From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #434 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, October 23 1998 Volume 03 : Number 434 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Atlanta@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni's sad slide down the Billboard charts [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Chill Chili (NJC) ["Eric Taylor" ] RE: Blame the Victim (NJC whatsoever) ["Eric Taylor" ] Amelia [Hassan Zubairi ] Re: man i love Correction NJC [BarBearUh ] Re: JMDL Digest V3 #433 [jw1327 ] Re: NJC flip side of the cheese grater [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: how soon they forget (NJC) [some millers ] Re: Amelia ["Deb Messling" ] Re: Blue - the sequel [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Blue -- the sequel ["philipf" ] Re: Blue - the sequel ["Deb Messling" ] Re: Best Joni ever [Jerry Notaro ] Atlanta Show` ["742 - Ainsworth, Cheryl A" ] TTT in the Charts (Calgary) [Brett Code ] Joni At Studio C at A&M ["Peter Holmstedt" ] Re: bios [Dreamzvill@aol.com] off-list, on-list (NJC) [Mary Grace Valentinsson ] TOP LP VOTE - INTRO. [PMcfad@aol.com] Re: Official JMDL recommendation? [Dreamzvill@aol.com] Re: Return of the Chilis (and the ric)(&SusanC) [Dreamzvill@aol.com] jmdl'ers in Chicago [Howard Motyl ] FAVORITE LP VOTE RESUTLS [PMcfad@aol.com] Re: Joni's sad slide down the Billboard charts... [Dreamzvill@aol.com] Re: new wave of hostility? NJC, JMDLC [Dreamzvill@aol.com] VOTERS LIST & THEIR # 1 CHOICE [PMcfad@aol.com] TTT packaging/paintings (YES! We have Joni Content here!) [Mary Grace Val] Re: NJCRe: Blame the Victim(To Catman) [Dreamzvill@aol.com] Wildflowers (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: Dave Alvin(NJC) [Dreamzvill@aol.com] RE: Joni's sad slide down the Billboard charts ["John M. Lind" ] Re: Wildflowers (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Amelia [Gellerray@aol.com] NJCFriends [catman ] New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) [kbarnicle@ensr.com] RE: how soon they forget (NJC) ["John M. Lind" ] New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) -Reply [Mary Grace Valentinsson ] Re: Amelia ["Deb Messling" ] RE: Joni's sad slide down the Billboard charts ["Deb Messling" ] NJC: Takin' Pictures of Joni [Bounced Message ] Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) -Reply [Phyliss Ward ] favorite list of Joni albums [Tortorici@exchange.conference-board.org] Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] JM in chicago [Howard Motyl ] Joni's "Luba" look [Evian ] Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) -Reply [DKasc13293@aol.com] Tour Info [michael paz ] RE: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) -Reply [Brett Code ] Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) [Ashara@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 03:15:48 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's sad slide down the Billboard charts In a message dated 10/23/98 2:58:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jtfolden@erinet.com writes: << I remember hearing that it was being delayed so the record company could better promote it. I haven't seen a whole lot of promotion as of yet. I tend to think that it would have done much better if it had been released when originally intended... >> I suspect the bulk of that "promotion" is the combination of Joni's touring and the $20 PPV showings. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 03:33:14 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Chill Chili (NJC) Chill Chili ;~D From one who knows all too well... & Marsh Marsha... & kiss my ass everyone! Goddess, I love this list, E.T. NP: The Sound of Silence ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 03:32:10 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: RE: Blame the Victim (NJC whatsoever) John T. Folden wrote: >If you believe in God, you must also believe he created >all living things. Homosexuality exists in nature, in virtually all >warm blooded mammals. Heck, even down to the lowly frog. >Animals have nothing to go on but instinct, they don't have >peer pressure or religion to confuse... I think you're missing >one very big issue here. Homosexuality harms NO ONE. >Harrassing, beating, and killing does... Okay, I'll stay up all night debating this lively exchange (just wish it could stimulate TTT's record sales). Besides the fact that heterosexuality was The Original Sin, I have never understood how a few obscure biblical condemnations of homosexuality can eclipse the repeated rebukes of self-righteousness, hypocrisy & greed. If we are to take the Bible literally, then we should burn all suspected witches, murder the uncircumsized & go to hell for eating bacon! Bible-belters have a complicated answer for all of this, I'm sure. Now that science proves homosexuality is genetic it will hopefully not take another 100 years for the world to fathom (as in the case of Darwin & Van Gogh). It was proven that homosexuality is as natural as the birds & the bees by Alfred Kinsey & Margaret Mead back in the '50s. But humanity, intimidated by fundamentalist religions, is afraid to face reality. One of my favorite facts is a study of 64 young white heterosexual males from the University of Georgia who were wired with a rubber devise to monitor penis circumference and privately shown gay pornography. It found that 80% of the homophobic group, and 34% of the non-homophobic group, experienced erections. (Journal of Abnormal Psychology, 8/96) *Thou doth protest too much* is the perfect response to www.godhatesfags.com. Unfortunately they block all non-JC content in the subject line. So I'll try *God Is Love* tomorrow & only hope it gets through to them. E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:55:22 +-100 From: Hassan Zubairi Subject: Best Joni ever Hello folks, This is my list of Joni's BEST albums ever. 1)Blue/Hejira: both peaks of her craft at very different eras of her writing 2)For The Roses/Hissing Of Summer Lawns: explorations of a theme to their fullest 3)Court and Spark: the depths suddenly hits you on this one, they are there, but you have