From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #405 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, October 8 1998 Volume 03 : Number 405 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Nashville@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com Orlando@jmdl.com -Tampa@jmdl.com Sunrise@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni covers [FredNow@aol.com] 95% NJC: Opera and vibrato [Howard Wright ] TTT Technical Comment [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Joni the oldies wurlitzer ["Philipf" ] When Joni was 30 ["Philipf" ] I'm here, really [Drewdix@aol.com] Re: Time Out NY TTT review ["Don Rowe" ] billboard debut [Tortorici@exchange.conference-board.org] Re: Joni covers [Howard Motyl ] Homespun Grassroots vs. Eclectic Electric [DKasc13293@aol.com] The New $20 Bill (Absolutely NJC) [Janet Hess ] Maybe Joni is really a gay man. [Steve Dulson ] vibrato (NJC) [Thomas Ross ] Re: The New $20 Bill (Absolutely NJC) [catman ] Peter Gabriel (NJC) [Robbert ] Re: TTT Technical Comment [Gellerray@aol.com] COPYRIGHT PROTECTION - NJC [Shari ] PPV - JMDL Gathering [Mary Grace Valentinsson ] Re: Homespun Grassroots vs. Eclectic Electric ["Don Rowe" >Maybe Joni is really a gay man. She's a gay black man. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:59:50 +0100 (BST) From: Howard Wright Subject: 95% NJC: Opera and vibrato This vibrato thing is one of my pet subjects, but I'll try and contain myself and keep it brief! Thomas Ross wrote: >I take the operatic singing style to be designed to project in a theater >without amplification. . . but yes something's out of whack with certain >manners, esp the wide vibrato which masks outoftuneness. WallyK wrote: >As to vibrato, well, to quote John Ardoin "vibrato is the lifeblood of a >voice as it is of a string player's sound. It is that slight fluctuation >of pitch just above and below the core of a note that lends it color and >life. Just where vibrato ends, or becomes excessive, and a wobble begins >depends on the individual listener." This is a great definition of vibrato, and emphasises the crucial point that what is "acceptable" is entirely subjective. Speaking as someone with minimal knowledge or experience of opera, I have to say that many, perhaps most, opera and classical singers turn me off very quickly, usually because of the vibrato. My own rule of thumb is that if I can no longer hear whether a singer is singing, say, an F# or a G, because the vibrato is too wide, then something is wrong! I often hear singers who end up blurring the melody simply because the vibrato is too wide - you can no longer differentiate the semitones! If I can't hear the tune, I lose interest very quickly. If you already know the tunes, I guess that helps, but if you don't, good luck ... I also find that the simpler the melody, the more the use of wide vibrato is acceptable. I heard the "Ode To Joy" tune from Beethoven's 9th a while back, and they were really slapping on the vibrato, but it sounded great because the tune is so simple and so strong, that there was no danger of the melody being lost in the vibrato, so you could crank it up and it sounded good. Another thing - when you have more than two or three voices singing together I find you have to be more and more careful about using vibrato. Again, it's just a case of "what notes are they singing?" - the effect gets stronger when there are three or four "wobbly notes" being sung at the same time. I think vibrato is a wonderful effect, but like so much, has the greatest impact when it is used sparingly. I love hearing singers who can hold a notes without wavering a fraction, but can also add vibrato to some notes to add expression. If *every* note has vibrato, it really loses impact, unless the degree of vibrato is carefully controlled. (Everything in moderation, including moderation) The JC bit: There are some obvious cases where Joni has "slapped on the vibrato". At times, I find hers a little too strong, though it's a noticeably *slower* vibrato than you usually hear, which makes it a little easier on my ears. Most of the time, she has a fairly true, steady pitch when she sings, so her use of vibrato is effective because those notes stand out. Howard W. ******************************************************* Howard.Wright@ed.ac.uk Formula music, girly guile Genuine junk food for juveniles Up and down the dial Mercenary style - Joni Mitchell ******************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:35:23 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: TTT Technical Comment Guess I'm way behind in writing about TTT- seems everyone got their copy before I did- but other than a quick comment that I'm really enjoying this piece, I'm curious if others have noticed something. There is something a bit annoying with the way her voice is miked. It's almost that her mouth is too close to it, or it was recorded too high, but I hear annoying enunciating sounds- little blows of air- when she sings words with "b" or "p". Ok, call me petty. But tell me I'm not alone. Other than that, with the first few days of listening to it, I'm totally hooked on No Apology, Harlem and even the title song. Unfortunately, I didn't read the other reviews because I didn't want to be swayed before listening to it myself, so I'll have to check out the archives. As for the overdosing on the VG, it really doesn't bother me. I think the synth is way more overbearing than the VG. Sometimes I like it, other times I don't. Well, this is my first reaction- I may feel differently in another week. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:25:22 +0100 From: "Philipf" Subject: Re: Joni the oldies wurlitzer Fred wrote: >Philip, you may not particularly care for James' music, which, of course, is >cool Hello Fred, I like James Taylor. I can't think of a single thing to dislike about him. The point I was trying to make, admittedly not very eloquently, was that I think it is unfair to Joni Mitchell to compare her with James Taylor at this stage in their careers, considering the diverging paths they took musically. Plus the fact that the more risky route chosen by Joni has damaged her commercially. Philip NP Robbie Robertson/ Howie B - Take Your Partner by the Hand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:41:25 +0100 From: "Philipf" Subject: When Joni was 30 More from the back pages of Rolling Stone. It was Christmas 1973 and James Willworth wrote a really nice piece on how he felt about passing the 30 year milestone. He also asked the stars who were 30 that year how they felt and their replies were printed along with a teen and a current picture of each. This is what Joni said: "This is a youth culture and few people in it know how to age gracefully. It's something we should all look into since we are all going to get old." Intelligent and perceptive I think. Some of the other words of wisdom were : "As soon as you are able to reproduce you are over the hill. You start to go downhill at 18 physically" Mick Jagger "I feel like an 8PM television show - just getting into prime" Billie Jean King (This amazed me, I would have put King about 20 years older than Joni.) "Absolutely nothing. In a year that has seen such incredible developments, the fact that a newspaper is doing such a story is fucking incredible." Bob Woodward "I like Diane Keaton and Candice Bergen. It gets more intense every year. " Mike Bloomfield The mandatory dope article appeared and Joni was mentioned as always in Random Notes - she sang back up with Dr John at the Troubadour. Pete Townsend demonstrated the most efficient way to smash a guitar. Strangely there is no six page article about either The Grateful Dead or Jefferson Airplane anywhere to be seen. Ah yes my friends, the past is indeed a strange place. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:16:46 EDT From: Drewdix@aol.com Subject: I'm here, really I really enjoy this list, and post infrequently because it really is time consuming to read thoughtfully AND post thoughtfully. I don't consider myself a lurker, and you folks aren't a soap-opera to me either. I feel involved, and I appreciate all the inside Joni info. you have really made her more human, and I appreciate it! Like many others, I'm just busy as hell, guys,--with only a computer at work (although that's changing next week-so I'll be more visible). I'll bet lots of you have more time to post--I wish I did! So let us live on the fringe not because we're peeping toms, but because it's all we can do right now! Keep up the great dialogue (and I hope to contribute when I can) Yrs very truly (and I hope I see some of you in NY- I'll be there, Sec. 131), Drew Dix ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 06:47:19 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Time Out NY TTT review >Cheesier than Yanni?...now I have seen it all. >Ugh. > >Marsha > >>The production on this album may be cheesier than Yanni, but >>reading the lyric sheet is 99 percent of the fun. > This comment struck me as odd. The production isn't Yanni at all. In fact, if you wanted to make a new-age comparison, you'd be much more on the mark with Vangelis or Kitaro as fas as TTT is concerned. And now I will fall on my sword and say that Yanni's first two albums, which are entirely synthesized, are really quite good. Unfortunately, we see in his later efforts just what a horrid thing commercial success can be -- let's be glad this didn't happen to our Joni. Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:11:35 -0400 From: Tortorici@exchange.conference-board.org Subject: billboard debut Here is an article from SonicNet/Addicted to Noise about this week's Billboard chart (Joni did ok-debuted at 75-about where most artists of her age and history (like James Taylor or Carly Simon) would debut. Could have been much worse: Rappers Jay-Z, Outkast, Tribe Win, Place And Show In Chart Race New releases by established hip-hop artists dominated this week's BillboardTop 200 albums chart. Contributing Editor Randy Reiss reports: Two of the three veteran hip-hop artists who made it to the top of the Billboard 200 albums chart again this week are, oddly enough, on the verge of putting an end to their chart-topping act. Soon-to-retire rapper Jay-Z's Volume 2 ... Hard Knock Life made its debut at #1 on this week's Billboard 200 albums chart, and soon-to-be-defunct crew A Tribe Called Quest's latest, The Love Movement, weighed in at #3. Both artists have said they're moving on to a different stage of their careers. Jay-Z has chosen to concentrate on running his Roc-A-Fella label, while the bohemian rappers in A Tribe Called Quest are disbanding to turn their focus to solo efforts. "They've earned that s---," rapper Canibus said Wednesday (Oct. 7) of the strong chart showing this week by the rap veterans. Canibus' Can-I-Bus is no stranger to the top 10, although it currently resides at #79. "Artists today have got to be consistent," he continued. "When you start being consistent, you get more sales. You get your fan base. [Jay-Z, Outkast and ATCQ] have all been around for a while now, and people have gone and picked up their albums. They've got to be happy about that." In a week in which the top 10 was dominated by hip-hop artists' new releases, sales watchdog SoundScan reported that Jay-Z's second full-length album pulled ahead of the pack by selling 352,000 copies in the week ending Oct. 4, landing the rapper in the #1 slot. Atlanta-based rappers Outkast landed at #2 with Aquemini, their critically acclaimed third album, which moved 227,000 copies. The Love Movement, an album Tribe claim is their last, sold 175,000 copies in its first week of release, as fans rushed to put an ear to such new songs as "Da Booty" (RealAudio excerpt). "We're splitting up basically because we want to express ourselves in different ways," Tribe's Ali explained recently. "[W]e don't want to ruin what TCQ [are] in the ways that we want to express ourselves. We don't think that