From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #408 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, October 9 1998 Volume 03 : Number 408 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Nashville@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com Orlando@jmdl.com -Tampa@jmdl.com Sunrise@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Cops, judgees and juries. njc? [Skin Deep ] Re: Slowcoaches - Peter Gabriel (SJC) [FredNow@aol.com] RE: Good Friends Video ["wallykai" ] A bargain already?!?!?!? ["wallykai" ] Re: American currency (NJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Tom Waits, Covers" NJC [Dmascall@aol.com] Another TTT review (no yawning back there-this is short) - JC [Dmascall@a] Inappropriate - or maybe just fun (NJC) [Dmascall@aol.com] Inappropriate - or maybe just fun (NJC) [Dmascall@aol.com] Joni Cover [Skin Deep ] TTT - recording quality, popping sounds etc [Howard Wright ] NJC- Crosby/Nash [MP123A321@aol.com] Good Friends video [MP123A321@aol.com] Peter Gabriel (NJC) [Robbert ] Year of theTiger [MWalshkoba@aol.com] RE: (NJC) BarBearUh Trashing [Michael Yarbrough ] Joni Mitchell Interview On A.O.L. ["Peter Holmstedt" ] Re: Question about Joni's Bday card ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Yet another published review of TTT [BH1248@aol.com] Re: Inappropriate - or maybe just fun (NJC) [Mark or Travis ] Tape trees 1 - 5 [Jeff Klepper ] Joni in the Austin Chronicle ["Neil E. Orts" ] BarBearUh's comments ["Neil E. Orts" ] about that photo in NY Times [sherrie.good@chronicle.com] about that photo in NY Times (RR) [sherrie.good@chronicle.com] Re: Good Friends Video [jussi ] TTT review [Scott & Jen & Anna Spring <3bunas@accessatlanta.com>] yet another JM interview in rolling stone ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re: COPYRIGHT PROTECTION/POOH - NJC ["Philipf" ] Joni covers [Bounced Message ] I'm doing a show!!! NJC [Bounced Message ] RE: BarBearUh's comments [Bounced Message ] RE: jmdler love affair (NJC) [Michael Yarbrough ] Joni at #4 in Local Top Ten ["Brian J. Moon" <75211.1225@compuserve.com>] Joni Sings the Blues ["Don Rowe" ] Birthday Card ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Liz Phair on Rosie (NJC) [Mark Domyancich ] a fond farewell [RickieLee1@aol.com] TTT [Wally Breese ] Re: a fond farewell [Mark Domyancich ] How sad [catman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 00:19:48 -0700 From: Skin Deep Subject: Cops, judgees and juries. njc? If you don't like the dirty laundry someone sends you there is no sense in hanging it out on the line for all to see. Take it for what it's worth and go on. njc? Waltzenfree np Kid-Pretenders ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:25:04 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Slowcoaches - Peter Gabriel (SJC) Rob Jordan wrote: >>Why is it that certain artists feel they need 5 years or more to >>write and record 8 or 10 songs? Because they do. Not to be glib or anything, but some need more time, sometimes. I agree that some more prolific artists are just as capable of doing good work. Look at how often the Beatles were releasing masterpieces (more often than one a year). But some artists just need more time, and if they do, they do. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:29:24 -0300 From: "wallykai" Subject: RE: Good Friends Video Yes, I saw this one. There's some animation of a scorpion and a crab chasing each other [I wonder if Klein is a Cancer]. Joni looks kind of chubby on the video and she can't stop eating this piece of sponge cake with scads of whipped cream on top. The clip is really funny. Joni goes: "Good friends you and me" and she waves her spoon at the camera. WallyK - -----OrigiIal Message----- De: Evian Para: joni@smoe.org Fecha: viernes 9 de octubre de 1998 0:23 Asunto: Good Friends Video >Hey, am I totally mistaken, or is there really a video for "Good >Friends?" Evian > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:35:38 -0300 From: "wallykai" Subject: A bargain already?!?!?!? TTT is already in the discount area at Tower in Buenos Aires at $17.00. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:59:52 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: American currency (NJC) In a message dated 10/9/98 2:24:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, evian@sk.sympatico.ca writes: << One of the things I found difficult on my US was that the notes all looked > the same-same colour and size. Here each note is a different colouir and > size-saves mistakes being made!!! > Colin, I too have a hard time with American money. With Canadian money, at least every bill is a different colour. With American money, I get nervous thinking that I am going to accidentally tip with a $50 or something. Evian >> Different colored bills aren't much help to those of us, such as I, who are color-blind or color-deficient. Guess they don't care about whether I accidentally tip with a $50. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:40:53 EDT From: Dmascall@aol.com Subject: Tom Waits, Covers" NJC RMuRocks@aol.com wrote (at some length) about "Tom Waits, Covers" Funnily enough, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Many of the best covers are the most unexpected - perhaps this is the word that should be substituted for "inappropriate". I just thought a little fun might be had with the idea. Any road, must be off now. regards - and hoping for all debate resolutely ON LIST David Mascall ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:40:55 EDT From: Dmascall@aol.com Subject: Another TTT review (no yawning back there-this is short) - JC Tonight I was directed towards the kitchen where a BBC Radio 4 arts programme was discussing TTT with assistance from Matt Snow of Mojo Magazine. The short version was that the album was as fine as anything that Joni has produced in the last 20 years -and like all her work demands repeated listening, not a quick judgement.There were the usual comments about jazzy styles, and lack of widespread acceptance. The overall tone was - it's here and we're lucky to have it - so let's appreciate it. He reckons Joni sells 250,000 copies per album nowadays (worldwide, I think). I guess that makes the JMDL very much the tip of an iceberg at one member per 500 album buyers. Who are the 499 others