From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #400 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, October 6 1998 Volume 03 : Number 400 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Nashville@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com Orlando@jmdl.com -Tampa@jmdl.com Sunrise@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Jukebox Joni; TTT Acclaim [FredNow@aol.com] Sandboxes (NJC) [Evian ] Re: one last post on the whole arrogance thang! ["Deb Messling" ] Re: one last post on the whole arrogance thang! [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joni on Probation [Cblakey5@aol.com] Re: Alleged comments by Jackson Browne [Dreamzvill@aol.com] JM? STAS? [Robert Holliston ] Re: Joni & encores [Dreamzvill@aol.com] New York Times article [jw1327 ] Re: Chili/David/leaving (NJC) [Dreamzvill@aol.com] Re: Joni on Probation [Dreamzvill@aol.com] Joni quoted in TIme ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Re: Joni on Probation ["M & C Urbanski" ] TTT sets UK charts alight! (NOT) [Jason Maloney ] Re: JM? STAS? ["Deb Messling" ] Re: (NJC) Gershwin/Porgy and Bess [Mark or Travis ] Re: PGH Gazette, Kurt Cobain - SJC [PMcfad@aol.com] njc Sticks and stones ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Re: Good-bye from Chili! [ginny ] Salon magazine review [Michael Yarbrough ] Re: Reprise and jonimitchell.com [Gellerray@aol.com] Re: JM? STAS? ["Marsha" ] Re: TTT/Spell Catcher glitch (NJC) ["Marsha" ] Re: JM? STAS? ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: Everyone hates everyone...and I hate me [jan gyn ] Knit a sweater....(VJC - i.e. vestigial Joni Content) [Bounced Message ] strange distortion etc on TTT [Bounced Message ] Complaints about Joni [Bounced Message ] Re: Joni on Probation [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: JM? STAS? [Brian Gross ] Did Joni not Yoko cause Beatles split ? ["Philipf" ] RE: a coupla things NJC ["Happy The Man" ] Re: a coupla things NJC ["Philipf" ] RE: Joni on Probation ["Happy The Man" ] FLAMES ON CHILIS MAKE KAY HOT UNDER COLLAR (NJC) ["Kay Ashley" ] Re: Chili/David (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Jazz does Joni [Chris Kornmann ] Lost Joni mail [daricem@sfpl.lib.ca.us] Borders stocking policy (JC) [Dmascall@aol.com] Surviving A Crisis (NJC) ["Don Rowe" ] Re: a coupla things NJC [IVPAUL42@aol.com] David Marine, Kakki ["wallykai" ] Re: a coupla things NJC [catman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 03:17:48 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Jukebox Joni; TTT Acclaim RickieLee1@aol.com >>(is james taylor some sort of jukebox because he came out and sang >>what his fans most wanted to hear? james knows how to please his >>audience and i doubt if he feels compromised by doing so...) Agreed. Not only does James breathe new life into the oldest of songs night after night, he continues to produce new and substantial work through the years. He is both brilliant composer and brilliant interpretive artist ... these are not mutually exclusive pursuits. At one of James' concerts this summer he told a story about first hearing Carol King singing her song You've Got A Friend and immediately wanting to learn it himself, which he did. When Carol heard his version, she suggested he record it, which he did. Little did he know, he said, that he would be playing it every night for the next 30 years! He doesn't seem to regret this at all, though. Then he proceeded to sing the living shit out of the song, making it new once again. If saxophonist Joshua Redman can make something new of I Had A King (on his latest, and brilliant album Timeless Tales [For Changing Times] -- he also does Dylan's The Times They Are A Changin'), then why can't Joni? Can you imagine hearing Brian Blade (who is smokin' on the Redman album), Mark Isham, and the pedal steel player accompanying Joni in her 90s voice singing I Had A King (so change the key if it's too high now! That's what singers do as they age! Frank did it!) ... it would be a whole new world. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 01:29:54 -0600 From: Evian Subject: Sandboxes (NJC) Mary & Wally K, Nicely put.. I just finished reading the billion digests I received today (well, I exaggerate) and I ended up scratching my head about what exactly was going on.... I thought I must have been missing something, until you two expressed your opinions. Anyway, I agree with your posts. Evian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 04:19:48 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: one last post on the whole arrogance thang! She's always talking - chicken squawking - Evian wrote: > If I was Joni, and Henley was getting 100 grand more than I > was, of course I would cry fowl. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 04:35:58 -0400 From: "John T. Folden" Subject: Sound flaw in No Apologies? Howdy all, during the first couple of secs of No Aplogies on the CD, I hear what sounds like a tape skipping for just a fraction of a second. Is this simply an odd sound made by Joni's guitar or is there a flaw in my disc? thanx, John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 04:36:50 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: one last post on the whole arrogance thang! In a message dated 10/6/98 1:08:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, evian@sk.sympatico.ca writes: << Ok, one last thought about this whole arrogance thing... Put yourself in Joni's shoes. >> I'm a big fan of irony. So, isn't that arrogance for one to say his comment is the last word on arrogance? ;>) Nerer mind. