From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #416 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 14 1998 Volume 03 : Number 416 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Nashville@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com Orlando@jmdl.com -Tampa@jmdl.com Sunrise@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni's Paintings ["Eric Taylor" ] Buffalo 66 (was Re: some NJC) (still NJC) [David Wright ] Re: Producer for Joni ["Eric Taylor" ] Bufallo 66 (was Re: some NJC) (still NJC) ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Re: Joni's Paintings ["Philipf" ] Music Boulevard - PLEASE READ! [mann@chicagonet.net] RE: Producer for Joni [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: Joni's Paintings [TerryM2442@aol.com] Joni as producer [Johnwe2@aol.com] Re: Joni's Paintings [Barrylauri@aol.com] atlanata/nashville [Tunajon@aol.com] Joni Video [WirlyPearl@aol.com] Re: Joni Video [Jerry Notaro ] Re: JM in US ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re: Festive Joni [Phyliss Ward ] Tour date- Atlanta [Barrylauri@aol.com] Re: Music Boulevard (NJC, but there could be...) [sherrie.good@chronicle.] Lucinda on Sessions (NJC) [sherrie.good@chronicle.com] michael y [Gellerray@aol.com] Joni on Radio ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Bumpersticker Idea ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Siberry NJC [Rob Jordan ] Re: Producer for Joni ["Don Rowe" ] RE: JMDL Digest V3 #414 [Bounced Message ] On Catfights [Bounced Message ] Re: Joni on Radio [Phyliss Ward ] bumper sticker [Scott & Jen & Anna Spring <3bunas@accessatlanta.com>] Re: bumper sticker [Drewdix@aol.com] Re: Shadows and Light [Gertus@aol.com] matthew shepard (NJC) [Bill Dollinger ] Re: bumper sticker [Bill Dollinger ] Today in Joni History - October 15 [Today in Joni History ] Re: bumper sticker [Bill Dollinger ] RE: matthew shepard (NJC) [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: Joni as producer [pswmusic@interport.net (Esquizito)] Re: attitude & so forth (jc) [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Joni as producer ["Kakki" ] Re: Producer for Joni (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] Re: bumper sticker ["Marsha" ] NJC Michael Y's Birthday ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Re: Producer for Joni (NJC) ["Marsha" ] Larry As Joni's Producer ["Don Rowe" ] Re: michael y [Charstarl@aol.com] Re: Producer for Joni (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] Shawn Colvin tunings [John Lasater ] Re: matthew shepard (NJC) [Charstarl@aol.com] (NJC) Re: message from Michael "Carville" Moore [Bill Dollinger Subject: Joni's Paintings Terry wrote: >Joni's work always looked to me to be contrived efforts >to imitate her heros. She does have one hell of a good eye >and her technique is right up there. But what I feel that's lacking >is a vision that can stand up on it's own. Well here's an arrow aimed right at your bullseye! :~& You're simply full of shit! ; Subject: Buffalo 66 (was Re: some NJC) (still NJC) Julie Z. Webb wrote: > >I haven't seen anything worth writing about here since >"Buffallo 66." Feel free to email me privately for my review. Really? I saw Buffalo 66 the other day and despite some very good things about it I DESPISED it (sorry Julie) because of its egoism and homophobia and above all its incredible, overpowering misogyny. It's supposed to be a sweet, melancholy love story about an unlikely pair who are made for each other, I guess, but what basis do we have for accepting this when all we find out about Christina Ricci's character is she's a vegetarian tap-dancer? (Not to mention the whole objectified baby-doll way she's made to look.) What on earth does she see in him? For Vincent Gallo, the fact that he's Vincent Gallo is answer enough, I guess. Not only that, Gallo's justification for his character's behavior is that his character's *mother* neglected him as a child. In fact -- I'd go so far as to call it wish-fulfillment for homophobic misogynists (in this case Vincent Gallo) -- boy abuses girl, but that's his mother's fault in the first place; faceless nameless girl does everything she's told and loves and flatters boy anyway. (Every time poor Christina Ricci had to tell Vincent Gallo, "I think you're the nicest and best-looking person in the whole world etc." I wanted to throw up.) Even if I could maybe dismiss this all as part of the characterization, from the many interviews I have read with Vincent Gallo, I have gotten the pretty clear idea that he himself is genuinely misogynistic and homophobic. For example: in a cover story in a recent issue of Time Out, London's weekly events magazine, he claims to be an extreme right-wing Republican, calls Gus Van Sant's Good Will Hunting "a faggot movie" (!) and "horrible," calls Christina Ricci "Judas" and takes all the credit for her performance, etc. Plus a lot more if anyone is interested or needs more convincing. It's like he thinks if he spews this shit in large enough quantities, everyone will put it down to empty posturing rather than seeing the grain (or boulder) of truth in it, and of course it gets him tons of publicity. Kind of like, if you tell a big enough lie... Well, the bastard's been getting away with it, judging by the reviews so far. JMHO. Has anyone else felt this way? Any thoughts, anyone, please? Sorry, I needed to get all that off my chest, I'll work on some JC and post it soon, I promise, - --David NP: _Celtic Mouth Music_ (Ellipsis Arts series) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 03:12:58 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Paintings In a message dated 10/14/98 3:06:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ewwtaylor@prodigy.net writes: << Well here's an arrow aimed right at your bullseye! :~& You're simply full of shit! ;> Among the greatest artists of our century, I'll agree with. But one of the greatest painters? Now who's talking shit? Furthermore, I think your reply to Marsha's comment was unnecessarily rude, regardless of your personal opinion. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 03:28:14 -0400 (EDT) From: pswmusic@interport.net (Esquizito) Subject: Re: Joni's Paintings Uh Oh, Here we go again - just when you thought it was safe... Look folks, for what it's worth, here's my philosophy for experiencing art - it's simple: Either you like it, or you don't. Everything else in human experience seems to be constantly under defense, as an artist I would hope that we could allow art to transcend. Going on digest, Esquizito ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 03:22:13 -0700 From: al date Subject: CA concert info -- Sons of Champlin -- NJC The Sons of Champlin are leading off for Huey Lewis at Concord Pavilion on Friday night. 10/16. Sons just released a CD of a recent live show which is available at dead.net, and which is highly acclaimed in a recent Examiner review. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:27:40 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Producer for Joni Anne Madden wrote: >Much as I am a huge fan of Joni's, I honestly believe >her ego would get in the way and not allow her to have >someone else produce one of her albums! >Please don't jump all over me for saying this but >just because someone is a poetic genius and can write >brilliant lyrics doesn't necessarily mean they are good >record producers! I don't understand how "huge" Joni fans can criticize her production, lyrics & paintings. I honestly don't mean to jump all over anyone. It's just that I think Joni is damn-near perfect in all of those departments. Personally I am so glad Joni does her own thing. TTT is yet another example of how far ahead of her time she really is. It sounds like nothing anyone else has ever produced! What a masterpiece (that probably won't be fully appreciated until she's long dead)! But I would like to see Barbra produce Joni's next album of covers. Now that would be fun... E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:06:37 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Bufallo 66 (was Re: some NJC) (still NJC) At 04:18 AM 10/13/98 +0100, David wrote: > Really? I saw Buffalo 66 the other day and despite some very good things >about it I DESPISED it (sorry Julie) because of its egoism and homophobia >and above all its incredible, overpowering misogyny. It's supposed to be a >sweet, melancholy love story about an unlikely pair who are made for each >other, I guess, but what basis do we have for accepting this when all we >find out about Christina Ricci's character is she's a vegetarian >tap-dancer? (Not to mention the whole objectified baby-doll way she's made >to look.) Hi David, I discovered Vincent Gallo's politics after I saw the movie. I also read a couple of interviews, I chuckled to myself thinking that this guy has a habit of coming off as a complete egomaniacal asshole. But getting back to the movie, I guess, for me, "some of the very good things" about the story overshadowed it's weaknesses. Far more than the love story component, the neurotic character development of Billy Brown, fasinated me, and for that reason alone, Id recommend it. -JulieZW ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 07:10:31 -0400 From: jw1327 Subject: Joni as producer... Anne Madden wrote: > Much as I am a huge fan of Joni's, I honestly believe her ego would get in > the way and not allow her to have someone else produce one of her albums! > Please don't jump all over me for saying this but just because someone is a > poetic genius and can write brilliant lyrics doesn't necessarily mean they > are good record producers! I find myself in agreement with this statement. As gorgeous sounding as TTT is (also, at times, over-synthesized), it cries out for a producer. I love the album, but I think it's plain that our Joan could use some guidance here... There, I've said it. James, the Conspiracy Chronicler ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:13:51 +0100 From: "Philipf" Subject: Re: Joni's Paintings I liked the watercolours she used in the songbooks in the early 70's. The pictures were a great way to get more information on the background to the songs. Then came the Court and Spark book which was filled with not very interesting colour photographs, not taken by Joni. They seemed like fairly standard gallery fare and added little to the songs. I recall a fellow wearing a mask posing in front of The Eiffel Tower and the same mask on a statue in another picture. I often wondered what that was all about. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:49:54 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Music Boulevard - PLEASE READ! Music Boulevard is giving $10 free Music away with orders placed today. I just placed an order EVEN THO MY OTHER COUPON ORDER IS ON HOLD and for only $1.75 (the first check I'm sending in!) got a current CD. This one should work! http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/2964_0_main.txt^S&FS=INFOSEEK Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:16:32 -0400 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: Producer for Joni Eric Taylor wrote: <<>> I don't understand this statement. Do we surrender our critical thinking skills when we sign the Jonifan contract? I must have skipped that clause... At least someone has finally explicitly stated what others seem to believe. - --Michael, very, very exasperated NP: NPR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:43:38 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Paintings In a message dated 10/14/98 3:17:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, IVPAUL42@aol.com writes: << Among the greatest artists of our century, I'll agree with. But one of the greatest painters? Now who's talking shit? Furthermore, I think your reply to Marsha's comment was unnecessarily rude, regardless of your personal opinion. >> Thanks, Paul. Actually, the arrows were aimed at me. Again, at the risk of ever ever earning a date with Joni, shooting billiards and munching on Fritos, I stand my ground. Again, it is only MY opinion and I've yet to see her pieces in the flesh, but they are not impressive pieces of original art. