From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest)
To: joni-digest@smoe.org
Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #454
Reply-To: joni@smoe.org
Sender: les@jmdl.com
Errors-To: les@jmdl.com
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JMDL Digest Monday, November 2 1998 Volume 03 : Number 454
The Joni Tour Pages:
http://www.jonimitchell.com/Tour98.html
http://www.jmdl.com/articles/tour98.htm
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Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these
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The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at
http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio,
original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more.
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The JMDL website can be found at and contains
interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more.
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TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
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Re: JONI INTERVIEW (San Fran) ["Juerg Loeffler" ]
(JC) Oh my Gaaaaawwwwwwdddddd ["Barbara L" ]
Re: Joni Flavors and Then Some... [LRFye@aol.com]
Re: You know you're a hardcore Joni fan when... [Susan Chaloner ]
Re: (NJC)Sleepy Sunday [Susan Chaloner ]
Re: JONI INTERVIEW (San Fran) ["Kakki" ]
Re: Winfried Huhn ["John Villasana" ]
Happy Digests (SJC) [Michael Paz ]
Re: Joni in US Magazine - Part 3 [Susan Chaloner ]
we are stardust, we are golden [Raquelita ]
Re: JMDL Digest V3 #453 [cholas ]
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Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 05:40:45 +0100
From: "Juerg Loeffler"
Subject: Re: JONI INTERVIEW (San Fran)
>I have *never* understood Joni's affection for Nietzsche's philosophy and
>think you may have a good point that she is taken in with the way he
writes.
I think so too. It's most likely the speech artist in Nietzsche that
fascinates Joni. If it was for any philosophical contents, she would
probably name the works she's talking about. Nietzsche has gone
through many radical changes in his writings. There's no unified
"Nietzsche philosophy", but he has always been a brilliant and
fascinating author, no matter what he writes about.
I wonder how Nietzsche reads in translations. I assume Joni reads
him in english. It seems that he is rather hard to translate, specially in
his late works. Must be something like reading James Joyce in german.
- - Juerg -
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Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 20:42:54 PST
From: "Barbara L"
Subject: (JC) Oh my Gaaaaawwwwwwdddddd
just got back from the NYC show. Blown away!!!!! She was awesome, and
then some. She sounded soooooo great! The band--un F ing believable.
Larry and Brian were so tight that shit was breathing.
Sat thru about 4 or 5 tunes of nasal Bob--that is all I could stomach.
Would someone please explain to me the appeal there. I'm missing it.
Joni is so infinitely better as a musician. In upcoming cities make
sure you see her.
Merchandise--As far as T-shirts-as listed on previous posts($25). Also
Joni lithographs: unsigned $75.00 signed $150.00
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:11:24 EST
From: LRFye@aol.com
Subject: Re: Joni Flavors and Then Some...
Michael Y. wrote:
> Julie quoted the NY Times saying:
>
> << JONI MITCHELL and Ani DiFranco at their most loquacious,>>>
And then added:
> To what are they referring here? Is it Alanis's annoying over-
> reliance on the list song? (Both "Ironic" and "Thank U" are lists
> of things rather than, well, lyrics.) Because Joni has never done
> that, that I can tell.
Actually, Joni has done at least one list song, and this is 'ironic' since
we've been discussing DED so much recently. The song is "Fiction," and here's
part of the list:
Fiction of the boob tube
Fiction of the papers
Fiction of the image
and the image makers
Fiction of the magazines
Fiction of the movies
Fiction of the "Buy me," "Watch me,"
"Listen to me!"
No complaints here, however. For the record, I think every song on DED is
brilliant and I adore the album.
As for "loquacious," Merriam-Webster online says:
lo*qua*cious (adjective)
[Latin loquac-, loquax, from loqui to speak]
First appeared 1667
1 : given to fluent or excessive talk : GARRULOUS
2 : full of excessive talk : WORDY
synonym see TALKATIVE
Joni certainly won't deny that she's talkative, although garrulous (1 : given
to prosy, rambling, or tedious loquacity : pointlessly or annoyingly
talkative) would not be a word I would use to describe her.
"Oh, I talk too loose
Again I talk too open and free
I pay a high price for my open talking
Like you do for your silent mystery" - JM, "Talk To Me"
Lori
San Antonio
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Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 21:44:35 -0800
From: Susan Chaloner
Subject: Re: You know you're a hardcore Joni fan when...
