From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #428 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 21 1998 Volume 03 : Number 428 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Nashville@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- musician mag [BarBearUh ] RE: What's the best Joni album [Howard Motyl ] RE: "New Yorker" article/ now(NJC) [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: what's the best joni album (NJC and self-indulgent) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] RE: "New Yorker" article/ now(NJC) ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Atlanta Tickets Now Available From bobdylan.com [Robert Glenn Plotner ] Re: Disappointed with Joni's tour arrangements [Helen Gill ] Re: Re: Disappointed with Joni's tour arrangements ["Russell George" ] Disappointed with Joni's tour arrangements [pswmusic@interport.net (Esqui] Re: Disappointed with Joni's tour arrangements [Helen Gill ] Best voice NJC [Jeff & Vicki Harris ] Jackson Browne "slugfest" (Joni history) [pswmusic@interport.net (Esquizi] Re: Disappointed with Joni's tour arrangements [LRFye@aol.com] Re: Jackson Browne "slugfest" (Joni history) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V3 #427 Joni best [Marian Rulewski ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:13:37 +0000 From: BarBearUh Subject: musician mag for those of you having a hard time locating it - i know tower records usually carries it. they also have a website (i think it's musicianmag.com, but not sure) where you might be able to order it. barbara np: soul coughing, el oso ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:59:38 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: RE: What's the best Joni album I had to separate these into a sort of ranking . . . Hejira for me, far and away . . . pure genius Blue genius Court and Spark Hissing of Summer Lawns Night Ride Home Turbulent Indigo Wild Things Run Fast these are so close I had to group them together with a sort of ranking within the group Dog Eat Dog Ladies of the Canyon Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm Taming The Tiger For The Roses Song To A Seagull Clouds do I dare say this: I don't really know these albums, I Mingus don't really listen to them, never have but being on this list and hearing people talk about them, I have given them a try Don Juan's Reckless Daughter stinker, except for the brilliant Dreamland ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:05:25 -0400 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: "New Yorker" article/ now(NJC) Julie wrote: <<>> Leaving aside the inherent racism of an assertion that middle-class status and authentic blackness are mutually exclusive states, I have to laugh at the launch of "middle-class" as an epithet from the platform of--of all things!!!--the _New Yorker_. <<>> How nice of Mr. Als to inform us--and Ms. Hill, no doubt--that any racism she thinks she's experienced was merely a bad dream. Now PJ (daughter of a professor, no?)--she's truly oppressed. Could you hand me a flashlight? I'm trying to find the logic he seems to have dropped. <<>> I'll be sure to tell all my black female friends who purchased the record in solidarity to return it lest the authenticity of their blackness be tainted by association with white consumers. If and when sentiments like "It's time to change the focus from the richest to the brokest" or "make the slum lord be the tenant" or "you could get the money, you could get the power, but keep your eyes on the final hour" or "Hip hop started out in the heart / Now everybody trying to chart" become CORPORATE-MINDED (!!!) my work, ladies and gentlemen, will be done. Of course, it's hipper to assume she's lying without a shred of evidence to back up such an assertion. And would someone please inform me what being a "single mom" has to do with corporate-mindedness, liberal guilt, black authenticity or the price of potatoes in Sweden? Of course, what do I know, I'm just a white kid hoping to brush up against The Real, like I am when I cozy up with lyrics like "The white man shall forever sleep with one eye open" (by Me'Shell NdegeOcello). <<>> But, honey-child, when was soul (that is what you're supposedly talking about after all) about suffering ALONE? Or should Otis and Sam and Aretha and Marvin have kept their troubles to themselves? Silly me thought soul aimed toward a little universality... <<>> Mixing your metaphors is a popular crutch when logic won't do, but switching from soul music to the soul mid-argument doesn't serve