From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #439 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, October 26 1998 Volume 03 : Number 439 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Halloween help (absolutely NJC) [catman ] Joni Video Clips Online [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) [Marian Rulewski ] Re: "The NYTimes Magazine's" letters to the editor ["Kakki" ] Re: Zodiac Poll (NJC) [Bmcd@aol.com] RE: New Poll to Lighten the Load ["wallykai" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:18:43 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Halloween help (absolutely NJC) John T. Folden wrote: > how about someone more historical? Cleopatra, Van Gogh, etc... Need help cutting that ear off? - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:19:30 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: What's the best Joni album Dreamland and talk to me. AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/21/98 2:40:09AM, howard@mpimedia.com writes: > > << Don Juan's Reckless Daughter stinker, except for the brilliant Dreamland > >> > > Oh Howie! I have to admit I haven't listened to DJRD very often, but there is > at least one other great song on that album (leaving aside the "Paprika > Plains" debate): "The Silky Veils of Ardor". That'd be in my top ten Joni > songs. As for the album countdown, I'm working on it... > > Azeem - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 19:20:12 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Joni Video Clips Online Hi, I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but there is a Joni site that offers video clips of her discussing her musical influences at: http://aol.mtv.com/mtv/influences/html/joni_mitchell/index.html or click on: Influences: Joni Mitchell Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:22:04 +1000 From: Marian Rulewski Subject: Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) Hi, I'm a Virgo and you did spell Sagittarius right. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 19:33:29 -0500 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: Halloween help (absolutely NJC) Deb M. asked: <<>> Whatever you choose you're bound to lose to whoever shows up as Matthew Shepard. Just remember, winning isn't everything. I agree with the previous advice: go historical. Chronological distance increases the humor quotient. I'm planning on being Alice B. Toklas for Halloween, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to get my hands on all the supplies I need for my special party favors. ;-) I'm still working on it... I guarantee you if that if I come through I'll win all the contests at the party I'm going to. LOL!! - --Michael, who thinks if you go as Lady Di you'll be seeing a lot of yourself at this party NP: Dolly Parton, "Jolene" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 17:49:59 -0800 From: litrow Subject: Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) -Reply OK count us in Gail Rowlett -- Libra SO Sharon -- Aquarius ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 08:57:15 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: "The NYTimes Magazine's" letters to the editor At 05:00 PM 10/25/98 -0500, POC wrote: >Julie; Could you post the other letters? >The NYT Magazine isn't on-line Ok, here ya go Patty, Ricky Lee, Ashara, and all: The Hissing Of A Living Legend "Neil Straus's profile of JM depicts a self-absorbed individual who apears never to have grown out of a particularly narrow 1960's identity that was reprehesible even 30 years ago. The true heroes of Mitchell's life are the adoptive parents of her 30-something daughter, whom she met a year and a half ago. The people who raised her daughter appear to merit barely a bump in Mitchell's autobiography. She does, however, note that her daugther "hasn't forgotten about them." Nor should we. After all , they did free up the artist to give us "Big YEllow Taxi,' and where would we be without that?" WB, Baldwin NY "I found it disturbing for your writer to consistently refer to Mitchell as a mother and a grandmother of a daughter and a grandson whe met only recently. While I am sure giving up her baby for adoption in 1965 was a painful burden, the reality is Joni Mitchell did not raise Kilauren Gibb. Real parent do not materialize in their Children's lives after 31 years and take the credit. For Mitchell to take credit for being Kilauren's parent is like Mitchell taking credit for a song she did not write." IR, New York "Mitchell complains that her music is played in frequently (if at all) on radio, MTV or VH1. The reason Mitchell's music is not played is simple: These outlets are there to make money. Good or bad, radio stations program music according to playlists based upon sales. MTV an VH1` are basically 24-hour commercials for artists, and they too, are guided by consumer taste and sales. Ther are (supposedly) giving consumers what they want. Outside of a small fan base, there is not a lot of interest in her work." RP, New York "Im all for us women looking our age, but why is it that you chose to capture Joni Mitchell on a "bad hair day," with lighting so harsh that she's made to look older than she appears in person? No question I've been a fan for a long time, and I certainly don't think Mitchell is above reproach. She has been criticized for taking honesty and opinions too far her entire career. But, without that honesty, she couldn't have been able to write such powerful lyrics. Readers will come away from this article learning very little about the passion of Mitchell's paintings and music. Instead we get another unflattering profile of one more talented woman. Reread the article and substitute Joni's name for Barbra's or Roseanne's or Hillary's and it can almost sound like the same person." -my contribution ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 12:58:14 +1100 (EST) From: Helen Gill Subject: RE: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) -Reply hellygill is a crabby old CANCER. (23/06/79) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 21:03:42 -0500 (EST) From: Sue Subject: Re: Halloween help (absolutely NJC) Deb, Princess Di with her Harrod's bag is too obvious. Mother Theresa, too easy, everyone has that color of dishtowel. What about Roy Rogers? Or Roddy McDowell in his "ape" costume? Maybe you could wear a Clinton mask as Bill's political career is dead (sorry, I couldn't resist!!) Good luck! Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 18:41:44 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: "The NYTimes Magazine's" letters to the editor Julie posted the other letters from the N.Y. Times: I find it rather disgusting that they chose to print three stoopid letters and only Julie's as the one positive toward Joni. What's with them? Eesch. From "WB" >"Neil Straus's profile of JM depicts a self-absorbed individual who apears >never to have grown out of a particularly narrow 1960's identity that was >reprehesible even 30 years ago. HUH? >The true heroes of Mitchell's life are the adoptive parents of her 30->something daughter, whom she met a year and a >half ago. O.K. - Joni would probably agree with that. >The people who raised her daughter appear to merit barely a bump >in Mitchell's autobiography. What autobiography?!?! >She does, however, note that her daugther >"hasn't forgotten about them." Nor should we. After all , they did free up >the artist to give us "Big YEllow Taxi,' and where would we be without >that?" Yeah, WB and where would we be without your thoughtful and insightful observations? And then there is "IR": >"I found it disturbing for your writer to consistently refer to Mitchell as >a mother and a grandmother of a daughter and a grandson whe met only >recently. Um, what would IR suggest she be alternatively called? Hasn't IR considered that perhaps the daughter and grandson themselves would feel slighted if Joni were referred to in the N.Y. Times by the technically correct term "biological mother"? A bit cold considering what has been by most all accounts a very warm reunion and ongoing relationship. > While I am sure giving up her baby for adoption in 1965 was a >painful burden, the reality is Joni Mitchell did not raise Kilauren Gibb. Ah, yeah, we know that. >Real parent do not materialize in their Children's lives after 31 years and >take the credit. Credit for what? Kilauren sought her out, wanted to reunite with her and she, Marlin and Joni seem to very happy acknowledging each other as family. > For Mitchell to take credit for being Kilauren's parent >is like Mitchell taking credit for a song she did not write." > IR, New York I don't recall reading anything in the article whatsoever that stated or implied that Joni was taking "credit" for being Kilauren's parent. I seem to recall Joni saying something about learning to be a parent to Kilauren NOW. As this is something that Kilauren herself seems to desire in their relationship, where is the problem? Kakki P.S. Does Jann Wenner have some large stake in the N.Y. Times? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 21:52:05 EST From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Halloween help (absolutely NJC) In a message dated 10/25/98 7:38:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, mwyarbro@zzapp.org writes: << I agree with the previous advice: go historical. Chronological distance increases the humor quotient. >> I disagree, the more recent the death the more tasteless it is to appear as that person. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:13:12 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: "The NYTimes Magazine's" letters to the editor In a message dated 10/25/98 9:55:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << Real parent do not materialize in their Children's lives after 31 years and >take the credit. Credit for what? Kilauren sought her out, wanted to reunite with her and she, Marlin and Joni seem to very happy acknowledging each other as family. >> Kakki, You know I love ya, but I do have some feelings about this whole reunion thing. It has always bothered me that the adoptive parent's feelings have been pretty much disregarded. When the story blew, I'd wondered if they even knew who their daughter's birthmom was before the rest of the world did. Seeing Joni's and Kilauran's shining faces all over the newspapers made me ache for their feelings. Sure, they may be on the outs. Sure, Kilaurean is an adult. But still, they are the ones who raised her, not Joni. Speaking as an adoptive mom, I know how *I* would feel if this happened to my kids. I would want them to find their bio moms, but I would also hope that I'd be remembered as the one that wiped their little bottoms every day as babies and comforted them through their nightmares. I think that Joni *should* have been described as Kilauren's biomom. Just my opinion, Terry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 12:22:00 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Re: "The NYTimes Magazine's" letters to the editor At 06:41 PM 10/25/98 -0800, Kakki wrote: >I find it rather disgusting that they chose to print three stoopid letters >and only Julie's as the one positive toward Joni. What's with them? Eesch. Kakki, I had the same reaction! Why would the adoption theme dominate 2 of the four letters about Joni Mitchell? Jon reminded me of a recent NYTM tough-as-nails profile on Janet Reno, which was highlighted by a closed-in photograph of her face that had been magnified as large as the entire page---with lighting capturing every nook and cranny on her face: blemishes, large pores, and a nostril hair or two..Why was that necessary? And just as I was wondering about the NYTM pattern in the way that they profile women, I noticed that that there is also an article in today's magazine titled, "Why The Women Are Fading Away---After Anita Hill and the Year of the Woman, female candidates seemed bound for a brilliant future. But the future hasn't happened -- and 1998 could go down as the year women didn't make it after all." JulieZW ps. Joni Mitchell is also mentioned in another article this week in the NYTM, titled: "Rhapsody in Black and White: Herbie Hancock Finds a Soul Mate in George Gershwin." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 98 04:52:48 GMT From: kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant) Subject: Minneapolis concert review from the Star Tribune I found a review of the Mitchell/Dylan concert of 10/23 in the Minneapolis Star Tribune, it's quite positive, text follows. For those who prefer to read it on the web, the URL is: http://webserv1.startribune.com/cgi-bin/stOnLine/article?thisSlug=DYL24&date=24- Oct-98&word=joni&word=mitchell -Kenny waiting for the word on the Chicago show ================================================ Review: Dylan, Mitchell keep the old crowd coming Jon Bream / Star Tribune Whether it was 1968, '78 or '98, Bob Dylan and JoniMitchell demanded that we pay attention to their music. It's not simply because they are pillars in pop music's pantheon, but because they are restless adventurers who refuse to rest on their lofty laurels. What would they do next? They've always kept us guessing, and occasionally they would paint another masterpiece. Oblivious to the patterns and pressures of the music business, they have remained artists on a journey, not stars on a pedestal. They constantly have strived to challenge themselves and their listeners -- for better or worse. Mitchell, who hasn't toured since 1983, and Dylan, who is forever on tour, teamed up Friday night at Target Center. Graying baby boomers and baggy-pants Gen Xers witnessed a challenging and ultimately remarkable concert by two artists who reinvented themselves and their songs. Dylan was energetic, animated and even smiley. Mitchell's music and performance was more introverted, but eventually she reached out and rewarded the 12,000 concertgoers. Following a passionate set of Americana rock by Dave Alvin, Mitchell took the stage with just her electric guitar and jazzed up "Big Yellow Taxi," her biggest hit. For many listeners, it might have seemed like Jazzy Joni gone self-indulgent instead of an old friend putting up a pop paradise. Of course, her nasally impression of Dylan on one of the verses showed that she does have a sense of humor about this revered double billing. Joined by her quartet, Mitchell, who hadn't appeared in Minnesota since 1979, then challenged the faithful with an intimate sound in a huge venue. Using a unique electric guitar programmed with various tunings, she made music like an impressionistic painter, splashing washes of sound all over her canvas. She found a hip-shaking groove on the revamped 1974 hit "Free Man in Paris." She did a spaced-out swing, occasionally found a rhythmic groove but mostly avoided anything that would have been considered pop or folk music. Though her voice no longer reaches those clarion high notes, Mitchell's singing was about nuance, not emotion. She made "Amelia" into a spare, eloquent, beautiful discussion of dreams and false alarms. She converted Marvin Gaye's "Trouble Man" into a hushed blues rendered with the instincts of a jazz singer, including some scat. The highlight of her 80-minute set was the closer, Billie Holiday's "Comes Love," a lazy, sexy, cool sloooow blues featuring a muted trumpet solo that evoked Miles Davis. The 54-year-old singer combined wisdom and humor on the new "Face Lift," the key line of which was "happiness is the best face lift." And, despite all this jazz, she hasn't lost her political touch, as she dedicated her 1994 tune "Sex Kills" to President Clinton. Dylan always combines the political and the personal. On Friday, he did stirring versions of the '60s political commentaries "Masters of War" and "Blowin' in the Wind" as well a glowingly warm version of "To Make You Feel My Love," after which he said, "That's a song I wrote for Garth Brooks. He did it so well that I had to do it myself." That was the only comment that he made all night. But his 105-minute performance spoke volumes. The tireless troubadour, 57, was a dancing fool, doing a sprightly jig here, a quick lock-step there, striking engimatic (and fun) rock-star poses. He did a bit of Chuck Berry-style duck walk with his guitar. And while holding a harmonica in his hands (no rack this time), he danced like he was forever young. The highlights were the rocking encores of "Highway 61 Revisited," "Rainy Day Women #12 & 35" and "Love Sick" as well as the acoustic set featuring "It Ain't Me Babe," "My Back Pages" and "Tangled Up in Blue" (during which he ad-libbed a verse that sounded like he was questioning Clinton about what he was doing, and also changed "carpenter's wives" to "president's wives"). Dylan, like Mitchell, demanded that we listen carefully once again. © Copyright 1998 Star Tribune. All rights reserved. ======================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:57:41 EST From: Bmcd@aol.com Subject: Re: Title track of TTT In a message dated 98-10-22 03:04:34 EDT, you write: << ><<"kids...with those wide wide open stares/and the kids got cokes >and chocolate bars">> > >This is NOT complaining, it is merely a tender observation. >> and David replies: I think "wide wide open stares" is more of a negative value judgment than the