From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #391 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Saturday, October 3 1998 Volume 03 : Number 391 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Nashville@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com Orlando@jmdl.com -Tampa@jmdl.com Sunrise@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni License Plate/ Joni Bumberstickers [LRFye@aol.com] re: TTT noises [Seanapper@aol.com] Joni was a member of The Mamas and Papas/ Lead Balloon ["Philipf" ] Re: The last one in the Trilogy:Making art v. Making Money and Joni and Jimi ["Marsha" ] Re: No TTT on San Antonio Radio [AzeemAK@aol.com] People Review of TTT [Anne Madden ] Natalie Merchant's Ophelia (NJC) [Alan ] Re: VG-8 [Gellerray@aol.com] Re: Janis & Joni & Q mag's appreciation of BOTH [Gellerray@aol.com] Re: VG-8 (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] Joni Nightmare! [TerryM2442@aol.com] Joni Synchronicity / outright weirdness [Mary Pitassi ] VG-8 ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Joni bumper stickers [Mary Pitassi ] Re: Joni Nightmare! [LRFye@aol.com] Vote Deadline [Scott and Jody ] Re: Joni bumper stickers [LRFye@aol.com] TTT rvwed in Pittsburgh ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Fem Side No Problem! [michael paz ] Re: Joni Nightmare! [heather ] joni [SDWS10@aol.com] joni in ny [trxschwa ] My 2 cent review... [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Joni bumper stickers [Brian Gross ] Make Art-Buy Joni [Chilihead2@aol.com] JMHP/Liner Notes [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Howard's post ["Julie Z. Webb" ] TTT Review in Entertainment Weekly [WirlyPearl@aol.com] Re: Joni Queen Ungrateful [Scott Price ] RE: Good Morning, Morgantown? [Mary Pitassi ] Re: TTT / Gershwin Tribute / music coupons [FredNow@aol.com] Tiny Town (NJC) [Michael Paz ] Re: charging for TTT/Van Gogh [BarBearUh ] JC-ebay [daricem@sfpl.lib.ca.us] Lillith NJC [Anne Madden ] Oct. 4 NY Times [JAN201@aol.com] Re: VG-8 (and vintage radio Joni) [pswmusic@interport.net (Esquizito)] NJC concert [catman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 03:03:39 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni License Plate/ Joni Bumberstickers Carole wrote: > I've long desired the pleasure of having a Joni bumbersticker on my car. Marsha wrote: > I would love to put "Joni Mitchell Never Lies" on my bumper. Carole and Marsha, what great ideas! I'd definitely be interested in JM bumperstickers! (Every once in awhile I think about buying little stick-on letters, to spell out www.jonimitchell.com on my rear window, but then I thought I'd get more weird looks than I already do ...) Marsha also wrote: > I am excited about my plate. I will drive it proudly. As well you should! You go, girl! Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 03:16:40 EDT From: Seanapper@aol.com Subject: re: TTT noises David Marine wrote: "Does anyone else hear a strange distortion on track 2, 2:41 and track 3, 1:09? What is that? Is it the VG-8 reading the action of the guitar strings?" ***** I don't hear anything unusual on track 2, 2:41, but a few seconds prior to that I hear a background "whoosh" that I interpret as representing the sound of a car speeding by in the distance. However, on track 3, 1:09 I hear what sounds like a brief fart. Neil in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:25:44 +0100 From: "Philipf" Subject: Joni was a member of The Mamas and Papas/ Lead Balloon Last night, as Never Mind The Buzzcocks blinked away in the corner an old black and white clip of The Mamas and Papas came on. I was stunned to see that the group consisted of two blokes with beards, a fat lady and our own Joni Mitchell in all her loveliness. They were singing a tune called California Dreamin', almost certainly an early version of Joni's song California. Joni used the name Michelle as a rather thin disguise for her role in this group. Final conclusive evidence lies in the fact that The Mamas and Papas did not appear at Woodstock, that would have required Joni to be in two places at once. When The Mamas and Papas split Joni went to England and joined a country rock outfit called Mathews Southern Comfort. The writer Hinton states this in his book and backs up the claim with photographic evidence. I suspect that Joni is still double jobbing, possibly as the drummer in a New Jersey stadium rock band. That explains how Lead Balloon came about. She got her roles confused. She was bound to get caught out in the end. Philip NP The Tornados Telstar ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 08:06:49 EDT From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: The last one in the Trilogy:Making art v. Making Money and Joni and Jimi Hi! What I have heard from Joni is how she wants to be recognized and make art and have an audience. In other words, Joni wants to do whatever she wants to do when it comes to her music and she wants people to buy it. Not just a few people. but a lot of people. She wants to be commercially viable. She wants to be on the top of Billboard. Very few really great artists get the appreciation they deserve in life or death. Most museums are not filled with the paintings of the living. Many authors do not achieve recognition until long after their deaths, Melville died in obscurity. I have seen only one living painter at the Met and that was Freud. Joni IS an artist and I think that is the JMDLs attraction to her. She kept on doing what Joni wanted to do making financial hits and misses but still following her own artistic vision, her painter's eye. Joni the folkie was adored, and Jonie the folkie expanded was adored. But she lost many fans when she got more experimental. It was hard to put a bow on her and bring her to market. Not too mention she criticizes the marketplace calling the record industry "corporate" plus she didn't tour for years. Now another one of my favorite musicians is Jimmy Buffet. He had his one hit "Margaritaville" and then most people can't think of too, much else, except maybe 'Cheeseburger in Paradise". Now I am not saying Jimmy is in Joni's league and I really could careless to debate that point. Jimmy cites Joni as an artistic influence but I doubt that he would cite her as a marketing influence. Jimmy stopped getting airplay and got blacklisted by the music industry, but instead of just bitching, Jimmy got busy. Jimmy started