From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #380 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, September 29 1998 Volume 03 : Number 380 JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- ethiopian wall [Michael Heath ] Re: TTT (silence) [Christophe Pical ] It is the Gorgeous-ess ["Kakki" ] Re: bios/password thing (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Timothy P. F. Ireland ["Philipf" ] Re: (NJC)jazzmen can't rock ["Philipf" ] Joni birthday gift ideas VOTE NOW [IVPAUL42@aol.com] TTT released! [Howard Wright ] NJC - Lauryn Hill/Sarah McLachlan/Sheryl Crow [Jason Maloney ] For your listening pleasure try........ ["Jos B" ] joni in usa today! [Bill Dollinger ] My Guacamole Recipe ["Don Rowe" ] Re: bios/password thing (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] Re: bios/password thing (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] Re: TTT ["Phil Klein" ] (NJC)Re: pay for what? [heather ] Now Playing: Taming the Tiger!!!!!! ["Neil E. Orts" ] Re:Purple Rain /Joni chords ["Phil Klein" ] Re: TTT [Bill Dollinger ] Re: Amelia, vapor trails, fortune telling [Howard Motyl ] "Harry's House" is at WPKN 89.5 FM Bridgeport CT Listener supported Radioy [Chilihead2@aol.] Re: For your listening pleasure try........ [Bounced Message ] Re: It is the Gorgeous-ess [Bounced Message ] TTT, HOSL and Norwegian connection [Bounced Message ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:29:50 -0700 From: Michael Heath Subject: ethiopian wall Hi, I think its a reference to the missing Hebrew Ark of the Covenant supposedly being having been transported to Ethiopia for safekeeping many many years ago. There is a small Jewish enclave of Black Africans priests who claim to be guarding it today. The reference is to the origins of the judaic/christian culture that created patriarchal oppression of women. Thetas my take anyway.:) Take care. cul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:52:44 +0200 From: Christophe Pical Subject: Re: TTT (silence) In reply to the following: ================= Beginning Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 03:11:33 -0700 From: jussi Subject: Re: TTT (silence) > > Many CD's have *minutes* of silence before a hidden track, which is > > often some kind of throwaway material, the artist playing around in the > > studio, etc > > Since I'm in the US and haven't seen my 38,000 copies of TTT (37,856 of which > I'll be returning in 29 days ;-) yet, the only thing I have to go by is the > copy of the jewel case insert from the preview cd that appeared in my mailbox > some time ago. It lists Tiger Bones as track #11. Seeing as it's listed > there, how could it be called a "hidden track"? To start from the original message: Somehow I got the impression that he felt cheated that the record is "short". But considering that the track list of TTT has been known for months and half of the songs have been circulating on tapes, it doesn't take much adding up to figure out that it will be a 40-minute album. Also, Joni is no Janet who is *expected* to deliver 75-minute albums (now that she's done many of them in a row). To me it's odd that someone would complain about the record's length. Or that typos in the booklet would make him "disappointed"(?) Maybe something is lost in the translation here and I missed the point he made. Still, I think it's funny that someone has 10 or 11 brand new Joni tracks and he decides to complain about technicalities like that. What comes to silences or hidden tracks, even longer silences aren't that uncommon, and that with Joni even silence would have a purpose. Like curtains before the encore. I'm afraid my TTT is a tape copy of the CD, so I can't verify how the tracks are laid out either. My record shop worker friend made it so that I would survive until payday at the end of this week. The pause on my tape is actually much longer because "Tiger Bones" is alone on side B on my tape! way past bedtime: 3 AM, - - --jussi - - ------------- ================== End Cheated? Not exactly. It just happened that at the same time as I bought TTT I also bought a 40-min CD, with a price tag about 2/3 that of TTT. Just being picky. It really does not matter. I don't remember how TTT compares to TI in terms of length. And I would still have bought it even if I had known. The tracks have not been known to everybody. Myself for example. From reading some of the concerts so enthusiastic reviews, I expected a (much) better TTT. I do agree that silence may have a point. Take time to appreciate what is happening. Christophe ************************************** Dr Christophe Pical Dept of Plant Biochemistry Lund University PO Box 117 SE-221 00 Lund Sweden tel: +46-462227796 fax: +46-462224116 email: pbio-cpi@pop.lu.se ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:59:45 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: It is the Gorgeous-ess After having been spurred by David Marine to jump in my car and run to Tower to pick up TTT at midnight, I impulsively grabbed my car keys and decided to go for it. Tower was closed for a special event but a guard let me in just to buy it. Several copies are prominently displayed with the new releases as you walk in the front door. At the risk of not being surprised or spoiling it for me, I'd heard TTT previously on various tapes and on KCRW. It is still a surprise - wait till you hear it on the official CD - my oh my - the music is much more enhanced and gorgeous. Hearing it now in its intended state, I can think of NO criticisms of this album. The paintings are beautiful. The "thanks" in the liner notes really touched me - so simple, so heartfelt. The whole package is so warming. Excellent, beautiful and stellar. Kakki And I still LOVE Lead Balloon and think it is brilliant on many levels. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:23:38 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: bios/password thing (NJC) Evian wrote: >I made the suggestion about leaving out the names in the bios >because some people expressed concern about their privacy on the >site. I, for one, admit that I am paranoid about having my name >appear on a site because there ARE nuts out there, and I have >witnessed firsthand how some seemingly wonderful people may not >be who they appear. You are not paranoid, Evian, you are realistic. Anyone who has ever been been a victim of stalking, whether online or offline, definitely would concur with you. And Lori, please don't you take this as a personal affront, but it really troubles me when people think it is somehow "paranoid" or suspect if someone wants control of their privacy or seeks to self-protect themselves for whatever reason, (and there *are* many grounded-in- good-sense reasons to do so). Kakki NP: Man from Mars ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:36:23 +0100 From: "Philipf" Subject: Re: Timothy P. F. Ireland >Does any one know if Joni Mitchell ever had a love interest >named "Timothy Patrick Fulford Ireland". Thanks. >Denise yes, Joni Mitchell is quite popular here in Ireland. her music is available in all good record shops. Why do you ask ? Philip ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:36:33 +0100 From: "Philipf" Subject: Re: (NJC)jazzmen can't rock >Listen to "Zero Tolerance For Silance" by Pat >Metheny. >my how quickly we forget the >flailing animatronic mannequin limbs and 15-years-ahead-of-its-time >techno-raver from one Herbie Hancock -- ROCKIT!! Hello John and Don, thanks for the suggestions. I used to buy early Metheny but dropped out when he went too new agey for my taste. As for Rockit , I stand totally corrected. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 05:23:53 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Joni birthday gift ideas VOTE NOW Here is the list of birthday card/gift ideas I received. You can start voting now by sending the number of your choice to: vote@jmdl.com 1. A donation in Joni's name to the SPCA and enclose the receipt in a card. 2. A donation in Joni's name to Save the Animals and enclose the receipt in a card. 3. A collage of photos of us, taken at JMDL gatherings in Julie's and Ashara's parties as well as the Joni concerts, plus any photos of individual members that they want to submit. The collage would symbolically show Joni how her music and spirit has brought together a wide variety of people who otherwise might never have met and become friends. The message: "Thank you, Joni, for bringing us together and keeping us together. Happy birthday from the Joni Mitchell Discussion List." 4. Adopt a child through a good organization that isn't a rip-off and not affiliated with a religion. Perhaps a kid from Ethiopia to stick with a Joni theme. Whoever wants can send in money and have their names on a card we send to Joni and the kid we sponsor. This could be an annual event, so we don't have to decide what to get her for the next 20 years. We can send her a card with updates on the kid each year on her birthday 5. A bottle of Tequila and a carton of Lucky Strikes (or American Spirits). 6. A collection of postcards from where we live with a short birthday greeting. 7. A map of the world with dots or some other indicator showing where we all live. Choose a place (e.g in the Atlantic somewhere) where there is space, and have a logo with "The Joni Mitchell Discussion List" in fairly big letters. Draw lines from this logo to each of the name markers on the map. 8. Same as last year except without all the photos. The cover would be a copy of the banner used by the JMDL used at The Garden concert. 9. The JMDL cookbook -- a collection of recipes with short bios on the contributors. 10. Have all of the JMDL'ers e-mail addresses printed on a large cat pillow, you know one of those soft pillows that dogs and cats sleep on. 11. An expenses-paid trip to Jonifest '99 in Colorado. 12. A beautiful bouquet of flowers with a simple note. 13. A small box of token gifts from JMDL members, whether it be a card, poem, or whatever, something that wouldn't take up a very big box. 14. Individual birthday cards sent in by members, passed along to Wally, who would deliver them in a big sack. 15. The same sack of individual birthday cards, along with a basket of goodies (like coffee from Honduras) representing where we are from in the world. 16. A simple card, no larger than the "average" Hallmark-type card, custom made by someone with a graphics program on their PC. The front could be the illustration from Les' website of Joni with a cup of coffee, framed by a "squiggly" line to make it look like a postage stamp. Heading on the cover: "We've got stamps of many countries and we wish you a happy birthday!" Then at the bottom of the front cover: "Thank you for sharing so much joy and giving us so much inspiration ... from the Joni Mitchell Discussion List." On the inside, instead of signing names, we'd list by city, state and country where all participating JMDL members reside. 17. A JMDL community birthday card using a theme of pinball and billiards 18. A toy pinball machine 19. A beautiful sketch book, maybe with handmade paper 20. A bottle of her favorite wine 99. And last as well as least, a smelly turd wrapped in a special box, with a world map on it, showing where each of us JMDLrs lives. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:36:34 +0100 (BST) From: Howard Wright Subject: TTT released! At last! I went out to get a copy of TTT yesterday (Monday). It's so nice to hear the songs at their best. I've got so used to cassette copies of the tracks over recent months ... It's kind of strange, knowing all the tracks so well before the album comes out! It has good and bad points I guess. The album itself is a stunner, no doubt. Lead Balloon seems to be drawing a mixed response. Let me just say this : I love it! Harlem In Havana, Love Puts On A New Face, Facelift are probably my favourite tracks, though it's hard to choose. It's a shame Mark Isham wasn't properly credited for his excellent trumpet playing on "Stay In Touch". Also funny to note that one of the reviews (from one of the UK papers I think) actually points out how good Wayne Shorter was on this track! Didn't he hear it was a trumpet?! And ... *peddle* steel ? I'm also wondering about the bass on "Harlem". Sounds very much like keyboard bass, using an acoustic bass sound, but the credits say it is Larry. I've never heard Larry play acoustic bass before, so I'm thinking