From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #385 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, October 1 1998 Volume 03 : Number 385 Join the concert meet and greet lists by sending a message to any of these addresses: -Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com -Nashville@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com Orlando@jmdl.com -Tampa@jmdl.com Sunrise@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com -NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com -Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com ------- JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- TTT in australia [Helen Gill ] bio (NJC) (very old thread); Joni Concerts (JC) [David Wright ] Re: bio (NJC) (very old thread); Joni Concerts (JC) ["Marsha" ] Atlanta in November [JJM ] Wall of Sound review [Michael Yarbrough ] TTT / Lucinda Williams [Don Sloan ] TTT in Minneapolis ["Sydtech" ] My JC contribution for the day: "Stay in Touch" [Mary Grace Valentinsson ] The Tiger is burning brightly..... [Bounced Message ] Meet and greet update [Les Irvin ] Ambiance? [Steve Dulson ] Re: Mitchell Massage [Phyliss Ward ] First Use [Steve Dulson ] No Apologies/Time [Steve Dulson ] atlanta info & TTT & PJ Harvey & Halloween [joe horne ] Joni-vs-Tina?? ["John M. Lind" ] Re: Reviews, CD single, concerts [LRFye@aol.com] Re: Joni License Plate [sherrie.good@chronicle.com] Re: Ambiance? [WirlyPearl@aol.com] Re: Ambiance? (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] FW: Buying Tickets through Ticketmaster and beating the Time Zones [Brett] joni on mtv in real audio [bryan thomas ] Another TTT review [John Lasater ] Today in Joni History - October 2 [Today in Joni History ] Slouching and Man From Mars (Woman from Venus?) [Brett Code ] Re: pedal steel [Thomas Ross ] Re: pedal steel ["John M. Lind" ] Re: NJC pedal steel, guitar stuff [Julie Blau ] Re: Joni in Chicago - Another negative review ["Philipf" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 17:31:53 +1000 (EST) From: Helen Gill Subject: TTT in australia just a question for any Melbourne listers: where can i get TTT? I've tried a few major stores and they don't have it yet for a couple of weeks! Anyone in Melboourne got it yet, and where? thanks in anticipation! helen. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 06:46:23 +0100 From: David Wright Subject: bio (NJC) (very old thread); Joni Concerts (JC) (Apologies if a half-completed version of this turns up on the list. I can't figure out where the hell that thing went....) name: David Benjamin Wright birthdate: May 12, 1978 location: London, England (until December); Littleton, CO and Oberlin, OH fav. books: The Golden Compass and The Subtle Knife by Philip Pullman fav. quote: "You can't get a ride to heaven on pretty little sounds!" --I think attr. by composer Charles Ives to his father "...'My sister doesn't," said Kirby. 'She think's it's crazy and abnormal and badly adjusted.' 'She is probably correct,' said Madame. 'Most dedicated people are all of those things and selfish besides'..." --Lois Duncan, from A Gift of Magic fav. authors: Flannery O'Connor, Patricia Highsmith fav. albums (non-Joni): To Bring You My Love, PJ Harvey; The Marble Index, Nico; Aqaba, June Tabor; Ghost in the Machine, The Police; The Northstar Grassman and the Ravens, Sandy Denny; Les Noces, the Dmitri Pokrovsky Ensemble; whitechocolatespaceegg, Liz Phair fav. house: Fallingwater, Frank Lloyd Wright fav. movies: Stormy Monday; Nashville; Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?; Jumpin' at the Boneyard; Landscape in the Mist; Grosse Pointe Blank fav. actors: Tim Roth, John Cusack, Joan Cusack, Anjelica Huston fav. TV show: Never Mind the Buzzcocks fav. color: purple re: Joni's concerts; I had a sinking sickening feeling that this would happen -- I leave the U.S. for four months, for the first time in my life -- and Joni immediately starts hopping all over the country, also for pretty much the first time in my life. But since I HAVE posted about having the time of my life here...maybe I should peddle (or is that "pedal"? HA!) my pleas for sympathy elsewhere?... :) But I DID happen to notice that the week of Joni's concerts, the last week in October, is also the week of...our fall vacation. Oh no. A voice in the back of my head is whispering.... but no. No. The opportunity to see Ireland, France, Italy, Amsterdam...and I'm going to fly back to the U.S.??!? Of course not. And I can't afford it anyway, can I? And she'll tour again. She can't be THAT content with her life, can she? And the smoking won't REALLY kill her before she can tour again. No, no. Must resist sinful temptation... What do you all think? Dammit, I bet she starts a UK tour in January! - --David NP: "Sardinia" by the Alabama Sacred Harp singers...for right now, on infinite repeat.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 04:12:17 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: album of the year/Lucinda Williams NJC Lucinda Williams will be a guest on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno tomorrow (Thursday) night. He had Liz Phair tonight. - -Julius sherrie writes: << I am certain, without a doubt, Lucinda Williams will win the Grammy for 'Album of the Year' for her album, 'Car Wheels on a Gravel Road.' >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:06:24 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: TTT - Lead Balloon fade out Well, I will always remember Maggie rocking to this song in the Boston airport parking lot while we were waiting for Michael Paz to arrive! I really like it, despite some of the criticism that's been heaped upon it here. I certainly wouldn't call it the weakest song on the album! Anyway, I like the way Lead Balloon fades out like the last of the air going out of a balloon! Very clever! Marian Vienna NP: TTT ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 11:12:56 +0100 From: paul.graham@sunderland.ac.uk (GRAHAM Paul) Subject: TTT -the cats pyjamas Yes I know, anybody who said I'd be back, you're right, (after I slouched off home to lick