From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #441 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, October 26 1998 Volume 03 : Number 441 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- (NJC)Zodeeyak Sign [Craig Harris ] Ottawa Citizen Article [Les Irvin ] Astro sign [Mary Pitassi ] Re: DJRD - Anyone has NYC tickets? - DJRD [sherrie.good@chronicle.com] Zodiac poll [Howard Wright ] NYtimes ["742 - Ainsworth, Cheryl A" ] N.Y. Times and L.A. Times Magazine [Jill Tamada ] Re: Chicago and Joni [FredNow@aol.com] joni moments (another poll) [MHart16164@aol.com] Subject: Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) [bamm_bamm@juno.com (Liz ] More Guitar Players (NJC) [michael paz ] RE: NY Times Letters [Howard Motyl ] Today in Joni History - October 27 [Today in Joni History ] Joni in Chicago--quick notes [BH1248@aol.com] no more loaves, but one more fishes [Howard Motyl ] Joni in chicago, again [Howard Motyl ] > Subject: Joni heard on BBC Radio 1 - Trouble Man [Dmascall@aol.com] Subject: Joni books [Dmascall@aol.com] Sehnsucht (SJC) [Dmascall@aol.com] Re: NY Times letters ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Re: NY Times Letters ["Kakki" ] Re: joni moments (another poll) [KerriLynn@aol.com] Re: NY Times letters -Reply [Mary Grace Valentinsson ] NJC: the Gibbs [Raquelita ] Re: Joni and adoption ["Kakki" ] Re:the Gibbs/ NYT Article [PMcfad@aol.com] joni in chicago and minneapolis [Kai Wong ] Another new fan? :) [kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)] Joni books [Scott & Jen & Anna Spring <3bunas@accessatlanta.com>] Re: Joni in chicago, again [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: NY Times letters [catman ] Re: Joni Video Clips Online (Now NJC) ["Reuben P Bell" ] Billboard/PPV TV Special [Wally Breese ] there by the grace of... i go joni [Wolfebite@aol.com] Fwd: there by the grace of... i go joni [Wolfebite@aol.com] MN and IL tapes? ["Eric G. Postel" ] Re: Joni's art (long) [TerryM2442@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:07:47 -0800 From: Craig Harris Subject: (NJC)Zodeeyak Sign Oh Craig......stop lurking and do it will ya !!??!! .................Cancer 6/26 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 10:21:35 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Ottawa Citizen Article Saturday 24 October 1998 There's no escaping the Sixties time warp The bluffer's guide to boomer music Bruce Ward The Ottawa Citizen Listen, here's the deal: the Sixties have been strip-mined. The fables, the fashions, the stupid, fun stuff, the music -- all of it. Especially the music. But some eras just won't take a break -- and won't give you one, either. Take a look at Ottawa's concert line-up this fall -- Peter, Paul & Mary, Joni Mitchell and Bob Dylan, Neil Diamond. A parade of Sixties relics, and this on the heels of Art Garfunkel last weekend and the Eric Clapton and Bonnie Raitt show in September. But it's not just the concerts, there's no escaping Sixties music. It's the soundtrack to every major movie, and the constant theme in TV commercials. What gets people up and dancing at weddings? Stuff from the Sixties. Lately, it's even being played at memorial services for Boomers who did die before they got old. For those who aren't Boomers -- God's Chosen Generation -- here's a bluffer's guide to see you through the next few weeks. Bob Dylan Oct. 30, Corel Centre, with Joni Mitchell Just in time for the Ottawa concert comes the release of the most coveted bootleg album in rock history -- Bob Dylan Live 1966: The Royal Albert Hall Concert. According to legend, the concert is the defining moment of Dylan's career. The show captures a defiant Dylan going electric for good as folkie purists howled in protest. The big moment comes when a heckler shouts "Judas," prompting Dylan's withering response: "I don't believe you -- you're a liar." This makes Dylanologists get all tingly. After an acoustic set, Dylan reappeared with The Hawks (The Band, minus drummer Levon Helm) plugged in to a powerful sound system. Then the uproar began, as Dylan knew it would. The concert catches Dylan in his peak period between Highway 61 Revisited and Blonde on Blonde. Thirty years later, it's easy to see how the single Like A Rolling Stone changed everything. Suddenly, pop writers could go beyond three-chord love songs. For the first time they could say what they meant. Pop became an art form, a religion even, and Dylan was the mover. Almost everyone was pushed by him -- the Beatles, the Stones, Jimi Hendrix and the Doors, Cream and the Byrds. His voice, nasal and nasty, redefined the whole idea of singing. Dylan was pretty good at his last Ottawa concert a few years ago, topping a show that featured the Neville Brothers and Joe Cocker. Just the possibility of him reviving the Live 66 solo versions of Visions of Johanna and Desolation Row should be enough to coax Boomers out of their couchwear and into the Corel Centre for the show. Joni Mitchell Now this is interesting. Here's the Sage of Saskatchewan getting really personal with her new album Taming the Tiger. In the title song Mitchell takes a shot at the music biz -- especially all those whiny girl singers carrying guitars and grudges: "Formula music/ Girlie guile/ Genuine junkfood/ For juveniles! Up and down the dial É Mercenary style!" There's a sense of fun in the new songs, something that has been missing since the legendary Court and Spark album. She arranged most of the songs for her guitar and keyboards, which is a welcome change from all the noodling by jazz musicians that ruined her last half dozen albums. In a song that could serve as a cautionary tale for Boomers, she declares, "And times moves swift/ And You know/ Happiness is the best face lift." Not to get hysterical or anything, but there's a chance her show with Bob Dylan could be the concert of the year. Is it so terrible that Boomers still like the music they grew up with? Other generations stay loyal to their musical heroes, and nobody sneers at them for being esthetically retarded. Dave Brubeck is touring the United Kingdom this month -- 54 years after he became the first jazz musician to make the cover of Time magazine. That's a lot of Blue Rondo a la Turk, to cite the second most famous number on Brubeck's 1961 album