this might be wrong too. Comments? There were 3 copies left of TTT when I went to buy mine. Sounds like the same as UK HMV stores - they only put out 5 copies. I'll go back at the weekend to see what happens. If they have sold out, and haven't put any others to replace them, I'll scream! Howard ******************************************************* Howard.Wright@ed.ac.uk Formula music, girly guile Genuine junk food for juveniles Up and down the dial Mercenary style - Joni Mitchell ******************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:13:07 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: NJC - Lauryn Hill/Sarah McLachlan/Sheryl Crow For those who are interested in such things, this week's UK singles chart has Lauryn Hill's Doo Woop in at No.3 (79,000 copies sold), and Sarah McLachlan's Adia in at No.18. I'm enjoying all the TTT posts, and look forward to finally getting my hands on a copy at the end of the week. Oh, and Sheryl Crow's Globe Sessions is a new entry on the UK albums chart this week at No.2 (37,000 copies sold), so it obviously came out a week earlier over here. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:25:06 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: TTT released! I've been feeling nostalgic for the days when a new Joni album would sneak up on me and I'd buy it, run home and listen in a state of pristine innocence. OTOH, it was fun to wake up this morning and look forward to a day of sharing the album with my list friends. It feels like Christmas! > It's kind of strange, knowing all the tracks so well before the album > comes out! It has good and bad points I guess. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 05:29:15 PDT From: "Jos B" Subject: For your listening pleasure try........ HI All, This is my 2nd official post to the list.... :) Thanks to all who sent private email replies (greatly appreciated) I will certainly try listening more to DJWD. By the way, has anyone here heard of David Wilcox? If you like Joni, and James Taylor, and Nick Drake then you MUST, just MUST listen to this guy!!!! I promise you will not regret it! He learned guitar from a girl in college who 'used to sit in the stairwell and play Joni Mitchell. Nothing but Joni Mitchell songs' He has several albums out. My favs are 'How Did You Find Me Here', and 'Big Horizon'. He has several others out too. (Please note that there are *2* David Wilcox's. One who has a straight ahead rock band. Look for the ACOUSTIC guitar playing David) By the way, in 'The Windfall (Everything For Nothing)', what is Joni singing in the background? Sounds like 'you are the one'. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:36:19 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: WMNF Horray!!! Just announced on WMNF that they would be playing the new Joni Mitchell right after the news!! I wonder what it could be? Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:23:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: joni in usa today! There is a fabulous article of joni in usa today this morning. Right on the mark about a lot of things, this one is a must read. there is a huge photo of joni on the front of the life section (with that damned obligatory cigarette) and a very nice intro to an interview. there is also a sidebar with a photo of the man from mars painting and it tells the story behind the song. bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:54:26 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: My Guacamole Recipe So, will you share the recipe? ;-) > >Hugs, >Ashara > Don Rowe's Guacamole 3-4 ripe avocados 1 medium shallot, finely chopped 2 plum tomatoes, diced 1T fresh lime juice 1/2t Tabasco Jalapeno (the green one!) 1/2t salt 1/2t ground cumin seed 1/2t chili powder 1/2t garlic powder 1/4t coriander Mash avocado in medium glass bowl. Fold in shalltos and tomato. Add seasonings. Cover and chill for 1 hour before serving. If you are making it ahead of time, keep one avocado pit with finished guacamole to prevent browning. Serve with chips and Negro Modelo (if you can find it!) Ole! Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:29:34 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: bios/password thing (NJC) Rob/Evian/Paranoid Pete (NOT) wrote: > Sooooo, before ya all begin to think that I am some neurotic > basket-case, I just thought I would give y'all my experiences with the > whole too-much-info thing. BTW, I know that I can't really equate a > mailing discussion list with a chat room, but still, it never hurts to > be careful. Actually, Rob, that's what I wanted to see: some kind of backup to the idea of privacy within the JMDL. Certainly there are reasons for it. I've had my share of strange 'net experiences, too, but they were before I was involved with the JMDL and so perhaps I've forgotten ... I shouldn't. Anyway, thanks for sharing your experiences and insight. Lori San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:34:23 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: bios/password thing (NJC) Kakki wrote: > And Lori, please don't you take this as a personal affront, but it really > troubles me when people think it is somehow "paranoid" or suspect if > someone wants control of their privacy or seeks to self-protect themselves > for whatever reason, (and there *are* many grounded-in- good-sense reasons > to do so). I don't take it personally, Kakki. You're right, and based on my own experiences of 2 years ago, I should probably be more *private* myself. I guess it just rankles me that I should have to do that, even though I know there are reasons why. Lori San Antonio, who is paranoid enough to carry a loaded .38 around at least some of the time ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:03:16 GMT From: "Phil Klein" Subject: Re: TTT On Monday 28th September, deep in the heart of JMDL, Hassan Zubairi did utter: >I have got my TTT and there is a painting missing!!!! >The one that should accompany Crazy Cries, of Joni & Don smokin' in a >back booth of an all night cafe. Yes, I've got mine too, on Monday evening from Virgin in Leeds. Pretty respectable display and a decent number of CD's and cassettes. And I don't have this painting