From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #406 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, October 8 1998 Volume 03 : Number 406 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Nashville@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com Orlando@jmdl.com -Tampa@jmdl.com Sunrise@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni in my Dream (SJC) [kbarnicle@ensr.com] Re: The New $20 Bill (Absolutely NJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Peter Gabriel (NJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joni in my Dream (SJC) [Ashara@aol.com] NJC -- Big ****NO**** to this "COPYRIGHT PROTECTION" endless exte nsion corporate greed B.S. ["Hollander, Frank"] technical TTT [Mary Grace Valentinsson ] Nic Jones NJC [Gertus@aol.com] Joni for Halloween ["Soho *" ] Re : Nick Hornby (HAJC) [Jason Maloney ] Dylan's Mingus? [FredNow@aol.com] Re: TTT Technical Comment [TerryM2442@aol.com] photo ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: Joni on PPV? [Diana Duncan ] Yanni (NJC) [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Joni in my Dream (SJC) [TerryM2442@aol.com] Hello out there in Joniland [Susan McNamara ] Peter Gabriel (now with 50% more Joni content!) [FredNow@aol.com] TTT/Fresh Air review [FredNow@aol.com] RE: vibrato (NJC) ["wallykai" ] Copyright Bill (VLJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: Self-portraits, TTT, Clouds and Tai Chi [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Joni on PPV? [Phyliss Ward ] Re: Self-portraits, TTT, Clouds and Tai Chi ["Don Rowe" ] lindsay edits joni... [RickieLee1@aol.com] Re: [Re: I Love Joni Mitchell! As a PERSON!] [RickieLee1@aol.com] Birthday Card ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Re: lindsay edits joni... [davina@pacificsw.com (Davina Greenstein)] Question about Joni's Bday card [Bounced Message ] Times Magazine Review of TTT [Anne Madden ] TTT review (JC) [heather ] Nice Kitty.... [Scott Price ] More Joni in the paper! [heather ] Hello fans ["Dougher, Lillian W." ] Joni in Vanity Fair [Robert Holliston ] Re: Re: Joni the oldies wurlitzer [FredNow@aol.com] Joni Covers [Leslie Mixon ] Re: Homespun Grassroots vs. Eclectic Electric [PMcfad@aol.com] Re: Twilight Zone (NJC) ["Julie Z. Webb" ] RE: TTT Technical Comment ["Dougher, Lillian W." ] Re: COPYRIGHT PROTECTION/POOH - NJC [Rob Jordan ] Re: Slowcoaches - Peter Gabriel (SJC) [Rob Jordan ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:47:14 EDT From: kbarnicle@ensr.com Subject: Joni in my Dream (SJC) Dr. Sigmondegreen, Please help! I dreamed last night that I was in Jamaica at one of those tin-roofed roadside stands where you can get Jerk Chicken (yum yum). The Jamaican guy in the shack cooking the chicken was singing "My Best to You" and I could hear all of the instruments (but couldn't see any musicians). All I could think was, WOW, Joni took a Jamaican Folk Song and turned it into one of hers. What does this mean? Do I need help? Katie from the Cape ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:51:06 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: The New $20 Bill (Absolutely NJC) In a message dated 10/8/98 11:28:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << One of the things I found difficult on my US was that the notes all looked the same-same colour and size. Here each note is a different colouir and size-saves mistakes being made!!! >> From the perspective of the other side (of the pond, I guess), Colin, I found it difficult at first to use both English and French money because the denominations are not prominent. Obviously, they rely on the differentiation in design and color to tell them apart, but if you are not accustomed to that or know which is which, it's harder to find the numbers. I find U.S. dollars easier to use, and I'm sure it's merely a nurtured skill, because the denominations are bigger and consistently placed. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:53:29 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Peter Gabriel (NJC) In a message dated 10/8/98 11:44:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Robbert@vansprang.demon.nl writes: << What is it with my favourite artists that they all have to take SO much time... >> Would you prefer that they pump out crap every 6 or 9 months merely to sell CDs and keep their name in the public eye? I think not. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:55:18 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in my Dream (SJC) In a message dated 10/8/98 1:49:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kbarnicle@ensr.com writes: << Dr. Sigmondegreen, Please help! I dreamed last night that I was in Jamaica at one of those tin-roofed roadside stands where you can get Jerk Chicken (yum yum). The Jamaican guy in the shack cooking the chicken was singing "My Best to You" and I could hear all of the instruments (but couldn't see any musicians). All I could think was, WOW, Joni took a Jamaican Folk Song and turned it into one of hers. What does this mean? Do I need help?>> Katie, Even though I am not Dr. Sigmondegreen, and would never try to upsurp her authority, while you are waiting for her reply, I will give you my authoritative opinion: You need a vacation, and you should spend a minimum of 2 weeks time, in JAMAICA!!! NOW!!!!!!!! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:58:19 -0700 From: "Hollander, Frank" Subject: NJC -- Big ****NO**** to this "COPYRIGHT PROTECTION" endless exte nsion corporate greed B.S. Details (sketchy as they are for those fighting The Man) at: http://www.public.asu.edu/~dkarjala/ Frank ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 11:07:32 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: technical TTT from Terry: >>>but I hear annoying enunciating sounds-little blows of air-when she sings words with "b" or "p". In a bold move for someone who is severely hearing impaired, I've picked up on that, too!! I've also been noticing the "t" sound, particularly in "CC" with the line "every Touch was Totally Tandem." Seems to me that I'm hearing a puff of air behind that or a bit wet. Me too! Me too! MG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:17:01 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Nic Jones NJC Here's a recommendation for anyone who remembers and liked Nic Jones, the English singer and superb guitarist who was prominent in the 70s folk scene. Nic suffered a very serious car crash in the early 80s and has not been able to record any work since. He was in hospital for 6 months and, during that time, his wife asked people to pass on any recordings of Nic to act as a stimulus to his memory. Many good recordings of his live performances were forthcoming and a selection are now available on a CD called "In Search of Nic Jones" - none of them have been released before and some of them are gems. The CD is available direct from Nic and Julia Jones at Mollie Music, 52 Newland Park Drive,York YO10 3HP. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 11:18:23 PDT From: "Soho *" Subject: Joni for Halloween Hi Joni-ites, I'm going to dress up as a young Joni (c. 1969) for Halloween. I've been told I have a similar profile so I figure with a long blond wig I'll do fine. Also intend to carry a guitar with tooled leather strap. Does anyone else have ideas on how I can make the outfit more authentic? Please email me privately. Thanks! soho3@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:39:27 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re : Nick Hornby (HAJC) Jan, Thanks for sending the article in......anyone who actually read my Bio during the recent thread will know NH is one of my favourite authors. I'd very strongly recommend High Fidelity to any "obsessive" musicphiles out there (our "What's in the M section" was terribly Hornby-esque).... Then again, the British-ness of the writing, cultural references and humour may not strike the same chord as it does in this middle-class sensitive guy from Maidenhead (the place NH grew up), with a passion for football and women.... :-) Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:51:02 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Dylan's Mingus? Remind you of anyone? =============================== Bob Dylan Bootleg Finally Released © The Associated Press By SCOTT BAUER ``Judas!'' a guy in the audience shouts. ``I don't believe you,'' Bob Dylan replies, dramatically drawing out the last word. ``You're a liar.'' The crowd snickers nervously, and Dylan and his band begin to play the opening notes of the next song. Spurred on by the heckle, someone on stage, perhaps even Dylan himself, urges the band to play loud, unleashing a scorching version of ``Like a Rolling Stone.'' The band is accustomed to being booed; this night is not the first time an audience has reacted angrily to getting something completely different from what it expected. But that concert in 1966 was a classic showdown. It caught Dylan at the zenith of his career, surprising an unsuspecting audience with his merger of poetic lyrics and electrified rock 'n' roll. The concert, never before officially released on vinyl or CD, will be in record stores Oct. 13. The show gained a treasured place in the homes of Dylan collectors when it became one of the first illegally bootlegged records in the early 1970s. The official release from Columbia/Legacy Recordings, titled ``Live 1966: The `Royal Albert Hall' Concert -- The Bootleg Series Vol. 4,'' contains every bit of music from that night. It also jokingly continues an error generated by bootleggers: The performance actually took place in Manchester, England, on May 17, 1966. Though recorded by Columbia, Dylan's record company, for possible release at the time, and prepared again for release in the early 1990s, the concert remained in the vaults. ``I don't know that Bob Dylan wanted it released all those years,'' says Mickey Jones, Dylan's drummer during the 1966 world tour. ``It might have been that it was such a personal thing for him and us, maybe he didn't want to give it to the world and maybe now he decides it's time for the world to hear it.'' Dylan has not spoken publicly about the concert and declined to be interviewed about the new release. The audience's hostility that night and during the entire tour motivated Dylan and the band, Jones says. ``When we got booed we cranked it up and put it right back in their face,'' says Jones, now a film actor. ``We knew what we were doing was good music.'' The concert was considered so important that one historian, C.P. Lee of the University of Salford in Manchester, actually wrote an entire book about it. Lee attended the show. Dylan hit the scene in the early 1960s as an acoustic guitar-playing folkie singing ``finger-pointing'' songs like ``Blowin' in the Wind'' and ``The Times They Are a-Changin'.'' When Dylan played electric music live for the first time, at the Newport Folk Festival in July 1965, he was booed by the audience who equated it with selling out to the mainstream. For Dylan, the move was a risk; he was largely abandoning the formula that had propelled him to fame. ``Within British Folk circles there was ardent talk of a `betrayal,' whatever that meant,'' Lee writes. Dylan ``no longer belonged to the small clique that inhabited Folk and to many of the Folk world's denizens, that was unforgivable.'' The audience's audible anger, heard through nervous laughter and a hand- clapping protest, created its own form of electricity that added a mystique to the recording. ``To imagine a popular artist today being called `Judas' in the middle of a concert is unthinkable,'' Lee said in an interview from his Manchester home. ``To Dylan in 1966 it was an everyday occurrence.'' Longtime Dylan friend and musician Tony Glover says in the CD's liner notes, ``To this day, this concert stands as one of the greatest events in rock history.'' The music being created by Dylan on that tour ``was the hinge that swung music in a different direction,'' Jones says. It stands as a link between folk music, folk rock and rock. As audiences did throughout the tour, the Manchester crowd sat quietly through the seven-song acoustic set. ``The audience was reverential. It was really like being in a cathedral,'' Lee says. ``Every word was hung on. Every nuance, every note. Everybody was just in rapt attention.'' At the break, Jones says, Dylan was anxious to get back on stage with his band mates. ``He was like a 10-year-old kid. He just couldn't wait,'' Jones says. ``He would come back and strap that Telecaster on and he'd be jumping around the dressing room.'' But when Dylan returned for the electric half backed by the rollicking