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:14:47 EDT From: Johnwe2@aol.com Subject: Joni as producer This is a good thread. The only producer Joni has really had is Larry Klein. I would like to hear what an outside producer (Daniel Lanois) would do with Joni. I love Emmylou Harris and Wrecking Ball, and also most of Daniel Lanois productions: Dylan, Peter Gabriel, U2, Robbie Robertson, etc. I also like his own albums, especially "Acadie"sp?. However, you must remember Joni self produced Blue, C & S, Hejira, Hissing, etc. I guess I think Joni wants complete control of a recording. If not control, maybe responsibility would be the right word. I'm rambling. I also think some artists rely on producers too much, when the production or the producer's sound outshines the artist. What would Janet Jackson sound like without Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis? What artist out there are capable of producing themselves? Will Madonna ever put out a completely self-produced album with MUSIC and lyrics by Madonna, keyboards and guitar played by Madonna, etc. ( I am not picking on Madonna, just using her as an example. She makes good albums and picks the right collaborators for projects) The songs on the Kyle Eastwood and Herbie Hancock CD's were produced by others, and I love Joni's vocals on those tracks. Has Dylan ever self produced, I don't know I'm just curious. Bye for now NP Cassandra Wilson "Strange Fruit" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:18:03 EDT From: Barrylauri@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Paintings In a message dated 98-10-14 03:29:03 EDT, you write: > Look folks, for what it's worth, here's my philosophy for > experiencing art - it's simple: Either you like it, or you don't. Exactly!! Why then would we have so many diverse paintings in our art museums if we all had the same views?? Quite obviously, we wouldn't. I'm not a Picasso fan but he certainly had a great gift. Your point is well taken!! Laurie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:22:20 EDT From: Tunajon@aol.com Subject: atlanata/nashville Hi, Not to be overly impatient, but does anyone have any knowledge of the status of the nashville and/or atlanta shows. It's been too quiet for too long regarding these shows/tickets. Thanks, Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:24:41 EDT From: WirlyPearl@aol.com Subject: Joni Video I found this listing on Music Boulevard. (copied directly from listing) Video Evening With Joni Mitchell by Mitchell, Joni Record Label: Baktabak , Scheduled for release on 12/01/98 Our Price: $71.99 List $79.95/Save $7.96 Since it will be released for sale, I guess it can't be put on a tape tree. Get a load of the price!!! I guess it will be reduced a little later on, I hope. (What company is Baktabak? ) Pearl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:37:47 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni Video Yikes! A $79.95 music video? Most are between $14.95 to $19.95 in order to promote the music of the artist. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:57:22 -0400 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: JM in US - ---------- > From: jan gyn > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: JM in US > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 1:06 PM > > There's a JM article in the current issue of US, complete with high school > yearbook picture. > -jan > I got my copy yesterday, I enjoyed it! Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:05:29 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Festive Joni > In a message dated 10/7/98 0:09:05AM, jason.maloney@virgin.net writes: > > << Maybe it's a UK-only trait, but Joni's version of my Best To You could > stand a great chance of chart success if released as a "Christmas" > single...... >> Ah yes! She could put it as a suprise on the album of "morbid little Christmas songs" she's been promising... It's comin' on Christmas, they're cutting down trees... I went so numb on Christmas day I couldn't feel my hands and feet... - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:16:25 EDT From: Barrylauri@aol.com Subject: Tour date- Atlanta FINALLY--- In the Atlanta Journal Consitution they reported the Dylan-Mitchell tour is set for November 7 at 7:00 p.m. to be held at Georgia Tech's Alexander Memorial Coliseum. Tickets will be priced at $60 & $40 and will go on sale via Ticketmaster at 10:00 a.m. Saturday. For more info call 404 - 249- 6400. Can't wait!!!!!!!!!! Laurie in Atlanta ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:34:07 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: Re: Music Boulevard (NJC, but there could be...) Thanks Laura! I LOVE these coupons you and Kenny alert us to. I just ordered Katie Webster, The Swamp Boogie Queen, for about $7.00 total, including S&H. Fabu. Sherrie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:01:05 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: Lucinda on Sessions (NJC) last night, at 10:30, I flipped on the tv, and there was Lucinda Williams on Sessions. It was half way through the show, and I don't have the VCRs set up yet. So we just watched. All songs off 'Car Wheels' during the last half. Did anyone tape it? She sounded great, as usual. I saw her Friday night here in DC at a benefit with Emmylou and Steve Earle, Sheryl Crow, Willy Nelson. The evening had ups and downs, all connected to the sound board. Emmylou's vocals weren't loud enough, but her opening song, 'Love Hurts', choked me up. Steve Earle was way to loud overall. Lucinda's set had good sound. Her duet with Emmylou on 'Greenville' was very nice. And I'm going to see Lucinda this Saturday with just her band at the Birchmere! The highlight of the Friday night benefit show: Lucinda singing Dylan's 'Masters Of War' It was one of the most amazing things I've heard in some time. Sherrie NP: Taming the Tiger ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:27:54 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: michael y happy birthday michael. raymond ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:43:54 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni on Radio As I write this, Joni is featured in a special all-Joni episode