From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #433 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, October 23 1998 Volume 03 : Number 433 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Atlanta@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC: Re: Laugh-In Character *NJC* [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Blue -- the sequel [Rob Jordan ] Re: Blue - the sequel ["philipf" ] Re: Best voice NJC [Helen Gill ] Blame the Victim [catman ] NJC: "I didn't want to hurt you" Bryan Ferry (which I'm often called) [Ch] Re: NJC: "I didn't want to hurt you" Bryan Ferry (which I'm often called) [catman ] RE: SUPRISING PLACEMENT OF CLOUDS ["John T. Folden" ] Re: NJC: "I didn't want to hurt you" [IVPAUL42@aol.com] RE: Blame the Victim ["John T. Folden" ] NJCRe: Blame the Victim [catman ] Re: Blue -- the sequel [Mark or Travis ] Re: NJC: The Bad Penny turns into two cents [LRFye@aol.com] Speaking of NJC (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] NFJC: Sorry I'm so self absorbed---please forgive me [Chilihead2@aol.com] NJC ["Happy The Man" ] Re: Joni's art ["Kakki" ] Re: Blue -- the sequel [Marian Rulewski ] RE: Blue -- the sequel ["John T. Folden" ] Re: Reflections on TTT ["Marsha" ] Fave. Joni And Why [Marilune@aol.com] top 5 joni albums [Diana Duncan ] Re: NFJC: Sorry I'm so self absorbed---please forgive me [Marilune@aol.c] NJC: Jmdl meets "Moonlighting" ["Julie Z. Webb" ] anna & sophia [some millers ] JDML Miles (was Reflections on TTT) - NJC [LRFye@aol.com] Re: Official JMDL recommendation? ["Eric Taylor" ] short & sweet review [some millers ] Re: you almost talked me into it... [Bmcd@aol.com] how soon they forget (NJC) [some millers ] Re: painting/music NJC ["Eric Taylor" ] n'etiquette [Evian ] NJC AND JC [Evian ] Two Free Joni Tickets [Bounced Message ] Mitchell/Dylan Tickets for sale [Bounced Message ] (JC) JM & JB [Marian Rulewski ] Re: NJC AND JC [IVPAUL42@aol.com] RE: how soon they forget (NJC) ["John T. Folden" ] Re: Joni's sad slide down the Billboard charts ["Eric Taylor" ] RE: Joni's sad slide down the Billboard charts ["John T. Folden" > True, but as I referred to earlier, Arte also was the old masher on the park bench offering Walnettos to Ruth Buzzi. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:25:22 +0100 From: Rob Jordan Subject: Re: Blue -- the sequel At 14:21 22/10/98 +0100, philipf wrote: >In a more general sense Blue and Tiger are similar in a diaries >set to music kind of way. It's probably her most personal and >direct record since Blue. She makes no effort to blur the >message in Hejira-speak. Philip, There's a lot of truth in what you say: Blue and TTT express very personal feelings, but I wouldn't say the message was blurred in Hejira. The aspirations of that record are much greater; to reflect the human condition, more than just one person's troubles, which, of course, don't amount to a hill of beans in the great marbled bowling ball of life! One thing about the stripped down lyrics of TTT. They are in keeping with Joni's current passion for standards. It's as if her role models are now Gershwin and Cole Porter, rather than Dylan and Cohen. What do you think? Rob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:02:46 +0100 From: "philipf" Subject: Re: Blue - the sequel Steve wrote : >Got to disagree with that Philip! I don't know your >definition of "musical frontier" but Joni opened up a >whole new world to dulcimer players with Blue. > >All the best, Fair point Steve. but for me thinking back I don't recall Blue knocking me sideways in the way that later records like Court and Spark and Hissing did. I remember hearing Raised On Robbery on John Peel's radio show before I had the record and almost refusing to believe that it was Joni Mitchell. Speaking of the dulcimer, did Blue help to popularise the instrument much in the US ? I didn't see much evidence of it over here, although there was a guy making dulcimers in Co. Kerry for a while in the seventies, maybe still is. But in general I think players found it difficult to compete with the louder sound of other instruments. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:33:59 +1000 (EST) From: Helen Gill Subject: Re: Best voice NJC On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, Jeff & Vicki Harris wrote: > Now, if we're voting on singing only... oh well, now that's a bit easier, there could be no other winner in my opinion and I am sure many others' that the first two to cross the line there are; 1. Don Juan's reckless Daughter (there is something wonderful about her voice in this album- softly husky sort of, best in Otis and Marlena and the Silky Veils of Ardour, but of course all the other songs are amazing aswell!) and 2. Mingus. need I say more. Harlem in Havana is a wonderful Joni voice song bu the rest of the album doesn't match it I don't think. She's sounding very much like DJRDJoni in HIH. well. dog eat dog and clouds are doing miserably aren't they! helly. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:45:43 +0100 From: catman Subject: Blame the Victim Need I add anything? Dear Colin, These are dangerous times we live in ... and with the "Gay Rights Activists" trying to force the homosexual agenda down people's throats, you will see more and more of this. It makes me angry to see the "prosletyzing" being done in our public grade schools ... to our young children. You see, I do believe homosexuality is a choice ... I know this goes against your desires, but I believe God made man and woman as they are for a purpose - to show the relationship between God and Man, between Jesus and Man - the "marriage", not only of flesh but of mind and soul, to become as "one". I believe some people are prone to the "not so gay" lifestyle ... my brother always loved pretty things, he painted, he had a collection of cloth - satins, silks, etc., and many colors. He loved arranging them as a child. I, on the other hand, was out in the woods - studying the birds, animals, damning up streams - building things, and always in trouble! They called me a "tomboy" - I fell out of trees, broke things, and general was a pain in the (_|_). Jim hated hunting, but I loved to go out with my Granddad, Uncle and dad, even if I only got to carry the game home. Jim loved music as a child, he was sensitive, and everybody loved him ... they said "Oh No!" when they saw me coming! Why didn't I become a lesbian? Why did he become homosexual? Our family went through divorce when he was 7 - Dad left, and Mom babied him - I took it on the chin, but would die before I would let anyone know I was hurting! I blame his lifestyle on his "mentor" and his decision to continue later on. If you're desperate for love, and this is what is offered at a time in your life when you have no one else to turn to ... I can easily see how it can happen. But - the choice is still yours, Colin. And it is a difficult choice to live with. The people who intolerant and abusive have much more to answer to than you ever will ... and God doesn't stop loving you because of your choice, and he even loves those who do those things. But one day they (and you and I) will stand before him and give an accounting ... it's not up to us to judge, not even the abusers and bigots. We can choose NOT to live like they do, but we must make a choice even of that. Life is nothing more than a series of choices - how we react to them is what we become. Today we are told there are no wrongs or rights - it all depends on the situation - "Situational Ethics" is forcefed our kids daily in our schools. There is no "truth", there is no foundation, nothing but your own decision, and if you make a decision, it's OK for you. I'm sure those thugs that harrassed you felt they were well within their rights morally. This is termed "Post-Modernism". The PM's don't believe in anything but themselves. However, when they recently erected a huge building with stairs that led nowhere but to blank walls, pillars that supported nothing, windows that opened on another wall ... what do you think they used for a foundation? A very carefully engineered structure that followed all the rules - else their monument to unbelief would have soon fallen down! Without a core foundation to build on, you are adrift in a rudderless boat on an uncharted sea ... you are in danger! Would you entrust your life to an airline pilot that hadn't had any training, that hadn't studied the "rules", and just "thought" he could do OK? Please, Dear Colin, be careful! Don't put yourself in harm's way - - I will be so relieved to hear that you have moved to the country, can't be soon enough. But until then, please keep a low profile. Love, Joan - -- - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:46:23 EDT From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: NJC: "I didn't want to hurt you" Bryan Ferry (which I'm often called) Hi List, After one day I have to say I really don't think I belong here. Just for the record. I have never initiated what I would call a nasty gram. First day back, Marsha sends me a bad penny and I respond with two cents all because I forget to label my post NJC. What was I supposed to do, ignore it? Not my style. I have been called a fag lover and a nigger lover. I don't ignore that either. Hatred and cruelty is just that. A petty post to the list giving me a bad penny is not an act of kindness no matter how small or how small minded. I think this list for the most part is made up of very compassionate and kind people. There are some of those same people who don't want to talk about much else but Joni Mitchell. I personally am not one of them. Joni's my favorite musical artist but I have more to talk about ,discuss and share than her. I want to talk with the people who are drawn to Joni (The Tribe) and I am open to discuss or listen to whatever you want to post unless it is unkind or cruel. If you don't like what I write delete it. Believe me I don't read everything either. Just let me assure I am not a mean or cruel person; but , I am a fighter. I have learned a number of things from some very intelligent discussions on this list. I have also seen that some of us are cruel and petty but I have not seen anyone who is cruel and petty all of the time. Still,. I have no room in my life for cruelty or pettiness without commenting on it. I can however discuss art with a critical eye and that is sometimes mistaken as cruelty by some people who don't understand my intention which is to look at the work not to attack the person. For the most part this list likes everything beautiful. We want the beautiful cyber people saying beautiful cyber things about Joni. When Joni compares herself to Mozart and someone thinks that is silly and unnecessary, many of us don't want to hear it. When someone gets a nastygram to leave the list without ever having had a conversation with that person, the consensus is "Take it off line" we don't want to hear it. It reminds me of the bus driver who let a bully hit someone on the bus and then made the bully and his victim get off the bus. Do you think that solved the problem? - -Chili ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:58:57 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC: "I didn't want to hurt you" Bryan Ferry (which I'm often called) I may be way off beam here, but since when has being a fag lover or being called queer(as in your previous post) been a reason to feel insulted and to come out fighting? I have straight friends(admittedly few) who would wear that badge with pride. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:49:40 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: SUPRISING PLACEMENT OF CLOUDS I have been doing a rough tracking of the best album thread and it appears that clearly Blue and Hejira are rising to the top spots. What has suprised me somewhat is how low the album Clouds is being ranked. Side two is a completely free form groove beginning with The Gallery. Its like one song. Perhaps not enough of the listers have actually listened to this album enough. Late afternoon, reclining position, sunlights last beams leaving prisms on my wall from the crystals in my window, only the sound of the stereo, petting the dog or cat. This is one great album. Of course its hard to rank Jonis albums and everyones taste is different but I think has to be at least in her top 10. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:07:58 -0400 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: SUPRISING PLACEMENT OF CLOUDS Marcel wrote of _Clouds_: <<>> This is not aimed specifically at you, Marcel, but I have to get this off of my chest: Why oh why is it that every (ok, almost every) time someone says they don't like one Joni thing as much as another Joni thing, or [gasp] don't like a Joni thing at all, the assumption is that the fault lies with the *listener*? I might understand this impulse if some Joni neophyte sidled up with a negative comment, but can't we assume that JMDLers are committed enough fans not to form opinions too quickly? All I know is that I've listened to CMIAR many many times now, and I still don't like it. So there! ;-) Whew, glad I got that out! :-) - --Michael, who would also place _Clouds_ rather low NP: Joni at the Gorge ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:23:03 -0400 From: "John T. Folden" Subject: RE: SUPRISING PLACEMENT OF CLOUDS > -----Original Message----- > From: MDESTE1@aol.com > or cat. This is one great album. Of course its hard to rank Jonis > albums and > everyones taste is different but I think has to be at least in > her top 10. I think this has more to do with your personal taste than it does Clouds. Obviously, you like it. If the list is going the way you indicate, then a lot of people are not so fond of it. I haven't done my list yet but I think that Clouds will be fairly close to the bottom. It just doesn't impress me terribly well... sorry. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:37:19 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: "I didn't want to hurt you" In a message dated 10/22/98 8:51:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Chilihead2@aol.com writes: << After one day I have to say I really don't think I belong here. Just for the record. I have never initiated what I would call a nasty gram. First day back, Marsha sends me a bad penny and I respond with two cents all because I forget to label my post NJC. What was I supposed to do, ignore it? Not my style. >> Chili, You can stay or leave, your choice. But you should know that I, and I suspect many others, are losing patience with your continued self-absorbed monologues about whether you do so. When you first started posting, I enjoyed much of what you wrote. As you went on, and on and on, I enjoyed them less and less, to the point that I barely or rarely read them anymore. Do not take this as anything other than what it is -- an honest appraisal that I think you are now boring me. Again, stay or go, but please stop making a public debate about it. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:42:20 -0400 From: "John T. Folden" Subject: RE: Blame the Victim I just have a couple quick comments here... > Dear Colin, > These are dangerous times we live in ... and with the "Gay > Rights > Activists" trying to force the homosexual agenda down people's throats, What EXACTLY is the "Homosexual agenda"? I'm a gay male (born that way, sorry) and I have no idea. The only time I ever here it used is by bigots and wacko religious leaders who claim we're trying to take over the world by kidnapping, molesting and recruiting children. Seems to me the only thing that we want, "we" being those of the human race who happen to love a member of the same sex, are equal rights - something we deserve. > against your desires, but I believe God made man and woman as they are > for a purpose - to show the relationship between God and Man, between > Jesus and Man - the "marriage", not only of flesh but of mind and soul, > to become as "one". If you believe in God, you must also believe he created all living things. Homosexuality exists in nature, in virtually all warm blooded mammals. Heck, even down to the lowly frog. Animals have nothing to go on but instinct, they don't have peer pressure or religion to confuse reality so they simply do what 'feels' right. Some even think that homosexuality is a natural from of birth control for a given species. This does apply rather well to humans as homosexuality occurs at a higher rate in larger populations. Whatever the case, going by nature, it's clearly not simply a choice. Please, also keep in mind that the Bible was written by lowly mortal men who just happen to have a wonderful way with words. These same men were also influence by the time period and the current beliefs about men and nature of that period. > Today we are told there are no wrongs or rights - it all depends > on the > situation - "Situational Ethics" is forcefed our kids daily in our > schools. There is no "truth", there is no foundation, nothing but your > own decision, and if you make a decision, it's OK for you. I'm sure > those thugs that harrassed you felt they were well within their rights > morally. I think you're missing one very big issue here. Homosexuality harms NO ONE. Harrassing, beating, and killing does...To even remotely compare the two is ludicrous at