combo soon to be known as The Band, there were immediate signs of problems. It was easily the loudest concert heard in England, eclipsing the Beatles and Rolling Stones, Lee says. After Dylan finished the first song, the never-before-released ``Tell Me, Momma,'' many of the people in the audience were in shock, Lee says. Before playing ``One Too Many Mornings,'' audience members began a show of protest by slowly clapping hands in unison. People began getting out of their seats, walking in full view of Dylan at the front of the stage with their hands over their ears, and leaving the concert hall. With the clapping as a background, Dylan began muttering bits of indecipherable nonsense into the microphone. He mumbled long enough for the curious to quiet down. Then, when he had their attention, he quipped, ``If you only wouldn't clap so hard.'' Caught off guard, the audience laughed. Dylan often shrugged off the boos and criticism during the tour, Jones says. ``Sometimes he would look back at us and laugh and we'd start laughing amongst each other,'' he says. The tension mounted throughout the eight-song electric half until the heckler yelled ``Judas.'' Jones says he doesn't remember Dylan specifically telling the band to play loud then, ``but it was kind of understood.'' Jones' drum playing, which kicked off the song, has been described as sounding like a rifle shot. ``I killed it,'' he says proudly. ``I made my bass drum sound like a 105 howitzer.'' And then there were the vocals. ``Dylan's voice is a velvet sneer as he shouts out the line, `How does it feeeeeeel,' and the performance rolls on with power, defiance and a sheer majesty rarely captured on tape,'' Glover writes in the liner notes. At the end of the song Dylan gave a curt ``thank you.'' There was no encore. Filmmaker D.A. Pennebaker shot a documentary about the tour. ``Eat the Document,'' edited by Dylan, has not been shown in public since a brief run in New York City during the early '70s. It will be screened this fall at the Museum of Television and Radio in New York City and Los Angeles in conjunction with the CD's release. In the film, members of the Manchester audience are interviewed as they leave the hall. Their anger is clear. ``Any pop group could produce better rubbish than that,'' one young man says. ``It was a bloody disgrace, it was. ... He's a traitor.'' AP-NY-10-08-98 1203EDT Copyright 1998 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without prior written authority of The Associated Press. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:55:34 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: TTT Technical Comment In a message dated 10/8/98 12:05:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gellerray writes: << what up with that? didn't joni notice--or did she like it?!!! weird. >> Good question. It seems most noticable on the title track. It really does surprise me. Actually, most of the vocals sound so "clean", don't they? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:01:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: photo The photograph of Joni in Rolling Stone is a knockout. Much better than the one in NYT. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 14:10:27 -0500 From: Diana Duncan Subject: Re: Joni on PPV? Hi all, I've been so busy with midterms that I had 500 emails to catch up on today and found(thankfully) that I missed a major fire on the list. Flames rising everywhere! God, I hate fighting! I wouldn't call myself a lurker, even though that is what I mostly do. I really appreciate the faithful that write such interesting post. Can you imagine if *every* member posted every day?!!!!! I think this list is a typical family not a soap opera. Although I know a few families that are like soap operas. I've already said my take on Joni's personal life. I like her music as it relates to me. I like a lot of artists work,but doubt if I would choose them as my best friend! About the PPV. I called my cable provider and they said that they won't know what is showing until Nov. 1st. That doesn't give much time for planning. I have a feeling that later on it will be sold as a video.. But if this doesn't happen I sure hope someone gets it on tape for me to negotiate a trade with. Diana, Waiting to hear about where the Chicago Concert goers are gonna meet and greet. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:04:14 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Yanni (NJC) "Don Rowe" >>And now I will fall on my sword and say that Yanni's first two albums, >>which are entirely synthesized, are really quite good. Somebody, anybody, hold me back ... I'm ... I'm gonna ... can't ... breathe ... room spinning ... help ... me ... please ... for the love of God ... please ... help me ... - -Fred P.S. Nothing personal, Don, believe me ... it's just Yanni. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:15:39 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in my Dream (SJC) In a message dated 10/8/98 1:58:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Ashara@aol.com writes: << You need a vacation, and you should spend a minimum of 2 weeks time, in JAMAICA!!! NOW!!!!!!!! >> Ach, Ashara eez correct. However, I suggest you find a restaurant mitout a singing chef. Ze jerky sauce might be too spicy, no? Mine Best To You, Dr. SigMondegreen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:25:17 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Hello out there in Joniland Ask for something you might get it. There is so much wonderful Joni news and commentary out there, this rabid Joniphile is in 7th heaven. I have friends bringing me copies of all the news reports and photos from the mags and I'm overwhelmed with about 25 unopened JMDL digests in my email box. So even though I'm ashamed that I don't know what the latest controversy or discusson topic is with you fine people, I'm going to throw in some of my stray comments about the NYTimes article that I read this morning. First, the picture. I'm sure Joni hates this photograph but it's the most beautiful shot I've ever seen of her. I love every line on her face and her expression reeks wisdom. Second, her arrogance. I guess it is arrogant for her to compare herself to Mozart, Blake and Picasso. Not much humility there, but she's right. She's an innovator and a genius, and all