in my copy, either! Not that I knew it should be there. Are we being cheated? Does anybody have this picture? The CD I have (and presumably the booklet) was made in Germany - is this true for the USA copies? I've spent most of today (Tuesday) listening to TTT on the headphones on my Pentium at work. My initial impressions are very favourable; I like the texture and mood of the whole album. I agree though with some folk who tire of the VG-synthesiser-thingy guitar sound. I can understand why she needs to use it for live performances, but surely she could use an acoustic here and there for recording sessions? Phil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:04:49 -0400 From: heather Subject: (NJC)Re: pay for what? At 11:43 PM 9/28/98 EDT, you wrote: >Q:? do you need a television to watch the eagle rock special? > >all I have is a cardboard box with a hole cut out and two puppet heads stickin >out... > Is that a REAL cardboard box or a Sears cardboard box? ;-) Heather (thinkin' about Lambchop right now) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:15:35 -0500 From: "Neil E. Orts" Subject: Now Playing: Taming the Tiger!!!!!! Okay, it's only on the first track . . . it's playing and I just wanted to let you all know . . . - -Neil thankful for the optometrist appointment this morning that allowed a stop at Tower on the way in to work . . . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Neil E. Orts * . . . books are my passion, not only writing Sr. Administrative Assoc. * them and every once in a while even reading Office of Graduate Studies * them but just having them and moving them University of Texas Austin * around and feeling the comfort of their Main 101 -- 512/232-3625 * serene presence. neo@mail.utexas.edu * fax: 512/475-8851 * -Frederick Buechner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:13:52 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Amelia, vapor trails, fortune telling Last week, I was throwing the I Ching with a friend of mine--she was helping me since I hadn't done it for years and was never sure I was doing it right anyway. And we get to one point in the process/interpretation and she starts talking about the hexagram. WEll, immediately, the JM Lyric Encyclopedia in my head flipped open to Amelia and the phrase " . . . when I saw a big jet plane leaving six white vapor trails across the bleak terrain, it was the hexagram of the heavens, it was the strings of my guitar . . ." and it all made sense to me--especially in terms of what Hejira is all about--travelling and looking for answers and trying to know her own future--and this is where the I Ching comes into play. She looks at the hexagram of white vapor trails as a road sign to her future--and even that turns out to be a false alarm. And later, in "Song for Sharon", JM talks about "I saw a gypsy down on Baker Street I went in to see her as a kind of joke, and I lit a candle for my love luck and eighteen bucks went up in smoke . . . ". All of this makes total sense in the overall theme of Hejira and the search spirituality, for truth and the meaning of it all "between the forceps and the stone". and stuff like this is what makes this album so nuanced and raises it to a level of genius unlike other albums. Later, on Chalkmark, there is "The Tea Leaf Prophecy". - -- Howard Motyl Producer, MPI Teleproductions 16101 South 108th Avenue Orland Park, IL 60462 708-873-3190 708.873.3177 Fax http://www.mpimedia.com "Anytime you have the opportunity to accomplish something and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:18:13 GMT From: "Phil Klein" Subject: Re:Purple Rain /Joni chords Howard Wright wrote: >(If anyone's interested, check out the purple rain chord shapes at: >www.ph.ed.ac.uk/~haw/music/tabfiles.html ) I did, and great site, if I may say so! I also checked out your Steely Dan and Zappa pages. I take my hat off to you for tabulating the solo on Kid Charlemagne - IMHO the best guitar solo there is. BTW, you may be the only Scottish jimdle, but you aren't the only physicist! It's just that your research seems to be your hobby as well, you lucky bastard. How about collaborating on a "Joni Mitchell, closet physicist" theme? Here's some examples: "..stardust, billion year old carbon"; "..particles of change... orbiting round the sun"; "sees the cars as sets of waves, sequences of mass and space.." Just a thought... Phil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:16:58 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: For your listening pleasure try........ Jos B wrote: >By the way, in 'The Windfall (Everything For Nothing)', what is Jonisinging in the >background? Sounds like 'you are the one'. "You want the windfall" - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:26:40 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: seeing Joni - ummm....JC content, I'm just about sure Sherelle writes: >>Can anyone tell me why I'm dragging my feet to go see Joni in concert? What in the world am I afraid of? When I saw Joni during the "WTRF" tour, I was too excited after years of trying to see her to drag my feet; not since last May can I remember such giddy anticipation. But....when she walked out and started a, (to me), rather bland and dull rendition of "Coyote," I burst into tears. You get used to the album version and the live one can be a shock. On the bright side, as the song hit: "...and a local band was playing," and her backup kicked in, the energy level rose and the rest of the concert, (like last May), met all of my expectations and a whole lot more. MG PS. TTT update from this neck of the woods: A qarter page ad in a local independent rag from a local mom and pop shop that tells me the record company is spreading around some advertising dollars. (these stores rarely place ads from $$ out of their own pocket. Nearly always a case of label support). PPS Colin, you are next. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 98 15:27:00 GMT From: kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant) Subject: Re: joni in usa today! Great article! Thanks for spotting this Bill! I cut and pasted it below for those w/o WWW/newstand access! -Kenny ==================================================================== Joni Mitchell, still untamed By Edna Gundersen, USA TODAY LOS ANGELES — She taught herself guitar using a Pete Seeger instruction manual and played ukulele while at art college, humble beginnings for a career steeped in prestige and authority. From 1968's self-titled debut to Tuesday's release of Taming the Tiger, a smart and spirited jazz-inflected pop album, Joni Mitchell has lived up to her billing as one of the rock era's masters. It's noteworthy that she made the cut in People's "Unforgettable Women of the Century" issue, not under Divas, but under Creators, alongside Maya Angelou, Gertrude Stein and Grandma Moses. At 54, Mitchell remains a daring alchemist with a restless muse, ignoring fads to pursue music that's classical, sophisticated, experimental and challenging. On her lauded 17th album, maturity and independence entwine in engaging songs about business and pleasure. Revered and imitated for the past 30 years, this lady of the canyon refuses to rest on laurels or slip into history's shadows. Artistically, if not commercially, she stands tallest in the current field of female pop sensations, who claim her as a guiding spirit and freely loot her legacy. Though the vestiges of childhood polio limited her concert schedule in recent years, the Canadian-born singer returned to the stage with strength and style this year: touring with Van Morrison and Bob Dylan, eclipsing the female cast at Don Henley's Walden Woods benefit and appearing at the Woodstock-inspired A Day in the Garden festival. She rejoins Dylan for shows starting Oct. 23 and stars in a Nov. 6 pay-per-view concert. Despite this decade's fixation on fresh noise, her reach is formidable. Janet Jackson's hit Got 'Til It's Gone was built on Mitchell's Big Yellow Taxi. On his current Timeless Tales, Joshua Redman does an instrumental cover of Mitchell's I Had a King. Her A Case of You appears on the Practical Magic soundtrack. She remakes The Magdalene Laundries on an upcoming Chieftains album, contributes two songs to Herbie Hancock's Gershwin's World and sings Trouble Man on the debut album by bassist Kyle Eastwood (son of Clint). Though Mitchell swore off the "degrading" interview process a few years ago, she recently relented. Over a two-hour lunch of pasta, cranberry juice and cigarettes at her favorite haunt in Brentwood, Mitchell plumbed personal and professional topics, from her disdain for today's pop to her delight in being a grandma. Q: You've influenced scores of current hitmakers. Does it irk you that today's Joni-wannabes outsell you? A: It's disheartening, but you have to accept it. They're not as good, because they're generational, and yet they outsell me 20 to 1. I go back and forth between accepting it and railing against it. A lot of copycats are produced by producers who study my work and try to make a formula out of it. They pit them against me in the marketplace, declare them the new me while I'm still alive and then don't let me in the game. That's frustrating and painful. Q: You've also decried the ongoing musical chairs at the corporate level. A: The chair at the top kept getting occupied and fired. When they fire these guys, they pay them millions to go away, more than an artist is ever paid, more than Janet Jackson was paid to be signed. There's tremendous inequity. "You failed! Here's $60 million!" What is that? So the money artists made was wasted paying these jerks who didn't know what they were doing to go away. That fed my resentment. Q: So you voiced those complaints to your label. A: I had a pretty bad attitude. I said, "I loathe and despise the record business. I'm beyond an unhappy camper here." We worked out some things. I didn't ask for the moon. For my self-respect, amelioration had to be delivered, things had to change. I consider it a civil liberties issue that record companies basically abandon artists once they're established. Q: Did that happen to you? A: Because of my experimental nature, I became an artist without a genre, so finally radio and MTV wouldn't play me. The label says, "We don't care if you sell records." I said, "That's the trouble! You won't put a penny behind me." I said, "Look, if I'm good enough that everybody is being compared to me, just let me in the game." My work is better: It's got more depth, more breadth, more nutrition; it's not the flavor of the week. It actually has the ability to endure. Q: In such a deflating atmosphere, how did you endure? A: I turned to Aesop's turtle: slow and steady. Every time the industry slam-dunked a project of mine and elevated something else because it was new, I had to wax philosophic and wait. I finally got impatient. It made me want to get out of the business, and that's where I was at the brink of making this album. Maybe the gods gave me a break, because all of a sudden people began to notice that I was undervalued and they gave me a lot of honorariums. They knew they should give me something, but they didn't seem to really know why. Q: Why didn't you attend your induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? A: A museum is only as good as its curators. There's a lot of stuff sold that doesn't deserve to go into the Hall of Fame — the Fabians and Milli Vanillis. But they seem to put in anyone who had a Top 10 record. So the honor wasn't really there. And the expense! You're expected to go, play a free concert, pay exorbitant prices to seat your family, and they give you this trinket, a dubious honor. It was exploitive and I resented it. My time was better spent with my kids. It was my first Mother's Day. Q: In 1965, you had a daughter you gave up for adoption six months later. You recently reunited with Kilauren Gibb and met your grandson, Marlin. Are they now fixtures in your life? A: Yeah, I love them and I love to see them. They're very fulfilling to me. She's in the process of separating from her husband, which is always difficult. I just came through a divorce with my husband (Larry Klein) but I'm older, and we went right out on the road together. So my perspective is, "Surely you can get along and find the good things to latch on to." Easy for me to say. Q: In the song Chinese Cafe, you sang, "My child's a stranger; I bore her