to listen 4)Turbulent Indigo: Brooding and unrepentant 5)Ladies Of The Canyon: The peak of her Magic Princess trips 6)Taming The Tiger: A new way 8)Shadows And Light: Height of her powers as a performer 9)Chalkmark In A Rainstorm: Synthesized Chic 10)Night Ride Home: Return to the Cactus Tree Motel 11)Don Juan's Reckless Daughter: Mad, madwoman feeling her height and her width, amazing dexterity 12)Song To A Seagull (Joni Mitchell): Amazing songs from the Cactus Tree Motel 13)Mingus: A lonely road, more of this please 14)Dog Eat Dog: I would love an acoustic percussive version of this album 15)Clouds: Surprisingly embarrassing college artsongs 16)Wild Things Run Fast: New Love, New Sound, only some songs work for me 17)Miles Of Aisles: An edgy announcement of the New way, folk is old hat, jazz is the new black 18)Misses 19)Hits These are listed to what I listen to most often. Happy tearing apart JamieJake ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:05:30 +-100 From: Hassan Zubairi Subject: Amelia Dear Coyotes, Can I have this confirmed: I read somewhere that Joni joined Dylan for a tour to prisons and bars and smalltime venues. At some of these place Joni was shouted off stage by these guys, not liking her voice, these prisoners were mainly black and could not relate to her soprano voice which was sky high and singing about love and such. Basically told her where to go.When I read this I could only make the following conjecture: This experience she puts into song as Amelia. Her statement of why she turned to jazz. Because she was getting far behind in the new music stakes and was basically not reaching people whose music she really admired. 'Maybe I've never really loved, I guess that is the truth, I've spent my whole life in CLOUDS at icy altitudes' and the folk music she refers to a stopoff point, not a permanent road: 'I pulled into THE CACTUS TREE MOTEL, To shower off the dust..' This is why Amelia works for me. Because it is a declaration of intent, a statement of This Is Me, This Is What I Want To Do. Much Joni JamieJake ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:37:50 +0000 From: BarBearUh Subject: Re: man i love Correction NJC Mark or Travis wrote: > > I love that performance also but I think the song you're thinking of is > 'The Man That Got Away'. One of Garland's signature songs (besides Over > the Rainbow). She sings it after hours in a club with the band she > works with. James Mason hears her & tells her she sings like a prize > fighter or a fly fisher - or in other words that she's a great singer. duh. just had to let you guys know i flubbed this big. liza sings a sweet version of 'the man i love' in 'new york, new york' & i think that's how the synapses fired in the wrong direction. still love that garland scene - gives me the chills. BTW, there's another new gershwin compilation out - "red, hot & rhapsody". it's got some good stuff on it - mostly quite non-traditional interpretations, and yes, another version of 'the man i love'. bb np: TTT ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:44:33 -0400 From: jw1327 Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V3 #433 Hi Y'all- Must say I got a big kick out of Eric's response to my "Joni's sad slide..." tirade, esp: > Perhaps if Joni did a video with the Flying Elvis' Actually, I think that would be one of the coolest things she could do, for as I've always maintained, Joni's a pisser! It would be too funny; I think she would love the idea ( I know I would!) So strap on that golden parachute, Joan! Yours, in the heartbreak hotel of pop culture: James the Conspiracy Chronicler ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:04:47 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC flip side of the cheese grater In a message dated 10/22/98 2:32:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PMcfad@aol.com writes: << n a message dated 98-10-22 14:09:56 EDT, you write: << Sorry, as an ex-husband who misses the home he bought before he was married as much anything in it, I find no humor in this anecdote. It's certainly no antidote. Paul I >> no no, i'm sorry. i genuinely did not mean to offend you or anyone. i was just pleased with the guys ability to make good with the present, you know...with all its complexities. true loss is a terrible thing, and ive seen its ugly head too. i hope you find a warmer, happier house than any you've had so far. >> Thanks. I did not mean to imply that you did anything wrong by sharing the story. I'm glad you did and encourage you to continue to do so. I merely wanted to point out that there are always two or more ways to look at things, and though I try to look at the bright side of things, this one struck me on the wrong side. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:24:26 -0400 (EDT) From: some millers Subject: Re: how soon they forget (NJC) Thanks for quickly responding as to the bogus nature of at least one of the earlier quotes. Chances are good the other one was fabricated too. Glad that when I forwarded the quotes I added a preface indicating that I hadn't yet had time to validate the authenticity of these myself. Guess we should all be sure to keep our bullshit detectors handy while traveling through cyberspace! Paul Slouching from S. Bethlehem to work ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:41:55 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: Amelia You're probably thinking of the appearance at the Clinton (New Jersey) State Farms, where Rubin "Hurricane" Carter was incarcerated. It's true that the inmates didn't like Joni's performance. This happened in my home town! I still have the article from my yokel paper. Joni now says she thinks Carter was guilty as hell > I read somewhere that Joni joined Dylan for a tour to prisons and bars and smalltime venues. > > At some of these place Joni was shouted off stage by these guys ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:27:12 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Blue - the sequel philipf wrote: > Speaking of the dulcimer, did Blue help to popularise the > instrument much in the US ? I was in a musical group at the time. The girl who played 12 string loved the sound of the dulcimer and bought herself one. She began playing it on new songs we learned, especially the early American folk songs. It lended a sound of authenticity to them. On Wildwood Flower I would play autoharp (influences: John Sebastian, Donovan), Gail would play dulcimer, and Patty the six string. Sounded great. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:26:11 +0100 From: "philipf" Subject: Re: Blue -- the sequel Rob wrote : - -> >One thing about the stripped down lyrics of TTT. They are in keeping with >Joni's current passion for standards. It's as if her role models are now >Gershwin and Cole Porter, rather than Dylan and Cohen. What do you think? > >Rob Yes Rob I'd go along with that. In fact I believe she is again writing standards - Man From Mars for example. Many of the songs after Blue were very Mitchellesque and difficult for other singers to interpret. I'm open to correction but I think that Blue was the last album which yielded cover versions by other singers to any extent. The thing about Hejira is that although it is undoubtedly very personal - - the language used is not simple everyday talk like on Blue or Tiger. This is the first time since Blue that she speaks directly to a loved one in such plain everyday language. First person songs since Blue, for example - Lost Chance Lost, My Secret Place, Nothing Can be Done are not nearly as raw in terms of language as All I Want, Case of You, Stay in Touch, My Best To You. >and John wrote: >Honestly, I can't really see it being a sequel What about Little Green. Do you not see any continuity there ? Philip ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:50:06 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: Blue - the sequel > > Speaking of the dulcimer, did Blue help to popularise the > > instrument much in the US ? I think Joni helped popularize it among the non-folkie element in the US. Among the folkie element, it had already been popularized by Richard Farina. Am I right? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:54:46 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Best Joni ever I love the reference to her "Magic Princess" era. I never heard that before this week, but it is great. Jerry np: I Had a King :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:34:05 -0400 From: "742 - Ainsworth, Cheryl A" Subject: Atlanta Show` I am having trouble posting to the atlanta jmdl address. I am sitting in section 9, row 6 seats 5 & 6. Curious as to what time everyone is meeting at einstein's. also, is someone keeping up with where everyone is sitting? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:59:11 EDT From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re:Dragonfly Love Chili - I laughed long and hard at the dragonfly mating visual. Thank you! :) Love, Susan C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:10:51 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: Atlanta Show` - -----Original Message----- From: 742 - Ainsworth, Cheryl A To: joni@smoe.org Date: Friday, October 23, 1998 9:29 AM Subject: Atlanta Show` >I am having trouble posting to the atlanta jmdl address. I am sitting in >section 9, row 6 seats 5 & 6. Curious as to what time everyone is meeting >at einstein's. also, is someone keeping up with where everyone is sitting? Hi, Cheryl All 5 of your messages have come through. I don't think we have set a time yet. Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:20:32 -0600 From: Brett Code Subject: TTT in the Charts (Calgary) In week 1, I told you that TTT was #13 in Calgary. Must say I was disappointed that it dropped out of the top 30 in week 2. Glad to say that TTT is back this week at #19. Sheryl Crow dropped off the chart this week. Brett np: Judgement of the Moon and Stars ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:25:41 +0100 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Joni At Studio C at A&M Forwarded From The Lee Shore: ---------------------------------------------- That 'little room at A&M' is probably the famous studio C' where Joni recorded most of her best-known recordings. It was just big enough to fit her brown Steinway and a few chairs in the recording room, and the control room was really too narrow according to 'industry standards', but it didn't matter. Henry Lewy squeezed magic out of that funky old room time and time again. It had an old API 32 in console and old time standard Altec 604 speakers. Alas, the room is now an expensive 5.1 mixing room with a Euphonics console; I liked it better in its former funky state. Why are the great rooms always called 'Studio C' ?? Stephen Barncard - Record Production and Mixing - http://www.barncard.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:25:03 +0100 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Joni Interview 1982 Forwarded From The Lee Shore: ---------------------------------------------- .....The supreme Joni moments of my lifetime occurred in 1982. In March of that year I was able to interview for her about a half hour in a little room at A&M Studios. What a wonderful storyteller. Still have the tape. She was glowing as she recalled early days with Crosby ("his eyes always looked like star sapphires") and Nash ("Superficially, he was very Mod, you know? The night I met him, I think he had an almost a tuxedo-like thing on, the way the Hollies performed."). And her detailed description of the writing of "Woodstock" not only ended up in my CSN book but the CSN box set song description as well. Just as I asked my last question, she said, very sweetly, "I really have to go now. But you're welcome to watch us rehearse." So, for the next two hours, I was among an audience of about fifteen (mostly sound guys and roadies) in this large A&M soundstage and got one chill after another as she ran through (sometimes twice) such songs as "I Heard It Through the Grapevine," "Free Man In Paris," "Raised On Robbery" and, solo on grand piano, "For Free." At around 1 a.m., as I was leaving, Joni and Larry Klein warmly said good-bye and, believe it or not, invited me to come back and listen to the next night's rehearsal! Even though there were more people around (including Elliot Roberts, her manager at the time, and a swirl of friends), I just sat back and drank in more magic, imprinted in my memory forever. All the best, Dave Z. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Oct 98 10:31:32 EDT From: Kai Wong Subject: Re: Hejira/TTT Hejira is my travelling album,it brings me to different places. TTT brings me home. Whenever I listen to this beautiful album on the road, I think of being home on the sofa, by the fireplace with a glass of red wine. Before TTT, I would almost always prefer to listen to joni by myself in the car or in my room. This is the first joni album that I would prefer to listen to with a close friend. The whole album has such a warm feeling,it's perfect for the fall/winter season. I think it's an amazing album for joni to put out at this point in her career, and it's the best I've heard joni sing. I really love this album, right up there with DJRD. My favorite song right now is No Apologies. I love the melody but initially I thought the lyrics did not work. It wasn't the poetry that joni used to write. But the other night, I was reading about the Matthew Sheperd murder in Time magazine (Cover Story) and feeling angry again, and No Apologies came on and it suddenly hit me. Joni was probably feeling eaxactly the same way when she read about the rape of the Japanese girl and she put her feelings into the lyrics of this song. Maybe it does not compare to her best lyrics but when you are outraged you want to say exactly what's on your mind. Kai Kai ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:03:31 EDT From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: bios Hi Marian - How do I post my bio to the "Bios" list??? They are so much fun to read!!! Susan C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:09:05 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: off-list, on-list (NJC) Me, being me, I couldn't let this one go by: from Chili: >>I still disagree completely with the JMDL's official recommendation that you blast someone privately rather than be impolite on the list. I would think that a better recommendation is to always treat someone with honor, love and respect: on-list or off-list. We can always celebrate our differences without blasting. MG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:07:36 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: TOP LP VOTE - INTRO. Ok, all votes that came to either joni@smoe.org or vote@jmdl have been counted. This post is the explanation of what was counted. 1. Only the first 5 choices were counted. If you listed 10, i only looked at the first 5. 2. The #1 choice got 5 points, the #2 got 4 points, the # 3 got 3 points, and so on. 3. If you listed more than one choice as #1, the 5 available points were distributed. So if you put up two lps, each got 2.5 points. 4. A few messages were too complex to weigh any point system. They were great posts, but I couldn't put them in the count. 5. The list is based upon points only. I will list the Album Name, the total points accrued, the total votes posted , and then a vote factor which is the total points divided by the total votes. The vote factor shows an estimate of how high or low the album was on the list of its voters. In other words, if the vote factor was 3.8, that album was on average for the voters of that album, between the second and third favorite. 6. I have a list of 48 voters and i'll post that list later. That makes a total possible vote of 240 ( 48 x 5 ). I count 233 votes so im off by 7 votes or 2.9%. 7. Total points available were 720 ( 48 x 15 ). I count 688 votes so im off by 4.4% of the points. I got lost on some of the split votes. Sorry. 8. When I post the list of names, if your name is not on it, it is either because I could not decipher your post or i just missed it. Sorry in advance. pj ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:10:59 EDT From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: Official JMDL recommendation? Dear Les - Thank you for your calming (I hope!) words. This is a great place to be...we are not perfect, we are human - and that is so much better; it gives us these great learning opportunities! To paraphrase Peter Pan, "Think happy thoughts...and you can fly!" Cheers, Susan C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:21:39 EDT From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: Return of the Chilis (and the ric)(&SusanC) Hey all - I switched to digests for awhile, but just piled 'em in my Filing Cabinet, and never got around to reading 'em. So here I am back in the cafe again...I missed you all! have a great weekend....:) Luv, LaSusana ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:22:03 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: jmdl'ers in Chicago Is anything happening before or after the concert here in Chicago? I saw someone write something to Fred about seeing him at Waves--what up with that? Lemme know and we'll see if we can hook up. Thanks. Howard M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:28:41 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: FAVORITE LP VOTE RESUTLS 1. Hejira - earned 137 points, voted for 35 times, and had a vote factor of 3.9 2. Blue - earned 88 points, voted for 27 times, and had a vote factor of 3.3 3. Court and Spark - 83 points, 26 votes, vf 3.19 4. For the Roses - 75 points, 25 votes, vf 3 5. Hissing of Summer Lawns - 65 points, 25 votes, vf 2.6 6. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter - 50p, 16v, vf 3.1 7. Turbulent Indigo - 44p, 18v, vf 2.3 8. Night Ride Home - 35p, 16v, vf 2.1 9. Song to a Seagull - 20p, 7v, vf 2.85 10. Ladies of the Canyon - 19p, 8 v, vf 2.3 11. Taming the Tiger - 15p, 7v, vf 2.1 12. Mingus - 13p, 5v, vf 2.6 13. Shadows and Light - 10p, 3v, vf 3.3 14. Chalk Mark in a Rain Storm - 8p, 2v, vf 4 15. Dog Eat Dog - 8p, 3v, vf 2.6 16. Clouds - 6p, 5v, vf 1.2 17. Miles of Aisles - 5p, 2v, vf 2.5 18. Hits - 3p, 1v, vf 3 19. Wild Things Run Fast 2p, 1v, vf 2 19. Misses 2p, 1v, vf 2 **** vote factor****** - point of interest - hejira 3.9 Clouds 1.2 ( of the people who voted for hejira, it was high on their list and of those that voted for clouds, it was low on their list.