of these people were also criticized for their arrogance, so there it is. Third, it cracked me up to hear her say that she was already past "Taming the Tiger," so I guess she'll be a little testy on tour and maybe sneer at the crowd a bit as the songs start to bore her. YAWN! (i did read that digest!!) The old man is snoring ... Taming the Tiger gets better and better as I listen to it. But then so do all her other albums. Spouting more unconditional love for my hero, the apologist, Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:28:40 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Peter Gabriel (now with 50% more Joni content!) Robbert wrote: >>And then, after 6 years, FINALLY we hear that Peter's new record is >>going to be called UP ... What is it with my favourite artists that >>they all have to take SO much time... I feel your pain ... but perhaps it would help to think of an album length project as a symphonic suite, and it is very common for composers to take 6, 10, 12 years or more composing one symphony. Better that than rushing out work to satisfy the hunger of the commerce monster. Artists like Gabriel and Joni apparently need the time so that they really have something new to say. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:39:10 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: TTT/Fresh Air review Ken Tucker reviewed, mostly favorably, TTT on Fresh Air today (10/8/98). You can hear it in Real Audio by going to the Fresh Air/NPR site (www.npr.org). Anyway, Tucker starts by comparing Joni to Blake via the title track, so now I guess the writer of the NYT article doesn't have to note with raised eyebrow that Joni makes the comparison herself ... Tucker's got Joni off the hook. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:23:38 -0300 From: "wallykai" Subject: RE: vibrato (NJC) Thomas, I think that basically we agree that excessive vibrato, as Howard Wright pointed out, may disfigure melody and mask the inability to hit a note. But I say MAY, not WILL. I don't have quantitative data on how much more frequent vibrato is in opera than in other forms of dramatic singing, but neither do you, I suppose. As to which periods favored or rejected vibrato, I find it impossible to say since "vibrato", unlike "cantabile", "rubatto, etc..", has never been a standard annotation in music scores of any epoch. I'd like to say again that vibrato and wobble tolerance depend on the listener and maybe on the work too [hence my mentioning Emma Kirkby and Nancy Argenta]. I did not include Barbershop, Bulgarian diaphony or what have you because they were irrelevant to the issue at hand, which was and is "I don't like OPERA because of the vibrato". [ Incidentally, I find this assertion analogous to "I don't like rodeos because the cowboy won't stay still". I told the Gwyneth Jones story neither as an example of how easily loud speakers might loosen my bowels [in which case now I know I can borrow Pavarotti's diapers] nor as proof that acoustic phenomena can pass for music. I was trying to convey the idea that dramatic singing is the result of extreme energy transformations that can be physically felt and even quantified. Vibrato may sometimes be the mark of a mediocre voice; however, it is often also the measure of a singer's heroism. If ever there was an opera singer vilified for her vibrato, that singer was Maria Callas. Many musicians, listeners and critics can't still decide whether they like or hate her voice. Yet, no one will ever doubt the value of her contribution to opera and the new meaning she brought to singing. Her vibrato turned into wobble in her mid-career, and still it was the imperfection in her voice that showed the true dimension of what she conquered. On the other hand, you can listen to Kiri Te Kanawa for weeks on end and you won't hear any vibrato. But boy does she know how to sing out of tune! WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:25:25 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Copyright Bill (VLJC) In general, I disapprove of things like the copyright bill article being spammed to the list. At least it wasn't a petition! However, one provision has been much debated in the music community: "Under the compromise, included in the copyright legislation, bars and restaurants that are less than 3,750-square-feet will be exempt from paying music royalties. The bill exempts stores that are less than 2,000-square-feet from paying royalties." Translation: Those establishments will no longer be paying "little royalty pennies" to ASCAP and BMI, and a proportion of those pennies will no longer be flowing back into the pockets of songwriters, like Joni...or Tom Ross...or Fred... or me. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:31:34 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Self-portraits, TTT, Clouds and Tai Chi Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:40:56 PDT >>as [the cats] prowl over the keyboards in an earnest effort to >> improve the arrangement. There is a famous composition by Scarlatti entitled "Cat Fugue" which was supposedly inspired by a series of notes struck by his cat walking across the keyboard. Scarlatti used these notes as the subject of his fugue. The story may be apocryphal, but it's a wonderful piece of music. I'm really allergic to cats, plus I don't care for them much. Coincidence? - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:26:23 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Joni on PPV? You can catch the schedule on the "Viewers Choice" web page. This is only if they are your local outlet for PPV. I believe there are two of them. Check it out at: www.viewerschoice.net Diana Duncan wrote: > Hi all, > I've been so busy with midterms that I had 500 emails to catch up on today > and found(thankfully) that I missed a major fire on the list. Flames rising > everywhere! God, I hate fighting! > > I wouldn't call myself a lurker, even though that is what I mostly do. I > really appreciate the faithful that write such interesting post. Can you > imagine if *every* member posted every day?!!!!! > I think this list is a typical family not a soap opera. Although I know a > few families that are like soap operas. > > I've already said my take on Joni's personal life. I like her music as it > relates to me. I like a lot of artists work,but doubt