fans appreciate it, so it's time to say good-bye to Tribe. It was a good long run [but] it's time for us to start something new." The rappers' successes made it tough for new works by rockers Sheryl Crow and PJ Harvey in their first week on the charts. In fact, the only rock-related top-10 debut, rock chanteuse Crow's The Globe Sessions, landed at #5 this week. Spurred by the popularity of the album's first single, "My Favorite Mistake," the album sold 123,000 copies. Coming in just behind Crow was Nu Nation Project from gospel rapper Kirk Franklin, which sold 104,000 copies and landed at #7. The final top 10 debut release belongs to the #9 charting No Limit collection, Mean Green Presents Major Players Compilation, which moved 89,000 copies. With all these newcomers arriving in the top 10, it was time for some longtime residents to drop out for the first time since their release. Hello Nasty, from the punk-rappers Beastie Boys, for example, dropped from #7 to #14. Shock rocker-gone-glam Marilyn Manson saw his Mechanical Animals slide from #5 to #15. Meanwhile, '70s cartoon-rockers Kiss may have had reason to celebrate last week, when their Psycho-Circus debuted at #3, higher than any of their previous efforts. But they but were probably not as thrilled to see it swan-dive this week to #35. The same goes for Christian rock/rap group dc Talk, whose Supernatural was sandwiched between Manson and Kiss last week at #4, but this week tumbled to #32. Debuts farther down the charts include Enquiring Minds, the first solo effort from Three Six Mafia rapper Gangsta Boo, at # 46; El Oso, the third album for eclectic pop rockers Soul Coughing, at #49; Black Star, the debut from underground sensations Mos Def & Talib, at #53; Is This Desire, from alt-rock queen Harvey, at #54; Brand Nubian's reunion album, Foundation, at #59; Joni Mitchell's Taming The Tiger at #75 and Elvis Costello and Burt Bacharach's Painted From Memory at #78. The lower-half of the Billboard Top 200 albums chart also contained a few notable debuts. Coming in at #107 was Unkle's Psyence Fiction -- a project from Mo Wax Records founder James Lavelle and American DJ Shadow. The concept album features such guest stars as The Verve's singer Richard Ashcroft, Radiohead's frontman Thom Yorke and rapper Kool G Rap. Meanwhile, Gangsta rapper Badazz saw his debut, Word On Tha Street, step into the #182 spot while the soundtrack to "Strangeland," the first film from former Twisted Sister singer Dee Snider, showed up just a few steps behind at #185. Meanwhile, in the not-new-but-new-to-the-charts department, former House of Pain frontman Everlast saw his blues-and-rap fused Whitey Ford Sings The Blues crack the charts for the first time since its Sept. 8 release, at #173. Fueled by a club tour and alternative radio's playing of the first single, "What It's Like" (RealAudio excerpt), the album has increased its sales each week since it hit store shelves. The rest of the top 10: The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill, Lauryn Hill (#4); 'N Sync, 'N Sync (#6); Come On Over, Shania Twain (#8) and Stunt, Barenaked Ladies (#10). [ Thurs., October 8, 3:00 AM EDT ] ARTIST INFO TODAY'S NEWS Copyright © 1998 SonicNet, Inc. All rights reserved. Please do not reprint entire SonicNet news stories without written permission from SonicNet. If you excerpt, rewrite, or in some way make use of portions of our news, attribute to: SonicNet Music News of the World, the daily music news service - http://www.sonicnet.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:30:05 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Re: Joni covers wallykai wrote: > > >Maybe Joni is really a gay man. > > > >Howard M > > Well, according to Dylan she's an "honorary" man. > WallyK I've always sort of thought of Joni having more of a masculine sensibility. And I don't mean that in any derogatory manner. I have said in the past that I have a strong feminine, and I believe that I do. She is much more comfortable, it seems from my faraway vantage point, working with men, she has a bit of disregard for the newer female performers out there, and there is something tough about her. Tough in a masculine way, a male bravado and swagger. And then, she makes observations in her songs that only a rare man would make. Maybe she was the free man in paris . . . longtime home of that other masculine woman, and the mother of us all, Gertrude Stein . . . Howard M ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:40:15 EDT From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Homespun Grassroots vs. Eclectic Electric More input to responses re: TTT Like most recent material, specifically NRH, TI, and TTT, appreciation is an acquired taste. I remember playing NRH for the first time, downright disappointed if you can imagine, that there wasn't a "catchy" accessible song in the lot! All homespun acoustic arrangements with little "pop" flare! First impressions, Oy! Then TI's dark depression. Who wants to listen to that? This stuff is going to put me in a funk. More of the acoustic arrangements and so hopeless. Listening to TI this morning, I realize the strength in the material. The beauty. So what of TTT. First impressions, watered down and fatiqued. Joni sounds tired on some of the tracks and her delivery sounds so "careful". A completely different turn with all of the electronica. Not that it was absent with TI and NRH, but it's now very upfront, specifically leading with the Parker Fly. So, I am pondering... am I losing interest in Joni. Have I played the ardent admiration out. Do I want to expend the energy to acquire this new appreciation? Has everyone else been right to move on, while I have remained loyal to her art? I remain optimistic ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:55:48 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: The New $20 Bill (Absolutely NJC) I probably like money almost as much as the next person, but *my* this thing is ugly! Cheerz, Janet, sufficiently unglued by her first new $20 to take it out on the JMDL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:03:45 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Maybe Joni is really a gay man. Howard M wrote (re: The Last Time I saw Richard): >So, you see, when a man sings it about another man, the whole meaning of >the song changes--it actually deepens, in a way...Maybe Joni is really a >gay >man. I have not heard it, but I've heard *of* a gay man's cover of The Priest (by Dudley? Something?) that is supposed to give a really different, interesting take on the song. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:17:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Ross Subject: vibrato (NJC) > I want to take exception to the frequent comments on the oft-maligned > vibrato, which, by the way, is not exclusively operatic. certainly: but it's the amount, which can mask inaccuracy. > First off, I believe that most people that confess their inability to like > opera because singers use vibrato are simply lazy and trying to find excuses > not to explore new fields. well this may amount to de gustibus. certainly work can reveal understanding of anything. and musically (in contrast with current performance-practice) I'm crazy about certain operas, esp Mozart. But do you have evidence that the wide vibratos were always part of the style? > hoo too. Even today, one doesn't need to go to a secluded Italian village to > enjoy opera. [By the way, opera is not exclusively Italian.] Then I take it you've not had this experience either. The idea that > opera is entertainment for the elite is wrong. true in america, but maybe not in spain, argentina, or elsewhere in europe. furthermore, financial and other reasons in USA have attached this highclass association. > As to vibrato, well, to quote John Ardoin "vibrato is the lifeblood of a > voice as it is of a string player's sound. It is that slight fluctuation of > pitch just above and below the core of a note that lends it color and life. color/life is possible without vibrato. I know what he means. But in harmonic music, excessive vibrato can confound the intended chord. you understand: it's this type that bugs many musicians. I'm not against vibrato per se, just when it's out of control. the above quote suggests that vibrato is natural for voice, and this is erroneous. it's a style. moreover, I believe it would be possible to render a vibratoless aria with plenty of emotional impact. . .in fact, wasn't this the habit in Monteverdi (Sp?)'s day? pray enlighten me. in fact, vibrato-less a cappella chords (doowop, barbershop) can have the most harmonic impact. in barbershop, we say the chord 'rings' when all 4 are singing really in tune. this effect is impossible with vibrato. > Just where vibrato ends, or becomes excessive, and a wobble begins depends > on the individual listener." this is waffling about wobbling. out of tune is out of tune. yes different people have different tolerances about outoftuneness. I have enormous wobble tolerance when it comes > to Slavic\Eastern European voices well again work brings understanding. they don't sing in tune all the time, either. and none whatsoever for singers that do > repertories that call for "straight" voices. Emma Kirkby and Nancy Argenta > are my two of my favorite vibrato-less voices. right. > A final thought on opera and opera singers. Sound emission requires an > extraordinary amount of energy, which is obtained from pulmonic air and > muscular action. Until you've been a few [or not so few sometimes] feet away > from a dramatic soprano, you'll never know what it means to have your skull > literally vibrate to the acoustic energy coming from the singers chest. A > couple of years ago, I was sitting 20 feet away from Dame Gwyneth Jones as > she began her concert in Buenos Aires. This then 62 year-old woman, "an > unbridled force of nature" as Roberto once put it, open her mouth and out > came this hurricane of sound and, yes, much, much vibrato. My eyes began to > fill with tears, partly because of the emotion of hearing Gwyneth, but most > of all because of the acoustic phenomenon that was taking place in my > cranium: my head had been so affected by resonance that my eyes began to > tear as a form of self-defense! Needless to say, this was an unamplified > event. right, but vibrato need not be part of that sheer volume: witness Korean 'one-woman opera', Bulgarian diaphony, etc. acoustic phenomena may be a step away from musicality, unless you think that bass speakers making people shit in their pants is musical. > Opera is extreme, it is dangerous. Unlike other musicians, opera singers > wake up every morning wondering if their instrument is still there! > Respectable opera singers [the only ones worth listening to and worshipping, > in any case] go out on a tightrope every evening with no net to catch them. > They are our martyrs: they take a leap into the unknown every minute for our > pleasure and many times they fall and die. there's a reason Pavarotti wears diapers! tr > WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 16:25:38 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: The New $20 Bill (Absolutely NJC) One of the things I found difficult on my US was that the notes all looked the same-same colour and size. Here each note is a diiferent colouir and size-saves mistakes being made!!! Janet Hess wrote: > I probably like money almost as much as the next person, but *my* this > thing is ugly! > > Cheerz, > Janet, > > sufficiently unglued by her first new $20 to take it out on the JMDL - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:32:34 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Cops, judges and juries (JMDL Content) Kakki wrote: >Doesn't that put the collective membership in the position of being judge >and jury for a private dispute? Is that really, truly what we want to do >here on a discussion list? and she is, as usual, right on. While we all would, I think, be down on private