From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #421 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, October 16 1998 Volume 03 : Number 421 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Nashville@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: What a Day in the (Joni) Life! [Rob Jordan ] Finally got TTT in NZ! and Man From Mars poll.....which version is better? ["Jos B" ] Re: What a Day in the (Joni) Life! [RMuRocks@aol.com] TTT and Joni's pipes [Jeff & Vicki Harris ] TTT [ae515@lafn.org (Victor King)] Matt Shepard [Kai Wong ] Re: (NJC) An objectionable Website [MHart16164@aol.com] Re: What a Day in the (Joni) Life! [Mark or Travis ] Apologies (NJC) [Kai Wong ] more overheard joni in chi-town [Wolfebite@aol.com] Re: more overheard joni in chi-town (njc) [Gellerray@aol.com] Fwd: Have We Come Too Close?- now NJC whatever.... [Wolfebite@aol.com] Re: Have We Come Too Close? (response to jc) [Gellerray@aol.com] Re: Have We Come Too Close? [MHart16164@aol.com] Bumper Sticker (Draft) [Roger Walker ] Re: Bumper Sticker (Draft) [Jerry Notaro ] tolerance - absolutely NJC [Mary Grace Valentinsson ] ani difranco which probably makes it NJC [Mary Grace Valentinsson ] Re: TTT (NJC and self-indulgent) ["Marsha" ] Re: (NJC) Matthew Shepard resolution now [David Wright ] Word of the Day (NJC) ["Marsha" ] VG-8--for tour or studio [Howard Motyl ] Re: TTT (NJC and self-indulgent) [Drewdix@aol.com] Re: TTT (NJC and self-indulgent) [catman ] some video information [Mary Grace Valentinsson ] MSG Show - 1 Ticket Available [Bounced Message ] Re: No Subject [Drewdix@aol.com] Gay/Clinton - NJC [Kai Wong ] RE: the ani article ["John T. Folden" ] RE: (NJC) Matthew Shepard resolution now ["John T. Folden" ] Today in Joni History - October 17 [Today in Joni History ] RE: the ani article ["Dougher, Lillian W." ] Re: Finally got TTT in NZ! and Man From Mars poll.....which version is better? ["Kakki" ] JONI SPECIAL - NOV 8th.(CANADA) [Bounced Message ] Re: Have We Come Too Close? [Rob Jordan ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:35:03 +0100 From: Rob Jordan Subject: Re: What a Day in the (Joni) Life! At 22:05 14/10/98 EDT, RMuRocks@aol.com wrote: >Changing gears, regarding the lyrics to "No Apologies", I've been thinking >about the "Lawyers & loan sharks" stuff, and it seems to me that lawyers as >well as loan sharks would have little or no influence in the world without >CLIENTS. Bob, My theory is that Joni targets Lawyers and Loan sharks, chiefly because they both start with the letter L, and therefore provide a lot of alliteration for the lovely lady. It might have been "Dentists and decorators are dumping America in the ditch". Although I would have preferred "Generals and GIs are jeopardising justice in Japan", which seems to fit the context of the song a lot better. Rob np: Miseducation - Lauryn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 03:12:37 PDT From: "Jos B" Subject: Finally got TTT in NZ! and Man From Mars poll.....which version is better? Hi from NZ all..... Well I finally got TTT!! I wasn't expecting it so soon, after going into a record shop last week and asking yet AGAIN when it was coming in. The guy said that the record company had delayed the release or something. Anyway I finally saw it in a record store yesterday (the only copy under 'Joni Mitchell' in the J's. They had TI, and Hits as well as NRH which I bought too. (I only had NRH on tape)). Anyway the album....... I still like TI better I think....The songs on that album have more distinct melodies or something. Songs I like off TTT, are TTT and MFM. I still like the MFM version from 'Grace of my Heart' soundtrack, it has much more raw emotion to it. The TTT version to me is a little muted by the synth nature of the backing track. So a poll!! =========== Who prefers which version of Man from Mars??? (My apologies if someone has done this already....I only joined the list recently) TTT booklet....Someone said on here they didn't have all the paintings in their booklet? My CD is manufactured by Warner Bros Australia, so here is what my booklet looks like. Cover (page 1) Back of cover blank (page 2) Idyll, idol, ideal, idle pic (page3) HIH words (page4) Autumn tree etc pic (page5) MFM, LPOANF words (page6) Cat pic in grass (page7) LB and NA words (page8) Man reading pic (Don?) (page9) THT (page10) TCCOL (page11) Centerfold Hand on knee pic (page12) SIT words(page13) Mans profile against city pic(page14) FL words (page15) Joni and deer pic (page16) MBTY words, TB title(page17) Sunset w/sea on rocks pic (page18) Credits (page19(inside cover)) Cat w/vases pic (page20(back cover)) Hope I didn't bore ya! Booklet tip......on the cd cover that the booklet fits into, break off the 3 little guide tabs, leaving only the tops ones....they are quite easy to break off, and you can get the booklet in and out real easy by sliding it just into the top ones..... Seeya next time!! Jos ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:55:10 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: world cafe special WXPN, the Philadelphia home of World Cafe, will be rerunning the two-hour Joni Mitchell special this Saturday from noon to 2pm. I don't know if other stations re-run their World Cafe programs, but I guess it's worth finding out. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:10:42 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: What a Day in the (Joni) Life! In a message dated 10/16/98 2:07:33 AM Central Daylight Time, rob.jordan@which.net writes: << My theory is that Joni targets Lawyers and Loan sharks, chiefly because they both start with the letter L, and therefore provide a lot of alliteration for the lovely lady. It might have been "Dentists and decorators are dumping America in the ditch". >> Interesting alliteration inference, Rob! And I'd rather see my lawyer than my dentist any day! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:14:39 -0400 From: Jeff & Vicki Harris Subject: TTT and Joni's pipes After many many listenings, I seem to be falling in with those of you who feel that TTT is a bit repetitive. (both repeating itself AND repeating earlier works...Magdeline Laundries, etc.) Lyrically, (just my opinion, of course) I can't say Joni reaches the level of artistry she has in the past. However, even at less than her finest hour, Joni's music is still deeper and more meaningful to me than any other. There is no other artist that shows me something new with each listening; even after 20 years. I'm sure I'll be listening to TTT 20 years from now. That being said...was anyone else stunned by the sound of Joni's voice on this CD? I think it's maturity more than cigarettes, but her voice keeps getting better (both in sound and her ability to share the emotion of the song). Bring on the standards, Joni...no one else will sing them better. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:19:59 -0700 From: ae515@lafn.org (Victor King) Subject: TTT The electronic guitar may help Joni while touring, but it ruined TTT. Many of the tracks sound identical--listen to the first few bars of each song. The electronic guitar makes everything sound the same, even when she plays in a different key. Also, the sound is hollow, without any of the hard edges that help define the shape of the sound. The sound of Joni's fingernails on an acoustic guitar when she scrapes the wood incidentally as she plucks the strings gives the songs on TI and NRH an extra dimension that is totally missing from TTT. - -- ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 98 09:20:59 EDT From: Kai Wong Subject: Matt Shepard Thank you for sharing. I was outraged to learn that some reverend (Phelps?) wanted to picket the funeral. How sick can you get? One reason I like Bill Clinton is that he is the first president who is truly comfortable working with gays and lesbians, people of color, women (no jokes please) AND corporate America. I know a lot of people dislike him intensely but sometimes I wonder which of his policies they really hate so much. Education? Hate Crimes? Economic? Ireland? Environment? Kai ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:23:57 EDT From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) An objectionable Website In a message dated 98-10-15 18:32:49 EDT, Charlotte wrote: << In case no one has heard, the Westboro Babtist Church will be picketing Mr. Shepard's funeral. If you're not familiar with the WBC or Mr. Phelps, you should take a peek at their website. The address, shockingly enough is www.godhatesfags.com Oh, and be sure to read the FAG, it's just lovely (yes, that's dripping with sarcasm). The whole thing makes me incredibly angry. This guy is nuts! >> I agree with you! I can't believe a "christian" organization can be filled with so much hatred. I heard on the news that they were saying that it was Mr. Shepard's parents' fault that he wasn't raised right. What a horrible comment to them given the incredible loss they are experiencing. So much for christian love and charity. Makes you wish the earth would open up and swallow them up! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:31:15 -0700 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: What a Day in the (Joni) Life! Rob Jordan wrote: > > At 22:05 14/10/98 EDT, RMuRocks@aol.com wrote: > >Changing gears, regarding the lyrics to "No Apologies", I've been thinking > >about the "Lawyers & loan sharks" stuff, and it seems to me that lawyers as > >well as loan sharks would have little or no influence in the world without > >CLIENTS. > > Bob, > > My theory is that Joni targets Lawyers and Loan sharks, chiefly because > they both start with the letter L, and therefore provide a lot of > alliteration for the lovely lady. It might have been "Dentists and > decorators are dumping America in the ditch". Although I would have > preferred "Generals and GIs are jeopardising justice in Japan", which seems > to fit the context of the song a lot better. My personal take is that the song is about bullies. Or people with power who act like big meglomaniacal bullies. 'So what makes a man a man in these tough times'; 'snakes & snails & puppy tails are wagging in the wound'. Lawyers and loan sharks could encompass a fairly large spectrum. A lot of politicians are lawyers. You could consider banks in general as loan sharks. I don't think we should be too literal in reading this song but I don't think the words were chosen strictly at random for the sake of alliteration (although that obviously was a consideration). Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:40:38 EDT From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Like Howard's Grocery Song in Suburban Chicago Last night during dinner, I was listening to C&S. My three children,aged 17, 13 and 11, who do not share the same love of Joni that I do (shocking, huh?) were also supping with me. I have made them listen to Joni, over and over since they were babies, sang it to them, danced around to it with them in my arms. Anyway, the song "Help Me" came on. Right in the middle of bites of food, all three of them broke out into, "Hellllllllllllllllpppppp Me, I think I'm falling in love with you......" It really was funny and maybe you had to be there, but I thought I would share that. