From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest)
To: joni-digest@smoe.org
Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #457
Reply-To: joni@smoe.org
Sender: les@jmdl.com
Errors-To: les@jmdl.com
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JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 3 1998 Volume 03 : Number 457
The Joni Tour Pages:
http://www.jonimitchell.com/Tour98.html
http://www.jmdl.com/articles/tour98.htm
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Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these
addresses:
-Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com
-NewYork@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com
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JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank
message to info-jonifest1999@jmdl.com for more info.
-------
The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available
now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details.
-------
The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at
http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio,
original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more.
-------
The JMDL website can be found at and contains
interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more.
==========
TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
--------
Detroit concert [Num1JwlFan@aol.com]
finding a jmdl'er in an unexpected place NJC [Howard Motyl ]
Joni in concert(s) [Howard Motyl ]
Power and Sex ["John Villasana" ]
Re: Walter Raleigh and Chris columbus ["John Villasana" ]
Great review in NY Times! [DSK11 ]
Re: smoking on stage (JC) [Scott and Jody ]
Re: smoking on stage ["Eric Taylor" ]
Tribute [Mark-Leon Thorne ]
Re: Chicago Concert - Joni [Susan Chaloner ]
Re: Review Of Gershwin's World (SJC) [Susan Chaloner ]
Re: Great review in NY Times! [Susan Chaloner ]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:37:02 EST
From: Num1JwlFan@aol.com
Subject: Detroit concert
Hi, my name is Jenny and my friend attended the Mitchell/Dylan concert in
Detroit, but she only got to hear the first two song's by Joni and none by Bob
Dylan b/c she got sick and had to go home. For Christmas, if possible, I
would like to get her a bootleg on CD or tape of that concert, or if not that
specific one, any on the tour. If anyone could help me out, that would be
great. Thank you so much!
- -Jenny
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 20:37:13 -0600
From: Howard Motyl
Subject: finding a jmdl'er in an unexpected place NJC
A colleague handed me a photocopy of a page from Library Journal of
video reviews. A tape I had made (Image of an Assassination) was
reviewed. I was looking at the other reviews and one was written by a
Gerald A. Nataro, and I paused as I read it. Then, I read it again, and
again. And I said to myself, hey, that is Jerry. Nice company, I
thought, on this page in Library Journal. And we are everywhere, I
thought.
Howard M
"Anytime you have the opportunity to accomplish something
and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth."
Roberto Clemente
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 20:43:20 -0600
From: Howard Motyl
Subject: RE: Smoking on Stage
From: catman
Subject: Re: smoking on stage
I agree smooking is a disgusting addiction. And I am hooked. But
imagine:
A tanned burnt blonde hunky farmer leaning against a fence smoking his
fag
in the hot sun, sweat pouring down his chest and forhead. Sorry i think
that is sexy.
No, honey! That's sexxy!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 20:55:08 -0600
From: Howard Motyl
Subject: Joni in concert(s)
I was reading yet another review of a JM show--and I should say another
rave review--and it struck me that we who have seen her perform live are
all agreeing. We thought her performance was amazing. No one is
complaining about a thing she did. Everything she did/sang/played was
great. We have been arguing/debating/fighting over TTT becuz some
people like it, others hate it, still others adore it. WE even bicker
about other albums or songs. But on these, her recent performances,
especially on this latest tour, we all agree--she gave a fucking amazing
performance. She transcended and gave all of us--especially those who
have been waiting to see her live since we started listening to her--the
concert time of our lives.
May she give us many more.
Howard M
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:16:04 -0600
From: "John Villasana"
Subject: Power and Sex
Mary Grace said:
Since harassment has more to do with power than sex.
I've never quite understood this arguement. I've allways understood power and sex to be pretty much
inseparable. I can attest to this. It is indeed stimulating, and distracting to work with a
beautiful woman who is dressed very sensually. The power is all hers however.
John Villasana
San Antonio TX
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:20:25 -0600
From: "John Villasana"
Subject: Re: Walter Raleigh and Chris columbus
David Said:
In HOSL and DJRD, Joni
touches on some of the whole ideologies underlying our society -- in her
more recent songs, she often stays on the surface.
This is a great point. I sometimes wonder if Joni was scared away from her deeper leanings, as
this is when she has reported feeling that she lost her radio support.
John Villasana
San Antonio TX
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:21:29 EST
From: DKasc13293@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: MSG.NYC.11.1.98
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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In a message dated 98-11-02 19:15:29 EST, DKasc13293 writes:
<<
Wally, I need time, so busy here.
