From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #404 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, October 8 1998 Volume 03 : Number 404 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Nashville@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com Orlando@jmdl.com -Tampa@jmdl.com Sunrise@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- inapropriate covers ["Neil E. Orts" ] Re: NJC New Orleans [Johnwe2@aol.com] Fever [michael paz ] (NJC) Burt n' Elvis [michael paz ] Earplugs needed for this one... [Bounced Message ] Thank-you, a suggestion on the list, and two tix for sale(maybe) [Bounced] Re: Fever [jan gyn ] Re: Joni the performer? [FredNow@aol.com] a brush with greatness Indirect JC [Howard Motyl ] Joni covers [Howard Motyl ] Re: I Love Joni Mitchell! As a PERSON! [Scott Price ] RE: Fever ["Happy The Man" ] Re: Earplugs needed for this one... [Mark Domyancich ] birthday card ["Paul Headon" ] Re: TTT sets UK charts alight! (NOT) ["Philipf" ] Re: New threads - a patchwork of covers (SJC) ["Philipf" ] Re: Paz (NJC) [Mark or Travis ] Re: encores (now NJC) [BarBearUh ] Re: i dontknow where i stand [Mark or Travis ] Re: Joni the performer? [Mark or Travis ] InAproPo Ok I'll Bite [Michael Paz ] Trouble [Michael Paz ] Do be do be do (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Twilight Zone (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: Joni on PPV - a plan [Phyliss Ward ] Tom Waits, Covers [RMuRocks@aol.com] Be... SJC [Kate & CJ ] Re: The frosting of summer lawns [Gellerray@aol.com] Re: Thank-you, a suggestion on the list, and two tix for sale(maybe) ["Ka] Re: [Re: I Love Joni Mitchell! As a PERSON!] [Martin Thomas ] RE: New threads - a patchwork of covers (SJC) [trxschwa ] Re: psychoanalyzing Joni and the JMDL [Gerald Hillman ] Re: Grace of My Heart and certificates [Seanapper@aol.com] NJC!!! Opera and vibrato [longish] ["wallykai" Subject: inapropriate covers Joni's songs for others: Madonna: Blond in the Bleacher or Woman of Heart and Mind Jewel: Chinese Cafe James Brown: Free Man in Paris Michael Jackson: Circle Game Beach Boys: River George Michael: Sex Kills okay, this is getting too easy. Songs for Joni to sing, inappropriately (blending threads, I know . . . ) Nyro's Wedding Bell Blues Sting's Fragile (actually, that one might be interesting) Jim Croce's Roller Derby Queen well, that's harder than the previous category . . . Oh, in ironic counterpoint to her "junkfood for jueveniles" line: C'Mon Get Happy (theme song to the Partridge Family) The Archies Sugar Sugar Songs I'd really like to hear Joni cover: Suzanne Vega's Ironbound/Fancy Poultry Beatles' Long and Winding Road Sting's Island of Souls or When Angels Fall C'Mon Get Happy (okay, yeah, I mean it a little bit . . . ) Of course, I think she's looking to do an album of standards from the 30s and 40s, in which case, Gershwin's They Can't Take that Away from Me, How Long has This Been Going On?, Fascinatin' Rhythm. Porter's Anything Goes, I Love Paris, Night and Day Gross/Lawrence's Tenderly Ellington/Webster's I Got it Bad and That Ain't Good I could do this a while . . . Neil a little bored at work today ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Neil E. Orts * . . . books are my passion, not only writing Sr. Administrative Assoc. * them and every once in a while even reading Office of Graduate Studies * them but just having them and moving them University of Texas Austin * around and feeling the comfort of their Main 101 -- 512/232-3625 * serene presence. neo@mail.utexas.edu * fax: 512/475-8851 * -Frederick Buechner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:31:25 EDT From: Johnwe2@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC New Orleans I now someone on this list lives in New Orleans, I just can't remember who. I am going to New Orleans in Nov and have a couple of questions if anyone can help me out. thanks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 13:19:42 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Fever Happy The Man wrote: " Joni is talking about doing an album of Covers who do you recommend she do." HTM- I would love to hear Joni do Fever. I can think of lots of others, but I think she would do that one great. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 13:31:24 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: (NJC) Burt n' Elvis Julius wrote: "Are you listening to this song on the "Painted From Memory" cd, Michael? If so, how is it?" I like the Elvis and Burt album alot. Elvis sings it quite well, but he does strain to hit some of them notes. The melodies are fab. Is this not out yet? I got a promo of it yesterday. Best, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 15:34:10 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Earplugs needed for this one... From: Green51976@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 16:54:54 EDT I SERIOUSLY NEED TO GET TICKETS FOR THE JONI CONCERT IN MARYLAND AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHO TO CALL OR HOW MUCH THESE TICKETS ARE. MY FRIEND BOUGHT TICKETS FOR US TO SEE HER IN NY, BUT SHE GOT THE CHEAPEST ONES FOR 35 BUCKS AND WE PROBABLY WONT EVEN BE ABLE TO SEE HER AND I AM WICKED PISSED. SO NOW I AM DETERMINED TO SEE HER IN MARYLAND AS WELL, WHERE I WILL AT LEAST BE ABLE TO SEE MORE THAN A DOT WITH A GUITAR FROM THE 7TH ROW IN THE BALCONY. ANYWAY, IF ANYONE CAN HE.LP ME WITH SOME INFORMATION HERE I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE IT. I HAVE BEEN ON THE INTERNET ALL AFTERNOON AND GOT NOWHERE. MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS GREEN51976@AOL.COM. PLEASE HE.LP ME!!! ANDY ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 15:50:32 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Thank-you, a suggestion on the list, and two tix for sale(maybe) From: Chilihead2@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:26:28 EDT Hi Les, This is just to say thank you and thank you for this forum! Your post was forwarded to me. You are a gentleman of the highest caliber. Dear Marian from Vienna ( an angel on this earth which can be verified by anyone who has met her) said it best there are a number of reasons why I've decided to leave, not just the post I made public. I agree with you for the most part about private e-mail and your inability to do anything about it; however, it does allow for a wide avenue for cruelty. With the current code of JMDL ethics, people can hide their nastiness with ease. So, I don't agree with the policy of blasting someone a nastygram and then the recipient's responsibility to keep it private. No apologies. A recipient of a nastygram IMHO has the prerogative to do with it what they will. Nastygrams kept private allow for the exemption of manners that the List is otherwise bound to. My attitude is you if you wouldn't say it on the list, then don't say it all. Otherwise take your chances that it will be posted. As I said before, if I read something I disagree with, I read it. This was a carefully worded suggestion on how to improve the list. I hope that it will be considered. I also think that if Joni were to sign in under a pseudonym and became a lister, she would receive many nastygrams. I think it is best to work out our differences on the list, it helps to keeps manners and reason in tact. Like I said before, Mrs. C and I are still here. You can always e-mail us privately. May you all and (especially Wally B) be well and happy, - -Chili PS. I am not feeling well and facing more surgery (no pity expected). I am thinking that the next best thing after three big back ops is to have my brain put on a petrie dish with electrodes! I have two tix that I may be selling. I will know shortly on the surgery. Please let me know if you are interested. Thank-you and Peace! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 14:52:24 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Fever 'Fever' by JM would be haute. Remember on Sesame Street when the Muppets did 'Fever' and the drummer, Animal, went totally overboard on those drum fills? I think he should be JM's drummer for this. - -jan > I would love to hear Joni do Fever. I can think of lots of others, but >I think she would do that one great. >Michael > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:55:38 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni the performer? In a message dated 10/7/98 1:21:29 PM, PMcfad wrote: >And i've seen her do great performances. Just not sure she fits the lable 'performer'. > As well, not sure she sees herself that way either. So then if she does not see >herself as a performer, does your logic still apply? pj I don't mean performer in the sense of "entertainer" ... I mean the literal act of playing songs in public; whether her identity is as a composer or performer, when she is on stage in front of an audience she is performing. So, yes, the logic still applies. Even if she didn't ever perform live, the analogy is still: painting = composing ... the request for her to play a song is not a request to write it again. Joni's "paint a Starry Night again, man" response misses the point; it was just a glib and facile response which upon closer examination doesn't hold water. As I said before: songs are meant to be played more than once. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 17:15:34 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: a brush with greatness Indirect JC Gang, We had a living legend here at work today. I was in the bathroom, just emerged from the stall and washing my hands when the door opened and Willie Nelson (see, indirect JC) walked in. He said Howdy. I said hi. And he turned to the urinal. And I dried my hands. Howard M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 17:32:57 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Joni covers I know this is a repeat but I love it so much (I thought of it) that I have to repeat it: George Michael--The Last Time I Saw Richard and yes, you can make jokes but I think it would be an amazing rendition. I often sing this, in my fantasy singer mode, as a man singing about another man (duh, Richard) and my favorite verse/line is when Richard marries the figure skater and it all tumbles into itself--this man who has had an affair with another man and denies it all and marries a figure skater and tries to make his life seem so normal by buying her a dishwasher and a coffee percolator and he sits at home drinking, with all the lights left up bright--just so no one will see anything that could be lurking in the shadows. So, you see, when a man sings it about another man, the whole meaning of the song changes--it actually deepens, in a way. It gets gorgeous wings and resonates in completely unexpected ways. Go ahead--look at the lyrics--imagine a gay man singing to another man in denial. What do you hear now? Now imagine it with George Michael's chocolately tones. Mmm. Maybe Joni is really a gay man. Howard M np: Leaving Las Vegas soundtrack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 15:42:01 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: I Love Joni Mitchell! As a PERSON! At 10:20 AM 10/7/98 -0600, Catherine Turley wrote: >we were nobody to Joni and she could not have expected >anything in return but she was gracious and good humored and nice to >us--just because, in my opinion, it was a decent human thing to do. Seems like a good time to go out underneath the streetlight and yell loudly: "Yes I do, I love Joni too!" :-) Catherine, your story about being singled out by Joni and given your seats back is another example of the *person.* How many wonderful stories have been posted here about meeting her? Sorry if I leave anyone out, but there was Les having lunch with her, Wally traveling all up and down the coast with the May tour, Cul riding a ferry with her, and of course the apres-taping meeting with several JMDLers. Did any one of those people go away thinking that she was petty, bitchy, rude, inconsiderate, or any of the other things she's been labeled? My guess is that Joni Mitchell is extremely good at being able to recognize a line of bull. And with that ability is being able to see how truly genuine others are who *don't* have agendas. Recognizing in the credits for TTT the folks at the Daily Grill and the parking lot attendants shows that these people, "ordinary" isn't a good adjective but perhaps "non-celebrity" is, are the ones she appreciates and remembers. The guy playing on the corner for free, the dude pumping gas and singing songs, and so many others, have been her inspiration for many of the songs and stories she's shared with us. Her artistry has touched many of our souls, but some of us have touched hers too. A rich exchange, seems to me. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:42:06 -0500 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: RE: Fever > I would love to hear Joni do Fever. I can think of lots of > others, but > I think she would do that one great. > Beatles—Good Night Queen—Harmony Elton John—Johnny Bailey (or something like that) Peace, CRaig ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 18:02:01 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Earplugs needed for this one... Oh geez... I think some people just join this list to score tickets. How thoughtless! Green51976@aol.com wrote: > I SERIOUSLY NEED TO GET TICKETS FOR THE JONI CONCERT IN MARYLAND AND I HAVE > NO > IDEA WHO TO CALL OR HOW MUCH THESE TICKETS ARE. MY FRIEND ... ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | | | "Every disc a poker chip, every | | song just a one-night stand." | | -Joni Mitchell | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 00:21:55 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: njc sticks and stones > Pontificating, And very well if I may say so. Loved it. > JulieZW - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:48:39 +0100 From: "Paul Headon" Subject: birthday card I'd like to make a suggestion regarding the birthday card. I like the idea of the simple card, etc. Instead of signing the card from the members of the Joni Mitchell Discussion List, can we say, "From the members of the Joni Mitchell Internet Community" and list the URLs of both sites - just like the T-Shirts. Whaddya think? *Great* Idea simple and to the point Best wishes, Paul Headon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:56:22 +0100 From: "Philipf" Subject: Re: TTT sets UK charts alight! (NOT) >From: Jason Maloney: >TTT makes its debut on the UK charts this week at No.57. The same Jason, Any idea how many copies sold ? I'm not that surprised, the level of promo not been great so far. Has it been played on GLR etc. Radio jock Mike Maloney, a known Mitchell