if I would choose > them as my best friend! > > About the PPV. I called my cable provider and they said that they won't > know what is showing until Nov. 1st. That doesn't give much time for > planning. > I have a feeling that later on it will be sold as a video.. But if this > doesn't happen I sure hope someone gets it on tape for me to negotiate a > trade with. > > Diana, > Waiting to hear about where the Chicago Concert goers are gonna meet and > greet. - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:52:12 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Self-portraits, TTT, Clouds and Tai Chi Fred writes ... >There is a famous composition by Scarlatti entitled "Cat Fugue" which was supposedly inspired by a series of notes struck by his cat walking across the keyboard. Scarlatti used these notes as the subject of his fugue. The story may be apocryphal, but it's a wonderful piece of music. > I'm afraid my felines are only capable of diminished minor sevenths with a dropped fourth ... nice accent chords occasionally, but I'm not sure I could write a whole piece around them -- oh well. ;-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 00:52:56 -0700 From: jussi Subject: Re: janet jackson msg...(njc) KerriLynn@aol.com wrote: > Just a quick note to let you know how excited i am to go see Janet this > weekend.... > I'll be there at MSG in NYC with bells on!!!!! > Do ya think joni will make a special appearance????? > One can dream can't she???? In a way Joni does appear - on the big screen behind the stage during "Got 'Til It's Gone". I think they used the Joni sample on the live version. - --jussi - ---------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:54:39 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: lindsay edits joni... greetings listers! as you might easily guess, TTT debuted at # 1 on my personal top 40 charts and it has remained there ever since a sneak preview was placed in my hands on saturday, september 5th, 1998. (les can add this to his "joni history list" if he likes.) i have been playing it exclusively every day, in my car. and my 7 year old daughter, the lovely lindsay, (future spice girl slash super model) has become a fan. (following kakki's footsteps and reeling in the fans, i am.) the other night she was singing softly to herself in the backseat some song i almost recognized. (poor thing can't carry a tune in a bucket, which dovetails nicely into her spice girl plans...) "happiness is the best spaceship". "what are you singing?" i asked, secretly thrilled. she repeated the line. i corrected her, ever so lovingly. "what the heck is a facelift?" she wanted to know. (so young, so young) i explained. she thought it over for a moment. "i like my way better..." she declared, and proceeded to sing the chorus, her way. what could i do but join in? who knows? happiness may just be the best spaceship. (don't tell joni) love, ric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:54:45 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: [Re: I Love Joni Mitchell! As a PERSON!] martin - your sign on just about gave me a heart attack! for a split, pulse thumping second, i thought "OH MY GOD, IT'S HER! SHE JOINED THE JMDL!" phew! - ric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 17:56:35 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Birthday Card Ok first an update. Wally Breese is going to be putting the card together this year. Wally has told me that the picture we wanted for the front of the card is copyrighted and we don't have the rights to use it. I think part of the problem might be that it is a publicity shot paid for by Reprise. The card will be passed from Wally through Reprise to Joni, so you see the problem. I've left it up to Wally to find a suitable picture or art work to put on the front of the card. He has asked me to have the names and locals from everybody no latter than Oct.22. Starting now you can send your Name and Local (example: Ken Slartbartfast from Deux-Montagnes Que. Canada) by email to birthday@jmdl.com The cut of date will be Oct 20. Michael Pax who is going to be gathering the emails will post a list every now and then to show whose emails we have received. That way hopefully nobody will be missed. He will post only email address so you don't have to worry about having your real name or address posted to the list. Below I've posted the winning card again. Ken #16. A simple card, no larger than the "average" Hallmark type card, custom made by someone with a graphics program on their PC. The front could be the illustration from Les' web site of Joni with a cup of coffee, framed by a "squiggly" line to make it look like a postage stamp. Heading on the cover: "We've got stamps of many countries and we wish you a happy birthday!" Then at the bottom of the front cover: "Thank you for sharing so much joy and giving us so much inspiration ... from the Joni Mitchell Discussion List." On the inside, instead of signing names, we'd list by city, state and country where all participating JMDL members reside. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:06:36 -0700 From: davina@pacificsw.com (Davina Greenstein) Subject: Re: lindsay edits joni... >Ric wrote... the other night she was singing softly to herself in the backseat some song i almost recognized. (poor thing can't carry a tune in a bucket, which dovetails nicely into her spice girl plans...) "happiness is the best spaceship". Ric, I think that was one of those moments you always remember. HOW CUTE~!!!! I'll never listen to that song quite the same way ever again... Best, Davina np: Joni and Morrisey...words and music....taboo words ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 16:20:59 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Question about Joni's Bday card From: davina@pacificsw.com (Davina Greenstein) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:15:29 -0700 Can we include our spouse or good friend's name as well on Joni's card if they are not an official JMDL member? I have friends and relatives that keep up on Joni news via my affiliation with the list, due to the fact that they don't have computers and would love to wish Joni a happy birthday. What do you guys think? Davina np: Joni and Morrissey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:17:33 -0700 From: Anne Madden Subject: Times