From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #402 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 7 1998 Volume 03 : Number 402 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Nashville@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com Orlando@jmdl.com -Tampa@jmdl.com Sunrise@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Not Who Covers Joni but who does Joni Cover ["Happy The Man" ] Re: New threads - a patchwork of covers (SJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: New threads - a patchwork of covers (SJC) ["Kakki" ] MOJO List [TerryM2442@aol.com] old material [Bounced Message ] Yawn--- :-O [Michael Paz ] Re: Re: New threads - a patchwork of covers (SJC) [Marilune@aol.com] Komrade Kakki [Michael Paz ] Re: Yawn--- :-O [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Grace 'O My Heart [JRMCo1@aol.com] Her Old Songs Are A Part of Her [Leslie Mixon ] Nana and Joni [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ] Nasty Joni Comments [Evan + Vanessa Thomson ] Re: Re: New threads - a patchwork of covers (SJC) ["Marsha" ] Re: JMDL Digest V3 #400 & 401 [Westcoat98@aol.com] Re: Transcript of Joni talking about "Two Grey Rooms" [Gellerray@aol.com] Re: pay per view performance (PPVP!) [ginny ] listening to mingus [JAWebster2@aol.com] Re: Did Joni not Yoko cause Beatles split ? [Gellerray@aol.com] Greg Leisz [Seanapper@aol.com] Two Grey Rooms [Seanapper@aol.com] inappropriate covers [JAWebster2@aol.com] Greg Leisz ["Eric G. Postel" ] Re: Joni & encores [FredNow@aol.com] What does this remind you of? [Evian ] patchwork of covers [Evian ] Re: Joni the oldies wurlitzer [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Joni the oldies wurlitzer [IVPAUL42@aol.com] off night backstreet and memory lane (sorta JC???) [Evian Subject: Not Who Covers Joni but who does Joni Cover Joni is talking about doing an album of Covers who do you recommend she do. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:41:57 -0400 (EDT) From: picard3@webtv.net (Sherelle Smith) Subject: Catching up (SJC) Hi everyone! What have I missed? Chili leaving? Now I must go through my twenty digests to catch up and find out what is happening. I bought TTT and guess what? My husband loves it! He asked me to make a tape of the cd so we could listen to it in the car on the way to work. (sorry, I couldn't afford to buy both) He has a very unique and fresh perspective on the Joni he hears on TTT. I was dumbfounded. The only song of hers he's ever liked was Shadows and Light. I am always so overjoyed when someone genuinely begins to appreciate Joni. His ear is tuned more towards her music than her lyrics but don't worry, I'm working on him! A short note of good news: Today I was promoted in my new career to a project supervisor! I am still in shock! This is a second chance dream come true for me! See what happens when Joni starts touring? : ) Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:41:52 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: New threads - a patchwork of covers (SJC) - -----Original Message----- From: Deb Messling To: joni@smoe.org Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 9:53 PM Subject: Re: New threads - a patchwork of covers (SJC) David wants us to be outrageous, and I'll bite too... >> how about suggesting the most >> inappropriate artists to cover Joni songs? Deb offers: >William Shatner, A Case of You >Mariah Carey, Sisotowbell Lane I offer: Ol' Dirty Bastard doing Lesson in Survival ("Oh baby, I can't seem to make it with you socially, there's this reef around me...") Andy Williams doing Moon at the Window intertwined with Moon River... stop me now, Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:43:35 EDT From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: Alleged comments by Jackson Browne Kenny - No Apologies necessary. :) Thanks for the articles info...I gotta check it out. well, you know how these spats between old lovers can be....very interesting! Sincerely, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:40:13 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Song To A Seagull I always love it when the Song To A Seagull controversy comes up around here! It's becoming like a JMDL tradition. Thanks simon for posting all the info on it. STAS is my fav Joni album after For The Roses, because it was her first one and has much emotional imprint on my heart. But I'd thought that Jerry Notaro had finally answered the question conclusively when he found it listed in the Library of Congress or something that indeed STAS is the official title? Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:46:31 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: New threads - a patchwork of covers (SJC) In a message dated 10/6/98 10:27:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hessj@ix.netcom.com writes: << > how about suggesting the most >inappropriate artists to cover Joni songs? >> "Amelia" in rap by LL Cool J ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:46:11 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: New threads - a patchwork of covers (SJC) >>> how about suggesting the most >>> inappropriate artists to cover Joni songs? Bob Dylan - I Don't Know Where I stand Van Morrison - Marcie Johnny Mathis - Lead Balloon Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:54:12 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: MOJO List Hi, Sorry if it's already been mentioned, but MOJO mag listed Joni as one of the best 100 singers of all time. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 21:03:12 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: old material From: "Dave Doherty" Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:55:30 -0400 Hi all, I would love to see Joni tour again on her own, taking with her the dulcimer and the piano,and playing 2 hours plus. I think then she would be more likely to take us back and treat us to some older classics like, ''For free'' ''Case of you'' The last time i saw Richard'' my favourites. I remember in London in 1983 she did a brilliant version of ''For Free'' on her large white Gibson guitar,what a thrill that was. See you all in Toronto. ''I am as constant as a northern star'' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 22:05:07 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Yawn--- :-O Yawn! OH excuse ME! Michael NP-Burt and Elvis-What's Her Name Today ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 23:07:01 EDT From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: New threads - a patchwork of covers (SJC) In a message dated 10/6/98 7:56:10 PM, IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: ><< > > how about suggesting the most > >inappropriate artists to cover Joni songs? > > >> >"Amelia" in rap by LL Cool J "Case of You" by Fugazi "Ladies of the Canyon" by The Foo Fighters "Hejira" by the Beastie Boys "Man From Mars" by Harvey Danger - -mariana NP: Liz Phair, -Exile in Guyville- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 22:09:48 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Komrade Kakki Komrade Kakki- You deserve 50 lashes with an al dente noodle, from Maximo's, for such an outrageous display. Still choking and rolling on the carpet, Michael NP-God Give Me Strength-Burt and Elvis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 23:11:26 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Yawn--- :-O In a message dated 10/6/98 11:07:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << Yawn! OH excuse ME! Michael >> Well, I was going to write a follow up to my previous post, but that's it. Forget it; I'm going to go offline and stew in my room! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 23:38:09 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Grace 'O My Heart michaelpaz writes: << NP-God Give Me Strength-Burt and Elvis >> Are you listening to this song on the "Painted From Memory" cd, Michael? If so, how is it? I read an interview with Costello this Sunday. Interesting that Burt Bacharach and Elvis decided to do this cd together after recording "God Give Me Strength" for the "Grace of My Heart" movie soundtrack. The same movie for which Joni wrote "Man From Mars." Just thought I'd mention that. Anyone seen the movie? - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 20:57:15 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Her Old Songs Are A Part of Her Does this sound familiar? "I guess I seem ungrateful with my teeth sunk in the hand that brings me things I really can't give up just yet Now I sit up here, the critic And they introduce some band But they seem so much confetti Looking at them on my TV set Oh the power and the glory Just when you're getting a taste for worship They start bringing out the hammers, and the boards and the nails..." Leslie Steve Mixon http://www.cruzio.com/~stevem ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 13:49:27 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Nana and Joni I just discovered something truly horrific but amusing in a highly kitsch way, for me :-) Nana Mouskouri doing "Both Sides Now" in French. Now, her voice is lovely but I just found it doesn't grab me and that for me it's almost like Demis Roussos doing "Big Yellow Taxi" in Arabic! Very amusing!! So if anyone's interested in having a listen it's on "The Delightful Nana Mouskouri" It's Track 5 and called, "Je n'ai rien apris" (form Both Sides Now) (Mitchell/Marnay) Perhaps Simon could give more information, but I always assumed that Joni wrote the song or is Marnay alluding to the changes made to make it Nana friendly? Vanessa. P.S. Now, what I would interesting is a 'performance' artist or somebody from a different discipline to 'cover' her work. Like Tadashi Suzuki (Japanese Theatrical Performer... sort of), reworking Mingus perhaps and transposing it into a contemporary, Japanese Art form!? Now, -that- would intrigue me. The unexpected. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 14:02:59 +1000 From: Evan + Vanessa Thomson Subject: Nasty Joni Comments What are the ramifications of slurring somebody in public? I mean, has she had fallout in regards to her 'Sheryl Crowe' denunciations? How do you precede when you 'meet' these people? I mean, do you play nice, pretend you didn't say it and hope it doesn't get mentioned during small talk? I'm not saying that Joni won't 'stand' by her comments but it is conceivably easier to deride somebody in print than it is in person and to them? As a fan, how does it affect you? I know that if by some chance I released an album, gained some success and cited some influences, that if any of my idols turned around and just slammed me that I would be devastated. I just wonder if she's had any 'peers' who have ostracized her for her seemingly harsh criticisms. More often than not, her peers appear to 'revere' and 'admire' her and the only 'real' backlash Joni seems to incur is 'media' and 'public'? I admit, I am being rather simplistic in addressing these questions but I don't like to send overly-long posts. I am also much more interested in 'our' perspective as fans and public on this. So, I don't presume to judge what she says; but I am interested in perhaps how her peers have responded or even the artisits themselves? What do you say to personal attacks? I don't think there is anything you could say... but as an artist who strives for enlightenment, honesty, depth, respect and even acceptance... for her to be 'overly harsh of other's work seems... cruel. As other have said, just my 2c worth. Vanessa. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:00:47 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: Re: New threads - a patchwork of covers (SJC) - -----Original Message----- From: Marilune@aol.com To: IVPAUL42@aol.com ; owner-joni@smoe.org ; hessj@ix.netcom.com ; joni@smoe.org Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 11:08 PM Subject: Re: Re: New threads - a patchwork of covers (SJC) >> > how about suggesting the most >> >inappropriate artists to cover Joni songs? Phyllis Diller- Happiness is the Best Facelift Sigfreid and Roy- Taming the Tiger Pamela Anderson and Tommy Lee- Don't Interrupt the Sorrow ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 00:28:02 +0000 From: BarBearUh Subject: Re: patchwork of covers David Mascall wrote: > inappropriate artists to cover Joni songs? > > Tom Waits - the BoHo Dance actually, i think that would be a great combo. imagine the vocal through the bullhorn, and some clanking in the background. i'd like it at least. here's my suggestion: helen reddy - hissing of summer lawns barbara np: soul coughing, el something? (it's downstairs and it's great) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:20:34 EDT From: Westcoat98@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V3 #400 & 401 Hi, When I downloaded 400 and 401, they came through only as code. I didn't do anything differently, and all the other lists have come through quite well. Any possibility of a second try? Thanks, Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:19:53 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: Transcript of Joni talking about "Two Grey Rooms" beautiful. just beautiful. isn't it? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 21:29:08 -0700 From: ginny Subject: Re: pay per view performance (PPVP!) I will be taping the show on beta, for as many copies as I wish. I own a video production company. Please let me know who would like a tape. I have been on the list for a long time, but still do not understand the tape tree system. If we can help with that, too -- let me know. Ginny ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:26:14 EDT From: JAWebster2@aol.com Subject: listening to mingus Mark Domyancich wrote: >>NP-Wolf That Lives In Lindsey (I think I'm the only one who listens to Mingus these days!) :-)<< Naw - there's at least one other. Listened to Mingus this weekend while painting our back bedroom blue. Maybe I should have listened to Hejira instead ("I've got a blue hotel room..."). Speaking of Mingus, I met Sue Mingus last year, and was totally taken aback at how familiar her voice sunded to me. I made her say: "Play that weird minor chord!", and it gave me chills! She's a trip, by the way! jessica (who can't get "I'm up to my neck in alligators..." out of my head!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:43:58 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: Did Joni not Yoko cause Beatles split ? what did john say for god's sake?!!! i need to know! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 01:07:07 EDT From: Seanapper@aol.com Subject: Greg Leisz David Mascall wrote: "On another tack, can anyone direct me to any more recorded music by the pedal steel player on TTT - he does a cracking job. The part on "No apologies" is magnificent!" He has also played on some of k.d. lang's albums. Neil in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 01:28:54 EDT From: Seanapper@aol.com Subject: Two Grey Rooms SDWS10@aol.com wrote: "hello folks, im new to this list and to computers...so plz be patient....i have a nagging question that has been on me for a few years now.....not to distract from all the excitment of TTT.....buuuuut.....who is Joni speaking to in TWO GREY ROOMS???" **** Welcome to the list! I think your question has already been answered, but there is also a brief explanation of the song on the joni homepage: www.jonimitchell.com. Go to the "Bio" section, and from there go to "Return to Roots (part 1). Beautiful song, isn't it? Neil in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:42:48 EDT From: JAWebster2@aol.com Subject: inappropriate covers > how about suggesting the most >inappropriate artists to cover Joni songs? Beastie Boys - "A Case Of You" Marilyn Manson - "Ladies of the Canyon" Squirrel Nut Zippers - "Big Yellow Taxi" (my husband came up with this one) Puff Daddy - "For Free" I'm out. jessica ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 01:54:16 -0400 From: "Eric G. Postel" Subject: Greg Leisz Greg plays on and produced Dave Alvin's latest record. He also plays in Dave's band. He was here in Madison in July. The band has just announced another entire round of dates for this fall. They are quite good -- I recommend seeing them. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 01:56:16 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & encores sherrie.good@chronicle.com wrote: >>This is to say, as in any case, artist do not owe audiences encores. >>And to expect one, to me, makes them a cheap gift. I really, really agree with this. Most performers these days have an encore built into their set, as though there is no question that they'll be asked for one; not because they're so swell headed but because the audience demands it. Not cool. But if Joni truly withheld an encore for the sole reason that one person in 400 yawned, that's too much like punishing the whole class because one kid screws up, which I've hated ever since I was in that class. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 00:21:43 -0600 From: Evian Subject: What does this remind you of? > Have you ever heard a song that reminds you of a > totally unrelated song by someone else. > Ken, I said it before in my review of TTT, and for some reason, I still think it is true.. "Man From Mars" reminds me of Sinead O'Conner's remake of "Sucess has made a failure of our Home"... and I really have no idea why! Evian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 00:23:23 -0600 From: Evian Subject: patchwork of covers how about suggesting the most >inappropriate artists to cover Joni songs? How about the Cure doing "Morning Morgantown"? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 02:28:49 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni the oldies wurlitzer "Philipf" wrote: >>James Taylor is stuck in 1970's timewarp. I saw him on telly last >> year and it was virtually the same concert I witnessed in '72. Philip, you may have misunderstood my point, which was that painting and performing are not analogous activities; Joni's comment is based on faulty logic and doesn't hold water. A painting is to a song, not to a singer; there is no singer in painting -- the painter is the composer of the song. When someone shouts out a request for an old favorite, it is not a request for her to paint another song exactly like it, which would be the result of Joni's retort. Individual musical compositions, songs, are meant to be performed over and over. The art of doing so lies in the ability to make each performance new and real, which is precisely what James Taylor has done through the years. He is not stuck in a 70s timewarp simply because he still sings Fire And Rain. Why would anyone still sing Gershwin's Someone To Watch Over Me? Because if it ever was once good, it's still good. Philip, you may not particularly care for James' music, which, of course, is cool, but please don't let that be confused with thinking that he's stuck in the past and not creating new and vital work; anyone who really knows and loves James' work knows that that is not true. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 02:35:15 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni the oldies wurlitzer In a message dated 10/7/98 2:31:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FredNow@aol.com writes: << Individual musical compositions, songs, are meant to be performed over and over. The art of doing so lies in the ability to make each performance new and real, which is precisely what James Taylor has done through the years. >> Could that be why Joni resisted the tag of folk singer, because what you describe above is pretty much the definition of folk music, is it not? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 00:41:46 -0600 From: Evian Subject: off night backstreet and memory lane (sorta JC???) Ok, this post will probably make no sense, since I am not even sure what I am trying to say -- I warn you now.. delete! ;) Anyway, in my infinite stupidity, I just realized that DJRD was released in 77, not 79 as I had thought for some reason. Every time I listen to HOSL, I am so amazed that this album came out in 75... it just seems way too daring and perfect to be released then.. just doesn't fit with my preconeived notions of the music scene in 75. Sooooo, I am even more amazed that DJRD was released in 77... if it was released in 79 like I had thought, it would seem to fit the time better, but 77??? wow, Joni was ahead of her time again with that album! Anyway, I just wanted to comment on "Off Night Backstreet". I am not sure about all of you, but every song I know holds a place in my memory, and I end up usually taken back to the time I first heard it, or it was popular, or whatever. For instance, when I listen to new wave and funk, I am taken back to grade 8 and 9, can still imagine my friends and I with our bizarre fashion, etc. and the gross smell that lingered in my old junior high. When I listen to goth and industrial, I am taken back to highschool, the whole "dressing in black" look, blah blah blah. So, its so odd that I have formed this "feeling" of 1977 for Off night backstreet. I was in grade one in 77, and my records consisted of... hmmm... disco anthologies, maybe Leo Sayer (or was that grade 2), etc. But, when I listen to Off night backstreet now, it is like I am taken back in time, and it is almost like I have memories to that song from 77, which of course I don't. I, for some reason, seem to play DJRD solely at night, and every time I get to Off night backstreet, I just get this feeling.... it is summer, I am living in B.C. still, I am sitting at night in my neighbor's pool, and I see my sisters with their long hair, wide-legged jeans, smelling the patchouli that was oh-so-popular with them then. Yep, its weird, I know.... Lol, believe me, I find this as strange as you probably do, and it is really interesting to me since most of Joni's music (not counting DED) is timeless to me, and I don't really "float" down memory lane when I listen to it. Why this song wasn't a single in 77, I will never know... So, do you all ever get these "feelings" for songs that you know you didn't know at the time, but still somehow make you recall the whole era? Good Lord, this probably sounds totally bizarre, so I will quit while I am ahead;) Cheers, Evian NP: "Life in a Northern Town" -- Dream Academy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 02:57:25 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni the oldies wurlitzer In a message dated 10/7/98 1:35:15 AM, IVPAUL42 wrote: >In a message dated 10/7/98 2:31:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FredNow@aol.com writes: > >>Individual musical compositions, songs, are meant to be performed over >>and over. The art of doing so lies in the ability to make each performance new >>and real, which is precisely what James Taylor has done through the years.>> > >Could that be why Joni resisted the tag of folk singer, because what you describe >above is pretty much the definition of folk music, is it not? More than that, it's the definition of any interpretive performance based art: classical music, folk, jazz, etc. but also dance and theater. - -Fred ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #402 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?