fanatic here in Ireland only got his copy today, two weeks after the record went into the shops. Warners (Ireland) you're crap. Philip NP Bacharach/ Costello - Painted from Memory ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 01:06:15 +0100 From: "Philipf" Subject: Re: New threads - a patchwork of covers (SJC) Brian Kennedy - A Case of You this one's real as well I'm afraid, I heard it on the radio earlier. This is the bloke with the boy soprano voice who sings with Van Morrison. Maybe he could help Joni out on the high notes if she decides to do the oldies tour. Philip NP Costello/ Bacharach - What's her name today ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 21:18:54 +0000 From: BarBearUh Subject: Re: ppV Steve Dulson wrote: > would generate about $400,000, of which, I would > guess, the cable companies would take half, leaving > $200,000 for the production company. > > Some of you have had far more TV production > experience than I, but it seems to me that, given > a couple of days to set up, a day of rehearsal, > two days to shoot, five cameras, editing, mixing, > etc., getting it done for under $200K would be > tough. indeed. i'd imagine it's at least double that. it could be as much as $1M, including promotion & so forth. we'll see what the advertising for it turns out to be. the promotion often costs more than the production. > Then > no doubt they will want to market the videos, > which makes me VERY nervous about the on-list > talk of taping, duplicating and distributing > copies of the special. i was having the same thoughts. i remember video distribution being part of the original intention (and i can't imagine it wouldn't be). duplication of this is clearly outside the rules of tape trees and against copyright. i'm sure that won't stop many of us, but keep in mind that if this thing doesn't make back its money, no such production will be undertaken again. just my .02 from this side of the camera. barbara np: elvis & burt, painted from memory ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 18:10:40 -0700 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: Paz (NJC) Leslie Mixon wrote: > > Well Michael: > > After that public display of disinterest (YAWN) I'm going to have to ask > you to > leave this list! > > (Just kidding just kidding just kidding) > > Elvira Gulch Now you listen to me, Elvira Gulch! Just because you own half the internet doesn't mean you own us! For 2 years I've been dying to tell you what I think of you! And now...well...being a Joni cultist I can't say it! Auntie 'M'(ark in Seattle) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 21:25:18 +0000 From: BarBearUh Subject: Re: encores (now NJC) > sherrie.good@chronicle.com wrote: > > > artist do not owe audiences encores. > >>And to expect one, to me, makes them a cheap gift. FredNow wrote: > I really, really agree with this. Most performers these days have an > encore built into their set, as though there is no question that they'll be > asked for one; not because they're so swell headed but because the audience > demands it. Not cool. i'm with you guys on this. i recently saw rickie lee jones and at the end of the show she said that she didn't like to do encores; when she's done, she's done. it was so refreshing. i also saw nick cave & the bad seeds a few weeks ago. he did a couple of encores. the house lights came up, the house music came on and the audience didn't stop howling. he eventually came back out and did another song. that's a well deserved encore for both the audience and the performer. i'm so sick of built-in encores. it's just wasted time having to go through the stupid motions of it. after all, the whole idea is that the performer was just so f*'in fabulous that you can't let them stop - built-in takes away the special-ness of it and fundamentally changes the definition of the word. barbara np: elvis & burt, painted from memory ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 18:31:02 -0700 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: i dontknow where i stand SDWS10@aol.com wrote: > > what does anyone think about barbra's version of I Dont Know Where I > Stand??...by the way.....what is all this hassel in the digest over chilli, or > what ever his stupid name is...??? I for one think Barbra did a great cover of this song. I don't know that I like it better than Joni's but you'd be surprised at just how good it is. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 19:02:37 -0700 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: Joni covers Howard Motyl wrote: > > Maybe Joni is really a gay man. This thought occurred to me long ago. Great observation about LTISR, Howard. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 19:04:30 -0700 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: Joni the performer? FredNow@aol.com wrote: Joni's "paint a Starry Night again, man" > response misses the point; it was just a glib and facile response which upon > closer examination doesn't hold water. As I said before: songs are meant to be > played more than once. I believe Joni prefaced that remark with something like 'That's always been a major *difference* between the performing arts & being a painter.' So I don't think she was really trying to say that singing a song & painting are alike or the same thing. She was just commenting and she chuckled when she said it. *Maybe* (just maybe) she was hinting that she didn't especially *like* having requests shouted at her but I don't think she really meant to say that being asked to sing a song again was the same as being asked to do the same painting again. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 21:07:20 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: InAproPo Ok I'll Bite How about Marilyn Manson doing Blue Oh God I am going to burn in hell for even suggesting that. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 21:11:54 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Trouble That trouble maker bitch Leslie wrote: "After that public display of disinterest (YAWN) I'm going to have to ask you to leave this list!" Thanks Leslie, I deserved that. I do have to say though; i don't know if it's my Latino heritage or if this list is just a tad bland with out the chili seasoning. Know what I mean? Love Michael P.S. If you were a man you would just be a trouble maker man. lol ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 21:27:49 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Do be do be do (NJC) John Lasater wrote: "Note to Michael Paz: Can't get "But two people/ living in Toledo/ know that their name/ hasn't traveled very well" out of my head.)" Hi John- Sorry if my extended bandwidth caused you any melodic discomfort. Thank goodness it wasn't one of those lovely NIN melodies. Have you got a VG-8 yet? Where are the rest of the pictures from the party dawling?? Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 21:32:37 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Twilight Zone (NJC) Julie wrote: "The 50 or so main posters on the jmdl are on display day after day/year after year, as hundreds of people act as voyeurs. It's not unlike watching characters in a soap when you think about it. " Julie- That's really scary! Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 19:23:36 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Joni on PPV - a plan Party planning in the works at the Ward household in Bakersfield, CA. Come one, come all! email me privately if you'd like to join the festivities! Cblakey5@aol.com wrote: > I had a thought. Perhaps some folks capable of receiving the PPV might want > to throw a little regional get-together, tape and share the cost of receiving > the program. I don't have the option of receiving the PPV, but I'd be willing > to share the $ and the fun. Any interest out there in Joniland...? > > Carole - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:42:28 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Tom Waits, Covers Hey all, To further pontificate on the Tom Waits comments; I was also instantly surprised at a Tom Waits cover of ANYTHING from HOSL as being "inappropriate". Waits' style is so jazz-influenced, I'd love to hear him cover that whole record with it's jazz overtones. Especially tasy would be his sinister voice on "The Jungle Line". He's almost the male version of Joni for me; so many of his songs are more "acted" than "sung" (Step Right Up, Frank's Wild Years, Christmas Card From A Hooker in Minneapolis), and he can make you laugh out loud or bring you to tears like in "A Soldier's Things". And covers? Check out his version of "A Place for Us" from West Side Story - the most emotional version of that song I've ever heard! Anyway, enough said on that front, if there was an inappropriate song for him to do, maybe "Woman of Heart and Mind", simply because he's not female, but I'll bet he could sell that one too! I guess I extend a lot of liberties on covers. Sometimes artists I may not be crazy about can do a song I like and it's cool. It's easy to think that anything that Michael Bolton, Yanni, or Celine Dion is going to suck, but I think that's really unfair to the artist in question. My favorites on Tribute discs are rarely the ones I think I'm going to like the best. The Cure's version of "Purple Haze"? Love it. The Stranglers doing a cover of "Walk On By"? Awesome! Shonen Knife covering "Top of The World" on "If I Were A Carpenter" Yippee, it's great! My favorite covers album would have to be "Beat The Retreat" with solid covers of Richard Thompson stuff. (At least until the Joni Trib comes out, that is). I guess my point is, for those of you who haven't deleted or scrolled me away by now, is that Joni's songs are great, and I would delight in hearing what Steely Dan, Gino Vanelli, The