either very well. Of course, that's begging the question of how a nebulous concept like "soul" is even defined by you. The fact is that the tradition from which PJ Harvey draws is not soul at all, but the blues. She does it brilliantly, yes, but if you want to argue that PJ's music is more "authentic" than Lauryn Hill's, what you really want to argue is that the blues is more authentic than soul, as both artists are tremendously gifted interpreters and shapers of their chosen media. So go ahead and waste your time with that academic and self-aggrandizing argument; I've got a Lauryn Hill record to listen to and a PJ Harvey concert to attend. - --Michael, who admits he's not read the whole article and is probably taking things out of context, but a couple of these statements are so ridiculous that yards of context won't save them NP: TTT NR: Sylvia Plath, _The Bell Jar_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:18:50 -0700 From: Don Sloan Subject: Re: what's the best joni album > 15 . Chalk Mark in a Rainstorm (I'm sure TTT is at least better than this > one) > > > > > 25. Dog Eat Dog (I'm sure I'll like Joni's next 10 albums better than this > one) > > Paul I I recently heard DED for the first time and admit it may require many more listenings for appreciation to grow. But reading the above, got the best laugh I've had in days. Thanks, Paul!! For the record, I can't make a list as there'd be at least 6 titles tied for 1st (or would that be tied for 6th?). Don ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:37:54 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: what's the best joni album (NJC and self-indulgent) In a message dated 10/20/98 9:15:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Harpua@revealed.net writes: << I have been known to perform surgery on my big toes with pens and pencils... ;D >> And you probably pick your feet in Poughkeepsie. Gene Hackman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:35:23 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: RE: "New Yorker" article/ now(NJC) At 09:05 PM 10/20/98 -0400, Michael wrote: >Of course, what do I know, I'm just a white kid hoping to brush up >against The Real, like I am when I cozy up with lyrics like "The white >man shall forever sleep with one eye open" (by Me'Shell NdegeOcello). Michael, I'm not at all surprised at your reaction. Since your post, and other private emails, had asked me for the name of the white British singer who Hilton Als was referring to, I couldn't help but share this man's opinion as well. I knew it would open a good debate, which you know I love. I also think, Michael, that you might want to consider submitting your post to the editor of "The New Yorker." Id be interested in hearing more opinions from other jmdlers too. -JulieZW ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:44:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Glenn Plotner Subject: Atlanta Tickets Now Available From bobdylan.com Hey folks, Smile! This just got posted to the Bob Dylan Ticket Service. http://www.well.com/user/smarcus/mailorder.html November 7th( Saturday) 7:00 p.m. Atlanta, Georgia Mail Order Ticket Prices: $62.50 & $42.50 per ticket reserved Mail Order Limit: 4 tickets per person, per order Seats that are available to Mail Order: Top price are in lower part of sections 7, 8 & 9. Lower priced tickets are in upper part of sections 7, 8 & 9. Tickets are extremely limited. Only mail in date:Thursday October 22nd. Outlet on sale date: On sale now at local outlets. Seating Chart Capacity: 7,000 approximately Please note that mail orders for Atlanta will be sent back via Express Mail, Priority Mail or may be left at Will Call. Best wishes, Robert == Thought Experiments, The Metaphysical Think Tank http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thoughtexperiments _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:05:29 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: "New Yorker" article/ now(NJC) - -----Original Message----- From: Michael Yarbrough To: 'Joni' Date: Tuesday, October 20, 1998 9:12 PM Subject: RE: "New Yorker" article/ now(NJC) >Leaving aside the inherent racism of an assertion that middle-class >status and authentic blackness are mutually exclusive states, I have >to laugh at the launch of "middle-class" as an epithet from the platform >of--of all things!!!