the cats butt, never to return) I had almost forgotten about TTT, I had never seen it advertised, and then yesterday lunchtime, I was stopped in my tracks by one of these homemade advertising signs that people put at the corner of the street to promote their well hidden shop, 'TTT now available', and a A2 photocopy of the front cover, well I just had to! Actually, I had been touring several shops looking for the double CD Allman Bros live at Fillmore, and most record shops don't even stock them, wot's going on? But this little specialist shop had Joni, Allmans, and a John Renbourn tab book I have been wanting for ages. So now I'm a happy pixie. Curious things happen in this type of shop, the guy in front of me, important looking, business suit, says " I don't know if you can help, I'm a morris dancer...." shop guy, " so you want some morris dancing music?" suit, "no, I want some of that music played on one of those metal guitars like that Texas film..." cue a brief lecture by shop owner on slide guitar exponents I imagined a similar scene in Virgin or HMV where somebody asks for music that goes 'unk cher unk cher unk cher' wiggle don't stop, and is similarly put down by a slamming doors music afficionado ( God how do you spell it!) Does anybody think the guy reading the magazine by the key and lightbulb looks like an old poop? (film reference) So what have I missed? Paul Sorry, I'm as nutty as ever ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 07:23:53 EDT From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: Vincent Hi, I am sitting here in the early morning watching the sun rise and 2 black crows chasing each other through the trees. Everything is still very green for the most part with just the slightest hint that in about two weeks the trees will have lost most of their green and will be turning. I found this site today http://www.openface.ca/~vangogh/index.html. It seems to be a wonderful home page dedicated by someone like Wally to our Vincent. I would guess that for most of us if Joni is our voice, then Vincent is our eyes. I just had to know at what time of year he died. I was willing to bet it was the fall, but was so happy to find out it was July. July with his sunflowers on his coffin. I saw both shows at the Met in the 80s. Vincent at Arles and San-Remy. They were beautiful but they did not touch me the way they would now. Now that I am the same age as Vincent when he painted best and now that I have felt more of the sting of life along with its sweetness. Now, they might be too painful to view in public. His intense love for life and things beautiful. Finding the beautiful in the common. We sense how deep he must have loved and how turbulent his indigos. The two existing side by side. And I think at the same time reminding many of us of our own lives. In a moment, I am going out to the garden to pick a bouguet of sunflowers and then get to my writing. - -Chili ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:07:43 EDT From: JAN201@aol.com Subject: Joni on CBS Hi guys- This might be old news, but... My sister tells me that Joni will be on CBS's morning show tomorrow morning, I think it's called Good Morning America? Anyway, I'll let Phil take the boy to school! A question- Phil swears he's heard someone cover Man From Mars a year or two ago, is he out of his mind? Could be a bad case of deja vu, but then again... See y'all at Mad. Sq.- Jan in Hoboken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 08:08:57 -0400 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Re:In praise of older women(implied JC) At 02:14 PM 9/30/98 PDT, Don Rowe wrote: >John writes -- >>Music became almost, if not *as*, visually oriented as film roundabout >1982/83 when the fledgling Mtv took over the role of radio as "hit >maker" in the mass market... >Now before I say this, I want everyone to know that I've got my tongue >planted firmly in cheek ... here goes -- > >John, what version of MTV are you watching? Mine just repeats an >endless stream of 18-20 somethings, who have been given money to play >with, live with each other, snipe and eat sushi for six weeks while >cameras roll. Does yours still air actual music videos? ;-) > >Don Rowe > >PS -- That's not entirely accurate. There are also the occasional >animated clay figures of celebrities fighting ... > Oh, I completely agree that eMptyvee has become far more concerned with promoting itself as a pop icon than with showing music videos, but that's not how it started out. I could diatribe for pages about how the M took what was a pretty good idea(Radio on tv) monopolized it, subdivided it(VH1 and now M2) and then turned into just another tv network with the occasional music slant, but that wasn't my point. My point was how the inception of Mtv and it's initial popularity took over top 40(or top 20, or top 10) radio's role as the promoter of what the industry wanted to be a hit song. Ever since then music on tv went from being a late night sort of underground occurance(The Midnight Special, Blue Jean Network, Don Kirschner's R.C., SNL, Friday's) to BIG business with all the trappings, coruption, and "image is everything" attitude that goes with BIG business. These trappings had been leaking into the popular music industry for years but it didn't really take hold until music performance became more common on your tv screen than on a stage as much as 100 yards from many audiance members. John~ NP "Taming The Tiger"(how appropriate) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:13:38 EDT From: JAN201@aol.com Subject: GMA Ooops, I just read my digest. CBS is indeed old news-SORRY! Jan in Hoboken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:44:46 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Interview in Toronto Globe & Mail I assume this is running in the Boston Globe, too. TIGER, TIGER One of her best albums in years is out this week, but Joni Mitchell's still at odds with the music industry. Thursday, October 1, 1998 STEVE MORSE The Boston Globe Joni Mitchell's new album, Taming the Tiger,has a frank confession in the title track. "I'm a runaway