From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #432 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, October 22 1998 Volume 03 : Number 432 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Atlanta@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Title track of TTT ["Don Rowe" ] Re: NJC flip side of the cheese grater [PMcfad@aol.com] Re: Blue -- the sequel ["Steven A. Blue" ] Today in Joni History - October 23 [Today in Joni History ] Ad for An Evening with Joni [DKasc13293@aol.com] Re: NJC flip side of the cheese grater [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Return of the Chilis [Chilihead2@aol.com] Re: Return of the Chilis ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: NJC flip side of the cheese grater [PMcfad@aol.com] (NJC)Re: Return of the Chilis ["Marsha" ] Re: Joni vs. SOHO [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: NJC flip side of the cheese grater [Ashara@aol.com] Re: Cookbook [Marian Russell ] NJC: Etiquette [Chilihead2@aol.com] Official JMDL recommendation? [Les Irvin ] painting/music [Thomas Ross ] Re: NJC: Etiquette [LRFye@aol.com] Re: Joni's art [sherrie.good@chronicle.com] Reflections on TTT [Marian Russell ] Re: Return of the Chilis ["Steven A. Blue" ] Re: NJC: Etiquette [Mark Domyancich ] favorite albums [Howard Motyl ] Re: Reflections on TTT [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Return of the Chilis (and the ric) [RickieLee1@aol.com] Re: Return of the Chilis (and the ric) ["Steven A. Blue" ] Re: NJC: Etiquette [Chilihead2@aol.com] (NJC + Emily Post Posting) Welcome Back All! ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Return of the Chilis (and the ric) [kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant)] "An Evening with Joni' on TV [sherrie.good@chronicle.com] Re: NJC: Etiquette [Chilihead2@aol.com] Who's Back, Who's Not NJC ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Dulcimers (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] NJC: The Bad Penny turns into two cents [Chilihead2@aol.com] Re: (NJC + Emily Post Posting) Welcome Back All! ["Steven A. Blue" ] Favorite Joni Top 5 [Bounced Message ] NJC: Re: Laugh-In Character *NJC* [Bounced Message ] Joni's Tour [Wally Breese ] NJC "Professional Jealousy" ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Re: "An Evening with Joni' on TV [kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant)] Joni's sad slide down the Billboard charts... [jw1327 ] new wave of hostility? NJC, JMDLC [sherrie.good@chronicle.com] RE: new wave of hostility? NJC, JMDLC [Brett Code ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:46:42 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Title track of TTT Maybe the oversight of the proofreader wasn't pointed out to >anyone until the initial run was done--and all of those books *had* to go out with the original shipment. Until there is a second pressing of the book, "peddle" will remain. Cool! So those of us who acted quickly will have the JM equivalent of the Beatles "dead baby" cover! So what if the pun is specious ... it's a great rumor, and certainly no more damaging than the "worst album" misrepresentation of the Rolling Stone review of HOSL. I say we spread it far and wide, jack up the value of our TTTs and cash in. Oh wait, that means I'd have to sell my copy ... never mind. :-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:52:52 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC flip side of the cheese grater there is a little shack on the north end of tybee island in georgia called the north beach bar and grill. working at this shack is a waiter who is about 50 years old and has a deep dark tan and white hair. his trade mark is a filthy old 'Cornell U' hat that he wears constantly. i went there once with a friend who has a daughter at cornell and is a frequent of this beach grill. he brought with him a new clean 'cornell u' hat for the waiter. the waiter smiled when it was given to him and said....' thank you, that is very nice, but why don't you keep it since your daughter goes there. i found my hat in my wife's house. it was her ex-husbands hat and he must have left it there by mistake. i tried it on once just for fun, and you know....i kind'a liked the way it fit. don't you think fits me real good?.' true story. pj ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:49:39 -0000 From: "Steven A. Blue" Subject: Re: Blue -- the sequel Very interesting outlook. I've always had a special place in my heart when it came to "Blue". It really touched home on all fronts...... - -----Original Message----- From: philipf To: joni@smoe.org Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 1:27 PM Subject: Re: Blue -- the sequel > > >Deb wrote: > >>Philip said, in his list of bests: > >>> 4. Taming the Tiger (Blue - the sequel) > >>Interesting! Would you care to elaborate? > > >I was mainly thinking about the resolution of the Little Green >mystery in songs like Stay In Touch and Best To You, and >what a beautiful ending (or new beginning) that is. > >In a more general sense Blue and Tiger are similar in a diaries >set to music kind of way. It's probably her most personal and >direct record since Blue. She makes no effort to blur the >message in Hejira-speak. > >Similarly both records are self produced and no new musical >frontiers were opened up on either record. > >Philip > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:00:00 +0000 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - October 23 1994: Today the Calgary Herald publishes an article about Joni's recent Toronto press conference, saying "Joni Mitchell smiles as she holds up a cardboard human ear, which she's just pulled out of a copy of her new CD, Turbulent Indigo. "Isn't this great?" she says, looking as happy as a kid who has just found a swell toy in a box of Cap'n Crunch. "I wanted to put one in every copy of the album, but the record company told me it would cost too much money. So I had to settle for just a few thousand promotional copies." Read the article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/cal-herald-941023.htm Also today, New York Newsday's "FanFare" section runs an article promoting Turbulent Indigo. Joni responds to a question about Sire of Sorrow, saying "I had a lot of grief, and much was taken from me in terms of health and money in the ‘80s. I was robbed by everyone who could get their hands on my money. They took some. It became fashionable in the ‘80s. And I had a lot of illness and a lot of bad doctors. You know, so I had that experience. I had enough experience to tackle Job." Read the article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/nynd941023.htm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:02:18 EDT From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Ad for An Evening with Joni An Evening With Joni has been on a constant loop of pay-per-view channels here as of the beginning of this week. Cuts of Woodstock and something else. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:01:30 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC flip side of the cheese grater In a message dated 10/22/98 1:58:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PMcfad@aol.com writes: << the waiter smiled when it was given to him and said....' thank you, that is very nice, but why don't you keep it since your daughter goes there. i found my hat in my wife's house. it was her ex-husbands hat and he must have left it there by mistake. i tried it on once just for fun, and you know....i kind'a liked the way it fit. don't you think fits me real good?.' true story. pj >> Sorry, as an ex-husband who misses the home he bought before he was married as much anything in it, I find no humor in this anecdote. It's certainly no antidote. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:08:57 EDT From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: Return of the Chilis Hi BTW Yes, it's official Mrs. C and I are JMDLers in cyberspace once again. I still disagree completely with the JMDL's official recommendation that you blast someone privately rather than be impolite on the list. That is encouraging people to send nastygrams while hiding behind a rule that says I told you to go fuck yourself but you can't tell anybody. I turned 107 last Friday and got some Calphalon, and stuff and a Birthday cake with a computer scanned picture of me with a pumpkin when I was one. I was thinking one of these would be great at the next Jonifest (not me Joni of course) LOL!. We could have our Joni and eat her too. I also got an ice cream maker and made the BEST icecream I ever had using our own homegrown strawberries. I am trying to make a party favor for the people who are going to the NY show, that is if I don't have a back operation in the next week. I have been offered that or a morphine pump and I said if I am going to be a slave to the poppy it will be in a den in southeast asia in silk pajamas on a silk cushion. I am not going to end up as a broken gingerbread man. So getting back to the party favor, I am thinking of making a dragonfly cookie in a small mason jar. But then it's a bitch to carry these into the city and money is now getting tight since I have entered long term disability. I may have to ask for reimbursement which I hate to do. I never charge people for things I give them only things I sell them. So, if there is enough interest, I might make them and just ask for a contribution to cover my costs and shipping if you want one mailed. I was inspired by two dragonflies who were mating and flying in and out of my writing room yesterday. Now that is what I call making love! :-) Anyways barring the aforementioned medicaments, we are going to NY for Halloween with a friend who's not on the list but is a good friend indeed. Michael P was our roomie but cannot make the trip. Michael we'll miss you!! We are planning to go in for Halloween. So if anyone wants to meet at our hotel to start the party let us know. We're coming in for the parade!!!! Also, if anyone is coming this way Danbury, CT I- 84 and has room for 3 stowaways without a lot of luggage please let us know. May you all be well and happy, - -Chili :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:22:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: Return of the Chilis On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 Chilihead2@aol.com wrote: > I still disagree completely with the JMDL's official recommendation that you > blast someone privately rather than be impolite on the list. That is It isn't just a JMDL thing. Posting private email to a list is a Netiquette Rule of biblical proportions. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:30:03 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Blue - the sequel Philip said: >> 4. Taming the Tiger (Blue - the sequel) >> Similarly both records are self produced and no new musical >> frontiers were opened up on either record. Got to disagree with that Philip! I don't know your definition of "musical frontier" but Joni opened up a whole new world to dulcimer players with Blue. All the best, ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:29:02 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC flip side of the cheese grater In a message dated 98-10-22 14:09:56 EDT, you write: << Sorry, as an ex-husband who misses the home he bought before he was married as much anything in it, I find no humor in this anecdote. It's certainly no antidote. Paul I >> no no, i'm sorry. i genuinely did not mean to offend you or anyone. i was just pleased with the guys ability to make good with the present, you know...with all its complexities. true loss is a terrible thing, and ive seen its ugly head too. i hope you find a warmer, happier house than any you've had so far. ok...i'll go back to counting votes now. i do best when im quiet anyway. pj ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:33:19 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: (NJC)Re: Return of the Chilis - -----Original Message----- From: Gerald Notaro (LIB) To: Chilihead2@aol.