--the _New Yorker_. HAHAHA! Michael!!!! Loved your critique of the critique.... I pretend I am hearing Dennis Miller while reading your words, and wonder: Is MYarb DMiller's ghost writer? Marsha, wonders why these articles such as Als' set up comparisons like this to elevate one by slamming another ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:15:16 +1000 (EST) From: Helen Gill Subject: Re: Disappointed with Joni's tour arrangements On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Gerald McNamara wrote: > We Aussies would pay huge amounts of money to see Joni (, right guys ??). > We'd travel across the burning desert. I'd travel TO the burning desert to see Joni play in the middle if that's what it took. oooh you can imagine Joni playing all Hejira songs standing in the middle on her own.......and then a big 4wd speeding past. Or what about Joni playing in the middle of a burning DESSERT? that could be a highlight. she could open the show by popping up out of a souffle. > She's been out here only once. In 1983. Yeah, and what hope did I have of seeing her then when I was only 'knee high to a grasshopper'! So get back out here Joni, in the SUMMERTIME... lah lahah la. helly. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:22:06 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: what's the best joni album I was surprized that everyone but Mark left out Shadows & Light and Miles Of Aisles. And no one included Hits and Misses. This is exceedingly difficult, and it changes all the time, but here's tonight's order. 1. Shadows & Light 2. Hejira 3. Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 4. Turbulent Indigo 5. Taming The Tiger 6. Night Ride Home 7. For The Roses 8. Court & Spark 9. Blue 10. Chalk Mark In A Rain Storm 11. Dog Eat Dog 12. Wild Things Run Fast 13. Mingus 14. The Hissing Of Summer Lawns 15. Ladies Of The Canyon 16. Song To A Seagull 17. Clouds 18. Misses (it seems disjointed) 19. Miles Of Aisles 20. Hits (My top ten favorite songs are: Turbulent Indigo, Amelia, Slouching Towards Bethlehem, The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey, Paprika Plains, Woman Of Heart & Mind, Fiction, Down To You, Borderline, and Stay In Touch.) E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:20:14 +1000 From: "Russell George" Subject: Re: Re: Disappointed with Joni's tour arrangements > > We Aussies would pay huge amounts of money to see Joni (, right guys ??). > We'd travel across the burning desert. > > She's been out here only once. In 1983. > On that tour she played at the Sydney Opera House. > Incidentally,... today (Oct 20) is the 25th anniversary > of the opening of the Opera House. > We're sending out our prayers (wondering who's there to hear), > for a second Joni tour. > > -Gerald Mc > I was just saying to a friend this morning I would travel as far as New Zealand to see Joni (not that I expect her to play there!). I can't quite justify a round trip airfare to America though. We Aussies have just seen Dylan tour with Patti Smith - not that I've got anything against Patti (she was fantastic), but you guys in the States have got a much better deal I reckon. I'd give ANYTHING for a Joni tour of Australia... Russell NP: Joe Jackson - Night and Day ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:21:16 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Chicago Tickets Available Anyone need tickets? Here's 2 extra for Sunday, 10/25 at the United Center. Section 104 Row 8 Seat 5, 6 Ticketmaster tickets. Email me for details if you're interested. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:22:57 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: musician mag/Vanity Fair Are there two Musician mags? The one I saw had no mention of Joni. The cover had something about vocalists and was in black and white. Is this the right one? It was the Nov. issue. While I'm at it, Vanity Fair listed the most important women in America and rated Joni up there with a group of "divas", including Madonna. Don't bother looking for a great photo, it was a page of caricatures that didn't do justice to any of them. They described Joni as The Troubled Child and mentioned her new CD. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:47:02 EDT From: Leenycas@aol.com Subject: Musician Interview I went to Musician mags web site as suggested by someone on the list (musicianmag.com). The interview is in the December issue and there is an online interview on the web site. I'm not sure, but I think this in addition to the printed interview in the magazine. Colleen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:50:42 -0700 From: Anne Madden Subject: Lucinda Williams Concert, NJC Last Wednesday I had the pleasure of seeing Lucinda Williams in concert in Toronto. I had a wonderful view as I was only a few feet from the stage. Her peformance exceeded my expectations - she was absolutely brilliant. It was the best concert I was every at in my life!!!! I took a friend who had no idea who Lucinda williams was and when she came away she was totally in awe. Her band was incredible. She sang 21 songs and just blew the crowd away. Her vocals were just absolutely amazing. The raw emotion in her voice and the beauty and poetry in her lyrics made the listener believe every word that was singing - it was like being in a drama. Lucinda is probably one of the most under-rated musicans in showbiz. Like Joni, she doesn't always conform to what others consider to be the norm - she shuns commercialism and doesn't compromise - she has a lot of integrity and is a very respected singer/songwriter. After her concert she received glowing reviews from the Toronto media. They called her album a "masterpiece" and said every one of the tracks were "exquisite". If Lucinda doesn't win a Grammy for Album of the Year, there is no justice. She is an amazing talent. If you don't own Car Wheels on A Gravel Road, you don't know what you are missing! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:07:21 -0400 (EDT) From: pswmusic@interport.net (Esquizito) Subject: Disappointed with Joni's tour arrangements >Am I the only one who is disappointed in Joni's tour arrangements? Not at all. I didn't warm up to the idea of the MSG show, thus didn't go outta my way for tix. Thus, what was left by NOON on 1st day of sale made me turn of my heels. The arena at MSG is no place for Joni IMO, maybe not even Dylan - although I don't have a great deal invested in wanting to see him at all. He always has agreat band but, I can't relax and get inside of the incredible songwriting - ya' know what I'm sayin'? I'd had never seen Joni live until N.O. JazzFest; that performance so greatly satiated me, that I'd like to leave it at that - Could anything ever top it? Joni, by herself out-of-doors, in the setting sun - the end of an already incredible music day. Heavenly vibe! I paid $8.00 - Should I apologize now to those who weren't there? Still, to those who will see her on this tour: My Best To You. Esquizito www.interport.net/~pswmusic ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:26:25 +1000 (EST) From: Helen Gill Subject: Re: Disappointed with Joni's tour arrangements I wrote; >> Or what >> about Joni playing in the middle of a burning DESSERT? that could be a >> highlight. and Gerald replied; > sounds like Joni of Arc..... > or Bombe Alaska. Gerald, had to forward to list, LOL! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:43:54 -0400 From: Jeff & Vicki Harris Subject: Best Joni Albums NJC (I can't resist someone asking for my opinion) :>) ...the envelope please.... 10. dog eat dog 9. clouds 8. TTT 7. CMIARS 6. HOSL 5. TI 4. NRH 3. Blue 2. FTR ...and the winner is... 1. C&S, Hejira (tie) Vicki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:54:24 -0400 From: Jeff & Vicki Harris Subject: Best voice NJC Now, if we're voting on singing only... 1. TTT 2. TI 3. NRH 4. CMIARS do you see a pattern here? :>) Vicki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:04:54 -0400 (EDT) From: pswmusic@interport.net (Esquizito) Subject: Jackson Browne "slugfest" (Joni history) >1997: That infamous US rag, the National Enquirer, slings it's mud Joni's >way in today's issue, saying about the tiff with Jackson Browne "Joni was >busy in the recording studio and would not comment publicly on the song. >But she told a friend: 'Jackson thinks everything has to do with him. He >needs to get life.' The rock heartthrob-who told an interviewer that >Mitchell twice attacked him physically-called her song '100 percent wrong' >and added: 'She's not really well.'" This is the first I'm hearing of this. Yo, I'm I crazy or what? JB seems to have some serious problems with women! The NI reeks, this time of irony - with all this alusion to "slugfest." Not really well, Esquizito www.interport.net/~pswmusic ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:30:43 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Disappointed with Joni's tour arrangements Esquizito wrote: > I'd had never seen Joni live until N.O. JazzFest; that performance > so greatly satiated me, that I'd like to leave it at that - Could anything > ever top it? Joni, by herself out-of-doors, in the setting sun - the end of > an already incredible music day. Heavenly vibe! I paid $8.00 - Should I > apologize now to those who weren't there? That was a great