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 04:50:31 EDT From: Cblakey5@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on Probation Kakki Thanks for the grand entertainment. Bill D. do I hear a satorical song coming from D.C.? Carole ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:07:04 EDT From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: Alleged comments by Jackson Browne OK.... Re: the comments supposedly made by Jackson Browne - were they ever printed in any article other than NATIONAL ENQUIRER???? All I can say is - they are not exactly a staunch standard of reporting integrity. Anything I read in a tabloid I would take with a proverbial "grain of salt". Or rather - with a few more grains of salt than I take what is presented *anywhere* in the media! I'm not here to judge. I'm here to appreciate human beings as being such, and to allow their creativity to enrich and color my life. And for that - Thank you, Joni. Thank you, Jackson. Love and peace, Susan Crawford Morro Bay, Ca. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 04:23:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Holliston Subject: JM? STAS? I know this has already been discussed, and that my friend cul heath has stated that Joni's first album is called Song to a Seagull. This is a confusing point, and I'm just asking: was there a time when Joni's first album was self-named, and did somebody (a record company exec, perhaps) change it to STAS? This is what I read in the Goldmine article (Feb. 1995): JONI MITCHELL was released in March 1968, and the first thing to say about it is to confirm that the title was JONI MITCHELL. The album's cover, a painting by Mitchell surrounding a tiny photograph of her, features a grouping of birds that spell out the words "Song to a Seagull," the title of one of the songs. Not only has this led many people to call the album SONG TO A SEAGULL, but several reputable rock 'n' roll history books list two different albums, one called JONI MITCHELL, the other SONG TO A SEAGULL. Mitchell, when informed of this, expressed surprise. "People can't see them," she said of the birds, "and the L [of Seagull] is cut off, 'cause even the graphic department, they didn't see it either. It's called JONI MITCHELL." In Complete Poetry And Lyrics, she again refers to this album simply as Joni Mitchell. On the spine of both the vinyl and CD copies, it's also called Joni Mitchell. Pure and simple. When was the title changed? I think Mark D. is right: the first album is called......Joni Mitchell. Thanks in advance for any responses that may clear this matter up, not that it's of earth-shaking importance :-D Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:23:38 EDT From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & encores Sherrie's story about the '76 concert was very nice. Thank you, Sherrie! Another artist that is often thought of as a "difficult" personality is John Fogerty. In their days as Creedence, they supposedly never did encores (let me know if I'm wrong, anyone?). If people expect them as a regular part of the show, it robs them of their true, intended meaning; they become just a show- biz prop, in a way. Cheers, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 07:29:27 -0400 From: jw1327 Subject: New York Times article Take a deep breath- and here I go: This is a letter I sent to Wally B. (of the Homepage) re Joni in the NY Times. I thought I'd drop it in here, too, fore the sake of discussion. Please don't threaten to kill my (nonexistent) children! :-) ********* Hi Wally- Hope you are well and feeling good- the website continues to awe and inspire me- what a work of love and commitment! I read the NYT article on Joni with mixed feelings- even YOU wrote: > The article is, > obviously, a not totally positive portrait of JM, but after I settled > down from my initial stinging read, I found the article to actually be > an intelligent and honest report about some of Joni's positive and > negative sides. It's not an article that Joni will like, but it's the kind > of piece that all artists should perhaps occasionally have written > about them. You know, I get so confused. Are we as Joni lovers (what term best describes us? They all sound so stupid) to just accept everything she says and does without question or criticism? Somehow I think she would hate the notion of that. Like sheep following or something. I agree that she has LOTS to be bitter and angry about, but I wonder if she really acknowledges her own part in the way things are. Now I hope you know me well enough to know that I am in NO WAY defending her various record companies for the shameful way she has been treated by them ever since the mid seventies. But, by the same token, (and as she herself has said) she has to give them something they can work with (which of course, she usually does). Ok- Art. Art. Art. If it's truly art then, perhaps she shouldn't be so concerned with commerce and radio play etc. What am I trying to say? I don't know. I Love Joni. I love her body of work, especially the most challenging stuff- but seems to me that Joni needs to really think about what she wants and what would, indeed, make her happy. As I said, I am confused. But SO very grateful that Joni continues to produce beautiful work. Stay well, my friend. Hope to hear from you if you have the time. Love, James (you know, the Conspiracy guy) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:42:40 EDT From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: Chili/David/leaving (NJC) Mary- Thank you, thank you, thank you, for your wise and wonderful words. Lovin' peace, Susan C. Morro Bay, Ca. (w/cat sleeping on my desk) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:49:47 EDT From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on Probation Thank you, Kakki!!! You made me laugh! I'm keeping this one! Love, Susan C. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 07:55:15 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Joni quoted in TIme Joni is mentioned in the "People" section of today's "Pgh Post Gazette." Joni Mitchell, regarded as one of the nation's most influencial rock singers, is back with her new cd, Taming The Tiger. "The industry dropped me for twenty years," she tells Time magazine, They wouldn't let me on the radio or on MTV." As for what passes for music these days, it's "crap," Mitchell says. "It's all about Wall Street now. And the record is just a poker chip. And these. you know, artists are going willingly into the slaughter." The singer is even disdainful of alternative rock. "Everybody say Kurt Cobain was a great writer. I don't see it. Why is he a hero? Whining and killing yourself====I fail to see the heroism in that." