From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #417 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, October 15 1998 Volume 03 : Number 417 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Nashville@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com Orlando@jmdl.com -Tampa@jmdl.com Sunrise@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: do i tell her? totally njc [Mark Domyancich ] Re: do i tell her? totally njc [LRFye@aol.com] Bumper Stickers [Steve Mixon ] Re: do i tell her? totally njc ["Marsha" ] Re: do i tell her? totally njc [Julie Blau ] Re: do i tell her? totally njc [LRFye@aol.com] Re: do i tell her? totally njc ["Julie Z. Webb" ] NJC--Micheal's gift from julie ["amy" ] Joni as Producer [Scott Price ] Re: do i tell her? totally njc [catman ] Joni's tour dates [Wally Breese ] We don't need no stinking producer [Michael Delury ] Michael et al ["wallykai" ] RE: Joni's Paintings ["wallykai" ] Re: do i tell her? totally njc [Sue ] Tour [Wally Breese ] Re: Joni's Paintings [Phyliss Ward ] music on tv/joni in musician mag [BarBearUh ] Re: do i tell her? totally njc [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joni's tour dates [IVPAUL42@aol.com] neglect [SDWS10@aol.com] Yippies Unite! JMDLers and DomeHomers Unite! (Very Long) ["Alan Larson" ] Happy Birthday Maggie and Michael!!! [Ashara@aol.com] What a Day in the (Joni) Life! [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Joni's tour dates [Wally Breese ] New Orleans (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: Larry As Joni's Producer ["Kakki" ] Doing my bit to peddle Joni [Gerald Hillman ] Auntie! (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Scary! (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: do i tell her? totally njc [TerryM2442@aol.com] SOOOO Brilliant (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: do i tell her? totally njc [Helen Gill ] Another Joni Experience [Phyliss Ward ] P's and Q's (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Tit for Tat (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Shopping at Borders (SJC) ["Kakki" ] I can't believe this! [Michael Paz ] Everyone's a Critic ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: Joni as producer [pswmusic@interport.net (Esquizito)] Re: Joni as producer ["Kakki" ] Calling all Birthday wishers [Michael Paz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:04:21 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: do i tell her? totally njc I think, IMHO, that having such stupid rules like "Talking without permission" applied to six year olds is rediculous! I break that rule all the time but I never get busted for it. I wouldn't tell your wife about it just yet. Mark At 5:52 PM -0400 10/14/98, PMcfad@aol.com wrote: >one of my six year old daughters came home today with a green apple that had a >note written on it saying "talking without permission". ... >question: should i tell her about the apple and risk the consequences for the >daughter et all, since if she does not go, no one goes. or, do i burry the >apple till we get back next week? ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:09:53 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: do i tell her? totally njc pj wrote: > to enrich the story, we are going to disney tomorrow with all three of our > children. as well, the child in question brought home a yellow apple > yesterday and was told if she brings home another yellow apple today, she > will not be allowed to go to disney, since she has been in a 'yellow' glut. pj, your daughter was told she could not go to disney if she brought home a yellow apple, correct? She brought home a GREEN apple today, not a yellow apple. As long as nothing was mentioned about her bringing home something "worse" than a yellow apple, I would say she (and the other two kids) get to go to disney ... what an opportunity to give a lesson on the loopholes of a technicality! Hoping all of you have fun at disney, Lori (even more amused) San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:31:57 -0700 From: Steve Mixon Subject: Bumper Stickers I love Jen's bumper sticker suggestion - "Urge For Going." Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:37:13 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: do i tell her? totally njc - -----Original Message----- From: PMcfad@aol.com To: joni@smoe.org Date: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 5:57 PM Subject: do i tell her? totally njc >one of my six year old daughters came home today with a green apple that had a >note written on it saying "talking without permission". >pj who is tired of the fights and reviews and >the politics and the preaching and the long multiple swan songs with encore's >and second encores. Well, pj, buddy... maybe some of us get tired of "let me tell you 'bout my kids" vignettes... :-) (just kidding you...I like kid threads, and cat and dog threads, and doll threads and hairstyle and fingernail polish threads)... but I wonder how some folks think the threads they start, along with complaints of list content, are more valid and enjoyable to us? Marsha, thinks there's room for just about anything, especially with our numbers growing every day at the jmdl p.s. you asked for opinions for your plight: if you enter a conspiracy with your kids to usurp your wife, then you will have hell to pay on many fronts for a long time. Think about the message you would be sending to your partner and your charges. Sounds like you identify with your children more than your late-for-home mate in life... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:37:31 -0700 From: Julie Blau Subject: Re: do i tell her? totally njc PMcfad@aol.com wrote: > one of my six year old daughters came home today with a green apple > that had a > note written on it saying "talking without permission". > > the story of the apples is that in this first grade class, each day, > each > student brings home one of three colored cut out apples. red is for > good > behavior, yellow is for marginal behavior, and green is for bad kids. Wow. I have a first grader also, and this seems rather severe. At my daughter's school they have something called the "Golden Hawk"; if you are caught doing something nice, especially something you weren't asked to do (picking up trash, helping another student, etc.), a teacher fills out one of these and puts it in a jar; eventually when the jar fills up they pick a name and that person gets a prize. This seems okay to me, since it encourages the kids to do something good without being asked. They also of course have some other colored slips that go home if you do something that your parents need to know about; I think the green slip is the one to avoid. But these are for major problems, things for which you get sent to the principal. Maybe I misunderstood your original post; can you get more than one "apple" per day? This idea about every day grading a child as "good, marginal, or bad" sounds pretty extreme. If your daughters are anything like my children, then every day they do wonderful fabulous things and most days they also do something marginal or bad (okay, every day). And just as the bad behavior needs to be punished, or at least examined, the good behavior must also be rewarded and reinforced. Also, I don't think that the schools need to tell us every trangression that our child makes; I want to know if she is hurting or disrespecting someone, but I don't want her to think that her more minor mistakes will be reported to me at the end of the day. I certainly don't need to know that she was talking without permission, unless of course she exhibits this behavior as a pattern and we need to work with her on it. I also think there's a danger here of kids being labeled as good, bad, or marginal. Which I think is totally wrong. As I said before, my kids' behavior is all of the above, all day, every day. Julie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:14:52 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: do i tell her? totally njc pj also wrote, about the apples his 6-year-old brings home from school each day: > red is for good behavior, yellow is for marginal behavior, and green is for bad kids. This is totally irrelevant, but the color assignment seems kind of backwards to me, since green is traditionally the color of healing. Or ... thinking about traffic lights, red means "stop" and green means "go." I wonder how the teacher decided which color should be for which behavior? Lori in San Antonio, going home from a full day of keeping books and making maps for her boss' apple and pear orchards in faraway Washington ... and wondering if Red Delicious apples are "better" than Granny Smith ... and being glad she doesn't have kids! NP: Alanis Morrisette, "You Oughta Know," on the radio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:45:02 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Re: do i tell her? totally njc At 05:52 PM 10/14/98 EDT, you wrote: >question: should i tell her about the apple and risk the consequences for the >daughter et all, since if she does not go, no one goes. or, do i burry the >apple till we get back next week? Ok, since you asked, here's an un-PC answer from Don Juan's Fertile Daughter- Short term answer: Adam, you eat that goddamn apple right now and go to Disney. Long term answer: Transfer your SIX YEAR OLD out of that oppressive school, and enroll yourselves in a child development workshop which focuses on more appropriate ways of getting children to behave--especially techniques that you two can agree on. -JulieZW ---when push comes to shove--- believes in bribing her children, so what do I know?!?!? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:44:24 -0400 From: "amy" Subject: NJC--Micheal's gift from julie Hello all...a quick note from a dedicated lurker...julie, my thanks to you for the gift you gave us all, in those lyrics you sent to Micheal. I really needed to hear something that made my soul lighter today, and without knowing it, you gave a gift to me as well. So here's to you....may your skies be blue. feeling lighter... amy np...van morrison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:03:49 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Joni as Producer >>Esquizito wrote: >>I think Jaco and Larry Carlton had alot to do >>with the sound of those mid/late-70's Joni recordings. >Kakki wrote: >They had a whole lot to do with her >sound then. But again, she was still the one who picked them >and related to them the essence of the sound that she wanted. She has said that she liked to sing or hum the lines she wanted them to play. I'm sure there's some artistic interpretation at work but the basic riffs were often dictated by Joni. However, Jaco had a sound and style all his own and it definitely comes through on her albums as Jaco Pastorius, as opposed to "some guy" playing bass notes that have been charted out for him by Joni Mitchell. She also likes to describe colors or settings and then have the musicians improvise to fill in the blanks, as it were. I think this is why she has collaborated with such luminaries as Jaco, Metheney, Blade, Shorter, et. al. Not because they're "jazz" musicians per se, but because they are creative enough to fill in the music that *she* envisions. She can tell Wayne that she's trying to capture a particular mood or feeling and he not only understands but is able to carry it off, musically. Joni also said that Klein taught her to listen for many sounds that she was not aware of before and his influence on some of her albums is unmistakable. Is it a coincidence that these are possibly her least-well-received projects? She does incorporate lots of styles; that's what makes her uniquely Joni. She listens to others, especially her "musical partners" as she's taken to calling them. I think she has been able to expand her musical horizons much farther than most any other "pop" artist and she's done it largely on her own, with a little help from her friends. I say let her continue the journey, without undue outside production values, and see where it takes her. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:04:11 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: do i tell her? totally njc PMcfad@aol.com wrote: > one of my six year old daughters came home today with a green apple that had a > note written on it saying "talking without permission". > > the story of the apples is that in this first grade class, each day, each > student brings home one of three colored cut out apples. red is for good > behavior, yellow is for marginal behavior, and green is for bad kids. i hope that last was a mistake-the green apple is for bad behaviour(not kids) yes?I would keep my mouth shut about it and go to disney. Either way, there is going to be upset so you might as well enjoy Disney! bw colin > > > to enrich the story, we are going to disney tomorrow with all three of our > children. as well, the child in question brought home a yellow apple > yesterday and was told if she brings home another yellow apple today, she > will not be allowed to go to disney, since she has been in a 'yellow' glut. > > now, my wife, who can be a stern woman, and means what she says, is teaching > late tonight and will not be home till 11:00. > > question: should i tell her about the apple and risk the consequences for the > daughter et all, since if she does not go, no one goes. or, do i burry the > apple till we get back next week? > > by the way, in the car i asked my daughter what happened in school that led to > her getting the green apple and my son interrupted her and said, 'why don't > you read the apple dad, it speaks for itself.' to which i thought, he'd make > a fine jmdler when he is of age. pj who is tired of the fights and reviews and > the politics and the preaching and the long multiple swan songs with encore's > and second encores. - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 98 17:21:07 -0700 From: Wally Breese Subject: Joni's tour dates Hi everyone, I've just received confirmation of Joni's upcoming shows with Bob Dylan, and I've updated the list on the upcoming concerts page on Joni's Website. See the list here: (http://www.JoniMitchell.com/UpcomingConcerts98.html). I regret to inform you folks that Joni is NOT joining Bob for his shows in Florida. I know this will disappoint many of you, and I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Later, Wally Breese The Joni Mitchell Homepage http://www.JoniMitchell.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:46:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Michael Delury Subject: We don't need no stinking producer Just to add my 2cents on this thread, Joni seems excited about doing at least one more album - jazz standards no less. That would be sublime. One wonders if she would hire a producer to get that "big band" sound. Personally, I love TTT. Yes, the VG8 does sound similar from track to track, but it's a warm, sort of ethereal tone that fits her lyrics well and gives an overall soothing mood to the album. And if it took the VG8 to get our Ms. Joan out on the road, I say more power to her and her ax. My dream will come true when she appears in Chicago later this month. I can hardly wait. Peace, Michael On Wed, 14 Oct 1998, Bounced Message wrote: > From: "Tyrer, Paul" > Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:09:26 +0100 > > Hmm, all this talk about Joni getting a producer suggests that she is > definitely going to *do* a new album! Does anyone else get the sense that JM > is actually trying to bring her recording career to a close? I thought that > the end-tracks of both Turbulent Indigo and TTT were potential 'this song is to > close my career' songs. Thankfully, we got the hopeful one in 'Here's to You' > not the tragedy of Job. Anyway, instead of someone else producing Joni (I > think she produces herself immaculately), she should produce someone else. > She'd definitely improve the sound of Kiss, for example. Kiss? My ass! > > Paul X > > Paul Tyrer > Research Associate > ESRC Violence, Sexuality and Space Project > Institute for Women's Studies, Lancaster University. > Tel 01524 594740 > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:37:26 -0300 From: "wallykai" Subject: Michael et al To Michael and all Librans [ wise judges and snake charmers as a rule!] on the list: Happy birthday! WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:37:31 -0300 From: "wallykai" Subject: RE: Joni's Paintings I have always thought that the painting inside the For the Roses cover [Joni smelling the roses] is a masterwork. The angle is so extreme it took me a few minutes to realize it wasn't an abstract painting but actually a recognizable portrait. Sometimes I like paintings that look abstract only until you've observed them long enough. WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:42:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Subject: Re: do i tell her? totally njc Well, you are going to get my answer from both perspectives: an educator's and a parent's. You must not undermine your wife when it comes to discipline. If you need to discuss the issue, then do so, out in the open, before the trip. Let there be a consequence while you are at Disney if you can work things out and still go. There is no reason to punish the entire family and not attend, yet you must have some type of consequence so your daughter knows that when mommy says something is going to happen, it does. As far as the system your daughter's teacher uses, let me give you a bit of an analogy. Suppose you decided to invite 30 of your daughter's friends over. Now, they are going to be over for seven hours, and in that time you have to make sure that they are playing well together, getting fed, acting appropriately, etc. Sounds like hell, doesn't it? Well, a teacher's job is all that, plus, by God, you will teach them how to read! First grade is when the hammer goes down in most schools. No more kindergarten playing, it is time to get down to learning and to do this properly one has to have control of the classroom. You may wish to call your daughter's teacher to find out exactly what she is doing to earn these yellow and green apples and see if you can do some behavior modification at home. Lastly, what ever you decide, be honest with yourself and your family. Come right out and say that you don't want to miss the trip. Have your wife think of another consequence that you can all live with. Always remember that it is our job as parents to teach our children to be responsible for their actions. If we ignore bad behavior, or even reward it, there could be hell to pay down the road. That's all from this corner of the soapbox. Next... Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 98 17:56:22 -0700 From: Wally Breese Subject: Tour Hi everyone, I'm looking for a reporter and photographer (same person, please) to cover Joni's shows for her Website. Toronto, NYC, Syracuse and Rochester N.Y. are already covered, but I need someone for the other seven shows. If you're going to one of the other concerts and have a good camera with a great lens, please contact me ASAP. Thanks! Later, Wally Breese The Joni Mitchell Homepage http://www.JoniMitchell.