Time Out. Yet you don't hear anybody screaming at Brubeck, 78, to take five. Same thing with avant garde music. Karlheinz Stockhausen, the godfather of electronic music, is 70 and he's still at it. His Helicopter Quartet premiered a couple of years ago and left critics bemused. The piece was performed as the musicians circled Amsterdam in helicopters -- one per player. Meanwhile, the audience watched the proceedings on a bank of TV screens set up in the concert hall. All in the name of art. How is that any less insubstantial than the message of Na Na Hey Hey (Kiss Him Goodbye)? If you remember the Sixties, the cliche goes, you weren't really there. But you didn't have to be there, it turns out, because the music and the performers won't go away. Will Sixties music ever be history? Well, they say Glam Rock of the Seventies is coming back. David Bowie as Ziggy Stardust. New York Dolls. Gary Glitter. Flirtatious androgyny and platform shoes. But maybe a higher spirit will protect us from that. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:30:58 -0600 From: Mary Pitassi Subject: Astro sign Me: Another Virgo. Mary P. (in great company with Mariana, Marian Russell, Laura, Heather, et al!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:42:14 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: Re: DJRD - Anyone has NYC tickets? - DJRD Sounds reasonable to me! Yipeee! Joni: Please play DJRD during the Maryland show. Oh please, please, please!!! Sorry Kai, I have no NYC tickets, but I'm sure you'll find one. Sherrie jazzed (Lakota would be nice too, but I won't push my luck) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:44:18 +0000 (GMT) From: Howard Wright Subject: Zodiac poll Howard W - another Leo, and happy to join the rest of the gang of nice kitty, kitties Howard Wright ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:20:48 -0500 From: "742 - Ainsworth, Cheryl A" Subject: NYtimes Stopped at Barnes & Noble at lunch. Found the paper. could not find Julie's editorial. Saw it was the Wall St. Journal. Duh!! Found NYT. No Julie.... Was it today? (10/26/98) Yeah, Yeah I know I am either blonde or feverishly waiting on Joni's show. Or both. anyways which day? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 10:11:14 -0800 From: Jill Tamada Subject: N.Y. Times and L.A. Times Magazine Congratulations Julie. Great letter! You make us proud. Congratulations also out to our own Kenny Grant whose letter on the Joni interview by Ani DiFranco was printed yesterday in the Los Angeles Time Magazine. Thanks to everyone for the concert reviews. Keep them coming. Hearing Joni sing the brilliant DJRD is worth the ticket price alone. - -Jill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:29:34 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Chicago and Joni In a message dated 10/25/98 4:05:31 PM, docnurse@voy.net wrote: >Had a fun evening yesterday in the company of >jmdl'ers listening to Fred Simon dazzle us >with his virtuosity on grand piano. >Thanks, Fred, for the renditions of Joni tunes, >degrees-of-separation-to-Joni tunes, and all >you composed and shared with us. Thanks, Marsha, and to all who came by to hear me. It was a lot of fun for me, and I'm really glad you dug the music. A good hang, too. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:41:27 EST From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: joni moments (another poll) Okay we have the listing that rates joni's works in the order of our preferences. Some of you responded with the moments that joni really impacted you. I like those stories a lot. So, where and when were YOU when you first heard joni???? And what was the song. (Also, I am ARIES, 4/14) And as another thought...Have JMDL's ever had a reunion/convention???? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 10:41:59 -0800 From: bamm_bamm@juno.com (Liz Johnson) Subject: Subject: Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) Liz, an extreme Virgo... ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:53:40 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: More Guitar Players (NJC) Rob wrote: " I know Steve and Leslie Mixon knew him when he lived in Santa Cruz. He said he'd just moved to New Orleans. Look out Michael Paz, there's a British guitar sensation heading your way." Bring him on! Please give him my name and number (daytime office 504-731-3412) and I will assist him in any way I can. Everyone say your prayers for my people in Honduras, it looks like they are gonna get creamed with a category 5 hurricane. Have a great week all. Best Michael NP_Crush-Dave Matthews Band ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:48:01 -0600 From: Howard Motyl Subject: RE: NY Times Letters Barbara Since our TTT musings, I have relished your posts and I see that you have a couple in the latest digests. I don't have time to read them now but I will soon. I saw a bit of one where you were chastising someone (Kakki?) on her comments about the "stoopid" letters. I, too, thought that none of them were stupid and I will probably post a rebuke toward people who jump without thinking on things that may be perceived as negative toward Joni. I have a niece who is adopted and so I am somewhat sensitive to these issues. And I know that she has such a special place in my heart--and I am only her uncle--that I would feel slighted and hurt if my sister were not mentioned in a reunion article, if I can project my niece into the Kilauren scenario. Whenever I read about the Joni-Kilauren reunion, I think of the Gibbs, who lovingly raised this girl to become a wonderful (seemingly wonderful, I should say) woman and mother and now, have to compete with a pop icon for her affections. I wonder how much their hearts break thinking about it . . . I also wonder if they do not want to be a part of the whole thing and, if they don't, what are their reasons . . . the pain of seeing their loved one start to slip away from them perhaps? Howard M - -- Howard Motyl Producer, MPI Teleproductions 16101 South 108th Avenue Orland Park, IL 60462 708-873-3190 708.873.3177 Fax http://www.mpimedia.com "Anytime you have the opportunity to accomplish something and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:05:00 +0000 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - October 