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:08:28 -0400 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Joni on Probation - ---------- > From: Kakki > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Joni on Probation > Date: Monday, October 05, 1998 10:22 PM > > thisisajokethisisajokethisisajokethisisajokethisisajokethisisajokethisis > > Joni, > > Several examples of your inexcusable behavior have recently come to our > attention... I love it! I was becoming a bit depressed about the recent twist the JMDL was taking; This cheered me up. May I add... No No bad girl! Thank you, Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 13:30:43 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: TTT sets UK charts alight! (NOT) TTT makes its debut on the UK charts this week at No.57. The same position attained by DED back in '85, and 3 places lower than TI. Other entries include Lauryn Hill at 2, and the Costello/Bacharach collaboration at 32. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:30:11 EDT From: BH1248@aol.com Subject: Lyrics question << what do tire skids and teeth marks have to do with lawyers and loan sharks >> I assume "tire skids" relates to the ambulance-chasing stereotype of attorneys who make a living from capitalizing on others' misfortunes and accidents (hence, skid marks). Watch "Jaws" to get the "teeth marks" and shark connection. :) Kingpin NP: Medeski, Martin & Wood, "Combustication" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 05:35:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Holliston Subject: re: Chili/David (NJC) Sorry y'all for prolonging this sad thread, but I can't live with myself unless I say this: Over the past few months, David Marine and I have exchanged a few personal emails, and he's never been anything but kind, understanding, and a gentleman (sorry, but that word still carries some weight up here in Canadaland). We have not always agreed about all things Joni, but David's always been encouraging rather than dismissive, and I've really appreciated his insights. I've certainly enjoyed Mr. Chilihead's posts but I also agree with Wally and Paul: Sir, shit or get off the pot! You have garnered a lot of personal mileage out of this exchange and your recent posts have made me, for one, lose a significant amount of respect for you. First of all, you posted a personal email to the list without making any effort to deal with the problem via personal email; Second of all, you are to farewell posts what an aging diva is to farewell tours Third of all, I have enjoyed your posts, Chili, I really have, but I can't help but notice that David has endured your attacks without attacking back - - this is not cowardice, but class! Hoping not to prolong this - Mary Pitassi, my dear friend Wally Kairuz, and Paul Ivice have already said it better, and Michael Yarbrough asked us to refrain from interfering in the first place. Perhaps I should know better...... Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:54:45 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: JM? STAS? Joni has (surprise!) said different things at different times about this, but BEFORE the album was released, she referred to it in concert as "Song to a Seagull," so it's safe to assume that is what she intended. The company made a mistake. To be humorlessly correct, the album and CD I own ** is** entitled "Joni Mitchell,"even though Joni **intended** something else. The title printed on the actual record or CD governs what the "real" title is, if there is a discrepancy with what is printed on the packaging (do I have this right, Jerry Notaro?) What's printed on the HDCD? And more importantly, is the sound really that much better? . > This is a confusing point, and I'm just asking: was there a time when > Joni's first album was self-named, and did somebody (a record company exec, > perhaps) change it to STAS? > This is what I read in the Goldmine article (Feb. 1995): ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 06:27:28 -0700 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: (NJC) Gershwin/Porgy and Bess FredNow@aol.com wrote: But it led me to wonder > whether there are any recorded performances done in a completely colloquial > style -- maybe with Stevie Wonder as Porgy (although his voice is probably too > high) and Aretha as Bess (which I know she could easily pull off having heard > her aria at the Grammys, which made me want to hear all opera sung the way she > does). I mean, Porgy and Bess is a folk opera ... are there any recorded folk > performances? Well I don't know if this exactly fits what you're driving at but there is a recording of Ella Fitzgerald & Louis Armstrong performing most of the songs from Porgy & Bess. I don't think it's all of the music, though, so maybe it doesn't qualify. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:34:41 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Chili leaving (NJC) I just wanted to publicly state that I feel sad that Chili has left the list. I very much enjoyed reading his posts and I tried to convince him to stay, but I failed. He has a special humor and wisdom that is unfortunately now lost to JMDL. It seems that his reasons for leaving are much more complex than just getting a rude letter from someone, so I don't mean this message as an accusation of anyone. I just want people to know that I'm sorry he has left us. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 09:42:26 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: (NJC) Gershwin/Porgy and Bess Mark or Travis wrote: Well I don't know if this exactly fits what you're driving at but there > is a recording of Ella Fitzgerald & Louis Armstrong performing most of > the songs from Porgy & Bess. I don't think it's all of the music, > though, so maybe it doesn't qualify. There is also a classic recording of the songs from Porgy and Bess by Ray Charles and Cleo Laine. It is spectacular. Jerr np: FTR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 06:49:40 -0700 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: "Complain, Complain" (JC) Bounced Message wrote: > > Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 23:31:21 +0200 > From: "Winfried Hühn" > > Colin wrote: > > > Joni is an ordinary human being like the rest of us, with her plusses and > > minuses. We might think it better not to judge her for that. We don't have > > to like or love her just respect her. > > > > That's exactly how I see it. I'd also like to see her behave a little > less arrogantly once in a while, but hey, I'd also like to win the big > lottery jackpot every weekend -- just won't get it! Also, despite Joni's > strong personality and honesty speaking through all of her appearances, > we shouldn't completely rule out the possibility that we still get a > distorted picture of her through the media. You all know how it works... > she says something inappropriate once, but 200 newspapers and 500 TV > stations report it, amplifying the whole thing ad nauseam. The following lyrics have been running around my head with regard to this whole discussion of Joni's arrogance: I don't like to lie But I sure can be phony When I get scared I stick my nose up in the air Stoney, stoney When I get scared I don't like her attacks on specific fellow artists. Even when I agree with them I think she should refrain from them. But I do think the press has given her good reason over the years to be at least wary of them. It's amazing though, how warm & human she can be when she's with an interviewer she likes & trusts. Remember the piece with Vicki Gabereaux? Or her appearance on Rosie O'Donnell? She was funny & warm. But I remember when she was on Jay Leno and he made some comment about every woman he knew in college was a fan of hers. She didn't say anything but I could see & feel her start to bristle. And why shouldn't she? It was a stupid comment. I think she gets tired of being criticized by people who don't have the foggiest notion of what her art is all about. I can't blame her for that. So she gets defensive. A perfectly natural human reaction. Mark in Seattle going to get ready for work now so you can let this topic die its unnatural death ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 07:14:18 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Joni on Probation Kakki -- Let me pick myself up off the floor, catch by breath, try like hell to maintain, and suggest the following ... To break you of your electronic dependency on the evil VG8, your electrical service will be disconnected for a period of six weeks, in the hopes that you will pick up a REAL guitar again. And thanks for turning the wheels away from the recent unpleasantness ... this is much more fun! Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:23:11 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: Re: PGH Gazette, Kurt Cobain - SJC Julie quoted from the Pitt. Post Gazette on Joni: <> One time when I was in a bar on River St. in Savannah, the guitar player, a heavy set man called Chief, was playing a Marshall Tucker Band song. When he finished he asked for requests and a young military person from the back yelled out, PLAY SOME KURT COBAIN, PLAY SOME KURT COBAIN. With that, the Chief said clearly, OK, LETS DO THAT. Then he started to bang some heavy minor chords on his guitar and sang this line: MY NAME IS KURT COBAIN AND I MAKE A MILLION DOLLARS A WEEK AND I HATE THE WORLD.......BANG! Then he threw his head back and played dead for a very long time. Then, he stood up and held up a red small trash can marked TIPS, and said: Do you see this buddy, this is a tip can. This is Georgia. This ain't no Seattle grunge show. Get the f...out of my bar. Go ahead, get out here....Git Git Git. And then he played the guitar riff from deliverance and said, "that boy had a pretty mouth, didn't he." Now, this was pretty rough, and I did laugh. I am not laughing at the tragedy of Kurt Cobain, but I completely understand the Joni quote. Cobain's death should never have happened. Joni said as much about vanGogh. 'his despair was not to be imitated.' I also understand the georgia guitar player. There was a simple honesty about him. And that's Joni. A simple honesty, and a consistant one at that. Thanks for the post Julie. pj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 09:31:18 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: njc Sticks and stones At 07:52 PM 10/5/98 -0700, Mark S. rote: >Everytime I read something like this I am somewhat incredulous. I >always wonder who is *doing* this kind of shit and why, fercrissake? Do >some people have nothing better to do than to try & hurt other people's >feelings? How sick is that?! Who the hell do they think they are?! Mark and all, Anybody at one time or another. Emails are taken the wrong way all of the time. People write things sometimes that they regret. Recipients can embellish what they get. People pretend to be who they aren't. People mistakenly think that others aren't who they say they are.(For a long time, I thought Wally and Les were the same person!?!? And what about the time, some of us thought that Jackson Browne was sneaking on the list?!?!) They don't call me the Oliver Stone of the JMDL for nothin' It's a joke. It's projection gone mad! It's insane. It's paranoid. It's crazy. It's the internet. -JulieZW ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 07:54:41 -0700 From: ginny Subject: Re: Good-bye from Chili! Chili - Your postings will be missed. You and Debbie are the kind of people I always wished I could enjoy as friends, sharing a love for Joni and perhaps other things. I think this is what JMDL is all about. Of course, on the internet, all types of people come together, including some whose behavior may annoy us. But, that's what tolerance is all about. All in all, I think the list came out ahead because you were here. Ginny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:00:29 -0400 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Salon magazine