Barrylauri@aol.com wrote:
> You see a license plate with NJC and you immediately think: no joni content
I love it! Yes I do! We can get NJC plates but we still gotta NJC
without a license ;~D Just one of those sweet ironies of living in any
era
And speaking of licenses: Joni babe, do you have a license for anything
at all? ;~)
Susan L.A.
"...Makin' love without a license..."-JoniM
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:13:43 -0600
From: "John Villasana"
Subject: Re: DED
This is in reference to the various posts written for and agains't DED.
One of the earliest posts on this thread expresses the view that Joni used thin superficial synth
tones to underscore the superficiality etc of the times and the social scene she was criticising.
Though I agree that she was obviously critisising aspects her era, and I agree/ed with her
sentiments, This strikes me as revisionist. If you were a musician at that time, you might
remember that consumer digital music technology was in it's infancy. Digital sampling and recording
was an exciting new medium that was being embraced by the entire industry. Even acoustic or roots
rockish artists like Ry Cooder and Neil Young were very engaged. The excitement over the new
possibilities digital technology offered overshadowed what became known as it's flaws: thin and cold
tone (i.e. Ry Cooders Bop Til You Drop, or Neil Young's Trans). Joni was one of many artists
trying out these new tools.
Thomas Dolby was and continues to be a brilliant pioneer in that field. He was one of the first to
generate hit material utilizing the new technology and has a pretty profound track record for
sophistocated, tasteful production. I recommend Prefab Sprout's Too Wheels Good or From Langly
Park to Memphis as two very good examples of a production style that seemlessly incorporates
traditional and digital production techniques like beautiful orchestral parts and samples.
Digital technology did not go away. Engineers just learned how to tame it's harshness by using
analogue simulating electronics before going to tape, or by using tube microphones and preamps to
warm up the signal. A whole industry was spawned to deal with the problem. Unfortunately, too late
for DED.
I must agree with another post that stated that the album does not hold together very well. Some
blame is put on Dolby for trying to take over or something like that. Too many chefs... But
really, no one is to blame for trying to get a job done. I've heard much better successes by Dolby,
but I doubt any of them would have been better if he was competing with another producer's aesthetic
from one song to the next.
I happen to like DED (a lot), however it does not surprise me that a lot of people don't care for
it. Some people like acoustic instruments and soft timbres. I do too. Escuse the self
righteousness here, but I think it's important to remember (or to realize), that just because
something doesn't please you, doesn't make it an artistic failure. It's possible that you just
don't get it. Many albums have taken years for me to understand. Most of the time it has more to
do with cultural resonance. Personally, I am trying to take the attitude that most proffessional
artist are very good at what they do. Some are undeniably brilliant. Whether I like them or not is
another story.
Interstingly, as I get to know TTT, I am reminded of DED. Lots of digital technology, modern
tones. It pleases me that Joni is an artist of the present. She seems to embrace whatever new or
old technology excites her then works her voodoo with it. I sometimes get bored with other artists
because they identify with this or that sound, and never develop beyond the conventional.
A close friend told me of a wise old music instructor who told her to allways try to listen to stuff
that she didn't like. It's the only way to grow.
Sorry, I'm too lazy to look up spelling today :-).
John Villasana
San Antonio Tx.
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Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 22:20:03 -0800
From: Susan Chaloner
Subject: Re: (NJC)Sleepy Sunday
catman wrote:
>
> Yes there is lots and lots you do not know about our Miss Chaloner.
> But not being one to gossip.....
> You'll find out.
Catman love, have you been digging in the kitty litter again? ;~D
Well Babes, when you find out lots and lots be sure to de-brief me? ;~)
Thanks!
Susan L.A.
"...I don't know who I am but
Life is for learning..."-JoniM
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 22:13:43 -0800
From: "Kakki"
Subject: Re: JONI INTERVIEW (San Fran)
>I think so too. It's most likely the speech artist in Nietzsche that
>fascinates Joni. If it was for any philosophical contents, she would
>probably name the works she's talking about. Nietzsche has gone
>through many radical changes in his writings. There's no unified
>"Nietzsche philosophy", but he has always been a brilliant and
>fascinating author, no matter what he writes about.
>
>I wonder how Nietzsche reads in translations. I assume Joni reads
>him in english. It seems that he is rather hard to translate, specially in
>his late works. Must be something like reading James Joyce in german.
I thinks Nietzsche's writings read beautifully in English and enjoyed his
writing over most of the other philosophers. But as far as his content and
viewpoints - I could not find any affinity with them. While greatly
enjoyable to read, the content mostly struck me as a sort of absurdist
fantasy without much relevance to reality!