Magazine Review of TTT Hope no-one has posted this already as it is rather lengthy. Times Magazine, October 12th edition entitled "Burning Bright" - "Joni Mitchell on her new daughter, new CD and the sad stage of pop", By Christoper John Farley - Joni Mitchell keeps her own time. Twenty-nine years after Woodstock, 29 years after she turned back en route to playing the original, generation-defining concert because she had heard about the mud, heard about the traffic, heard that it was all a disaster anyway, 29 years later, she is at "A Day at the Garden," a memorial concert held in August at the site of the original fesitval in Bethel, New York. "Took 30 years to get here," she cracks as she takes the stage. The crowd at that first Woodstock was half a million; at this sequel it's about 20,000. No matter. Mitchell is in a good mood and in good voice, and she delivers a jazzy, ebullient set, floating through a few songs from her latest CD, Taming the Tiger. Then, alone with her guitar, she offers up a spare, resonant reading of her gently anthemic song Woodstock. "We are stardust...And we've got to get ourselves back to the garden...."she sings. The lyrics seem to belong to another age, an era of idealism and Abbie Hoffman and moon landings and electric Kool-Aid acid tests and B-52's bombing the Ho Chi Minh Trail. But even as she sings, Mitchell is planted in the present. There's a rootedness about her; she's too grounded to be carried off by gusts of nostalgia. She keeps her own time. With protest songs such as Big Yellow Taxi and classic folk-pop albums like Blue, the Canadian-born Mitchell established herself as one of the most important singer-songwriters in rock. But she doesn't consider herself a folkie; she sees herself somewhere between Miles Davis and Bob Dylan - unclassifable. She has bebopped with Charles Mingus and explored African rhythms with the warrior drums of Burundi. A record store of younger artists - Seal, Sarah McLachlan, even Janet Jackson - has acknowledged her influence. Virtually every act on the first Lillith Fair owned her a debt, if not royalties. But because she's been no groundbreaking, so musically mercurial, she has not always reaped the critical and commercial rewards she so richly deserves. The industry dropped me for 20 years," says Mitchell, now 55. "They wouldn't let me in. No matter what I did, they wouldn't let me on the radio (or) or MTC." She says most of what she hears on the radio is "crap". It's all about Wall Street now. And the record is just a poker chip. And these, you now, artists are going willingly into the slaughter. "There are, however, a few things she likes. "Most of my favourite artists are black," says Mitchell, who admires James Brown, Etta James and Duke Ellington. "All modern music is black." She also has nothing but praise for Janet Jackson's song Tot Til It's Gone, an R&B reworking of Mitchell's Big Yellow Taxi. But she has mostly contempt for alternative rock. "Everybody says Kurt Cobain was a great writer. I don't see it," Mitchell says. "Why is he a hero? Whining and killing yourself - I fail to see the heroism in that." Taming the Tiger doesn't sound like anything else on the radio right now; that's both the CD's strength and its burden. Mitchell refused to rest easily in the folk-pop genre she helped establish. Tiger is composed of crystalline tones: breezy guitars that ring like wind chimes; crisp, jazzy vocals. A few of the songs attack pop radio ("Boring!" she sings). On other numbers Mitchell gets more personal, recounting her mother's disapproval of a live-in boyfriend. Mitchell's reply: "For God's sake! I'm middle-aged, Mama." And on the album's best song, Harlem in Havana, Mitchell summons up childhood memories of sneaking off to watch risque carnival sideshows. "Aunt Ruthie would have cried," she sings. "If she knew/We were on the inside." In the past, Mitchell's introspective song lyrics have been laced with references to a haunting event from her youth. In 1964, when Roberta Joan Anderson (Mitchell's given name) was 21, she gave up her daughter for adoption. Last year, however, Mitchell and her daughter Kilauren Gibb were reunited. The singer says she is now learning how to be a mother. "It's tricky to mother someone who's a grown woman," she says. "We've had a couple of skirmishes already. We worked our way through them. she was going through second teenage rebellion with me. It's interesting." At a time when acts like 'N Sync and Backstreet Boys cavort in the upper reaches of the charts like kids atop a treehouse, a CD such as Taming the Tiger, whose title song was inspired by 18th century poet William Blake, is a tough sell - unless you're selling it to fans of 18th century English poetry. But Joni will be Joni when the trends have trended out. To paraphrase Blake, she still burns bright." Accompanying this article are two pictures (which I assume Joni drew; one of a cat and one of flowers with a cat curled up beside them). There is also a lovely colour photo (very flattering) of Joni, about 4x6 - it looks like a recent one. Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:34:28 -0400 From: heather Subject: TTT review (JC) Hi everyone! This review is from our local paper (The Hartford Courant). Taming the Tiger - Joni Mitchell - Reprise Records - - by Neal McGarity Joni Mitchell struggles more than ever before on "Taming the Tiger", a darkly brilliant but unsettling album that documents this great artist's restless search for emotional resolution in middle age < me here - is this a nice way of saying menopause?