of "The World Cafe". I tried to tape it all but I missed the first 15 minutes. Bonnie Raitt did a great cover that I managed to catch. - -- "In the end what's important is how many of those moments I *catch*, not how many I *miss*." Channelling for Francis Ford Coppala, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:47:45 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Bumpersticker Idea On the left side it just says "Joni" in huge letters. On the right side, in much smaller print it says, "Rocks, swings, scats, produces, paints, strums, tickles, draws." - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:08:01 +0100 From: Rob Jordan Subject: Re: Siberry NJC At 17:33 13/10/98 EDT, AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: >Azeem in London, digesting the contents of a weird and wonderful newsletter >from Jane Siberry - incidentally, I don't remember Joni ever namechecking >Siberry. I hope she's aware of Sib, as she's everything a great artist should >be: gifted, mercurial, idiosyncratic, totally independent (she runs Sheeba >records literally single-handed) and inspirational. I've probably said this >before, but "Oh My My" is one of the most extraordinary pieces of music I've >ever heard. A spiritual path set to music. Peace... Hi Azeem, We missed you on the Dar evening. You might have enjoyed Dar's endorsement of therapy; nshe is a fantastic advertisement for it. She was deeply depressed as a teenager and is now the most positive, energising spirit you could wish to encounter. "I know what everybody thinks, that [therapy] just makes you selfish and in love with your shrink. But oh, how I loved everybody else, when I finally got to talk so much about myself". Good to see a batch of posts from you today. I also got and enjoyed the Siberry newsletter. I noticed she now offers the videos in PAL format, so they may be on my Christmas list! Oh My My? Which album is that on? I adore When I Was A Boy - it's on my short list of all-time favourites. I also have Bound By The Beauty, and Child, which I was surprisingly impressed with. I suppose my expectations were not high for a Christmas double album, but the sound of that band is *so* warm and inviting. Beautiful. According to JMDL recommendations, Maria should be the next. Did you see Jane in London last year? I missed it. I would've really liked to be at her weekend in Dublin but couldn't make that one either. I didn't know Lucinda was coming next month - I need to see if I can get a ticket. I'm out of town for the Lloyd Cole date, so can't make that one. Best wishes Rob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:55:03 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Producer for Joni amadden@bconnex.net writes -- > Larry Klein producing other people's cd's. The >example given was that the one of Shawn Colvin's CD's (I think it's called >Cover) produced by Larry had a Joni sound. He did the same with the Irish >singer, Mary Black when he produced the "Shine" CD. She is not a jazz >singer, yet when he was finished with this CD he had tried to turn her into >Joni - with disastrous results - it is her worst album so far in my opinion. Not that I'm the official Larry Klein defender of the jmdl or anything, but I think we may have a bit of a "chicken/egg" question on our hands here. Let's face it, we've all gotten used to the Larry Klein sound -- and it's been inseparable from Joni's music for some time now. So rather than say that Larry's trying to make other people sound like Joni, I'd venture to say that there are some artists that don't fit his production style. I think if you listen to Julia Fordham's "Falling Forward" or the debut Kyle Eastwood, neither of which sonically resemble his Joni contributions at all, but are nonetheless signature Larry Klein productions, you'll get a sense of what I'm trying to say here. >I remember hearing Joni in an interview talk about the fact that she prefers >to produce her own albums because she doesn't want anyone changing her ideas >and she used the analagy "no-one told Picasso how or want to paint, so why >would I ....". She did not want to lose creative control! Well, this is the real trick then, isn't it? Surrender yourself to a producer and still retain control. This is particularly tricky for solo artists vs. bands. For bands, and their attendant multiple egos, a producer is vital to managing the creative process, and blending what are many times divergent styles and ideas. Best in the biz at this -- Lindsey Buckingham. But for solo artists the relationship can become confrontational, with sometimes undesirable results. Trevor Horn's overlayering on Seal II comes to mind here ... though generally, Trevor is one of my favorite producers. So I think Joni's apprehensions are not unfounded. >Much as I am a huge fan of Joni's, I honestly believe her ego would get in >the way and not allow her to have someone else produce one of her albums! Well, who knows? I think if she found a producer whose technique she likes as much as she does her new VG8, she'd be all over it. I bring this up as well, just to illustrate that I don't think Joni's ego gets in the way of her trying new things just on principle. Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:19:08 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V3 #414 From: "Tyrer, Paul" Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:09:26 +0100 Hmm, all this talk about Joni getting a producer suggests that she is definitely going to *do* a new album! Does anyone else get the sense that JM is actually trying to bring her recording career to a close? I thought that the end-tracks of both Turbulent Indigo and TTT were potential 'this song is to close my career' songs. Thankfully, we got the hopeful one in 'Here's to You' not the tragedy of Job. Anyway, instead of someone else producing Joni (I think she produces herself immaculately), she should produce someone else. She'd definitely improve the sound of Kiss, for example. Kiss? My ass! Paul X Paul Tyrer Research Associate ESRC Violence, Sexuality and Space Project Institute for Women's Studies, Lancaster University. Tel 01524 594740 