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Return of the Chilis >On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 Chilihead2@aol.com wrote: > >> I still disagree completely with the JMDL's official recommendation that you >> blast someone privately rather than be impolite on the list. That is > >It isn't just a JMDL thing. Posting private email to a list is a >Netiquette Rule of biblical proportions. And labeling your posts with NJC is being considerate to the collective... Marsha, transferring The Bad Penny Award from mr. jones to brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:33:26 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni vs. SOHO In a message dated 10/22/98 1:29:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Chilihead2@aol.com writes: << My critique has been based on some of the greatest artists of this and the last century. When I go to the galleries in SOHO, Joni's work is more appealing than many of the paintings I see. >> Chili, I agree. SoHo has become one big boutique, with art work to match. Very disappointing. Terry P.S. Welcome back! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:31:02 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC flip side of the cheese grater PJ, As one who has been divorced twice, and seen both sides of the cheese grater, as it were, I especially loved this story. It proves that sometimes people can move beyond the bitterness that divorce often brings, and can let go enough to even wear an old Cornell hat of an ex-partner. It goes way beyond the fighting over material things that inevitably comes with the dissolution of a partnership. This waiter sounds like someone many of us could learn from. Hugs, Ashara In a message dated 10/22/98 1:59:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PMcfad@aol.com writes: << there is a little shack on the north end of tybee island in georgia called the north beach bar and grill. working at this shack is a waiter who is about 50 years old and has a deep dark tan and white hair. his trade mark is a filthy old 'Cornell U' hat that he wears constantly. i went there once with a friend who has a daughter at cornell and is a frequent of this beach grill. he brought with him a new clean 'cornell u' hat for the waiter. the waiter smiled when it was given to him and said....' thank you, that is very nice, but why don't you keep it since your daughter goes there. i found my hat in my wife's house. it was her ex-husbands hat and he must have left it there by mistake. i tried it on once just for fun, and you know....i kind'a liked the way it fit. don't you think fits me real good?.' true story. pj >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:51:47 +0100 From: Marian Russell Subject: Re: Cookbook On Thurs, 22 Oct 1998 08:44:05 Phyliss Ward wrote: > Hey Marian... Are we going to get the cookbook project going? : - ) I have been in a computer course for the last week and a half. In retrospect, I was right to feel very relieved that JMDLers decided to make the cookbook a Christmas rather than a birthday present for Joni, because there is no way in hell that I could have managed doing anything on this project in the last couple of weeks. Tomorrow I'm flying to the USA for about 10 days - will return to my office on Nov. 3. I will send out a message asking people for their recipes after I return and answer my accumulated email. I'd rather people wait until I return to Vienna to send me their recipes so that I don't come home to a full and unmanageable mailbox. It has been hard enough keeping up with my regular cyber-friends while attending this course and I'd like to approach the cookbook project with a clean mailbox. I'd like to limit the time frame for submissions to a maximum of two weeks. I will try to process the recipes as I receive them so that I should be finished shortly after the end of that period and I'll pass the lot on to someone who can put it all together and make it really beautiful in a printed form for Joni. I'll take care of creating the initial web pages, though I may ask for help on this at some point. I'm not that great at imagining graphical stuff to jazz up web pages, so maybe someone could help me with that. Les said we can put the cookbook in the Gallery. We need to decide about protecting it or not - how much of our bios we want to share with the whole world or not. The bios submitted so far can be found at: http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/jmdlbios.htm http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/jmdlbios1.htm I'm kind of in a rush right now - just throwing out things for all to think about. If a discussion goes on about this while I'm away, I'd appreciate it if someone could keep track of any decisions so that I can know them when I get back without having to wade through all the digests first. Best wishes to all! Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:47:38 EDT From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: NJC: Etiquette Hi Jerry and all my fellow listers, I will not accept cruelty and cruel intolerance whether it comes to me privately or publicly. I was the kind of kid that if you called someone queer or nigger or whatever else mean thing you could think of "like get out of here we don't want you playing here". I said something back LOUDLY and sometimes got hurt. Someone tried to censor my poetry last year. They are very sorry they did. Someone asked if I was queer because I was wearing a red ribbon. They are very sorry they did. The point is these were all private communications. I made them public and that I am not sorry for it . These people were embarrassed because their nastiness became public. I would be sorry for myself if I didn't make those things public. Hatred and intolerance is dangerous and has we have seen recently with the murder of the Wyoming student it is deadly. So if you are saying that we can send hate mail, nastygrams and we're supposed to keep these all to ourselves, and this is etiquette? Not the etiquette on which mine is predicate! - -Chili ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:53:36 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Official JMDL recommendation? At 12:08 PM 10/22/98 , Chili wrote: >I still disagree completely with the JMDL's official recommendation that you >blast someone privately rather than be impolite on the list. That is >encouraging people to send nastygrams while hiding behind a rule that says I >told you to go fuck yourself but you can't tell anybody. Just for the record.... it is not an official JMDL recommendation that you blast someone privately rather than be impolite on the list. The recommendation is not to blast anyone at all but rather to engage in a healthy debate without resorting to personal insults. Beyond that, if one still feels like they absolutely HAVE to blast (ie: personally insult) someone, I prefer it be done off-list. In my opinion, no good can come from two people calling each other names in public. Also, I disagree that the above policy encourages private "nastygrams." All that is being encouraged is that people talk about "the life, art, music, and times of Joni Mitchell." I have no control nor jurisdiction over anyone's private email nor over how they choose to express their anger. Les - out of hiding to split a few hairs... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:07:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Ross Subject: painting/music [sorry about double letters on this keyboaard] 'i'm not really a folk singer, i come from 40s music'.. .. . i'm not really a musician, i'm a painteer' these may seem like dodges unless you consider whitman ' do i contradict myself? very well, i contraadict myself; i contain multitudes' and jm's faarmer metaphor (leaaving ground fallow for a while) i know aabout some of this 1sthand, loving wwords and images as well as music. did a stint of 3d animaation , which must take the prize aas demanding, or offering, the most 'aaarts' to havve control of: chaarcaater devveloper, choreograapher, lights, camera, aaction, MUSIC, diaalogue, aas well as modeling the the little suckers which iss the most work of all, especially orggainic things. jack of all atraades , massteer of maaybe one.. .. . not so baad. currently into music only, in faact songs only, the center of the craaft. id did havve premonitions of losing faculties ssuch thaat i was sitting up in bed only aable to draw. one could do worse. music, especially singing, is so physically taaxing. compputeer music much less so, alth9ugh it's haard to givve it guts. yoouu may know the caage story of visiting a painteer friend who wwaas practicing with her other hand in the event she'd lose control of the main. . ;. a month or two later he vissited her and she was practicing with her foot! so also jm and i fear the paainter bizz is paartly attraactive because one can still smoke, unllike singing, aat least chez moi. tr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:15:32 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: Etiquette Hi Brian! Glad you're back on the JMDL! You wrote: > So if you are saying that we can send hate mail, nastygrams and we're supposed to keep these all to ourselves, and this is etiquette? Yes, it is etiquette (or in this case, n'etiquette). If you received a nasty letter in the regular mail, would you copy it and mail it to everyone you know? Would you request that it be printed in the local newspaper for all to read? N'etiquette is remembering that probably most members joined a mailing list for news and discussion about a particular person or subject -- in our case, Joni Mitchell. Some JMDL members enjoy reading a lot of NJC posts about others' personal lives and experiences. Almost no one wants to read about personal battles with other list members. When the recent flames were burning hottest, just about everyone commented that they felt bad and wished it would stop. My thought is that if you receive a nasty post, respond to the sender and if you must, share it privately with those you consider to be your friends. It is not necessary, nor is it appropriate, to share such letters with the entire list. It serves no purpose other than to fuel more flames and create bad feelings. Thanks for considering my input ... Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:23:19 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: Re: Joni's art I love these discussions about Joni's painting. I'm reading them all and gearing up for a comment or two. Yes, the url to the group of seven Brett sent in is fascinating http://www.tomthomson.org/g7frm.htm wow! also check out Emily Carr at: http://www.tbc.gov.bc.ca/culture/schoolnet/carr/index.htm and like Bill asking folks to include NJC in the subject head, and Steve begging people to snip the parts of other posts they include in their responses, can I say one more time... Her name is spelled Georgia O'Keeffe thank you, thankyouverymuch Sherrie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:42:49 +0100 From: Marian Russell Subject: Reflections on TTT Well, I didn't want to leave the list for 10 days without saying a bit more about TTT and something nice about Joni. A few weeks ago I was feeling kind of down on her, but I find I can't stay that way. Maybe she was just having a bad day in Chicago. Maybe it was just a mean rumor. I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. I really love TTT mostly. I especially love the songs My Best To You, Love Puts On A New Face, and Harlem In Havana. In fact, like David Wright, the only song I really don't like, for all of the reasons he expressed, is TTT itself, but the music is nice. I do like the music and the vocal melody of TTT - it's just the words that make me cringe. Tiger Bones seems a little empty without the vocal melodic line, but if it's just tiger bones, then I guess it would be a little empty. It's interesting to hear the guitar part without the melody. I'm hoping at some point to find some time to figure out just how she does her rhythmic guitar technique - at least for that song it will be easier to hear what's really going on. I like Lead Balloon. I like it better than No Apologies and Stay In Touch. I wish it had a few more verses so that it was a little longer, though. I like the way it ends like the air going out of a balloon. The ending of Stay In Touch reminds me of some other song that is in recorded existence - I want to say some Beatles song, but I don't know which one (the song that comes before Eight Days a Week?). Maybe someone who is more familiar with what's out there could help me figure this out. I like the Grace Of My Heart version of Man From Mars better than the TTT version, but it is still nice here. I really love what she has done with Face Lift. It is so hauntingly