from the music biz," she sings, and then goes on to criticize "formula music" on the radio, labeling it "junk food for juveniles." Don't expect to hear the song soon on any Top 40 stations. "I've had to run away in order to keep the poet alive," said Mitchell in an interview from Los Angeles. The new album, released in Canada and the United States this week, is her first since 1994's Turbulent Indigo, which won two Grammy awards. The reclusive Mitchell, whose painterly folk-jazz and hippie background have influenced contemporary acts from Jewel to Fiona Apple, swung back into view recently with a West Coast tour with Bob Dylan and Van Morrison; and with a well-received appearance at the "Day in the Garden" concert at the original Woodstock site in New York. Later this month, she and Dylan will roll into Ontario for a pair of concerts together, in Toronto on Oct. 29 and Ottawa on Oct. 30. Mitchell also has a pay-per-view TV concert, called Taming the Tiger: An Evening with Joni Mitchell, coming Nov. 6 on U.S. pay-TV. Mitchell released a book of poetry last year, The Complete Poems and Lyrics, which is to be reissued in paperback next month with the addition of lyrics from Taming the Tiger. She's also contracted for two more books: one a compilation of her paintings, the other an autobiography. "I probably have five novels in me -- if I was a novelist -- just based on personal experience," said the fifty-four-year-old native of Canada. She has been buoyed by a recent reunion with her daughter Kilauren (whom she had given up for adoption 33 years ago while living in Toronto), though this personal joy has been tempered by Mitchell's continued frustration with the music business, which caused her to consider retirement in recent years. "I've got a painter's eye for innovation in a business that thrives on second- and third-generation copycats," Mitchell said. "I've got the wrong mentality for the game. I don't play the game well. I'm not a politician, which more and more has become a required quality in my business. "Also, I dislike being pigeonholed. I make unorthodox music, so that creates marketing difficulties for me. And there are prejudices levied at me because of my interest in jazz." Taming the Tiger probably won't solve those marketing difficulties, but it's one of her best, most accessible albums since her peak in the seventies with the influential discs Blue and Court and Spark, which yielded the hits Help Me and Free Man in Paris. She takes some political shots in the song No Apologies ("Lawyers and loan sharks are laying America to waste"). She applies her poetic eye to the meditative Harlem in Havana, about a carnival midway populated with eccentric characters. She turns soothing in Stay in Touch ("Let light hearts remake us . . . let the worries hush"), but turns feisty in the uptempo Lead Balloon. It's about nervously spilling a drink on a boyfriend she's trying to impress, noting in detail "the tequila trickling down his business suit." Other standouts are the wisdom-filled Face Lift ("Happiness is the best face lift," she sings) and the upbeat My Best to You, a blessing to her audience. "My true fans are open to me," said Mitchell. "And I got into this business to be an artist, not a pawn of business. So I have to fight for the right to inspiration." While it would seem natural that Mitchell would do more touring to back the new record (she hasn't toured the East in 15 years), she's feeling inspired to make an album of forties and fifties standards instead. "What I'd really like to do is not tour this album, but go immediately into the studio while I'm fired up and do an album with a big orchestra. That would be a thrill of a lifetime," she said. "My roots as a singer lie in standards, really. I know the words to many of them -- and I know all the melodies." Toward this end, she just sang on two George Gershwin songs for Herbie Hancock's new album, Gershwin's World. She joined Hancock, Stevie Wonder and saxophonist Wayne Shorter (who also plays beautifully on her album) for "loose, late-night sessions. We did Summertime and The Man I Love. I loved it." Mitchell's jazz affinities have taken her a long way from her hippie folk-singing days. She almost laughs at that era now. "I came into folk music as an arts student to make some pin money, because it was so easy," she said. "So I entered the arena as a folk musician and all these years later, I still get called a folk musician, but that's not where my roots are. In less than six months, I was a professional folk singer. That's how easy it is to cop those chops." Mitchell later dove head first into jazz, during the making of Hejira (1976) and Mingus (1979), in which she set lyrics to Charlie Mingus's melodies. But the reception Mingus received also helped her turn sour on the music biz. "At the time I did my Mingus project, I lost my airplay. And for 25 years, I've been dismissed as too jazzy," she said. "It's kind of like being blacklisted for a long time. "The white press has had a problem with my jazz influences -- and it's always been levied against me. Generally, they're hostile and frightened. I don't know why. Whatever it is, I can't expect to be understood or reviewed sensibly in the bulk of the pop camp. . . . I'm tired of being flunked by Rolling Stone [magazine]. I hear they're going to flunk me again on this new album. I can take it, but it's just stupid at this point." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:34:44 -0400 From: "Marsha" Subject: Re: bio (NJC) (very old thread); Joni Concerts (JC) > But I DID happen to notice that the week of Joni's concerts, the last week >in October, is also the week of...our fall vacation. Oh no. A voice in the >back of my head is whispering.... but no. No. The opportunity to see >Ireland, France, Italy, Amsterdam...and I'm going to fly back to the >U.S.??!? Of course not. Maybe you'll go to Amsterdam or maybe you'll go to Rome and you'll rent you a grand piano and put some flowers 'round your room... Enjoying your posts, David, and hope you will find ways to keep us informed of your adventures. We are thinking of you having such a good time. Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 8:44:49 EDT From: kbarnicle@ensr.com Subject: Joni in Massaschusetts?? Has anyone heard any more info on Joni playing in Amherst, Massachusetts? I know that was a possibility but it seems from her touring schedule that it is unlikely they would fill in one of the open dates with a Mass. concert. Oh ohh. I feel one big boo hoo coming on. Katie from the Cape formerly from Amherst ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 06:25:30 PDT From: "Jos B" Subject: Joni Bootlegs? Saw these on a popular bootleg net site...... Wonder what they are like? CIB 12 JONI MITCHELL - MOSTLY MELANCHOLIA - WEST COAST NORTH AMERICAN TOUR, 14-23 MAY 1998, $24 CIB 13 VAN MORRISON/JONI MITCHELL/BOB DYLAN - NIGHTS OFTHE LIVING ICONS - ALL UNIQUE TRACKS, WEST COAST NORTH AMERICAN TOUR, 14-23 MAY 1998, $24 Jos ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 09:42:02 -0400 From: JJM Subject: Atlanta in November Hi all...I couldn't believe it when I saw it! Joni's actually going to be here in Atlanta in November!! Yes, I know it says TBA, but I feel like it's finally here. What I'd like to know is whether there is anyone out here who currently lives in ATLANTA?????????? PLEASE STEP FORWARD. I really want to go but none of my friends would be interested and I'd love to go with another Joniphile. If there's anyone out there, please let me know. thanks, juliette. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:47:17 -0400 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: Wall of Sound review You'll really like it! She gets an 85 from them. Check out: http://www.wallofsound.com/ - --Michael, who just discovered PJ Harvey's performing in DC the same night as the pay-per-view showing. AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 07:21:29 -0700 From: Don Sloan Subject: TTT / Lucinda Williams Have been listening to TTT for a few days and must say I am amazed how this woman continues to amaze me! I love the layers of sound and, though not as moving lyrically for me on a personal level as earlier works I could mention, it is Joni-well-written and the words and music fit so well together. If TTT continues to grow on me as the other post-C&S works have, this one could be up there as one of my favorites in no time! I was dozing on the couch at the end of Jay Leno last night and am *almost* certain he said Lucinda Williams will be on tonight (Thursday, Oct 01). Don ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 10:09:54 -0500 From: "Sydtech" Subject: TTT in Minneapolis Greetings from a new list-member... I picked up Taming The Tiger on Tuesday (after anxiously awaiting its arrival). I live in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area, and I grabbed a copy at the Best Buy at 494 and Lyndale. I was pleased to note that they appeared to be sold out of TTT from the Joni Mitchell section and the end caps - I lucked out and got a copy from the big 'current hits' section along the outside of the CD section. Sorry if this is a FAQ, but anyone have sales figures on the disc so far? I'm interested in seeing how it's selling. My review: sublime...beautiful! My favorite tracks are, well...the whole disc! I can't wait for the show in Minneapolis... Scott (gratuitous alliterator) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 08:14:41 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: My JC contribution for the day: "Stay in Touch" I love TTT - bittersweet to me in ways I could never adequately explain. "Stay in Touch" is just wonderful and I can't help but zero in on a couple of parts in that song: "Let fate and duty shape us, let light hearts remake us, let the worries hush." An interesting task to take duty, which on the surface seems rigid and suffocating to whims, fancies and spontaneous joy and marry that with fate, which can seem so fly-by-night. Oil and water, but with maturity and an open heart, I think that they can make perfect partners. The former to keep the latter from becoming routine, blind actions that are a death sentence to one's spirit and the latter to keep fate from just being a reckless jaunt through life. and then: "During times like these, the wise are influential, they can bear the imperfection, they can keep the harmony." Soothing words during my own "times like these," and a philosophy that I believe is a key to enduring happiness. How to find peace and harmony within the fact that, as humans, we are imperfect. (well, not imperfect, per se, but ever changing) It's essential, but tricky. (at least I think someone said that!). MG - back to the not-at-all-bittersweet world of accounting np: Crazy Cries, (in my head) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 09:23:37 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: The Tiger is burning brightly..... From: PATRICIA HILLIS Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:40:35 -0400 Yes, this album burns brightly. There are songs in this collection that we will be playing 20 years from now and still will be marvelling at. Without going into a review of each song, I want to say that I love this album - her music becomes part of your soul, it feeds and nourishes your senses (no junkfood for us!). While riding the train to work, listening to TTT on the discman, I've been quietly advertising the album by opening up the cover to display the paintings and then showing the front cover for them to see who it is (it's amazing how many people pay attention to what you do if they have nothing to do) - hey, maybe I've just invented a new way of advertising ("live advertising"). Pat np: tiger bones .......heaven! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 09:35:55 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Meet and greet update Joniphiles - Oops! I forgot to set up one of the mailing lists for Joni's tour: Kanata@jmdl.com It's ready to go now. As a reminder, all these meet and greet mailing lists are available. Simply send a message to the appropriate ones and I will add you to the list Chicago@jmdl.com NewYork@jmdl.com Detroit@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com Kanata@jmdl.com Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Syracuse@jmdl.com Rochester@jmdl.com CollegePark@jmdl.com Nashville@jmdl.com Atlanta@jmdl.com Orlando@jmdl.com Tampa@jmdl.com Sunrise@jmdl.com Thanks, Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:31:15 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Ambiance? >11/14 - National Car Rental Center - Sunrise, Florida Gosh, this must be a romantic little place! :) "Scuse me, Ms Mitchell, your Saturn is ready now..." ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 08:19:28 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: Mitchell Massage Leslie - Sounds wonderful! And thanks for the idea. Once I actually brought my therapist Blue to listen to while she worked on me. She liked it so much I left if for her as part or my barter system (I trade my nutritional products for her services). I think I'll call for an appointment... np: Good Morning America - They just announced Joni's performance tomorrow! Leslie Mixon wrote: > Hot packs on my back, kneading all those stressed out muscles, and > strains of Joni wafting through the speakers. - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:19:26 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: First Use Philip wrote: >Thinking aloud here, I wonder did the withdrawal of the original >Joni version from the Grace Of My Heart lp have anything to >do with wanting to block any cover versions under the "first use" >rule. Any music publishing experts here ? Not an expert, but by allowing the release of a cover version on the GOMH soundtrack, the first use rule would not apply to any future versions, so after the soundtrack came out, anyoune could record MFM. Best, ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:35:41 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: No Apologies/Time I've got to disagree with Dulcimer Doug here: >no apologies- what a great surprise. This is the song that sex kills & dog eat >dog aspired too. To me, No Apologies is Sex Kills Lite - she's dealing with the same themes, but somehow bungles tying choruses and verses together, and recycles images from the past ("trampled/conquered moon"). For me, it's the weakest song on TTT. Has a great first verse, then wanders off.. >but gene has a theory- well- two in fact.... >2nd theory- Joni on the cover of time magazine... The Swami thinks this is A Very Good Theory. Mid November, I think... ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:01:46 -0700 (PDT) From: joe horne Subject: atlanta info & TTT & PJ Harvey & Halloween Yea! I hear Joni is coming to Atlanta in November! Where is she playing? Can someone send a link or some info!? Also wanted to say the new recording (TTT) is great. I think the recording of "FaceLift" is so sweet and gentle. Has anyone listened to the new PJ Harvey CD? I heard one song and liked it lots (don't remember the name). Is anyone going as Joni for Halloween this year? Happy listening! joejoejoejoejoejoejoejoejoe _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:02:18 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Joni in Chicago - Another negative review Hello all! Here is another review of the Chicago show that the writer gave me permission to post here, as long as I deleted her personal info. I send it along because it includes, for the first time I think, some of the after-show activities. To: FOLKDJ-L >From: (anon 2) Subject: Joni in Chicago...and I was there too *Note: I wrote this yesterday in a cold drug induced fog. I waited to reread it to make sure it was moderately coherent. My comments are mostly collaborative and not terribly original, tho several people have asked me for my impressions, knowing I was probably at the concert.* Sept. 24 Ok, I'll come out of lurking and my lethargy. First, in the spirit of full disclosure, I am a board member of The Old Town School of Folk Music. And, I'm still tired from all the weekend festivities, where I apparently also caught a cold that hit me about Wednesday. 1. I was there, both theres. I was at UCLA in 1993 and last Friday at the OTS. My memory of UCLA was basically the same as Eleni's. I would describe her mood not as lousy but nervous, self-conscious and not particularly happy to be there (UCLA). I did stay for her whole performance and I was sitting right next to the stage in a VIP area, where you could see pretty much everything that was going on. I thought her performance was embarrassing, with her not completing one song without stopping to retune, or because she had forgotten the words or the chords. At the time I gave her a pass because I undertsood she hadn't been performing much at that time. She was not the only one that weekend who was alittle rusty. 2. I had the exact same experience Friday night as Rich and I didn't know it until he posted it here. Her guitar playing was monotonous and eventually boring. Maybe it was the sound engineer's fault, but I found it difficult to follow the words of every song thru to the end. I really tried too, because I know she's more of a poet than a musican. Her attitude was aloof, I felt she treated the show as just another dreaded gig and didn't get that this was a big celebration. An evening of " a funny little set of societal ills", her words, is not my idea of a celebration. Would it have been so bad to do a couple old favorites given the event had to do with carrying on the tradition as well as looking towards the future? Another good discussion might be: should an artist or how much should an artist feel obligated to tailor their performance for the occasion if it is a special one? << Who would expect ANYONE to have the voice they had thirty years ago? Joni's voice has matured and deepened. It doesn't have the range it once did. So?