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:53:39 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: for whatever reasons... ...i woke this morning and was thinking about joni's appearance on rosie however long ago. As I was not a list subscriber at the time I missed the discussion of said appearance and was wondering: after joni played (Harry's House wasn't it?) and made her mistake, while hugging Rosie she referred to it--and what did she say does anyone know? Was it "I had a little climber..." Did she call her mistake a climber? I've never been able to tell. Also, however inane, I wondered Was Joni able to actually "shut up" for a week? Does anyone know? These questions were followed by, while I still lay in bed, the thought: What if Janis (Joplin, of course) were still alive today? I wonder what her and Joni would think of one another--and wouldn't it be cool to sort of see them sittin around talking to each other? Maybe John Kelly should add a Janis character to his act--it would be such a cool contrast--to see the roadhouse mama's mature reaction to the "flower child" she knew once. I mean: what would Janis Joplin have thought of Hejira!!!!???? And by the way I know that Janis was, herself, a very very sensitive girl--and a visual artist who put down her brush after deciding that her talent wasn't great enough. In fact, it is these sorts of details that make the combination seem so delicious IMHO. r NP: RUFUS WAINWRIGHT ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:54:57 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Have We Come Too Close? I get the feeling that this subject's orbited the jmdl in the past, but I'd still like to see what some of you are thinking. For me, it started last night, listening to 'Harlem in Havana.' You see, I have an Auntie Ruthie, though my childhood memory is not one of a carnival hoochie-koochie show -- but a film. Her oldest daughter, my cousin Beth (a cheeky girl, a flirt) worked as an usher at the downtown Atlanta Texas movie theatre. Well, when Stanley Kubrik's "A Clockwork Orange" came to town, needless to say, it was the bane of the Southern Baptists - -- and my Aunt Ruth was an elder of the congregation. So to make a long story short, Beth snuck me and two of my younger cousins in through the exit doors of the theatre one night -- and believe me, Auntie Ruthie would have died if she knew we were on the inside. In fact, I still haven't told her about it -- and it's, oh god, 25+ years later ... Well, the worst damage "A Clockwork Orange" inflicted was to ruin 'Singin' in the Rain' for me for about 10 years ... but here's my point, and the reason that this post isn't labeled NJC, just in case some of you were wondering. HiH is beautiful in it's childlike wonder -- and is that something we've lost with respect to Joni's music? I mean, we dissect her life, watch the mags and websites like a black crow, and then diving down to pick up on any shiny Joni thing ... we've mapped her tunings, memorized the lyrics to 20 albums ... found out who Sharon, Amelia, Edith, Richard, Otis, Marlena, Anna, Furry and Sophia REALLY are. All Joni mysteries made clear ... so -- Have we come too close? Are we no longer capable of listening in wonder? Are we doomed to try and prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that TTT is not *as good as* 'Hejira' of 'HOSL'? The recent contrast between some of the more exuberant reviews (Billboard's comes to mind)juxtaposed with the detailed comparison analysis of the list makes me think, wistfully, that perhaps we have. Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 98 09:58:13 EDT From: Kai Wong Subject: Apologies (NJC) Sorry for the CNN post about lower interest rates yesterday. It was meant for my partner in NYC, who is trying to get a mortgage and have been praying for lower rates. I was wondering why he never received it. Email can be a very dangerous thing. I have decided not to use my work email to receive and post anymore. Kai np: Joao Gilberto/Stan Getz Kai ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:08:10 EDT From: Wolfebite@aol.com Subject: more overheard joni in chi-town so i was off to buy some toothpaste at the walgreens (named for scandahoovian drug store tychoon) and i was trying to sing 'harlem in havana' to myself- a difficult song to sing if you don't smoke 20 packs of cigarettes a day- and i entered said walgreens and 'conversation' was blasting out of the P.A. system- and I mean blasting! some employee must have bumped up the volume control with their butt while stacking boxes of trojans in the store-room.... dog ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:17:54 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: more overheard joni in chi-town (njc) hilarious--dogie, hilarious. r NP:rufus (wainwright--not the chaka kahn band) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:36:12 EDT From: Wolfebite@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Have We Come Too Close?- now NJC whatever.... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_908548573_boundary Content-ID: <0_908548573@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII a purely tangential post in response to a message dated 98-10-16 09:57:48 EDT, dgrowe@hotmail.com writes: << Have we come too close? Are we no longer capable of listening in wonder? >> Funny- I'm thinking/reading about this right now- and maybe, just maybe, it will full circle around into someones head or heart and become joni content.... reading about Thoreau, and his writing... recalling a moment when he was awakened by something in the woods and saw the glow of phosporescent wood. He wrote, "I was in just the frame of mind to see something wonderful,... and this was a phenomenon adequate to my circumstances and expectations... (I) let science slide, and rejoiced in that light as if it had been a fellow- creature,...." I've been thinking about this lately as well- in regards to TTT, and my expectations.... prior to joining the list, any new joni albumn was a complete 'out of the blue' experience- one of immediate surprise. I never paid attention enough to any media source that might tell me about upcoming releases, so I never knew to anticipate a new release. Also- my 'research' into Joni was cursory- a stumbled upon article here or there- something sent by a friend- so I had little clue of her except what I could glean from her music. On my first listening to the store-bought version of TTT, I realized I knew most of the songs already (quite well), and mentally analysized the work based on all types of prior information regarding the release... 