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:47:41 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Joni's Paintings wallykai wrote: > I have always thought that the painting inside the For the Roses cover [Joni > smelling the roses] is a masterwork. I love it too! And I used to think it was of James Taylor, who I assume the song For The Roses is about. But alas, we are both wrong! According to Joni, in the Starart book, the portrait is of Judy Collins! -- Phyliss, who hates to burst your bubble pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:22:51 +0000 From: BarBearUh Subject: music on tv/joni in musician mag tonight: lauryn hill special on mtv at 10. pj harvey on leno. chaka khan on politically incorrect. new joni interview - the classic musician mag kind, with questions and answers. on the front cover it says 'joni mitchell on what's wrong with pop music'. article is called 'embrace the tiger, lessons in surviving pop culture conformity from joni mitchell'. includes 2 full page color pictures, one is the same shot from the 'out of the quicksand' article, but full head-to-toe. front cover feature is "road stress", december issue #241. more later, on this and other things. happy birthday michael! bb np: emmylou, spyboy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:14:40 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: do i tell her? totally njc In a message dated 10/14/98 7:17:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LRFye@aol.com writes: << This is totally irrelevant, but the color assignment seems kind of backwards to me, since green is traditionally the color of healing. Or ... thinking about traffic lights, red means "stop" and green means "go." I wonder how the teacher decided which color should be for which behavior? >> I agree it seems backwards, but in the apple world, reds are ripe and delicious and greens are bitter and yucky. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:14:41 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's tour dates In a message dated 10/14/98 8:22:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wallyb@well.com writes: << (http://www.JoniMitchell.com/UpcomingConcerts98.html). I regret to inform you folks that Joni is NOT joining Bob for his shows in Florida. I know this will disappoint many of you, and I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news. >> Damn. I'd pulled back from considering plans to go to Indianapolis or New York because of the Florida concerts. Now what do I do? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:27:41 EDT From: SDWS10@aol.com Subject: neglect i would really like to know why none of my msgs get posted....it seems we have a arrogont and cooky provider ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:56:04 -0700 From: "Alan Larson" Subject: Yippies Unite! JMDLers and DomeHomers Unite! (Very Long) Hi Ingrid and JMR and JMDLers and Cat and Ron and Jules and anyone else who is reading this because they don't have anything better to do! Also to my special friend Gwendavere from Canada, who actually believes in the idea of loving me! Very noteworthy young lass, but not a Joniphile. I really like the DomeHome list. But activity always ebbs and flows, like the tide. I think fall is a busy time for everyone, and many have subverted to the lurking mode, at least I have. School is going well, but I continue to struggle with money and whether or not I'll ever be able to afford to build my own dome. To answer Ingrid's question, "What do you call a subdivision of domes? I call it a dome colony. My far-off dream of a zen-like community of modern day hippies combining resources and talents, fun sporting games, complementary energies, child raising efforts, and last, but not least, musical synergy. And a paradigm for the democratic process. Not yuppies, not hippies, maybe yippies. The problem I see lies in combining different people not all of the same family, when everyone tends toward paranoia about what kind of drugs the rest of the colony is doing. I may as well come out now and say simply that I support NORML but really know nothing about what they are doing or have accomplished. This country makes it hard to organize any effort against the STATUS QUO. And that is a major stumbling block for people coming together on a community type project. The other thing might be our custom of maximum privacy, and the feeling that some people are not contributing what they should. What are some other impediments to building a community of domes do you foresee? My favorite picture of Joni is from one of her early anthology songbooks where she is dressed in a very counter culture outfit, mocassins I think, and the man is sitting cross legged playing the bongos, and a look of contentment is evident in their faces. To me that picture personified the laid back hippie woman that I idealized, which ties into descriptions of her early concerts, like at Tanglewood with an audience mesmerized by Michael From Mountains and Morning Morgantown. So what can I say to tie it together... quote Rodney King? "Why can't we all just get along?" That Joni that I knew from her music and my view of that picture, would have hated the kind of back stabbing and petty bickering and isolated meanness displayed on the JMDL List lately. That is probably the reason she stays away. I do not know you Mr. and Mrs. Chili, but I liked what you wrote, and I sincerely hope that if you read this you will know that I am thinking of the injustice that you felt. And PLEASE come back to the list! Communication is a dual edged sword, just like love is. Come back to the list and join us in harmony, in our "best out -of-tune voices" to Circle Game, metaphorically at least. Computers are getting better all the time. (smile) How long until video ICQ discussion lists? But, to the point, my idea for writing this came from this thought in response to Ingrid's post asking Where is Everybody? I took it symbolically of course. Which then lead me to think the following: If you have a need, put it out there. Let the list know what it is you need. JMR has spoken of coordinating some