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:36:50 EDT From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's sad slide down the Billboard charts... James - I heartily agree with you...I hate to sound paranoid, but there have been changes in the way the music industry is run that are not good. I wish I knew what they were. I wish I knew how we could "...get back to the garden". It just used to be so much more OPEN. The industry feels so exclusionary to me now. I know I sound like I'm whining, and I apologize. I'm just trying to make sense of it...trying to see some kind of pattern, and hope things get better! Susan C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:38:42 EDT From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: new wave of hostility? NJC, JMDLC Sherrie - I had to smile all the way through your post. Right on, girl! LOVE AND PEACE, Susan C. aka LaSusana ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:43:36 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: VOTERS LIST & THEIR # 1 CHOICE dgrowe - hejira kakki - ftr paul i - ftr codeb - ftr pward - hejira lrfye - hejira harpua - hejira - ( podiatry student ) artwear - c&s catman - hosl jonimeister - blue ( most coveted sign on) mhart - djrd marilune- c&s / blue howard M - blue - one of two howards treadmill- c&s hejira - vicki rulews- blue evian - c&s ewwtaylor - s&l m.russell - c&s - day tripper mfeiring - hejira danvall - hejira messling - blue tleetie - hejira (from toledo?) jzw - hosl (surprised it wasnt djrd) notaro - blue ashara - ftr - (hugs) barrylauri - blue steve@psitech - hejira jml - djrd mwyarboro - hosl charstarl - hejira kg - ti kerrilynn - ( self professed lurker who does count) blue terrym2442 - hejira-ti ( no flames here) mdeste1 - stas briangross - blue c&s ftr markntravis - c&s seanapper - hejira pmeyer - hejira kbarnicle - hejira rhollis - lotc? ( if not his favorite, was his virgin joni lp) barbearuh - djearduh rob.jordan - blue philipf - ftr haw. - hejira (the other howard) whitlock - hejira h.gill - djrd dduncan - ttt hz. blue hejira pmcfad- c&s ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:57:24 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: TTT packaging/paintings (YES! We have Joni Content here!) I've been enjoying the postings about Joni's paintings. Kakki's have been especially educational since I'm a complete ignoramus about the different movements and schools and styles. I agree w/ the thoughts that the first painting in the booklet looks very Kilauren-ish. It picked at me in San Jose and the more I look at my work copy of TTT, the more I like to think that I see a Kilauren profile. If Joni has said that she considers herself a painter first and foremost and that it was too early in their reunion to express anything via the written medium, it makes sense that we "see" this reunion in painting first. I have also tried to view the paintings within the booklet as "placed there for a reason." Either to augment the song, help illuminate it or add another dimension to the whole thing. Working from that theory, I especially like the painting of the hand on the knee coupled with one of my favorite Joni tunes in a long time, "Stay in Touch." Having come to love this tune from my advance promo copy, seeing that hand on the knee adds another layer to the song. I like to think that I can see the knee as being "wary," (from the crossed leg) and the hand as pushing for things too fast, (from the "solid," "heavy" appearance of the hand). With that, I love the way that it illuminates my own relationship vulnerabilities. The inclusion of so many paintings is such a wonderful bonus in TTT. From the first painting of Joni's in FTR, I've always wanted to see that side of her more and more. Waitin' for quittin' time here, MG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:00:40 EDT From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: NJCRe: Blame the Victim(To Catman) Catman - Want to say it on the list... I LOVE YOU!!! YOU CAN RANT AND RAVE ALL YOU WANT - DON'T HOLD BACK!!! :) LaSusana ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:42:34 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Wildflowers (NJC) Diana wrote: > I bought J.C.'s > Wildflowers before I'd heard of J.M. > Diana (one doty cat lover) And I'm with *YOU* on both those items, Diana! All the best, ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:37:16 EDT From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: Dave Alvin(NJC) Hey Paul - Dave Alvin is great - i"ve followed him since early Blasters days. He CARES, he FEELS. Got to meet him at a record store appearance in Portland, OR in '88. Cheers, LaSusana ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 00:37:00 -0400 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: RE: Joni's sad slide down the Billboard charts John T. Folden wrote: >I remember hearing that it was being delayed so the record company could better promote it. I haven't seen a whole lot of promotion as of yet. And yet some people still claim the she's jaded and has no right to complain about the business, go fig. >I tend to think that it would have done much better if it had been released when originally intended... Or *after* the tribute album, which I officially predict will do a booming business. Unfortunately it will probably only do well in comercial sale because of the "stars" featured on it, not the merit of the material. I'm certain Joni's sales(the whole catalogue, not just TTT) will increase noticably when Reprise gets off their (_|_)'s and put's out the tribute album. How many Mtv addicted teens(Who a year ago would have mercilessly ridiculed a peer for listen to Joni at all) are going to suddenly "discover" Joni Mitchell after they hear/see a couple of her songs done by "cool" contemporary artists like Janet? John~ John~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:47:19 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Dulcimers (NJC) Philip wrote: >Speaking of the dulcimer, did Blue help to popularise the >instrument much in the US ? Yes, I think so. A bunch of innovative new dulcimer players showed up in the mid-70's, and started the annual "Kindred Gatherings" (still happening) in '74. Given "Blue"'s '71 (?) release date, I'm sure it had some influence on them. Yes, dulcimers do get drowned out in your typical Irish session, however there are a lot of people playing traditional Irish music (O'Carolan, etc.) on the instrument...hey, including me! All the best! ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:43:00 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Wildflowers (NJC) Count me in. Wildflowers and Album 1700 were our senior class' favorite albums. Never off the turntables. Then the batlle in college years was between Tapestry and LOTC. Jerry Steve Dulson wrote: > Diana wrote: > > > I bought J.C.'s > > Wildflowers before I'd heard of J.M. > > Diana (one doty cat lover) > > And I'm with *YOU* on both those items, Diana! > > All the best, > > ############################################################## > Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com > "The Tinker's Own" > http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html > "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" > http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:43:19 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: Amelia maybe you could post the article (from the local yokel paper)? maybe? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 17:49:53 +0100 From: catman Subject: NJCFriends Thankyou all for your kind and comforting words. Don't think for one moment they don't mean anything or aren't felt. I feel them. I need to know there is sanity and compassion out there. Although that isn't the purpose of this list i am so grateful to you all for allowing me th space to be me. i am hurting so bad and wouldn't know what to do if I couldn't write. - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:41:38 EDT From: kbarnicle@ensr.com Subject: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) It's a beautiful sunny day here on the Cape and I feel heavy in the heart as a result of the recent slug fest. So, how about a new poll? Maybe this has been done before. What is everyone's astrological sign? I'm curious to see if we have a majority of any sign or if we are all evenly spread out over the zodiac. Okay, I'll start. Sagittarius of course! (Did I spell this right?) Anyone else? It will help to lighten the load! Katie from the Cape ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 01:07:53 -0400 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: RE: how soon they forget (NJC) > >1. "Public media should not contain explicit or implied > >descriptions of sex acts. >>snip<< > > -- Kenneth Starr, 1987, Sixty Minutes > > interview with Diane Sawyer > > >"Mr. Starr has never appeared on 60 Minutes, as I have told over 50 callers from news organizations ranging from daily newsletters and weekly newspapers, >>snip<< >This is certainly a rumor that was created on the Internet, or by somebody who used the Internet to facilitate its distribution. What?! Next Jann Wenner will be trying to tell us that Studabaker Hoch *can't* really write "The Lord's Prayer" on the head of a pin! John~ NP "Have I Told You Lately That I Love You?" - Elvis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:23:31 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) -Reply from Caped Kate: >>>What is everyone's astrological sign? This is easier to answer then listing my top favorite Joni albums! Put me down as a Capricorn, (01/19). MG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:34:46 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Joni Videos: Attention especially to outside of the US JMDLers, and newbies Hi everyone! I have spent the past 6 months trying to get the Joni video tape trees tranferred into the European format for a reasonable fee, for those that missed out the first time around. Up until now, the cost has been prohibitive- $100 for the 4 hours of video tape!!!! However, my friends in England have 2 different tape decks, (US-friendly, and European-friendly) and have very kindly offered to *try* to dub them for me. I need to know 2 things: 1) How many people still need the Europen (is it PAL) format, who don't have the tapes trees yet? (The cost would be for the tapes and shipping.) PLEASE let me know as soon as you can. 2) Is there ANYONE out there who has these 2 different tape machines, that could transfer them over to the PAL format that would be willing to help out? I don't mind asking my friends to dub a few sets, but many sets would be too much for me to ask them to dub. NOTE: It is *especially* important for someone to come forward now, in case there are sequels to these tape trees in the future. Also, if any newbies, or anyone else that missed out on the video trees wants copies of them, please get in touch with me. If you want more info about these trees, go to: Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:32:58 EDT From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) -Reply Duane and Joni, Scorpio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:41:49 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Random Musings (Very Little JC) Here's the JC for those who only want to read it: As much as I like Mingus, it's extremely frustrating to listen to the disc in my CD-changers in "Random" mode (which I almost always do) and have to hear those annoying "raps" - the music itself is great, and foreshadows what Joni's doing these days, especially vocally, but let's face it, once you've heard them, you really don't want to hear them again...Reprise should re-release the CD without the raps, I mean, after all, they'd sell what, 30 or 40 copies, a windfall! And now, the NJC... What a scream! I come to the computer this AM, download three digests (my day off today), and discover that Chili's back (hence the three digests), but one hour later, in my time anyway, he's gone for good! I'm not a swami, but my bet is he's addicted and will be back again, like Freddy Krueger, Jason, and all those other creatures that kept coming back. Come to think of it, it IS just in time