but I could not raise her." Did you hope she would hear you? A: I wanted her to know that she was on my mind. Q: Was it difficult to let go of your baby girl? A: I was very stoic about it. I blocked out the day that I signed the papers. I must have been quasi-hysterical. It says in the file that it was "very difficult for mother emotionally." I don't even remember. I was made to feel ashamed, but I don't have any guilt about that loss and the ugly gantlet of opinion you first walk through. I couldn't find another way. I had no money to put a roof over my head or feed myself, let alone buy diapers, and no one to ask help from. And I was wildly independent. I married (folk singer) Chuck Mitchell, and he said he didn't want to raise another person's child, so I had to give her up. Q: Did you instantly bond when you were reunited? A: The moment I laid eyes on her. She looked at me and I looked at her, and we made the same sound at the same time: "Mm-hmm." We had the same speaking voice. She looks a lot like my mom. Q: In Facelift, you reveal a holiday-season rift with your mother, who complains that you and your boyfriend "shacked up downtown, making love without a license." Has she heard it? A: She hates it, but she's coming around. When I premiered it in Canada four years ago, her take was that I disgraced her in front of the nation. I said, "Look, Mom, this is no longer our song." So many women have said to me, "That's just what my Christmas was like." It's so universal, especially between our generations. They're never going to let go, the war generation. Their way of thinking is too ingrained. Q: In dealing with such personal issues, do you censor yourself or shade the truth to avoid revealing too much? A: I'm always trying to expose a universal truth. It's easy for me to use myself as subject matter because I can take it. Most people don't like portraits unless they flatter them. Some themes require stirring up and sustaining an emotion that isn't a fun companion. When I wrote Facelift, my mother and I were at war. It was really painful. But if you're going to be in pain anyway, why not stare it in the eyeball and turn it into a jewel? Q: In the title track, you label current music "genuine junk food for juveniles." A: When I wrote that, I thought contemporary music standards had dropped off a cliff. I'd leave the dial set on a station for two days and try to find something good and I couldn't. I do like Sheryl Crow, who's self-sufficient, and Bjork, a fiery little thing. But I got sick about hoodlum songs that are turning white trailer-park kids into vandals. I'm not a blue-haired little old lady, but I think it's a bad cultural influence. This isn't hip or smart. We don't need a society of pimps and vandals. Why is this the cultural vanguard? Q: When did the industry lose its artistic integrity? A: When record companies went public, the records became poker chips. Once the stock market is involved, you're pandering to the lowest common denominator, and there are fewer people at the label to champion a good song. Look back at the Grammy song-of-the-year winners of the last 10 years. It's tragic. Q: You were sticken with polio at 9. Did that influence your career in music and art? A: I had athletic ability in a community that revered athletes. When I got polio, I could no longer take part in it. I lost muscles, especially in my back, and reflexes in my legs, so I lost my running ability and my competitive swimming ability. I've had a lot of body pain in my life, but I'm opposed to the AMA's diagnosis for post-polio syndrome, which says don't exercise, lie down and die, basically. Now I'm proceeding through polio as I did in childhood, with the attitude that I'm not a cripple. Q: You're an unapologetic smoker. Has your habit changed your voice? A: It's added some husk. With age, the high end goes, anyway. Barbra Streisand's having trouble with her high end, and she's not a smoker. Women sopranos retire at about my age. But Aretha (Franklin) smokes, and she's singing opera with a beautiful husky quality. I don't do things a virtuoso should. I think of myself as a painter who makes music, so I probably don't keep the instrument as oiled as I should. I've lost about four notes at the top. I've got a big range, so it's no big loss. I don't need to go sailing around the stratosphere. Q: You're regarded as a strong and independent woman, yet you've never embraced feminism. A: No, because I still see honor and grace in domestic duties. I also wasn't an anarchist, so I didn't fit my generation. Nor was I a nihilist, so I didn't fit the next. I never found an ism that was mine. Q: What's next? A: I want to record standards, where I'm just a singer and there's only one mood to sustain. My songs tend to entail more acting than singing. Instead of having so much nuanced drama to do, I'd like to sing some pretty notes and lighten up. It's the way I feel right now. I did most of my heavy worrying between 27 and 33. It made me strong but it nearly flattened me. I thought so deep and so hard, it scared the wee out of me and I entered into a long depression. I like my life better now. ========================================================================== On 9/29/98 9:23AM Bill Dollinger wrote: There is a fabulous article of joni in usa today this morning. Right on the mark about a lot of things, this one is a must read. there is a huge photo of joni on the front of the life section (with that damned obligatory cigarette) and a very nice intro to an interview. there is also a sidebar with a photo of the man from mars painting and it tells the story behind the song. bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:45:07 -0700 From: bamm_bamm@juno.com (Liz Johnson) Subject: Sammy! (NJC) Mark has nothing but time to sneeze at now...but Sammy is playoff bound!!! My baseball hero of the summer was definately Sammy. You know, the Cubs could win the World Series...I'll be routing for them. Running out to buy TTT this morning :-) Liz >Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:53:43 -0500 >From: Howard Motyl >Subject: BAseball thread NJC > >66 homeruns ain't nothing to sneeze at either. > > >"Anytime you have the opportunity to accomplish