best. John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 02:51:42 +0100 From: catman Subject: NJCRe: Blame the Victim Dear John, I couldn't agree more. I tell you, I am heartiily sick of defending myself and you and my other brothers and sisters. Who the fuck do these people think they are? You know jesus is supposed to have said'many will cal me Lord Lord but I will not hear them' or something like. I think he was talking about people such as the one who wrote that letter to me. What exactly is the difference bewtween her and her ilk and the KKK or a Nazi or over here, The National Front? I am sick to death of self righteous ignorant str8's who not content with making this world a fucking dreadful place to live for anybody but also have the gall to blame us! it is str8's who my the vats majoyity rape and murder and abuse children. it is they who have raped the world, they who have developed weapons of mass destruction. Why? so they can protect their measley fucking stupid machismo. aqnd I am sick and tired of being tolerant and understanding and turning the othet cheek. fuck em. Fuck em Fuck em. Okay so hardly joni content but I am sure you'd allow me to vent rather than sit here feeling sick and scared. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:18:49 -0700 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: Blue -- the sequel Rob Jordan wrote: > > At 14:21 22/10/98 +0100, philipf wrote: > >In a more general sense Blue and Tiger are similar in a diaries > >set to music kind of way. It's probably her most personal and > >direct record since Blue. She makes no effort to blur the > >message in Hejira-speak. > > Philip, > > There's a lot of truth in what you say: Blue and TTT express very personal > feelings, but I wouldn't say the message was blurred in Hejira. The > aspirations of that record are much greater; to reflect the human > condition, more than just one person's troubles I have to say I disagree here. I think Hejira is the most self-involved album Joni has ever recorded. Granted her observations are beautifully expressed and much of what is personal to her is also universal. But Hejira is a very personal expression of Joni's state of mind & personal search for some meaning or purpose specifically in her own life. I don't think it was any great attempt to reflect the human condition at large. DED & HOSL, individual cuts off of NRH, TTT, CMIARS & TI fit more into the category of 'reflections of the human condition' imo. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:17:49 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: The Bad Penny turns into two cents This could be considered something that should be directed privately, but it's got benefit for everyone, so I'm posting it to the JMDL ... Brian wrote to Marsha's attention: > You faulted me for not putting NJC on something that did have some Joni content . Brian, sweet Chilihead, darling ... : ) I'm guessing that you're referring to your post titled "Return of the Chilis." Reading it again, I have to say that it's a delightful post, but ... with all the respect in cyberspace, a post that simply contains Joni's name and nothing else about her does not really qualify as a Joni Content post. I think one of the issues that people take with the use of NJC has to do with post length. It's not nearly as annoying to read a brief (two line) NJC post that wasn't tagged correctly as it is to read through a long post, looking for JC that is not there. Sometimes I hesitate about adding NJC to the subject lines of some of my posts because they often do contain *some* JC. Lately though, I've come to this conclusion about using NJC, and I think it's a good rule to follow: if you're in doubt, DO!!! Remember that the 50 (or so) of us who post regularly probably do read most of everything posted here, but sometimes there isn't enough time to keep up with all the posts. And the other 450 members who post infrequently (or not at all) may have reasons not posting other than bashfulness -- like lack of time. It is with consideration for everyone on the JMDL that we ask that the NJC tag be used. Speaking of lengthy vs. short posts, I've already broken the rule with this post, but another of the rules of mailing list n'etiquette is that posts be kept brief. Just a thought to remember in the future ... Lori, with her two cents San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:31:19 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Speaking of NJC (NJC) MDESTE1 used this subject line: SUPRISING PLACEMENT OF CLOUDS and did it ever stand out!!! Maybe that's the ticket ... seriously, not kidding at all ... perhaps we should switch to ALL CAPS for JC posts, and use lower case for NJC posts. Today when I was home for lunch, just before I read Chili's "Return" post, I almost sent a post *complaining* about the lack of NJC lately ... I ended up deleting it, and I guess that's a good thing! Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:35:51 EDT From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: NFJC: Sorry I'm so self absorbed---please forgive me Paul, My only purpose in life is to make life interesting for you. I am sorry I have let you and so many others down. I am afterall simply a self absorbed narcissist with a fixation on my own navel. Please forgive me. I will try harder to be more like you. I am fascinated by every word you write and only hope that one day I too can be as perfect. Sorry again for boring you. Never my intention. People have been asking where is the old chili. The one who just puts up with all the nastygrams. He was too nice. I had to kill him off for his own good. - -Chili's bad boy but equally self absorbed twin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:12:15 -0500 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: NJC Were the writers of SOAP resurrected and now posting to the JMDL. I have set this list to Opera music. Oh the tragedy of it all. Shit ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:02:22 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni's art Sherrie wrote: >I love these discussions about Joni's painting. >I'm reading them all and gearing up for a comment or two. I love them, too! (well, duh..;-) Again, I hope that many of us here will get to see more of them on the PPV special so we can later have more to discuss more than what is shown on the TTT booklet or on her earlier albums. Some of the as-yet-unseen paintings are innovative and very original, IMO. I appreciate everyone's comments - they have been very thought-provoking to me. I do feel a stab every time the "mediocre" label is placed on Joni's paintings, but do understand where those comments come from because I used to have some of that same sentiment toward her art myself - until I saw them "live". I do think the blatant desire to make "pretty paintings" in this day and age, while perhaps "retro", could also be seen as a little revolutionary. There should always be room for the visually pretty paintings - they express joy and love and the beauty of life. To me, they most certainly have as much validity as the art which is on the cutting edge of the sphere of imagination. Kakki NP: Judgement of the Moon and Stars ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:12:58 +1000 From: Marian Rulewski Subject: Re: Blue -- the sequel Okay, I'll bite. To me, TTT is more of a sequel to C&S than Blue but there's no accounting for taste. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:25:55 -0400 From: "John T. Folden" Subject: RE: Blue -- the sequel > -----Original Message----- > From: Marian Rulewski > Okay, I'll bite. > > To me, TTT is more of a sequel to C&S than Blue but there's no > accounting for taste. I won't bite (unless you ask nicely) but... Honestly, I can't really see it being a sequel to either one, completely. The subject matter of the lyrics leans more towards Blue, I guess...but musically it doesn't seem to fit in with either one, mood or otherwise. Maybe it's a step child of Blue and Mingus. ;-P ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:35:37 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: Reflections on TTT - -----Original Message----- From: Marian Russell To: joni@smoe.org Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 3:43 PM Subject: Reflections on TTT >I totally love the packaging. I feel like Joni has shared a lot of >herself this time. We now know what her four cats look like, and >Donald, and isn't that Kilauren in Ideal/Idol/Idyll? About Ideal/Idol/Idyll: Yes, Yes, Marian! I have said this since I saw the giant silk screen backdrop at the concerts. And the painting up close shows a shorter-haired beauty, that I think looks more like Kilauren than Joni. The profile is not Joni's... I also think that these paintings in print are nothing compared to the color contrasts, luminance (sp?),brushstrokes, and light reflections that are present as one views these from a few feet away. This is truly the only basis in which to judge her works. All prints appear faded to me compared to the actual paintings. The photos I made of some of these pictures at the Burbank taping are brighter than the prints on the CD. I guess "depth" is the word I am looking for that you cannot judge in her artwork as it is presented in 2D format on tiny CD's and even in the StarArt Book or prints and posters... >Now I should go pack or I'll be up until after midnight! Bon Voyage, Marian. You have traveled more jmdl-miles than anyone this year! Have a terrific time in Detroit and get some fab photos for us to view. Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:55:09 EDT From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Fave. Joni And Why the top two on my list were Blue and Court and Spark. really they are interchangeable just 'cos i they're both so important to me. as other joni albums really don't play that deeply into my life (WTRF, DED, TI, and TTT too), Blue and Court and Spark are such amazing, incredible, heartbreaking and beautiful albums. they are part of my subconcious now. they are embedded in my brain, no matter how i am rattled about by fugazi and nirvana. i just don't listen as much as i used to. really, the albums i listen to most now are STAS, Blue, C&SS, and FTR. Those are classic, wonderful albums that will never be dated. i will never sell my soul over those. it's just that they've served as mamas for me back in griffin daze and now it's hard to listen without getting that sticky feeling. but i do listen and i do sing and i do think they're amazing. and i'm very proud (and i don't CARE what joni says) to place them right alongside kurt and co. and dave and co. and elliott and harvey danger. - -mariana np: nirvana, -nevermind- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:11:43 -0500 From: Diana Duncan Subject: top 5 joni albums I don't usually put my voice in on "best or worse" because I think it so subjective, However, I had to chuckle when I saw some of the dates for when we heard our fist Joni album. I'm with Steve Dulson. It was 1969, I was 19 and a freshman in college. I bought Clouds before STAS. And like someone who mentioned about their sister singing the Judy Collins version of Both Sides Now, I bought J.C.'s Wildflowers before I'd heard of J.M. I wish I could remember the time or place I first listened to each album. But I can't. My daughter says I'm getting senile. So add my votes as of today: 1. TTT 2. Blue 3. Ladies of the Canyon 4. The Hissing of Summer Lawns 5. Clouds The early albums are such a part of me I can't deny them! One more day and I'm