From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #429 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 21 1998 Volume 03 : Number 429 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Nashville@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: what's the best joni album [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: what's the best joni album [IVPAUL42@aol.com] OH MY GAWD! 142 [Michael Paz ] Re: What's the best Joni album ["morten feiring" ] Title track of TTT [David Wright ] 19th row Chicago Ticket Available [chaslee@ix.netcom.com] Re: Title track of TTT ["Deb Messling" ] Top Joni Albums [DanVall@aol.com] top Joni albums ["Deb Messling" ] Re: Best Albums/Joni in German [Tleetie@aol.com] re: what's the best Joni album ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Re: what's the best joni album [Jerry Notaro ] One NYC Ticket available ["Jill Linn" ] Re: Title track of TTT ["Marsha" ] Re: Title track of TTT [Barrylauri@aol.com] Re: what's the best joni album [Barrylauri@aol.com] What's the best joni album? [Steve Dulson ] Mags [Wally Breese ] Re: what's the best joni album ["John M. Lind" ] Re: Title track of TTT [Drewdix@aol.com] Re: Title track of TTT ["Don Rowe" ] Bad Joni albums? NOT! [sherrie.good@chronicle.com] RE: JMDL Digest V3 #425 [Bounced Message ] JM and Herbie [Bounced Message ] Men are from Mars (JC) [Bounced Message ] Re: What's the best joni album? [LRFye@aol.com] Please Accept My Apology David ["Don Rowe" ] Re: What's the best joni album? ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Bad Joni albums? NOT! [PMcfad@aol.com] Re: Atlanta Tickets Now Available From bobdylan.com ["John M. Lind" ] Re: Men are from Mars (JC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: favorite joni album vote ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re: favorite joni album vote [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: favorite joni album vote [Charstarl@aol.com] Re: Jackson Browne "slugfest" (Joni history) ["Kakki" ] RE[2]: JMDL - a misunderstood lot (NJC) [bab_news ] let;'s hear it for....... [Christopher Dainty ] Re: Joni's art ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni's art [sherrie.good@chronicle.com] Re: Atlanta Tickets Now Available From bobdylan.com ["Marsha" ] Re: Title track of TTT [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Title track of TTT ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Bad Joni albums? NOT! [TerryM2442@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:34:53 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: what's the best joni album It's so hard to do this, because I like nearly every song on every album. You can number this list from 1 through 17 if you want, but I have a really hard time ranking them, because I feel like there are distinct groups of equally good albums. 1. Court & Spark 1. Hejira 1. The Hissing Of Summer Lawns 1. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 2. Blue 2. Song To A Seagull 2. For The Roses 2. Wild Things Run Fast 3. Ladies Of The Canyon 3. Night Ride Home 3. Turbulent Indigo 3. Taming The Tiger 4. Clouds 5. Mingus 6. Dog Eat Dog 7. Chalk Mark In A Rain Storm 8. Miles Of Aisles 9. Shadows & Light Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 04:14:14 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: what's the best joni album In a message dated 10/21/98 2:30:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ewwtaylor@prodigy.net writes: << I was surprised that everyone but Mark left out Shadows & Light and Miles Of Aisles. And no one included Hits and Misses. >> I followed the precedent of the person who initiated the thread in doing so, and I tend to agree with reasoning that those albums, with minor exceptions, are essentially compilations and do not contain original songs. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 03:29:37 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: OH MY GAWD! 142 Pant Pant. Oh gawd I had 142 emails when I got home and I am too tired to deal with this now,BUT I will finish this off for Wally by tomorrow before the witching hour. Gnight all Paz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:40:05 +0100 From: "morten feiring" Subject: Re: What's the best Joni album Here are the votes of the norwegian jury (I don't know of any other norwegians on this list!): 1. Hejira 2. Court and Spark 3. Blue The last(and only) time I saw Joni (live) was in Oslo, Norway in 83, and this she(could have) told me: " I'll come back to you in 1999!" You lucky lot over there, send a comforting thought to us over here! Morten ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:21:46 +0100 From: David Wright Subject: Title track of TTT Hi all, I started to write my thoughts on the entire TTT album, but I got caught up in writing about the only song on TTT I dislike -- in fact, that makes me cringe more and more every time I hear it -- the title track. (Yes, I like Lead Balloon.) So I decided to send this separately and follow with my more positive thoughts on the rest of the album very shortly. So here goes: 1) I hate Joni's reactionary carping about today's popular music (just as I hate it when she does it in interviews -- just because you don't get it, Joni, doesn't mean....). (Joni's carping about "kids these days" has a long history, it seems to me - -- remembering that line in Just Like This Train about "kids...with those wide wide open stares/and the kids got cokes and chocolate bars" etc.) 2) I think the chorus's fusion of William Blake with nursery rhymes ("the old man is snoring") with "Nice kitty kitty!" is just plain jarringly unsuccessful. 