From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #454 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, November 2 1998 Volume 03 : Number 454 The Joni Tour Pages: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Tour98.html http://www.jmdl.com/articles/tour98.htm ------- Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to info-jonifest1999@jmdl.com for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JONI INTERVIEW (San Fran) ["Juerg Loeffler" ] (JC) Oh my Gaaaaawwwwwwdddddd ["Barbara L" ] Re: Joni Flavors and Then Some... [LRFye@aol.com] Re: You know you're a hardcore Joni fan when... [Susan Chaloner ] Re: (NJC)Sleepy Sunday [Susan Chaloner ] Re: JONI INTERVIEW (San Fran) ["Kakki" ] Re: Winfried Huhn ["John Villasana" ] Happy Digests (SJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: Joni in US Magazine - Part 3 [Susan Chaloner ] we are stardust, we are golden [Raquelita ] Re: JMDL Digest V3 #453 [cholas ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 05:40:45 +0100 From: "Juerg Loeffler" Subject: Re: JONI INTERVIEW (San Fran) >I have *never* understood Joni's affection for Nietzsche's philosophy and >think you may have a good point that she is taken in with the way he writes. I think so too. It's most likely the speech artist in Nietzsche that fascinates Joni. If it was for any philosophical contents, she would probably name the works she's talking about. Nietzsche has gone through many radical changes in his writings. There's no unified "Nietzsche philosophy", but he has always been a brilliant and fascinating author, no matter what he writes about. I wonder how Nietzsche reads in translations. I assume Joni reads him in english. It seems that he is rather hard to translate, specially in his late works. Must be something like reading James Joyce in german. - - Juerg - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 20:42:54 PST From: "Barbara L" Subject: (JC) Oh my Gaaaaawwwwwwdddddd just got back from the NYC show. Blown away!!!!! She was awesome, and then some. She sounded soooooo great! The band--un F ing believable. Larry and Brian were so tight that shit was breathing. Sat thru about 4 or 5 tunes of nasal Bob--that is all I could stomach. Would someone please explain to me the appeal there. I'm missing it. Joni is so infinitely better as a musician. In upcoming cities make sure you see her. Merchandise--As far as T-shirts-as listed on previous posts($25). Also Joni lithographs: unsigned $75.00 signed $150.00 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:11:24 EST From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Flavors and Then Some... Michael Y. wrote: > Julie quoted the NY Times saying: > > << JONI MITCHELL and Ani DiFranco at their most loquacious,>>> And then added: > To what are they referring here? Is it Alanis's annoying over- > reliance on the list song? (Both "Ironic" and "Thank U" are lists > of things rather than, well, lyrics.) Because Joni has never done > that, that I can tell. Actually, Joni has done at least one list song, and this is 'ironic' since we've been discussing DED so much recently. The song is "Fiction," and here's part of the list: Fiction of the boob tube Fiction of the papers Fiction of the image and the image makers Fiction of the magazines Fiction of the movies Fiction of the "Buy me," "Watch me," "Listen to me!" No complaints here, however. For the record, I think every song on DED is brilliant and I adore the album. As for "loquacious," Merriam-Webster online says: lo*qua*cious (adjective) [Latin loquac-, loquax, from loqui to speak] First appeared 1667 1 : given to fluent or excessive talk : GARRULOUS 2 : full of excessive talk : WORDY synonym see TALKATIVE Joni certainly won't deny that she's talkative, although garrulous (1 : given to prosy, rambling, or tedious loquacity : pointlessly or annoyingly talkative) would not be a word I would use to describe her. "Oh, I talk too loose Again I talk too open and free I pay a high price for my open talking Like you do for your silent mystery" - JM, "Talk To Me" Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 21:44:35 -0800 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: You know you're a hardcore Joni fan when... Barrylauri@aol.com wrote: > You see a license plate with NJC and you immediately think: no joni content I love it! Yes I do! We can get NJC plates but we still gotta NJC without a license ;~D Just one of those sweet ironies of living in any era And speaking of licenses: Joni babe, do you have a license for anything at all? ;~) Susan L.A. "...Makin' love without a license..."