The official setlist report:
Big Yellow Taxi
Just Like This Train
Night Ride Home
Crazy Cries of Love
Harry's House
Black Crow
Amelia
Hejira
Don Juan's Reckless Daughter
Face lift
Sex Kills
The Magdalene Laundries
Trouble Man
Coves Love
Woodstock >>
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From: DKasc13293@aol.com
Return-path:
To: wallyb@pacbell.net
Subject: Re: MSG.NYC.11.1.98
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:15:29 EST
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Wally, I need time, so busy here.
The official setlist report:
Big Yellow Taxi
Just Like This Train
Night Ride Home
Crazy Cries of Love
Harry's House
Black Crow
Amelia
Hejira
Don Juan's Reckless Daughter
Face lift
Sex Kills
The Magdalene Laundries
Trouble Man
Coves Love
Woodstock
- --part0_910063290_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:22:15 EST
From: DKasc13293@aol.com
Subject: Re: MSG.NYC.11.1.98
The most distinctive difference from this performance to the shows on the
west coast was the excellect form of Joni's voice. It was the voice on Miles
of Aisles.
It was brilliant, feminine and strong.
Her attire, Issey M. deep red velvet pants suit with bamboo geaufrasch,
silver strapped shoes, Curl and teased up kind of hair, reminiscent of the
insert photo from Miles of Aisles. She was more "dressed up" than LA.
The set list, consistent with all previous shows, included the grooved
rendition of DRJD. This seemed to have all the Joniphiles in the audience,
and there were many, swaying as a community. Madison Square Garden doing a
Joni "wave"
as it were. By this time, midway into the set, everyone was singing the
words aloud!
I guess, what I feel is most successful and memorable about this particular
show, was the opportunity afforded me by Wally Breese to personally thank Joni
Mitchell.
I was given the standard indoctrination of, "don't get star struck, and
forget you're there in a professional capacity." I didn't forget that, but
since I was able to stand there grinning like a fool, Joni spotted my wide eye
open stare. I knew that she was aware of me. Behaving, I did not want to
distract her.
I shot mostly Chris Botti and Larry Klein, difficult as it was given their
position on stage and the poor light source. Continued to shoot and shoot,
moving back and forth, aware of the compositions I was creating within my
rectangular frame.
I let her play, then beamed appreciation after each song. Typical ardent
admiration.
At the conclusion of NRH it was time to leave the "pit". I stopped dead
center of the mic and said, "Thank you, thank you soooooooo very much". She
leaned and began to walk toward me smiling. Klein had overheard me and was
smiling too. Checking herself, she said "This is a union stadium, so I'd
just better play." I thought, well that's more than fine by me. Now that I
recall, the only real talking during the whole set, was the introduction to
the Magdelene Laundries.
So with that sentiment and knowledge that there were some very appreciative
fans present, Joni gave a performance so moving and giving. The energy level
was very high. The band, tighter than LA. The sound system more than
adequate.
Thank you Wally,
Duane
The NYC crowd was also extremely responsive and receptive. No one at all out
of line. Major applause for each and every song. >>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 04:49:35 +0100
From: "Juerg Loeffler"
Subject: Re: Nietzsche perspectives (SJC)
Salut Winfried,
>Nietzsche, a big fan of Richard Wagner's operas,
And in his late years also the biggest enemy ("Nietzsche kontra Wagner").
>also said "Without music, live would be a mistake". Maybe that's what Joni
>likes about him!
I think you got the point here with Joni. Why does someone get stuck with an
author? You cannot tell. It's beyond the content of the writings. Those just
serve as a trigger to get "in touch". Nietzsche has a musical soul with this
extraordinary gift (or punishment) of deep psychological insights and the
power of putting them into vivid words. I feel similarities here. Both,
Nietzsche and Joni are dionysan types, they dance and sing, and they are
dedicated to life itself, not any substitutes of it, willing to suffer in
order to stay sensitive.
>Winfried, who BTW also gets stomach cramps from listening to Wagner music
To loosen the cramps try the homeopathic way: listen to Wagners
"Siegfried Idyll". The most peaceful music i know. There's this wonderful
recording with members of the Toronto Symphony Orchestra directed by
Glenn Gould. It's his last recording (July 1982), and the first one as a
conductor. Not from this world.
