Subject: Re: NJC: Latest from a dreamer
Jim of the one-wheeled bicycle wrote:
>Last night I drempt that several UFOs were flying past my window.
Forming an orderly queue for Dr. Green, here's my NJC dream: I was walking
down the street and noticed, walking alongside me, the Queen. She said to
me "I've got to give this speech (state opening of Parliament or some such)
and they've asked me to present it with this new-fangled laptop computer -
can you help me?". So I went with her into a little room to work on her
presentation. Got her sorted out, and then I worried about how best to
advise her to turn the computer off. I said "Well, you could suspend it,
but I find that it often locks up when you restart, so I would advise
shutting down completely." She took my advice and then I took my seat in
Parliament to await the Queen's speech. At the appointed time, she stood up
to start giving the speech, but the computer was still booting up - all
kinds of screed scrolling down the big projection monitor.
Rob, transparently a computer geek.
PS a little reward for reading this far... the dream reminded of an old
song from a BB King album, called "Better Not Look Down". BB raps something
like this:
I was walking through London, England, one day, when this big car rolls up
beside me. Inside it was the Queen of England. She leans out the window and
says "Hey B! Sometimes it gets so hard being Queen, ruling over all my
subjects and all. You got any advice for those times when, you know, I got
the blues?"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:15:24 EST
From: PMcfad@aol.com
Subject: Re: educating marieve...
i would skip both face life and little green. i think they are less cultured.
i would put on chinese cafe, song for sharon, the sire of sorrow, the beat of
black wings, and summertime from the herbie hancock cd.
they'd be my choices to impress a rich late middle aged poet woman friend.
and id put them on in that order. pj
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:20:42 EST
From: LRFye@aol.com
Subject: Re: parched, the jmdl finds a little dew on a dawn-blooming cactus blossom (jc)
Kakki wrote:
> "Will they shower you with flowers, or will they shun you when your race is
> run?" 1988
>
> Same old Joni, but maybe not so hip now to keep saying it?!
Maybe not, but we may hear Sarah or Alanis or Sheryl saying the same thing in
30 years ... if they're lucky and last in the business that long!
Lori
San Antonio
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:27:47 EST
From: LRFye@aol.com
Subject: Re: Discovering DJRD (NJC, really)
Eric wondered:
> Why was DJRD excluded from Canadian record stores for so long anyway?
Perhaps the Canadian government didn't want tourists to be reminded that so
much of the prairie appears "vast and bleak and godforsaken" ... although I
personally find it haunting and beautiful in its ceaselessly windy way ...
Lori
San Antonio
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:44:49 EST
From: Chilihead2@aol.com
Subject: NJC: JMDL PARTIES & GET TOGETHERS IN NY/BOSTON AREAS
Hi,
First this is to say thank you to Duane for hosting a wonderful, elegant, and
vivacious party in the Big Apple before Joni's Garden performance. Also, to
say "Happy Birthday Duane!" Hope you made it to the Cafe Des Artistes. And ate
, umm , something good.
;-)
Since I have no life. I have decided to try and make use of it. I am trying to
put together a list of people who live in NY, CT, NJ, MA and would like to get
assemble every so often for get togethers. Heck you can be on this list even
if you are from Botswanaland but these get togethers will most likely take
place in these states.
What to do:
If you are interested,
Just respond to me and it would be helpful to know what state you're from.
Psychotic states or similar states are not helpful as far as this list is
concerned, but could be helpful elsewhere.
- -Chili
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:49:29 EST
From: TerryM2442@aol.com
Subject: Re: NJC: Latest from a dreamer
In a message dated 11/5/98 2:08:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rob.jordan@which.net writes:
<< "Well, you could suspend it,
but I find that it often locks up when you restart, so I would advise
shutting down completely." >>
Tsk. Tsk. Ze mudder you know, ze Queen mudder no less- you haf a fixation on
ze mudder of all mudders. Vy you shuut vant your mudder to shut down? You are
angry mit her, no? She should die unt rot in hell? Oy, you got a problem here,
kiddo.
Dr. SigMondegreen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:46:39 -0800
From: "Kakki"
Subject: Re: educating marieve...
Phyliss picked, and I immediately thought of these, too:
>Banquet
>Judgement of the Moon and Stars (Ludwig's tune)
>Slouching Towards Bethlehem
Also, from how you have decribed Marieve, I would choose these, some of
which are obscure, but poetic and in the more classical mode:
The Dawntreader
Hejira
Paprika Plains (could be risky but should at least try it and see what
happens)
Silky Veils of Ardor
Two Grey Rooms
Yvette in English
Love Puts on A New Face
Rickie - what kind of classical music does she listen to? Does she listen
to some of the newer, avant-garde classical music? If so, we could get way
more funky in our choices.
Kakki
NP: Shiny Toys
------------------------------
End of JMDL Digest V3 #462
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