description of the thin man So 4 days later, Karen says.... I personally can't imagine how this can be perceived as a value judgement at all, let alone a negative one. I've always seen it as mere observation of small children's perception, how they see things, with innocence, wide wide open stares. Having a 7 year old son, let me say that children do "stare" at the world which seems so free of the barriers we put up as we grow older. We become more cautious and calculating in how we observe and respond to things. That line always makes me smile, because I think kids are so great. Yours in jonispirit, Karen Mc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:06:25 -0500 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: JONI MONTH AT BORDERS BOOKS When I arrived at Borders Books to read Julie's NYT letter & buy Gershwin's World, I was pleased to see that Taming The Tiger was Borders #7 Bestseller of the week! Standing at the checkout line I was blown away to see a prominent display of many Joni CDs featuring her as Musician of the Month (nationwide)!! I didn't buy the NYT because the letters before Julie's beautiful last words were so ugly that I will boycott that rag for a while. (Is NYT in bed with RS?) What really pissed me off was the first one which deprived Joni grandmotherhood because she abandoned her infant to sing Big Yellow Taxi! Well I for one am glad that she didn't have an abortion you asshole!! That was Sag speaking Libra must tell you... E.T. NP: Gershwin's World (*****) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 01:13:25 EST From: Bmcd@aol.com Subject: Re: Zodiac Poll (NJC) A LEO checking in and to add to the ranks. Thanks Katie for your efforts. Karen Mc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 03:40:04 -0300 From: "wallykai" Subject: RE: New Poll to Lighten the Load I'm not sure my post made it to the list. So here's my astrological profile again: Sun in Capricorn Aries Rising [fight first, think later] Moon in Taurus [I'll never be skinny] Mercury, Jupiter, Saturn in Capricorn [no comments!!!] Venus in Aquarius [lots of odd friends] Mars in Cancer [manic depressive?!?!?!?] Uranus in Leo [quite a bit eccentric myself] Neptune in Scorpio [into the occult] Pluto in Virgo[not quite sure what this means] WallyK By the way alabe.com has a link to free relationship compatibility charts. I've used it and it works!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 03:44:19 -0500 From: Marsha Subject: Joni in Chicago (Long Review of Concert) It was a glorious night for Joni, her band, and all of us priveleged to witness her tonight. She was animated and quite expressive in her delivery. I think she was relaxed, and it appeared as if she were really enjoying herself. We noticed more syncopation, and rhythmic phrasing in her songs as she punched out the words, even on songs like Hejira and Amelia. Her voice was the best yet; strong, clear, reaching higher notes than on her last tour out west. She was able to accomplish grace notes and slid into multi-noted words without effort, as I said before, "punching" the delivery. Also her strength was evident in greater volume as she actually belted out notes I have not heard on recordings since Shadows and Light. Her look: A rust colored long silk skirt and matching tunic top, loose without belt nor cinching. It was a shade darker than her Parker Fly guitar and complemented it well. Her lips were berry-stained. She wore her favored silver ball earrings, and a silver necklace (?turquoise, small squash blossom pattern), and she had on her two rings of her left hand. That gemstone is still on her left ring finger, and a larger flat ring was on her middle finger. Her nails were silvery, the longer lengths being on her right hand... I couldn't see her shoes for the long skirt and heighth of the stage from my vantage point. Her hair was of fuller body, a little fly-away, parted off-center a bit. And to finish off the ensemble, I think she wore a wonder bra... ;-) The band was tight, same members. I did meet and speak briefly with that gorgeous Chris Botti, her new Botticelli horn boy (muted trumpet), who told me he is moving to LA in two weeks (Kakki, I gave him your number! ;-D) from New York. He is so beautiful. I think I am in love... He posed with me for a photo. Thanks go to our Laura O for snapping us together. The trumpet added drama and was louder and had more parts added than what Mark Isham played for her at the WB taping we will see in two weeks on PPV. The setlist deviated a bit from Minneapolis, if Bard was telling the truth...no Don Juan's Reckless Daughter tonight...shucks! And she flubbed the third line of Moon at the Window, stopped and said "I'm going to skip this one", put down her guitar and proceeded with Trouble Man. She did do the cigarette prop with Comes Love. She came back for an encore with Woodstock. The performance seemed to last only minutes, due to my transfixed state as she played. Joni looked happy tonight, and I was happy to see her looking so happy...heck, we all felt happy... She did command attention from a shouting guy during her description (lengthy) of what prompted the Magdalene Laundries, and told him "I have the floor now" and asked us if we heard her, and was her voice a blurred sound? It was after this that she flubbed Moon..., and I see her pattern of confronting something onstage and then having a bit of a delayed reaction with a blocking of thought processes, maybe due to possible anxiety she might feel afterward. I am eager to see her next in Atlanta (for me) and hope she keeps up the standard of the best performance I have seen out of the five I've been to since May. Marsha ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #439 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?