27 1987: Tonight, Joni performs at the "Cowboys for Indians and Justice for Leonard Peltier" benefit in front of an estimated 9,000 people at the Pacific Amphitheatre in Costa Mesa, California. The Los Angeles Times printed a review of the show, saying "Joni Mitchell, supported by a jazz-accented band including saxophonist Wayne Shorter and bassist Larry Klein, followed with a 40-minute set that reinforced her reputation as a daring, independent-minded songwriter and singer. Rather than lean toward her most melodic and best-known early work, she concentrated on recent material, previewing a song ("Lakota") from her upcoming album and offering a dramatic rendition of "Tax Free." The latter tune, from her 1985 "Dog Eat Dog" LP, rips at rightist televangelism with uncompromising ridicule and fury." Read the article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/latimes871030.htm 1994: Today's New York Daily News continues the promotion of Turbulent Indigo, publishing an article that reads "These days, Mitchell’s frustration with the business surrounds its emphasis on youth. Still, that won’t stop Mitchell’s ambition. She enthuses about new synthetic orchestrations for her guitar, about finding fresh ways to integrate classical music and African rhythms. Won’t such steps invite more criticism of her ambition, as it did with her 1979 jazz LP, "Mingus"? "So what?" Mitchell retorts, triumphant in anger. "To follow an idea through - in the end, that’s what counts." Read it at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/nydn941027.htm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:25:12 EST From: BH1248@aol.com Subject: Joni in Chicago--quick notes 1. Joni was relaxed, confident, poised, enthusiastic and in excellent voice. And I mean *excellent* voice. Allergies? What allergies? 2. The set list restructuring from the West Coast shows is a good change. Solo bits first, new covers toward the end. "Comes Love" knocked me out. 3. No DJRD after the Minneapolis tease. Shit! Not nice kitty, kitty. 4. If you go, do NOT miss Dave Alvin (nor Dylan). I wish Joni had performed "Raised on Robbery" with Dave's band. Both NJC acts were tight and on target. 5. Move over Eric Clapton, Brian Blade is God. After some loud jerk interrupted the flow of her intro to Magdalene Laundries, Joni quipped something funny and sassy like "not now honey........*I* have the floor now." Indeed she did. Time to hit the road again; two hours to drive to Indy for tonight's gig. Kingpin (with charm to sway) P.S. Thanks for the chocolates, Laura! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:22:48 -0600 From: Howard Motyl Subject: no more loaves, but one more fishes I'm Pisces, March 10 Howard M NP: Dreamland on Shadows and Light ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 13:20:43 -0600 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Joni in chicago, again One thing that pissed me off about the concert--and no, it wasn't Joni or anything she did--it was Johnny Mars, DJ for WXRT, who came out before Joni and talked about her and Dylan being so influential and all that great blah blah blah--and his station *doesn't play Joni*. I screamed that out to him but I don't think he heard me. And another thing--about Joni and her amazing performance-- when I was listening to her sing Amelia and Hejira, especially, and then again on Woodstock--I thought that these renditions of those old, heart-felt songs are now sung so much more heart-felt because of the experience of life, just living life and she was pouring all that experience into the performance of the songs. I thought this of Amelia in LA also. But then I thought, she has made these songs mature now, as if they were meant to be sung by an older, wiser person rather than a younger, greener one. And if this is true for these songs, she becomes a bigger genius in my eyes. That she, as a younger person, captured this sense of retrospection at a young age that would resonate and transcend when sung at a later age. I hope this makes sense. These songs are so *right now* for her, it seems, and you can hear that in her voice, the inflection, the phrasing, the timbre, the depth, that it is surprising to remember they are over 20 years old. She elevated herself into the high heavens last night--and me with her. I have not been in love with TTT. Some of you may know that. But I am going to listen to it with different ears or a different mindset. Facelift sent me last night--and it was hearing it on TTT that allowed this to happen. God, she is great. And as much as Dylan rocked, and rock he did, I couldn't understand a word he said and that is not the voice of a generation, it is a growl and rasp without words. Joni's voice, however, in all senses of the word was . . . beyond beyond Still on cloud nine and a half, Howard M NP (and playing all morning): Shadows & Light (and why do people hate this?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:37:48 EST From: Dmascall@aol.com Subject: > Subject: Joni heard on BBC Radio 1 - Trouble Man philip" wrote > Subject: Joni heard on BBC Radio 1 - shock > It's official. Joni Mitchell is cool and hip again. Giles Peterson > played Trouble Man on his show last week. Yikes! I know Trouble Man is on someone else's album - which artist is it? Apologies - as it's probably been mentioned in several dozen posts already. David Mascall ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:37:55 EST From: Dmascall@aol.com Subject: Subject: Joni books MP123A321@aol.com wrote: >I was at Barnes and Noble a couple of weeks ago looking for a Joni book. >When the person did a search she came up with Joni Mitchell / Memoirs -due in >5/99. > Has anyone actually seen a recent Joni book called "Paved Paradise" - I saw >it advertised in Goldmine? It is from the UK. That is all the info I have. >Anyone else? Memoirs is still on for 5/99 so far is I know (but it's been on the trade databases as forthcoming for a long time). Paved Paradise doesn't show up on my UK trade CD, though this doesn't include some of the smaller UK publishers. Best place to try might be Helter Skelter Books in London (Fax UK 171 240 9880) - they should know. They normally advertise in the back pages of UK Mojo. They were online but I don't have a website or email address. Like many terrestrial booksellers it looked like they didn't have time to update their site as much as needed when I last visited. Happy hunting! David Mascall PS - what is Goldmine? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:37:57 EST From: Dmascall@aol.com Subject: Sehnsucht (SJC) A few German-language comments and posts on the list have made me think of the lovely word "Sehnsucht" (dictionary def: longing,yearning) which I encountered through Edgar Reis's "Zweite Heimat" film cycle. This could be a one-word summing up of the feel of Hejira (as if this were possible...) if I'vegot the meaning right. I could of course be very wrong - please shoot me down or bear me out please, any JMDL German speakers. David Mascall PS - are any more one-word sum-ups possible - or am I being just too minimalist? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:38:35 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Re: NY Times letters At 11:17 AM 10/26/98 +0000, Barbata wrote: >issue that don't seem right. i'd bet that most of the letters they got had to >do with that subject, because why else would you write? you'd most likely be >a) offended by the NY Times treatment of joni or b) offended by something joni >said. to an adoptive parent, i guarantee you the casual assumption of joni as >mother and grandmother is offensive, and the most likely thing in the article >to ruffle some feathers. Barbara, Even though I too am sensitive to the adoption situation, I still think that the new mother/grandmother situation in Joni's life doesn't play a big part in her profession---it doesn't necessarily define her work. So why does the NYTM showcase **two letters** to the editor advocating for appropriate adoption-verbage---even if the two letters reflect a large percentage of letters rcvd? But isn't the main point....and I quote Kakki: "Who made the casual assumption in the article? The writer or Joni? Who should be criticized for that casual assumption?" Also, I can think of other statements-----again made by the writer of the article-----that could ruffle some feathers. **He** writes, "Although Mitchell is credited as the godmother of current female singer-songwriters and the spiritual muse of the Lilith Fair, she has always held such sisterhood, particularly with imitators, somewhat in contempt. ("Girlie guile/Genuine junk food for juveniles," she sings in "Taming the Tiger.") -JulieZW ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:40:29 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: NY Times Letters Howard wrote: >I saw a bit of one where you were chastising someone (Kakki?) on her >comments about the "stoopid" letters. I, too, thought that none of them >were stupid and I will probably post a rebuke toward people who jump >without thinking on things that may be perceived as negative toward >Joni. She did not "chastise" me directly but I got the point. I've already posted three times on why I thought 2 of the letters were stupid along with excerpts from the actual article to back up my points. Did you read them, Howard? You did not acknowledge any of my points. For the fourth time, I thought they were stupid because they make conclusions that have no logical basis from what was written in the article. But maybe that is not a valid objection. And now it seems you'd like to jump to mischaracterize me as someone who is insensitive to adoption issues, rather than just being sensitive to people being mischaracterized third hand. > I have a niece who is adopted and so I am somewhat sensitive to >these issues. And I know that she has such a special place in my >heart--and I am only her uncle--that I would feel slighted and hurt if >my sister were not mentioned in a reunion article, if I can project my >niece into the Kilauren scenario. Kilauren's adoptive parents *are* mentioned in the article and Joni says she is "totally grateful to them." > Whenever I read about the >Joni-Kilauren reunion, I think of the Gibbs, who lovingly raised this >girl to become a wonderful (seemingly wonderful, I should say) woman and mother and now, have to compete with a pop icon for her affections. I >wonder how much their hearts break thinking about it . . . You'll probably dismiss me saying this, but I feel the same way towards the Gibbs. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 14:57:00 EST From: KerriLynn@aol.com Subject: Re: joni moments (another poll) Well, I was 16 and at work (bar-restaurant) and my boss had HOSL on, with "help me" as loud as the stereo would allow... And the rest is history.... I fell in love... KerriLynn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:07:17 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: Re: NY Times letters -Reply Regarding the NY Times letter and the adoption issue: Julie and Kakki are correct when they question the source of the assumption. Even if Joni goes out of her way to say she is only the birth mother and did not rear Kilauren, she has no control over what words the writer will use to describe her maternal role. From the start, Joni has express her gartitude towards the Gibbs and so for this sensitive issue, I think that we can give her the benefit of the doubt. MG Valentinsson Cash Applications Supervisor Valley Media, Inc. Woodland, California (530) 661-7837 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:17:45 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Joni and adoption 1) I am adopted. 2) I have no plans on reuniting with my birth parents (one of whom died before I was born, but I digress...). 3) That said, I've seen nothing to indicate that Joni has been anything less than grateful to the Gibbs for being Kilauren's parents, and agree that the NY Times letters to the contrary (AS EDITED, remember these things get cut) don't seem to be based on anything Joni has ever said or done with regard to the reunification. 4) I do however understand the complex emotional issues surrounding adoption, so I wouldn't necessarily call the letters in question stupid, just inaccurate and perhaps clouded by legitimate emotions on the part of the writers. - --Michael, who is eternally grateful for both his birth and adoptive parents P.S. If you can't tell I'm a Libra from this post, then you must be blind. :-) By the way, I'm a Sun Libra, Rising Libra, Moon Aquarius, and Mercury Libra. See a pattern? Just finished playing: R.E.M., _Up_ (yes, a day early! HA!