3) The background voices -- "you can't tame the tiger" and "fight to the light" (what the hell does that mean? it sounds like a near-death experience) -- make me laugh. They sound kind of like Joni's "Furry he's got no-o-o-body" voice to me. I wish I could put my finger on what exactly bothers me about them so I could make a more constructive criticism, but there it is. 4) The song is not well written to me...the first half of each stanza sets a pensive scene or mood...then, in the second half, out of nowhere she starts complaining about the music industry -- for example, in the first stanza, going from "over the rent-a-car" to "I'm a runaway from the record biz" in about one bar. Similarly in stanzas two and four -- from "purring at your side" to "accolades and honors" (if Joni's getting accolades and honors, does that mean the beast is purring at her side?), and from "fireworks in the sky" to "I'm sick of this game." The song never unites these two disparate parts for me. 5) I don't really sympathize when she moans about her "hopeless plight" -- I don't think she's quite so bad off as she thinks, and I like the more proactive, less victimized spirit of, yes that's right, Lead Balloon!! The lyric sheet gives the line in the chorus as "Tiger tiger burning brightLY." I hear her singing "bright," but I haven't listened closely. It makes me wonder, does Joni's "improvement" of the old masters (like Yeats) extend to correcting their grammar? (Does anyone really care that Blake used an adjective instead of an adverb?) Or was that just a typo? I DO like the music for this song rather well. How fortunate that she provided an instrumental version for us. Discussion? Be well, - --David NP: Arnold Schoenberg, _Pierrot Lunaire_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:25:32 +0000 From: chaslee@ix.netcom.com Subject: 19th row Chicago Ticket Available I can't go, and I'm selling this one ticket at my cost. It's in the 19th row, center section on the floor. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:27:25 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: Title track of TTT Thanks, David; you articulated my precise thoughts on this song. You forgot to mention Anna, and how pointless it is to stick a character in a song with no explanation of who the character is. I do believe she *is* singing "bright," though. Another question: is she really singing "the moon shed light?" I hear a distinct "d" sound and thought for awhile she was singing "dawn shed light," which makes no sense in context. Is she singing "da moon shed light?" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:24:21 EDT From: DanVall@aol.com Subject: Top Joni Albums My list of top Joni albums: 1. Hejira 2. Chalkmark in a Rainstorm 3. Night Ride Home 4. For the Roses 5. Court and Spark 6. Taming The Tiger 7. Dog Eat Dog 8. Turbulent Indigo 9. Hissing of Summer Lawns 10 Ladies of the Canyon Tough to make these choices. And I know it seems many do not appreciate DOG EAT DOG but I think the music and lyrics are very appealing. HEJIRA has carried me through the years. And CHALKMARK is a masterpiece. Dante ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:48:00 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: top Joni albums This has as much permanence as a poll on "what am I wearing" or "how fast is my computer." But it's easy to rank Blue as my favorite. I remember the intense jolt the first time I put it on the turntable. It sounded so different from the "magic princess" songs I was expecting. At first I was profoundly disappointed, then by about the fifth listen, I was transfixed. Blue Hejira Song to a Seagull Turbulent Indigo Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Taming the Tiger For the Roses Hissing of Summer Lawns Court and Spark Night Ride Home Clouds Shadows and Light Ladies of the Canyon Mingus Miles of Aisles Wild Things Run Fast Dog Eat Dog Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:54:25 EDT From: Tleetie@aol.com Subject: Re: Best Albums/Joni in German Wow! Not an easy task, but I couldn't resist: 1. Hejira 2. Turbulent Indigo (why is this one getting such low ratings?) 3. For The Roses 4. Night Ride Home 5. Court and Spark 6. Taming the Tiger 7. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 8. Hissing of Summer Lawns 9. Clouds 10. Song to a Seagull 11. Ladies of the Canyon 12. Blue 13. Dog Eat Dog 14. Wild Things Run Fast 15. Chalk Mark in the Rain Storm 16. Mingus (some of you hate me) Marian Russell, you just described how there was a Joni-fest in Vienna!! I could die. I subscribed to this list because I recently moved to Vienna and feel so out of touch because people with Joni's mentality don't exist here. Where did this event take place? Will there be any kind of a revival or another concert? I would have loved to have seen it! Let me know if there are other Vienna/Joni connections happening! Auf Wiedersehen! Danny ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:24:06 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: re: what's the best Joni album The following are the numerical order of Joni albums that I currently listen to with the most frequency---and when I discovered them..And the survey says: 1. Hissing Of Summer Lawns - high school 2. Hejira-college 3. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter-college 4. Court and Spark- high school 5. Blue-college 6. Song To A Seagull-post college 7. For The Roses-the jmdl years/Ladies Of The Canyon-Jon's albums 8. Miles of Aisles-high school years/ Clouds-college years A. "Hits"- jmdl years B. "Shadows and Light"- post college 9. Night Ride Home-the jmdl years 10. Turbulent Indigo-AK: after Kids 11. Mingus- Jon's album 12. Dog Eat Dog- Jon's albums 13. Chalk Mark In A Rain Storm-Jon's albums 14. TTT = jmdl years ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:39:01 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: what's the best joni album My best to you. Jerry. 1. Blue 2. For The Roses 3. Hejira 4. Ladies Of The Canyon 5. The Hissing Of Summer Lawns 6. Court & Spark 7. Clouds 8. Night Ride Home 8. Song To A Seagull 9. Taming The Tiger 10. Turbulent Indigo 11. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 12. Chalk Mark In A Rain Storm 13. Wild Things Run Fast 14. Dog Eat Dog 15. Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:41:44 EDT From: Denisongs@aol.com Subject: Re: Jackson Browne "slugfest" (Joni history) In a message dated 98-10-21 08:34:44 EDT, you write: << I love Joni, and I think that Not to Blame is an important song that reaches FAR beyond Jackson Browne, but......I do not believe her when she says that the specifics she used to illustrate her point are not about him. The details are spicific and fit him perfectly. She needs to deny it, but her denial rings false. This is my view, others are welcome to their own. ......Denise >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:47:03 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: Best Albums I agree with all the sentiment that this is just an impossible task. Mostly, because Joni (as well as most of my other music) but Joni especially, is is connected to whatever mood I am in. So, what my favorites are today, may not be my favorites 5 minutes from now. However, with that in mind, this is my list at the moment. 