review Read it at http://www.salon1999.com/ Joni Mitchell TAMING THE TIGER | REPRISE RECORDS BUY IT BY BILL HAYES | "I'm a runaway from the record biz," Joni Mitchell sings in the title track from "Taming the Tiger," the 20th release in her 30-year career, "from the hoods in the hood and the whiny white kids." But for the moment Mitchell has returned, and she has rarely sounded better or more passionate. On the first half of the disk, the 54-year-old artist is in a feisty mood: Recounting an argument with an industry "suit," "Lead Balloon" kicks off with Mitchell crying, "Kiss my ass!" and throwing her drink at him. "Must be the Irish blood," she adds, unapologetic. The emotions shift with "The Crazy Cries of Love." A sly, playful tune about the noise-making of love-making, it captures her voice at its most sensuous. "Stay In Touch" is a delicate bid for contact -- presumably, to the daughter with whom she's been reunited -- both tentative and hopeful. In "Face Lift," unexpected humor lightens the story of a tense encounter with her mother. And "My Best to You" is Mitchell's touching rendition of an old Sons of the Pioneers tune -- a deeply felt, sentimental farewell. "Taming the Tiger" ends on a bittersweet note, with an instrumental version of the title song. Plucking her idiosyncratically tuned guitar, she strips the song to its bones, with anger, joy, sorrow and wit. Mitchell, who has long considered herself a jazz vocalist (even before her 1979 album "Mingus"), here effortlessly proves herself a seasoned one. "Taming the Tiger's" suite of songs is among the loveliest she has ever recorded. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:01:30 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: Reprise and jonimitchell.com you're so smart michael!!!! i'm glad--i learn things! :-) raymond ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:45:47 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: JM? STAS? - -----Original Message----- From: Deb Messling To: joni@smoe.org Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 8:42 AM Subject: Re: JM? STAS? <> Well now, this explains Joni's big problems with the industry from the get-go! Must have been downhill from there... Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:59:21 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: TTT/Spell Catcher glitch (NJC) - -----Original Message----- From: FredNow@aol.com To: joni@smoe.org Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 2:50 AM Subject: TTT/Spell Catcher glitch >An amusing little glitch ... Spell Catcher automatically interprets TTT as an >abbreviation for the current time. So whenever I type TTT it erases itself and >changes to 1:55:54 AM or whatever. So I have to type TTR or something and then >go back and change it. And my spellcatcher interprets my "jmdl" as "dum-dum"... Not so sure I like this feature, Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:08:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: JM? STAS? On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Marsha wrote: > < "Joni Mitchell,"even though Joni **intended** something else. The > title printed on the actual record or CD governs what the "real" > title is, if there is a discrepancy with what is printed on the > packaging (do I have this right, Jerry Notaro?)>> That is true for library cataloging purposes. What is on the item takes precedence over what is on the package. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 09:14:19 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Everyone hates everyone...and I hate me I noticed there was some sort of brouhaha going on, but because I was getting more than 300 msgs a day (x phile, xena lists), I had to ignore content. I did check out that NY Times article in the library, and while it was a little brutal in its honesty, I thought JM retained her nobility. (I even liked that picture). If the single mindedness of her creative efforts causes her to attack others, so be it. Battle on, Joni! - -jan > i have never seen so much anger or hatred flying back and forth on this list. >it's really horrible and depressing and terrible in every sense of the word! i >go to school where bashing your peers is taboo and swearing, smoking, and >stupidity rule. so i really hate logging onto the net and finding the same >thing going about. is it the stars? whatever it is, just CALM DOWN. at least >let's try to get along. or imagine doing just what the big bang did (the >breeders). >-mariana >NP: Fugazi, -Red Medicine- > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 12:37:41 -0400 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Being asked to leave(JMDLC) I know I'm a couple of days behind on this subject but them's the hazards of being on digest at work, eh? Anyhoo, As far as Chili leaving the list goes, I was just curious if *anybody* recognized this David Marine? I can't recall ever seeing the name before. Is it the real name of somebody who only posts with their knick-name, or is mr. Marine a lurker? It just struck me ironic that some one who never posts themselves(if the latter is the case here) would have the onions to tell someone else that they should leave. John~ NP "Strutter" - Kiss(inspired by mr. Chili) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:42:51 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Knit a sweater....