From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #387 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, October 2 1998 Volume 03 : Number 387 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Nashville@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com Orlando@jmdl.com -Tampa@jmdl.com Sunrise@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: NJC pedal steel, guitar stuff [heather ] Details review [Michael Yarbrough ] My TTT review is better than you'd think [Michael Yarbrough ] (NJC) Apologies for dupe post [Michael Yarbrough ] Lead Balloon Manifesto ["Kakki" ] TTT Australia/PP View [Helen Gill ] AOL Instant Messenger ? (NJC) ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Ms. Exclamation Point & Joni as Sir Walter Raleigh!!! [Gellerray@aol.com] TTT questions [FredNow@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 22:48:03 -0400 From: heather Subject: Re: NJC pedal steel, guitar stuff Gee ... no one has mentioned Ellen McIlwaine. She does a pretty mean job with a guitar slide. If anyone gets a chance to see her play, please go see her. You won't be disappointed. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:51:09 -0400 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Details review From the October 1998 issue: Joni Mitchell was the original queen of emo-folk; now she sings cool, jazzy songs about having the grace and wisdom to not give a damn. The title track is a shimmering meditation on leaving the pop life behind, and she sets her crystalline voice among celestial keyboards and featherweight guitars, until she seems more impish than mature. Even though Mitchell inspired about a million female singer-songwriters, TTT sounds like the work of an eternal teenager, endlessly bemused by all the squares around her at a party. - --Michael NP: PJ Harvey, _Is This Desire?_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:38:57 -0400 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: My TTT review is better than you'd think Finally picked up a bona fide copy today ($13.99 for the bean-counters), and the CD format has improved my opinion a couple of notches. I was afraid for a while that it would rank down w/ CMIARS for me, but now I'm happy to say that I like it much more than that. I still don't expect it to make my year-end best list, but who cares anyway? :-) I don't mind the samey sound of the guitar, though I am wondering what's up with all the exclamation points on the lyric sheet. It's like reading email from a 14-year-old (present company excluded, of course ;-) ). Overall I'd give it a 7 out of 10. Track by track: Harlem in Havana: I can't say enough about how much I love this track! So experimental, but so accessible and fun and moving and real. I *really* wish she had done more in this direction. It suits her so well. And it's a great opening track for record store listening stations--way to market, Joni! ;-) 10 Man from Mars: I like this song much more than I did at first. I'm one of the unlucky ones who hasn't heard the Grace version, but I really like the spaciousness of the production here. Her vocal performance is very convincing. And believe it or not I didn't even notice the boo hoo lyric this time; maybe I've finally gotten inured to it (still think it was a mistake). 8 Love Put on a New Face: An unsung gem as far as I'm concerned. Focused, complete lyrics, joy tinged with complications. I really like the instrumentation effects, especially in the second verse. If I were the producer I would have axed Wayne Shorter on this track, though. IMO he just doesn't add much here, as opposed to Harlem or Face Lift. 8 Lead Balloon: This still sounds more like Poison than Led Zeppelin to me. 2 No Apologies: I agree with Steve and Mary's criticisms 100%. I love the way she sings the first verse, and Greg Leisz's coloring is beautiful, but generally this track doesn't work as well for me. Is it just me, or does something about the chorus recall a slowed down "Tide is High"? Maybe it's the drums. 6 Taming the Tiger: Luv luv luv the music on this one, and I still contend it sounds like a Kate Bush song. The lyrics don't do it for me, though, and there are times when it seems like Joni alliterates for alliteration's sake. 7 The Crazy Cries of Love: If the goddamn radio stations weren't programmed by corporate bozos, this would stand a real chance as an adult contemporary hit. Some of the best lyrics on the record, too; too bad they're not Joni's. 9 Stay in Touch: Dig it. A whole album of this would be wearisome, but I really like what it does by itself. Mark Isham's trumpet is beautiful. The lyrics are focused again, if a little vague. 8 Face Lift: Whoever posted about this sounding more immediate and intimate on disc is absolutely right. It really helps the song. 8 My Best to You: The production is my favorite thing about it; I don't really like the song much at all. It is an appropriate closer, though. 7 - --Michael NP: PJ Harvey, _Is This Desire?_ (talk about a departure!!