1. For The Roses 2. Blue 3. Court and Spark 4. Night Ride Home 5. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 6. Clouds 7. Taming the Tiger 8. Hejira 9. Song to a Seagull 10. Hissing of Summer Lawns 11. Turbulent Indigo 12. Ladies of the Canyon 13. Chalk Mark in the Rain Storm 14. Wild Things Run Fast 15. Dog Eat Dog 16. Mingus Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:48:54 -0500 From: "William C. Burnworth" Subject: musician interview The Musician interview is in the Dec. issue, and the website features a long excised portion("online exclusive") that printed 13 pages for me. I'm a new subscriber and missed the tape and video trees. I do have audio to trade, incl. the New Orleans performance. Thanks, William ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 06:03:50 PDT From: "Jill Linn" Subject: One NYC Ticket available I have one ticket for NYC/MSG for sale - - - Section 8 (on the floor) Row G. $85.00 Please e-mail me if you are interested! Jill ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:49:09 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: Title track of TTT David in England, you lucky dog, wrote: > The lyric sheet gives the line in the chorus as "Tiger tiger burning >brightLY." I hear her singing "bright," but I haven't listened closely. It >makes me wonder, does Joni's "improvement" of the old masters (like Yeats) >extend to correcting their grammar? (Does anyone really care that Blake >used an adjective instead of an adverb?) Or was that just a typo? ME TOO! (so shoot me) "Tiger, tiger burning brightLY In the forest of the nightLY...." > I DO like the music for this song rather well. How fortunate that she >provided an instrumental version for us. As Karaoke Kween of the southern jmdl contingent, I LOVE this last track...I'm working up my parody as soon as things quiet down this winter, and I'm so happy the sound won't be degraded by the usual removal of vocals. "Snoring! My old man is boring And I'm taking a tire iron...." Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:25:28 EDT From: Barrylauri@aol.com Subject: Re: Title track of TTT Hi David. I purchased TTT last week and at first listen was not overly excited about it at all. I instantly liked "lead balloon" and "harlem in havana". I've listened to every track about a dozen or more times and the songs are sort of growing on me. I don't much care for "my best to you" "stay in touch" or "man from mars". When I first purchased Turbulent Indigo the same thing also happened. It's kind of an acquired taste that takes time. So, with that in mind, maybe i'll grow to enjoy every song on TTT. Laurie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:29:13 EDT From: Barrylauri@aol.com Subject: Re: what's the best joni album As with many other listers, my album choices vary depending on my mood. The only constants are my top three: Blue For the Roses Hejira my next 12 or so would be a toss up but my definate last choice Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:48:37 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: What's the best joni album? OK, I'll bite. The personal observations will be a re-run for many of you. It might change a little, especially in the 4 to 10 range. Usual disclaimer: Joni on a bad day outperforms most artists at their best. 1. Hejira No competition. The best preparing to travel/travelling/recovering from travel music imaginable. A masterpiece. Jaco was awesome. 2. Hissing of Summer Lawns Joni fails to record "Court & Spark II" - but comes up with this brilliant collection. 3. For The Roses "Cold Blue Steel" - one of her best songs ever. 4. Night Ride Home I don't actually own this yet (!) but the songs are great. 5. Taming the Tiger I like it a lot. 6. Clouds My first Joni. 1969, a woman who worked as a maid in Beverly Hills (Hillgreen Drive - anywhere near Joni's place?), smuggled me into the maid's quarters one night, played me this and Neil Young's "Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere". Heady stuff for a 19-year-old! 7. Ladies of the Canyon By the time this came out, I'd heard many of the songs live. I think this was the real flowering of Joni's craft....the lyrics, music, painting, production, arrangements, all coming together. Before, they hadn't jelled so successfully. 8. Blue The ultimate confessional album. I ached along with Joni on this one. Hey, Joni plays the dulcimer - maybe *I* should get one - it looks pretty easy... 9. Song To A Seagull The terrible recording quality on this one always was a problem for me. 10. Turbulent Indigo It's OK. This could well be higher. 11. Mingus 12. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter I haven't listened to these two nearly enough. "Wolf" is a killer. 13. Court and Spark I've heard these songs way too much. The arrangements have more to do with Tom Scott (*I* think!) than Joni. 14. Wild Things Run Fast 15. Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm I should listen to these more, too. 16. Dog Eat Dog What was she thinking? ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 98 09:12:23 -0700 From: Wally Breese Subject: Mags Hey all, Did I forget to send this piece to the list? From all the talk about not knowing which issue of Musician mag has the article on Joni, maybe I forgot. Of course, this new info is always available first on the JMHP "What's New?" page at http://www.jonimitchell.com/upcoming2.html The November issue of Vanity Fair (with Brad Pitt on the cover), includes Joni in their "America's Most Influential Women" special report. Joni is on the page entitled "Divaland" which includes Madonna, Patti Smith, Diana Ross, Aretha Franklin, Whitney Houston and Barbra Streisand. I guess they ran out of room for Mariah Carey! Other mags: The October issue of Harper's Bazaar has a review of Taming The Tiger, the December issue of the U.K.'s Mojo magazine lists Joni as one of the "100 Greatest Singers of All Time" (She lands at #19!), and December's Musician magazine has a lengthy profile of Joni (you can read online outtakes from the interview at): http://www.musicianmag.com/art/mitchell/ Later, Wally Breese The Joni Mitchell Homepage http://www.JoniMitchell.