something >and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:46:44 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: There ain't no tigers on this island Go ahead and try and buy the tiger in south georgia today. Go ahead. Just try. I went to two stores. At the first store I asked the clerk if they had gotten it in. I clearly said Joni Mithchell's Taming the Tiger. The clerk says yes, its in the back. She goes away and comes out five minutes later with Sheryl Crow. At the second store, the clerk tells me to check in the kids section. I tell her a second time, " its taming the tiger, not tony the tiger". Then I say, "if it was the Allman Brothers, you'd have it wouldn't you?" She tells me, 'y'all don't have to get mean about it'. I tried to explain about all these other people in real cities that have it already and how I have to read all these posts and reviews and criticisms and gushing love inns about this cd. She tells me, 'you look like you've lived fine with out it so far, so why get so upset about it?' 'Besides, she says, what kind of life will y'all have if y'always trying to get what they all else already got anyway?' ???? So, with that said, I realized, I don't need really need it anyway. Why, I just bought TI only a few months ago. I never bought Court and Spark until 1996. I bought Hejira in the early 90's and I never bought Ladies of the Canyon until 1977. So why rush? Who needs it that bad anyway? This is south georgia. Relax. Relax. Relax. That's why you live on an island. To get away from the race. The Tiger Race. pj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:04:36 -0400 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: More $7.99 titles In addition to the previously mentioned Blue and C&S, here are other albums on sale for $7.99 at Tower. I know some of you like to spread the word with gifts--now might be a good time to stock up: Song to a Seagull Clouds Ladies of the Canyon For the Roses Hissing of Summer Lawns Hejira Mingus If there's no Tower in your area, you can order online at: http://www.towerrecords.com/ - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:07:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: Re: TTT I believe wally said this painting accompanied the crazy cries single, not the TTT cd. Bill On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Phil Klein wrote: > > >I have got my TTT and there is a painting missing!!!! > > >The one that should accompany Crazy Cries, of Joni & Don smokin' in a > >back booth of an all night cafe. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:12:04 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Re: Amelia, vapor trails, fortune telling PMcfad@aol.com wrote: > > whats an i ching? Good question. I Ching is an ancient Chinese method of predicting/interpreting/guiding your future. There are various methods of doing it--throwing sticks or throwing coins and then recording the patterns those objects make. Once you have the patterns recorded, you go to a book of I Ching and look for the pattern in the book that matches the pattern that you have thrown. When find the pattern, it refers you to a page in the book that interprets what you have thrown. It tells you about the underlying currents of change in your present state and your future state. At one point in the practice of I Ching, after the sticks or coins are thrown and the patterns are established, there are six lines/rows, each with its own pattern, and this is called the hexagram. The hexagram pattern tells you about your future--hence, the importance of the "hexagram of the heavens" in Amelia. The idea of the I Ching is that the energy of change is in you and that energy is transferred to the coins or sticks that you throw. They create patterns which you then interpret using the I Ching. More or less, but anyone should add if they know more. Howard M PS Is the other Howard in England? "Anytime you have the opportunity to accomplish something and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:21:04 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: There ain't no tigers on this island catman wrote: > PJ that really made me laugh! we get that sort of 'service' here all the time. It > is just not British to complain so we get treated like shit all the time. Service > was the thing that really impressed me on my trip to New England-and it was > sincere. here I am considered eccentric cos I complain. never rudely and always > calmly. Tho sometimes i feel like telling them to go **&^%* themselves. here the > store staff don't even look at you let alone say anyhting like Hello. Today i > bought petrol and the young man at the till didn't even look at me. I asjed him if > he hated his job. too obtuse for him-he gave me a glazed over look. > > Luckily I have had TTT for weeks now. - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:23:24 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Amelia, vapor trails, fortune telling Howard, dear man, just chuck your I Ching and ask me instead.(and no I ain't pulling your leg) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:31:29 -0000 From: "Steven A. Blue" Subject: Re: Parody Tantrum stars now NJC That was truly a wonderful story. I have to chime in with my 12 year old when she was about 4. We were living in Europe at the time and while coming home very late (the next day after a very long case), I began to climb the stairs to the master Bedroom....from the bedroom, I could hear my youngest daughter humming the most wonderful sone I ever heard a child hum (smile). The father in me began to tear with joy of the fond memories being made at this time in my life, all coming from this wonderful innocent beautiful creature whom I had a part in creating.....so when the song took a small break, I went into the bedroom to just hold and snuggle this little princess.......to my surprise, ther she was, stark naked, standing on the dresser in front of the mirror and let me tell you......"powder" was everywhere! She had gotten into her mother's body powder and decided she needed some too! It was in her hair, all over the dresser, on the carpeting, I mean E-V-E-R-Y-W-H-E-R-E. I couldn't stop laughing, nor could I find a camera when I needed one the most! Take care all! Steve - -----Original Message----- From: Julie Z. Webb To: joni@smoe.org Date: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 4:20 AM Subject: re: Parody Tantrum stars now NJC >At 11:53 PM 9/28/98 +0100, Rob Jordon wrote: >>After a troublesome day with my four-year-old twins, I wrote the following, >>which, I hasten to add, is a work of fiction! They're great kids, really, >>you'd love 'em :-) > Boy we can relate.