hate mail, Les aint a cop, and we aint a judge and jury. I regret that Chili received some disagreeable private mail, and I regret that jmdlers, who are in general a fine bunch of folks, IMHO, should choose to express themselves in that manner. This is the third (or fourth? or fifth?) major brouhaha the list has been through in the couple of years I've been on it, and there will undoubtedly be more. If we all keep civility and tolerance right up front, we can minimize the upset. Love to all, ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 17:30:15 +0200 From: Robbert Subject: Peter Gabriel (NJC) And then, after 6 years, FINALLY we hear that Peter's new record is going to be called UP (save the Viagra-related jokes please) and is mainly about rivers... I jumped up (!), almost went throught the ceiling, to then read that it is still far from being released, and won't see the light of day before "...summer 1999"... What is it with my favourite artists that they all have to take SO much time... Robbert, happy but desperate ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:05:23 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: TTT Technical Comment i did indeed notice joni's plosives popping into the mike when first listening--especially noticeable in the car. I thought it might be my car's probably (i am no techie so sometimes don't think i'm the best judge of such things) shitty (pardon) speakers, but now I hear the same thing form you, terry. what up with that? didn't joni notice--or did she like it?!!! weird. ray ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:21:11 -0800 From: Shari Subject: COPYRIGHT PROTECTION - NJC THIS IS FROM A DIFFERENT LIST THAT I BELONG TO BUT THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE OF INTEREST TO YOU GUYS AS WELL. SORRY FOR THE LENGTH. SHARI Congress approves copyright extension By Christopher Stern WASHINGTON (Variety) - Rest easy, ``Steamboat Willie'' and ``Winnie the Pooh.'' The two aging animated characters would have soon passed into the public domain if Congress had not reached an agreement Wednesday to extend the U.S. copyright term by another 20 years. The bill extends the copyrights for a wide range of creative works including movies, music, photography and literature. ``This is a great boon for any company that has a large and historic library,'' said lobbyist Timothy Boggs, Time Warner's senior vice president for public policy. Hollywood's top lobbyist, Jack Valenti, the president of the Motion Picture Assn. of America, said he hopes approval of the copyright term extension will be part of a ``trifecta'' that will include approval of changes to U.S. copyright law necessary for approval of two World Intellectual Property Organization treaties. The WIPO treaties and the implementation laws are expected to be approved as early as Thursday. The bill puts the U.S. on par with the European Union by extending the copyright term for movies and other ``works-made-for-hire'' to 95 years. Companies including Disney and Time Warner were strong supporters of the legislation because some of their oldest properties were headed into the public domain in the next few years. For instance, ``Steamboat Willie,'' the first animated incarnation of Disney's Mickey Mouse, was slated to lose its copyright protection in 2003. ``Winnie the Pooh,'' to which Disney owns some rights, was scheduled to follow shortly. In the case of Time Warner, its Warner-Chappel music publishing division controls the copyright to George Gershwin's music, which would soon become public domain if Congress did not reach an agreement to extend the copyright term. In addition the bill would extend the copyright term to the life of an author plus 50 years to the life of the author plus 70 years. The change is also good news for the heirs of the nation's literary lions and songsmiths, who will benefit from another 20 years of royalties. The deal on copyright term extension also wraps up a dispute between music publishers and the nation's restaurant owners and other businesses who play radios and televisions in public spaces. Under the compromise, included in the copyright legislation, bars and restaurants that are less than 3,750-square-feet will be exempt from paying music royalties. The bill exempts stores that are less than 2,000-square-feet from paying royalties. Also included in the bill is a ``sense of Congress'' provision, which encourages studios to negotiate with the screenwriters, directors and actors on works created prior to 1960. In most cases, creators of works made before 1960 have never been paid royalties. The creative guilds hope that the ``good faith'' negotiations called for by Congress will lead to the first royalty checks ever for people such as ``Casablanca'' co-writer Julius Epstein, who has never received a single residual payment since the 1942 classic first hit the screen. Writers Guild of America West had wanted the bill to require negotiations with the pre-1960 creators. WGA West's Cheryl Rhoden said the copyright term extension is a windfall for the studios and that it is ``clearly appropriate that the actual creators'' benefit from the act. Rhoden promised that her group would continue to push for a change in the law that require some payback for creatives. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:34:06 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: PPV - JMDL Gathering Taking my cue from Phyllis: I'm opening my house to host a Joni-thing to gather and watch the PPV concert. I'm in Davis - just across the causeway from Sacramento and about an hour from the Bay Area. Any takers? MG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:41:46 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Homespun Grassroots vs. Eclectic Electric DKasc13293@aol.com writes ... >Like most recent material, specifically NRH, TI, and TTT, >appreciation is an acquired taste. I remember playing NRH for the >first time, downright disappointed if you can imagine, that there >wasn't a "catchy" accessible song in the lot! All homespun acoustic >arrangements with little "pop" flare! First impressions, Oy! Interesting, I had just the opposite reaction. I found NRH to be very accessible, especially the opening cut. "Slouching Towards Bethlehem" was a bit oblique, but compared to TTT, NRH is a very poppy album in it's riffs and hooks. >Then TI's dark depression. Who wants to listen to that? This stuff >is going to put me in a funk. More of the acoustic arrangements and >so hopeless. Listening to TI this morning, I realize the strength in >the material. The beauty. I'm one of these strange people who draw a very clear distinction between melancholy and depression. To me, TI has always been melancholy, and conveys a deepening appreciation of life that sometimes only painful memories and events can bring. But then again, I like Morrissey and Richard Thompson ... which put TI right smack dab on my personal bias. >So what of TTT. First impressions, watered down and fatiqued. Joni >sounds tired on some of the tracks and her delivery sounds so >"careful". I would say "gentle" and "weary" -- much in the way a sigh escapes the lips as you relax into your favorite chair at the end of a long, hard day. >A completely different turn with all of the electronica. Not that it >was absent with TI and NRH, but it's now very upfront, specifically >leading with the Parker Fly. For a deeper appreciation of the keyboard work, contrast TTT with DED or CMIARS, where other musicians played the synths for Joni. I think you'll see how much more subtle the work is, and how much more *Joni* the playing and placement of the synthesis is. BTW, "electronica" to me denotes such things as "house" music, Bjork and Depeche Mode. I wouldn't put TTT in that category, any more than I'd put it in pop or jazz ... >So, I am pondering... am I losing interest in Joni. Have I >played the ardent admiration out. Do I want to expend the energy to >acquire this new appreciation? Has everyone else been right to move >on, while I have remained loyal to her art? > >I remain optimistic > I certainly hope so ... but really, is TTT anymore abrupt a change than HOSL was, all those many years ago? In many ways, Joni's tangents ARE her one consistent feature. The only thing you can predict about an upcoming JM album is that it's "going to be different." Her music's always demanded attention and patience from the listener. I sincerely hope that you will be able to maintain both. Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:47:39 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Not Lurking, A Message beamed from Another Planet From: Chilihead2@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 06:47:35 EDT Hi Listers! Just wanted to state for the record before I receive anymore questions about it. I am not lurking. You know me, if I was here, I'd be here! Still somewhere in cyberspace though just on another planet in another galaxy(I'm sure some of you thought that was where I was coming from all along. Well you were RIGHT. LOL) :-) I will take the opportunity while I'm on this long distance call to say that Poetry slams should be part of the next Joni fest. Been receiving some great poetry from listers! Just e-mail when you want some hot sauce! - -Chili }:-) "Who says hot weather makes hot chilies and it was a hot summer!" PS. "If you would like to paint, then close your eyes and sing."-Picasso "If you would like to write, then open your eyes and paint."-Chili ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:47:05 GMT From: "Phil Klein" Subject: Self-portraits, TTT, Clouds and Tai Chi. Maybe it's just me, but I see a distinct echo of the painting on the cover of Clouds in the painting on the cover of TTT. OK, there are going to be similarities, because its the same person, but look carefully at the highlighting around the mouth, it's identical, and the way the contours of the hair cascade over the right shoulder. Also, both paintings depict Joni holding up something for us to see, in her left hand; a flower in one, a cat in the other. I bet she had the Clouds portrait in mind, consciously or subconsciously when she drew TTT. The big difference (apart from the hat) is in the eyes. Clouds shows Joni with wide-eyed innocence, looking rather vulnerable. 30 years on the gaze is much sterner, austere, almost cold, and worldly wise (or world weary?). Which brings me to my next point. The Tiger which is being Tamed is reckoned to be the record biz, right? Well, that is clearly true on one level, as you can tell from the lyrics to the title track. However, I remember from my Tai Chi teaching that the Tiger is symbolic of ones own internal energy. There is loads of animal symbolism in Tai Chi, and in case people don't know, the sequence (which can last about 20 minutes for the long Yang form) is an allegorical journey through life. The Tiger pops up in various places - there is a movement called "embrace tiger and return to mountain" which means basically pause and reflect, and "twist tigers ears", the meaning of which I've forgotten, and "riding the tiger" which occurs near the end, and represents the stage in life when you have acquired a certain wisdom and have your tiger under control. So, I wonder whether maybe, just maybe, this is what Joni is really telling us? I can't put into words exactly what I mean, but have a fresh look at her expression on the TTT cover - doesn't it convey a certain degree of confidence, mixed with resignation, and tinged with sadness that maybe her most creative days of unbounded energy are behind her? It's also possible that I'm talking shite, in which case sorry for wasting your time. Phil NP: Tubular Bells III - Mike Oldfield. That should be Tubular Balls, IMHO... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:14:41 -0400 (EDT) From: pswmusic@interport.net (Esquizito) Subject: Re: Maybe Joni is really a gay man. >Howard M wrote (re: The Last Time I saw Richard): > >>So, you see, when a man sings it about another man, the whole meaning of >>the song changes--it actually deepens, in a way...Maybe Joni is really a >>gay >man. > >I have not heard it, but I've heard *of* a gay man's cover of The >Priest (by Dudley? Something?) that is supposed to give a really >different, interesting take on the song. No, the artist you're refering to is Jesse Hultberg. Very nice stuff. Wild Monk Records 200 E. 10th St. Suite 477 New York, NY 10003 There is another East Village gay-boy-w/guitar by the name of Dudley Sanders. Esquizito www.interport.net/~pswmusic "Gay boys with their pants so tight..." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:40:56 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Self-portraits, TTT, Clouds and Tai Chi. Phil writes ... >Which brings me to my next point. The Tiger which is being Tamed is >reckoned to be the record biz, right? Well, that is clearly true on >one level, as you can tell from the lyrics to the title track. > You know, I think Joni's fooled us all with this one. Oh I don't doubt that she was making a recording industry statement with taming the tiger - -- I just doubt very seriously that the "be nice, Kitty Kitty" lines have anything to do with it. Here's why ... Cats are convinced that they are their owner's executive assistants. In fact, there's little a person can do on their own that wouldn't dramatically improve with a help of a cat. So with these thoughts in mind, picture Joni recording her title track. She's a relatively novice producer, a fact that isn't lost on El Cafe or Man From Mars. She needs help. So right in the middle of the song, in they come, adjusting settings on the VG8, inserting random synth chords and head-bunting the microphones (and you thought those were "bs" and "ps" popping, silly people!) as they prowl over the keyboards in an earnest effort to improve the arrangement. Tape's spinning, and studio time isn't cheap -- so Joni does the best she can, "Be nice, kitty kitty" she croons in an effort to keep too many feline cooks from spoiling the broth. But the LEDs on the mixing console are catching Nietszche's corneas -- they glow as he stares at Joni -- reminding her of one of her favorite poems. "Burning bright, in the forests of the night" she gently chides, remembering the 18 days of boo-hoo, and deciding that Man From Mars can sit in. So Greg and Larry and Wayne and Joni pack it in, after mixing a stereo scratch down to DAT for review. Joni listens a few days later, and decides not to change a thing. That's how TTT got done! As a musician and cat-fancier, believe me, I ought to know ... Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:47:31 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: washington post n. hornby profile (SJC) Writer on the Beat Nick Hornby's Pop Sensibilities Hit a Chord By Alona Wartofsky Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, October 8, 1998; Page D01 For most people, pop music is merely pop music. Catchy songs on the radio furnished by an assortment of groups, some of which you like, some you don't, many you've never heard of. But for other people, pop music is defining. They presume that a person's record collection says more about him than race or gender or social class. British author Nick Hornby is in the latter set. Rob, the protagonist of Hornby's 1995 "High Fidelity," is a record shop owner who obsessively makes music lists -- "top five records that make you feel nothing at all," "best five pop songs about death," etc. -- and looks down on the crass masses who like Tina Turner and Billy Joel. Will, the 36-year-old self-conscious hipster of Hornby's latest novel, "About a Boy," is horrified when a woman he knows sings "Both Sides Now" with her eyes closed. And we know that her 12-year-old son is maladjusted because sometimes without meaning to, he sings Joni Mitchell songs out loud. Will knew about hip-hop and acid house and grunge and Madchester and indie; he read Time Out and iD and Rolling Stone and Spin and NME, still. But nobody had ever mentioned anything about a Joni Mitchell revival. He felt dispirited. Hornby's pop music references are funny and revealing. They also help account for the substantial cult following he's amassed among the pop music cognoscenti. Hornby's incisive portraits of regular guys who can be self-loathing and wishy-washy have led him to be labeled "master of the male confessional." Some critics have accused him of pandering to female readers by professing to reveal the secrets of the uglier sex. And in England, the author has also been upbraided for playing into the so-called "new lad" culture, young men who know how they're expected to behave in the post-feminist age, but continue to act like pigs -- though with a sense of irony. Here, he's a literary idol for the Doc Martens crowd. The author's reading this past summer at Olsson's downtown was literally overflowing with fans, some of whom stood outside the store, watching through the window. During his introduction, a bookstore clerk told the assembled, most of whom were in their twenties and early thirties, that Hornby "speaks to our generation in a way not many authors do." Hornby, 41, blushed slightly. During the Q&A, someone asked the author what music he's been listening to. "Mary Lou Lord," he said. "Radiohead -- stuff that probably everyone in the room is listening to now." Hornby's fans nodded appreciatively. They all knew that if you like Nick Hornby, you probably like Radiohead as well. "It's quite often a piece of music that makes me want to write, that makes me feel things that I can only put into words," Hornby told them. They nodded again. Afterward, the line for autographed copies made a curlicue around the store. Paul Ciccheti, who owns Flying Saucer Discs in Adams-Morgan, had Hornby sign his copy of "High Fidelity." That book, said Ciccheti, is "required reading" for store employees. Sam Whittington, 15, waited patiently in line, clutching his brother's Arsenal shirt. The Arsenal soccer team was the subject