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:50:47 -0400 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Re: what's the best joni album OK here's mine(as of today): 1- Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 2- Mingus 3- Shadows & Light 4- Hejira 5- Hissing of Summer Lawns 6- Song To A Seagull 7- Turbulent Indigo 8- Night Ride Home 9- Taming the Tiger 10- Court and Spark 11- Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm 12- Miles Of Ailes 13- Ladies of the Canyon 14- Blue 15- Dog Eat Dog 16- For The Roses 17- Wild Things Run Fast 18- Big Yellow Taxi(mix single) 19- Clouds John~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:19:09 EDT From: Drewdix@aol.com Subject: Re: Title track of TTT In a message dated 98-10-21 04:48:51 EDT, you write: << The lyric sheet gives the line in the chorus as "Tiger tiger burning brightLY." I hear her singing "bright," but I haven't listened closely. >> David, loved your thoughts on the title track. I enjoy it more than you, but it doesn't quite come together. But listen closely: on the first phrase of the chorus, she DOES sing "Tiger, tiger, burning brightLY"- it's soft, but she sings the "-ly" on a note a major fourth below the note she uses for "bright-" but that;s it---the second phrase is just "bright" and "night" I also am bothered by the "fight to the light" echos. Much as she uses the "antagonists" in "Job's Sad Song" on TI, but used well on that album. I am in complete agreement with the good fortune of "Tiger Bones" on the CD. I love the instrumental and I had the same Karaoke fantasy as a previous poster! But it's better that the track itself, which tries to say too much. I think. - --Drew ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:33:55 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Title track of TTT Hello David -- and a belated welcome to the jmdl. I sincerely hope that you won't think this response a "baptism of fire", but I feel a certain need to rush to "TTT's" defense. No, it isn't the literary tour-de-force of DJRD's title cut, and I'll grant you that. But there is still much to recommend it. That's the wind-up, here comes the pitch - -- >1) I hate Joni's reactionary carping about today's popular music (just as I hate it when she does it in interviews -- just because you don't get it, Joni, doesn't mean....). "But he has nothing on!" exclaims the small boy in "The Emporer's New Clothes". And that's what's going on here, I think. So Joni casts herself in this role, and says what a lot of us are thinking about Hanson, Spice Chicks, shock make-up horror shows, empty grunge angst and the "number" bands ... Mexico 70, Pavementhead 8000, Matchbox 20. I don't think Joni cared for these acts back when they were Village People, Shawn Cassidy, Menudo, Alice Cooper, New Kids on the Block or The Partridge Family. So it's not just today ... so very little has really changed. Which makes the "up and down the dial, mercenary style" line that much more resonant for me. >(Joni's carping about "kids these days" has a long history, it seems to me -- remembering that line in Just Like This Train about "kids...with those wide wide open stares/and the kids got cokes and chocolate bars" etc.) This is NOT complaining, it is merely a tender observation. I don't see where you get the idea that Joni's "carping". Is the man in the song "smoking a fat cigar" a complaint from Joni about second-hand smoke? I think not. ;-) >2) I think the chorus's fusion of William Blake with nursery rhymes ("the old man is snoring") with "Nice kitty kitty!" is just plain jarringly unsuccessful. It's a daring juxtaposition, which is bound to anger either those who worship Blake or fondly remember nursery rhymes. For me, it works on a level that shows the literary pretensions of a business that really produces nothing more than forgettable ditties ... if you will, nursery rhyme. >3) The background voices -- "you can't tame the tiger" and "fight to the light" (what the hell does that mean? it sounds like a near-death >experience) -- make me laugh. They sound kind of like Joni's "Furry he's got no-o-o-body" voice to me. I wish I could put my finger on what exactly bothers me about them Well, here I have to say that I've just always loved Joni's "Greek Chorus" ... it's one of her greatest and most consistent features. I see these as the voices of reason, conscience ... the devil and angel on Joni's shoulders. Besides, there's nothing wrong with comic, is there? >4) The song is not well written to me...the first half of each stanza sets a pensive scene or mood...then, in the second half, out of nowhere she starts complaining about the music industry -- for example, in the first stanza, going from "over the rent-a-car" to "I'm a runaway from the record biz" in about one bar. Similarly in stanzas two and four -- from "purring at your side" to "accolades and honors" (if Joni's getting accolades and honors, does that mean the beast is purring at her side?), and from "fireworks in the sky" to "I'm sick of this game." The song never unites these two disparate parts for me. If unity is what you're looking for, then the song is a disappointment. But Joni has long been "our lady of duality", and if you can let "both sides now" peacefully co-exist, the song again works out fine. The structure gives an impression of the unpredictability, the feline nature of music and composing vs. marketing and making sales. It's a world in which the artist and realist seldom meet, if ever. It is not finely crafted, but written to reflect the subject at hand, and in this the writing succeeds admirably -- if not eloquently. >5) I don't really sympathize when she moans about her "hopeless plight" - -- I don't think she's quite so bad off as she thinks, and I like the more proactive, less victimized spirit of, yes that's right, Lead Balloon!! > "Moaning" is a bit strong. In fact, the delivery is tossed off -- as if to minimize the stated hopelessness. I don't think Joni's on a fishing trip for sympathy ... that's just not her style. I get a consistent image here of Joni in her favorite chair, cats in her lap, listening to the radio