marketing his music as shrewdly as Microsoft markets software. He wasn't just creating music, he was creating music for a particular lifestyle. It was music for people who liked ballads,boats , bars and beaches. I was introduced to it when I was at the College of the Virgin Islands majoring in sailboats, sandcastles and suntanning. Jimmy knew he had a following. He kept touring every summer building his audience. The concerts kept getting bigger and Jimmy kept making more albums. The concerts became legendary mini mardi-gras! Spinning Jimmy off into best selling books, several cafes, a mailorder business, and an income of over 50 million a year. And Jimmy's music hasn't been all one big McCheeseburger in paradise. He has been an artist in his own right. Melting the sounds of rock, country, reggae, calypso, salsa, jazz into a tasty blend. But while he has been busy being the artist, he has gotten his horse and cart to the market each summer and that has made all the difference along with the fact that Jimmy also recognizes there are generally two kinds of fan. The one that knows and maybe owns only one album "Songs you know by heart" aka "his greatest hits" and the fans who buy everything and know every song lyric. So Jimmy's attitude is a little different. He includes the greatest hits in just about every show while he mixes in the other albums and the new songs. His latest project has been a musical. He collaborated with noted author Herman Woulk to turn 'Dont stop de Carnival' into a musical and he's trying to get it to Broadway. Jimmy has said that he plays for the public and dances for his supper each night. He said that it would be a different play list if he was playing for himself. So my advice to Joan is keep on painting and playing what ever you want. We will be there to buy everything: the books, the sheet music, the CDS. We'll travel cross country and across oceans not only to see you but also to see each other. But if this is not enough, then you might want to give Mr. Buffet a call, I am sure he will be flattered and I am sure we could all stand a concert every summer that mixes in your greatest hits with the songs you would like to play. - -Chili ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 09:08:28 EDT From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Jackson Browne Howdy! Last Valentine's Day we were up in your neck o' the woods, had lunch at Gilda's on the pier in Santa Cruz, etc. We listened to KPIG the whole time - they're great! I'm still trying to find out the name of the Joni song they played, that made me cry...one of her very confessional "foolish love" tunes, is the only way I can describe it. I'm still quite new to her (I only have Blue, and my new husband has Ladies Of The Canyon, Court & Spark, Miles Of Aisles, and Night Ride Home - we just merged our collections! :), but have felt almost karmically drawn to her music for months now. Cheers, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 09:37:19 EDT From: Dreamzvill@aol.com Subject: Re: I need 90 minutes of song and your input on what they mean... This was just so creative and OUT THERE I chuckled through the entire reading of it. Go, man, go!!! - Susan C./Dreamzville- Morro Bay, Ca. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 14:41:51 +0100 From: "Philipf" Subject: Re: TTT noises >David Marine wrote: > >"Does anyone else hear a strange distortion on track 2, 2:41 and track 3, In general I'm not thrilled with the mastering. It's a very loud cd and tends to distort in some players. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 10:03:07 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: The last one in the Trilogy:Making art v. Making Money and Joni and Jimi - -----Original Message----- From: Chilihead2@aol.com To: joni@smoe.org Date: Saturday, October 03, 1998 8:09 AM Subject: The last one in the Trilogy:Making art v. Making Money and Joni and Jimi Hi, Brian and all. You wrote about Buffet and his marketing skills: >Jimmy started marketing his music as shrewdly as Microsoft markets software. >And Jimmy's music hasn't been all one big McCheeseburger in paradise. He has >been an artist in his own right. Melting the sounds of rock, country, reggae, >calypso, salsa, jazz into a tasty blend. But while he has been busy being >the artist, he has gotten his horse and cart to the market each summer and >that has made all the difference And guess what JBuffet's major was in college with his earned degree in business? That's right, MARKETING! :-) Marsha, knows there are more parrothead/beach bums disguised in suits than there are "chick music" diggers out there, and would certainly support a Joni Mitchell Arthouse/Coffee Shop/Bookstore/Tobacco Emporium should she decide to go that route ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 15:11:01 +0100 From: "Twomey" Subject: Song To A Seagull- Remastered? Hi all, Did someone mention a remastered HDCD version of Song To A Seagull? I'm surprised I've never heard of this. I was always a bit disappointed with the "muffled" production on STAS and hoped for some kind of clean-up. Has anyone heard this? Is there a big difference? Sean :-) (been lurking for *ages* and then when it's TTT time I manage to discuss Joni #1!! Typical!) Kate Bush News & Information http://www.clubi.ie/twomey/katebush.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 10:39:12 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: No TTT on San Antonio Radio In a message dated 9/29/98 9:27:58PM, LRFye@aol.com writes: << Tom patiently explained to me the reasons their station will probably not be playing anything from TTT: 1) Joni doesn't fit their format. (I disagreed with Tom on this; they play Jewel, Sarah, Alanis, Paula, Sheryl, etc. Tom's opinion is that Joni belongs on a classic rock station. >> Jesus, doesn't this just make you spit?? Whose idea was formatting? I guess I'm lucky to live in London, where we have a great local station, GLR - the BBC station for London - which has no formatting, and is sure to play TTT. Azeem in London NP: The Jo Whiley show on telly. Very cool (and extremely sexy and beautifully pregnant) DJ with a music based chat show; one of the guests is Bjork, who recently, as we have seen, escaped the flood of Joni's scattergun opprobium, being described as a "fiery little thing"; she's also a true original, and a seemingly bullshit free woman. No wonder Joni rates her. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 11:27:55 -0700 From: Anne Madden Subject: People Review of TTT Not sure if anyone has posted this already. October 5th edition of People magazine has the following review of TTT - "Mitchell is 54, and we probably shouldn't have expected anyone to teach an old folk-jazz singer new tricks. But then Mitchell's fans probably would argue that she wasn't broke, so why fix her? Which is to say that this, while it's Mitchell's first album of new songs in four years, isn't anything all that new. Her voice is still a little toneless, her delivery a trifle cold. Her songs are still full of acerbic wit, distant poetry (including Blake in the title rune) and the occasional lapse in taste. Mitchell is also still able to attract first-rate talent, such as Wayne Shorter, whose soprano sax decorates six of the album's 11 tracks. Her ex-husband Larry Klein appears too, playing bass on three cuts. Mitchell is used to travelling in fast company; she performs on pianist Herbie Hancock's new CD and has just finished touring with Bob Dylan and Van Morrison. She's that rate commodity - a popular entertainer who can be relied on to consistently product quality material. R.N. Bottom Line: Still plenty of music left, despite the years" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 10:56:55 -0500 From: Alan Subject: Natalie Merchant's Ophelia (NJC) I just wanted to second Chili's opinion about Natalie Merchant's Ophelia. I really enjoyed this album. One thing that did annoy me though... they clearly spent extra $ on the packaging, all those great multiple-personality photos, but they didn't include a lyric sheet! (at least my copy didn't, did I just get an incomplete package?) I love Natalie's voice, but her unique timbre occasionally comes at the expense of clarity. Anyway, my initial internet search for lyrics when the album first came out was fruitless. But today, I searched again and found one at: http://www2.xtdl.com/~franktd//natalie/lyrics/ophelia.shtml I saved that baby to text, printed it small and stuffed it in the cd case. Alan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:05:42 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: VG-8 *SOMEBODY* WROTE LORI I think I am accurate on the VG8. It is an attachment into which one would > plug a guitar and then plug it into an amp. The VG8 manipulates the sound > and tuning of the music that comes in and sends it out to the amp. What Joni > plays into the guitar gets rearranged in the VG8 and goes out to the amp. And so I wonder: does this mean that the chord "shapes" have changed for joni and that she now plays in conventional tuning--I can't believe that. that would make life entirely different and in some ways difficult for her wouldn't it? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:26:05 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: Janis & Joni & Q mag's appreciation of BOTH chili i just want to tell you--last year Q mag did a "hundred greatest acoustic guitar songs of all time" piece and joni was in there of course--for black crow. and if I am not mistaken, so was at seveteen. Janis' of course. they wrote a neat description of it's expertise--i wish I had it to quote for you. somebody who subscribes must! ask around. raymond p.s. don't wanna get into joni's arrogance and "pomposity"--too far anyway, for now. Will say that I alternately am a bit turned off (by it) and then too, take the view that we just don't know what she has gone through. (It also makes me laugh sometimes it is so consistent and so vehement!). I remember, in the big Vanity Fair piece of about a year and a half ago her former manager Eliott Roberts (I think it was him--it was somene who knew the score) saying, "she was treated very, very badly." Don't know how *exactly*, but there it stands from someone who knew her and was involved for many many years. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:38:04 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: VG-8 (NJC) pj wrote: > What Joni plays into the guitar gets rearranged in the VG8 and goes out to the amp. Ray responded: > And so I wonder: > > does this mean that the chord "shapes" have changed for joni and that she > now plays in conventional tuning--I can't believe that. that would make life > entirely different and in some ways difficult for her wouldn't it? I'm going to guess that Joni plays the songs the way she wrote them, but that the actual guitar is never tuned, except perhaps to calibrate the strings for correct tension. The strings may be tuned to standard, but that wouldn't be necessary. Joni's fingers "do the talking" and the resulting frequencies go through the VG-8 and are transformed into the desired tuning. VG-8ers, am I close? Lori, who used to repair radar in the USAF but who barely remembers anything about frequency conversions after living for 3 years a short train ride from Amsterdam ... but there's a dim light glowing ... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:54:59 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Joni Nightmare! Yes, the worst one yet. I dreamt that I'd purchased tix for her upcoming Detroit concert (a real nightmare, btw) and when I got to the stadium, found that my seat was waaay up front. God, I was so thrilled. As soon as I sat down, though, I found a big wall right in front of my face- a black wall- obstructing most of the view. How depressing! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:05:06 -0500 From: Mary Pitassi Subject: Joni Synchronicity / outright weirdness Mark in Seattle wrote: "Kakki wrote: > > Just heard that Gene Autry died this morning at the age of 91. > > Kakki Ok this is too weird. 'Here's to You' was just finishing up as I read this." I've got one to match that, Mark. On Wednesday evening, I was driving off to meet some friends after work, with "Crazy Cries of Love" from my brand new TTT CD playing in my car. In a nanosecond toward the end of the line "as that train comes rolling by," I: 1) marveled that I had never heard the train whistle sound effect on the track before; 2) realized that my car was squarely over a set of railroad tracks, and 3) a train was indeed coming (albeit slowly) straight at me! After I recovered--and got myself off the tracks--I thought it was all very funny. Mary P. P.S. No irreverence toward Gene meant. He'll be missed. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 13:17:41 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: VG-8 As long as we are talking about the VG-8 my question has to do with it's dynamic range. On Hejira the fender she uses has a wonderful high end and middle range and then lets the bass of Jaco fill out the bottom end. With the VG-8 it sounds like there is no high end at all and the mid range is muddy. Is this simply because of the way Joni sets the tone controls of her guitar or amp or is this a problem with the VG-8. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:17:42 -0500 From: Mary Pitassi Subject: Joni bumper stickers Carole wrote, in response to Marsha's announcement of her new "vanity plate": "> Ah Marsha, tiz a lovely idea. I've long desired the >pleasure of having a Joni bumbersticker on my car. I'm surprised that there >seems never have been any available. If there is enough interest out there >(gulp), I would be willing to look into getting some printed up. If anyone is >interested, let me know." I think this is a great idea! Although I wouldn't have the foggiest notion of how to see this project through to completion, I'd certainly purchase the finished product(s)! That reminds me: yesterday, while in Milwaukee, I was parked behind a Jeep-like vehicle sporting a brightly-colored bumper sticker with the words, "we've got to get ourselves back to the garden" featured prominently. Although there was (unfortunately) no attribution to JM, it was still good to see this sticker on the road. Perhaps they were sold at the Day at the Garden event last month? As a last thought: we've talked a great deal about promotion of Joni's work, both by her management company and by Joni herself. Wouldn't it be funny and somewhat fitting if Joni bumper stickers began sprouting up on highways and city streets all around the world and achieving increased "visibility" for JM, not as a result of any official effort, but rather, from a grassroots groundswell of long-standing appreciation?! Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 13:40:15 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Nightmare! Terry wrote: > As soon as I sat down, though, I found a big wall right in front of my face- a black wall-obstructing most of the view. Everyone together now, and loudly: "Just like Jericho ..." Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 12:40:57 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Vote Deadline Hi everyone, Step Right Up! Vote now! Send the number of your choice to: vote@jmdl.com Voting ends tonight at midnight,EST. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 13:46:30 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni bumper stickers Mary P. wrote: > As a last thought: we've talked a great deal about promotion of Joni's > work, both by her management company and by Joni herself. Wouldn't it be > funny and somewhat fitting if Joni bumper stickers began sprouting up on > highways and city streets all around the world and achieving increased > "visibility" for JM, not as a result of any official effort, but rather, > from a grassroots groundswell of long-standing appreciation?! What a purrrrr-fect plan! Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 14:14:55 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: TTT rvwed in Pittsburgh "Pittsburgh Post Gazette" columnist, Tony Norman gave TTT 3 1/2 stars. (On the same page he reviewed Sheryl Crow's "The Globe Sessions" --- 4 stars.) "After initially giving "Turbulent Indigo," Joni Mitchell's last album a lukewarm review, I was belatedly seduced by its sensuous grooves and literate scatting about the doomed relationships at the center of modern life. Several Grammys later, "TI" vindicated Mitchell's dogged determination to stick close to her jazzy, idiosyncratic muse. After abandoning the breezy, introspective folk-pop that characterized the first half of her career, Mitchell has studiously avoided the broad road leading to guaranteed radio airplay in favor of the narrow road of weird tunings and fiercely poetic lyrics. It's clear she's in no hurry to record "Court and Spark II." But to her relief and the surprise of the record business, the public finally seems willing to reward her for sailing off the edge of the world in pursuit of a vision that violates all the principles of 4/4 time. But a funny thing happened on the way to a more triumphant obscurity: Joni Mitchell has crafted an immensely album, arguably her most accessible since (dare I say it?) "Court and Spark." Ten original songs deep and one cover ("My Best to You"), Mitchell is in top form as a wise and passionate avatar of '60's idealism who has long ago adjusted to a postmodern, post-romantic world. With lyrics that give up their meaning the first time around instead of insisting on a long, drawn-out chase, Mitchell hasn't been this generous about the details of what moves her to tears, laughter and confusion in 20 years. While she still posits an obligatory rant against the corruption of the recordeing business and its short-sighted businessmen on "Lead Balloon," she's just as likely to confess her joy and anxiety about finding her daughter 30 years after puttting her up for adoption ("Stay in Touch") and the fun she had scandalizing her elderly mother by shacking up with her boyfriend in a hotel near the family home. Mitchell isn't breaking any new ground here, but she is reveling in a newfound confidence that she has earned an honorable place in the scheme of things on her own terms. Each song on TTT is lovely and well thought out, with losts of hooks and catchy sonic patterns thanks to such stellar sidemen as saxophonist Wayne Shorter, ex-husband Larry Klein, drummer Brian Blade and Greg Leisz on pedal steel. Thisis undoubtedly the best Joni Mitchell album in 15 years and ranks among her top five." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 13:15:19 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Fem Side No Problem! Heather wrote: "Is anyone going as Joni for Halloween this year? > > > I'm not sure but I have some video evidence that shows Michael Paz sporting > a blond wig! ;-D" Hey Heather- Yes that was me in a blond wig, but I really wasn't dressing up as Joni so much as stroking my fem side. I think I look rather Nellie, more than Joni, don't you? I now consider Ashara to be more Felini like that Feline like as I perceived her before. Have a great weekend! Love Michael ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 14:59:55 -0400 From: heather Subject: Re: Joni Nightmare! At 12:54 PM 10/3/98 EDT, you wrote: >Yes, the worst one yet. I dreamt that I'd purchased tix for her upcoming >Detroit concert (a real nightmare, btw) and when I got to the stadium, found >that my seat was waaay up front. God, I was so thrilled. As soon as I sat >down, though, I found a big wall right in front of my face- a black wall- >obstructing most of the view. How depressing! > This looks like a job for .... taddada da ta daaaaaa ... Dr. Sigmond! Who is able to solve strange nightmares with a single .... Who goes where no psychiatrist has gone before! Who always gets his mouse ... Oops ... I watched waaay too much TV when I was little! Heather ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 15:21:47 EDT From: SDWS10@aol.com Subject: joni trying to post....is this right?? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 15:23:44 -0400 From: trxschwa Subject: joni in ny folks, i'm hoping to coordinate with other nyers this evening and tomorrow about getting tix on monday for the nov 1 show at madison square garden. pricing is $75, $55 and $35. please post to me if you're interested in helping or acquiring. patrick np - tiger bones ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 15:34:51 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: My 2 cent review... Before I start with the review, if anyone wants a copy of the USA today with Joni article & pic, let me know, otherwise I'll toss it in the recycle bin. Reviewing a new Joni record is tough, because you instantly put it up against her past work, and anything is going to have rough competition with Blue, Hejira, DJRD, CnS, etc. Sidebar comment: Does anyone else think it incredible that HOSL, Hejira, & DJRD all came out in a span of only three years? Her muse was really working overtime back then! Anyway, my point is, these earlier works are part of our very souls, like old friends, and TTT is like comparing someone you met just this week to your High School/College buddies - it can be very tricky. So I'm trying to review TTT not against her past work, but rather in and of itself. First, the packaging. I paid $15.99 for mine at Manifest Discs, more than I usually shell out for a new disc but when you consider the pretty colored disc (no confusing TTT with anything else and having it wind up in a different jewel box), the lyrics, the paintings, it's visually a stunning little art gallery! Now, the tracks: 1. Harlem in Havana - Instantly fresh sounding, Joni goes back in time and sings with the excitement of a teenager discovering the taboos and mysteries of another world. When she sings "It's....Haaaaarrrrrlem in Havaaaana" with that vocal swoop of hers, I literally get chills. 2. Man From Mars - The dead-on prettiest song of the set, the singing and sound is as melancholy as it needs to be to emote the lyrics. To me, the boo- hoo lyric is a follow-up to "to say 'I love you' right out loud", only this time she's crying out loud, and she doesn't need to write a set of cryptic dual-meaning lyrics to convey the emotion. The loss and sadness are more easily felt with the simpler lyric. "The Silence is so full of Sounds - you're in them all" says volumes in a simple way. 3. Love Puts On a New Face/The Crazy Cries of Love/Stay in Touch/Face Lift/TTT - - All I can say about these so far is that I enjoy the sound except for the synthsizers. I know I said I wasn't going to compare this one with previous, but the real strings and woodwinds color her FTR and CnS so much, it only leaves me wishing that she had the budget/desire to include them here. I'm sure with time I'll discover new rewards from these tracks. 4. Lead Balloon - I love the uniqueness of the sound on this one, I wish it was sandwiched between TTT & Crazy Cries to help break up the sameness - I do love to sing the "porky-piggish" "Lead, Lead, Lead, Lead, Lead Ballooooon!" To me the guitars aren't up high enough in the mix to be bothersome. Indeed, my complaint with most of these songs is that Blades' drumming is way low in the sound. 5. My Best to You - Placed where it is on the disc, it seems to me to be the "Sincerely Yours" to those of us who have been keeping up with her - a rare attempt to be extroverted instead of introspective pass on the wisdom of age; "Each new day is a kiss, sent from up above". Not her song, which we all know, but after all the other emotions expressed here a nice way to wrap it all up and put it in perspective, and she makes the decades-old tune her own. 6. Tiger Bones - plays while the credits are rolling, not required here but not objectionable either. Too short? Maybe, but add the Eastwood track, the Gershwin stuff, and Joni's studio stuff for '98 shouldn't disappoint anybody. Respectfully submitted, Bob M. in SC NP: Face Lift ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:31:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Joni bumper stickers - ---Lori wrote: > > Mary P. wrote: > > > As a last thought: we've talked a great deal about promotion of Joni's > > work, both by her management company and by Joni herself. Wouldn't it be > > funny and somewhat fitting if Joni bumper stickers began sprouting up on > > highways and city streets all around the world and achieving increased > > "visibility" for JM, not as a result of any official effort, but rather, > > from a grassroots groundswell of long-standing appreciation?! > > What a purrrrr-fect plan! Especially if we jmdlers the world over began sticking Joni bumper stickers to EVERY vehicle we could !! Friends, neighbors, countrymen - lend me your bumpers!! Brian np: Sandy Denny 3-cd box set "Who Knows Where The Time Goes?" === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 15:54:14 EDT From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: Make Art-Buy Joni Maybe if we do these bumper stickers and they should be pretty, we could give any profits to Les and Wally to help with their respective sites? Just a thought, - -Chili (who's surprised he hasn't been burned into a chipotle because of his recent posts) - --((((()))~ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 15:26:09 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: JMHP/Liner Notes You know, I really think Joni should have given Wally credit in the liner notes of TTT. Just a thought, ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | | | "Every disc a poker chip, every | | song just a one-night stand." | | -Joni Mitchell | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 16:27:10 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Re: Howard's post At 07:03 PM 10/2/98 -0500, Howard M, the famous video guy from Chicago,wrote: >metal. I don't want all folk or acoustic or no changes in a person's >musical career but I also don't want monotony in tone or texture or >melody. Howard Moytl, I completely agree here---where's the piano? My impressions of TTT have changed a bit from the first day I bought it. I've been listening to TTT a couple of times a day, and indeed, Im growing fond of it. (I love Man from Mars.) But Im not sure that the reason it's growing on me is due to my desire to make it work, because of my experience of being a part of this list. I **do** think that too many songs sound the same....in fact, it's as if the painter and the poet in her have taken the upper hand: she is singing her poetry. Maybe it has something to do with how she "somehow bungles tying choruses and verses together." Now for a little projection: To me, Joni's lyrics seem to reflect her overall attitude of irritation and isolationist-habits to a greater degree. Yes, she is in love again, but I get the feeling that her world includes an inreasingly small inner-circle of people she is close to, (but who isn't that true of when reaching a certain age?!?! But mentioning people at her local cafe?!?!) "Man From Mars", she sings with such feeling---it's so sad and touching: But it's about a cat, I wish I didn't know that. Although she says that Kilauren and Marlin have filled a hole in her life, I get the sense that she's not having as much fun these days. Even in the throes of her new found love, it seems she manages to hear the faint ticking of a time bomb counting down to the time when it's over. >>Last thought. Joni said this morning, her painting is more important to he >>than her music. That is where she spends her time. I think TTT says that. I >>think the best quality to the whole disc is the cover. That is where the rich >>detail is we're used to hearing. Only now it is seen, not heard. The cover >>shows the present Joni best. Even better than the music. I agree with this too... The passion and feeling of her paintings are a sincere example of how beautiful expressions of art can become so powerful and persuasive...even seductive...and how the power of 'packaging,' which is typically not so true and sincere---can feel manipulative. Upon opening up the cd and undressing it, I wanted to like the music partially because of those beautiful paintings. The art work, right down to the cd to the painting of the cat imbedded in the cd holder----is very moving . (Id love to see a thread reviewing each painting.) >When I heard Trouble Man, I was stoked for TTT--this was a Joni singing >like I had rarely heard her, with heart, soul and lungs poured into the >songs. I love her rendition of "Trouble Man!" In fact I've decided that Id love to see her go into the direction of bringing her unique style to other people's music. Howard writes: >I am the same Howard who wrote the post about TTT and received two >responses, one from pj, privately and here, and one privately from >another person. I was surprised at this. I have felt snubbed in the >past few weeks by the list when I post. As pj said, shunned, like an >Amish shunning. I felt this before pj said anything about it. Howard, I think, at times, everybody on this list feels this way. It's part of the dynamics of internet communication. Im pretty up front about struggling with this as well, and I've decided, for the most part, it's a reflection of my own insecurity. I also think that there are a lot more people who agree with 'this or that,' but typically don't send emails stating "Way to Go, Bro!" Although at times, the jmdl, seems to be a feedback/response forum: This is not often the case. It's never clear to me why one thread is more apt to fly over another. And it's rarely personal. One of the most popular posters from way back, posted a humorous JC thread to add onto and no one responded: I have no idea why. I guess if anybody expects to be stimulated with a response or counter-opinion, they are in for a disappointment...and then just when you think no one is going to respond to something you've thrown out----- it happens. Also, the people who often post are the minority of the list----and they hardly make up a focus group, especially if the membership is as high as it is. No response/feedback does not mean you are being shunned. (I've been pleasantly surprised and encouraged by private emails and at various Jonifests, when people come up to me---complimenting me on a NJC movie review or my opinion on a jc thread that I had long forgotten about.) I also think that a lot of people are hesitant to express anything negative, controversial or even NJC subjects that semi-relate. I know this is so, because I get more email than I ever have before---from people who, for whatever reason, choose not to express their opinions on this list. There is also a majority of the jmdlers on digest, who complain that once they find the time to read the digest and post----the thread is too old. And then there also the few who inhibit themselves, because they truly believe that Joni might be reading the list, which I sincerely doubt, but I can appreciate that perspective Howard, as well as the other Howard, I think I speak for many in saying that we enjoy your contributions here. -JulieZW ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 16:53:49 EDT From: WirlyPearl@aol.com Subject: TTT Review in Entertainment Weekly Hi guys, Just got the latest issue Entertainment Weekly and it has a great photo and review of Taming The Tiger. (It's combined with Cherly Crow's Globe Sessions.) BARE NECESSITIES On Tamine the Tiger and Globe Sessions, soul-searchers Joni Mitchell and Sheryl Crow take turns in the confessional. By Ken Tucker How much do you tell and how do you tell it. These are the questions of the heart of bothe Joni Mitchell's Taming the Tiger and Sheryl Crow's The Globe Sessions, collections that otherwise diverge sharply, as their authors pursue their prickly, eccentric, but mutually exclusive obsessions. Taming the Tiger is Mitchell's first release of new material since 1994's Turbulent Indigo, a Best Pop Album Grammy winner. This was a startlingly unexpected award for a record that