Kakki
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:25:12 -0600
From: "John Villasana"
Subject: Re: Winfried Huhn
Thanks to Winfried for the little lesson on Western thought. Very interesting.
I guess Joni was just talking out of her asshole again. I love it! As an amatuer philosopher I
have been taken to task for the same :-).
Thanks for setting the record straight Winfried.
John Villasana
San Antonio
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 00:28:49 -0500
From: Michael Paz
Subject: Happy Digests (SJC)
Hello Everyone-
Welcome back SUSAN LA!!!! We missed ya. I have really been enjoying
all the posts on the Joni meetings. They have taken my
mind off of Honduras for a while and I am proud to say I am current with
the digests (in only one sitting today).Thanx to all who have
written their support to me privately and on the list. The devastation
in Honduras continues and today I spent the entire day trying to get
all of our plans to fly a med team in place. I did a couple of
interviews with TV news as well and we are getting quite a response. The
word from home is more and more people are dead or dying (past 1000 dead
already and they are still finding bodies). The mayor of
Tegucigalpa was killed in a helicopter crash this afternoon while
surveying the damage around that city. The entire country is in chaos
and matters look very bleak. Our advance team should be airborne within
the next 36 hours. A 180 ft. boat will be loaded and on it's
way by the end of the week if not before. It is being loaded with food,
clothing, supplies, a portable kitchen (in a trailer) to set up to feed
folks, clean water, medicines, and other supplies. Dennis Quaid has
offered to charter a plane for us to carry the med team and other
volunteers that should be leaving next Friday or Saturday. We are still
looking for people to go if anyone is interested. I will most likely
be on this plane with that group. If anyone would like to send food,
medicines, TENTS, bedding, batteries, flashlights, radios (battery
operated only), monetary donations, etc.- you can send them to;
The International Hospital For Children
200A Wright Ave.
Gretna, La. 70056
Please designate them for flood relief or general use. For more
information you can call us at 504-263-7600. If you get the machine
PLEASE leave a message and someone will get back to you.
Furthermore, my cohorts on Louisiana JukeBox have kindly agreed to do a
7 hour telethon November 4, Wednesday night from 5pm-
till midnight central time. The phone number of our switchboard is
504-734-7345 ext #2378. It would be great fun to hear from fellow
listers while we are on the air. Please inform whoever answers that you
are a Joni Mitchell fan, and to let me know you called.
I am overwhelmed today by all the outpouring of support that I have
received and it has been a very emotional day. I have had a couple
of really big boo-hoos, but I am over that now and my strength will be
back up by morning. I have felt my mothers presence so much in
the past few days and it is so calming to me, I can't quite describe how
wonderful it makes me feel. I know she is guiding me in my
efforts and the power I feel is amazing.
Finally, before I collapse on my keyboard, I want to thank my dear
friend, Kakki, for the very kind words and report on the "Savior"
Premiere. Dennis and Meg are two of the most generous and gracious
people I have ever known. I hope you will go out and see this
new movie, as I hear it is "very powerful". Best wishes to all and to
all a good night.
Love,
Michael Paz
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 23:13:48 -0800
From: Susan Chaloner
Subject: Re: Joni in US Magazine - Part 3
Hey Kakki Babe,
Thanks for scribing the article...All this serious reading helps keep me
out of trouble ;~)
> What she learned out in the wilderness, she says, is how to
> use her pain to creat art: "Depression is a teaching device. It's an
> opportunity. Depression drives you involuntarily into contemplation,
> whether you like it or not."
Well, frankly Joni, I don't like it!!! Nope! No doubt about it! I don't
like being depressed at all...Ugh! Why can't we joyfully contemplate?
Why not? Why not? Oh, why not?
> I've battled
> with bears and with my apple tree."
Synchronicity! I've just finished battling one apple and one plum tree
with alot of help from my neighbour Darrel...exhausting! The apple was a
big job but the grizzly plum tree damn near killed us "...No
doubt about it! No Doubt that's essential, No doubt!.." You will never
catch me planting those suckers and charging people "...$25 bucks just
to see em!.." Sacre Bleu!
Meggissimo Hugs,
Susan L.A.
"...I'm grinning like a fool...
Let light hearts remake us..."-JoniM
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 98 23:26:02 -0700
From: Wally Breese
Subject: Stuff
Hi everyone,
ON THE ROAD- I have photos and/or reports up on the Web from the first
six of Joni's shows on the road with Bob Dylan (and their opening act,
Dave Alvin & The Guilty Men). Thanks to my reporters/photographers at
these concerts- Brad, Alan, Laura, Roger, Terry, Marian, Jim, Irwin, and
Brett for all their great work. And my gratitude in advance to the
reporters who'll be covering Joni's remaining five shows on this tour.