for a change and telling the kids how bland it is. >The lyric sheet gives the line in the chorus as "Tiger tiger burning >brightLY." I hear her singing "bright," but I haven't listened closely. It makes me wonder, does Joni's "improvement" of the old masters (like Yeats) extend to correcting their grammar? (Does anyone really care that Blake used an adjective instead of an adverb?) Or was that just a typo? > The liner notes on TTT are full of little surprises like this ... for instance, the consistent "peddle" steel guitar, which we all know is a pun. I'm going to listen more closely myself though, and see if I can hear bright-ly ... even so, I don't get the idea that Joni's trying to improve or correct anybody. >I DO like the music for this song rather well. How fortunate that she >provided an instrumental version for us. > Here! Here! In fact, Joan, while you're at it, could we please have some "Amelia Bones", "Tea Leaf Prophecy Bones", "Strange Boy's Bones"? It is such a rare treat to see the unadorned beauty of Joni's composition. That's it ... see no flames. Looking forward to a riposte! Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:45:50 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: Bad Joni albums? NOT! deja vu. I feel like i've been here before... I like them all. Chalk Mark, Turbulent Indigo and certainly Taming the Tiger haven't seeped into my bones like the others, but in time. It kills me to see folks put down Mingus. IMHO, while it isn't my favorite, it probably best boast her genius. If you've never heard the songs as instrumentals, before Joni added lyrics, you must treat yourself. The way she wove those brilliant lyrics into classic compostitions... amazing. I love Ladies of the Canyon, it was necessary in 1970 to hear this album. And Blue was essential. For the Roses had me in a heavy trance. Court and Spark saved my life. Miles of Aisles gave me joy. Hissing of Summer Lawns elevated it all to another level. Hejira took us there. (I loved the first two, esp. Song To A Seagull. Clouds was important at the time, but all of those vowels now set me on edge a bit). Don Juan's Reckless Daughter: PERFECTION Mingus demanded personal evolution. Shadows and Light, I never really bonded to. I need to spend more time with it someday. Wild Things found me living in British Columbia and it was oh so Joni. There is brilliant writing on Wild Things. I think it was a bit of a shocker, a happy Joni. I remember feeling happy for her whan I first heard this album. Do not dismiss. How come almost no one likes Dog Eat Dog? It could me titled Hissing II. Once again, Joni shows us the world through her eyes, now the eyes of a hawk. I say, if you don't like Dog, you can't have Impossible Dreamer. If you don't like Don Juan, Cotton Avenue you can not claim. Haven't bonded with Chalk Mark, though Lakota is one of my favorite songs by anyone, and the video made me cry. There are quite a few brilliant titles here, I need more time. You would think 11 years would be enough... Night Ride Home: PERFECTION Turbulent Indigo, lots of excellance, more time needed to bond. Same with the Tiger. Joni is in a class by herself and has been from the get go. Yet, all of this is her second career. She is a painter. I wrote last week about what I thought were some interesting observations about the art on Turbulent Indigo, and one person responded to it. Maybe we need to set up a side group to discuss her first career, painter? I would love to. We could take one painting a week and talk about it. Be in no hurry. Any interest? Sherrie NP: Katie Webster, The Swamp Boogie Queen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:10:33 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V3 #425 From: Barber Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:19:51 -0400 Yesterday in L.A., Joni began four days of rehearsals for her upcoming eleven date tour sharing the bill with Bob Dylan. Hi Wally, What eleven tours? Looks to me like Joni is down to nine. What happened to Orlando and Tampa FL?? I bought my plane tickets 2 weeks ago in hopes that my dream to see Joni with my brother was going to come true. When I saw the concerts taken off the JM homepage, I thought maybe it was a technicality and it would be up again soon. Then today I went to a Bob Dylan concert listing and saw a message that said the FL concerts would not be happening. Is it true? Still hoping for the best! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:53:10 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: JM and Herbie From: HDBfly@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:00:08 EDT Sweet mothah of Je-sus! She sang the words "Someday he'll come along . . . " and I got goosebumps. Good god! That voice--ravaged beautifully by smoke--is perfect on these songs. But the Man I Love. Oh, I found religion. I have this same reaction whenever I hear Dinah Washington sing Ain't Nobody's Business If I do. and now, Ms. Mitchell, she done outdone her bad self. Brothers and sisters, if you have not heard her sing this song--you run out and you get this CD and listen to perfection. Mama! I was driving home thinking what a fanatic I am--making a special trip to Borders to get it (it's on sale for 11.99) and am I glad I did. Holy, holy. When I heard Trouble Man last month, I was hoping for that beauty on TTT. HInts I got, but not perfection. Now, I have the perfection. Her voice--the way it strains, almost rasps--like a tenor sax or a clarinet. Baby, oh baby. I will shut up now. Howard M NP: The Man I Love PS--Someday, he comes along--the man I love--this will be the song I play when we climb into . . . oh, ah, never mind. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:11:20 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Men are from Mars (JC) From: kbarnicle@ma01.ensr.com Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:54:01 EDT This review on TTT was in The Patriot Ledger (a local paper for communities south of Boston) on October 16, 1998. The column was written by Mick Skidmore where he also reviewed CDs by Jonny Lang, Morrisey, and Hot Tuna. The headline of the article in large letters said "MITCHELL'S "TIGER" PURRS LIKE A PUSSYCAT". The article is accompanied by a beautiful photo of Joni with her long blond hair, a beret, and a big big smile. Can you catch the two big errors in this article? ========================== This new album from Joni Mitchell, her 19th, is challenging and well crafted. It's not her best work by any means, but it contains some artfully written songs and some wonderful musical nuances. The opening cut, "Harlem in Havana", blends rock, jazz, and ambient music while retaining Mitchell's eloquent poetic lyrical ramblings as its focal point. Throughout the disc, there is a subtle blend of folk, jazz, and electronics. Mitchell weaves intricate lyrical and musical tapestries in the moody "Men Are From Mars" and offers up some sensitive but pointed politicizing in "No Apology". The latter seems to have its roots in the recent, much publicized rape of Japanese girls by American servicemen in Okinawa. Mitchell handles the subject well. Also notable is the title cut with its lush music and sultry melody and complex vocals. The only pace Mitchell seems to falter is "Lead Balloon" which is laced with cliches. Perhaps the biggest surprise of the album is her thoughtful and cinematic rendition of "My Best to You", a 40s song made popular by country music stars The Sons of the Pioneers. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:12:52 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: What's the best joni album? Steve Dulson wrote: > 16. Dog Eat Dog > > What was she thinking? Joni seems to have been thinking a whole lot about the state of the world at that particular time (and her observations continue to apply 13 years later). Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:19:26 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Please Accept My Apology David Sorry David, to have thought you a new-comer. Michael straightened me out on that. Maybe if I opened my eyes I'd quit bumping into these damned walls, huh? Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:29:39 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: What's the best joni album? >From: LRFye@aol.com >Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:12:52 EDT >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: What's the best joni album? >Reply-To: LRFye@aol.com > >Steve Dulson wrote: > >> 16. Dog Eat Dog >> >> What was she thinking? > >Joni seems to have been thinking a whole lot about the state of the world at >that particular time (and her observations continue to apply 13 years later). > >Lori >San Antonio > Hi Lori. Just finished following the links from Wally's page to musicianmag.com, the interview with Joni is there, and she talks at some length about DED, and what she was thinking. BTW, you're spot on. :-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:56:01 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: Re: Bad Joni albums? NOT! i'd like to discuss joni's paintings. i see her work changing over time and i particularily like the ttt paintings and colors. pj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:02:20 -0400 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Re: Atlanta Tickets Now Available From bobdylan.com Robert Glenn Plotner wrote: >Hey folks, >Smile! This just got posted to the Bob Dylan Ticket Service. >http://www.well.com/user/smarcus/mailorder.html I would probably jump up and down and dance like an idiot, had I not already shelled out $88(unrefundable) for some seriously mediochre seats because I didn't want to take a chance on the show selling out before I had tickets. I have *nothing* nice to say about BDTS right now! John~ NP "Me" - Paula Cole ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:12:24 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: favorite joni album vote i'm keeping track of all the votes that have come in. i am only using the top 5 choices. let's keep it open until friday this week. send your top five choices to vote@jmdl.com here is a tally of those who have already sent in. (if you listed several first choices, i weighted your choices to reflect an even distribution. if you were non comittal, i weighted your first listed choice as more meaningful than your second.) when we finish, i'll publish everyone's first choice with their sign on. it's neat to see who is the hejira group verses the FTR group. dgrowe kakki paul i codeb pward lrfye harpua who does his own foot surgery artwear catman jonimeister mhart marilune howard M and i know i have the righ howard treadmill rulews evian ewwtaylor m.russell mfeiring danvall messling tleetie jzw notaro ashara barrylauri steve@psitech who is not howard jml ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:19:52 -0400 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Bad Joni albums? NOT! ART - ---------- > From: PMcfad@aol.com > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Bad Joni albums? NOT! > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 2:56 PM > > i'd like to discuss joni's paintings. i see her work changing over time and i > particularily like the ttt paintings and colors. pj I'll get in on a painting discussion! Joni's early art was mostly watercolor & markers. They were simple and the composition was good. She definitely has an "eye" for art. In the beginning her music was simple. I think Both Sides Now has three cords. As she grew musically, she grew more complex in her paintings. I love her TTT work. However, my critique is this: Her style is very much impressionistic. It's been all said and done before. It's one thing to experiment with a style, it's another to create your own. I love her photo- graphy. I see that as a style all her own. I'd like to see her bring that creativity into her paintings. I have seen photos of paintings she did around the Mingus timeline. They were pure abstract. I thought she was going in that direction. I can't wait for the coffee table book of her artwork to be released. Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:16:52 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Men are from Mars (JC) In a message dated 10/21/98 2:14:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << In the moody "Men Are From Mars" and offers up some sensitive but pointed politicizing in "No Apology". >> Both song titles are wrong, are they not? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:27:17 -0400 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: favorite joni album vote - ---------- > From: PMcfad@aol.com > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: favorite joni album vote > Date: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 3:12 PM . > it's neat to see who is the hejira group verses the FTR group. I'm sure everyone sees the distinct style change from the FTR & back as apposed to C&S on. I personally think that of the early stuff FTR is the best in the bunch! Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:22:08 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: favorite joni album vote In a message dated 10/21/98 3:17:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PMcfad@aol.com writes: << here is a tally of those who have already sent in. (if you listed several first choices, i weighted your choices to reflect an even distribution. if you were non committal, i weighted your first listed choice as more meaningful than your second.) >> I probably should have mentioned this earlier in the "voting," but I think it would be even more interesting to know along with each person's votes, what album introduced him or her to Joni's music and what was the newest album out at the time. <> And the Dog Eat Dog group can start their own catfight somewhere else! ;>) Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:32:18 EDT From: Charstarl@aol.com Subject: Re: favorite joni album vote OK, can't let the voice from Spudland go unheard over this JM vote issue.... 1. Hejira (all-time favorite song - Amelia) 2. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 3. Hissing of Summer's Lawns 4. Court and Spark 5. Turbulent Indigo Respectfully submitted, Charstar* in Idahooooooo << vote@jmdl.com >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:35:32 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Jackson Browne "slugfest" (Joni history) > I love Joni, and I think that Not to Blame is an important song that >reaches FAR beyond Jackson Browne, but......I do not believe her when she says >that the specifics she used to illustrate her point are not about him. The >details are spicific and fit him perfectly. She needs to deny it, but her >denial rings false. This is my view, others are welcome to their own. >......Denise >> Her denial is a little weak. On the other hand, if she made an outright public admission that the song was about him, she would be handing him a suit against her on a silver platter! I think this is why he is so angry. He does not have enough standing to sue her in court so he brought the issue into the court of public opinion - the press. Ironically, by doing so, he brought more suspicion and speculation upon himself. I think Joni has also made a comment regarding this brouhaha that "if the shoe fits....." Disclaimer: I love JB's music, O.K.? ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:47:10 -0700 From: bab_news Subject: RE[2]: JMDL - a misunderstood lot (NJC) While trying to catch up with Joni-mail, I saw that the ever-gracious Mary Grace wrote: >When I posted the request for the ani interview, I was pleasantly >surprised to find that a list member from the Bay Area was planning >to attend the concert. I try to never miss a Bay Area Ani-show (or Melissa Ferrick, Ferron, Jane Siberry, Catie Curtis, Chris Webster, Joni, etc), and it's been interesting to see Ani's musical growth over the last few years. >I made plans to have him over for dinner before the show, >(an admittedly bland and insipid chicken spread) But a better dinner than I would have made for myself. :) >and bunk out in the kids' room after the concert. My first full night's sleep in months! >Around 6 PM, my neighbors began their usual parade >checking to see just who the heck MG has over her house for dinner. And all this *before* I put on my black leather. :) >Knowing that my neighbors would be interested in knowing just >where I met this person, (work, barangrill, etc), I prefaced >the introduction with: "this is one of my Joni friends." > >Without fail, they all said: "From the Joni list? Eeewhhh!" I assumed they were responding less to the 'Joni' aspect of the JMDL, and more to the 'cyberspace community' aspect... there are many who view cyber-friendships as less-than-real, or *not* real at all... and while I prefer so see friends face-to-face (and have met over one hundred cyber-friends in 'real' space), meeting folks here (or on any list) has the advantage of disconnecting us from many of the usual filters with which we view the world, filters like age/looks/gender, filters we often use unconsciously to accept/reject people. In the cyber-world we see their thoughts/feelings first, not the superficial external wrapping. Of the 100+ cyber-friends I later met face-to-face, I have been 'surprised' only once, the 'real' meeting not matching my cyber-meeting in any way... these cyber-friendships can be long-lasting, too, with about 90% of my immediate social circle consisting of people I first met online. There have been many stories here of warm JMDL gatherings, and these same stories occur on many lists... people first drawn to each other by common interests (Joni, for example) usually find it easier to accept each other face-to-face. I encourage anyone who has not yet met other JMDLers to attend JMDL gatherings (formal or informal) near them... there are some wonderful people here! >A misunderstood group to say the least. (:-D Not just a cyber-community, we're a Joni-community. No wonder we're viewed as a strange fringe group. :) MG closed with: >BTW, ani was quite good. It was a testament to her >performance that I only slept through 15 minutes of it! MG, if you quit getting up at 4am, you'd be able to stay awake. :) Good thing I taped Ani's show... you can hear what you missed. BAB_NEWS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:54:16 -0400 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: favorite joni album vote Paul wrote: <<>> I've already sent my vote to jmdl.com, but just so's you know it was, in order: HOSL, Blue, NRH, C&S, DED I was introduced to Joni w/ C&S, then Blue, as per the usual recommendations of the rock music guides. I still think both are classic works. Blue, even in its simplicity (somewhat because of it) is just a masterfully affecting work. While I love the complex experiments of the late '70s stuff, I really think HOSL is the fulcrum of her brilliances, balancing the self-aware, "confessional" and stripped-down influences of the earlier stuff with the more intricate lyrical, melodic, and chordal experiments of the later stuff. I know several other people place this fulcrum at C&S or at Hejira, but IMHO HOSL is the most fully realized. I think it's really just a matter of taste. In any case, from the starkness of Blue through the mind-blowing messiness of DJRD, her run of quality material is IMO the most astonishing collection of music ever produced by a pop artist in a span of less than a decade. (Excepting perhaps the Beatles; Stevie Wonder is a close but distinct third.) The most current album when I discovered Joni was TI. In fact, it was even *after* the Grammy win. Hard to believe, but this Christmas will mark only my third anniversary with Joni's music. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:49:54 +0100 From: Christopher Dainty Subject: let;'s hear it for....... eric tylor wrote......... micelangelo. alan touring et al this was a tour de force all grease to your elbow, my friend ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:48:39 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni's art Marilyn wrote: > However, my critique is this: Her style is very much >impressionistic. It's been all said and >done before. It's one thing to experiment with a style, it's another to >create your own. By coincidence, I was pondering this question earlier today and have a theory about it. There has been a movement among painters in California the past few years to improve and expand upon what has gone before in the school of Impressionism. It is called the Plein Air movement, which itself had its roots in the late 1800s, early 1900s among Impressionist painters in California. Joni's current work would not fit strictly into the Plein Air category but contains many elements of it. Also, thanks to Evian here, I looked at the website he recommended for backround on the Canadian Group of Five (or was it seven?) cited by Patrick as one of Joni's influences. You can definitely see their influence on Joni's painting - especially in the colors. I think if we technically examined Joni's latest expressions in painting, we could legitimately judge it as "original." Can't we safely say that most original works contain at least "some" elements of what has been done before? Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:14:41 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: Re: Joni's art I missed Evian's post containing the website URL for a Canadian group of artists that Kakki mentioned. Can one of you repost the address? I wonder if Emily Carr is involved? I think Joni's "current" style, seems more influenced by her then anyone I've seen. More on this topic and her photography when I am not so busy here in the cube. Sherrie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:41:31 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: Atlanta Tickets Now Available From bobdylan.com - -----Original Message----- From: John M. Lind To: joni@smoe.org ; Atlanta@jmdl.com Date: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 3:00 PM Subject: Re: Atlanta Tickets Now Available From bobdylan.com >I have *nothing* nice to say about BDTS right now! Nor I, since they replied to my inquiry on Monday and said they most likely would NOT offer tix. Getting out the binoculars, (hey wait, the ex got the binoculars...shit) Marsha, off to the binocular store ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:57:09 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: Jackson Browne "slugfest" (Joni history) - -----Original Message----- From: Kakki To: Denisongs@aol.com ; joni@smoe.org Date: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 3:47 PM Subject: Re: Jackson Browne "slugfest" (Joni history) >Her denial is a little weak. On the other hand, if she made an outright >public admission that the song was about him, she would be handing him a >suit against her on a silver platter! I think this is why he is so angry. >He does not have enough standing to sue her in court so he brought the issue >into the court of public opinion - the press. Ironically, by doing so, he >brought more suspicion and speculation upon himself. I think Joni has also >made a comment regarding this brouhaha that "if the shoe fits....." Hi, Kakki, And for me the clincher in the actual song is the piano introduction. It is pure JB and his style. The slide notes and all make you think Jackson's voice is going to break out instead of Joni's. It reeks of "The Pretender". Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:17:54 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Title track of TTT In a message dated 10/21/98 4:49:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, David.Wright@oberlin.edu writes: << I DO like the music for this song rather well. How fortunate that she provided an instrumental version for us. Discussion? >> Not being a "word" person, I love the melody of this song and when Tiger Bones comes on, I just sing in Mondegreens. Anyone else? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:34:50 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Title track of TTT >Not being a "word" person, I love the melody of this song and when Tiger Bones >comes on, I just sing in Mondegreens. Anyone else? > >Terry > When I head downstairs to Bedroom Studio Productions, my self-styled recording studio, I now warm up my hands on the keyboard by playing an extended solo with 'Tiger Bones'-- using this delightful little patch on my synth that Yamaha had to good grace to name "Lunar Flute". Just another reason to love TTT -- Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:18:19 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Bad Joni albums? NOT! In a message dated 10/21/98 1:48:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sherrie.good@chronicle.com writes: << Maybe we need to set up a side group to discuss her first career, painter? I would love to. We could take one painting a week and talk about it. Be in no hurry. Any interest? >> I'm interested, but no one is going to like what I have to say. So, can we have a no-flaming policy? Terry ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #429 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?