From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #374 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, September 25 1998 Volume 03 : Number 374 JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- UK and Ireland JMDL (NJC) [Dmascall@aol.com] (NJC) Janis Ian Auction [davidmarine@webtv.net (David Marine)] Re: M (VLJC) [catman ] JMDL Bios - web page [M.Russell@iaea.org] Logistics of cookbook preparation [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: negative reviews [Howard Wright ] negative reviews (again!, but short) [Howard Wright ] Re : "M" (VLJC) [Jason Maloney ] Re: Re : "M" (VLJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Birthday Idea (JC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Re : "M" (VLJC) [Jason Maloney ] NJC - Bios [Jason Maloney ] Re: JMDL Bios - web page ["Philipf" ] where's my Taming the Tiger ?? [Jjones99@aol.com] Re: Birthday Idea (JC) [catman ] Bio Thread (NJC) [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Re : "M" (VLJC) [TerryM2442@aol.com] B-day Cookbook ["John M. Lind" ] bio [Susan McNamara ] I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore! (NJC) [Ashara@aol.] NJC but attached to a missive [Howard Motyl ] Bio: My X Files NJC ["Julie Z. Webb" ] get well soon kitty (NJC) [bamm_bamm@juno.com (Liz Johnson)] Re: Birthday Idea (JC) ["Julie Z. Webb" ] TTT review [Hassan Zubairi ] TTT review #2 [Hassan Zubairi ] Re: JMDL Cookbook [Charstarl@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V3 #373 [MmeDido@aol.com] Indianapolis: Hotel Arrangements [Roger Walker ] Concert mailing lists [Les Irvin ] RE: I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore! (NJC) [Brett C] TTT reviewed in the Times of London 9/25/98 [Sumiko Keay ] Re: Rain in my Future (Georges) NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: JMDL Digest V3 #373 [RELLIEA@aol.com] Re: where's my Taming the Tiger ?? [Mike Friedman ] light relief [catman ] I Have Chicago Tickets ... ["Don Rowe" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 03:53:51 EDT From: Dmascall@aol.com Subject: UK and Ireland JMDL (NJC) >philipf@tinet.ie wrote: >>I'm the only JMDLer living in Scotland >>Howard >I know how you feel. I'm the only JMDLer living in Ireland. I think. >Philip in Galway Who will complete the Celtic circle? I'd nominate myself as semi-Welsh representative but for the small detail that I haven;t lived there for 20 years . "Hwyl" it be? David Mascall (lover of bad puns and parentheses) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:37:18 -0700 (PDT) From: davidmarine@webtv.net (David Marine) Subject: (NJC) Janis Ian Auction I've noticed a few listers have posted about Janis Ian, and I thought they might be interested in this info. Janis is conducting a fascinating auction in an effort to raise funds to establish scholarships in memory of her mother. She's auctioning tapes (including safety masters and out-takes), guitars and pianos, personal jewelry, vintage vinyl, gold and platinum records -- it's really an interesting collection. You can check it out at www.songs.com/janisian David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:34:38 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: M (VLJC) Moyet Madonna Mitchell Moroder McColl Moby ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:36:06 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: JMDL Bios - web page Dear Listers, Since it seems like there is very much support for the idea of a cookbook of our favorite recipes, and since I have offered to collect and format the recipes and probably append a short bio of the individual contributors, I've collected (from the digests I've received up until the one I got at 9 a.m. this morning) the bios people have sent to JMDL so far. I'm hoping this will help me later on when I have to put the recipes and bios together. You can look at them on the following page: http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/jmdlbios.htm Hopefully I didn't overlook anyone's bio! If I did, please send me a private message with your bio and I will add it. Likewise, if you want to edit your bio, or remove it, or if you're adding your bio, send me a message. Also, if anyone objects to me doing this, please let me know! Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:46:26 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Logistics of cookbook preparation I think maybe getting the cookbook to Joni by Christmas might be a better plan than trying to get it ready for her birthday, but I can shoot for the birthday deadline if most people want that. Some considerations about a birthday deadline for me are that I've got a week and a half training course coming up in October, where I'll be out of the office most of the time, and I'll be in the USA from Oct. 23-Nov. 1, so I won't be able to do very much work on the cookbook during those times. However, I'm a flash at working with text and I work well under pressure, so I'll do my best towards whatever people decide. The most important things to me are that everyone is included and we don't miss anyone, that the recipes are accurate and nicely formatted and that the