had, like any number of Mitchell's immediately previous albums, sold weakly and left nary a dent on the music scene. So I'd be surprised if the encouragement of the Grammy-- combined with the widely reported 1997 reunion of Mitchell with the daughter she'd given up for adoption decades ago--didn't court and spark what is most obvious on Tiger: a renewed interest in openness, in reaching out to a wider audience after years of stubborn insularity. Mitchell said in a recent interview the the tentatively tender "Stay in Touch" is about getting to know her now grown daughter, Kilauren, and the "Facelift" is an affectionately sardonic response to an argument Joni had with her 86 year old mother. Mitchell hasn't permitted herself such autobiographical freedom in ages, and you can hear the relief in the music, in the way the massed guitars (primarily Mitchell's own, endlessly overdubbed) (guess he doesn't know about the VG-8) surge and swoop with exhilerating abandon, borne aloft by Brian Blade's airy drumming and the periodic flutter of a Wayne Shorter sax fill. Mitchell invokes William Blake in the title song--her "tiger, tiger burning brightly' is the same avid creature of naked ambition the led Blake to marvel "Did he who made the Lamb make thee?" where Blake's "stars threw down theif spears," for Mitchell they "chuck down their spears." Like the English mystical poet, Mitchell is an artistic autodidact (?), experimenting with guitar tunings and jazz bohemianism the way Blake did poetic meter and religious iconography. Ther are a couple of songs ("No Apologies"; the middle section of "Taming the Tiger") marred by the sort of socio-political commentary the made 1985's Dog Eat Dog so trying, but even on these the music is lush and enveloping. Thirty-one years after getting a record deal, the kid from Saskatoon has found a way to have (as she recently said of Noel Coward), "so much skill and so much to say without being heavy" Taming the Tiger A - Rating He gave The Globe Sessions an A - too. I think this guy really likes Blake too. I Ther's also a big articly called Viva las Divas and lists Barbra, Madonna, Mariah,Whitney, Celine and lots more, but surprisingly, considering she's reviewed in this issue, they left out our Joni. Do you think she's a diva? Pearl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 14:16:46 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Joni Queen Ungrateful At 09:20 PM 10/2/98 EDT, Chilihead2@aol.com wrote: >Imagine Joni doing that? Doubt it! She >bitched about being paid $450K for "A Day in the Garden". Lately thinking Joni >is SIQUOMB-She is Queen Ungrateful Of Materialism and Bitching. I guess I missed something here. I seem to remember a thread about whether or not it was fair that Joni was paid less than Dylan, but was she quoted, accurately, and if so, was it "bitching?" or more like lamenting the status quo, which is that women performers, including Joni, have often been treated as second class. Chili, I think it's wrong to call her "queen ungrateful." She's definitely jaded by the record industry and as you know she's going to tell it like she sees it, because "Joni Mitchell Never Lies." :-) The quotes I remember are those when she has thanked the record buying public, the ones who have helped support her, and in turn offered her the chance to keep making albums. Last night I was talking to a JMDLer who was among the fortunate ones attending the taping of the PPV special and once again it was reaffirmed that Joni was extremely gracious and humble when in the company of her admirers. So unless you were there, and heard the words and the tone, and know the context and the background, I think it's unfair to twist around the SIQUOMB acronym. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 16:13:07 -0500 From: Mary Pitassi Subject: RE: Good Morning, Morgantown? I really like Wolfebite Doug's suggestion the choice of "Morgantown" as the name of the city in Joni's song plays on the German "morgen," whether Joni intended that or not! She describes the morning there so vividly that the double emphasis on morning seems appropriate. As the whether an actual "Morgantown" meant anything to Joni: knowing JM's bio from a fairly early age, and not seeing room in it for any more than a passing familiarity on Joni's part with Morgantown, WV or any other city of that name, I guess I always assumed that Joni chose "Morgantown" for the mood it evoked in the song--and perhaps because the syllables fit! There might be an actual, familiar place on which Joni based the town in the song, but I'd personally be very surprised if it were called "Morgantown." Besides, Joni implies that the location of the hopes and dreams she describes is not really all that important: "Morning, any town you name / Morning's just the same." Mary P. - --who grew up not too far away from Wheeling, WV, but doesn't know much about Morgantown! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:22:41 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: TTT / Gershwin Tribute / music coupons From: "Wong, Kai" >>Can anyone tell me who gets paid on these tribute albums? Will the performers >>get paid for each song or will all profits go to joni? The performers earn artist royalties and Joni splits mechanical license (publishing) royalties with her publisher (which is herself if she owns her own publishing company). - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 16:31:24 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Tiny Town (NJC) CHECK THIS OUT!! October 13 @ 9:00 PM - Tiny Town/Keb 'Mo Live http://www.liveconcerts.com/event/ This should be a great show. Love Michael ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 18:26:14 +0000 From: BarBearUh Subject: Re: charging for TTT/Van Gogh hiya folks. i am desperately trying to catch up with two weeks of digests here. so many things i'd like to comment on, but there's work to be done because... > November 5, 1998 College Park, Maryland--(Thursday) > Cole Field House > YIPPEEEEEE. i've been agonizing over whether to go to NYC or not because i'm so friggin' busy that the stress might not be worth it (if she was headlining, i'd be there for sure). now she's gonna be in my neighborhood, and good old synchronicity is kicking in with the 1-2-3 of the concert, the PPV, and the van gogh. i had the very wonderful privilege of seeing a private viewing of vincent today (a friend works for the corporate