(VJC - i.e. vestigial Joni Content) From: Bkparlour@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:04:33 EDT Nice one - I like this thread - or should I say yarn? It's a little pearl (one). Personally I'll never forgive Joni for for lifting "My old man" from Tommy Steele - I suppose "dustman" wouldn't have translated quite so well , so I can't blame her for changing it... David Mascall ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:44:25 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: NJC Oct 31 "boo" hotel room Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 08:10:07 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" I"ve got a "boo" hotel room: Attention anyone who needs a place to stay in NY on Oct 31: Mr. and Mrs. Chili had graciously given my husband and I their extra room reservation at the Park Savoy --$140 a night.) Believe me, there is nothing else available near the Village on Halloween night. I need to can.cel my reservation, because we've decided to go to the JM concert in the DC area, but before I do so, I want to make sure that no one going to the concert needs a room. Please email me by Friday. I will be canceling my reservation on Saturday. This is my final notice. Julie ZW ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:42:12 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: strange distortion etc on TTT From: Bkparlour@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:04:28 EDT philipf@tinet.ie wrote As I burnt a little midnight oil at one time doing some (amateur) recording I'd like to add my pennyworth on this subject. Could Joni be continuing the grand tradition of the "guide track" - often used by the beatles if I remember rightly. It's a useful way of letting a track evolve in the studio - even a very "dirty" part can be very useful for giving a better indication of the shape or tempo of the song as the parts build. Haven't noticed the looped clanking - Joni seems fond of a little sample here and there (c/o the cigarette machine on "Try another"). On another tack, can anyone direct me to any more recorded music by the pedal steel player on TTT - he does a cracking job. The part on "No apologies" is magnificent! David Mascall ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:45:11 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Complaints about Joni Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 09:17:42 -0400 From: JJM > But if > she is to succeed further in her career, she's going to have to stop > refusing to go back. A man is the sum of his memories, it's said, and > musicians are no different; you can't just keep moving on without at > least acknowledging your past, but it seems like Joni has almost always > done that, even recently upon her 'return' to her more successful > jazz/folk gestalt, refusing to go back in any way other than a slight > nod to what once was. Hi all. I'd like to give my once a month comments if I could. It's very interesting that this happened and I feel it calls our attention to the role of the artist and the public response. The interesting part is that Joni did something that was construed as negative and provoked some feelings. And so you have this one group of people who say, "damn that bitch, how could she? I'm so disappointed!!" and another group that says, "but she's had trauma in her life and she's a human being, leave her alone...don't play with my image of her" and yet another group that says, "who cares? she's an artist..." So what this shows (to me anyway) is the expectations of an artist against the expectations of the public in terms of WHAT WE CHOOSE TO SEE HER AS. Personally, I've always been annoyed at her hang up about playing her old stuff. Most of what I love and play is her old stuff and as a musician myself, I agree with the above in that an artist is the sum total of his/her experiences. And that is my personal opinion of that aspect. And we could speculate all day about why she's so hung up on it and make excuses for her, but the reality is, we really can't judge her for the place she is in personally which has reflected onto her artistic life. Whether we see it as positive or negative, we seem to expect her to conform to an image. And so we make a choice to either see her hangups and understand it's the place she's in and continue to admire her work as an artist, or see her as a human being and stand in judgement against her, feel disappointed and complain about it-which is okay too if that's what is felt at the time. We all can respond freely to this, but these aren't the only two options. What I'd like to bring to your attention here is that a discussion group can really explore this issue from a widened perspective. Instead of feeling bad about it and focusing on those feelings, maybe we could take a look at what is really going on here since this is a place to talk about the artist. We can say how we feel about it, but instead of putting a lot of energy into whether we're offended or not, take a look at Joni the artist versus Joni the human and maybe we could build some insight into what her struggles are and how they continually are reflected in her music. I'd love to do a little analysis myself and still be able to appreciate her. Anyway, those are my two cents. - -JULIETTE. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:49:08 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on Probation In a message dated 10/5/98 10:33:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << 3. For writing the lyric of "formula music, girlie guile, genuine junk food for juveniles", we request that you not only purchase 1,000 units each of Alanis and Celine's latest albums, but you also be forced to listen to them every night for one month. >> Kakki, My, isn't that going just a bit below the belt? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:48:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: JM? STAS? - ---Gerald Notaro wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Marsha wrote: > > > < > "Joni Mitchell,"even though Joni **intended** something else. The > > title printed on the actual record or CD governs what the "real" > > title is, if there is a discrepancy with what is printed on the > > packaging (do I have this right, Jerry Notaro?)