beautiful in places and sung with such feeling. I agree with what others have said about the whole of TTT feeling really intimate - as though Joni is sitting right there singing to me. I totally love the packaging. I feel like Joni has shared a lot of herself this time. We now know what her four cats look like, and Donald, and isn't that Kilauren in Ideal/Idol/Idyll? I'm not an artist myself so I can't relate what she does to any kind of knowledge base. I just know that I like these paintings very much, especially the silvery cat on the page with MFM and LPOANF and the one of Donald reading the paper, and the cover with Joni in the straw hat holding the cat. There is something very nice about putting a CD with a cat on it into the player. And we also now have a picture from the inside of Joni's house! I love the whole album. My favorite song is My Best To You. I feel like she really meant that one when she sang it. Now I should go pack or I'll be up until after midnight! Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:09:05 -0000 From: "Steven A. Blue" Subject: Re: Return of the Chilis The Chili's are back, strap yourselves in (rofl), you know deep down inside, I mean really really deep, we all missed "our" chilli(s)...I can't stop smiling, so c'mon, somebody slap me if you didn't like it (rofl) - -----Original Message----- From: Gerald Notaro (LIB) To: Chilihead2@aol.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 6:21 PM Subject: Re: Return of the Chilis >On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 Chilihead2@aol.com wrote: > >> I still disagree completely with the JMDL's official recommendation that you >> blast someone privately rather than be impolite on the list. That is > >It isn't just a JMDL thing. Posting private email to a list is a >Netiquette Rule of biblical proportions. > >Jerry > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:44:57 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: NJC: Etiquette Hey guys- I think one of the main reasons that people get offended easily on this list is because it's hard to read someone's post and try to figure out if they are being cruel (on purpose) or being nice. It would be so much easier if we had a discussion face-to-face, and not read something and take it the wrong way. I see that so much these days!! NP-Crazy Cries of Love ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:42:51 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: favorite albums I keep reading about people thinking of Hejira as a travelling album, a road album, and the other Howard (W) just mentioned that he has never been on the road with it but he still thinks it is superb. Well, I have already voted it my hands-down favorite JM album, and I believe it is my favorite album of all time. But that's not why I am writing . . . When I listen to Hejira, I travel--I am in my living room, yes, but I am travelling in some vehicle of JM's making and it is quite a ride. I am dancing with her and Coyote, I am watching the vapor trails, I am with her when Furry says I don't like you, the object of a thousand glass eyes staring, running like a white-assed deer. This is part of what makes this album so amazing--the transcendence of time and space. Listen to it and remember that it was made in 1976--it could have been her latest release, it is timeless. (For those of us that like it.) I have never thought of it as a road album, per se, but I will have to try it on my daily 45 minute commute. Howard M ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:51:06 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Reflections on TTT I just wished she'd hold the cat better. I had a fit when I was a kid about this one girl in our neighborhood who held a cat by the skin of its neck. NP-Tiger Bones (I had this song in my head all day today!) At 9:42 PM +0100 10/22/98, Marian Russell wrote: >I just know that I like these paintings very much, especially the silvery >cat >on the page with MFM and LPOANF and the one of Donald reading the >paper, and >the cover with Joni in the straw hat holding the cat. ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:54:39 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: Return of the Chilis (and the ric) and ric is back too. i was watching ashara's tape of the labor day joni fest and saw everyone on my tv screen and decided i missed you all too much not to have you on my computer screen too. so here i am. and in one, 24 hour period i am up to my chin in joni mail! yikes!! what fun. peace! - ric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:44:03 -0000 From: "Steven A. Blue" Subject: Re: Return of the Chilis (and the ric) You the Man ric! - -----Original Message----- From: RickieLee1@aol.com To: Chilihead2@aol.com ; joni@smoe.org Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 7:59 PM Subject: Re: Return of the Chilis (and the ric) >and ric is back too. i was watching ashara's tape of the labor day joni fest >and saw everyone on my tv screen and decided i missed you all too much not to >have you on my computer screen too. so here i am. and in one, 24 hour period >i am up to my chin in joni mail! yikes!! what fun. > >peace! - ric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:17:53 EDT From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: Etiquette Hi Mark, I agree with you to a point, but what we are talking about is people skills and either you have them or you don't. I don't buy it for the most part, when people say ooh it was the computer not me. I didn't mean to say stick it up your ass, i really was saying was you've got some class. BS! - -Chili ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:30:45 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: (NJC + Emily Post Posting) Welcome Back All! Well it's good to have Chili (the Walt Whitman of the jmdl) and ric (the ee cummings of the jmdl) back in the fold! Welcome back you two, and we promise to keep you up to your ears in Joni-mail -- especially with the new tour getting underway. Don Rowe (hoping that by adding my NJC tag, that this is, in fact -- a post of which Emily Post would approve ...) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:34:35 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: NJC: Etiquette What I meant was (And see! This is my point!) Is that you could read a sentence from a post and take it multiple ways. At 4:17 PM -0400 10/22/98, Chilihead2@aol.com wrote: >Hi Mark, > >I agree with you to a point, but what we are talking about is people skills >and either you have them or you don't. I don't buy it for the most part, when >people say ooh it was the computer not me. I didn't mean to say stick it up >your ass, i really was saying was you've got some class. BS! >-Chili ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 98 20:36:37 GMT From: kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant) Subject: Re: Return of the Chilis (and the ric) Uh oh, Chili and Ric are back.... Now that you've shaken your fists like lightening, and roared like forest fire, and aimed your light-like blazes all across the sky... SHOW US YOU WON'T EXPIRE!!! Welcome back, guys! -Kenny ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:43:41 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: "An Evening with Joni' on TV I need some information concerning Joni on pay-for-view tv. The night after her show in Maryland on November 5th, I am hosting a tv viewing party at my place, November 6th. I haven't seen any ads yet, and the cable company, Jones Communication, was not much help when I called. Does anyone in the DC area know who to call to request this show? I want to make sure it is really airing so I can relax. I have the cable box, and I get five pay-for-view stations. Anyone who wants to come by to watch can. I'll send diretcions to all interested. Julie is going to help me organize the snacks. Cindy and I are making a vat of veggie chili and cornbread. My guest of honor, Jerry, is going to be around and about. I'm really looking forward to our weekend of Joni. Sherrie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:47:19 EDT From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: Etiquette Hi Mark, Understood. Ambiguity..That's what legal educations are for and I have had one as did our President who said that he did not have have sex with that woman. I still assert that we can for the most part make our meaning very clear if we choose to whether its through the internet, face to face, or on the phone. - -Chili ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:49:04 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Who's Back, Who's Not NJC "Everything comes and goes......" Well, since the tribe is coming together again, where in the heck has our SUE MAC been? And I mean that seriously Mark D. I've come to learn that private feuds should be kept private, because part of the internet experience is realizing that 30% of what's written is taken the wrong way or multiple ways. (There are a ton of books out now on the pros and cons of this style of communication.) It's not the fault of the computer, it's the lack of all sorts of cues that indicate intention, so what are you going to do? If you think it's bad enough, you report it to the person's isp. None of these conflicts of late are new to the jmdl, and unfortunately it's not going to go away. One's person's version of an angry exchange can be another person's version of intense disrespect. (God knows, with my fertile imagingation, I have often made the mistake of taking things the wrong way, and other times--- I understood exactly the negative message of the sender.) So I was/am left with two choices: 1. leave this special list and miss the interaction of those of you who have come to mean so much to me, or 2. Delete Peace, love and tie dye to all, JulieZW, sometimes serious, sometimes sarcastic, sometimes silly...sometimes sybill (just kidding, just kidding....) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:00:54 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Dulcimers (NJC) For all the actual and prospective dulcimer players on the list, http://homepages.together.net/~partner/ is a new site - it looks pretty comprehensive to me! I like the "How To Get To Carnegie Hall" page myself, but it also has lots of buying and source info, playing tips, etc., etc. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:26:07 EDT From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: NJC: The Bad Penny turns into two cents Dear Marsha, I just wanted to say thank you for passing me that bad penny. You faulted me for not putting NJC on something that did have some Joni content . It was a very nice welcome back, not to mention a happy Birthday and a hope you get well soon. What amazes me is that you once said you read everything regardless of Joni content. Now your chiding me for how I label things. I would say if after two words it didn't interest you why not just delete or delete before reading. - -Chili ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:00:34 -0000 From: "Steven A. Blue" Subject: Re: (NJC + Emily Post Posting) Welcome Back All! Hey all, looking for a tik for the Nov 2 show????????? (smile) Your Brother - -----Original Message----- From: Don Rowe To: joni@smoe.org Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 8:33 PM Subject: (NJC + Emily Post Posting) Welcome Back All! >Well it's good to have Chili (the Walt Whitman of the jmdl) and ric (the >ee cummings of the jmdl) back in the fold! Welcome back you two, and we >promise to keep you up to your ears in Joni-mail -- especially with the >new tour getting underway. > >Don Rowe >(hoping that by adding my NJC tag, that this is, in fact -- a post of >which Emily Post would approve ...) > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:11:12 +0100 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: The Taylor Brothers A new album entitled "The Taylor Brothers" is in the mastering stage. It features the late Alex Taylor along with with Hugh Taylor, Livingston Taylor, James Taylor, and a tribute by Dan Aykroyd. Take care, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:50:04 +0100 From: catman Subject: NJC: Nasty Mail I came home tonight to find a gaping hole thru my kitchen window and my Haley and Martha huddled in a corner covered in glass. Bricks thru windows, insults yelled, smashed up car-all part of a gay day.Somehow any nasty email I ever received has lost it's sting. - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:52:22 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Favorite Joni Top 5 Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:00:07 -0400 From: Jeanne Whitlock This is at the moment (it has changed, thanks to what I've learned from being on this list!) 1. Hejira 2. DJRD 3. Turbulent Indigo 4. (tie) HOSL/For the Roses 5. (tie) Court and Spark/Blue Less than a week and counting for the Detroit area Joni show!