-JoniM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:13:43 -0600 From: "John Villasana" Subject: Re: DED This is in reference to the various posts written for and agains't DED. One of the earliest posts on this thread expresses the view that Joni used thin superficial synth tones to underscore the superficiality etc of the times and the social scene she was criticising. Though I agree that she was obviously critisising aspects her era, and I agree/ed with her sentiments, This strikes me as revisionist. If you were a musician at that time, you might remember that consumer digital music technology was in it's infancy. Digital sampling and recording was an exciting new medium that was being embraced by the entire industry. Even acoustic or roots rockish artists like Ry Cooder and Neil Young were very engaged. The excitement over the new possibilities digital technology offered overshadowed what became known as it's flaws: thin and cold tone (i.e. Ry Cooders Bop Til You Drop, or Neil Young's Trans). Joni was one of many artists trying out these new tools. Thomas Dolby was and continues to be a brilliant pioneer in that field. He was one of the first to generate hit material utilizing the new technology and has a pretty profound track record for sophistocated, tasteful production. I recommend Prefab Sprout's Too Wheels Good or From Langly Park to Memphis as two very good examples of a production style that seemlessly incorporates traditional and digital production techniques like beautiful orchestral parts and samples. Digital technology did not go away. Engineers just learned how to tame it's harshness by using analogue simulating electronics before going to tape, or by using tube microphones and preamps to warm up the signal. A whole industry was spawned to deal with the problem. Unfortunately, too late for DED. I must agree with another post that stated that the album does not hold together very well. Some blame is put on Dolby for trying to take over or something like that. Too many chefs... But really, no one is to blame for trying to get a job done. I've heard much better successes by Dolby, but I doubt any of them would have been better if he was competing with another producer's aesthetic from one song to the next. I happen to like DED (a lot), however it does not surprise me that a lot of people don't care for it. Some people like acoustic instruments and soft timbres. I do too. Escuse the self righteousness here, but I think it's important to remember (or to realize), that just because something doesn't please you, doesn't make it an artistic failure. It's possible that you just don't get it. Many albums have taken years for me to understand. Most of the time it has more to do with cultural resonance. Personally, I am trying to take the attitude that most proffessional artist are very good at what they do. Some are undeniably brilliant. Whether I like them or not is another story. Interstingly, as I get to know TTT, I am reminded of DED. Lots of digital technology, modern tones. It pleases me that Joni is an artist of the present. She seems to embrace whatever new or old technology excites her then works her voodoo with it. I sometimes get bored with other artists because they identify with this or that sound, and never develop beyond the conventional. A close friend told me of a wise old music instructor who told her to allways try to listen to stuff that she didn't like. It's the only way to grow. Sorry, I'm too lazy to look up spelling today :-). John Villasana San Antonio Tx. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 22:20:03 -0800 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: (NJC)Sleepy Sunday catman wrote: > > Yes there is lots and lots you do not know about our Miss Chaloner. > But not being one to gossip..... > You'll find out. Catman love, have you been digging in the kitty litter again? ;~D Well Babes, when you find out lots and lots be sure to de-brief me? ;~) Thanks! Susan L.A. "...I don't know who I am but Life is for learning..."-JoniM ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 22:13:43 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: JONI INTERVIEW (San Fran) >I think so too. It's most likely the speech artist in Nietzsche that >fascinates Joni. If it was for any philosophical contents, she would >probably name the works she's talking about. Nietzsche has gone >through many radical changes in his writings. There's no unified >"Nietzsche philosophy", but he has always been a brilliant and >fascinating author, no matter what he writes about. > >I wonder how Nietzsche reads in translations. I assume Joni reads >him in english. It seems that he is rather hard to translate, specially in >his late works. Must be something like reading James Joyce in german. I thinks Nietzsche's writings read beautifully in English and enjoyed his writing over most of the other philosophers. But as far as his content and viewpoints - I could not find any affinity with them. While greatly enjoyable to read, the content mostly struck me as a sort of absurdist fantasy without much relevance to reality! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:25:12 -0600 From: "John Villasana" Subject: Re: Winfried Huhn Thanks to Winfried for the little lesson on Western thought. Very interesting. I guess Joni was just talking out of her asshole again. I love it! As an amatuer philosopher I have been taken to task for the same :-). Thanks for setting the record straight Winfried. John Villasana San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 00:28:49 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Happy Digests (SJC) Hello Everyone- Welcome back SUSAN LA!!!! We missed ya. I have really been enjoying all the posts on the Joni meetings. They have taken my mind off of Honduras for a while and I am proud to say I am current with the digests (in only one sitting today).Thanx to all who have written their support to me privately and on the list. The devastation in Honduras continues and today I spent the entire day trying to get all of our plans to fly a med team in place. I did a couple of interviews with TV news as well and we are getting quite a response. The word from home is more and more people are dead or dying (past 1000 dead already and they are still finding bodies). The mayor of Tegucigalpa was killed in a helicopter crash this afternoon while surveying the damage around that city. The entire country is in chaos and matters look very bleak. Our advance team should be airborne within the next 36 hours. A 180 ft. boat will be loaded and on it's way by the end of the week if not before. It is being loaded with food, clothing, supplies, a portable kitchen (in a trailer) to set up to feed folks, clean water, medicines, and other supplies. Dennis Quaid has offered to charter a plane for us to carry the med team and other volunteers that should be leaving next Friday or Saturday. We are still looking for people to go if anyone is interested. I will most likely be on this plane with that group. If anyone would like to send food, medicines, TENTS, bedding, batteries, flashlights, radios (battery operated only), monetary donations, etc.- you can send them to; The International Hospital For Children 200A Wright Ave. Gretna, La. 70056 Please designate them for flood relief or general use. For more information you can call us at 504-263-7600. If you get the machine PLEASE leave a message and someone will get back to you. Furthermore, my cohorts on Louisiana JukeBox have kindly agreed to do a 7 hour telethon November 4, Wednesday night from 5pm- till midnight central time. The phone number of our switchboard is 504-734-7345 ext #2378. It would be great fun to hear from fellow listers while we are on the air. Please inform whoever answers that you are a Joni Mitchell fan, and to let me know you called. I am overwhelmed today by all the outpouring of support that I have received and it has been a very emotional day. I have had a couple of really big boo-hoos, but I am over that now and my strength will be back up by morning. I have felt my mothers presence so much in the past few days and it is so calming to me, I can't quite describe how wonderful it makes me feel. I know she is guiding me in my efforts and the power I feel is amazing. Finally, before I collapse on my keyboard, I want to thank my dear friend, Kakki, for the very kind words and report on the "Savior" Premiere. Dennis and Meg are two of the most generous and gracious people I have ever known. I hope you will go out and see this new movie, as I hear it is "very powerful". Best wishes to all and to all a good night. Love, Michael Paz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 23:13:48 -0800 From: Susan Chaloner Subject: Re: Joni in US Magazine - Part 3 Hey Kakki Babe, Thanks for scribing the article...All this serious reading helps keep me out of trouble ;~) > What she learned out in the wilderness, she says, is how to > use her pain to creat art: "Depression is a teaching device. It's an > opportunity. Depression drives you involuntarily into contemplation, > whether you like it or not." Well, frankly Joni, I don't like it!!! Nope! No doubt about it! I don't like being depressed at all...Ugh! Why can't we joyfully contemplate? Why not? Why not? Oh, why not? > I've battled > with bears and with my apple tree." Synchronicity! I've just finished battling one apple and one plum tree with alot of help from my neighbour Darrel...exhausting! The apple was a big job but the grizzly plum tree damn near killed us "...No doubt about it! No Doubt that's essential, No doubt!.." You will never catch me planting those suckers and charging people "...$25 bucks just to see em!.." Sacre Bleu! Meggissimo Hugs, Susan L.A. "...I'm grinning like a fool... Let light hearts remake us..."