>> > > That is true for library cataloging purposes. What is on the item takes > precedence over what is on the package. My non-HDCD copy of this first album (Reprise 6293-2) says "Song To A Seagull" on both the disc itself and on the jewel box spine. So much for consistency. Brian np: NPR-The Computer Guys === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:07:13 +0100 From: "Philipf" Subject: Did Joni not Yoko cause Beatles split ? John Lennon in his 1971 bumper double issue interview with Jann Wenner in Rolling Stone made an extraordinary attack on Joni Mitchell. What prompted the moptop to make such an attack on the looney Saskatoon songstress ? Could the arrogant, egotistical anglophile have engineered the demise of the fab four ? Philip NP The Evening session - BBC Radio One ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:44:24 -0500 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: RE: a coupla things NJC > > Joni Mitchell is a human being, and not, never has been, perfect. > Accept. Nobody and I mean NOBODY has ever been perfect. (except > my Mum, but only because I accept her for her imperfections, as I > hope she accepts me for mine). > Sorry dude but I have to disagree with you. You see this dude walked the planet for some 33 years and he was perfect. In fact the book says he was perfect in every way. So there you go. I think the reason he was so perfect was much like your Mom, you see he accepted people no matter what their imperfections. Peace, Craig ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:21:59 +0100 From: "Philipf" Subject: Re: a coupla things NJC Happy The Man wrote: >Sorry dude but I have to disagree with you. You see this dude walked the >planet for some 33 years and he was perfect. In fact the book says he was >perfect in every way. So there you go. I think the reason he was so >perfect was much like your Mom, you see he accepted people no matter what >their imperfections. > >Peace, Craig > Is that the same dude who tossed some guys out of the temple because he didn't accept their imperfections ? Philip NP Marvin Gaye Trouble Man sountrack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:59:02 -0500 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: RE: Joni on Probation Kakki, Where were you when Letterman needed you. Great post and a positive twist to a rather negative vibe I have been seeing. Question though: There is always truth masked in humor. Peace, Craig > thisisajokethisisajokethisisajokethisisajokethisisajokethisisajokethisis > > Joni, > > Several examples of your inexcusable behavior have recently come to our > attention. We had no idea that you have been such a bad girl. You are > hereby put on probation until further notice. Yes, this is a > harsh step to > take but you have so greatly offended us that we find this step to be our > only option. We are giving you only one more chance to start > behaving like > the perfect idol we expect of you. In the interim, for your many > transgressions, we have made the following recommendations for your > rehabilitation to Joni Police Headquarters: ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:37:42 -0400 From: "Kay Ashley" Subject: FLAMES ON CHILIS MAKE KAY HOT UNDER COLLAR (NJC) OK, I'm on digest, and am therefore perpetually behind the 8 ball. OK, I'm mostly a lurker. But I must emphatically say that, after having just read ALL the digests that contained the Chili controversy, CHILI MUST NOT LEAVE. I LOVE reading Chili's posts, and I found his poetry to be very moving -- the one about his father hit me like the 16-ton weight that always seems to fall on people in Monty Python sketches. Clearly Chili-Bri is a writer, and why should he not share with us if he so desires? Who's losing skin off his nose by Chili sharing? WHY IS THIS JOY NOT ALLOWED? To state the OBVIOUS, if one doesn't want to read his posts, then don't read his posts! God knows I scroll through the digests all the time because of time and interest constraints... Having met both Chilis at Woodstock (so sue me for using the name), I can assure all who have not met them that they are among the loveliest people you'll ever meet, and it hurts my feelings that someone would be compelled to be mean to Chili-Bri, presumably just for taking up bandwidth -- i.e., just for being a prolific writer with opinions. Nothing about his poetry OR his opinions about Joni was offensive, because IN ITS ENTIRETY it was expressed very clearly AS OPINION, not ground-into-the-granite fact. The reason I enjoy this list is that for the most part, we're not a bunch of sycophantic freaks -- we all genuinely love Joni Mitchell, with all her glaring faults and blinding brilliance, and the fact that we love her art so deeply and truly appreciate the breadth, depth and height of it, means that we automatically have many other things in common. For example, BIG SURPRISE, many of us also happen to be artists, in a variety of media. A natural extension of this is that some of us may feel compelled to share our art from time to time. Chili-Bri's prolific sharing and opinionating were not in theory much different from a tape of list members sharing musical interpretations of Joni's music. He was EXPRESSING himself, and with good logic, good artistry and good humor. And besides, Chili-Bri is the author of one of my favorite quotes: "Hot weather makes hot chilis." OK, I feel better now. And if people start throwing flames at me, I'll get out the hot sauce (I have no idea what that means). Kay :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 11:32:07 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: A New Angle on Joni Attitude In response to Les and his insightful post about how we can more constructively explore Joni's somewhat perplexing public attitudes and pronouncements -- I was thinking about this. Yes music is an art, granted. Yet Joni self-identifies as a *painter* rather repeatedly. Nonetheless, I don't think that painting is her livelihood (which is probably why she still enjoys it so!). I imagine that it's her music keeping the lights on and the mortgage company at bay. So let's for a minute think of her composing, recording and touring as ... her job. Now she's had quite a career at this job -- 30+ years of dedicated service. She's made her record companies a lot of money -- both by direct sales and influencing those who came later and made sales of their own. Her work has been roundly praised by everyone in her "company", and she has won numerous awards. And through it all she hasn't played politics, sucked up or pandered to the brass to get ahead - -- she's let the