--- Our six-year-old twin boys snuck off with our >garage door opener. While driving down the parkway, I caught them in my >rearview mirror---throwing the garage door opener out of the car window. >But that wasn't as bad as the time that they were found stuffing plastic >toy food into the tiny slot of our furnace. The babysitter, coming out of >the loo, was shocked to find them in the basement surrounded by a white >cloud of smoke... (They said that they were baking.) > -Julie, who worries about how far they'll go once they're out of the >rocket building phase. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:23:04 EDT From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: "Harry's House" is at WPKN 89.5 FM Bridgeport CT Listener supported Radioy Hi Harry (Station Manager of 89.5 FM WPKN Bridgeport, CT), I am copying this post to the Joni Mitchell Discussion List. So while I am trying to drum up support for airplay of Joni's new one, the JMDL is also becoming aware of my favorite radio station. Just wanted to follow up and remind you that Joni Mitchell's Taming the Tiger was released today in the US. Very jazzy. Very Joni. By the way, she'll be in concert with Bob Dylan on Nov. 1st at Madison Square Garden. Also, if there are any joniphiles at PKN or you wanna plug us on the radio, there's more info about Joni at Joni Mitchell.com and at JMDL.com (Joni Mitchell Discussion List - --a first class cyberville). With all the horror stories about the Internet, here's instead a happy one. Joni found her daughter through the Internet. She gave her away for adoption 30 years ago (Little Green) and superfan Wally Breese who created Joni Mitchell.com ,helped Joni reunite with her daughter through a questionnaire he posted to his sight. Joni like PKN is ecletic and definitely not mainstream. Just perfect for PKN. Afterall, Harry she did right a song about you on "The Hissing of Summer Lawns". Time to return the favor!:-) In fun, - -Brian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:53:43 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: For your listening pleasure try........ From: "Marsha" Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:31:40 -0400 >By the way, in 'The Windfall (Everything For Nothing)', what is Joni >singing in the background? Sounds like 'you are the one'. I think she is singing: "You want the world....you want it all". Marsha, waiting for the tiler to leave so I can go to the record store AND go out and get USA Today at Bill D's recommendation ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:49:59 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: TTT-on the air in Norway From: "morten feiring" Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:45:36 +0100 Hi all! Last night, when about to drive one of my sons to a birthday party, sitting down in our car, switching on the radio - there she was! : "Harlem in Havana" My heart went................. Then came Love puts on a new face, and finally Man from Mars, which immediately struck me as a very beautiful song. TTT and Joni then got some very nice words from the man behind the microphone. He then went on to encourage people to check out the JMHP! His last words about TTT were: RUN and BUY! So I'm off to the music store now, and hoping it's there !!! Morten ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:54:57 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: It is the Gorgeous-ess From: "Marsha" Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:39:21 -0400 >After having been spurred by David Marine to jump in my car and run to Tower >to pick up TTT at midnight, I impulsively grabbed my car keys and decided to >go for it. Tower was closed for a special event but a guard let me in just >to buy it. Several copies are prominently displayed with the new releases >as you walk in the front door. Hey, Kakki and all, I have this fantasy of Joni being upstairs at Tower late last night in that manager's booth where the floor of the store can be viewed...she's puffing away on a ciggy, all nervous, wondering if ANYONE in Los Angeles or in the world will care... she watches you eagerly go over to her display....sees you all jumping up and down like excited kids in a candy store... she delights at your scarfing up multiple copies of her new baby... she parties 'til dawn, happy in the knowledge others are partying 'til dawn, savoring her palette of listening pleasures... Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:52:42 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: TTT, HOSL and Norwegian connection From: "morten feiring" Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:13:27 +0100 Hi again. TTT: Big let-down: TTT will not be in my local music store before thursday or friday. That's the punishment for living in what one might call reasonably rural surroundings, I suppose. HOSL: There was some discussion on JMDL some time back about HOSL as worst album of the year according to, was it Rolling Stone? Well anyway, I remember back in the old days when I used to read some british rock music magazines: Sounds, New Musical Express and Melody Maker, I'm quite sure that Melody Maker voted HOSL the best album of the year! Can anyone confirm this? Norwegian connection: Joni has done one concert in Norway: 13th of May 1983 in Oslo. I'm proud to say I was there, on the front row. Great moment in time! There she confirmed that her father was norwegian. She also said in a MOJO interview in december 1994: "My paternal grandmother came from Norway......." Does anyone know more about her norwegian background? Morten ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #380 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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