See my concert pages at this address:
http://www.JoniMitchell.com/Tour98.html#NewReports
A HEALTH UPDATE- This will be my last week of radiation treatments.
Besides the symptoms I've had since my treatments began, extreme fatigue
and a few bouts of nausea, a new symptom has arrived in the last week.
It's charmingly called "sunburn," but it's actually radiation burns from
the treatments. Imagine the opposite of a usual sunburn, in the sense
that my "sunburn" is on those areas which are usually covered up when
someone goes out to the beach. The doctor gave me a lotion that helps to
relieve the itching from the "sunburn." The weeks following the end of
these treatments will consist of a medical reaccessment of my health. The
good news is that as of my last scan a few weeks ago, the tumour appears
to have shrunk from 8 centimeters to less than 2; It may even be gone by
now. I'll be having another scan soon to try to determine that. The
doctor's plan is for me to have another operation, probably in early
December, to remove any visible remnants of the cancer, and hopefully to
restore me to regular working condition. I am not looking forward to more
surgery, but the result should be worth the aggravation.
I GET QUESTIONS- Phyllis Ward asked a question about whether traffic
to the Website had increased during the past month. Well, with the
release of Joni's new album, Taming The Tiger, on September 29th, her
current tour with Bob Dylan, and this week's airing of her much
anticiapted PPV-TV Special, "Joni Mitchell: Painting With Words And
Music," Joni's high profile has pushed the hits to the site from 49,828
in September to 64,744 for October. So the answer to the question is a
definite yes!
ON THE TUBE- Speaking of Joni's PPV-TV Special, I've now watched "Joni
Mitchell:Painting With Words And Music" five times. Needless to say,
it's a wonderful show. Most of the performances used in the video are
from the second night's show, but there are shots of the audience from
the first night as well as the second. I know this because I remember
where those Joni-philes who were invited through the Website were seated
each night. My friend Dan and I volunteered to sit directly behind Joni,
wearing the same dark clothes each of the two nights. Eagle Rock, the
production company, had wanted to use lighting that mostly blacked out
the audience, but Joni told them that she wanted the audience to be seen.
And we certainly are! As Darrell, my contact at Joni's managers office,
said to me last night on the phone: "Your mug is all over this film." And
it is, along with the faces of so many other longtime Joni-philes. I feel
like Miss Nancy from Romper Room saying this, but in the film "I see
Leslie & Steve Mixon, I see Jill Tamada, I see my best bud, Jim Johanson,
I see Marianna, I see my photographer/friend Karl, I see Pearl, I see
Don, and I see so many more fans and friends. Joni was very generous with
her editing and included her fans throughout the show. The celebrity
bunch featured at the concert included Graham Nash, k.d. lang, John
Densmore, Rosanna Arquette, and others. Visit the JM.COM pages (there's
even a complete set list) about Joni's upcoming TV Special at this
address:
http://www.JoniMitchell.com/EagleRockSpecialPage1198.html
Later,
Wally Breese
The Joni Mitchell Homepage
http://www.JoniMitchell.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 02:30:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Raquelita
Subject: we are stardust, we are golden
I must first and foremost thank Duane for organizing the brunch and
providing such a scrumptuous meal for all of us. I am a little drunk and
it's at least 3 am now and I just got home a few minutes ago so please
forgive my grammar. I had SUCH a grand time meeting all of you...Ashara,
Maggie, Chili, Bill, Stacy, Kai, Patrick, Duane, CHuck E., etc. Please
dont'1 think I'm dissing you if I missed your name...names aren't my
strong suit. The whole day/night were amazing and brilliant for me and I
look forward to future gatherings and correspondence with all of you
amazing, brilliant, kind, wonderful people.
best wishes,
Rachel (from NYU)
"secrecy would destroy me" -- susie bright
"I spent a long time living with that
never could give it a name
when you don't know what you're looking at
it makes it much harder to tame" -- elliott smith, "division day"
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 21:34:40 -1000
From: cholas
Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V3 #453
> Being the newbie I am,!! I just learned that Jonis' daughters' name is Kilauren.
Thought it worth mentioning that I live in Kilauea.
Is anyone in this group interested in Jonis' old music?? How bout those first five albums? Superb IMHO.
Aloha, Cholas
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End of JMDL Digest V3 #454
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Siquomb, isn't she?