performance, wasn't it? My first time seeing Joni, too ... although I paid $15 (Ticketbastards again, but I don't think I can complain). However, I couldn't leave it at that, so I went to A Day In The Garden. Blew my chance to be right up front with the JMDLers by choosing to hang with the friends who traveled with me from TX and CA instead. I guess that's okay; part of the reason I went was for the opportunity to stand with my best friend during Joni's performance of "Woodstock," and I couldn't convince Vanessa to wade to the front with me (nevermind trying to convince three drunkards to get up early for the gate opening). We were pretty close to the stage, and I was fairly happy with our position. I think Joni's performance in New York was better than the New Orleans show. But I won't rest until I see Joni one more time, and from the first row! Alas, it looks as if it's not to be, at least not this go-round. My disappointment with the current tour (besides Joni playing second fiddle to Bob) is that there isn't a concert scheduled for Austin, Texas, where I just know Joni would be received warmly and probably sell out. Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:39:28 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Jackson Browne "slugfest" (Joni history) In a message dated 10/21/98 1:08:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pswmusic@interport.net writes: << But she told a friend: 'Jackson thinks everything has to do with him. He >needs to get life.' The rock heartthrob-who told an interviewer that >Mitchell twice attacked him physically-called her song '100 percent wrong' >and added: 'She's not really well.'" This is the first I'm hearing of this. Yo, I'm I crazy or what? JB seems to have some serious problems with women! The NI reeks, this time of irony - with all this alusion to "slugfest." >> I know there are always new people joining the list, but this is old, old news and I hope we don't have to rehash it. Nothing will be accomplished. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:51:30 +1000 From: Marian Rulewski Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V3 #427 Joni best I'm not going to give a history of myself, I'll just choose. 1. Blue 2. Court & Spark 3. Taming The Tiger 4. Ladies Of The Canyon 5. Clouds Have a nice day all. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:23:01 -0600 From: Evian Subject: the best Joni albums Well, this list will change, but I have a thing for listing things, so, here goes. Keep in mind TTT is not included... can't decide what gets bumped to fit it in yet: 1. C & S -- Tough call, but DAMN, I rarely tire of it. 2. Blue -- this is what got me into Joni, so it ranks right up there. 3. HOSL -- May move up a notch in a yr... I love it more and more each day. 4. Hejira -- this may move up someday too if I ever take a long road trip. 5. DED -- LOVE IT!! Brilliant!!! Hmmm, maybe this should be #4.... 6. NRH -- "Nothing can be done" shoulda been a bigger hit then Help Me, which kinda sorta.... irritates me sometimes. 7. FTR-- I think this album could move up the list too, since I didn't really give it too much attention until I joined the list... but I have misplaced it for 4 months now... when I find it again, I am sure it will move up. 8. TI -- This one took a long time to grow on me, but it was well worth the wait. 9. CMIARS -- Growing on me more and more too... 11. LOTC -- Good one too, but I rarely listen to it anymore... hmmm, gonna dig it out right now. 12. DJRD-- The title track and "Offnight Backstreet" rate in my top 10 of fave Joni songs. This is my most recent Joni cd apart from TTT since it was deleted in Canada, so I have only had it a year or so... still discovering it. 13. WTRF- Also growing on me still, and while I love about 5 tracks on it, it just isn't my fave. 14. CLOUDS - I have never given this one a fair shot, as I said a long time ago, it just seems somehow dated to me. 15 . Mingus- also haven't given it a fair shot... it is the one album where I can't automatically sing the words to at least one song... (except happy b-day!) 16. STOS - Sorry, I know so many of you love this one, but it ain't my cup of tea. (There, Ashara, I said it! I don't dig this album! hehehehe, all your blackmailing plans are out the window ;) (sorry, private joke) Oh lordy, just reread this... I wanna move up DED already! Yikes! This is hard to do! Cheers, Evian ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #428 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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