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:15:32 -0500 (EST) From: Raquelita Subject: NJC: the Gibbs Well, have there been any articles/interviews with the Gibbs? I'm not saying they can't have feelings about Joni coming into their/Kilauren's life without talking to the media about them, but it seems like they would have been given at least some opportunities to talk to the media, espcially when the story was breaking, or now, after there's been some time to adjust. I don't really know what I think about the letters/comments because I don't know for sure what the Gibbs feel, and that's not the only deciding factor, but would help me form an opinion. On letters to the editor in general...I used to write them quite often and have had them published in lots of papers and magazines, including the NY Times magazine, and it seems like the main things editors look for in letters is timeliness/direct relationship to an article they published, and personal experience. These aren't essential, but they help if you want to get letters published. rachel "he made his life a lie so he might never have to know anyone" -- elliott smith, "tom's start" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:42:15 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni and adoption Michael Y. wrote: >4) I do however understand the complex emotional issues surrounding >adoption, so I wouldn't necessarily call the letters in question stupid, >just inaccurate and perhaps clouded by legitimate emotions on the part >of the writers. You are absolutely right that the writers' letters may be clouded by legitimate emotion. And it is possible that the letters may have been significantly edited to only include the parts that would get people's attention. Using the word "stupid" can be a loaded proposition. >P.S. If you can't tell I'm a Libra from this post, then you must be blind. >:-) By the way, I'm a Sun Libra, Rising Libra, Moon Aquarius, and >Mercury Libra. See a pattern? Yes, you've convinced me with many of your thoughtful, balanced posts! Kakki, Leo sun - likes to roar, quick to anger, Sagittarius moon - impulsive, talks too freely ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:59:03 EST From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: Re:the Gibbs/ NYT Article there is a great article pertaining to all of these issues on les' site from the Globe and Mail - April 11, 1998 called LITTLE GREEN a LITTLE BLUE. Everyone should read the article if they have not. I see a pretty together person in Kilauren the way she has handled the whole thing. " On the other hand, Gibb is grateful for the upbringing she had. 'I keep trying to reassure them (Ida and David) that I love them, that they did a great job, that they're not going to lose me. I don't know what I'd have become if i'd been raised like a Bel Air brat." "At one point last year, Gibb engineered two other emotionally charged meetings. The first at Toronto's Donalda Club, introduced her adoptive parents to Mitchell. 'Everyone was a little nervous, but it had to be done'. The second, in a Yorkville bistro, reunited Mitchell and MacMath for the first time in 32 years. 'They were blushing, radiant. It was like they were back in school. I took pictures..." This article talks about the slow pace in which Joni and Kilauren are mixing it up. It's a complex issue no doubt. I would think Kilauren has more to do with maintaining her rapport with her adoptive parents than anyone else. If she values them, as it appears she does, nothing will stop those relationships. Moreover, it seems only natural to me that Joni would want to live into her reuinion with Kilauren. My guess is Joni is very aware and respectful of the role the Gibbs have in the life of Kilauren. Joni always seems very consistant with issues like this. It would be naieve of Joni to think otherwise, and one thing we all would agree Joni is not, is naieve. I think the NYT article did her an injustice. IMHO, the line about big yellow taxi is cruel and mean. pj ------------------------------ Date: 26 Oct 98 16:12:58 EST From: Kai Wong Subject: joni in chicago and minneapolis I hope joni will put DJRD and Coyote back into her set list, these are my two all time favorite joni songs. I think these two songs would be rather difficult to perform live, especially without Jaco around. The album versions were quite perfect. Kai - ------------------------- Howard Motyl Did she *really* sing Don Juan's Reckless Daughter in MN? she didn't in Chicago! And did she sing *Coyote*--for real, are you sure it was Coyote--I would have fainted if she had sung Coyote in Chi but she didn't. Kai ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:24:52 -0500 (EST) From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave) Subject: Another new fan? :) Forwarded from rec.music.dylan: >Group: rec.music.dylan Date: Mon, Oct 26, >1998, 5:19pm (EST+5) From: >flashy@ripco.com (Flash) Chicago >(snip)...Then (as many of us knew in advance) >Judy Marshall (ain't that her name?) came out >and did one hit >song (BYTaxi) (with homage to Dylan) then lit >into a perfunctory set of nameless tunes no one >knew or really cared about (except for the vast >numbers of women not in the company of >males in the venue). Jeez. She's also >apparently taken a tip from Bob in how to >perform well-known songs in unintelligible >versions finishing her set with some semblance >of her song, Woodstock. >(snip) gdave - ----------------------------------------------------------------- DaveBase @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/2349/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:04:00 -0800 From: Scott & Jen & Anna Spring <3bunas@accessatlanta.com> Subject: Joni books I'm sorry I don't know who asked about Joni's book - Paved Paradise... I have heard of it and know that it is some kind of children's book - but I have never found it... I think it would be an interesting book - let me know if you ever find it. Jen np: Love Puts on a New Face ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:10:47 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in chicago, again In a message dated 10/26/98 2:36:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, howard@mpimedia.com writes: << One thing that pissed me off about the concert--and no, it wasn't Joni or anything she did--it was Johnny Mars, DJ for WXRT, who came out before Joni and talked about her and Dylan being so influential and all that great blah blah blah--and his station *doesn't play Joni*. I screamed that out to him but I don't think he heard me. >> XRT used to play lots of Joni back when I, a native Chicagoan, was one of their earliest listeners. But then XRT has changed an awful lot since then, and not for the better, from what I read and hear about it. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:53:28 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: NY Times letters I have just got back from visiting my friend Jaqui in Cambrideshire(where I am planning to move). Anyhow, I learned tonight that she had been adopted. She described sitting on her stairs in the dark listening to her adoptive 'mother' saying to her father 'can't we send her back? I do't want a child'. Her adoptive father died when she was 11 and the mother kept her only because she couldn't get rid of her. Jaqui has been on her own since 16. An appalling story. It is good to know that BB and Kilaurien didn't have the same experience. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:20:05 -0500 From: "Reuben P Bell" Subject: Re: Joni Video Clips Online (Now NJC) I think that you have to be an aol subscriber to access this. Reuben >I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but there is a Joni site that >offers video clips of her discussing her musical influences at: >http://aol.mtv.com/mtv/influences/html/joni_mitchell/index.html > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:44:07 -0600 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Re: NY Times Letters Kakki wrote: > > Howard wrote: > > >I saw a bit of one where you were chastising someone (Kakki?) on her > >comments about the "stoopid" letters. I, too, thought that none of them > >were stupid and I will probably post a rebuke toward people who jump > >without thinking on things that may be perceived as negative toward > >Joni. > > She did not "chastise" me directly but I got the point. I've already posted > three times on why I thought 2 of the letters were stupid along with > excerpts from the actual article to back up my points. Did you read them, > Howard? You did not acknowledge any of my points. For the fourth time, I > thought they were stupid because they make conclusions that have no logical > basis from what was written in the article. But maybe that is not a valid > objection. And now it seems you'd like to jump to mischaracterize me as > someone who is insensitive to adoption issues, rather than just being > sensitive to people being mischaracterized third hand. My objection is that you called the letters *stupid* and continue to. They obviously are not. Something in the article touched these people enough--just as Julie was touched in a different way--to write a comment to the editor. They should not be insulted for their opinions, whether you agree with them or not. Their arguments may not have been logical in your mind, but they were in theirs. Maybe their emotions ran high over the emotional subject and they felt a need to express those emotions. That still does not make the opinions stupid. Also, I, in no way, characterized *anyone* as being insensitive to adoption. I never mentioned adoption and your insensitivity so it is not fair for you to claim that is what I was saying. I did not imply this either. My rebuke would have been--and is--that you got emotional because Joni was criticized in one of the letters, and the author of the piece was criticized for the depiction of the adoption situation in another one. You then turned around and called them stupid. I love Joni, too, as an artist and I suppose I would like her as a person. But if someone criticizes her, they may have very good reasons why *in their minds*, she should be criticized. That does not make them stupid. It just makes their thinking different from yours. > > > > > > Whenever I read about the > >Joni-Kilauren reunion, I think of the Gibbs, I > >wonder how much their hearts break thinking about it . . . > > You'll probably dismiss me saying this, but I feel the same way towards the > Gibbs. I dismissed nothing you said. If I dismissed it, then I wouldn't be writing to you right now. Instead, I have found you to be thoughtful in your other posts and found you lacking in this one. Simply put, it was the use of the word stupid and your dismissal of the letter writers that struck me. It seemed out of character. I don't want you to be angry--I am not--I just wanted to point out that your defense of Joni, as spirited as it was, just got a little meanspirited. I am still high from Joni last night. All was well in that auditorium last night. I hope this finds you well, too. Howard M. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 98 16:15:14 -0700 From: Wally Breese Subject: Billboard/PPV TV Special Hi everyone, The October 31st issue of Billboard magazine features the only interview Joni has given about her soon to be aired PPV-TV special (November 6th at 9PM EST on Viewers Choice, and repeated on the 7th and 8th). The final title for the show is "Joni Mitchell: Painting With Words And Music," and in the article, Joni says "I designed the set we play on...It brings together my artwork and my songs with an audience in the live, in-the-round setting of a soundstage. So it's an intimate evening of my painting and music." Joni's manager, Sam Feldman, mentions to Billboard that Eagle Rock Entertainment, the producers of the special, were the company that "...was willing to give (Joni) complete creative control." I know from my contacts that as late as the week before last, Joni was still editing the tape. But it's now ready for broadcast and I can hardly wait! There's one error in the article where the writer says that Taming The Tiger has sold 11,000 copies since September 29th, or at least the way it's written it seems like that's what he's saying. But that's not a correct statement, as the album sold over 20,000 copies in it's first week. What I think the Billboard writer meant was that TTT had sold 11,000 in their past week's issue, which was the album's second week on the charts. That would make more sense. Later, Wally Breese The Joni Mitchell Homepage http://www.JoniMitchell.