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:18:18 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: On Catfights From: "Eric Taylor" Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:11:25 -0400 Wally wrote: >I'm sorry to see the disappearance of a few list members due to >an altercation with another member. I have to say that the energy >utilized in dramatically vacating the list would be more useful >in helping to build up our community. Right on, Wally! I was tempted to uns.ubscribe from the jmdl last spring because I took criticism way too seriously. Then I remembered why I subscribed in the first place and felt like a big baby. I'm so happy to hear about all the new people visiting your website! I've been there dozens of times and still find amazing tidbits. Last night I discovered your page on songs Joni has yet to release and long to hear them on a boxed set. Is it true that one is in the works? Vicki wrote: >This is my first post after eavesdropping for quite some time. >(I had some concern that "loose wires would be lashing out at me" >...since I'm not sure if I'm up to date on list ettiquette.) >Anyway, I love the JMDL and the varied opinions I hear on Joni's work. >Thanks for being here. Welcome Vicki! I've been here since January and have found that the jmdl enlists some of of the most intelligent, sensitive people I've ever met. What else could you expect from Joni fans? And opinionated? Oh my my! Many I've butted heads with have turned out to be total sweethearts. I look forward to your input. & Mark, Impressions of the Tiger was SO beautiful! E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:36:04 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Joni on Radio Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > As I write this, Joni is featured in a special all-Joni episode of "The > World Cafe". Is this radio or TV? Could it be repeated??-- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:47:13 -0700 From: Scott & Jen & Anna Spring <3bunas@accessatlanta.com> Subject: bumper sticker Lots of good bumper sticker suggestions... How about just Urge for Going and the e-mail address? (going away, going to the show... ) Jen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:13:02 EDT From: Drewdix@aol.com Subject: Re: bumper sticker LOVE the bumper sticker idea. I missed the beginning...do we actually have a method/vendor to print these? And, i dunno, but when I saw the suggestion of "My other car is a BIG YELLOW TAXI" I laughed out loud. I like this one alot, and maybe it could have the Joni www address in small type on the bottom. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:43:26 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: Shadows and Light Hi Monica Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:53:41 +0200 (CEST) From: cco@xs4all.nl Subject: Shadows and Light Video I've been looking for years for the Shadows and Light video (VHS, 'European' system), with no success. Can anyone help me out? Thanks, Monica I was on the same quest myself for ages. I don't think that a European version of S&L was ever released and it certainly is not available now. This is a tragedy because it's brilliant. I know this because I have finally got to see it. A kind lister made a copy of the US version for me which, of course, didn't work on my machine. I then found a company who converted the tape onto a European format so now I can watch it! I also discovered that you can now buy VCRs which will play both systems but buying a new VCR seemed a bit extravagant! Anyway, the quality of my recording is not the best but you would be very welcome to come and watch it if you ever visit the UK. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:48:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: matthew shepard (NJC) I guess the following plea has been circulating the internet. I don't have a clue as to whether or not it is authentic (why would an account be set up in colorado? who gets the money?) I do think that anyone who is left wanting to do more should call their senators and representatives and tell them you want them to put down the starr report and pass federal hate crimes legislation. I read this morning that reverend fred phelps of kansas is planning to picket the boy's funeral. Again, i can't vouch for the following, anyone else? - -bill - ------------ This is for the young man who was beaten, burned and strung up like a scarecrow to die for being gay. He was a 21-year-old college student at the University of Wyoming. ---------- Sending condolences to Matthew Shepard's family: An E-mail address has been set up for condolences to Shepard's family. E-mail should be sent to: mshepard@libra.pvh.org. A memorial fund has also been set up in Matthew Shepard's name. Donations should be sent to: Fund for the Benefit of Matthew Shepard c/o First National Bank P.O. Box 578 Fort Collins, CO 80522 Account No. 1926083 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:49:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: Re: bumper sticker On Wed, 14 Oct 1998 Drewdix@aol.com wrote: > LOVE the bumper sticker idea. I missed the beginning...do we actually have a > method/vendor to print these? I do know someone who works for a company that does stickers, i would be willing to ask if we had an idea of how many we would want and what it would say. bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:51:00 +0000 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - October 15 1997: Today, the Newhouse News Service publishes a story on aging rock n' rollers, saying of Joni "Mitchell, who was inducted--finally--into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame last year, still plays pinball and snaps at old flames (she recently got into a tussle with Jackson Browne), which makes her cooler than a lot of people half her age. " Read about the old geezers at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/nns971015.htm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:49:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: Re: bumper sticker On Wed, 14 Oct 1998 Drewdix@aol.com wrote: > LOVE the bumper sticker idea. I missed the beginning...do we actually have a > method/vendor to print these? I do know someone who works for a company that does stickers, i would be willing to ask if we had an idea of how many we would want and what it would say. bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:11:15 -0400 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: matthew shepard (NJC) Bill wrote: <<>> This is authentic information. Matthew was hospitalized in Fort Collins, CO, which is very close to where he was found, and, incidentally, not too far from Jonifest '99. They have not yet announced who will get the money, only that it will go to "causes Matthew believed in." I'm not sending a dime until I hear what causes his family decides he believed in, hoping of course that anti-hate-violence projects are among them. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:52:39 -0400 (EDT) From: pswmusic@interport.net (Esquizito) Subject: Re: Joni as producer >I also think some artists rely on producers >too much, when the production or the producer's sound outshines the artist. I agree, furthermore... >What would Janet Jackson sound like without Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis? Janet wouldn't be on the map if it weren't for JJ&TL. (Go ahead, fire away - not that I dislike the work.) >Will Madonna ever put out a completely self-produced album with MUSIC and lyrics by >Madonna, I hope not - but it aint up to me, is it? >She makes good albums and picks the right collaborators for projects) If you're refering to M and not JM here, William Orbit was apparently not M's first choice; Massive Attack and Tricky both declined her invitations. It's speculation but, I think Jaco and Larry Carlton had alot to do with the sound of those mid/late-70's Joni recordings. >NP Cassandra Wilson "Strange Fruit" I think above's producer is brilliant, Craig Street - and they're both Joni-heads. Lanois doesn't always work for me. "Complete control" can be nice, but from my own experience, it's challenging to detatch. At least one pair of "objective" ears is preferable. Esquizito www.interport.net/~pswmusic P.S. No, not "we all" have "gotten used" to LK's production. I for one would characterize my position as "tolerant" at best. (Time to chill.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:00:21 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: attitude & so forth (jc) In a message dated 10/13/98 2:15:11PM, TerryM2442@aol.com writes: << I have puposely stayed out of any and all discussion on Joni's paintings for two reasons. One, I've never seen one in person. Two, what I've seen in print has never impressed me. Ok, I lied. [...] Joni's work always looked to me to be contrived efforts to imitate her heros. >> Can't agree with you there squire. I saw the exhibition in London a few years ago (yeah, that's the second time in two days I've shoehorned a reference to that occasion into a post:-), and was pretty impressed. I have the catalogue, and although it gives you a good idea of where she's coming from, it is nothing like seeing the originals - as with any paintings. There were some beautiful abstracts, with really sensual use of colour and texture, a Matisse reference (OK, a direct quote!), some loving portraits of Larry, and plenty more. Anyhow, that's my take on Joni as painter. Azeem in London NP (or rather, just finished): Tim Finn, "Before and After". Lovely. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:01:46 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni as producer Esquizito wrote: > It's speculation but, I think Jaco and Larry Carlton had alot to do >with the sound of those mid/late-70's Joni recordings. I wouldn't call it speculation at all. They had a whole lot to do with her sound then. But again, she was still the one who picked them and related to them the essence of the sound that she wanted. > P.S. No, not "we all" have "gotten used" to LK's production. I for >one would characterize my position as "tolerant" at best. (Time to chill.) I am more tolerant now than in the past. Who knows? Maybe in another 10-20 years we will "get" what Larry was trying to achieve. However, even Klein himself has said recently that he is just now starting to really "get" who Joni is. I do really like his production on the Julia Fordham, Shawn Colvin and Kyle Eastwood albums. I have just always had a hard time appreciating what he brought to Joni's music. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:20:52 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Producer for Joni (NJC) Anne wrote: > The example given was that the one of Shawn Colvin's CD's (I think it's called Cover) produced by Larry had a Joni sound. The CD is called "Cover Girl," and it's an album of cover tunes. Quite good, if you haven't heard it. For the record, Lori (a big S.C. fan) San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:26:21 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: bumper sticker - -----Original Message----- From: Drewdix@aol.com To: 3bunas@accessatlanta.com <3bunas@accessatlanta.com>; joni@smoe.org Date: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 2:19 PM Subject: Re: bumper sticker >LOVE the bumper sticker idea. I missed the beginning...do we actually have a >method/vendor to print these? Yea, our own Roger Walker at: rwalker@erinet.com has offered to make them. Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:08:00 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: NJC Michael Y's Birthday Happy Birthday Michael, and thanks for being part of the reason why this community is interesting to me. Don't know if you are a Van Morrison fan, but this song has been on my mind today--- I love it, so here is my gift to you: "Take Me Back" I've been walking by the river I've been walking down by the water I've been walking down by the river I've been feeling so sad and blue I've been thinking, I've been thinking, I've been thinking, I've been thinking, I've been thinking, I've been thinking, Ah there's so much suffering, and it's Too much confusion, too much, too much confusion in the world Take me back, take me back, take me back Take me way back, take me way back, take me way back Take me way back, take me way back, take me way back Take me way back, take me way back, ah! Take me way, way, way, way, way, way, way back, huh! Help me un.....help me understand Take me, do you remember the time darlin' When everything made more sense in the world (yeah) Oh I remember, I remember When life made more sense Ah, ah, take me back, take me back, take me back, take me back Take me back, take me back, take me back, take me back Take me back (woah) to when the world made more sense Well there's too much suffering and confusion And I'm walking down by the river Oh, let me understand religion Way, way back, way back When you walked, in a green field, in a green meadow Down an avenue of trees On a, on a golden summer And the sky was blue And you didn't have no worries, you didn't have no care You were walking in a green field In a meadow, through the buttercups, in the summertime And you looked way out over, way out Way out over the city and the water And it feels so good, and it feels so good And you keep on walking And the music on the radio, and the music on the radio Has so much soul, has so much soul And you listen, in the nightime While we're still and quiet And you look out on the water And the big ships, and the big boats Came on sailing by, by, by, by And you felt so good, and I felt so good I felt I wanna blow my harmonica Take me back, there, take me way back there Take me back, take me back, take me back Take me way, way, way back, way back To when, when I understood When I understood the light, when I understood the light In the golden afternoon, in the golden afternoon In the golden afternoon, in the golden afternoon In the golden afternoon when we sat and listened to Sonny Boy blow In the golden afternoon when We sat and let Sonny Boy, blow, blow his harp Take me back, take me back, take me back Take me way, way, way, way, way, way, way Back when I, when I understood, when I understood, yeah Oh, ah, take me way back, when, when, when, when, when, when When, when, when, when, when, when, when I was walking down the Walking down the street and It didn't matter `Cause everything felt, everything felt, everything felt Everything felt, everything felt, everything felt, everything felt Everything felt, everything felt, everything felt so right, ha And so good Everything felt, so right, and so good Everything felt, so right, and so good Everything felt, so right, and so good, ah Everything felt, so right, and so good Everything felt, so right, and so good, so good In the eternal now, in the eternal moment In the eternal now, in the eternal moment In the eternal now Everything felt so good, so good, so good, so good, so good And so right, so right, so right, just So good, so right, so right, in the eternal In the eternal moment, in the eternal moment In the eternal moment, in the eternal moment When you lived, when you lived When you lived, in the light When you lived in the grace In the grace, in grace When you lived in the light In the light, in the grace And the blessing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:38:22 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: Producer for Joni (NJC) - -----Original Message----- From: LRFye@aol.com To: joni@smoe.org Date: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Producer for Joni (NJC) >Anne wrote: > >> The example given was that the one of Shawn Colvin's CD's (I think it's >called Cover) produced by Larry had a Joni sound. > >The CD is called "Cover Girl," and it's an album of cover tunes. Quite good, >if you haven't heard it. > >For the record, Sorry, Lori, but Shawn produced her own Cover Girl, along with Stewart Smith and David Kahne assisting her. Larry produced Shawn's Fat City. Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:50:57 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Larry As Joni's Producer I'm starting to pick up a lot of negative energy focused on Larry Klein's production of Joni. Since I wasn't around the list when TI was new -- was there some hand-wringing about the production at the time? If so, what didn't people like? I've always sort of considered a good producer equivalent to a good baseball umpire -- if they're doing they're job right, you shouldn't be able to tell they're there. For me, the TI production certainly fits that definition ... I've always thought that Larry's bass playing on the album had/has much more effect on the sound than anything he did in post-production. Just fishing, let me know list! :-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:52:48 EDT From: Charstarl@aol.com Subject: Re: michael y In a message dated 10/14/98 10:31:20 AM Mountain Daylight Time, Gellerray@aol.com writes: << Subj: michael y Date: 10/14/98 10:31:20 AM Mountain Daylight Time happy birthday michael. raymond >> There must be a lot of good people born around this time of year! Mine is tomorrow and I'm starting to celebrate tonight! As you get older and longer in the tooth it takes longer to get all of that birthday cheer out of your system. Anyway, Happiest of Birthdays Michael. I always enjoy your posts. Hope to meet you one day. Be well and stay safe! Char* in Spudland ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:54:11 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Producer for Joni (NJC) Marsha wrote: > Sorry, Lori, but Shawn produced her own Cover Girl, along with > Stewart Smith and David Kahne assisting her. > Larry produced Shawn's Fat City. Marsha, you're correct. I was really responding to Anne's remark that the album is called "Cover." After I hit Send, I thought to myself that it didn't seem to me that Larry produced that album. He did indeed produce "Fat City," which is also a wonderful album. ("Tennessee" is a great tune, yes?) I'm glad you mentioned Stewart Smith; he is a fine lead guitarist who, with Larry K., toured with Shawn a few years ago. The three of them played well together and were a delight to the ears. Thanks! Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:50:25 -0400 (EDT) From: John Lasater Subject: Shawn Colvin tunings On Wed, 14 Oct 1998 LRFye@aol.com wrote: > Lori (a big S.C. fan) > San Antonio Me too, Lori. Like Joni, she frequently uses non-standard tunings. Have any of the guitar players out there ever tried to figure out any of her songs? By the way, in the liner notes to "Cover Girl," she says that her arrangement of "Every Little Thing (s)He Does Is Magic" came about while she was trying to figure out a Joni Mitchell song.) John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:02:34 EDT From: Charstarl@aol.com Subject: Re: matthew shepard (NJC) We here in Boise are remembering Matthew Shepard and other victims of hate crimes with a candlelight vigil tonight on the Idaho Capitol steps. I think letting our voices be heard in grief and outrage at such a senseless death is the appropriate way to grieve for Matthew and countless others. Char* << I guess the following plea has been circulating the internet. I don't have a clue as to whether or not it is authentic (why would an account be set up in colorado? who gets the money?) I do think that anyone who is left wanting to do more should call their senators and representatives and tell them you want them to put down the starr report and pass federal hate crimes legislation. I read this morning that reverend fred phelps of kansas is planning to picket the boy's funeral. Again, i can't vouch for the following, anyone else?>> -bill ------------ This is for the young man who was beaten, burned and strung up like a scarecrow to die for being gay. He was a 21-year-old college student at the University of Wyoming. ---------- Sending condolences to Matthew Shepard's family: An E-mail address has been set up for condolences to Shepard's family. E-mail should be sent to: mshepard@libra.pvh.org. A memorial fund has also been set up in Matthew Shepard's name. Donations should be sent to: Fund for the Benefit of Matthew Shepard c/o First National Bank P.O. Box 578 Fort Collins, CO 80522 Account No. 1926083 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:15:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: (NJC) Re: message from Michael "Carville" Moore tho i thought i was clear when i said i was not interested in discussing the starr inquisition, and that i was posting the message from michael moore to those who might be interested, it seems that somebody can't respect the fact that i don't want to go on about this. so here are my final thoughts on this- these are not impeachable offenses.... let it go already! i hope that repubicans get the backlash they deserve for wasting so much time with this. yes, clinton is a dufus, i voted for him and was disappointed. but this is way overboard. i respect the fact that you feel otherwise, and am really not interested in discussing our difference of opinion on a topic that has been run into the ground. bill On Wed, 14 Oct 1998 MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > The amazing thing about your post is its ignorance. Did it ever occur to you > that Richard Nixon also won two elections in landslide votes. So was forcing > him from office "overturning the will of the people" ? As for the "polls". > Every polling service that is telling you that the American people > "overwhelmingly" want Clinton left in office on the average was wrong by over > 7-10 percentage points both in 1994 and 1996 elections. The one polling > service that was accurrate shows the public to be overwhelmingly against this > president and embarrassed to have him in office. Dont try to say Nixon did > serious things and clintons are just about sex. Clinton lied in a sexual > HARRASSMENT lawsuit. Tell me you think its OK to do that and I will accept > your view but the public especially women dont. All you prove is that Joseph > Stalin was right when he said if the government can control the media it can > brainwash the entire population. 92% of the media voted for clinton. Do the > math. >Please dont feel the need to put more left wing utopian denial laced >politicalinvective on the discussion group and I wont feel the need to >let you know it is left wing utopian denial laced political invective. ciao. md> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:36:17 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Producer for Joni (NJC, really) Michael Y. (very, very exasperated on his Happy Birthday!!!) wrote: > Do we surrender our critical thinking skills when we sign the Jonifan contract? I must have skipped that clause... Yes, we do. JONI IS A GODDESS. Therefore we may not criticize her. Right? >; ) Lori, very, very amuzed ... San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:52:44 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: do i tell her? totally njc one of my six year old daughters came home today with a green apple that had a note written on it saying "talking without permission". the story of the apples is that in this first grade class, each day, each student brings home one of three colored cut out apples. red is for good behavior, yellow is for marginal behavior, and green is for bad kids. to enrich the story, we are going to disney tomorrow with all three of our children. as well, the child in question brought home a yellow apple yesterday and was told if she brings home another yellow apple today, she will not be allowed to go to disney, since she has been in a 'yellow' glut. now, my wife, who can be a stern woman, and means what she says, is teaching late tonight and will not be home till 11:00. question: should i tell her about the apple and risk the consequences for the daughter et all, since if she does not go, no one goes. or, do i burry the apple till we get back next week? by the way, in the car i asked my daughter what happened in school that led to her getting the green apple and my son interrupted her and said, 'why don't you read the apple dad, it speaks for itself.' to which i thought, he'd make a fine jmdler when he is of age. pj who is tired of the fights and reviews and the politics and the preaching and the long multiple swan songs with encore's and second encores. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #416 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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