'how does the cd version enhance or improve the nth - generation tape experiences i already had', etc... I had hoped for a revelation or something new and wonderful to strike me.... (Stay in Touch was it!) I couldn't enter that frame of mind that allowed me to see the wonder- or maybe the work didn't provide the adequate circumstance to by-pass the rational or intellectual? I don't know- but my experience of this release is water-down from previous releases (from DJRD up to TI- the period during which i was buying new releases). So- perhaps that is the downside of two much information.... but the otherside of it is.... I KNOW ALL OF YOU and HAVE SUCH FABULOUS JONI STUFF and INSIGHT AND INFO... so both side of me- the geeky archivist and the bohemian wonderer- are weighing against each other in a tug-of-balance. so- for the next album release by ms. joan- i'll delete all mentions and discussion of it so i can just be surprised.... or something like that.... i need coffee and little powdered doughnuts. chow babies doug - --part0_908548573_boundary Content-ID: <0_908548573@inet_out.mail.hotmail.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zd05.mx.aol.com (rly-zd05.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.229]) by air-zd03.mail.aol.com (v50.19) with SMTP; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:57:48 -0400 Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by rly-zd05.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id JAA14587; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smoe.org (080020908e73.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.147.247]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA20418; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:57:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) with SMTP id JAA05013; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by smoe.org (bulk_mailer v1.10); Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:56:23 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) id JAA04973 for joni-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:55:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com (f87.hotmail.com [207.82.250.193]) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/daemon-mode-relay2) with SMTP id JAA04969 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 23517 invoked by uid 0); 16 Oct 1998 13:54:58 -0000 Message-ID: <19981016135458.23516.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.83.139.130 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:54:57 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.83.139.130] From: "Don Rowe" To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Have We Come Too Close? Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:54:57 PDT Sender: owner-joni@smoe.org Reply-To: "Don Rowe" Precedence: bulk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I get the feeling that this subject's orbited the jmdl in the past, but I'd still like to see what some of you are thinking. For me, it started last night, listening to 'Harlem in Havana.' You see, I have an Auntie Ruthie, though my childhood memory is not one of a carnival hoochie-koochie show -- but a film. Her oldest daughter, my cousin Beth (a cheeky girl, a flirt) worked as an usher at the downtown Atlanta Texas movie theatre. Well, when Stanley Kubrik's "A Clockwork Orange" came to town, needless to say, it was the bane of the Southern Baptists - -- and my Aunt Ruth was an elder of the congregation. So to make a long story short, Beth snuck me and two of my younger cousins in through the exit doors of the theatre one night -- and believe me, Auntie Ruthie would have died if she knew we were on the inside. In fact, I still haven't told her about it -- and it's, oh god, 25+ years later ... Well, the worst damage "A Clockwork Orange" inflicted was to ruin 'Singin' in the Rain' for me for about 10 years ... but here's my point, and the reason that this post isn't labeled NJC, just in case some of you were wondering. HiH is beautiful in it's childlike wonder -- and is that something we've lost with respect to Joni's music? I mean, we dissect her life, watch the mags and websites like a black crow, and then diving down to pick up on any shiny Joni thing ... we've mapped her tunings, memorized the lyrics to 20 albums ... found out who Sharon, Amelia, Edith, Richard, Otis, Marlena, Anna, Furry and Sophia REALLY are. All Joni mysteries made clear ... so -- Have we come too close? Are we no longer capable of listening in wonder? Are we doomed to try and prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that TTT is not *as good as* 'Hejira' of 'HOSL'? The recent contrast between some of the more exuberant reviews (Billboard's comes to mind)juxtaposed with the detailed comparison analysis of the list makes me think, wistfully, that perhaps we have. Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - --part0_908548573_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:47:42 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: Have We Come Too Close? (response to jc) i have been wondering much the same, don. i really have--in fact, thank you for articulating it so well. I have been at a sort of loss to do so. ray across the mississip. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:58:28 EDT From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Re: Have We Come Too Close? In a message dated 98-10-16 09:58:05 EDT, Don Rowe wrote: << ...we dissect her life, watch the mags and websites like a black crow, and then diving down to pick up on any shiny Joni thing ... we've mapped her tunings, memorized the lyrics to 20 albums ... found out who Sharon, Amelia, Edith, Richard, Otis, Marlena, Anna, Furry and Sophia REALLY are. All Joni mysteries ... made clear ... so -- Have we come too close? Are we no longer capable of listening in wonder? Are we doomed to try and prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that TTT is not *as good as* 'Hejira' of 'HOSL'?...