From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #392 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Sunday, October 4 1998 Volume 03 : Number 392 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Nashville@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com Orlando@jmdl.com -Tampa@jmdl.com Sunrise@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Possible extra ticket Chicago 19th row [chaslee@ix.netcom.com] Welcome! [Michael Paz ] disappearing Joni mail [daricem@sfpl.lib.ca.us] Birthday Card ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Packaging Details - Joni/Brian Blade ["Kakki" ] Re:Joni vs. Jimi forward by Ric Lee [Chilihead2@aol.com] Re: Joni Queen Ungrateful ["Kakki" ] More VG-8 Edumacation [Michael Paz ] Re: JMHP/Liner Notes [Les Irvin ] Re: MTV's Daria (NJC) [Mark or Travis ] Re: Joni vs. Jimi forward by Ric Lee [Mark or Travis ] re: VG8 and JOni bumper stickers.... ["Jos B" ] Us Mag Does Joni [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: VG-8 (and vintage radio Joni) [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: VG-8 (and vintage radio Joni) [Mark or Travis Subject: Welcome! Susan Crawford wrote: "It's still morning-dark, and "Stay In Touch" just came on the radio (KOTR- FM, Cambria, Ca.). The universe is listening to us... Love, Susan Crawford" Hello Susan, Welcome to the list, step right up. I stayed a night in Cambria once when I was in love and had a wonderful night. It is a very beautiful place Cambria. As I recall, it was very romantic and I didn't sleep much. We should stay in touch! best to you, Michael NP-Crush- Dave Matthews Band ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 16:48:49 -0700 From: daricem@sfpl.lib.ca.us Subject: disappearing Joni mail Was there a late afternoon 10/3 digest? I thought I had one and it disappeared before I could read it. Darice ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 19:48:36 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Birthday Card Ok gang just a note to let you know that there is a very close vote and a possibility of a tie. So if you haven't voted now is the time as your vote could be very important. Midnight tonight (est) is the deadline and vote@jmdl.com is the address. Just send in the number of the one you like. 1. A donation in Joni's name to the SPCA and enclose the receipt in a card. 2. A donation in Joni's name to Save the Animals and enclose the receipt in a card. 3. A collage of photos of us, taken at JMDL gatherings in Julie's and Ashara's parties as well as the Joni concerts, plus any photos of individual members that they want to submit. The collage would symbolically show Joni how her music and spirit has brought together a wide variety of people who otherwise might never have met and become friends. The message: "Thank you, Joni, for bringing us together and keeping us together. Happy birthday from the Joni Mitchell Discussion List." 4. Adopt a child through a good organization that isn't a rip-off and not affiliated with a religion. Perhaps a kid from Ethiopia to stick with a Joni theme. Whoever wants can send in money and have their names on a card we send to Joni and the kid we sponsor. This could be an annual event, so we don't have to decide what to get her for the next 20 years. We can send her a card with updates on the kid each year on her birthday 5. A bottle of Tequila and a carton of Lucky Strikes (or American Spirits). 6. A collection of postcards from where we live with a short birthday greeting. 7. A map of the world with dots or some other indicator showing where we all live. Choose a place (e.g. in the Atlantic somewhere) where there is space, and have a logo with "The Joni Mitchell Discussion List" in fairly big letters. Draw lines from this logo to each of the name markers on the map. 8. Same as last year except without all the photos. The cover would be a copy of the banner used by the JMDL used at The Garden concert. 9. The JMDL cookbook -- a collection of recipes with short bios on the contributors. 10. Have all of the JMDL'ers e-mail addresses printed on a large cat pillow, you know one of those soft pillows that dogs and cats sleep on. 11. An expenses-paid trip to Jonifest '99 in Colorado. 12. A beautiful bouquet of flowers with a simple note. 13. A small box of token gifts from JMDL members, whether it be a card, poem, or whatever, something that wouldn't take up a very big box. 14. Individual birthday cards sent in by members, passed along to Wally, who would deliver them in a big sack. 15. The same sack of individual birthday cards, along with a basket of goodies (like coffee from Honduras) representing where we are from in the world. 16. A simple card, no larger than the "average" Hallmark-type card, custom made by someone with a graphics program on their PC. The front could be the illustration from Les' website of Joni with a cup of coffee, framed by a "squiggly" line to make it look like a postage stamp. Heading on the cover: "We've got stamps of many countries and we wish you a happy birthday!" Then at the bottom of the front cover: "Thank you for sharing so much joy and giving us so much inspiration ... from the Joni Mitchell Discussion List." On the inside, instead of signing names, we'd list by city, state and country where all participating JMDL members reside. 17. A JMDL community birthday card using a theme of pinball and billiards 18. A toy pinball machine 19. A beautiful sketch book, maybe with handmade paper 20. A bottle of her favorite wine 99. And last as well as least, a smelly turd wrapped in a special box, with a world map on it, showing where each of us JMDLrs lives. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 16:42:19 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Packaging Details - Joni/Brian Blade Ooh, when it rains it pours! Two more TTTs arrived in my mailbox today along with a load of new Brazilian musica and the Brian Blade album. Wanted to relate some nice, kitty, kitty minutia - There is a white sticker on TTT that says: "The anticipated follow-up to her double Grammy Award-winning release Turbulent Indigo featuring the tracks The Crazy Cries of Love and Love Puts on a New Face." There is also a sticker on the Brian Blade which says "From Joni Mitchell to Joshua Redman and Bob Dylan to Kenny Garrett, drummer Brian Blade has played and recorded with the best in music. This marks his debut as a leader. Produced by Daniel Lanois." This is my first listen to the Brian Blade Fellowship - Wowser - it is absolutely stunning and one of the best of the year IMO. Whew. Kakki NP: BBF - In Spite of Everything ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 19:58:04 EDT From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: Re:Joni vs. Jimi forward by Ric Lee Mr. Ric Lee : right on brian! i could not agree with you more. don't you find it odd that someone who so clearly wants to be adored, who feels so strongly she SHOULD be adored, will not do the thing that will get her what she wants??? joni could come out and play what ever set list SHE wants to play and then have some roadies roll out the grand piano and sit down and play "my old man" or something like it...she would bring down the fucking house! and don't you think she would enjoy bringing down the house? its all just arrogance, on an epic scale, IMHO. she is a complicated woman, bless her. love, ric (and i will try not to bother you again this morning...) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:08:35 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni Queen Ungrateful Chili, feeling a bit anarchist posited: >>is SIQUOMB-She is Queen Ungrateful Of Materialism and bitching. (Chili, the following is not directed at you but to the theme) We seem to be hearing regularly lately in reviews, articles and the like about Joni's arrogance, political incorrectness, mood swings, egotism and the like. I can't take it any more!!! I TRULY DON'T CARE!! I love, accept and respect Joni Mitchell no matter what the hell mood she's in on a particular day!!! Geez. Come on, anyone who brings such astounding beauty into the world surely has a lot more character than many people. Give her a break!! Kakki (Thank you I feel better now ;-) "The world is not conclusion, A sequel stands beyond, Invisible as music, But positive as sound" Emily Dickinson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 19:15:33 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: More VG-8 Edumacation Hello Vg-8 Enthusiasts and confused commenters, The VG-8 is a model-er, so it is designed to emulate the sounds of specific instruments like a Gibson hollowbodys, Martin, round back style (like Ovation), Les Paul's Strat's, Ricks, Es-335's, 12 strings, etc. This is besides being able to adjust the pitch of individual strings to make her palette of tunings. You can further "effect" the sounds of these instruments by using a model of a specific amplifier like Fender, Vox, or Marshall. Further still you can select the type of speaker cabinets and microphone types (like in a studio) with a selection of dynamic mics, condenser mics, etc. and the placement of the mics. All of these elements effect the sound. Furthermore, you can effects like reverb, chorus, and echo to these "sounds" or "patches". If Ms. Mitchell chose not to use any of the effects and play only an acoustic model with her tunings. The sound that would come out would be so close to the sound it is modeling, I don't think there are any of his here that could distinguish the difference in a recording or live. It would just sound like a miked acoustic guitar through a sound system ( or tape). The sounds that she is using on TTT are obviously her choice right now and the way she hears this wonderful music. I have noticed on albums previous to this one, even her acoustic instruments can sound "synthy" if you will, because of the "effects" that she chose to use in the studio. I thank God everyday for the VG-8 and I love mine and have many patches that are dry and acoustic sounding, because that it the way I like it. I have alot of Joni patches that I have made to try and duplicate the sound she gets on a specific song (all previous to the VG). When the thing came out, I was still working in a music store and my first thought was, {wow Joni could really use one of these}-(this should be voiced like Will Smith in the Alien ship on his way to destroy the alien planet)lol. . Off to play my VG-8 at a party and to turn a bunch of unsuspecting people on to the world of Joni Mitchell.(I'm also bringing the birthday boy a copy of TTT)YIPPPPPEEE! Love, King of Promotions, Michael P. NP-The kids playing Laser Tag outside. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 18:26:27 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: JMHP/Liner Notes At 10/3/98 02:26 PM Saturday, Mark Domyancich wrote: >You know, I really think Joni should have given Wally credit in the liner >notes of TTT. Mark et al - I agree - this is a major oversight on Joni's part. How did she miss this?? Les ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 17:29:58 -0700 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: MTV's Daria (NJC) Marilune@aol.com wrote: i like daria > too, but that's it. I've seen Daria once or twice & I thought it was hilarious. From what I saw Daria is this hyper-intelligent teen from a seriously dysfunctional family who seems to have learned early in life that 'hip is a herd mentality'. One of the episodes I saw was about a wedding that Daria was involved with (don't remember if it was a cousin or a sister or what). Daria's mother (a driven, corporate exec type I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, Mariana) got embarrasingly drunk & Daria ended up splitting with her cool aunt. I have a couple of those, btw (cool aunts, that is). It was very funny. Another one involved a project for English class that was very insightful and way too sophisticated for the school administration to swallow. They tried everything to get Daria & her friend to alter it or withdraw it. Finally the principle had it altered and Daria & friend had to sneak into the school & destroy it. Very satiric & well written, IMO. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 18:19:42 -0700 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: Joni vs. Jimi forward by Ric Lee Chilihead2@aol.com wrote: > > Mr. Ric Lee : > > right on brian! i could not agree with you more. don't you find it odd that > someone who so clearly wants to be adored, who feels so strongly she SHOULD be > adored, will not do the thing that will get her what she wants??? joni could > come out and play what ever set list SHE wants to play and then have some > roadies roll out the grand piano and sit down and play "my old man" or > something like it...she would bring down the fucking house! I have to disagree with this. I think one of the things that has kept Joni from becoming just another 50 something rock-n-roll has-been is that she hasn't turned herself into a human juke box. As far as I'm concerned the day she takes to the road doing her 'old stuff just the way she did it way back when' is the day she has turned herself into just another nostalgia act. I admit, I would LOVE to have witnessed one of those Miles of Aisles concerts with those incredible live renditions of 'A Case of You', 'Blue', 'Woman of Heart & Mind', 'Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire', etc. But Joni moved past all that long ago & I have to respect her for not wanting to perform material she's not interested in any more. The thing that's kept her interesting & vital is that she keeps growing. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:26:05 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni vs. Jimi forward by Ric Lee Chili forwarded Ric: > joni could come out and play what ever set list SHE wants to play >and then have some roadies roll out the grand piano and sit down >and play "my old man" or something like it...she would bring down >the fucking house! and don't you think she would enjoy bringing >down the house? its all just arrogance, on an epic scale, IMHO. I love you guys but you are really getting my blood pressure up today. Of course we would all love to hear Joni perform these songs but she CAN'T. This is not arrogance. As she admitted recently she simply cannot hit the notes in those songs anymore. If she changes the songs around to fit her new voice, they are not going to sound the same to us obviously and then she will probably be criticized for altering them. She's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. How many people in their 40s, 50s, 60s can do the things they did so well in their 20s? Not many - it's the rare exception, rather than the rule. The yammering on her to play her old stuff constantly must frustrate the hell out of her. What is she supposed to say to us? "Sorry, I don't have the capability to do them anymore." Yeah, I guess that would show some humility but I can't blame her for not wanting to feel obligated to constantly explain herself at this point. Kakki, ripe with rant NP: Gilberto Gil - Graca Divina ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 18:49:33 PDT From: "Jos B" Subject: re: VG8 and JOni bumper stickers.... Hi all! Anout the VG8, Esquiztio got it right in his post. The guitar can be tuned to any key (it used to have to be in standard), and the processoer makes it come out in the desired tuning without touching the tuning pegs. Therefore no more long waits while she tunes, and no more broken string for Joni, because of releasing and unreleasing the tension on them. The VG8 is cool and that it can mimic any guitar sound!!!! I saw a demo of one once. There is a screen on the controller, with a picture of the guitar, and you can 'virtually' place the pickups anywhere!!! Even halfway up the neck if desired, and the VG8 will mimic that sound! About the JM bumper stickers........how about 'Is Justice Just Ice'? See you all later! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 21:49:11 EDT From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: MTV's Daria (NJC) In a message dated 10/3/98 5:31:39 PM, Mark-n-Travis@worldnet.att.net wrote: >I've seen Daria once or twice & I thought it was hilarious. From what I >saw Daria is this hyper-intelligent teen from a seriously dysfunctional >family who seems to have learned early in life that 'hip is a herd >mentality'. One of the episodes I saw was about a wedding that Daria >was involved with (don't remember if it was a cousin or a sister or >what). Daria's mother (a driven, corporate exec type I believe, correct >me if I'm wrong, Mariana) got embarrasingly drunk & Daria ended up >splitting with her cool aunt. I have a couple of those, btw (cool >aunts, that is). It was very funny. Another one involved a project for >English class that was very insightful and way too sophisticated for the >school administration to swallow. They tried everything to get Daria & >her friend to alter it or withdraw it. Finally the principle had it >altered and Daria & friend had to sneak into the school & destroy it. >Very satiric & well written, IMO. Daria rocks. I love the opening song by Splendora. One of my favorite episodes is one called "The Misery Chick". Or another one of my favorite lines: The P.E. teacher is yelling at Daria because she refuses to participate and finally yells, "Why are you doing this, Morgendorffer?" and Daria says simply, "'Cause I'm just plain no good?" you go girl. - -mariana NP: The Beastie Boys (that's DEEP) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 19:25:16 -0700 From: ginny Subject: Re: Joni vs. Jimi forward by Ric Lee Mark In Seattle wrote: "But Joni moved past all that long ago & I have to respect her for not wanting to perform material she's not interested in any more. The thing that's kept her interesting & vital is that she keeps growing." Joni's longing for recognition in the music industry is curious to me because her product is not records -- it is art. I have always thought her place in history would be next to other great artists of the 20th century. Records, like TV shows, for the most part, are consumables, no matter how much money they make. VH-1 and MTV are a gallery of those money-making consumables. Although we love to see her recognized everywhere, this growing community is the most honest response human nature can make to her work. She holds out her own humanity for us to touch, and we return the gesture. Ginny ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 23:01:20 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Us Mag Does Joni Sorry if this has been mentioned, but US Magazine has a big spread on Joni in the November issue, complete with a full page b/w photo. Haven't read it yet- gotta grab it away from my daughter. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 23:14:53 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: VG-8 (and vintage radio Joni) In a message dated 10/3/98 7:05:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pswmusic@interport.net writes: << My understanding of the VG-8 and why our girl uses it is as follows: she can pre-program her various tunings >> My take on this is very different. It would make sense that she use the VG-8 during live performances, but in the studio, there is no reason for her not to use an acoustic....unless... she is purposely striving for the sound the VG-8 allows. She uses the VG-8 simply because she likes the sound of it. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 21:04:47 -0700 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: VG-8 (and vintage radio Joni) TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 10/3/98 7:05:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > pswmusic@interport.net writes: > > << My understanding of the VG-8 and why our girl uses it is as follows: > she can pre-program her various tunings >> > > My take on this is very different. It would make sense that she use the VG-8 > during live performances, but in the studio, there is no reason for her not to > use an acoustic....unless... she is purposely striving for the sound the VG-8 > allows. > > She uses the VG-8 simply because she likes the sound of it. My take is that when the VG-8 was first presented to her she saw it as a possible solution to a very daunting problem. She tried it and liked it. It worked for her, caught her interest. Then she started playing with it and like any artist discovering a new medium to create in, she immersed herself in it. She did the same thing with the synthesizer on DED. Personally I like the sound she chose for the guitar on TTT. It has an echoing, chiming quality to it that suits the material beautifully IMO. Joni has only begun to explore the possibilities of this new palette. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 02:48:16 -0400 (EDT) From: pswmusic@interport.net (Esquizito) Subject: Re: VG-8 (and vintage radio Joni) >My take is that when the VG-8 was first presented to her she saw it as a >possible solution to a very daunting problem. She tried it and liked >it. It worked for her, caught her interest. Then she started playing >with it and like any artist discovering a new medium to create in, she >immersed herself in it. She did the same thing with the synthesizer on >DED. Personally I like the sound she chose for the guitar on TTT. It >has an echoing, chiming quality to it that suits the material >beautifully IMO. Joni has only begun to explore the possibilities of >this new palette. Well, I must confess I have not heard TTT - yet (have to cash in my b'day Tower gift certi.) however, previously her signature recorded guitar sounds were produced through layering of mulitiple, often identical, takes to make a whole rich chimmering part. Perhaps the modeling of the VG-8 allows her to get this quality w/o the multi-tracking. Seemed like it had that same quality at the JazzFest performance where she "debuted" the instrument. Still, I'll have to hear TTT for myself. So I guess I was the only JMDL'r who heard the WBAI broadcast? Sorry, I didn't have any recorder patched in. Esquizito www.interport.net/~pswmusic ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #392 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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