sponsor of the exhibit). we even got free posters - i got one of the wheat fields with crows, though the poster is a mere trifle compared to the real thing. if any of you are on the fence about this, get off! the exhibit is just phenomenal. paintings that i never thought much about turned out to be just amazing. any picture you've ever seen of 'the bedroom' is monochrome compared to the real thing. these paintings are just bursting with color. my favorite was a very gray painting, the name i can't remember - something like "schevenigen beach with approaching storm". it was his first or one of his first paintings. i had to go back 6 times to look at it again - it almost made me cry it was so sweet. the paint was thick and heavy - perfect cloud and wave goo. Mark Domyancich wrote: > > Just outta curiousity, how much did everyone spend for TTT, not > including > tax or shipping? (I'm only wondering about USers). From what I have > read, > everyone has paid about $13.99. i probably ended up paying something like $9 or 10, and i'm sure joni gets the same amount of cash no matter what you pay for it. i advanced ordered from music blvd like so: $11.88 TTT $11.88 pj harvey $26.88 van - double cd, philosopher's stone (unreleased tracks - great stuff) $11.88 emmylou harris - spyboy $00.99 shipping for a total of $62.52 minus $12.99 credit (frequent buyers buy 10 get 1 free) minus $10 coupon - URL from some wonderful jmdler = $40.52 for 5 cds delivered to my door on wednesday (didn't go for the extra charge for day of release shipping). i have another order arriving monday with three more new releases nicely priced at $11.88 plus credit from another $5 coupon. all that's to say i've been pretty happy doing business with music blvd - it's cut my CD costs significantly and has cut out the frustrations of dealing with know-nothing clerks in box stores with bad selections, bad atmosphere, bad parking, bad karma. november. barbara np: pj ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 15:34:59 -0700 From: daricem@sfpl.lib.ca.us Subject: JC-ebay I just checked ebay and there are some tasty items for auctin. Joni songbook Vol 1 TTT-promo cd and phots the Lenore Fleischman(sp) bio and original Grace of my Heart cd Good shopping www.ebay.com Darice ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 18:37:58 -0700 From: Anne Madden Subject: Lillith NJC Someone stated that the Lillith Fair was ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, but I don't agree. I went to the one last year as well as this year. I didn't go because I'm a feminist - I went because of the artists and I wasn't disappointed. This year in addition to Sarah, Liz Phair, Natalie Merchant and my all-time favourite, Emmylou Harris performed, so please don't be insulting by calling this great event, "ridiculous" ...... NOT! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:43:09 EDT From: JAN201@aol.com Subject: Oct. 4 NY Times Hi guys- Sunday's New York Times magazine has a fairly big article about our Joni. Not a terribly flattering portrayal, kind of typically Joni, a bit full of herself perhaps. I love the artist that is Joni Mitchell, but I'm not sure if I would have a lot of patience with Joni the woman. But I adore her and the music that she gives me is a generous gift indeed! And let's face it, being an artist of that caliber comes with a price tag. I'm curious to read what the rest of you will say about the article. Lead Balloon is screaming around in my head! Best- Jan in Hoboken ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 19:03:58 -0400 (EDT) From: pswmusic@interport.net (Esquizito) Subject: Re: VG-8 (and vintage radio Joni) Hi kidz, back from New Olreans (Yo Paz!) and am this much closer to the actual move. My understanding of the VG-8 and why our girl uses it is as follows: she can pre-program her various tunings, then recall them with a foot controller click. I'll try to be clear with this. The VG-8 takes a standard tuned guitar and electronically pitch shifts the open strings the whatever the user programs. So, Joni's fingerings do not change from when she originally wrote and played all of her classic material. The strings don't do any of the work, the pickup's signals are "virtualized" and manipulated electronically, i.e. pitch, tembre, tone, effects etc. Does that make sense? It's somewhere in between a guitar synth and a standard electric. Now, I got home late Thursday night, turned on my radio (I threw out my TV years ago,) and there was Joni, speaking, circa 1970, on Bob Fass's Radio Unamable - WBAI. From time to time Bob plays some of his archive tapes and this one seemed to be focusing on someone named Ratso (Grateful Dead?) I was not getting too many of the references but they were also discussing a concert tour/festival through Canada. Did anyone else hear this? I'm just loging back on to the list now. Esquizito www.interport.net/~pswmusic P.S. What did I miss RE: 11-1-98? I still aint got no tix (need 2.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 00:08:33 +0100 From: catman Subject: NJC concert Just got back from seeing Dar at the Queen Elizabeth Hall. I also met Rob and Jamie Jake. Unfortunately I missed David. My dog sitter thought 6.05 pm was the same as 5pm so we were very late and didn't meet Rob and Jamie for food beforehand. Rob was just as I expected, friendly and shy. Jamie was not what i expected at all, very pleasant tho he was. God that souinds rude-I merely mean his physical looks were not macthed with the picture I had built in my mind. You know what I am clumsily trying to say! O h and Dar was excellent too!(I must be getting old tho as I kept wishing they would turn it down a bit!). I am so ignorant about music-I had no idea all that noise can be amde by just one guitar-I always thought it was more than one instrument and asked Rob if there had been a backing tape-no there hadn't. John thought she was an excellent guitarist-I wouldn't know. As with Joni, I just like what i hear and know nothing about how it came to be. just as well really or might end up sounding like a pseud!(You should hear the way me and my dog/cat friends talk about ribs and shoulder placement and nose leathers and tail set and noses-like did you see the conk on that!-Good job we aren't 'bred'-we'd all get thrown out of the ring) - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #391 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?