>> We had about a dozen other long time artists over the weekend who's voices were in great shape, from Peter Yarrow, to Bonnie Koloc and Jim Post. I think there's a little bit of fan worship here to blame age instead of a lifetime of smoking for the deterioration of her voice. I probably didn't mind her lower voice as much as Rich, but I do miss the glorious range she used to have. As far as the rumor about her not doing an encore because someone in front yawned. Well, it's absolutely true. Both the excutive director and the concert producer had to talk/calm her down and get her to come to a small after-concert reception, where she finally relaxed, and was very nice and accomodating with autographs, etc. They decided to start a tradition of having the artists autograph the wall of the dressing room. She wrote "get some sleep Chicago, next time an encore!". It's there for all to see. 3. A comment on the reviews in the newspaper. The Sun Times also had a good review, although very short, they choose to review the building more. Greg Kot of the Tribune is one of the best music critics in Chicago... albeit for rock. He rarely reviews folk unless it's a big name that has cross-over status, i.e. Loudon Wainwright, the McGarrigles, etc. I had a discussion with him in the past year where he acknowledged his lack of familiarity with the current folk music scene or the folk music community. Just some perspective. I don't think Rich nor I are indicting her whole career or saying people shouldn't go see her. Of course they should, and form their own opinions. Hey, she'll be back in 4 weeks with Bob Dylan at the United Center and Craig, I hear the top ticket is only $50. But, this was unfortunately our experience, the two women next to me cheered loudly after every number. Most people who attended the concert were very happy to have gotten to see her even if they felt the music wasn't for them. The School is not sorry for inviting her and the evening was a great success overall. Anyway, Sammy Sosa is the big talk in this town. (anon 2) Evanston/Chicago ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:19:19 EDT From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: Buying Tickets through Ticketmaster and beating the Time Zones Hi, If you want to beat the time zones and buy tickets through Ticketmaster, you can always call for your tickets. I just got off the phone with them and it seems most locations don't open until 10 or 11 EST. Still you can beat the clock by calling their 800 no (best to find the number for your particular location) and get in line. Since the tickets don't go on sale until 9 EST, you could conceivably call earlier and "get in line" before 9:00. At least this is what I was told by the representative, who I spoke with just now. I wouldn't mind someone else on the list calling to confirm. BTW it took me 20 minutes to reach a live rep. Already knowing I probably am not going to get anywhere as close as we were at Woodstock, but I can Try! - -Chili ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 12:41:08 -0400 From: Roger Walker Subject: No Apologies: Okinawa '95 Background on the issue that Joni refers to when she speaks of the incident in Japan can be found at: http://www-cgi.cnn.com/WORLD/9509/japan_rape/09-29/index.html - -- rog ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 12:39:57 -0400 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Joni-vs-Tina?? Kakki wrote: >Well, so does Joni !!!! And "with a spit shine on (her) dancing shoes", I might add! What about the "How Do You Stop" video dance with Seal, which was gorgeous visually? Joni's a big-time dancer - wait till you see the Warner Bros. taping on video. And she is very fit and full of energy - I hope to look half that good when I'm her age. And many others have debated the health, beauty and energy of the se two very talented women. OK, first thing - calm down! - I have, it seems, yet again gone and started a debate that was certainly not my intention. Joni and Tina are the same age and both look to be in great health for someone ten years younger. I do, however, think that while our Joan does love to dance there's a big diference(in marketing value at least) in a woman wearing loose slacks or flowing skirt doing the "Boy I just *love* this song" happy dance and a woman in a mini-skirt doing choreographed dance moves designed to be interpretive of "sexy" music. Both are good but neither is better, just different. John~ NP "Stay In Touch" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:05:25 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Reviews, CD single, concerts Wally B. wrote: and since America Online will be featuring the JMHP site for the next two weeks BRAVO WALLY!!! Joni is listed FIRST in the list of featured artists! Clicking on her name gives you the TTT cover, links to the JMHP and JMDLers reviews, concert info, and more! And prominently displayed for all to read: "When the dust settles, Joni Mitchell may stand as the most important and influential female recording artist of the late 20th century." What a wonderful achievement, Wally! Thanks! Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:07:51 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: Re: Joni License Plate great idea Marsha. i think vanity plates are tacky, but that is half the fun. i went for a local approach, to celebrate our own Shenandoah Valley hero. mine read: P CLINE can u dig it Sherrie (PATSY C was already snapped up by some lucky fool) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:39:17 EDT From: WirlyPearl@aol.com Subject: Re: Ambiance? Steve wrote: << >11/14 - National Car Rental Center - Sunrise, Florida Gosh, this must be a romantic little place! :) "Scuse me, Ms Mitchell, your Saturn is ready now..." Believe me Steve, we here in South Florida also think it's about the stupidest name for the Florida Panthers brand new hockey arena. There have been lot's of comments about people thinking it's a place to pick up or drop off a car rental. National bought it and that's what they want to call it. Anyway, the grand opening is this weekend and the opening performer is Celine Dion, the following night I think is Elton John. Guess where I WON'T be this weekend! At least it's attracting big acts and it's bringing JONI here to ME! Pearl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:48:49 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Ambiance? (NJC) Steve wrote: > >11/14 - National Car Rental Center - Sunrise, Florida > > Gosh, this must be a romantic little place! :) > "Scuse me, Ms Mitchell, your Saturn is ready now... After Joni picks up her Saturn, perhaps she can zoom up to Ohio to get some extra tires at the Akron Rubber Bowl ... an embarrassing place to see your first concert (Three Dog Night and James Gang in 1973), and always the source of many jokes. Lori born near Akron but living in San Antonio, where we have the Alamodome ... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:49:46 -0600 From: Brett Code Subject: FW: Buying Tickets through Ticketmaster and beating the Time Zones I have the same idea, but I'm going to call Ticketmaster in Winnipeg: (204) 780-3333. While it is not an 800 number, so I will have to pay for long distance, it is one time zone closer, so it will be open at 10 ET. There is no Joni show in Winnipeg, so the lines should not be crammed full like they will be in Toronto and Ottawa. I called there to test it, today, and got through on the first ring. Winnipeg Ticketmaster is only selling tickets for Toronto and Ottawa, however, so, for the U.S. shows, you have to find a similar situation in another town. Brett np: Lead Balloon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 14:35:53 -0400 From: bryan thomas Subject: joni on mtv in real audio someone else has probably posted this info already, but what the hey... The Untamed Joni Mitchell: A RealVideo Report http://mtv.com/news/headlines/981001/story5.html peace, b. - ------------------------------------- http://www.bryanthomas.com music@bryanthomas.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:41:25 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: John Lasater Subject: Another TTT review This one is from wallofsound.com. They gave it an 85 (out of 100) "Joni Mitchell Taming the Tiger Label: Reprise Genre: Rock/Pop File Under: Tell it like it is More than 30 years into her remarkable career, it seems like Joni Mitchell couldn't be more removed from the business side of the music biz. An intuitive artist who long ago stepped out of the mainstream by modeling her increasingly complex compositions on jazz rather than submit to the conformist strictures of pop music, Mitchell perversely seems to have thrived creatively even as her commercial fortunes continue to wither. Not that she hasn't been in the spotlight in recent years. Mitchell took home two Grammy awards for 1994's Turbulent Indigo, including Album of the Year. She's received numerous other honors, including Sweden's Polar Music Prize, sort of a musical version of the Nobel Prize. And last year she was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. So what's it going to take for the general public to rediscover—or in the case of the Lilith Fair generation who weren't even born when Mitchell hit the Top 40 with "Help Me" and "Free Man in Paris"—to discover her in the first place? Chances are, Mitchell doesn't care at this point. Why else would she have eschewed the full-on box-set treatment embraced by her peers for the slim set of Hits and, God help us, Misses that came out in 1996? That doesn't mean she doesn't care about her art, of course. In fact, it seems the realization that the industry and its attendant barometers of Buzz Bins and Hot 100s have passed her by has freed her to follow her muse without reason or need to concern herself with how her music is consumed. All of which makes Taming the Tiger a marvelous, mature work that says what Mitchell means without fear of reprisal. On the title track, for example, she casts herself as "a runaway from the record biz/ From the hoods in the hood/ And the whiny white kids/ Boring!" Even her venerated status isn't worth much. "Accolades and honors/ One false move/ And you're a goner/ Boring!" she charges, going on to criticize the current scene as "Formula music/ Girlie guile/ Genuine junk food/ For juveniles." That's pretty dead-on, but if you don't happen to agree, what are you gonna do—keep her music off the airwaves? Too late for that, my friend. Mitchell, meanwhile seems to be feeling (to quote an earlier music-biz ode) unfettered and alive. Several songs—"Love Puts on a New Face," "Face Lift," and especially the randy "The Crazy Cries of Love"—reflect on happy relationships, a nice twist for Mitchell's often dark-hued works. "Harlem in Havana," meanwhile, is a jazzy slice of nostalgia about teenagers' discovery of the wider world. There are pensive touches, too. "No Apologies" is about the hardening of our hearts. Spurred on by everything from the case of a Japanese girl raped by American soldiers to governments irradiating the ocean, Mitchell wonders, "What happened to this place?/ Lawyers and loan sharks/ Are laying America to waste." "Man From Mars" reflects a crisis of a more personal nature—that of a relationship that's been sundered but refuses to be forgotten. "Lead Balloon" offers a pitched battle of the sexes ("An angry man is just an angry man/ But an angry woman…/ Bitch!") that finds her hurling her drink at her antagonist—"Must be the Irish blood/ Fight before you think," she muses. Surrounding all of this is a gorgeous blend of guitars and keyboards, mostly played by Mitchell herself. Wayne Shorter contributes some lovely, fluttering soprano sax on a few of the tunes and Mitchell's ex-husband Larry Klein adds searching, sonorous bass lines. There are also appearances by steel guitar wizard Greg Leisz and astounding (though understated here) drummer Brian Blade. As with all of her work throughout her career, but especially the latter half of it, Taming the Tiger isn't for the faint of heart, or the short of attention span. But as anyone with a half-decent record collection knows, the albums that demand a bit more from the listener are the ones that resonate the longest." -Daniel Durchholz NP: Sheryl Crow, _The Globe Sessions_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 13:02:02 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - October 2 1991: Today Joni attended Sting's