> Far less accessible than her previous two albums, "Taming the Tiger" is at first listen, cold and eerie with dueling musical personalities. The rewards from this album come only after repeated listenings. At times, the music is electronically dense and cluttered and the messages are loaded with resentment. At other times, Mitchell is capable of delivering velvety beauty, as on "Man From Mars", a polished jazz piece that provides a haunting look at how death separates love. Obviously frustrated that the songs that made her famous are her least complex and innovative ones, Mitchell registers strong disdain for the music industry on the title song, calling herself a "runaway from the record biz" as she sneers at today's "whiny white kids" on the radio. (Maybe Mitchell's brief summer tour with well-known music industry hater Van Morrison stoked the anger.) "Taming the Tiger" breaks no new stylistic ground for Mitchell. The music falls into three very expected categories - electronically driven tracks like those heard before on 1985"s "Dog Eat Dog" album; the simplistic, reverb-drenched guitar tracks like those from 1991's "Night Ride Home"; and the satiny jazz blends found on countless Mitchell albums since the mid-'70's. But even though the flavors have been served before, Mitchell manages to keep them alluring. Though hardly a dinner party record, Mitchell's troubled journey on "Taming the Tiger" is an admirable one that few of us are willing to face head on - how do we deal with the great success and acceptance of others, or ambivalent feelings about our parents, or the sense of impending loss that comes with middle age? "Taming the Tiger" naggingly reminds the listener that the great art isn't always about escapist entertainment. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 15:40:20 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Nice Kitty.... At 10:40 AM 10/8/98 PDT, Don Rowe, with tongue-in-cheek, wrote: >You know, I think Joni's fooled us all with this one. Oh I don't doubt >that she was making a recording industry statement with taming the tiger >-- I just doubt very seriously that the "be nice, Kitty Kitty" lines >have anything to do with it. BORING...the old man is snoring...who else but Joni could sing these lines and pull it off? It's like a combination nursery rhyme/self parody. Joni's driving down the road in a rental car, turning the radio dial (no CD player in this one, dammit!), finding nothing to her liking. She stops for some air, and realizes that she's "a runaway from the record biz." Why? Because she's considered "boring" by the whiny white kids. She doesn't pump out "formula music" or "genuine junkfood." Then a little bitterness seeps out: "one false move and you're a goner," she sings. It's like when she stepped away from the mainstream and lost her radio airplay. So now she's trying to "tame the tiger," trying to come to grips with the state of the recording industry and her place in it. She's fighting to find the light that will shine on the path to follow. But she's also being cautious, because she's been bitten by that tiger before. So she approaches it slowly, carefully...."nice kitty kitty." It's what you say to the cat when you're not sure just how it's going to react to you. Then she remembers Anna, "wild and dear," and wishes she could be like that, like "fireworks in the sky." She concludes that she's "sick of the game," and now, to her, it's all boring and the old man is snoring. But she's at peace with it all, because she sings "I'm taming the tiger." The alter-ego voice comes in, taunting: "You *can't* tame the tiger." But as long as she's careful (nice kitty kitty) and doesn't jump in headfirst, she *will* tame the beast (record biz). This album is our answer. She's not going to compromise her artistry for the sake of commercialism. Boring? Anything but! One of my favorite tracks on the entire album. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:47:44 -0400 From: heather Subject: More Joni in the paper! More Joni in our paper today (I love seeing it!) Joni's Way In the final editing of her November 6th pay-per-view concert special, Joni Mitchell is still uncertain if she'll include footage of such beloved songs as "Big Yellow Taxi" and "Woodstock". She performed a few of them at a concert she filmed last May. But "she is not one of those artists who creates hits and then plays them the rest of her career," says Mitchell's manager, Steve Macklam. "She feels a certain amount of her work hasn't received the notice it deserved and that's the work she's been most interested in demonstrating to the audience." In addition to songs from Mitchell's current, critically hailed "Taming the Tiger" album, of course. (There is a nice picture of Joni smiling with this article.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:16:15 -0400 From: "Dougher, Lillian W." Subject: Hello fans I just wanted to say HI......I found Joni's webpage the other night and have just signed up.......it so far has been very interesting and intriguing.......If anyone feels like informing me on what has been going on recently I would greatly appreciate it. I am happy to be here...:^) >****lily** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:46:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Holliston Subject: Joni in Vanity Fair This month's issue of Vanity Fair (Brad Pitt on cover) has a feature called 200 legends, leaders, and trailblazers, about influential American women. One page is devoted to Divas - not photographed by Annie Leibowitz, but a very good drawing/caricature. They are: Madonna, Patti Smith, Tina Turner, Diana Ross, Aretha Franklin, Joni Mitchell, Whitney Houston, and Barbra Streisand. Taming the Tiger is of course mentioned :-) Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:59:00 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Joni the oldies wurlitzer In a message dated 10/8/98 7:45:55 AM, philipf@tinet.ie wrote: >The point I was trying to make, admittedly >not very eloquently, was that I think it is unfair to Joni Mitchell >to compare her with James Taylor at this stage in their careers, >considering the diverging paths they took musically. Plus the >fact that the more risky route chosen by Joni has damaged her >commercially. I really don't mean to just continue arguing for argument's sake until someone gets tired and stops, it's just that these issues are important to me; I prefer to think of this as extended enthusiastic debate. A few years ago in an interview Sting said he felt that James was mining deeper and deeper in his one mine, refining his craft and maturing in his art, whereas he felt that Joni was meandering, having musically lost her way, losing or abandoning her prodigious melodic/harmonic gift. As heretic as it may be to say so here (and, actually, I've said it before), I tend to agree with him. I've always felt that risk in art is not limited to experimentation; it is equally risky to remain true to one's voice decade after decade, refining and maturing as James has done, continuing to lay bare his emotional life in song. In fact, given the relatively limited range in the surface stylistic elements of his music over the years, it fascinates and delights me to hear how much variation he can accomplish within that narrow scope, making it new each time. It is more obvious to laud the artist in the vanguard, overtly pushing musical boundaries and engaging in bold experimentation, but less obvious to see the risk in quietly singing one's own one true song, season after season, no matter how much the leaves change color around him. That is truly avant garde. Now, if James were just rehashing old material and mechanically repeating himself, it would be a different story, but he is not ... he is a folk story teller, roaming the land telling his one story in a thousand different ways. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 17:47:59 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Joni Covers I'd love to hear Joni sing, "Cry Me A River..." Sigh... Leslie Steve Mixon http://www.cruzio.com/~stevem ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:42:12 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: Re: Homespun Grassroots vs. Eclectic Electric In a message dated 98-10-08 12:45:08 EDT, you write: << I'm one of these strange people who draw a very clear distinction between melancholy and depression. To me, TI has always been melancholy, and conveys a deepening appreciation of life that sometimes only painful memories and events can bring. >> i like to put the covers of ti and ttt next to each other as i listen to them both. they cerainly go together and i don't see how she could have either with out the other. ti was a necessary step to the happiness she clearly shows in ttt. they are a tension and a balance and that is rich. pj ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 20:56:20 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Re: Twilight Zone (NJC) At 09:32 PM 10/6/98 -0500, The Paz man wrote: >Julie- > That's really scary! Really Michael, you don't strike me as the type of guy who is easily scared?!?!? Pull yourself together, man! I guess, Im missing something here. Ahhhh, Michael Paz, I don't care what you say, I will never forget how much fun you were at Ashara's playing the lead in "La Bamba." It was a wonderful moment for **me,** Julie Z. Webb and that's all that matters. (;~D Drew Dix wrote: >I really enjoy this list, and post infrequently because it really is time >consuming to read thoughtfully AND post thoughtfully. I don't consider myself >a lurker, and you folks aren't a soap-opera to me either. I feel involved, Diane Duncan wrote: > wouldn't call myself a lurker, even though that is what I mostly do. I >really appreciate the faithful that write such interesting post. Can you >imagine if *every* member posted every day?!!!!! Diane and Drew, I kinda figured after I sent my post, that my "lurker line" wouldn't sit right with some. (A post that takes 20 minutes to compose will do that.) So don't worry, be happy.... -JulieZW, who says that **no one,** should take anything too seriously that I write ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:05:27 -0400 From: "Dougher, Lillian W." Subject: RE: TTT Technical Comment >---------- > >There is something a bit annoying with the way her voice is miked. It's >almost >that her mouth is too close to it, or it was recorded too high, but I hear >annoying enunciating sounds- little blows of air- when she sings words with >"b" or "p". > - ------------------------- I think that this is just another distintion of her going on with her songs..... personally I love every strange hints of different things squeezed into her albums throughout time......it's kind of interesting how it all changes with the wind.................... >****lily** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 02:15:18 +0100 From: Rob Jordan Subject: Re: technical TTT For me, one of the strong points of TTT, especially Love Puts On a New Face, Facelift and Stay In Touch, is the feeling of intimacy. I don't know the technicalities, but I feel as if Joni is singing more quietly and closer to the mic than usual. Could this be consistent with the "popping plosives"? Rob >from Terry: >>>>but I hear annoying enunciating sounds-little blows of air-when she >sings words with "b" or "p". ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 02:15:19 +0100 From: Rob Jordan Subject: Re: COPYRIGHT PROTECTION/POOH - NJC Whaa! Don't get me started about what Disney did to Winnie the Pooh! That crudely drawn little character in the red jersey hasn't half the heart of the original drawings from AA Milne's books, and the stories were just desecrated and jumbled together beyond recognition. Rob, suffering an attack of intolerance!! At 09:21 08/10/98 -0800, Shari wrote: >WASHINGTON (Variety) - Rest easy, ``Steamboat >Willie'' and ``Winnie the >Pooh.'' > >The two aging animated characters would have soon >passed into the public >domain if Congress had not reached an agreement >Wednesday to extend the >U.S. copyright term by another 20 years. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 02:15:23 +0100 From: Rob Jordan Subject: Re: Slowcoaches - Peter Gabriel (SJC) This is an interesting issue. Why does it necessarily follow that a higher work rate leads to crap? I can't understand why the industry has changed so drastically since the seventies. Joni produced a brilliant album just about every year in the 70-77 period. Van Morrison still produces an album every year, and, while they're not all masterpieces, he maintains an extremely high standard. Why is it that certain artists feel they need 5 years or more to write and record 8 or 10 songs? Personally, I think it's lack of motivation or drive, more than their desire to achieve high standards. Plus the "business" issues, which conspired to keep TTT in the can for a year, for marketing reasons, and yet still not produce any discernable push for the artist. Rob At 13:53 08/10/98 EDT, IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: >Robbert@vansprang.demon.nl writes: << > What is it with my favourite artists that they all have to take SO much > time... >> >Would you prefer that they pump out crap every 6 or 9 months merely to sell >CDs and keep their name in the public eye? >I think not. > >Paul I > ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #406 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?