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:53:08 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: NJC: Re: Laugh-In Character *NJC* From: "Jim L'Hommedieu]" Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:09:09 -0400 Arte Johnson was the German soldier who observed the others from behind a potted palm and slowly remarked, "Verrrr-ry in-ter-esting!" BTW, thanks 4s for posting your experience with the BDTS folks. Go Joni, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally!** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 98 15:02:18 -0700 From: Wally Breese Subject: Joni's Tour Hello everybody, Joni's tour with Bob Dylan begins tomorrow, with the first show in Minneapolis, Minnesota (Bob's home state). Opening all the shows will be a third act, Dave Alvin & The Guilty Men. There will be a total of 11 shows in 15 days, culminating in Atlanta, Georgia on the 7th of November (Joni's 55th birthday.) I've arranged for an official JM.COM reporter/photographer for every show and they'll be sending in their reports as soon as they can write them, with photographs arriving soon afterwards. As with Joni's previous concerts this year, I would like all of you who attend a show to send me your review of the show. I'll be putting up a page for each of the 11 shows, and I'll include your thoughts along with those of my official reporter. (Be sure to specify which show you're reviewing.) Thanks, folks! Visit: http://www.JoniMitchell.com/Tour98.html Later, Wally Breese The Joni Mitchell Homepage http://www.JoniMitchell.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:56:13 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: NJC "Professional Jealousy" At 04:47 PM 10/22/98 EDT, Chili wrote: >Understood. Ambiguity..That's what legal educations are for and I have had one >as did our President who said that he did not have have sex with that woman. Chili, Thank you thank you....I've been waiting for someone to mention the Clinton/Monica scandal, so I could post the lyrics from Van Morrison's song that he wrote way before the name 'Monica,' became a household word: "Professional Jealousy"* Professional jealousy, can bring down a nation And personal invasion, can ruin a man Not even his family, will understand what's happening The price that he's paying, or even the pain Professional jealousy, started a rumour And then it extended, to be more abuse What started out as just, black propaganda Was one day seen to be, believed as truth They say the truth is, stranger than fiction But a lie is more, deadly than sin It can make a man very, bitter and angry When he thinks that there's someone, is going to win Professional jealousy makes other people crazy When they think you've got something that, they don't have What they don't understand is it's, just not easy To cover it all, and, stand where you stand Professional jealousy, makes no exception It can happen to anyone, at any time The only requirement is, knowing what's needed And then delivering, what's needed on time *And please, please, please: There no multiple meanings in this post! I have been having a Van Morrison listening-marathon for the last two weeks, and just wanted to share. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 98 22:20:59 GMT From: kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant) Subject: Re: "An Evening with Joni' on TV Hey Sherrie and all, My cable company (Time Warner) claims that they NEVER have PPV info on anything but the current month, and that they don't get the new schedule till the 1st of the month -- so don't blame your cable company too much, it's probably just lack of info as opposed to lack of cooperation. And call them on the 1st! -Kenny On 10/22/98 5:43PM, sherrie.good@chronicle.com wrote: I need some information concerning Joni on pay-for-view tv. The night after her show in Maryland on November 5th, I am hosting a tv viewing party at my place, November 6th. I haven't seen any ads yet, and the cable company, Jones Communication, was not much help when I called. Does anyone in the DC area know who to call to request this show? I want to make sure it is really airing so I can relax. I have the cable box, and I get five pay-for-view stations. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:24:11 -0400 From: jw1327 Subject: Joni's sad slide down the Billboard charts... Here we go again... Oct. 17: TTT debuts at #75 on the hot 200 album charts Oct. 24: TTT slips 37 points to #112. Has anyone seen a video on VH1? Would a video help at this point? Who knows? Joni has been ALL OVER the place the last two months or so- a wealth of coverage! A picture in the paper on average of once a week! Concerts coming up- a tv special, etc etc etc. This is unbelievably frustrating and disheartening for me (...so then what must the lady herself feel like???). A few years back, Bonnie Raitt pulled off a stunning and much deserved comeback- she was catapulted to the top, where she has remained. So why doesn't the same thing happen for Joni? Because Bonnie is easy to understand- her image is cool: survivor, blues mama, overcoming adversity, substance abuse, etc- and lookin and sounding pretty damn good while she does it. She turns out music with grit- that is also commercial and sellable (oh God- here we go again...)