birthday party held at A & M Studios in Los Angeles. Full story and pictures: http://www.jonimitchell.com/StingBirthday91.html - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:43:05 -0600 From: Brett Code Subject: Slouching and Man From Mars (Woman from Venus?) Even though I've played TTT about 20 times, I have yet to really listen, lyrics in hand. Just now, though, I read the lyrics to Man From Mars. I couldn't help but see the similarity between the second verse of Man and part of the first verse of Slouching. Slouching . . . Things fall apart The center cannot hold Man I fall apart Everytime I think of you Swallowed by the dark There is no center to my life now It's interesting, because I have been applying Slouching to my own personal situation and singing about things falling apart with reference to myself. Selfish and self-centred, I know, but it's just the space I'm occupying these days. What I wonder, with some consternation, is whether I should be changing genders in the title - could it be? - Woman from Venus? Does anyone think that Man from Mars refers to John Gray's similarly titled bestseller? Brett np: Crazy Cries of Love ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:30:31 -0500 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Joni Interview on Sunday Night I emailed Jody Denberg who is the Program Director for KGSR 107.1 here in Austin, Texas. They have really been behind the album. They played it in its entirety on Monday night. They have continued to play "Crazy Cries of Love" and today mentioned and interview done by one of their DJ's (Jody Denberg) that is going to be played Sunday night. I sent a note to her to ask about the interview and this is how she responded. =========================================================================== Craig - I personally interviewed Joni 9/9/98 in Los Angeles for an interview CD that will be released by Reprise to radio in a month or 6 weeks. It will air during the "Sunday Night News" between 8 & 10. With the music it's about 65 minutes. It is comprehensive. Tune in and hear! See ya... Jody Denberg =========================================================================== On our end I have something to do on Sunday night but have asked a Neil Orts to tape it and I will listen to it later. I thought it might be nice to post this to the JMDL and encourage people to email her and thanking her for her support. email address: jdenberg@kgsr.com KGSR Business Office: 512-832-4000 KGSR Request Line: 512-390-5477 Sales Fax: 512-832-1579 Programming: 512-832-1479 Promotions Fax: 512-908-4902 Address: KGSR 8309 N. IH 35 Austin, TX 78753 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 16:47:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Ross Subject: Re: pedal steel add to these worthy categories those who play jazz on the pedal steel -- is it Buddy Emmons? then a little further afield: the Hawaiian slackkey guitar, the South Indian gottuvadyam (wooden dowel - - Ravi Kiran is a fine proponent), North Indian vichitra vina (glass egg!), and Indians such as V R Bhatt who play classical music with the guitar in their laps. Tom Ross The Cormack & Ross Band's new CD 'global jazz songs' album *HORSE of STONE*, made possible by David Crosby, has excerpts and info at http://www.barncard.com/cormack-ross.html Mizazi Recordings Box 542 Middletown, CT 06457 "Sublime. . . fascinating vocal interplay, virtuoso instrumental work and deeply creative songwriting that blends classical Asian styles with contemporary and traditional Western motifs. . . had this actually been released and recognized when it was recorded, today's music might have a wholly different sound." J. Eric Smith, METROLAND ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 16:55:04 -0400 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Re: pedal steel At 04:47 PM 10/1/98 -0400, you wrote: >add to these worthy categories those who play jazz on the pedal steel -- >is it Buddy Emmons? > >then a little further afield: the Hawaiian slackkey guitar, the South >Indian gottuvadyam (wooden dowel - - Ravi Kiran is a fine proponent), >North Indian vichitra vina (glass egg!), and Indians such as V R Bhatt who >play classical music with the guitar in their laps. Thanks Tom. The Indian styles and artists I was unfamiliar with but I was pretty slack ;-D in forgeting the Hawian "Slack-Key" style. Buddy Emmons was(is?) a bluegrass player as far as I know. Of course, that doesn't mean he couldn't have played on some jazz records. After all I have a John Hartford(with the Dillards) album with two reggae songs on it. John~ NP "Tiger Bones" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 14:14:10 -0700 From: Julie Blau Subject: Re: NJC pedal steel, guitar stuff On this topic, I recently had the great pleasure of seeing Bob Brozman, steel guitarist extraordinaire, and Ledward Kaapana, slack-key master, perform at the Kuumbwa Jazz Center in Santa Cruz. If you are into guitar and/or world music, and you don't know these guys, you're missing out. Unbelievable, indeed. Julie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:25:39 +0100 From: "Philipf" Subject: Re: Joni in Chicago - Another negative review - -----Original Message----- >having the artists autograph the wall of the dressing room. She wrote "get >some sleep Chicago, next time an encore!". It's there for all to see. Joni, I'm proud of you. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:25:28 +0100 From: "Philipf" Subject: Re: First Use - -----Original Message----- Steve wrote >Not an expert, but by allowing the release of a cover version on the >GOMH soundtrack, the first use rule would not apply to any future >versions, so after the soundtrack came out, anyoune could record >MFM. Thanks for the clarification, didn't realise the soundtrack went out with a cover version on. I wonder has Celine Dion heard Man From Mars yet, I hope not. Come on Reprise put it out with a good video and watch it go top ten. Philip not NP : Lead Balloon ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #385 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?