of Hornby's first book, "Fever Pitch," an autobiographical reflection on soccer and the meaning of life. "Nick Hornby is interested in the same things that I am at the moment," Whittington said. "It's sort of like, I wouldn't say a mirror, but a reflection of myself in a way." John Anderson, 28, explained that he prizes Hornby's "uncanny presentation of many aspects of myself. . . . The relationship of the main character to music and how it informs his life. I make lists. We seem to share many of the same loves and many of the same hates." Anderson loves Bruce Springsteen. Hates U2. Hornby sits uncomfortably in a hazy hotel room and lights his fifth cigarette in a row. "I'm quite gloomy," he is saying. "I just am one of those people, vaguely lugubrious." Lugubrious despite generally rosy prospects. He's a regular on the London bestseller charts, and here, his books show up in the top few hundred in sales of the more than 1 million titles sold by Amazon.com -- a hugely respectable showing for a literary author. "High Fidelity" is being made into a movie -- directed by Stephen Frears and starring John Cusack as Rob -- that's due out sometime next year. A few weeks before "About a Boy" was published in America, Robert De Niro's Tribeca Films and New Line Films bought the rights to the book for nearly $3 million. (Hornby's got executive-producer credit for "About a Boy," which "means they have to tell me stuff," he says. "What's Eating Gilbert Grape" screenwriter Peter Hedges is adapting the book for the screen.) Now Hornby is cared for and catered to by what he calls "a staff of thousands" -- accountants, agents, someone to coach him on the Alexander technique for his back trouble, and, of course, a therapist. "Jungian," he says. "I recently started after a long hiatus, and it's depressingly similar to the way it was before." His gloom ebbs and flows. Traveling with his portable CD player helps. The promotional tour for "About a Boy," he says, "would have driven me nuts if I didn't have my Discman with me." The inevitable list, "discs in Nick Hornby's CD booklet": 1. Radiohead 2. Teenage Fan Club 3. The Chemical Brothers 4. The Replacements 5. Bobby Womack 6. Jackson Browne 7. Another Jackson Browne 8. Stevie Wonder's "Songs in the Key of Life" 9. A disc titled "1-0 to the Arsenal," which was a gift from a fan. Hornby discusses these CDs with great enthusiasm, and soon he starts making pronouncements and sounding a lot like one of his characters. The Chemical Brothers, for example, are for "when you really want something to blast your head off, that kind of sonic intensity," he says. "I think there's a place for it in life." But Hornby's interests extend beyond rock, blues, soul and techno. "I didn't really want to write about music very much in 'High Fidelity,' " he says. "I wanted to write about the relationship stuff, and the music stuff is kind of a bit of fun on top, and something to frame it with." "One of the things I wanted to do is write some kind of relationship novel from a guy's point of view because I don't think actually there are very many. There are enormous numbers of books by men, but there's usually a grenade or a terrorist or something if it's a popular novel," he says. "If it's not, then it's incredibly literary, quite often historical, or it's writing about people on the edge, like the Irvine Welsh, Martin Amis stuff. And there didn't seem to be much that I could think of which was about how regular guys felt." Many readers assume that Hornby is much like his characters. While both "Fever Pitch" and "High Fidelity" are written in first person, he says that only the former is "literally autobiographical." Still, Hornby does share traits with his characters. Such as, say, an interest in pop music. "I like writing about popular culture," he says. "It helps to place people. I think you can be really, really accurate if you know enough about it, and place people precisely." Marcus, the 12-year-old misfit of "About a Boy," is plagued by his schoolmates, but eventually he befriends Ellie, who wears black lipstick and stumps him by telling him that the scraggly blond rock star on her sweat shirt is a nonexistent soccer player named Kirk O'Bane. Ellie's devotion to the icon who is actually Nirvana's Kurt Cobain serves as a signifier about her character. "She would think that he was on the edge and wild," explains Hornby. "Other kids wouldn't understand it and they'd be listening to whatever the 1990 equivalent of the Spice Girls was." Will's musical tastes are meant to communicate something to readers as well. Take, for example, his revulsion when Marcus's troubled mother sings "Both Sides Now" with her eyes shut. "Joni Mitchell's someone who has tried to make sense of her own world, sometimes painfully, through song," Hornby says. "There are singer-songwriters who do that, and that would repel somebody like Will because his whole modus vivendi is not to engage, to be ironic and flip." All the music references appeal to a certain kind of reader, Hornby concedes: "People who buy too much music, basically, and have a hard time in their relationships. "The people who are going to get all the references are going to be reasonably cool," he says. "But if you're not cool, it doesn't really matter." "I don't feel hip," he says. Hornby used to be a schoolteacher. His hair is shorn fashionably short, but that only emphasizes the way his ears stick out. They are ruddy and shaped like satellite dishes, and when he stands in the sunlight they glow pink. "It's funny -- at some of the readings people turn up with dyed hair and nose rings and [expletive], and I think I'm out of place," he says. "To to be cool, there usually has to be loads more drug references, loads more violence. What really defines cool now isn't what I'm doing," he says. "I mean, warm is my favorite, and that's kind of the opposite of cool." © Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #405 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?