per member? David Mascall ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:40:52 EDT From: Dmascall@aol.com Subject: Inappropriate - or maybe just fun (NJC) John M. Lind" wrote >Nope, sorry, gotta disagree with this one. I love Tom Waits and would >relish hearing him sing any Joni song, preferably in duet form with Joan >herself(this idea popped up on list a while back, anybody remember when?). I love Tom Waits too - it was the combination of the "Boho" idea and TW that tickled me - unless I misinterpret the song. Nothing particularly serious meant , anyway - I was just hoping for a bit of fun. After all, TW would have to sing "The streets were never really mine/not mine these ballroom gowns" in that great bass drawl. However, do have to remind myself that I'm prone to singing along to songs like "Don't Interrupt the sorrow " in a Joni-inflected baritone. I don't have a copy of it but fondly remember Tom Waits' duets with Crystal Gayle for the soundtrack of "One from the Heart" ..... and wasn't there one with Bette Midler (a West Side Story song)? Happy honeymoon. David Mascall ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:40:49 EDT From: Dmascall@aol.com Subject: Inappropriate - or maybe just fun (NJC) John M. Lind" wrote >Nope, sorry, gotta disagree with this one. I love Tom Waits and would >relish hearing him sing any Joni song, preferably in duet form with Joan >herself(this idea popped up on list a while back, anybody remember when?). I love Tom Waits too - it was the combination of the "Boho" idea and TW that tickled me - unless I misinterpret the song. Nothing particularly serious meant , anyway - I was just hoping for a bit of fun. After all, TW would have to sing "The streets were never really mine/not mine these ballroom gowns" in that great bass drawl. However, do have to remind myself that I'm prone to singing along to songs like "Don't Interrupt the sorrow " in a Joni-inflected baritone. I don't have a copy of it but fondly remember Tom Waits' duets with Crystal Gayle for the soundtrack of "One from the Heart" ..... and wasn't there one with Bette Midler (a West Side Story song)? Happy honeymoon. David Mascall ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 01:45:20 -0700 From: Skin Deep Subject: Joni Cover Is there a Stormy Weather out there? My my.... How do you think She'd do on Love For Sale Waltzenfree np Inner City Blues (Make Me Wanna Holler) Marvin Gaye ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:41:37 +0100 (BST) From: Howard Wright Subject: TTT - recording quality, popping sounds etc Rob wrote: >For me, one of the strong points of TTT, especially Love Puts On a New >Face, Facelift and Stay In Touch, is the feeling of intimacy. I don't know >the technicalities, but I feel as if Joni is singing more quietly and >closer to the mic than usual. Could this be consistent with the "popping >plosives"? I agree with the "intimacy" feeling on TTT. On facelift in particular it sounds as if Joni is singing right in front of you. In the short break between the end of the first chorus and the start of the 2nd verse I swear I can almost touch her - she's not singing, but I get this very strong feeling that she's sitting right in front of me, like she's just waiting to come back with "I mean after all she introduced us". This is a major plus point for me - very clear, natural sounding vocals. I didn't notice any particularly ugly popping sounds on the vocals, but I'll have another listen ... If they are there, it seems pretty surprising. Joni has been recording for 30 years, and avoiding popping ps and bs is pretty basic vocal recording technique. I thought all you needed was a "pop shield" and a vocalist who is aware of the problem and can compensate for it? Surely any major popping noises would have been spotted almost straight away in the studio? Unless Joni decided that she lost some of that natural, intimate sound of the voice when she tried to lose the pops. I need to listen back to the album to be sure about all of this! Kakki wrote: >Hey Jim, > >Good cover-up re Julie! She almost gave us away yesterday with her post. >What would the rest of them think if they found out that the 50 or so of >us regular posters were actually professional actors hired as shills for >Reprise?? > >BTW - who is in charge of deciding the NJC content threads for next week? >I told the boss I need a little time off and would like to "lurk" for >awhile but you know how it is working for The Man. I just *knew* it!!! Damn those hired NJC scribes ... ;-) Howard W. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 03:06:26 -0700 From: Skin Deep Subject: BarBearUh Trashing Well it looks like the only ones barbara left out was NJC Chili / David Trashes everyone and leaves town. You gotta love it. Waltzenfree, nice kitty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:33:45 EDT From: MP123A321@aol.com Subject: NJC- Crosby/Nash In a recent post by Mark: <> I believe that Graham Nash will be on Rock n' Roll Jeopardy this weekend. Along with Joe Walsh. What a great trivia show for old timers and trivia buffs. On VH-1, I think. back to lurkdom Maurice ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:40:31 EDT From: MP123A321@aol.com Subject: Good Friends video Yes there is a video and it does have some animation, it looks alot like the work of whomever did "And She Was" video by Talking Heads. <> Maurice ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 12:43:52 +0200 From: Robbert Subject: Peter Gabriel (NJC) Thanx to everybody who shared their opinion about Gabriel being the "slowpoke" that he is. I think the main reason why Gabriel takes so long is that he isn't a musician who collects his band around him, tells them what to play, put it on tape and release it, like Sting for example does (he really does!). Peter is a man of "layers"; he records several bits and pieces, and then starts putting them together to see if they "work". If not, he'll start all over. His approach is not so much that of a musician, but more of a technician, if you will. I visited the RealWorld Studios on May of 1997. I spoke to a representative and she told me that much of the music had been written and recorded, but not a single lyric was put down on paper!! At that time, he had been involved in making this new album for 2 years, although not