salvage efforts, and I want to find others into subdividing property (but most likely in Iowa, ugh! who would want to live here? why not a beach? the dome can stand the storms.LOL But "home is where when you have to go there, they have to take you in." Even if I yearn for a more artistic, counterculture type of environment, this is still HOME.). And many people, from what I've gathered, seem willing and most possibly able to contribute to the book/web site about building domes, but the ship seems to be rudderless. No one's fault, but deep inside I can feel the engine starting to rumble. It will happen.. I am also looking to find the right audio and video plugins to start developing multimedia dome presentations, (the best ones aren't cheap, that's for sure) and definitely work some Joni Mitchell music into it. And David Wilcox and Bruce Cockburn and James Taylor. Definitely Joni. And Michael Johnson. Can't forget Phil Ochs and Jim Croce either. Those are just my favorites. I would love it if anybody who would like to get on ICQ and just chat up some ideas would email me privately. And I will post the time in a subsequent email. I have been so out of it, that I don't even know what's going on with the DIY Manual or Website. Maybe someone can fill me in. There is a dome home here outside of Ames with a unique use of a second floor balcony and a square garage extension from the main body of the dome. Ignoring you dome purists for a minute, can anyone tell me what camera shots would be best if the owners are willing to let me take pictures to post to the list? Would anyone be interested in seeing them? It's on a beautiful wooded culdesac lot. One maxim I learned in Business class is that the easiest businesses to start and keep going are the first ones to fail. The harder it is to get the money and the planning done, the more likely the company is to succeed. And, with this many minds involved on this list, I'm sure we could do a helluva lot of planning. JMR's Dome Salvage and Repair. What do you think, J? JMDL'ers? Business ideas anyone? Has anyone written a business proposal? Another dream of mine from long ago, ("though his dreams have lost a little grandeur on the way"), was to build a dome that was a showcase for all the new technology and use of new types of recycled materials that everyone would want to see. Anybody care to speculate on getting someone to act as the Official Fund Raiser for a project like that? Venture capitalists for 200, Alex, please. LOL. There must be ways to get government grants or the like for a project like that! And please, someone congratulate me on getting a new job starting today! Maintenance at a motel. Maybe we could start a Domotel. I like the name anyway. Thanks for listening! I mean that! People on both of these lists have made a profound impact on my life, some negative, but overwhelmingly positive. For you Domers, (I might be called Homer Domer, I like the name, as I have a dog named Homer), the other list is the Joni Mitchell Discussion List which can be accessed through www.JoniMitchell.com Check out her new cd Taming the Tiger, which, of all her jazz efforts, seems to be the most highly touted. Still haven't bought it, shame on me! The Bard (Brad), and I are planning to meet before Joni's concert with Dylan in 11 days. Can't wait! I have never seen either one of them. However, I'm not going with a great deal of hope that I'll really enjoy their respective new styles. I'm not that into jazz or electric. I just hope for the semblance of the kind of party Jules and Ashara threw, with a lot of singalongs. Anyone else planning to see her in Mpls at the Target Center and would like to join Brad and myself , please do. Let me know... For better or worse, ,just as Dylan went electric, Joni has abandoned her folk roots. She has grown as a musician, yes, but does she really have to neglect her folk period, her folk fans? I thought of her when Kevin Nealon was taking requests for a James Taylor TV concert when he asked James "Will you play it?" and JT shrugs, lifts a rye smile, kind of does an aw shucks with his hands in his pockets look, and says "I'll DO it." Or maybe it was a sad resigned I'll do it, there is no way to know except to ask him. Still, I had nothing but the greatest admiration for him when he did play that song for the tenthousandth time. Whereas I know that there is no comparing the two artists, I love to hear JT play old classics like Up on the Roof and Fire and Rain. He says some songs should "sit on the shelf a while... to ripen and age." I wish I were going to hear RIVER or Real Good for Free in eleven days. And Don't Think Twice or Times They are a Changin' by Uncle Bob. What are the chances he'll sing Blowin In the Wind? a song which is arguably every bit as much a national anthem for our country in the 60's as Woodstock. Boy, if I were Joni's producer and she actually listened to her producer, I'd have her embracing the women's movement! She would be the Grande Dame of Lillith Fair. She and Gloria Steinham could put on huge benefits. Gay rights groups, dome home yippies for a cleaner environment, homeless coalitions, NORML, even No Handguns groups -- all would be clamoring for her attention. But, still, I respect her right not to embrace these myriad elements into her life, just as I thought it silly, yet beautiful, to want to buy Joni a computer for her birthday. Sorry, Marian. It's her choice, and it's already made. Let's just rejoice that she is finally getting her due. And as for you JMDLer's, please feel free to check out www.seagull.net/rowley/domehome/ to check out dome theory and pictures, or even to join. "Just imagine three people walkin in and hummin a bar of Alice's Restaurant. Why, they'd think it was a movement!" And that's why I wrote this to both lists! To get the movement going. Just humming a bit. Softly, so as not to tread on any toes. That signifies a kind of mellowing with age that leads me to believe that yippies in their 40's could build a dome colony of zen like proportions and then live together in harmony. Intended solely as humor, yet with a grain of truth in it,I could say that that's because no one is doing as many drugs as they used to. Personally I feel that if any drugs should be condemned, the list should include body drugs like crack and meth and also alcohol. So again, begging your indulgence, thanks for listening...and especially to those of you who have cared enough to write me feedback for what I have written, especially you Gwedavere, also to Jules and Ron and JMR and Cat. You are all the greatest. Greater than the sum of your parts. zingistically permaculturally yours alan@ames.