Ciao Winfried
- - Juerg -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:02:09 EST
From: Denisongs@aol.com
Subject: Re: smoking on stage (NJC)
In a message dated 98-11-02 17:46:03 EST, you write:
<< Just for the sake of discussion, if cigarettes were NOT a "nicotine
delivery
system" and were NOT addictive or harmful in any way, would you or would you
not find the act of smoking sexy? >>
It is hard for me to separate this out. It is also hard for me to forget how
unsexy it is to kiss a smoker or to smell it in your hair and on your skin.
To me, it is a turn off. I think the idea of it can be sexy, but not the
reality. It is empty and powerful advertising............Denise
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:15:07 EST
From: TerryM2442@aol.com
Subject: Review Of Gershwin's World (SJC)
Jazzman's Gershwin tribute is full of silliness and genius
November 1, 1998
BY MARK STRYKER
Free Press Music Critic
In the liner notes accompanying Herbie Hancock's tribute to George Gershwin,
Hancock says he's less interested these days in making records than "making
events." "Gershwin's World" certainly qualifies.
'Gershwin's World'
out of 4 stars
Herbie Hancock
(Verve)
With guests ranging from Joni Mitchell and Stevie Wonder to Kathleen Battle
and the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra, Hancock celebrates the 100th anniversary of
Gershwin's birth with an ambitious exploration of his legacy. Not only, for
example, does Hancock dress up "Here Comes De Honey Man" in zephyr-like
textures and African rhythms but the pianist also reinvents music that spins
on an axis parallel to Gershwin: the jazz-tinged second movement of Ravel's G
Major Piano Concerto, the spunky Harlem stride of James P. Johnson's
"Blueberry Rhyme."
So who could ask for anything more?
Well, anyone who thinks, as I do, that Hancock remains potentially our
greatest living jazz pianist. Hancock aims for the Big Statement here, but
he's betrayed by unsatisfying contributions from his guest stars and several
ideas that look intriguing on paper but never deliver the goods. The tyranny
of the overproduced jazz record strikes again.
**Mitchell simply sounds silly aping late-period Billie Holiday on "The Man I
Love," with her wobbly vibrato, piercing vowels and hiccup accents. Hancock,
on organ and piano, disappears into pop-soul oblivion on W.C. Handy's "St.
Louis Blues" behind Wonder's harmonica and vocal.
There are, to be sure, several delights. The offhanded genius of Wayne
Shorter's tenor obbligato, solo and delicate interplay with Hancock redeems
"The Man I Love." Hancock and Chick Corea spar rambunctiously on "Blueberry
Rhyme."
Yet Hancock and producer Robert Sadin seem so committed to a revolving cast
and a self-conscious effort to twist Gershwin's legacy into a postmodern
pretzel that they've forgotten that Hancock's greatest gifts are his
sophisticated improvising and innovative compositional voice. What do I want?
Just Hancock surrounded by a group of musical peers playing their own music
and perhaps a standard or two for contrast. Hancock may not think so, but that
would be an event.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:07:17 -0800
From: "Kakki"
Subject: Re: MSG.NYC.11.1.98
Duane wrote:
> The most distinctive difference from this performance to the shows on the
>west coast was the excellect form of Joni's voice
>She was more "dressed up" than LA.
>The band, tighter than LA.
Oh Duane ;-( ...you are wounding some of us out here with such
"regionalism." Remember, we got the end-of-West Coast-tour, sick, sneezing,
coughing, allergic, tired, beset with mean reviews Joni in LA and she was
still pretty amazing in spite of all that!
Kakki
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 00:49:12 -0400
From: DSK11
Subject: Great review in NY Times!
November 3, 1998
Pop Review: Mitchell and Dylan Among Friends
By BEN RATLIFF
NEW YORK -- Bob Dylan is at that stage of cuddly sainthood that Jerry
Garcia reached in the 1980s: When he's having fun, the audience is
having fun. Dylan looked modestly happy as he surveyed the Madison
Square Garden audience through his deeply sunken eyes on Sunday night,
and he talked to the crowd a little more than usual. He dug extensively
into his lead-guitar playing, his recent ploy to change his group sound,
and he danced gingerly, with self-conscious awkwardness, like an
eccentric grandfather doing his impression of Chuck Berry to entertain
children.
It was a well-received performance, but uninspired. Dylan's
greatest-hits set, part of a short double-feature tour that pairs him
with Joni Mitchell, too often had the innocuous groove of a Grateful
Dead sound-alike band. You know you're in a pretty bland zone when the
mentioning of New York City in a lyric (as Dylan did in "Just Like Tom
Thumb's Blues") supplies the set's greatest crowd thrill.