off to Chicago. Looking forward to seeing my fellow JMDLER's there. See ya at Waves, Fred. Diana (one doty cat lover) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:47:53 EDT From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Re: NFJC: Sorry I'm so self absorbed---please forgive me In a message dated 10/22/98 7:43:44 PM, Chilihead2@aol.com wrote: >My only purpose in life is to make life interesting for you. I am sorry I have >let you and so many others down. I am afterall simply a self absorbed >narcissist with a fixation on my own navel. Please forgive me. I will try >harder to be more like you. I am fascinated by every word you write and only >hope that one day I too can be as perfect. Sorry again for boring you. Never >my intention. People have been asking where is the old chili. The one who just >puts up with all the nastygrams. He was too nice. I had to kill him off for >his own good. here we go again..... - -mariana NP: beck on the radio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:47:08 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: NJC: Jmdl meets "Moonlighting" At 05:02 PM 10/22/98 -0000, Steven Blue wrote: >wolfgaarde, inc, a private investigation corporation, yes we do divorce, we >are cheaper than attorney's (smile) but for a fellow list member, advice is >free, write me at : >blues@sgi.net or call me at 412-221-5584 Steven, Cooool! I always wanted to work as a gum shoe! When can I start? - JulieZW, no Cybill Shepherd ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:58:28 -0400 (EDT) From: some millers Subject: anna & sophia Don't remember our beloved JM's exact words at the moment, but distinctly recall her identifying the "Sophia" of TTT with the meaning attached to the name -- i.e., wisdom -- in one of the radio interviews available on Wally's wonderful website. Thus, it stands to reason that she likely invoked "Anna" in the same way. According to my sources, the name Anna is associated with grace. Oh ye of little faith, clearly, SIQUOMB. Feeling $0.02 better now... thanks. Hasta luego- Paul n.p. - Dave Alvin, Museum of Heart (and eagerly awaiting the All Souls/El Dia de los Muertos show in Syracuse!) >Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:57:44 +0100 (BST) >From: Howard Wright >Subject: TTT - comments on title track > >I did agree with David's comments about "Anna". Since we have no clue >about who this is, the line is a little empty. I used to hear the line as >"honour" - which I thought made sense, but since the lyric sheets have >"Anna" I guess this should be right ... > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:00:16 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: JDML Miles (was Reflections on TTT) - NJC Marsha wrote: > Bon Voyage, Marian. You have traveled more jmdl-miles than anyone this year! Now there's a concept to consider: JMDL Miles! Redeemable for JM.com and JMDL gear! (Like Marlboro or Merit does -- only BETTER!) We need to get a catalog going ... let's see: JM Internet Community shirts (denim or tee) My Other Car Is A Big Yellow Taxi bumperstickers Sitting On My Groceries Cookbook What else? Have a wonderful trip, Marian! Lori, amuzing herself in San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:08:32 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Official JMDL recommendation? Les wrote: >Just for the record.... it is not an official JMDL recommendation that >you blast someone privately rather than be impolite on the list. The >recommendation is not to blast anyone at all but rather to engage in a >healthy debate without resorting to personal insults. Beyond that, if >one still feels like they absolutely HAVE to blast (ie: personally insult) >someone, I prefer it be done off-list. In my opinion, no good can come >from two people calling each other names in public. >Also, I disagree that the above policy encourages private "nastygrams." >All that is being encouraged is that people talk about "the life, art, >music, and times of Joni Mitchell Now ain't that the truth! Thank's for that great advice, not only for JMDL, but getting along in life in general. Group email is such a strange new way of communicating for which I have a love/hate relationship. I've sent & received a few private & public nastygrams & all it has ever accomplished is making everyone involved feel bad. Some of it was intended as humor but is rarely read that way, no matter how many emoticons are used. I do believe it is important to say "Kiss my ass" every now & then (as you've probably noticed). But it is even more important to know when you've been over-critical & admit you were at least half wrong. There is a fine line between debating & fighting which is drawn at name-calling in my pompous opinion. But, then, who am I to give advice? Must be the Irish blood, E.T. NP: Borderline ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:17:39 -0400 (EDT) From: some millers Subject: short & sweet review Today's edition of Metroland, which claims to be "the capital district's alternative newsweekly", includes this great little gem under its regular column titled "Heavy Rotation" (wherein local music folk tell what new CD's are geting the spins): Note: This installment comes from Walter Curley, the Ass't. Mgr. of a suburban store. Joni Mitchell Taming the Tiger (Reprise) The CD that I can't seem to get enough of lately is Taming the Tiger by Joni Mitchell. It's been four years since her brilliant Turbulent Indigo, and Mitchell's latest is well worth the wait. On this new disc, she covers topics ranging from love, both lost and found, to the state of the music industry today, and her lyrics never once sound cliched or tired. For someone who has been doing this for the better part of 30 years, Joni continues to deliver fresh, intelligent -- and in this case, atmospheric -- masterpieces. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:24:44 EDT From: Bmcd@aol.com Subject: Re: you almost talked me into it... In a message dated 98-10-20 07:52:52 EDT, you write: << And for god's sake, don't yawn! joejoejoejoejoejoejoe >> Yes, you've got to love it! the humor, the diversity, the sharing of ideas and opinions, the opportunity to love joni Out Loud without your "friends" treating you like your a mental case (and believe me I hardly ever mention her anymore; adoration "takes so much shit". Well, I will say, with the signed poster of TTT hanging in my tea room I get plenty of opportunity to plug joni's work, both most recent and for the last 20 years. A couple of days ago, someone said "Is that THE Joni Mithcell from Woodstock?", Well, he got me started. I tell people, "don't get me started". Yours in jonispirit, Karen Mc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:28:40 -0400 (EDT) From: some millers Subject: how soon they forget (NJC) The quotes below were passed along to me by my nephew. Don't know where he came by them, and I haven't yet had time to validate them myself, but thought some of you may find them of interest. If these are indeed for real, "what happened to this place?"... >FAMOUS QUOTES >In The end, it's all politics >=============================== > >1. "Public media should not contain explicit or implied >descriptions of sex acts. Our society should be purged >of the perverts who provide the media with pornographic >material while pretending it has some redeeming social >value under the public's 'right to know!'." > -- Kenneth Starr, 1987, Sixty Minutes > interview with Diane Sawyer > > >2. From the editorial page of the Arkansas Gazette > > "Yes, the president should resign. He's lied to the >American people time and time again and betrayed their >trust. Since he has admitted guilt, there's no >reason to put the American people through an impeachment. >He will serve absolutely no purpose in finishing out >his term. The only possible solution is for the president >to save some dignity and resign." > >This is a quote during the Nixon investigation >by William Jefferson Clinton. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:31:22 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: painting/music NJC Thomas Ross wrote: >[sorry about double letters on this keyboaard] >'i'm not really a folk singer, i come from 40s music'.. .. . >i'm not really a musician, i'm a painteer' these may seem >like dodges unless you consider whitman >' do i contradict myself? very well, i contraadict myself; >i contain multitudes '... Your wonderful letter made me howl, Tom! Partly because I have the exact opposite problem with my laptop(it constantly misses letters). Walt Whitman is the one poet that blows Joni away! I'd sure love to hear her set *This Compost* to music. I can't imagine Joni could change one word. E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:36:51 -0600 From: Evian Subject: n'etiquette Hi. I agree with Sherrie that the whole etiquette thread is just a brushfire waiting to happen, but I just have to say this: Posting private email IS bad n'etiquette... My friend was on a list, and someone posted a private email my friend sent... She was horribly embarrassed since it was personal, and the person who did the posting was removed from the list. However, my friend was mortified, and ended up leaving the list. So, I think it is a general rule that posting private email is an unwritten net no-no. Anyway, just sharing my friend's experience with you all. Evian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:43:13 -0600 From: Evian Subject: NJC AND JC ARGH!!! I have yet again forgot to label NJC on the last one!!! Geez! Anyway, I just have a question about NJC... Is something NJC if it has absolutely no Joni content, or is it still NJC if it has a little Joni thrown in there? Like, is news about say, Chuck or Don considered NJC? Sorry, I know I am dense at times, but I am never sure that if I post something sorta relating to Joni if it is JC or NJC. However, I DO believe that the JC and NJC are great to have, especially when there is a thread I have no interest in, or know nothing about. Again, sorry for forgetting to use these labels more often! Evian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:04:14 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Two Free Joni Tickets From: Chilihead2@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:37:20 EDT Hi, I am after one day leaving again. This time for good. I regret that there are just too many nuts falling from the tree to stay with the tribe in cyberspace. I know I will be passing on opportunities to meet new friends. If you want to chat just e-mail me. I am still on the NY list. We are still JMDL just in person only. May you all be well and happy, - -Chili :-) PS. Les thanks again. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:06:33 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Mitchell/Dylan Tickets for sale From: "McWilliams" Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:02:33 -0500 Hello Joni Fans, I've subscribed to this list the last two weeks and all I can say is all of you are crazy. So, with that theme in mind, I'm offering two extra tickets to the Joni Mitchell/Bob Dylan concert in Minneapolis on Friday, October 23 at 7 p.m.. These are 6th row main floor tickets! I'll sell these at face value to anyone that is the first to give me: the best reason they deserve buying these excellent seats. Deadline for this e-mail is Friday at 10:00 am central standard time. The winner(s) will be contacted via e-mail or phone by 12:00 noon at the latest. Happy writing! Steve e-mail: steve_mc@centuryinter.