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:01:59 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Happy Birthday Maggie and Michael!!! Happy Birthday to Maggie and Michael Y. this day!! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:05:56 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: What a Day in the (Joni) Life! Man O Man! First, I get my Tape Tree #7 in the mail yesterday and have enjoyed listening to the West Coast Concerts, the '74 show, and the other tidbits as well. Thanks Brian! Send me the details for #6 when you get a chance...I'll continue to make it worth your while! Then, I'm in my car and decide on a whim to switch over to NPR instead of listening to CD's since it's "World Cafe" time - and they have the entire 2-hour show dedicated to Joni! I heard lots of stuff I hadn't heard before, loved the Indigo Girls' 'River' cover, and "The Man I Love" from the Herbie Hancock CD, the only thing I really didn't like was Roger McGuinn's 'Dreamland'. Not a very good mix of song and voice, IMO. Got the new Vanity Fair with Jonimention today. Got a message from the Atlanta list about tickets going on sale this Saturday. The show is Nov. 7, a Saturday night! Could spell trouble! ;-D So it has been a great Joni day! Changing gears, regarding the lyrics to "No Apologies", I've been thinking about the "Lawyers & loan sharks" stuff, and it seems to me that lawyers as well as loan sharks would have little or no influence in the world without CLIENTS. That is, people who use/demand their services. They (lawyers & loan sharks) seem to be an easy target when the real problem is more likely the greed and self-serving interests of the ones who procure the services. Bob M. in SC, noting that things have slowed down a bit on the list since a week ago - only 1 digest in the past 24 hours... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 98 19:24:22 -0700 From: Wally Breese Subject: Re: Joni's tour dates >Damn. I'd pulled back from considering plans to go to Indianapolis or New >York >because of the Florida concerts. Now what do I do? > >Paul I Paul, I felt so rotten having to announce that Joni isn't doing any shows in Florida. Partly because I know that a lot of listers live in that state. So sorry! Later, Wally Breese The Joni Mitchell Homepage http://www.JoniMitchell.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:33:07 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: New Orleans (NJC) Hi John- IS IT ME?? I live in New Orleans and tonight before I dived into catching up on the digests, I played host to the lovely John and Allison Lind of Georgia. I took them down to the quarter (of course, but definitly on the outskirts of) to one of my alternate offices, Ryan's Irish Pub. We had a couple cocktails and got to know each other a bit and make some plans, and then I dropped them off at their hotel to get ready for the dinner reservations I made for them at my fave restaurant here in N.O (Brigsten's). They should be sitting down to dinner right now. Let me know if I can help you out John. Best Michael NP-Harlem In Havana-Step Right Up ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:46:16 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Larry As Joni's Producer Don wrote: >I'm starting to pick up a lot of negative energy focused on Larry >Klein's production of Joni. Geesch Don, just me and Esquizito mentioned (mildly, I thought) that we had a bit of a hard time appreciating what Larry brought to Joni's music. Sorry if that seemed liked a lot of negative energy. I don't know what E was specifically referring to, but I was thinking more of the 80's productions and dense Dolby overlay. By the 90s (NRH and TI), I felt Joni had taken back some control from Larry and was making the sound more her own again. The way I hear it, I don't consider NRH and TI to have much influence from Larry's end. > Since I wasn't around the list when TI was >new -- was there some hand-wringing about the production at the time? >If so, what didn't people like? The list was not around when TI was new (TI was circa 1994 and the list was circa August 1996). Don't believe I've ever heard much, if any, negative criticism of TI on the list. And I've always stated that I think Larry is a brilliant producer. His production of Stormy Weather last April knocked me out, it was so great. He is also an incredibly accomplished musician with a stellar reputation going back over 20 years. I just don't think his 80s production values fit Joni's music and I've always sensed an incompatibility. Just my subjective opinion. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:02:43 -0500 From: Gerald Hillman Subject: Doing my bit to peddle Joni A university radio station started broadcasting last month, here in Wpg. Yesterday, I sent them an email expressing my appreciation for an FM station I can listen to, explaining that commercial radio is the reason I have a tape deck in my car. I'd heard them play Big Yellow Taxi (the original, not a remix) a couple days prior, so I encouraged them to introduce their audience to Joni's more eclectic songs, or "Misses". I gave them a couple suggested requests, including 2 from TTT. I can't listen to commercial radio for long before it drives me nuts, so I don't really know if any of the stations here in Wpg are playing anything from TTT. I guess I'll just phone and place a request anyway. JMDL/JMHP fundraiser idea?: (probably been voiced before, but) a "Today In Joni History" calendar. Hold a contest for the 12 best original Joni renderings. I'd buy a calendar, but I wouldn't enter the contest as I have zero visual talent. Last note goes to Robert Holliston of Viveza fame: I agree with Marsha. Viveza's newly released "Tango Tango" is great listening. Really!!! When I first listened to their previous release, "Five O'Clock Foxtrot" I wasn't sure I'd like "Salon Music" (Is that something you listen to when you get your hair done?). As it turns out; I do like. Thanks for broadening my horizon, Roberto. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:41:43 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Auntie! (NJC) Auntie 'M' ark roasted: "Now you listen to me, Elvira Gulch! Just because you own half the internet doesn't mean you own us! For 2 years I've been dying to tell you what I think of you! And now...well...being a Joni cultist I can't say it! Auntie 'M'(ark in Seattle)" Auntie- I screamed with laughter when I read this and my god after today I needed that. You and Auntie Ruthie mean so much. Still screaming, Michael NP-Man From Mars- This time you went to far. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:35:23 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Scary! (NJC) Julie wrote: " Really Michael, you don't strike me as the type of guy who is easily scared?!?!? Pull yourself together, man! I guess, Im missing something here. Ahhhh, Michael Paz, I don't care what you say, I will never forget how much fun you were at Ashara's playing the lead in "La Bamba." It was a wonderful moment for **me,** " Julie-That's REALLY scary! The La Bamba part I mean. Thanks for the great thoughts, I so enjoyed the party and loved every moment of it (even La Bamba). I have been watching the video in little bits and pieces and it is so much fun. I am getting painfully close to the end and I am now thinking of starting over without finishing (coming is not always necessary lol) just so later on down the road I can gave a piece to go back and watch that I haven't seen. Know what I mean? I was talking to Ashara today and told her that I feel that way about alot of books and some movies, where I just don't want it to end. Hoping to see you again soon. Michael NP-Tiger Bones ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:35:55 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: do i tell her? totally njc In a message dated 10/14/98 5:58:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PMcfad@aol.com writes: << and green is for bad kids. >> I suggest you send a green apple to the teacher. I'd be outraged if my kid's teacher did that! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:43:30 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: SOOOO Brilliant (NJC) Leslie Mixon wrote: "Where Did Our Love Go?" Leslie- Positively brilliant! (underlined a million times) This parody debuted at number one for me and I think it will ride the charts for awhile. Love and Peace Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:43:55 +1000 (EST) From: Helen Gill Subject: Re: do i tell her? totally njc firstly I think, before you go to Disney-thingy (;-) you should give you child a real apple, a GREEN one and tell her to give it to her teacher...(an apple for the teacher..a ha!) and be sure to attach a small note to this apple which reads as follows: You are horrible. Just my suggestion. A wormy apple would be even better. Helen. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:56:54 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Another Joni Experience This 43 year old was walking into her ceramics class today through groups of much younger Junior College students. And what does she hear? Someone calling out her name, Phyliss Ward. Looking around she sees a young man walking towards her with his hand out for a hand shake. It seems this fellow, Sam, is a nephew of a business friend of mine and had met me once before, which I vaguely remember. Anyway, I had faxed that friend an invite to the Joni PPVfest at my home on November 6th. Apparently Sam intercepted it and wanted to know if he could come too! He LOVES Joni Mitchell! Of course I said the more the merrier. He says his favorite album is Blue and he hasn't heard the new one. Do you think he'll be shocked by the 90's Joni if all he knows is Blue? Time will tell.... - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:01:21 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: P's and Q's (NJC) Esquisito wrote: " If you have graphic EQ on your system, experiment with cutting a little bit of 90-100 Hz for the "P's" and 6.5-8 kHz for "T's and S's." Yo Paz, whad'ya say about this?" Hey Esquisito- Glad you made it home all right. As far as the P's and Q's, I NEVER watch mine. I like it just they way it sounds. A graphic can work, but I think it effects the overall sound too much. If you cut certain frequencies it is going to "effect" other frequencies as well. The way I figure it, the woman has been making records for so long now, she should have a pretty good idea of what she wants it to sound like for a reason. I agree that the tracking engineer should have caught this (if it was not intended for whatever reason), and the best way is a filter in front of the mic. Don't know if the news got up to you in NYC, but Raymond Miles was murdered sunday night here in the city. It was a senseless and brutal act carried out by persons yet unknown. Although I did not get along with him professionally or personally, I respected his artistry to the max. If there was anyone ever on earth that could raise the spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ (if you were in church or in a bar or in some parking lot), it was Raymond Miles. We will be having a memorial hosted by Allen Toussaint tomorrow night at Tipitina's French Quarter. Nikki and I are going to go after JukeBox along with John and Allison Lind. Unfortunately this week, we also lost the legendary Charlie Bering, the owner of Lu and Charlie's, the first avant garde jazz club in New Orleans, opened in the seventies. Charlie also worked with the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival for many years. He was a true gent and a great friend to us all here in the New Orleans music biz. I will miss him so much. Sorry for the bad news, but I thought you all might like to know. Peace, Michael NP-Lonely In The Night-Eric Johnson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:07:43 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Tit for Tat (NJC) Jim wrote: "So, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to leave the JMDL. As a matter of fact, I'm going to have to ask you *all* to leave. After all, if Chili is offended, aren't we all guilty? Insulted by one of our number, aren't we all guilty? Since I was on digest at the time, I'm blameless.... As other digests like Steve Dulson are also, equally blameless. So you folks using non-digest mode are just going to have to leave. I'm sorry it all has to end like this." Oh God Jim I am on digest, and besides I was away in Honduras, so can I stay PLEASE??? Then Kakki wrote: "Good cover-up re Julie! She almost gave us away yesterday with her post. What would the rest of them think if they found out that the 50 or so of us regular posters were actually professional actors hired as shills for Reprise?? Thanks alot Kakki. Thanks for letting the Kitty outta the bag. Now our checks will probably bounce this week. Paz ImSeriousHere P.S. You guys kill me! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:31:06 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Shopping at Borders (SJC) Went for a splurge tonight at Borders on La Cienega. TTT is prominently displayed in an end-aisle listening display upstairs. Finally picked up the much-scorned Hinton biography of Joni (couldn't resist), the Elvis/Burt CD (ooh nice) and also Jimmy Webb's long-awaited book on songwriting, "Tunesmith." This book has had much acclaim, but as I quickly flipped through it I got a feeling that it may be a little skewed to the music of some of us, ahem, old geezers (oh, boo hoo). For years Webb has lauded Joni as one of the greatest songwriters of all time and I noticed he thanks her in the acknowledgments page. Unfortunately, there are no names listed in the index, but I did see a few mentions of her already in the book. This is a dense, comprehensive book so it will take me awhile to get through it, but I will post the Joni content at some point. Kakki NP: Such Unlikely Lovers - Costello and Bacharach ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:40:55 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: I can't believe this! I am so angry, hurt, and disappointed. Chili is gone (not to mention the beautiful Mrs. Chili) and now Ric. This is getting insane. All I have to say is, will the last person to leave, please turn out the lights, slam the door, and oh yeah, make sure the stove is turned off, we wouldn't want this once beautiful place to burn down would we? Stewing, Michael NP-The bloody computer humming ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:08:24 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Everyone's a Critic Michael Yarbrough responded to my statement: <<>> with: >I don't understand this statement. You're right, Michael. Instead of "criticize" I should have said "put down." I just have so much adoration for Joni's unparalelled talent that I get carried away. Sorry for the "full of shit" comment, Terry. Even with an emoticon it was rude. It's just that I am so sick of my friends saying Joni is a whiner & the press portraying her as self-important that I sometimes lash out. I am awestruck by Joni's latest paintings and record. To me she is the greatest artist of the 20th century, surpassing Martha Graham & Pablo Picasso (& dwarfing Bob Dylan). E.T. NP: TTT for the hundredth time & loving it more with each listen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:22:33 -0400 (EDT) From: pswmusic@interport.net (Esquizito) Subject: Re: Joni as producer However, even Klein >himself has said recently that he is just now starting to really "get" who >Joni is. Woah, isn't that a loaded quote! Are we to presume that this means musically only? Can "personally" be separated from "artistically" when dealing with Joni? Soundz like a Joni song in the making. >I do really like his production on the Julia Fordham, Shawn Colvin I pled ignorance, i.e. only familiar with JF's debut recording. Esquizito www.interport.net/~pswmusic ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:26:05 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni as producer Esquizito wrote: >(kakki quote) However, even Klein >>himself has said recently that he is just now starting to really "get" who >>Joni is. > Woah, isn't that a loaded quote! Are we to presume that this >means musically only? Can "personally" be separated from "artistically" >when dealing with Joni? Don't know if they can be separated but I do like Klein's candidness and thought it was only meant in the most loving, if not regretful, way. >Soundz like a Joni song in the making. When I first saw his quote about finally "getting" who she is, I thought of these lyrics from the Joni song already written - "we talk of love in terms of sacrifice and compromise last chance, last chance lost last chance lost the hero cannot make the change last chance lost the shrew will not be tamed last chance lost" Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:35:35 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Calling all Birthday wishers Calling all Birthday wishers Here is todays current list for the Birthday Card. Many of you are only putting your location. If you want to add your name please resend, IF NOT YOU NEED NOT DO ANYTHING ELSE! There seems to be so confusion on this matter. Best to all, michael And the NomiKnees are: Amy Hahn Anne Madden Ashara Stansfield BarBearUh Berwyn, ILLinois Boise, Idaho, U.S.A. bokonon@texas.net, San Antonio, Brett Code Claudio W. Kairuz Colorado Springs, Co Coolangatta-Queensland-Australi dduncan@ipa.net-Rogers, Arkansa Denise Moser Broomall, PA USA Drew Dix Fred Simon Gloucester Twp, Camden County, Helen Gill Howard Wright Jacky Walls Jerry Notaro Jessica Sendra, Ann Arbor, Mi. Jill Lynn Julie Z. Webb, Pittsburgh, Penn Jussi Pukkila Katie Barnicle Kay Ashley, Brooklyn, New York Ken Sharp Kenny Grant Las Vegas, Nevada Lori Fye, San Antonio, Texas LVdH, California Marian Russell Mariana-Los Angeles-California- Mark Domyancich Marsha Doyle Neil Penwell Paul Headon Paul Meyer-Strom Paul Miller Phil Gibbs Phillip Fulham,Galway,Ireland Phillipsburg, New Jersey Phyliss Ward Port Angeles, Washington, USA-- Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, Ca Rachel Kramer Robbert VanSprang Roger Walker, Springboro,Ohio Ron Nusca San Fransisco, California Savannah, Georgia Sean-Dublin-Ireland Shoreline, Washington USA Sleepy Hollow, NY, USA Steve and Leslie Mixon Steve Dulson Sue Cameron Susan Cooper Terry Matlen Vicki Harris Waltzenfree Only five more shopping days left. Please make your selves known. HELLO!!! Michael ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #417 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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