With the exception of three clearly enunciated songs -- his new "Love
Sick"; a Charles Aznavour ballad, "The Times We Have Known," and a truly
rehydrated version of "Blowin' in the Wind" that marked the set's best
moment -- Dylan's delivery was characteristically bizarre. He ran
together several lines in single breath, came close to rapping at times,
and generally sounded as if he could be singing in any language.
"I usually play these songs all by myself," he said, as he introduced
the Aznavour. "But I feel all by myself now." If only he could have
better projected that feeling.
His latest album, "Time Out of Mind" (Columbia), uses a band that hangs
several sizes too loose on him; the album portrays him effectively as a
solitary, grief-wasted figure. Here, still with his castaway's croak and
wheeze, he played the gregarious rocker, and it undermined his peculiar
eminence. Besides providing a clunky, punky counterweight to the second
guitarist Larry Campbell's session-musician proficiency, Dylan's amateur
lead-guitar playing just tried one's patience.
Ms. Mitchell satisfied the full range of her audience, playing what was
mostly a fan's set with tremendous communicative clarity. She began with
"Big Yellow Taxi," which Janet Jackson bowdlerized last year for her own
hit. Ms. Mitchell's encore was a revamped "Woodstock."
But between those warhorses, she performed some of her loveliest
lesser-known work: "Hejira," "Amelia," "Harry's House," "Don Juan's
Reckless Daughter," "The Magdalene Laundries." The songs emphasized Ms.
Mitchell's brilliance with harmony. What one remembers most in her
performances is the total arrangement, with her voice as the most
important instrument.
She was pushed by her rhythm section -- drummer Brian Blade, whose fills
gave minute attention to the curves of the work, and bassist Larry Klein
- -- as well a steel-guitar player and a trumpeter who mostly got out of
the way of her harmony and lent the music lush surfaces.
In the middle was Ms. Mitchell with her guitar, which she sometimes just
strummed but more often played orchestrally, letting bass notes ring
over her teasing of idiosyncratically tuned strings.
Most of the performance lit up familiar strengths, but what audiences
have learned recently is how good a jazz singer Ms. Mitchell can be.
Putting down her guitar and lighting a cigarette, she turned to a
plainer style to sing "Comes Love," made famous by Billie Holiday.
Without the sudden rushes of phrasing and Ms. Mitchell's signature
chords wrapped around it, the song made the most of her natural voice,
its bright, cutting vowels and its new depths, a gift of age. It took
her into a completely new context.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:47:51 -0600
From: Scott and Jody
Subject: Re: smoking on stage (JC)
Denisongs@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 98-11-02 17:46:03 EST, you write:
>
> << Just for the sake of discussion, if cigarettes were NOT a "nicotine
> delivery
> system" and were NOT addictive or harmful in any way, would you or would you
> not find the act of smoking sexy?
I think the act of smoking was sexy during the 30's and 40's. We didn't have
the knowledge of it's harmful effects as we do now. I used to think it was sexy
when Fred Astaire lit up. As far as Joni goes, I can only speak for her Chicago
tour.
During her intro to Magdalene Laundries, when the heckler shouted out and she
said," I have the floor now!", I suddenly wanted to have a cigarette for her. I
still believe she stopped "moon at the window" so she could smoke. At that
point, I thought she was feeling, enough.....
I noticed that she smoked through "Trouble Man" and "Comes Love". Joni would
have been just as sexy and saultry without cig in hand, but also being a smoker I
understand her reasons for wanting to smoke at that time.
jody
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:04:40 -0500
From: "Eric Taylor"
Subject: Re: smoking on stage
Denise wrote:
>The woman is hurting herself and disrespecting other's rights
>to smoke free breathing. She is an extraordinary person with
>tremendous gifts, but this is a shortcoming and I don't understand
>why it impresses people.
Perhaps what impresses us is that Joni can chain smoke for 40 years and
still sound and look better every day! She should be the postergirl for
Natural American Cigarettes (stronger than Camels but without all those
harmful chemical additives ;~)...
Native Americans revered tobacco as the Breath of the Great Spirit. It
was smoked in the Peace Pipe and always burned at the four corners of camp
to purify the air.
As a smoker I must say that I am SO sick of non-smokers informing me
that I am killing myself and everyone around me that I could puke! I don't
smoke in non-smoking homes or sections and still people complain bitterly.
And I don't mean to jump all over your case, Denise. I'm just having a
nicotine fit!
E.T.