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:03:16 +1000 From: Marian Rulewski Subject: (JC) JM & JB Could someone please fill me in on the details regarding the fight?? argument??? whatever between Joni and Jackson Browne. I keep picking up bits and pieces but don't seem to get all the details. Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 02:10:33 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC AND JC In a message dated 10/23/98 1:48:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, evian@sk.sympatico.ca writes: << n the last one!!! Geez! Anyway, I just have a question about NJC... Is something NJC if it has absolutely no Joni content, or is it still NJC if it has a little Joni thrown in there? >> That is what SJC (some Joni content) is for. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 02:23:10 -0400 From: "John T. Folden" Subject: RE: how soon they forget (NJC) > >1. "Public media should not contain explicit or implied > >descriptions of sex acts. Our society should be purged > >of the perverts who provide the media with pornographic > >material while pretending it has some redeeming social > >value under the public's 'right to know!'." > > -- Kenneth Starr, 1987, Sixty Minutes > > interview with Diane Sawyer > > "Mr. Starr has never appeared on 60 Minutes, as I have told over 50 callers from news organizations ranging from daily newsletters and weekly newspapers, on up to Time, Newsweek, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, the Chicago -- I mean, you name it," said 60 Minutes spokesman Kevin Tedesco. "A lot of the big ones have called on this. But he never appeared on 60 Minutes. This is certainly a rumor that was created on the Internet, or by somebody who used the Internet to facilitate its distribution. I am still getting calls." -- 60 Minutes spokesman Kevin Tedesco ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 02:22:32 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Joni's sad slide down the Billboard charts James, the Conspiracy Chronicler, wrote: >Here we go again... >Oct. 17: TTT debuts at #75 on the hot 200 album charts >Oct. 24: TTT slips 37 points to #112... >I am not surprized that TTT is sliding down the charts so quickly. >How could songs like "No Apology," "Facelift," "Taming the Tiger" >and even the unfortunate "Lead Balloon" compare and compete with >the likes of Sheryl Crow- who seems to own Billboard and VH1... Perhaps if Joni did a video with the Flying Elvis' or had an affair with Madonna mainstream America would suddenly be real interested. But I kinda like Joni's cult status. Pop approval tends to ruin great artists (have you heard U2's *Pop* yet?) But Bonnie deserves every second of her 15 minutes & so very much more! We should test the power of Joni's Internet following & have a *Buy TTT for Xmas Gifts Day* (say Nov. 26) & see if we can't move it up to #10... %~@ E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 02:35:00 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: how soon they forget (NJC) In a message dated 10/23/98 2:28:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jtfolden@erinet.com writes: << This is certainly a rumor that was created on the Internet, or by somebody who used the Internet to facilitate its distribution. I am still getting calls." -- 60 Minutes spokesman Kevin Tedesco >> Once again goes to show that there is no truth on the Internet. This is the easiest medium ever created to deceive and misinform people. I shudder to think what Goebels would have been able to do on this medium. And, by the way, there was a "chain letter' type of thing a month or two ago about some ridiculous promise by Walt Disney Jr. that he would give away free passes to DisneyWorld if the letter made it to a certain number of I-net addresses. I know there is a Roy Disney and I know there once was a Walt Disney, but I don't think there is a Walt Disney Jr. still living, if there ever was one. Comedians have pointed out that Evian is Naive spelled backward, but I wonder if anyone notices how similar gullibles is to Goebels! Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:40:36 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: how soon they forget (NJC) Paul wrote: > And, by the way, there was a "chain letter' type of thing a month or two >ago about some ridiculous promise by Walt Disney Jr. that he would give >away free passes to DisneyWorld if the letter made it to a certain >number of I-net addresses. I know there is a Roy Disney and I know there once was a Walt Disney, but I don't think there is a Walt Disney Jr. still living, if there ever was one. Aiyyy - that one was actually sent around my law firm by one of the managers, who stated helpfully to us that it had been checked out and was for real! I thought of clueing her in but it was so embarrassed for her, I just deleted it. Not only was there never a Walt Disney, Jr., but the "free" passes to Disneyworld were supposedly being jointly offered in conjunction with Microsoft as a promotion/marketing "email test." Scary to think that people in law firms would fall for this stuff. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 02:57:09 -0400 From: "John T. Folden" Subject: RE: Joni's sad slide down the Billboard charts > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Taylor > We should test the power of Joni's Internet following & have > a *Buy TTT > for Xmas Gifts Day* (say Nov. 26) & see if we can't move it up to #10... I remember hearing that it was being delayed so the record company could better promote it. I haven't seen a whole lot of promotion as of yet. I tend to think that it would have done much better if it had been released when originally intended... ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #433 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?