>> Being a recent JMDL lister, I am still bound in the mystery of who sharon, otis and marlena are...but I haven't gotten too close to the forest to see the trees. We all do that to things we love, try to get close, sometimes losing sight of the entire thing that drew us near in the first place. I love TTT as much as any other albums. One question out there...what song (if you could possibly pick one) by JM moved you (or anyone) first or the touched you the most??? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:00:46 -0400 From: Roger Walker Subject: Bumper Sticker (Draft) The *draft* BUMPER STICKER is up on the web for your input and suggestions. Please point your browser to it and have a look! http://users.erinet.com/2820/Taxi-Bumper-Sticker.htm c ya.... - -- rog ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:10:10 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Bumper Sticker (Draft) Great job! Jerry Roger Walker wrote: > The *draft* BUMPER STICKER is up on the web for your input and > suggestions. Please point your browser to it and have a look! > > http://users.erinet.com/2820/Taxi-Bumper-Sticker.htm > > c ya.... > -- > > rog ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:26:23 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: tolerance - absolutely NJC from a member: >>I am a religious person and try at all times to keep my specific beliefs off this list. I think tolerance is the best form of spreading love. It is! I love this thought about tolerance and try to keep it as part of my life and pass it onto my children and parakeet. I would beg to differ about one's specific beliefs and encourage you to share them because that's education and expanding horizons which is an integral part of mastering the art of tolerance. The funny thing about tolerance, though, is that I don't believe most people understand it or at the very least, they tend to lose sight of its importance. When a person's religious, sexual, political or emotional views make one feel threatened or shine a harsh light on one's vulnerabilities, the practice of tolerance often comes crashing down. It's tough to be tolerant and that's when it is needed the most. "Heart and humor and humility....." to sneak in some JC just for kicks. MG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:26:08 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: Apologies (NJC) Kai wrote: >Sorry for the CNN post about lower interest rates yesterday. It was meant for >my partner in NYC, who is trying to get a mortgage and have been praying for >lower rates. I was wondering why he never received it. That's OK, Kai. It was the best news I got all day anywhere! Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:35:36 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: ani difranco which probably makes it NJC I'm taking Signe to the ani difranco concert tonight at UCD and would like to talk with her about ani's politics and feminism and throw in some Joni content as well. With that in mind - can anyone out there forward me a copy of the ani/joni interview, (?), that spurned the thread about feminism, jm and ani? I'd really appreciate it. Thanks in advance, MG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:33:17 -0400 From: The Yarn Kollection Subject: Re: We don't need no stinking producer Hi All, Just a few comments that were inspired by these two post and many more. Warm and connective feelings are surely what I have been experiencing from TTT. Let me include enjoyable as well. Example: Last night I was driving home from my evening job. Exhausted but over joyed that I did not have to go to my night job. TTT is playing as I start my (night ride home). For once, being in no hurry, I'm just driving along and soaking in the music. Taking a glance around I suddenly notice that I've passed my turn off point on the turnpike. Not to worry I'll just take the next one up the road. TTT sucks me back in to it's magic and I'm once again just taxi-ing down the highway. Only to realize that again I've missed my intended exit. I LOL at and to myself. Many miles peeled away before I righted my direction But the ride was totally enjoyed with Joni and TTT in the drivers seat. So my hope is and I'm sure it is shared my all, that TTT is not Joni's exit cd to us all. I listen to music and artist that continue to touch and reach me. TTT is playing even now as I post this to the list. Enough said. Once again Thanks Joni. Mendi > Personally, I love TTT. Yes, the VG8 does sound similar from track to track, > but it's a warm, sort of ethereal tone that fits her lyrics well and gives an > overall soothing mood to the album. And if it took the VG8 to get our Ms. > Joan out on the road, I say more power to her and her ax. My dream will come > true when she appears in Chicago later this month. I can hardly wait. > > Peace, > Michael > > On Wed, 14 Oct 1998, Bounced Message wrote: > > > From: "Tyrer, Paul" > > Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:09:26 +0100 > >(snip) > > Does anyone else get the sense that JM > > is actually trying to bring her recording career to a close? (snip) > . Anyway, instead of someone else producing Joni (I > > think she produces herself immaculately), (snip) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:47:37 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: Video list (could be long, I'm not sure yet....) Holy tomato(e)! This video idea of mine is a surefire way to get neat e-mail to break up my work day! I want to remind y'all that this video is not yet in our database. We may end up not even carrying it. I'm waiting to hear back from some friends in purchasing to find out something definite. Also, I want to throw out that this is not a fundraising scheme or a grand plan to put Signe through correspondence school. It's just something that might be available to me and I'd like to pass it on if I could. The jmdl has provided me with some wonderful exchanges and some incredible relationships and it would be very gratifying for me to return something back. Without further mawkish doo-doo, here's the list of interested vid folks: kerri Happy the Craig Ashara Michael Y. Pearl Doug, (wolfbite) Brett William Burnworth, (fanfare for new member welcome!) deb thornton Jim L'Homamamamamamlammamadamamdoo Patrick Bob Ward Ryan Case Wally K, (xxxxx/oooooo) Steve Julty Kai Steve P. I'll post an update as facts become available. MG - almost up to her daily posting limit. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:46:55 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: TTT - -----Original Message----- From: Victor King To: joni@smoe.org Date: Friday, October 16, 1998 9:23 AM Subject: TTT >Also, the sound is hollow, without any of >the hard edges that help define the shape of the sound. The sound of >Joni's fingernails on an acoustic guitar when she scrapes the wood >incidentally as she plucks the strings gives the songs on TI and NRH an >extra dimension that is totally missing from TTT. That's funny, Vic, because I always HATED the hard sound of what you describe! It's akin to fingernails on the perverbial blackboard to me, and diminishes my enjoyment of acoustic music in so many recordings. And don't get me started on that screeching sound of the fingers sliding up the frets. Reminds me of the dentist's drill... Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:55:21 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: TTT (NJC and self-indulgent) I wrote: >"perverbial" and it is bugging me that this is not spelled right. Help me.... Marsha, can't find it in the fat Webster's ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:57:37 +0100 From: David Wright Subject: Re: (NJC) Matthew Shepard resolution now John T. Folden wrote: >In case no one has heard, the Westboro Babtist Church will >be picketing Mr. Shepard's funeral. [snip] The WBC was going to picket Oberlin this semester because our new athletic director is a gay man. Over the summer they faxed a letter about sending a mission team which would "educate and warn Oberlin to repent and flee from the wrath to come." I haven't heard if they actually came yet. ("I think it is most unfortunate. He is a very isolated and idiosyncratic individual," responded the ever-diplomatic and ardently alliterative College president, Nancy Dye.) and Michael Y. (happy birthday!!!) wrote: >> >> The House is currently debating a resolution condemning Matthew >> Shepard's murder. Would someone drop me a line privately and let me know the outcome of this? Thanks. - --David NP: PJ Harvey, the increasingly incredible _Is This Desire?_ ("It never leaves my mind/the last words she said/'If I don't find it this time/Then I'm better off dead'") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:10:51 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: more on Joni painting Yesterday I posted the name of the painting Joni imitates on the inside of Turbulent Indigo. The one of the woman in an orange gown, sleeping on a couch. Cindy was close, she thought the title was "Golden Autumn." It is actually titled "Flaming June" and is by Lord Frederick Leighton. See it here (cropped): http://www.geocities.com/~dianasav/Art/FlamingJune.jpg I agree with JamieJake all the more that this painting by Joni is inappropriate for the CD. It is more than fine for her to paint a copy of a painting, although it is usually art students who create copies of famous works to heighten their skills. But to copy it so blatantly, change the background, flop the image... and not give any credit to Leighton... not cool. I do wonder about it. I would love to hear her explanation. Sherrie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:18:01 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: the ani article Thanks to all of the list members that forwarded the ani article. What a great and terrific piece of writing! I'm sorry that I missed that thread! Now I'm really looking forward to this evening's show. MG ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:14:25 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Word of the Day (NJC) - -----Original Message----- From: Don Rowe To: docnurse@voy.net Date: Friday, October 16, 1998 12:11 PM Subject: Re: TTT (NJC and self-indulgent) >> >That would be "proverbial" "that has become an object of common reference, as in a proverb." (Webster's, # 3 definition) Thanks, Don. Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:15:15 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: VG-8--for tour or studio When I first heard about the VG8 (or whatever the hell that guitar is called) on this list, I thought it would be helpful in allowing Joni to tour--because of all the tuning issues. So, what I don't understand is--why is she using it in the studio? When she has the luxury and the time to tune the guitars--or to have a lot of guitars already tuned--why is she using the VG8? Is it for the sound? Howard M "Anytime you have the opportunity to accomplish something and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:11:22 EDT From: Drewdix@aol.com Subject: Re: TTT (NJC and self-indulgent) proverbial, rooted in "proverb" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:54:02 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: TTT (NJC and self-indulgent) Proverbial. Marsha wrote: > I wrote: > > >"perverbial" > > and it is bugging me that this is not spelled right. > Help me.... > > Marsha, can't find it in the fat Webster's - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:13:30 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: some video information This from my friend in purchasing: "....we will carry it IF there is an order placed for it. As far as the price, the $79.95 list that you're looking at is a rental price. It will be at the price for probably a few months until it goes to "sell through" which is when videos hit that familiar $14.95 - $9.99 price. I'll check on it and get back to you." The video business is new to me. CDs start out and stay at or close to their list price. (excepting sales and loss leaders and that "bargin bin" stuff). This pricing method is new to me. With any luck, it will be ordered and I'll buy up the entire stock! MG - nope - ain't interested in working yet. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:46:00 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: MSG Show - 1 Ticket Available Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:38:07 -0400 From: marias@eden.coat.com (Maria Symonds) From a dedicated lurker: For anyone interested in attending the MSG show - I have one ticket (wanted to buy three, had to buy four) available in section 4 on the floor at Madison Square Garden. I bought these through my local broker so the $$ is higher than the published prices. If you are interested please contact me privately. Thanks. Maria Best wishes to Wally ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:36:47 EDT From: Drewdix@aol.com Subject: Re: No Subject In a message dated 98-10-16 09:09:28 EDT, you write: << My apartment is a possibility as a gathering place. It is on 69th street, on the east side. Unfortunately, it is undergoing some renovation and is quite small (15 people comfortably is a stretch). I am not being elitist, but I think it would not be comfortable with a crowd of 35. So that is another issue. >> This is a very generous suggestion. But if space is a consideration, hey, there are a couple of wide-awake, not expensive, woody, clean, Irish bar-restaurants in the vicinity that have the room for 30-40 people piling in for an event, because they handle Knicks/Rangers/Concert crowds all the time. I'm suggesting an informal mingle at The Triple Crown, 7th Ave. bet. 28th + 29th Sts., as another option to meet each other, and chat and have a beer (or soda, coffee, whatever). It's just 2 blocks from MSG. - --Drew ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 98 13:56:55 EDT From: Kai Wong Subject: Gay/Clinton - NJC This is a small gesture but it means a lot. Let's hope Trent Lott or Newt Gingrich will send someone from the GOP as well. Kai Kai ____________________________________________________________________ More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:39:12 -0400 From: "John T. Folden" Subject: RE: the ani article > -----Original Message----- > From: Mary Grace Valentinsson > > Thanks to all of the list members that forwarded the ani article. What a > great and terrific piece of writing! I'm sorry that I missed that > thread! Now > I'm really looking forward to this evening's show. Could someone be so kind as to forward this article to me, too? Seems I missed it, as well. :-( Thanks, John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:46:46 -0400 From: "John T. Folden" Subject: RE: (NJC) Matthew Shepard resolution now Some good news: CASPER, Wyo. (AP) _ The Casper City Council banned protesters from today's funeral of a slain University of Wyoming student, hoping to prevent a spectacle at an event that an anti-gay church vowed to picket. During an emergency meeting late Thursday, the council voted unanimously to forbid protests before, during and immediately after the funeral ... rest of the story at Yahoo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:47:50 -0400 From: "John T. Folden" Subject: RE: the ani article Thanks to Mary and Kenny who have so quickly forwarded this article to me!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:54:00 +0000 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - October 17 1988: Joni performs at the San Remo Songfest in Italy. 1990: (from Wally's bio page): [Today,] the L.A. Theater Center began previews of a revue type show that featured 5 singers (3 women and 2 men) performing the songs of Joni Mitchell with a five piece band. The most well known of the singers was 2 time Tony winner Hinton Battle. Calling itself "The Joni Mitchell Project" the Jacques Brel style show was directed by David Schweizer and played for three months at L.A.T.C. Joni's then manager Barry Krost was a member of the Theater Center board of trustees. A few days after the official opening on November 1, Joni herself showed up for the show and was persuaded to sing a new song. Joni told Musician magazine about her visit to LATC: "I went to hear the Joni Mitchell Project, this revue that did some of my songs. They called me up and I did "Cherokee Louise" acapella, dancing to keep the groove. I'm coming up on the rape scene and I'm, like, highly mirthful. But it came off because people get feelings from it. Every time you sing it you don't relive it." For photos of the event: http://www.jonimitchell.com/JMProject90.html - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:57:25 -0400 From: "Dougher, Lillian W." Subject: RE: the ani article I would also love it if someone would PLEASE forward the article to me too...... I must of missed it too......:-( Thanx ***lily** - ---------- From: John T. Folden[SMTP:jtfolden@erinet.com] Sent: Friday, October 16, 1998 2:39 PM To: Mary Grace Valentinsson; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: the ani article > -----Original Message----- > From: Mary Grace Valentinsson > > Thanks to all of the list members that forwarded the ani article. What a > great and terrific piece of writing! I'm sorry that I missed that > thread! Now > I'm really looking forward to this evening's show. Could someone be so kind as to forward this article to me, too? Seems I missed it, as well. :-( Thanks, John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:04:27 EDT From: KCooper984@aol.com Subject: Re: some video information Hi Everybody! Does anyone know if you can tape the pay per view of Joni on Viewer's Choice? Or do they make it so it can't be taped? Just wondering! Happy Joni! Sue Cooper ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:48:51 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: TTT (NJC and self-indulgent) In a message dated 10/16/98 11:59:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, docnurse@voy.net writes: << perverbial" and it is bugging me that this is not spelled right. Help me.... Marsha, can't find it in the fat Webster's >> Marsha, Perverbial must be stories from long ago about obscene and demented people. Otherwise, you are looking for proverbial. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:58:12 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: VG-8--for tour or studio In a message dated 10/16/98 12:22:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, howard@mpimedia.com writes: << So, what I don't understand is--why is she using it in the studio? When she has the luxury and the time to tune the guitars--or to have a lot of guitars already tuned--why is she using the VG8? Is it for the sound? Howard M >> I'm sure there are others who could answer this better than I, but what the heck, that never stopped me before! ;>) First of all, as you probably know, the VG8 is NOT a guitar. It is akin to a graphic equalizer, in my view, in that it allows you to reshape the sounds coming out of another instrument. To answer your main question, I think she has to record using the same stuff she will perform with, otherwise she would not get the same sound in concert as on the CD or simply would not be able to perform certain songs. Isn't that a major reason why the Beatles stopped touring -- because they started doing things in the studio on Revolver and Sgt. Pepper that could not be reproduced on stage? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:32:04 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: TTT (NJC and self-indulgent) - -----Original Message----- From: IVPAUL42@aol.com To: docnurse@voy.net ; joni@smoe.org Date: Friday, October 16, 1998 3:24 PM Subject: Re: TTT (NJC and self-indulgent) > Perverbial must be stories from long ago about obscene and demented people. > >Otherwise, you are looking for proverbial. Or our other little predilection (sp too?) for "preverbial"---which involves talking in the womb.... ;-D See ya' in Hotlanta, Dutch! Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:29:40 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Finally got TTT in NZ! and Man From Mars poll.....which version is better? Hi Jos, you wrote: >Songs I like off TTT, are TTT and MFM. >I still like the MFM version from 'Grace of my Heart' soundtrack, it has >much more raw emotion to it. The TTT version to me is a little muted by >the synth nature of the backing track. >So a poll!! >Who prefers which version of Man from Mars??? From what I've seen here, everyone who has heard the earlier Grace of My Heart version, including myself, prefers it to the TTT synth version. However, someone speculated that maybe she changed it from the original piano sound to the VG-8 so that the overall album would sound consistent. That makes sense. >TTT booklet....Someone said on here they didn't have all the paintings >in their booklet? It was thought that the painting of Joni and Don, which was included in the Crazy Cries of Love promo, was missing from the TTT booklet. Wally informed us that the painting was included only on the CC promo single. >Man reading pic (Don?) (page9) >Mans profile against city pic(page14) Yes, both are definitely paintings of Donald. >Booklet tip......on the cd cover that the booklet fits into, break off >the 3 little guide tabs, leaving only the tops ones....they are quite >easy to break off, and you can get the booklet in and out real easy by >sliding it just into the top ones..... This is a great tip - it's been driving me nuts trying to get the booklet back into the case! Kakki NP: Painted from Memory - Costello and Bacharach ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 12:41:59 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: TTT (NJC and self-indulgent) Proverbial? - -jan (a provert) >I wrote: > >>"perverbial" > >and it is bugging me that this is not spelled right. >Help me.... > >Marsha, can't find it in the fat Webster's > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:50:49 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: JONI SPECIAL - NOV 8th.(CANADA) From: PATRICIA HILLIS Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:39:31 -0400 In response to an inquiry I sent to the Canadian Broadcasting Corp, I received the following info: Pat: THE JONI MITCHELL SPECIAL will air across the country on Sunday, November 8, 1998 at 9:00-l0:00 pm. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:22:23 +0100 From: Rob Jordan Subject: Re: Have We Come Too Close? At 06:54 16/10/98 PDT, Don Rowe wrote: >Have we come too close? Are we no longer capable of listening in >wonder? Are we doomed to try and prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that >TTT is not *as good as* 'Hejira' of 'HOSL'? The recent contrast between >some of the more exuberant reviews (Billboard's comes to mind)juxtaposed >with the detailed comparison analysis of the list makes me think, >wistfully, that perhaps we have. Don, You've put your finger on something which has been troubling me too. I came to this list as a passionate but under-informed Joni fan. For the first year it was a wholly positive experience: I came to appreciate albums I had overlooked, I learned details of Joni's life which added colour to the songs, and most of all I found a community I really felt at home with. Another year on, I still want to be part of the community, but I'm sated with Joni-stuff. And even though I really love some of the songs on TTT, overall I've found it a rather flat experience. Perhaps it's because the songs dribbled out bit by bit: first on the video tree, then KCRW, and then ever-so-long afterwards, the CD. I don't wish to appear ungrateful; I really appreciate the efforts that went into the video and tape trees, and I lapped them up, but an album's not going to have a really big impact after that slow build-up. I hear you all saying "who does this berk think he is, that he tells us all his troubles?" and you're right, it seems self-centred. I'm just musing on another aspect of the Internet community thingy that we're all part of. Rob np: still Lauryn ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #421 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?