continuously (sp?). I have also read several times that he has thrown away much of the music that was recorded in 1995 and 1996 for this album. Also, Peter always records various versions of a song, to then in the end decide that a) he'll go for a certain version, or, more likely, b) he'll start all over again. As he once said himself, on a scale of insanity of "getting it right", there's "normal", then "crazy", then "are you nuts!?!", then nothing for a long time, and then "Gabriel". I think that says it all. Paul asked would you rather have him release crap every year. Obviously the answer to that would be no. When US was released, I was in heaven for months. I listened to it over and over again and it revealed more and more of its beauty every time I heard it. Which is more important than having a new record every year. I'm not sure if I would love it as much if he would release more often. Maybe I would, and maybe not. I think it also depends on who it is. With Gabriel, you know that he is the pefectionist that he is. I wonder what his record company thinks about this. Gabriel hit it big in 1986 with So, but lost many fans (if you can call them real fans, that is) with US, and I think part of that is because he took too long to release it. He filled up Earl's Court in London 6 times in 1987 (and that's a HUGE place) and barely succeeded in getting it filled twice in 1993 (both excellent shows, by the way, featuring Sinead). I respect Peter very much for his dedication to his much, it's just that he drives me crazy from time to time. Which is ok, because I know that in the end it will have been worth the wait. On a final note, Peter will make his first live performance since August 1994 in Paris on December 10th, together with Alanis Morissette, Radiohead, Tracy Chapman and Youssou N'Dour. Can't wait!!!! Best, Robbert, now off to buy Bruce Hornsby's new DOUBLE cd filled with some really excellent songs! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:45:52 EDT From: MWalshkoba@aol.com Subject: Year of theTiger De-lurking here, having moved back to Boston after 25 years in Japan and dealing with major reverse culture shock. Coincidence, I'm sure, but since this is the Year of the Tiger in the 12 year cycle on the Chinese calendar. Perhaps there was some celestial synchronicity at work in all the delays concerning the release of TTT. Songs I'd like to hear Joni cover, "I''ve Got It Bad" and "Lush Life". Mary Walsh-Kobayashi ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:21:47 -0400 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: (NJC) BarBearUh Trashing Skin Deep wrote re Barbara: <<>> For Goddess' sake, Barbara is one of the most long-time and respected members of this list. Maybe you're not familiar with her because she hasn't had time to post as much during your tenure on the list, but a little benefit of the doubt wouldn't hurt anyone. And sharing a well-argued, backed-up opinion certainly doesn't qualify as trashing in my book. - --Michael, who is not as bothered by the negative posts lately as by all the hand-wringing about the negative posts NP: NPR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:49:23 +0100 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Joni Mitchell Interview On A.O.L. Joni Mitchell Shows Her Stripes By STEVE MORSE .c 1998, The Boston Globe BPI (Oct. 7) - Joni Mitchell's new album, ''Taming the Tiger,'' has a frank confession in the title track. ''I'm a runaway from the music biz,'' she sings, and then goes on to criticize ''formula music'' on the radio, labeling it ''junk food for juveniles.'' Don't expect to hear the song on any Top 40 stations soon. ''I've had to run away in order to keep the poet alive,'' says Mitchell in an interview from Los Angeles. The new album is her first since 1994's ''Turbulent Indigo,'' which won two Grammy awards. The reclusive Mitchell, whose painterly folk-jazz and hippie background have influenced contemporary acts from Jewel to Fiona Apple, swung back into view recently with a West Coast tour with Bob Dylan and Van Morrison; and with a well-received appearance at the ''Day in the Garden'' concert at the original Woodstock site in New York. She also has a two-hour pay-per-view concert, ''Taming the Tiger: An Evening with Joni Mitchell,'' airing Nov. 6. (It was taped at the Warner Bros. studio in Burbank, Calif., in May.) Mitchell, 54, also just released a book of poetry and is contracted for two more books. She has been buoyed by a recent reunion with her daughter Kilauren (whom she gave up for adoption years ago), though this personal joy has been tempered by Mitchell's continued frustration with the music business, which caused her to consider retirement in recent years. ''I've got a painter's eye for innovation in a business that thrives on second- and third-generation copycats,'' Mitchell says. ''I've got the wrong mentality for the game. I don't play the game well. I'm not a politician, which more and more has become a required quality in my business. ''Also, I dislike being pigeonholed. I make unorthodox music, so that creates marketing difficulties for me. And there are prejudices levied at me because of my interest in jazz.'' ''Taming the Tiger'' probably won't solve those marketing dificulties, but it's one of her best, most accessible albums since her '70s peak with the influential discs ''Blue'' and ''Court and Spark,'' which yielded the hits ''Help Me'' and ''Free Man in Paris.'' She takes some political shots in the song ''No Apologies'' (''Lawyers and loan sharks are laying America to waste''). She applies her poetic eye to the meditative ''Harlem in Havana,'' about a carnival midway populated with eccentric characters. She turns soothing in ''Stay in Touch'' (''Let light hearts remake us ... let the worries hush''), but turns feisty in the uptempo ''Lead Balloon.'' It's about nervously spilling a drink on a boyfriend she's trying to impress, noting in detail ''the tequila trickling down his business suit.'' Other standouts are the wisdom-filled ''Facelift'' ('''Happiness is the best facelift,'' she sings) and the upbeat ''My Best to You,'' a blessing to her audience. ''My true fans are open to me,'' says Mitchell. ''And I got into this business to be an artist, not a pawn of business. So I have to fight for the right to inspiration.'' While it would