-JoniM ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Nov 98 23:26:02 -0700 From: Wally Breese Subject: Stuff Hi everyone, ON THE ROAD- I have photos and/or reports up on the Web from the first six of Joni's shows on the road with Bob Dylan (and their opening act, Dave Alvin & The Guilty Men). Thanks to my reporters/photographers at these concerts- Brad, Alan, Laura, Roger, Terry, Marian, Jim, Irwin, and Brett for all their great work. And my gratitude in advance to the reporters who'll be covering Joni's remaining five shows on this tour. See my concert pages at this address: http://www.JoniMitchell.com/Tour98.html#NewReports A HEALTH UPDATE- This will be my last week of radiation treatments. Besides the symptoms I've had since my treatments began, extreme fatigue and a few bouts of nausea, a new symptom has arrived in the last week. It's charmingly called "sunburn," but it's actually radiation burns from the treatments. Imagine the opposite of a usual sunburn, in the sense that my "sunburn" is on those areas which are usually covered up when someone goes out to the beach. The doctor gave me a lotion that helps to relieve the itching from the "sunburn." The weeks following the end of these treatments will consist of a medical reaccessment of my health. The good news is that as of my last scan a few weeks ago, the tumour appears to have shrunk from 8 centimeters to less than 2; It may even be gone by now. I'll be having another scan soon to try to determine that. The doctor's plan is for me to have another operation, probably in early December, to remove any visible remnants of the cancer, and hopefully to restore me to regular working condition. I am not looking forward to more surgery, but the result should be worth the aggravation. I GET QUESTIONS- Phyllis Ward asked a question about whether traffic to the Website had increased during the past month. Well, with the release of Joni's new album, Taming The Tiger, on September 29th, her current tour with Bob Dylan, and this week's airing of her much anticiapted PPV-TV Special, "Joni Mitchell: Painting With Words And Music," Joni's high profile has pushed the hits to the site from 49,828 in September to 64,744 for October. So the answer to the question is a definite yes! ON THE TUBE- Speaking of Joni's PPV-TV Special, I've now watched "Joni Mitchell:Painting With Words And Music" five times. Needless to say, it's a wonderful show. Most of the performances used in the video are from the second night's show, but there are shots of the audience from the first night as well as the second. I know this because I remember where those Joni-philes who were invited through the Website were seated each night. My friend Dan and I volunteered to sit directly behind Joni, wearing the same dark clothes each of the two nights. Eagle Rock, the production company, had wanted to use lighting that mostly blacked out the audience, but Joni told them that she wanted the audience to be seen. And we certainly are! As Darrell, my contact at Joni's managers office, said to me last night on the phone: "Your mug is all over this film." And it is, along with the faces of so many other longtime Joni-philes. I feel like Miss Nancy from Romper Room saying this, but in the film "I see Leslie & Steve Mixon, I see Jill Tamada, I see my best bud, Jim Johanson, I see Marianna, I see my photographer/friend Karl, I see Pearl, I see Don, and I see so many more fans and friends. Joni was very generous with her editing and included her fans throughout the show. The celebrity bunch featured at the concert included Graham Nash, k.d. lang, John Densmore, Rosanna Arquette, and others. Visit the JM.COM pages (there's even a complete set list) about Joni's upcoming TV Special at this address: http://www.JoniMitchell.com/EagleRockSpecialPage1198.html Later, Wally Breese The Joni Mitchell Homepage http://www.JoniMitchell.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 02:30:42 -0500 (EST) From: Raquelita Subject: we are stardust, we are golden I must first and foremost thank Duane for organizing the brunch and providing such a scrumptuous meal for all of us. I am a little drunk and it's at least 3 am now and I just got home a few minutes ago so please forgive my grammar. I had SUCH a grand time meeting all of you...Ashara, Maggie, Chili, Bill, Stacy, Kai, Patrick, Duane, CHuck E., etc. Please dont'1 think I'm dissing you if I missed your name...names aren't my strong suit. The whole day/night were amazing and brilliant for me and I look forward to future gatherings and correspondence with all of you amazing, brilliant, kind, wonderful people. best wishes, Rachel (from NYU) "secrecy would destroy me" -- susie bright "I spent a long time living with that never could give it a name when you don't know what you're looking at it makes it much harder to tame" -- elliott smith, "division day" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 21:34:40 -1000 From: cholas Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V3 #453 > Being the newbie I am,!! I just learned that Jonis' daughters' name is Kilauren. Thought it worth mentioning that I live in Kilauea. Is anyone in this group interested in Jonis' old music?? How bout those first five albums? Superb IMHO. Aloha, Cholas ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #454 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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