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:15:27 EST From: Wolfebite@aol.com Subject: there by the grace of... i go joni hello all my own thoughts on joni in chicago.... i did get to see the concert by the graciousness and kindness of a fellow lister who had an extra ticket for me. i'm deeply grateful to you!!!!! but first- the rousing meet and greet at the Sheraton- with Marsha (TN or should I say TNT!), Diane (AK), Kingpin Bob (KY), Brad & Kim (MN), Laura (our reporter) & Mike, Jody & Scott, and myself (IL). Quite the international gathering. missed around the piano (play exquisitely by our own FredNOW, aka Fred Simon) were Howard, Robbert, Don R, and who else? Mary P- we really missed you!!!! Oh and Howard- in the 11th row- were you left or right of center? we were mostly in the 12th & 14th on the left side of the floor. the show---- kinda surreal- at least for me.... I haven't been to an arena show in years- not since REM in 1986 I think. The united center - the space is so large, so clean, and the crowd - fairly mellow- i thought it might be a college graduation or a motivational-speaker roundup- hoopla- event.... with speeches by betty ford and john glenn and susan powders on how to make the most out of your life... dave alvin and Bobby D rocked- bouncing sounds off every angle of the place, sacrificing clarity for power... Greg Kot of the Chicago Tribune put it best I think- about Joni's sound hovering in the air- filling the vast murkiness of that space with her amazingly intimate soundscape. most everyone else has hit on the ups and downs- Harry's house is dull- Hejira and amelia were out of this world- just like this train- delicious- especially how she savors the line "watching your hairline receed.........(mull, mull, mull, relish...) my vain darling." Free man was a delight- but she's never played it live, that i've heard, that matches the C&S version, or takes it somewhere new IMHO. Crazy Cries, bouncy and sweet- Happiness is the best facelift, intimate and intense... I really feel people listening to this song (just as they did at Old town)- I think joni's hit a nerve for many people..... growing up but still facing your parents approval or dissapproval... (i think of my own mother- grown with children of her own- bringing up the subject of divorce with her mother- who shot back at her that she would disgrace the family.. Miss Hollywood is what Grandma called her...). Magdaleine Laundries was really great- she spit that out with full vengence! I wanted to hear coyote and DJRD- why were they cut??? She hardly talked much so it wasn't like she used up too much time.. (like she said). I think she was distracted after Magdaleine, and her quip to rowdy hooters in the crowd, and her sour start to Moon at the window...(she stopped and seemed like she was going to start again and then changed her mind... that split second to bring it all to a close) and maybe she sensed the crowd was restless, cuz frankly, they were. Chicago audience aren't always the most polite- and aren't good at holding there attention to thing that don't constantly bang them on the head. The level of chatter during her set did increase with each song- I could hear converstions several rows away! Living here in Chicago I feel confident in saying that Chicagoans can be really loud and obnoxious without knowing it... except laura and mike and scott and jody and fred and howard and..... and maybe switching right to Trouble Man and Comes Love was a way bring her and us back out of the trance- her emotional, rhythmic pulsing, hypnotic journey she lead us on. I image doing all those songs back to back takes it's toll on her too- there's lots of old ghosts in her songs. I felt them for myself; rethinking where i was when I heard this or that song for the first time. I laughed after her set and told Kingpin- okay, now I can relax. But she did do an encore (which meant nobody yawned) of Woodstock- which gets spookier with each new telling.. her voicing tinged with the weariness of an old old story, wishing the same promise; toughened by need and urgency. then she bowed and smiled sweetly and of she went..... followed by the crazy man- BOBBY D- what a trickster he is.... so we went to Ritz Carlton (craving warmth and beauty) for a drink and glimpse perhaps- but the lounge was closed... good thing, the Ritz is about as cozy as wearing a fiberglass suit in an ice locker. and i'm so glad to have meet some of you again, and some of you for the first time. that's what makes the experience so special love doug ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:29:39 EST From: Wolfebite@aol.com Subject: Fwd: there by the grace of... i go joni This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_909448180_boundary Content-ID: <0_909448180@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII << I image (should be IMAGINE) doing all those songs back to back takes it's toll on her too- there's lots of old ghosts in her songs. >> d - --part0_909448180_boundary Content-ID: <0_909448180@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (rly-zc05.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.5]) by air-zc01.mail.aol.com (v50.22) with SMTP; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:19:53 -0400 Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by rly-zc05.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id TAA14314; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:18:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from smoe.org (080020908e73.