Ramones, and back-from-the-dead Bing Crosby could bring to them. My .02 for tonight - love & peace to all PS: I've got a parody in my head, hopefully tomorrow I can put the finish on it and send it along... Bob M. in a soggy Greenville,SC NP: Summertime by Miles Davis and Gil Evans ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:33:37 -0400 From: Kate & CJ Subject: Be... SJC I am a mostly lurking JMDL digester - and mostly because it takes me so long to wade thru, I'm too exhausted to reply. I agree with you JulieZW - I feel like I know you due to your frequent and entertaining posts. With that said, I'll be away for the weekend and hope that there's at most one-a-day digests - or how about everyone take the weekend off and reflect on how we should all strive for goodness, tolerance and peace in our lives - oh, never mind. Let's just be who we are...like Joni does. Anxiously awaiting 11/1, CJ np: snoring, nice kitty, kitty ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:47:50 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: The frosting of summer lawns lovely post chili--i especially the quote by tennesse. it's so true--that is how i have lived my life; that is how i feel. anyway, you know what--i missed all the hubbub--for the most part--what started (i guess) your and davidmarine's spat...i don't want to know what you guys said but, rather, what you said (or felt or think) about joni--i mean, what did she say that so disappointed you? p.s. i have been having major problems--well, sometimes major, other times amused--with her arrogance for awhile...my turning point was an article in details about a year and a half ago--but, for the record, i heard she was very upset by the piece herself ( i heard this from a reliable source--the woman who signed her to her book contract--which maybe i shouldn't post!)-- i don't know if that's cuz she was sorry she said the things she did (and got "caught") or if they were framed in such a way as to make her sound horrible when she is not. The context--and the editing thang. It's something to think about... raymond ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:39:42 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Thank-you, a suggestion on the list, and two tix for sale(maybe) It seems like Chili and others wish to debate this issue further. O.K. I'll bite. (Sorry to those who are fed up with this - feel free to delete). Chili wrote about Les's position that he has no jurisdiction over private email: >I agree with you for the most part about private e-mail and your inability >to do anything about it; however, it does allow for a wide avenue for >cruelty. Yes, nasty private email is cruel, but what can Les do realistically if he literally and legally has no jurisdiction over it, other than commiserate with the injured party? (Anyone interested in the law regarding mail communications with regard to free speech, etc., please email me privately for general information). >With the current code of JMDL ethics, people can hide their nastiness >with ease. Yes, and we've had a few come through the list who have done that to people. I also received a number of nasty and bizarre private emails when I joined the list. I was advised to "just delete". > So, I don't agree with the policy of blasting someone a nastygram and >then the recipient's responsibility to keep it private. No apologies. A >recipient of a nastygram IMHO has the prerogative to do with it what they >will. Nastygrams kept private allow for the exemption of manners that the >List is otherwise bound to. My attitude is you if you wouldn't say it on the >list, then don't say it all. Otherwise take your chances that it will be >posted. Doesn't that put the collective membership in the position of being judge and jury for a private dispute? Is that really, truly what we want to do here on a discussion list? Something I may interpret as nasty, another person may see nothing wrong with. Something I may see as innocent could be interpreted as filled with nasty intent by someone else. Pretty soon, several people are analyzing and debating offlist as to who was wrong, who was right. What if both parties to the dispute are friends of yours? Pretty soon, you are engaged in a dispute with your friend over the dispute put up on the open list for rumination and conjecture. Do we really want this? No one will gain from this, believe me, and there will be no winners, only a corrosive residue of hurt feelings and resentment. As awful as it may feel to have to go one on one privately with a fellow list member, to bring it on the open list seems to me to just multiply the hurt and pain 500-fold. Sorry to the list for this - I just had to say it. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: 7 Oct 98 22:11:36 MDT From: Martin Thomas Subject: Re: [Re: I Love Joni Mitchell! As a PERSON!] Does anyone know about the Joni Mitchell concert in Toronto? I heard its for the 29th. Will she be doing something with MuchMusic again? I would do anything to see her for as long as she's here! My life will finally be complete. Martin ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:12:25 -0400 From: trxschwa Subject: RE: Joni covers >George Michael--The Last Time I Saw Richard howard, this is a profound insight. it's a story that has been the basis for a bunch of gay lit, central as well as sidelines, for the very real reason that it has happened so many times. really takes the song to another lever. thanks, patrick and, george michael, when he finally came out, wanted to say to all of his female fans that he really meant it when he sang to them (which is really sweet, and probably truthful). but if he starts singing love songs without all that masking? sublime. and universal, to those with ears to hear. np - mark isham - blue sun ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:12:34 -0400 From: trxschwa Subject: RE: New threads - a patchwork of covers (SJC) >Brian Kennedy - A Case of You >this one's real as well I'm afraid man, i'd love to hear this. i loved brian kennedy's voice through three van shows in la. haven't found a single recording in ny yet (haven't looked THAT hard) i'll bet joni likes his voice, too, his technique is similar to mike mcdonald's and she loves him. patrick np - mark isham - blue sun ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:12:40 -0400 From: trxschwa Subject: RE: i dont know where i stand another amen for barbra's version. it's off what will probably always be my favorite album of hers (i only own 4 or so). until i heard 'songbird', i kind of of thought of her as that irritating belter so killingly called 'barbra strident' by mad magazine, my no. 1 culcha arbitah. songbird, which opens with a completely winning version of 'tomorrow' from annie, for chrissakes, is a special favorite of mine. i'd forgotten that joni wrote 'where i stand' until i bought clouds, about 3 years ago. and jerry wrote np: Bette Midler - Bathhouse Betty which in its 5th week in the charts is at 32 and climbing. and it's bringing me a lot of joy these days. not really into the ballads yet, though there's a pretty devastating letter to a daughter given up for adoption. what's killing me are the great novelty songs, like the house bounce 'i'm beautiful', an almost new-jack innuendo called 'big socks'. and she does a sweet version of 'i sold my heart to the junkman' which she used to toss off as comedy in '76. i'm enjoying this album more thoroughly than i've enjoyed a bette album in years. and feeling a little fellowship with jerry, when i listen... patrick np - isham - blue sun ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:30:19 -0500 From: Gerald Hillman Subject: Re: psychoanalyzing Joni and the JMDL Great post! I wonder about touring/promoting her paintings. Haven't we heard her say something to the effect that her painting is more for herself; for art's sake? She's admitted (thinking of Gabereau interview) to not liking the promotion aspect of her work. She likes the creative aspect. Well, don't we all? I hear the phrases, "I'm so sick of this game... Here's to you... " It's like she's riding off into the sunset. Yet, she recently stated that was her intention before discovering the VG-8. So... maybe she will, maybe she won't. Regardless, I don't think she ever has, or ever will have, a ring in her nose. My 3 faves from TTT: No Apologies ("Freddy said that Juan thinks I think he's the devil" -just love the way that rolls), Harlem in Havana, TTT. Found this from vg-8.com: " Heavy metal mixed with brass, guitar generated marimbas, Afro-Cuban and swing rhythms: all indicatious are that Mitchell's next creation, slated for an early '97 release, will be a real ear-opener and a direct challenge to our settled perceptions of the music of Joni Mitchell." Early 97 indeed. Gerald ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 22:18:47 -0700 From: Don Sloan Subject: RE: Joni on PPV? I'm wondering if there will be a CD of the concert? This would also generate pay-back revenue. Don Steve Doulson wrote: > how many > people are going to cough up $39.95 to watch Joni? > 1,000? 5,000? 10,000? > > If 10,000 people did (highly unlikely, IMHO) it > would generate about $400,000, of which, I would > guess, the cable companies would take half, leaving > $200,000 for the production company. > > Some of you have had far more TV production > experience than I, but it seems to me that, given > a couple of days to set up, a day of rehearsal, > two days to shoot, five cameras, editing, mixing, > etc., getting it done for under $200K would be > tough. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 01:20:08 EDT From: Seanapper@aol.com Subject: Re: Grace of My Heart and certificates Julius wrote: "I read an interview with Costello this Sunday. Interesting that Burt Bacharach and Elvis decided to do this cd together after recording "God Give Me Strength" for the "Grace of My Heart" movie soundtrack. The same movie for which Joni wrote "Man From Mars." Just thought I'd mention that. Anyone seen the movie?" ***** Hi Julius. I saw the movie for the first time just a couple of weeks ago (on video). Of course, the only reason I watched it was because of the Man From Mars track in it; I had to see how it was used in the movie. My expectations were minimal, but I actually loved it! I'd have to describe the movie with words like "cute" or "heart warming," which usually describe the kind of movies I hate. But it was quite enjoyable and had a little something for everyone in it: comedy, drama, nostalgia, sex, loss, and plenty of music. It's about a songwriter who really wants to be a singer-songwriter. I even had to order the soundtrack and use up one of those $10 MusicBlvd certificates. Speaking of which...thanks to all who have posted info about the certificates. But I was wondering... how did you find out about the certificates in the first place? Does MusicBlvd email the info to you or what? (I love a good bargain.) Neil in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 02:33:15 -0300 From: "wallykai" Subject: NJC!!! Opera and vibrato [longish] - -----Original Message----- De: Thomas Ross Para: joni@smoe.org Fecha: miércoles 7 de octubre de 1998 7:03 Asunto: folk opera (SJC) >I take the operatic singing style to be designed to project in a theater >without amplification. . . but yes something's out of whack with certain >manners, esp the wide vibrato which masks outoftuneness. of course certain >singers are breathtaking anyway. mirella freni's knocked me out. and >what's her name. . .you know, the new young Italian. . . I want to take exception to the frequent comments on the oft-maligned vibrato, which, by the way, is not exclusively operatic. First off, I believe that most people that confess their inability to like opera because singers use vibrato are simply lazy and trying to find excuses not to explore new fields. This is not directly about Thomas Ross's post, although this the second time this week [and the nth time in the last two years] that people have spoken disparagingly of opera without exhibiting much knowledge of or experience in the subject. Opera was always, at least until Meyerbeer, a folk event. People gathered for the sheer joy of hearing the human voice achieve the impossible, and for a good laugh or a big boo hoo too. Even today, one doesn't need to go to a secluded Italian village to enjoy opera. [By the way, opera is not exclusively Italian.] The idea that opera is entertainment for the elite is wrong. There are seven opera houses in my city, and it's the common folks that stand in line to get seats for an evening of glorious music and cathartic experiences. As to vibrato, well, to quote John Ardoin "vibrato is the lifeblood of a voice as it is of a string player's sound. It is that slight fluctuation of pitch just above and below the core of a note that lends it color and life. Just where vibrato ends, or becomes excessive, and a wobble begins depends on the individual listener." I have enormous wobble tolerance when it comes to Slavic\Eastern European voices and none whatsoever for singers that do repertories that call for "straight" voices. Emma Kirkby and Nancy Argenta are my two of my favorite vibrato-less voices. A final thought on opera and opera singers. Sound emission requires an extraordinary amount of energy, which is obtained from pulmonic air and muscular action. Until you've been a few [or not so few sometimes] feet away from a dramatic soprano, you'll never know what it means to have your skull literally vibrate to the acoustic energy coming from the singers chest. A couple of years ago, I was sitting 20 feet away from Dame Gwyneth Jones as she began her concert in Buenos Aires. This then 62 year-old woman, "an unbridled force of nature" as Roberto once put it, open her mouth and out came this hurricane of sound and, yes, much, much vibrato. My eyes began to fill with tears, partly because of the emotion of hearing Gwyneth, but most of all because of the acoustic phenomenon that was taking place in my cranium: my head had been so affected by resonance that my eyes began to tear as a form of self-defense! Needless to say, this was an unamplified event. Opera is extreme, it is dangerous. Unlike other musicians, opera singers wake up every morning wondering if their instrument is still there! Respectable opera singers [the only ones worth listening to and worshipping, in any case] go out on a tightrope every evening with no net to catch them. They are our martyrs: they take a leap into the unknown every minute for our pleasure and many times they fall and die. WallyK ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #404 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?