way she does her job do the talking. So all in all, not bad, if it was your career, would you complain if your resume looked something like this? Well, you might. If you'd been consistently passed over for promotion, seen more and more company dollars and support go to other projects ... if you watched as your company let product quality plummet without a care as it shamelessly gouged the customer with price increases ... if the awards you received were given to you instead of the raise or promotion you so richly deserved. You'd probably have a thing or two to say this point -- at least I would. And if you'd been at a company like the music business for 30+ years, you'd be in a great position to "tell all", and really let them have it where it hurts. And Joni's certainly in that position. I say this only because, as I think about it, the typeof things Joni is saying are not that different from those things I hear my friends and family say when carping about their job. Thoughts anyone? Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:39:02 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Chili/David (NJC) Roberto wrote: >Over the past few months, David Marine and I have exchanged a few personal >emails, and he's never been anything but kind, understanding, and a >gentleman (sorry, but that word still carries some weight up here in >Canadaland). Sigh, "gentlemen" are in rare supply down here anymore, Roberto. Can you introduce me to a few up there? ;-) David Marine is one of those rare gentlemen. It's really sad how out of whack things get sometimes. My 2-cents suggestion/plea: Can we all please strive not to bring our private wars onto the public list? It can be so destructive. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:09:14 -0400 From: Chris Kornmann Subject: Jazz does Joni This blurb is in our upcoming magazine's jazz section: Arkadia Records signed a long-term contract with David Lahm, a longtime member of the New York City jazz and cabaret scene. First up on Lahm's to-do list is a project that will interpret the the work of folk pop icon Joni Mitchell. Chris Kornmann Art Director CMJ New Music Report (516) 498-3137 chrisk@cmj.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:42:16 -0700 From: daricem@sfpl.lib.ca.us Subject: Lost Joni mail Could someone forward digest #389-391? My email can not open attachments and my digest have vanished. Thanks, ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:02:44 EDT From: Dmascall@aol.com Subject: Borders stocking policy (JC) JAWebster2@aol.com (Borders Jazz buyer) Greetings from the UK. I venture to suggest you would do your stores no harm whatsoever in the UK by stocking the "jazzy Joni" titles in prefence to others - especially given the fairly cosmopolitan sites selected for your stores so far. David Mascall (weeny little indy bookseller) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 14:07:47 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Surviving A Crisis (NJC) With all that's been going on around here recently, thought I'd pass on these ... Thoughts For Surviving A Crisis 1. Indecision is the key to flexibility. 2. The facts, though interesting, are irrelevant. 3. If you can smile when things go worng, you have somebody in mind to blame. 4. Someone who thinks logically is a nice contrast to the real world. 5. Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious. 6. There is always one more imbecile than you counted on. 7. One seventh of your life is spent on Monday. 8. There is absolutely no substitute for lack of preparation. 9. By the time you make ends meet, the ends get moved. 10. If you think this is as bad as it gets, don't bet on it. 11. Things are more like they are today than they have ever been in the past. 12. Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it. The check's in the mail, Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:07:56 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: a coupla things NJC In a message dated 10/6/98 1:16:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, adelphot@bga.com writes: << Sorry dude but I have to disagree with you. You see this dude walked the planet for some 33 years and he was perfect. In fact the book says he was perfect in every way. So there you go. I think the reason he was so perfect was much like your Mom, you see he accepted people no matter what their imperfections. >> And, sorry, I must disagree with you, since I believe "perfection" to be an imperfection because it makes everyone else feel inferior. Enough proselytizing, Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:06:50 -0300 From: "wallykai" Subject: David Marine, Kakki I was just curious if *anybody* recognized this David Marine? I can't >recall ever seeing the name before. Is it the real name of somebody who >only posts with their knick-name, or is mr. Marine a lurker? John~ >NP "Strutter" - Kiss(inspired by mr. Chili) > John, I understand your curiosity. David Marine is an acknowledged list member. Kakki, I lost your Joni on probation piece, could you forward it to me please? WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 22:20:41 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: a coupla things NJC Happy The Man wrote: > > > > Joni Mitchell is a human being, and not, never has been, perfect. > > Accept. Nobody and I mean NOBODY has ever been perfect. (except > > my Mum, but only because I accept her for her imperfections, as I > > hope she accepts me for mine). > > > > Sorry dude but I have to disagree with you. You see this dude walked the > planet for some 33 years and he was perfect. In your idea of him, maybe. > In fact the book says he was > perfect in every way. Again the truth of that book is but your interpretaion. > So there you go. I think the reason he was so > perfect was much like your Mom, you see he accepted people no matter what > their imperfections. Unlike his followers today. Joni has her say in Tax Free > > > Peace, Craig - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #400 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?