P.S. How do we know she was really smoking tobacco anyway?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:53:58 +1000
From: Mark-Leon Thorne
Subject: Tribute
Hi All! I've just joined the list from Canberra, Australia and was
wondering if there are any other Aussies on the list. I am a 34 year old
undergraduate neuroscience student originally from Sydney. I've been a Joni
fan since I was 16 and have every recording to date. I even picked up Song
To The Seagull on vinyl when I was in Vancouver, Canada when I was 18. I am
a self-confessed Canadaphile (or is that Cannuckphile?). I am trying to
find out about a tribute album that I heard about. I read an article about
k.d. lang in a local lesbian magazine here which said she would be
recording, "Free Man In Paris" for the tribute album which also included
the Rolling Stones amongst others. Has anyone heard any more news than
that? I also have a lot of covers of Joni songs like, Woman of Heart and
Mind by Minnie Ripperton, A Case of You by Tori Amos and another version by
Caroline Lavelle and Be Cool by Cathy Sullivan. I also heard that there was
a tribute album to Joni recorded in Canada a few years ago. Does anyone
know where I could lay my hands on a copy? I think it's called, Back To The
Garden.
Mark (Canberra)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:02:22 -0800
From: Susan Chaloner
Subject: Re: Chicago Concert - Joni
FredNow@aol.com wrote:
> and Klein's deep bottom bed
Ooooooh...Aaaaaaaaaah...Superb piece of writing Fred! I want one of
those deep bottom beds! ;~D
Susan L.A.
"...Is it too much to ask?
I want a comfortable bed
that won't hurt my back..."-Mary Chapin Carpenter
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:02:37 -0800
From: Susan Chaloner
Subject: Re: Review Of Gershwin's World (SJC)
Hey Terry!
> **Mitchell simply sounds silly aping late-period Billie Holiday on "The Man I
> Love," with her wobbly vibrato, piercing vowels and hiccup accents.
Who the f---k does this Mark Stryker think he is writing shit like this
for Free Press?! Yeah, right! That's an oxymoron in the extreme...There
has never been a f--kin FREE PRESS and there probably never will
be...I'd like to lay 'THIS SNAKE I DON'T LOVE' out to whale shit...Joni
gets more repect from rank strangers in the streets...And deep bottom
bed players ;~)
Joni: "...Darlin', you can't slay these beasts of prey..."
Susan L.A: How much Ya wanna bet? I feel lucky
"...Auntie Ruthie would have died if she knew
we were on the inside..." };~)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 98 07:39:34 GMT
From: kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant)
Subject: 2-for-1 Sale at CDNOW thru 11/9/98 (NJC)
Here's a URL for a "buy one -- get one free" deal available at CDNOW, for my
fellow bargain-lovers on the list!
http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=722122508/rl=/RP/BXGY/classics_bogo_pp.
html
-Kenny
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:48:01 -0800
From: Susan Chaloner
Subject: Re: smoking on stage
Hey E.T!
> Native Americans revered tobacco as the Breath of the Great Spirit.
Heyoka!
> As a smoker I must say that I am SO sick of non-smokers informing me
> that I am killing myself and everyone around me that I could puke!
Hey-hey-heyoka! It's a good day to die...Pass the pipe darlin' ;~)
> P.S. How do we know she was really smoking tobacco anyway?
Was she out of balance? Was she out of hand? Was she pain-free? If the
answers are negative to the first two and affirmative to the last, Joni
might have been smokin' Herbie :~D
Susan L.A.
"...These leaves are crazy..."-JoniM
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:47:36 -0800
From: Susan Chaloner
Subject: Re: Great review in NY Times!
DSK11 wrote:
>
> November 3, 1998
>
> Pop Review: Mitchell and Dylan Among Friends
>
> By BEN RATLIFF
> Most of the performance lit up familiar strengths, but what audiences
> have learned recently is how good a jazz singer Ms. Mitchell can be.
> Putting down her guitar and lighting a cigarette, she turned to a
> plainer style to sing "Comes Love," made famous by Billie Holiday.
> Without the sudden rushes of phrasing and Ms. Mitchell's signature
> chords wrapped around it, the song made the most of her natural voice,
> its bright, cutting vowels and its new depths, a gift of age. It took
> her into a completely new context.
Light a penny candle! I like this Ben Ratliff dude! Yes I do! He plays
real good even though it can't possibly be for free :~)
Meggissimo Hugs Benny Baby!
Susan L.A.
"...During times like these
The wise are influential..."-JoniM
------------------------------
End of JMDL Digest V3 #457
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Siquomb, isn't she?