seem natural that Mitchell would do more touring to back the new record (she hasn't toured the East Coast in 15 years), she's feeling inspired to make an album of '40s and '50s standards instead. ''What I'd really like to do is not tour this album, but go immediately into the studio while I'm fired up and do an album with a big orchestra. That would be a thrill of a lifetime,'' says the Canadian native. ''My roots as a singer lie in standards, really. I know the words to many of them - and I know all the melodies.'' Toward this end, she just sang on two George Gershwin songs for Herbie Hancock's new album, ''Gershwin's World.'' She joined Hancock, Stevie Wonder, and saxophonist Wayne Shorter (who also plays beautifully on her album) for ''loose, late-night sessions. We did 'Summertime' and 'The Man I Love.' I loved it.'' Mitchell's jazz affinities have taken her a long way from her hippie folk- singing days. She almost laughs at that era now. ''I came into folk music as an arts student to make some pin money, because it was so easy,'' she says. ''So I entered the arena as a folk musician and all these years later, I still get called a folk musician, but that's not where my roots are. In less than six months, I was a professional folk singer. That's how easy it is to cop those chops.'' Mitchell later dove headfirst into jazz, during the making of ''Hejira'' (1976) and ''Mingus'' (1979), in which she set lyrics to Charlie Mingus's melodies. But the reception to ''Mingus'' also helped her sour on the music biz. ''At the time I did my 'Mingus' project, I lost my airplay. And for 25 years, I've been dismissed as too jazzy,'' she says. ''It's kind of like being blacklisted for a long time. ''The white press has had a problem with my jazz influences - and it's always been levied against me. Generally, they're hostile and frightened. I don't know why. Whatever it is, I can't expect to be understood or reviewed sensibly in the bulk of the pop camp. ... I'm tired of being flunked by Rolling Stone magazine. I hear they're going to flunk me again on this new album. I can take it, but it's just stupid at this point.'' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 08:54:00 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Re: BarBearUh Trashing: NOT At 03:06 AM 10/9/98 -0700, you wrote: >Well it looks like the only ones barbara left out >was NJC Chili / David >Trashes everyone and leaves town. >You gotta love it. > > Waltzenfree, nice kitty I spoke to soon, what the heck are you talking about, SkindeepWaltenfree? When was the "People-shouldn't-post-and-leave-town" rule implamentd? Barbara's always struck me as one of the most insightful posters on this list. -JulieZW ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 09:06:00 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Re: Question about Joni's Bday card I don't really have a problem with a spouse but friends and relatives are out and I'll give you my reasoning. This card is supposed to be from the internet community if your friends are not part of the internet community they simply don't belong on the card. Sorry, I've got to draw the borderline somewhere. ;~) Bounced Message wrote: > From: davina@pacificsw.com (Davina Greenstein) > Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:15:29 -0700 > > Can we include our spouse or good friend's name as well on Joni's card > if they are not an official JMDL member? I have friends and relatives > that keep up on Joni news via my affiliation with the list, due to the > fact that they don't have computers and would love to wish Joni a happy > birthday. What do you guys think? > > Davina > > np: Joni and Morrissey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:14:13 EDT From: BH1248@aol.com Subject: Yet another published review of TTT From today's local paper, the Critic's pick of the week is TTT. Contributing music critic Walter Tunis writes as follows. (I wonder if the word "bitch" was omitted by editors in the Lead Balloon quote!) "In case the world needed more testament to Joni Mitchell's genius as a writer and song stylist, it has it in Taming the Tiger--a milestone. Most of the songs are dominated by solo guitar/keyboard arrangements with saxophone champion Wayne Shorter, a noted Mitchell collaborator in the past, serving as the only principal soloist. The tone of the material is largely romantic and reflective. But the love stories are far from happy at times, as in a remorseful lament called Man From Mars and the edgy account of insecure relations, Love Puts on a New Face. Mitchell's great strength as a chronicler of human emotions is addressing that which is both everyday and subtle. Face Lift, for example, tells of a mother's scorn and shame over her daughter's new romance. To give the story all the more poignancy and color, she sets it at Christmas. Mitchell's reply to this generational upheaval is a simple and stately "bless us." There are, of course, more biting affairs of the heart, as in the pop-concious Lead Balloon ("an angry man is an angry man, but an angry woman..."). But Mitchell also takes on the big picture in No Apologies as she confronts the American military for brushing off the rape of a Japanese girl by servicemen in Okinawa. In the title tune she takes on the music industry, a particularly curious stab, given Mitchell's 1996 Grammy win for Turbulent Indigo. But perhaps getting cozy with business is all part of the plan. "the time to watch the beast the best," Mitchell sings, "is when it's purring at your side." So, no, Mitchell doesn't so much tame the tiger here as keep it on a firm leash with an album that is cool and compelling. It's a vital reaffirmation of her strength." by Walter Tunis, Contributing music critic, Lexington Herald-Leader Kingpin NP: Sundays, "Blind" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 06:24:58 -0700 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: Inappropriate - or maybe just fun (NJC) Dmascall@aol.com wrote: ..... and wasn't there one > with Bette Midler (a West Side Story song)? It wasn't from 'West Side Story'. It was called 'I Never Talk to Strangers'. Bette also recorded 'Shiver Me Timbers'. She does a wonderful live version of that one on 'Live at Last'. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 08:06:56 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Homespun Grassroots vs. Eclectic Electric Mark-n-Travis writes ... >To me Joni has *never* gone off on a tangent. Her body of work is a >progression. If you listen to it in sequence from STAS to TTT, every >album builds on what came before it. Every step she has taken is >logical. She merely takes everything she has learned up to a given >point in time & takes it a step further with each new record. Hmmm ... interesting point -- I don't dispute that a chronological listening of Joni's catalog does not produce a perception of progression. But I'm left wondering a bit, given my peculiar bent towards cognitive linguistic psychology, if this pattern isn't something listener-imposed. Not that I don't see a pattern, I do, but the pattern I see is one of shifting directions that maintain a certain core of compositional elements -- rather than a logically imposed building. But as with most things, I think of Joni's work as an Rorshach inkblot that "looks different" to different people, depending on what they bring in with them when they see it. And a bit of semantic wrangling if I may -- I didn't mean "tangent" as in "going off on one." I actually meant to be a bit more exact -- and say that Joni's 'shifts in direction', 'changes in gradient' (if you will) are for me her most consistent feature. In fact, my own perceptual framework makes a space for the much-maligned "Mingus", which I don't see as any more radical a shift than say, between WTRF and DED ... BTW, thanks for your consideration -- I'm far from offended -- and earnestly hope that I've avoided any offense of my own. Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:28:51 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: jmdler love affair (NJC) Julie wrote: > Kakki-luv, rumor has it that "NJC" themes are being put on the back >burner, so it looks like it's 'lurkdomville' afterall. Here's the scoop on >the poop: it seems that a jmdler love affair has been written into the >script, but Kilauren is in the process of deciding who that token boy-toy >will be... Yeah, they're still deciding if I should get a "divorce" from the fictional Michele. Of course, to make it halfway realistic, they're going to change the photo of the fat geek that they have as me in The Gallery. BTW, have any of you also had problems with the Reprise checks bouncing lately? Like, I'm really buying the "overextended Mitchell promo budget" line. Yeah, right! I'm glad "Les" set up this private address so that we could chat without the rest of the list catching on! Your pal, ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:30:21 -0500 From: Jeff Klepper Subject: Tape trees 1 - 5 Would someone out there with Tape Trees 1-5 and a DAT (or MD) recorder be willing to copy them for us? (I have a lot of wonderful rare audio and video to offer in trade.) Thanks, Jeff Klepper ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:41:26 -0500 From: "Neil E. Orts" Subject: Joni in the Austin Chronicle I thought you would all like to see this interview in this weeks Austin Chronicle. It's online at: http://www.auschron.com/current/music.jmitchell.html Enjoy. - -Neil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Neil E. Orts * . . . books are my passion, not only writing Sr. Administrative Assoc. * them and every once in a while even reading Office of Graduate Studies * them but just having them and moving them University of Texas Austin * around and feeling the comfort of their Main 101 -- 512/232-3625 * serene presence. neo@mail.utexas.edu * fax: 512/475-8851 * -Frederick Buechner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:59:09 -0500 From: "Neil E. Orts" Subject: BarBearUh's comments I pretty much agree with most of Barbara's comments, with the exception of Joni's 70s work being the tops. I still say Night Ride Home is as good as Joni gets (despite the unfortunate "Windfall"). Part of my irriation at some of Joni's comments do come from her . . . okay, I can understand that if one is attacked in public forums (and she has been in various places, no argument) that one can build up some bitterness. But you know what? THere are many many talented musicians who have day jobs and can't even think of living in a house like Joni lives in, much less get the positive attention she gets. She complains about lack of attention and then calls awards meaningless. She's just cranky. Obviously, I love Joni's work and I do think she is one of the more talented folks out there. I just think she needs to spend a few years in a boring, mindless day job. So she doesn't sell records like Janet Jackson (or whoever is hot this year). She's made a living doing something she apparently likes doing. Of course, given some of the recent interviews, I'm not convinced she even likes making music all that much . . . - -Neil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Neil E. Orts * . . . books are my passion, not only writing Sr. Administrative Assoc. * them and every once in a while even reading Office of Graduate Studies * them but just having them and moving them University of Texas Austin * around and feeling the comfort of their Main 101 -- 512/232-3625 * serene presence. neo@mail.utexas.edu * fax: 512/475-8851 * -Frederick Buechner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:07:47 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: about that photo in NY Times Once again, sorry if this has been discussed to death. I have not really been in tune with the list for about a month. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:21:58 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: about that photo in NY Times (RR) Oooops... sorry for the premature send. As i was saying... Once again, sorry if this has been discussed to death. I have not really been in tune with the list for about a month. I wanted to keep getting the new joni CD a personal experience, so I wasn't reading much on the list. But, about that photo. It is one of the worst photos I have ever seen in a fairly major publication. I'm not a regular reader of the NY Times magazine, so I am not familiar with their standards, but judging solo on that photo, they must not be very high. I'm not talking about wrinkles. I couldn't care about wrinkles. Joni is in her mid fifties, smokes, and being a blonde, I expect wrinkles. But please, that was one of the most poorly lit photos I've seen. It sucked big time. What did they use, a flood light to light the side of her face? All detail is blasted from the right side of her face. And that boring backdrop... and it isn't even cropped in an interesting way... Blah, i say. What were they thinking? What were their intentions? I do know Spin magazine did a photo shoot for an article on Lucinda Williams in July. It was a "concept" shoot, but the concept turned out to be, 'let's make her look like a freak.' They did. I wrote to them and bitched about those horrible photos as well. An inside source tells me she was "pissed." I can't imagine Joni being happy with that NY Times photo. Artistically, it is an insult. Sherrie NP: Lyle Lovett, Step Inside This House Seeing in concert tonight: Lucinda! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 19:29:31 -0700 From: jussi Subject: Re: Good Friends Video Evian wrote: > Hey, am I totally mistaken, or is there really a video for "Good > Friends?" I seem to remember seeing a video for "Good Friends" all the > time on MuchMusic, and of course, since I wasn't into Joni at the time, > I ignored it. Wasn't the video animated or something? Please tell me > if I am correct about there being a video for the song. You're right, there is a video. Unlike "Shiny Toys", it's a 'real' video. I've always thought it's similar to Michael Jackson's "Leave Me Alone" or Tears For Fears' "Sowing The Seeds Of Love". Lots of animation and drawn objects. Quite exciting visually. I actually have a promo tape of it. It even has all the end credits on it. If the video people would like to have it for a video tree, you should contact me. I guess it needs converting because the tape is in PAL format VHS, not NTSC. - --jussi ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 11:25:03 -0700 From: Scott & Jen & Anna Spring <3bunas@accessatlanta.com> Subject: TTT review Greetings from Atlanta... Here's the review from the Atlanta Journal Constitution from Oct. 8. Entitled "Balm from a musical touchstone" by Steve Dollar Now that she's won a Grammy Award and been reunited with her long-lost daughter, Joni Mitchell has become more of a public figure than she has been since the late 1970's, when her albums began tilting toward the increasingly esoteric - or were merely overlooked. Her vast influence holds sway over a nation of Lilith Fair devotees, but reaches so far beyond category that the songwriter is a virtual touchstone, a link between artists as diverse as funkateer Prince and jazz trumpeter Dave Douglas. "Taming the Tiger" doesn't stretch toward any classic stature, but the casual warmth of its songs, the breezy, if sometimes a little busy, arrangements and Mitchell's mature, funny observations on human nature mark it as thoughtful, conversational balm. Tunes such as "Love Puts on a New Face" and "Stay in Touch" are direct, emotional, but realistic sketches of psyche and eros in action, buoyed by one of the singer's typically masterful studio bands (saxaphonist Wayne Shorter, drummer Brian Blade). As she sings on the title track, the album is also her response to a music business that scarcely has a place for artists like her anymore. "Every song just a one-night stand," she laments, flipping along the radio dial. "Formula music, girlie guile!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:36:25 -0400 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: yet another JM interview in rolling stone I just got my new Rolling Stone mag this morning. There's a Joni interview. It seems sympathetic to her plight with the music industry! "I'd rather not compromise. I'm in it for the musical adventure." Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:39:12 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: Re: BarBearUh Trashing god, I'm glad I haven't been paying much attention to the list lately... but Skin Deeps comments about BarBearUh really set me off. I love her posts, and I think she is brilliant in many, many ways. I have missed her posts to the list, but I understand she has been too busy to be involved during the past several months. Please don't say things about her, or anyone, that could hurt their feelings and make them not want to post. Unlike MOST folks posts to this list, I find BarBearUhs well thought out, relevant, interesting, though I don't always agree with her (or anyone else on the planet). "If you don't have something nice to say, or if you don't really know what you're talking about, refrain from tongue, pen, and keyboard." - S Good ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:47:17 EDT From: SDWS10@aol.com Subject: EDITH first of all, can i say that Mark in SEA is seemingly the most level-headed and uncompromised person of Joni discussion i have ever had the pleasure to read.NEXT, does anyone hear Edith and the Kingpin woven throughout TTT???not so much the content as just the pleasure and flowing sound....steve decker ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:17:43 EDT From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Re: inapropriate covers I really love this game. How about: "Try Another" by Monica Lewinsky "Urge for Going" by Bill Clinton and.... "You could have been more" by Hillary Clinton. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:27:18 EDT From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on PPV - a plan I would love to attend one of these--you all seem so far away though. Also, whoever suggested MM doing BLUE, cracked me up. If you are going to rot in hell for that, you won't be alone. I thought it was hysterical. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:46:24 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Inappropriate - or maybe just fun (NJC) In a message dated 10/9/98 9:26:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Mark-n- Travis@worldnet.att.net writes: << Dmascall@aol.com wrote: ..... and wasn't there one > with Bette Midler (a West Side Story song)? It wasn't from 'West Side Story'. It was called 'I Never Talk to Strangers'. Bette also recorded 'Shiver Me Timbers'. She does a wonderful live version of that one on 'Live at Last'. Mark in Seattle >> Although not with Bette, Tom Waits did record "Somewhere" from West Side Story. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:30:18 EDT From: MHart16164@aol.com Subject: More joni stuff In response to Bob--I agree that with you in that the songs are wonderful period. What makes it inappropriate for just ANYONE to perform a Joni song is that they are personal extensions of her mind. They are not pop culture, they are not top 40, they require a little more cerebral activity than most (you've got to listen to them more than once). Deciding what other entertainers can be included in the catagory JM has niched for herself is a tough one--no matter how you look at it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:53:39 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: jmdler love affair (NJC) >Yeah, they're still deciding if I should get a "divorce" from the >fictional Michele. Of course, to make it halfway realistic, they're >going to change the photo of the fat geek that they have as me in The >Gallery. I hear Paul Starr is going to do your make-up for the new photo shots. He is really a genius - can make Joni look 30 for the MOJO spread and then can make her look 60 for the more serious intelligensia readership of the New York Times! > BTW, have any of you also had problems with the Reprise checks >bouncing lately? Like, I'm really buying the "overextended Mitchell >promo budget" line. Yeah, right! They told you THAT? The inside scoop I got is that Geffen has secretly bought out Warner/Reprise and has immediately put a freeze on all promo for J, including our puny salaries! Some of our group are already checking out job openings over on the Shawn list. Apparently, they want to bring in some new blood to "punch" things up a bit. >I'm glad "Les" set up this private address so that we could chat >without the rest of the list catching on! Yeah, what would we have done without this therapeutic outlet?! Later, "Kakki" Diseezajoke ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:15:59 +0100 From: "Philipf" Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT PROTECTION/POOH - NJC - -----Original Message---- Rob Jordan wrote: >Whaa! Don't get me started about what Disney did to Winnie the Pooh! One of the many great things about having a child has been discovering Winnie the Pooh. When I was a kid, Winnie must have been on one of his periodic retirements, kinda like Joni does. I saw a notice in the the paper last year saying that Christopher Robin (Milne's son) had just died. Philip NP Jimmy Webb - Land's End ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 14:29:16 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Joni covers From: "Wong, Kai" Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:33:21 -0400 Some standards I would love to hear joni cover: 1. Strange Fruit 2. Lili Marlene 3. What A Little Moonlight Can Do 4. Where Have All The Flowers Gone 5. Son Of A Preacher Man 6. Both Sides Now (this is definitely a standard so it will be safe for joni to cover) Kai - ------------------------------------------------------------------ I'd love to hear Joni sing, "Cry Me A River..." Sigh... Leslie Steve Mixon http://www.cruzio.com/~stevem ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 14:28:05 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: I'm doing a show!!! NJC From: Hassan Zubairi Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:52:45 +-100 Coyotes This is really NJC but I auditioned for the Christmas show at Stratford East in London yesterday morning. At lunch they called my agents and told me I had the job. I guess it means I can afford Christmas presents this year... The rehearsals for The Immigrant Song are going well. I won't be able to post at all after the 9th of November (I promise) so I'll probably unsub from then... Joni had better not tour the UK until after January!!! I will be so upset if this doesn't work out Joni-wise.... Much Joni JamieJake. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 14:28:51 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: RE: BarBearUh's comments From: "Happy The Man" Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:09:51 -0500 I personally think she should take some of the advice that was given to her earlier. from Mom (though in different content): "Snap out of it!" from Donald: "Why can't you be happy?" You make me feel he.lpless when you get this way" or that she even came up with herself: "During times like these the wise are influential, they can bear the imperfections, they can keep the harmony" and "We should just surrender, Let fate and duty shape us, let light hearts remake us, Let the worries (or anger) hush" because "Remember this, each new day is a kiss, sent from up above, With an angel's love. and "Happiness is the best facelift" My best to all of you, Craig ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:45:59 -0400 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: jmdler love affair (NJC) Kakki wrote: <<>> Maybe they'll downsize that faggot casting director who decided that over half the male characters should be queers. Like *that's* believable. It's bad enough that I have to spell my old lady's name "Sean" all the time; did I really have to go through that disgusting anal sex NJC thread a few months back, too? (Though the background research *was* more interesting than I expected it to be.) Freeze my wages?! I deserve a raise you pansy mother-f**kers! And unless props gets my damn stereo back to me there will be no more NP tags, on my mother's grave!! Cue the sun... ;-) - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:58:41 -0400 From: "Brian J. Moon" <75211.1225@compuserve.com> Subject: Joni at #4 in Local Top Ten Yesterday's Night & Day section of the San Diego Union-Tribune listed TTT at #4 in the Top Ten Local Albums (the source listed is Lou's Records, Encinitas). I don't know what this means, Lou's is the local barometer for record sales? I've never heard of the store myself. But it looks like their customer base is pretty darn savvy, eh? Also, is anyone collecting things like the Good Morning America appearance and the other radio interview coming up for a tape tree, or could I get copies from someone? Lindsay Moon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 14:11:45 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Joni Sings the Blues Having heard so much from Joni about her interest in kicking back on a standards collection, I just thought I'd put in my suggestions ... and take this oppoutunity to wish the jmdl a great weekend. 