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.147.247]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA12528; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:17:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) with SMTP id TAA20268; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:16:45 -0500 (EST) Received: by smoe.org (bulk_mailer v1.10); Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:16:42 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) id TAA20257 for joni-outgoing; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:16:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/daemon-mode-relay2) with ESMTP id TAA20250 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:16:07 -0500 (EST) From: Wolfebite@aol.com Received: from Wolfebite@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id SMJa004133 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:15:27 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <79cffe0.3635109f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:15:27 EST To: joni@smoe.org Subject: there by the grace of... i go joni X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 51 Sender: owner-joni@smoe.org Reply-To: Wolfebite@aol.com Precedence: bulk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hello all my own thoughts on joni in chicago.... i did get to see the concert by the graciousness and kindness of a fellow lister who had an extra ticket for me. i'm deeply grateful to you!!!!! but first- the rousing meet and greet at the Sheraton- with Marsha (TN or should I say TNT!), Diane (AK), Kingpin Bob (KY), Brad & Kim (MN), Laura (our reporter) & Mike, Jody & Scott, and myself (IL). Quite the international gathering. missed around the piano (play exquisitely by our own FredNOW, aka Fred Simon) were Howard, Robbert, Don R, and who else? Mary P- we really missed you!!!! Oh and Howard- in the 11th row- were you left or right of center? we were mostly in the 12th & 14th on the left side of the floor. the show---- kinda surreal- at least for me.... I haven't been to an arena show in years- not since REM in 1986 I think. The united center - the space is so large, so clean, and the crowd - fairly mellow- i thought it might be a college graduation or a motivational-speaker roundup- hoopla- event.... with speeches by betty ford and john glenn and susan powders on how to make the most out of your life... dave alvin and Bobby D rocked- bouncing sounds off every angle of the place, sacrificing clarity for power... Greg Kot of the Chicago Tribune put it best I think- about Joni's sound hovering in the air- filling the vast murkiness of that space with her amazingly intimate soundscape. most everyone else has hit on the ups and downs- Harry's house is dull- Hejira and amelia were out of this world- just like this train- delicious- especially how she savors the line "watching your hairline receed.........(mull, mull, mull, relish...) my vain darling." Free man was a delight- but she's never played it live, that i've heard, that matches the C&S version, or takes it somewhere new IMHO. Crazy Cries, bouncy and sweet- Happiness is the best facelift, intimate and intense... I really feel people listening to this song (just as they did at Old town)- I think joni's hit a nerve for many people..... growing up but still facing your parents approval or dissapproval... (i think of my own mother- grown with children of her own- bringing up the subject of divorce with her mother- who shot back at her that she would disgrace the family.. Miss Hollywood is what Grandma called her...). Magdaleine Laundries was really great- she spit that out with full vengence! I wanted to hear coyote and DJRD- why were they cut??? She hardly talked much so it wasn't like she used up too much time.. (like she said). I think she was distracted after Magdaleine, and her quip to rowdy hooters in the crowd, and her sour start to Moon at the window...(she stopped and seemed like she was going to start again and then changed her mind... that split second to bring it all to a close) and maybe she sensed the crowd was restless, cuz frankly, they were. Chicago audience aren't always the most polite- and aren't good at holding there attention to thing that don't constantly bang them on the head. The level of chatter during her set did increase with each song- I could hear converstions several rows away! Living here in Chicago I feel confident in saying that Chicagoans can be really loud and obnoxious without knowing it... except laura and mike and scott and jody and fred and howard and..... and maybe switching right to Trouble Man and Comes Love was a way bring her and us back out of the trance- her emotional, rhythmic pulsing, hypnotic journey she lead us on. I image doing all those songs back to back takes it's toll on her too- there's lots of old ghosts in her songs. I felt them for myself; rethinking where i was when I heard this or that song for the first time. I laughed after her set and told Kingpin- okay, now I can relax. But she did do an encore (which meant nobody yawned) of Woodstock- which gets spookier with each new telling.. her voicing tinged with the weariness of an old old story, wishing the same promise; toughened by need and urgency. then she bowed and smiled sweetly and of she went..... followed by the crazy man- BOBBY D- what a trickster he is.... so we went to Ritz Carlton (craving warmth and beauty) for a drink and glimpse perhaps- but the lounge was closed... good thing, the Ritz is about as cozy as wearing a fiberglass suit in an ice locker. and i'm so glad to have meet some of you again, and some of you for the first time. that's what makes the experience so special love doug - --part0_909448180_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:46:48 -0500 From: "Eric G. Postel" Subject: MN and IL tapes? Thanks for the reviews everyone. Of course, you have got the rest of us wishing we had heard either date. If anyone taped the concerts, could you please get Email me? Thanks, Eric ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:50:57 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's art (long) In a message dated 10/26/98 8:19:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, artwear@ncweb.com writes: << I too feel that she has not found her "voice" in her artwork. For someone who can provoke so much emotion from her music, I expect nothing less from her art! >> Debra and Marilyn, Though I agree with your points re: finding her voice, etc. I have to disagree with the above. Just because the woman is a genius with music and lyrics doesn't automatically mean she should be a master painter. Does a gifted potter make phenomenal etchings? Do talented dancers create impressive poetry? Did Picasso know how to jig? Kidding... Terry ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #441 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?