- yes: commercial, sellable, and (guess what) GOOD!! She is easily pegged- we feel comfortable with her image and her life and her triumph- we root for her, the underdog, the diamond in the rough- the overlooked gem. Joni? How to peg her? What image comes to mind? She is un-pigeonhole-able. An admirable quality in an artist. Also one that makes people feel a little nervous- never knowing what to expect. IS this necessarily bad? no. But it certainly doesn't help her sales record. The music? Untouchable when it comes to artistic integrity, lyrical beauty, musicianly craftsmanship. But, in the words of Tracey Turnblad, does it have "....a good beat and you can dance to it?!" I am not surprized that TTT is sliding down the charts so quickly. How could songs like "No Apology," "Facelift," "Taming the Tiger." and even the unfortunate "Lead Balloon" compare and compete with the likes of Sheryl Crow- who seems to own Billboard and VH1. (No offense Billboard- thank God you at least stand steadfastly in Joni's corner). Well- yes I'm ranting again- but I am angry and I don't know who to direct my anger toward. Here's a question. Whadda you think? Could Joni make another album, at this time of her life, like, say, "Blue" or "Ladies of the Canyon" or even "Song to a Seagull (you know the one I mean)" Remember the question is NOT would she want to make such an album. The question is COULD she? She often belittles the songs on those albums- but guess what? They are great songs, beautiful of MELODY, beautiful of guitar style, and they don't all sound alike! I would dearly love to hear Joni make a 90's version of, say, "Song to a Seagull"- acoustic guitar, strong melody- emotive singing, articulate playing. Ok Ok- I can dream, can't I. Or maybe more appropo, in the words of Etta James "I have dreams to remember." Angry, morose, disappointed, and melancholy in Manhattan, James, the Conspiracy Chronicler ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:45:58 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: new wave of hostility? NJC, JMDLC I sense a new wave of hostility on the list. I retreated from the list for awhile because of this. I really enjoyed the list this week, with talk of Joni's paintings and such. I enjoyed thinking about my favorite albums by her. But these petty wars are not why I signed on. It is draining, besides boring. I do say, take it privately. Spare us. I want to feel safe talking about Joni. If you just want to bicker over stupid shit, form a "nasty asses" list where you can go and type all of the horrible crap about each other you wanna. When this childish picking on each other starts up I do not feel safe writing in my thoughts about Joni's paintings or music. I miss the old days. Sherrie who is still grateful for the JMDL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:07:08 -0600 From: Brett Code Subject: RE: new wave of hostility? NJC, JMDLC Can I just say that I agree entirely with Sherrie on this. I've been reading the "etiquette" messages all day with a building sense of tension, the same tension I probably felt on the school playground decades ago when a bully was trying to impose his will and whims on others. It is uncomfortable and certainly is not conducive to the free flow of ideas. Sherrie talks of boredom, draining, and fear; I feel some kind of discomfort which hasn't yet manifested itself into fear. I don't need it, and I hope it will end soon. Brett - ---------- From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com I sense a new wave of hostility on the list. I retreated from the list for awhile because of this. I really enjoyed the list this week, with talk of Joni's paintings and such. I enjoyed thinking about my favorite albums by her. But these petty wars are not why I signed on. It is draining, besides boring. I do say, take it privately. Spare us. I want to feel safe talking about Joni. If you just want to bicker over stupid shit, form a "nasty asses" list where you can go and type all of the horrible crap about each other you wanna. When this childish picking on each other starts up I do not feel safe writing in my thoughts about Joni's paintings or music. I miss the old days. Sherrie who is still grateful for the JMDL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:21:11 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: new wave of hostility? NJC, JMDLC In a message dated 98-10-22 18:47:44 EDT, sherrie.good@chronicle.com writes: << I sense a new wave of hostility on the list. >> just for the record...I DID NOT OPEN MY MOUTH!!!!! but i think it is interesting that you "read" it that way sherrie. i didn't. i thought a post or two about the etiquette thread (which i read with some interest) could have been worded a bit less harshly...or more carefully...but i did not think them hostile. not at all. sometimes it really is just a question of perception. but regardless, you should not let any thread make you fearful of expressing your thoughts!! i am interested in them, as are many others. peace, ric (wish i could join you - or SOMEone, to watch the pay per view! my wife cannot stand joni mitchell!!! any divorce lawyers on list???) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:02:59 -0000 From: "Steven A. Blue" Subject: Re: new wave of hostility? NJC, JMDLC wolfgaarde, inc, a private investigation corporation, yes we do divorce, we are cheaper than attorney's (smile) but for a fellow list member, advice is free, write me at : blues@sgi.net or call me at 412-221-5584 peace - -----Original Message----- From: RickieLee1@aol.com To: joni@smoe.org Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 11:30 PM Subject: Re: new wave of hostility? NJC, JMDLC >In a message dated 98-10-22 18:47:44 EDT, sherrie.good@chronicle.com writes: > ><< I sense a new wave of hostility on the list. >> > >just for the record...I DID NOT OPEN MY MOUTH!!!!! > >but i think it is interesting that you "read" it that way sherrie. i didn't. >i thought a post or two about the etiquette thread (which i read with some >interest) could have been worded a bit less harshly...or more carefully...but >i did not think them hostile. not at all. sometimes it really is just a >question of perception. >but regardless, you should not let any thread make you fearful of expressing >your thoughts!! i am interested in them, as are many others. >peace, ric (wish i could join you - or SOMEone, to watch the pay per view! my >wife cannot stand joni mitchell!!! any divorce lawyers on list???) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #432 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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