1. I Got It Bad and That Ain't Good 2. Someone to Watch Over Me 3. I'll Be Around 4. As Time Goes By 5. Stormy Weather 6. Misty 7. Not While I'm Around (okay so it's from Sweeny Todd, but Joni would tear it UP) 8. Smoke Gets In Your Eyes 9. (Get Your Kicks On ...)Route 66 10. Witchcraft ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 17:27:03 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Birthday Card It looks like I've over stepped my bounds. I should not have asked for everybody to send their NAMES as only cities and states and countries are to be included in the card. I'm sorry. For every one who has already sent there names, they will not be included on the card only the C/S/C/ will. From now on you only need to send in your place of residence. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:27:09 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Liz Phair on Rosie (NJC) Hey everyone- I don't want to stir up another Liz Phair thread, but Liz is going to be on Rosie O'Donnell this afternoon. It should be interesting! NP-Love Has Many Faces ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | | | "Every disc a poker chip, every | | song just a one-night stand." | | -Joni Mitchell | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:03:30 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: a fond farewell dear listers: like brian chilihead last week, i too have been the recipient of some truly scary email from one of our more disturbed list members. unlike brian, i am not going to start a controversy by naming names, but wanted to take a second and say so long to those of you i have been lucky enough to get to know over the past 9 or 10 months. i have learned alot from this list, and i am not talking about stuff regarding joni mitchell, altho god knows that is certainly true. i have learned alot about all sorts of things! most relevant, at the moment, is i've learned about the importance of being careful in how one communicates when using email. as has been discussed by members alot smarter than i, it takes skill and know-how to communicate without the usual cues we associate with this process. tones of voice, facial expressions, gestures...words typed on a screen can take a tone the sender never intended, and god knows i have blown it more than once by being careless in how i phrased a thought and have hurt more than one person's feelings in my carelessness. i am sorry for that, but having conversations via a typewriter is, it seems, an acquired skill. it takes some getting used to. so, with that in mind, "if i have been unkind, i hope you can just let it go by..." but when i start getting threatening, disturbed emails that mention my children of all things, then it is time to say goodbye. i had intended to send personal emails to many of you whose friendship has been important to me...kakki, marian, heather, ashara, michael paz and yarborough, patrick leader, kenny, maggie...there are more but i can't think of them right now. not because they are not important, but because i am upset and a bit exhausted by this lurid and ugly post i just received. again, i wish you all well. you are (with a couple of notable exceptions) a classy, smart bunch of folks and i will miss you. peace, ric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 98 15:21:22 -0700 From: Wally Breese Subject: TTT Hi everyone, Joni's new album, Taming The Tiger, premieres on the national Billboard charts this week at #75, three places ahead of the new Elvis Costello/Burt Bacharach album; at the online store, Music Boulevard, Joni comes in at #20 this week; and at Tower Records in the Castro district of San Francisco, TTT lands at #1 in it's opening week. This is quite a varied response, but Joni has always been a bigger seller in metropolitan areas then in the boondocks. First week sales through SoundScan were 20,837, not much different from the first week sales of Joni's last album of original material, Turbulent Indigo, in November 1994. Later, Wally Breese The Joni Mitchell Homepage http://www.JoniMitchell.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:26:30 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: a fond farewell Ric- Even though I wrote a pretty gushy post to you privately, I still want to let the list know how I feel. You were very instrumental in reviving this list when it seemed/seems so incredibly boring. And there you were, taking your space on the soapbox! Speaking your mind and giving me a laugh! I will miss you more than anyone else I've met on this list. I hope you stay the fantastic and intelligent man I got to know privately. Very best of wishes! I love you, Mark ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | | | "Every disc a poker chip, every | | song just a one-night stand." | | -Joni Mitchell | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 23:41:38 +0100 From: catman Subject: How sad How sad it is that a very tiny minority of people on this very large list are making it difficult for others to be. Some people I think are rude without the intention-one person I used to get riled at I don't cos their style has never changed so i figured that is just them and what is the point of getting riled anyhow. Private abusive mail is another matter. No one deserves that but it best to bear in mind that when one writes such things, others are likely to respond in kind. Although most is not sent for that reason. However out of 500 listers there bound to be a handful of really disturbed ones(apart from me!) and nothing much can be done EXCEPT from what I understand, and what happened with a friend, their ISP can be informed and the offender can be thrown off. Send the email and the headers to their ISP address and they will deal with it. Despite some horrid mail, I remain and will till I decide otherwise. Okay so I don't post so much(I heard that cellective yippe) but mainly cos I am wary to do so-it isn't the safe place it once was. Leaving does give the nasties a boost tho-they have their little victory. How sad they must be. As I have said before, nasty, abusive posts say everything about the SENDER and nothing about the recipient. - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #408 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?