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:48:30 -0400 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: My TTT review is not as bad as you'd think Finally picked up a bona fide copy today ($13.99 for the bean-counters), and the CD format has improved my opinion a couple of notches. I was afraid for a while that it would rank down w/ CMIARS for me, but now I'm happy to say that I like it much more than that. I still don't expect it to make my year-end best list, but who cares anyway? :-) I don't mind the samey sound of the guitar, though I am wondering what's up with all the exclamation points on the lyric sheet. It's like reading email from a 14-year-old (present company excluded, of course ;-) ). Overall I'd give it a 7 out of 10. Track by track: Harlem in Havana: I can't say enough about how much I love this track! So experimental, but so accessible and fun and moving and real. I *really* wish she had done more in this direction. It suits her so well. And it's a great opening track for record store listening stations--way to market, Joni! ;-) 10 Man from Mars: I like this song much more than I did at first. I'm one of the unlucky ones who hasn't heard the Grace version, but I really like the spaciousness of the production here. Her vocal performance is very convincing. And believe it or not I didn't even notice the boo hoo lyric this time; maybe I've finally gotten inured to it (still think it was a mistake). 8 Love Put on a New Face: An unsung gem as far as I'm concerned. Focused, complete lyrics, joy tinged with complications. I really like the instrumentation effects, especially in the second verse. If I were the producer I would have axed Wayne Shorter on this track, though. IMO he just doesn't add much here, as opposed to Harlem or Face Lift. 8 Lead Balloon: This still sounds more like Poison than Led Zeppelin to me. 2 No Apologies: I agree with Steve and Mary's criticisms 100%. I love the way she sings the first verse, and Greg Leisz's coloring is beautiful, but generally this track doesn't work as well for me. Is it just me, or does something about the chorus recall a slowed down "Tide is High"? Maybe it's the drums. 6 Taming the Tiger: Luv luv luv the music on this one, and I still contend it sounds like a Kate Bush song. The lyrics don't do it for me, though, and there are times when it seems like Joni alliterates for alliteration's sake. 7 The Crazy Cries of Love: If the goddamn radio stations weren't programmed by corporate bozos, this would stand a real chance as an adult contemporary hit. Some of the best lyrics on the record, too; too bad they're not Joni's. 9 Stay in Touch: Dig it. A whole album of this would be wearisome, but I really like what it does by itself. Mark Isham's trumpet is beautiful. The lyrics are focused again, if a little vague. 8 Face Lift: Whoever posted about this sounding more immediate and intimate on disc is absolutely right. It really helps the song. 8 My Best to You: The production is my favorite thing about it; I don't really like the song much at all. It is an appropriate closer, though. 7 - --Michael NP: PJ Harvey, _Is This Desire?_ (talk about a departure!!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 21:34:11 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: lost digets! From: "Deb Messling" Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:36:19 +0000 Help! I lost all my Joni mail today. (and ONLY my Joni mail -- go figure!). Is there a kind soul who could forward me today's digests?? I would appreciate it SO MUCH. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 23:26:36 -0400 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: (NJC) Apologies for dupe post Server troubles strike again. Sorry folks. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:56:38 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Lead Balloon Manifesto O.K. that does it. I can't stand by silent any longer hearing withering reactions to my beloved Lead Balloon. Maybe my interpretation of this song is way off but here is why I love it: I've never taken this song to be Joni's serious attempt at trying to compose a genuine rock song. To me it is a delicious parody, inside joke within inside joke, cliche after cliche and double entendre, both lyrically and musically. She's making fun of her R&R Hall of Fame status, she's devilishly saying "so you would like me to make commercial 'genuine junk food' music, O.K. I can do that." She employs fuzz tone and nearly every cliche rock riff you've ever heard. But all the while running through the music there is an overlay of the recognizable Joni sound, accentuated with the trilling of Wayne Shorter's sax. It's like Joni is saying "I am still here and really know exactly what I'm doing - it's a joke, folks." Come on, look at the lyrics - almost every line is a standard cliche, or at least cliches I've heard repeatedly my whole life like: must be the Irish blood, fight before you think, it's his town that went over like a lead balloon an angry man is just an angry man, but an angry woman - bitch heart of a Bonaparte I think she deliberately wrote a song using cliches to express her point that lots of commercial rock is a cliche. This song is the feisty, lighthearted piss on the record biz, upbeat counterbalance to the more pensive, but still scathing Taming the Tiger. Even though I think Lead Balloon is really meant as an inside joke, it still actually rocks to me and I like the surprise of it popping up unexpectantly in the middle of the album. And it's presence also belies any sentiment that the whole album sounds the same! Kakki NP: What else? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 14:06:35 +1000 (EST) From: Helen Gill Subject: TTT Australia/PP View oh gee, where is it? has anyone found it yet? are we ever going to get it? here in Australia, or Melbourne anyway, I am getting a lot of blank stares from Music shop owners.....Jody Mitchell you say? nah sooory... oh dear. oh and BTW can pay per view telly be taped? if so......you can guess what I'm about to ask.... Helen. Melbourne (TTTless) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 00:09:37 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: AOL Instant Messenger ? (NJC) Dear Jmdlers who use or have used AOL Instant Messenger: Before installing Windows 98 on Wednesday, I cleaned out my computer files, and I came across an obscene, 'AOL Instant Messenger' "chat wavesound" message, called "aoljerk." This was not part of an attachment, but somehow found itself nestled in one of my communication files. We have no idea where it came from. My question, to those of you long familiar with AOL IM, is it possible that recorded "wavesound" phrases, come with the installation packet? And if not, how is it that this obscene message--- got into my files? (Other than ICQ-ing with jmdlers, I've never been in a AOL "chat room" where I was chatting with a group of people.) Id appreciate information on this. The audio message, spoken by a standard, intimidating female voice, appears to be part of an assortment of "wavesounds" commonly used to ward off unwanted people who appear in chat rooms. This is completely understandable, given the nature of socializing with random people one hardly knows----- But still, although it gets the message across, it's extreme: The recording says: "Attention chatters, we have another potential asshole in this room Will all members activate their alert buttons immediately Let us all get this fucking jerk outta here" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 01:05:02 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Ms. Exclamation Point & Joni as Sir Walter Raleigh!!! mwyarbro wrote: I don't mind the samey sound of the guitar, though I am wondering what's up with all the exclamation points on the lyric sheet. It's like reading email from a 14-year-old (present company excluded, of course ;-) ). & Track by track:.... and I say (me ray): i am always tired from school so cannot respond in kind to your track by track analysis but will instead try to clip through and do an en toto (can never find that in the dictionary but i believe it means something--that i didn't invent it). First of all Joni has for sometime been Ms. Exclamation Point (don't ya know). Starting I guess with "fifteen bucks went up in smoke!" (?!) It usually feels to me like she really means it (!) but in a humourous almost self-mocking way. Mocking is too strong a word--I like it in her though; I think it's cute, and counteracts her sometimes dour Nordic cool (which I love too of course). Fire and ice fire and ice fire and ice. Reminds me too of how Mingus used to call her a hillbilly. For me, for sometime, the writing has been generally more labored, more deliberate, & somewhat more awkward than...the earlier days (o god I hope she and kilauren aren't sitting around the computer tonite!) I mean the sheer, seemingly effortless lyricism of, say, for the roses (the whole bloody album) or "people's parties"--it just poured out in those days, beautifully realized. The intellect is intact, and I believe the gift (I was thinking last night while moving about the kitchen who but joni would think of 'happiness is the best facelift'--wonderful, sophisticated and homespun all at once) but to me it can often lumber too. (I go in and out on that and feel guilty too saying it!!!) I also believe, from things she says, that this movement is, if not absolutely deliberate, then a result of her general restlessness, not wanting to reside in any one pocket or, god forbid, be a retreader. And I admire that--not even so much the refusal to "repeat" as much as I do the desire to explore. So even if it sometimes seems to be a gaffe, I think: she would never have been able to show us The New World had she not been a such a great bushwacker! And the guitar for me on this album and the playing of the same, is just beautiful. Gorgeous--really nothing like it in the world--no one else (that i know of) can do that, has done that. It really does seem to be its own genre. And I am so proud of her, amazed by her, for that. ah, I yawn, ah, I am tired. I have put myself to sleep almost. Hope not the same for everyone else. r p.s. How can you not like (the song itself i mean) Here's To You?!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 02:17:00 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: TTT questions I've been slowly digesting TTT but am not ready to say anything about it yet ... things I like ... things I don't. But I do have two questions: we assume that it's Mark Isham playing on Stay In Touch, but in my liner notes he is uncredited. Is it him, do we know for sure? Is it possible it's a sampled horn triggered on guitar or keyboard (although, if so, it would be the best sounding sampled muted trumpet I've ever heard)? If it is Isham, why no credit? Also, why is pedal steel repeatedly misspelled as "peddle" steel? Forgive me if these questions have been answered; I've fallen way behind in digests ... just can't keep up. - -Fred ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #387 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?