for Halloween... "The Chili That Wouldn't Die"......ooooh, verrrrry scarrryyyy! I'll add that I sent Chili, who always seemed a warm, decent guy to me, a private message to stay, but I also think that the discussion of his staying or going shouldn't become the reason d'etre for this list. Anyway, my point here is to say that I was working on a parody about "Man From Mars" about our little gray cat Lily called "Pain in Arse", but just yesterday she died, I'm not sure how. My 12-year old son, Nathan (not to be confused with Ashara's 12-year son, Nathan) was very heartbroken as he was the one to discover the little dead cat and he had been the one to pick her out from the pound. If you want to do a good deed for the day, send a "pick-me-up" to him at "Btlebom@aol.com". We're going to Carowinds tomorrow in Charlotte, so that should pick up his spirits too. Realize for those of you that have read this far that I'm trusting you with my greatest treasure by giving you my son's e- mail adddress. And now I've REALLY got to get to this housework! I know, I'll quit the list...no, I'll stay, no, I'll quit, no, I'll stay........ Bob M. in SC NP: Cherry Poppin' Daddies, "Come Back To Me" oops, just switched to "Come Down in Time" from Tumbleweed Connection. God, what a gorgeous record! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:02:00 +0000 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - October 24 1994: Tonight, Reprise Records held a Turbulent Indigo record release "meet & greet" at the Ruth Bloom Art Gallery in Santa Monica. The invited guests and the press could view more than 30 of Joni's paintings while hearing the new album tracks on the gallery's sound system. - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:21:11 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: Amelia Sure, give me a chance to get into my Joni archives. The Joni content is really small. There's a rather unflattering shot of Joni being embraced by some inmate. I just thought it was so cool that my hometown paper, which usually writes about 4-H and such, including an article about Joni. > maybe you could post the article (from the local yokel paper)? maybe? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:24:37 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Joni's sad slide down the Billboard charts A very young, mall-chickish type kid just told me she loves Joni Mitchell and that MTV is using snippets of her discussing the Janet Jackson song in station promos. Has anyone seen those promos? > album. How many Mtv addicted teens(Who a year ago would have mercilessly > ridiculed a peer for listen to Joni at all) are going to suddenly > "discover" Joni Mitchell after they hear/see a couple of her songs done by > "cool" contemporary artists like Janet? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:19:58 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: hurricane & joni thanks deb, and of course i'll be patient. it isn't that important but it is interesting, and if you feel like it...once i read a Q mag article--a great interview from i think the CMIARS days (it has since been 'swept away'--boo hoo)--and joni talked at length about her suspicion of Hurricane--the vibe she got from him--and the fact that he dove straight back into crime the minute he was released. Is that a fact, though? I remember talking to someone about it and they were not so sure. anyway--back to the books for me. writing a paper on the sonnets--william's, of course. r ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:20:13 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) -Reply I'm Scorpio, too. Born under a good sign it seems. - -Julius << Duane and Joni, Scorpio >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:24:49 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: RE: Who's Back, Who's Not (sjc) Julie, that sweetheart, said: > "Everything comes and goes......" Well, since the tribe is coming >together again, where in the heck has our SUE MAC been? And I mean that >seriously Mark D. I'm here!!! I'm just swamped between major construction on the Guitar Page, getting everyone's Garden Photos out, working full time and getting my Cornell degree finally, and trying to squeeze in some kind of social and family life! Things get very complicated. Plus the JMDL digests come in tonage these days. I will be Wally's reporter at the Syracuse show on Nov 2 (if my BDTS tickets ever show-I have faith Lord!) so if any jmdlers are going, let me know. The only thing I have to say about list rivalries is that if someone decides to be the peacemaker and not the fussmaker than things usually work out fine. As the old hymn goes, "let there be peace on earth, and let it begin with ME!!" And if you're lucky maybe you'll get some nice roses out of the deal! Hi Marsha! :-) Peace and Joni tickets for all, Love, Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:40:56 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: NJC: Takin' Pictures of Joni From: "Jim L'Hommedieu]" Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:34:29 -0400 At the request of 2 JMDL'ers, here's my receipe for taking pictures at = concerts. The most important thing is to set the exposure manually = because center-weighted meters will be fooled by the pitch-black = background. Buy fast film: 800 speed is my top choice but you can get away with 400 speed. Set the shutter at 1/125 of a second. Use a 200 mm telephoto or zoom if you have one and set it wide open (around f/4 or f/5.6). I have found that the security forces like to keep the aisles clear early on, but don't mind photographers later in the show. Try to get an interesting gesture or facial expression. For example, Margo Timmins was hiding her face behind the mic so I waited till she tilted her head back: Bam. Remember to squeeze the shutter release- don't mash it down. Summary: ASA 800 / 125th of a second / Wide open All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu * Get well, Wally!* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:38:37 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) -Reply Phyliss and Bob (Dylan) - Gemini Mary Grace Valentinsson wrote: > from Caped Kate: > > >>>What is everyone's astrological sign? > > This is easier to answer then listing my top favorite Joni albums! > > Put me down as a Capricorn, (01/19). > > MG - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:42:09 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: Who's Back, Who's Not (sjc) - -----Original Message----- From: Susan McNamara To: joni@smoe.org Cc: Julie Z. Webb Date: Friday, October 23, 1998 2:28 PM Subject: RE: Who's Back, Who's Not (sjc) >And if you're lucky maybe you'll get some nice roses out >of the deal! Hi Marsha! :-) Hi, Sue! No more "big boo hoo's" now that you have checked in! Much Joni! xoxo, Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:48:29 -0400 From: Tortorici@exchange.conference-board.org Subject: favorite list of Joni albums 1) Hejira --Perfection, one of the best albums ever. 2) Blue - Ditto, only more heartbreaking. 3) Court and Spark - Joni at her most accessible, and way too short-lived 4) Don Juan's Reckless Daughter - Underrated due to its length, which is just great for CD 5) Hissing of Summer Lawns - Flawed but brilliant. 6) Ladies of The Canyon - You can't beat the songs, she should re-record it now. 7) Taming The Tiger - A happy Joni, though album is too short and Shorter is too high. 7) Turbulent Indigo - Close to greatness, a bit too dark. 8) For The Roses - Highly enjoyable though some songs are a little too unwieldy. 10) Night Ride Home - Like Court and Spark, but not as fresh. 11) Dog Eat Dog - Very interesting, though Dolby and Steiger make it a little weird. 12) Clouds - Some stunners, but one or two lesser songs. 13) Joni Mitchell(Song to a Seagull) - great debut, a little dated. 14) Chalk Mark In a Rainstorm - some interesting duet choices, not her best songs. 15) Mingus - a noble but not always successful experiment. 16) Wild Things Run Fast - with a few exceptions, the songs aren't very good. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 15:02:57 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) Katie from the Cape wrote: > What is everyone's astrological sign? I'm curious to see > if we have a majority of any sign or if we are all evenly spread out over the > zodiac. Interesting thread idea, but we're going to have to keep track somehow. (Katie?) So far we have, in the order of the traditional Zodiac: Gemini Phyliss and Bob (Dylan) Cancer Lori in San Antonio Scorpio Duane and Joni Julius Sagittarius Katie from the Cape Capricorn MG I'll be curious to see the results, too. Lori in SA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:08:47 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: JM in chicago Joni will be staying at the Ritz-Carlton in Chicago. She is registered under her own name. For those who care . . . ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:30:28 -0600 From: Evian Subject: Joni's "Luba" look Hey, since we have kinda sorta been talking about DED lately, I just had to add that in the Video Tape Trees, there is a performance where Joni sings "Good Friends" on some British show. Is it just me, or does Joni's look in this one remind you of Luba? I have no idea if Luba made any headway in the States, but Canadian listers will probably remember what she looked like.. Also, did you fellow Canucks also notice that the guy who sang with her on this performance looks a lot like Mike Reno from Loverboy? Hehehe, it makes me chuckle to watch it, but of course, DED still remains a fave! Cheers, Evian, who is stuck in some kind of DED time warp lately.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 15:30:52 EDT From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) -Reply Bob The Kingpin Barbearah Capricorn Michael Y. Libra Kenny G Gemini Julie Z. W. Scorpio Myrtle Anderson Gemini ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:44:41 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Tour Info Hello All- I haven't caught up with the digests in the past few days so I'm not sure if anyone has heard this news. I just got off the phone with my friend Bill Dillon who is currently in Woodstock, NY recording. He told me the terrible news that Greg Leisz' father passed away, and he has gone home to be with his mom. Management had called Bill to fill in for him on this tour, but unfortunatly he is already booked for a session in Switzerland and cannot do it. I was just sick about all this. Losing a parent is one of the most horrific things I have ever been through. My heart and prayers go out to Greg and his family. I am also sad that Bill couldn't do the tour cause he is an amazing guitarist (you can check out his work on Sarahs Fumbling album, TT, NRH, the new Tom Cochran, also a new record by Sinead Lohran on Interscope. Hope everyone is well. Peace Michael NP-Love Puts On A New Face ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:44:04 -0600 From: Brett Code Subject: RE: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) -Reply Brett - Sagittarius - Dec 9 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 15:53:44 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) -Reply In a message dated 10/23/98 2:44:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pward@lightspeed.net writes: << Phyliss and Bob (Dylan) - Gemini >> And put me down twice as a Gemini as well -- sun sign and rising sign. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:00:22 EDT From: Wolfebite@aol.com Subject: Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) -Reply doug is a cancer (6/27), who enjoys skydying and macrame in his spare time..... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:53:31 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) Leo with Sagittarius moon and Pisces rising Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:00:27 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: New Poll to Lighten the Load (NJC) Ashara: August 22nd - Leo (nice, kitty, kitty......) Perfect timing for the CO Jonifest, n'est pas? Can't wait to hear all those out-of-tune voices that I love singing Happy Birthday to ME!!!!! :-) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #434 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?