final hardcopy that we send to Joni is beautiful. I'll work on the accurate part and attempt to at least format everything consistently and nicely, and let other people take care of the beautiful. I would prefer limiting the number of recipes (for food or scented oils or whatever the heck you want) to one favorite recipe from each person. I liked the idea of naming the recipes after some Joni song title or lyric, but I'm hopeless in being clever about these things - I can't even figure out something for the recipe I want to submit! - so if you want to do that for your recipe, please don't look to me for any help!! Maybe if we could somehow have a short discussion about how to do all of this and then people could start sending me their favorite recipes??? Even if we want to do this by Christmas it would be a good idea to get going on it! Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:37:36 +0100 (BST) From: Howard Wright Subject: Re: negative reviews Just a few comments on the negative reviews posted by Steve. 1. I totally agree that it is healthy to be reminded of the fact that not everyone sees Joni the way we do. I think we can benefit from hearing or sharing genuine criticisms of her music/concerts. 2. A lot (not all) of what was written in the two reviews were not genuine criticisms - more ignorance, prejudice and rumour dressed up as fact. Steve has already made some good comments. A couple of things I wanted to add: >From: Rich Warren > >She played the same electric guitar throughout, with a monotonously >limited range of chords. I don't buy this. Limited number of chord shapes? Yes. But with all her different tunings, the same shape can end up being 20 different chords. I would bet that a typical concert by Joni uses a wider variety of chords than almost any other artist/band (OK, not including Steely Dan, Frank Zappa and the like). As Joni often likes to remind us, pop music has incredibly narrow tastes in terms of rhythm and chords. Joni has very broad tastes in these things. (And anyway, what's necessarily wrong with using the same chords? Neil Young and Bob Dylan have written dozens of great songs using pretty much the same D, Am7, G type chords. A song can still be rich, touching, varied, even if its chords are simple. Ravel's Bolero is quite a popular piece - that only uses 4 chords!) >She performed no songs written prior to 1990 other than "Big Yellow Taxi" I guess we are all used to this criticism by now. Trouble is, it is rarely true. What *is* true is that Joni likes to put a fairly strong emphasis on recent material (i.e NRH, TI, TTT), but she also regularly plays tracks from Hejira, Hissing of SL, Mingus, Wild Things. Maybe because some people are unfamiliar with these tracks, they automatically assume they are "new"? I don't quite understand why, but a lot of people seem to only count Joni's Blue/Ladies of the Canyon and Court and Spark material as "old" - Hissing, Hejira, DJRD, Mingus always seem to be categorised as "other stuff that we don't really (want to) know about". >Her new songs seem lyrically interesting, but nearly impossible to >comprehend because the sound system operator equalized her voice by >removing the treble to conceal her vocal flaws, I'm sure he checked with the sound engineer to establish exactly why he decided to remove the treble, right? >After a six minute ovation at the conclusion, she >refused to perform an encore. Rumor has it that someone in the first >rowed yawned which set her off into a tantrum in the green room. Maybe this was true, maybe not, but it's kind of careless/pointless to include rumours in a review of a concert. >From: (anon) >She appeared to be in a very foul >mood, announced immediately that she wouldn't be playing any "old" songs, Same thing. I bet Joni didn't say she wouldn't play any "old songs" - rather that she would play more of her new stuff, as well as some of those songs like Hejira and Moon at The Window which nobody knows, so must be from her new album ;-) >then proceeded to butcher the first song she tried, so much so that she >had to stop and start again... it appeared that she couldn't remember the >chords. This happened once more than once. I have to agree, that Joni can really spoil a song sometimes by fluffing the chords. In her defence - with all those tunings, it makes it hard work to get all the right shapes (don't I know it!). But, if she gives a concert, she surely has time to refresh her memory? In the pre-VG8 days she had tuning problems to deal with - which again, I have sympathy for, yet live tapes show she fiddles *too much* sometimes, having to stop a song to flatten a string that she just sharpened 10 seconds ago! OK, enough! Howard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:48:15 +0100 (BST) From: Howard Wright Subject: negative reviews (again!, but short) With the release of TTT imminnent, I guess it's a good time to bring the subject of negative reviews up. I've been really interested to read the comments people have sent in to Wally's new pages - some good points being made. When I was writing my review, I had to be very aware of not simply saying "TTT is great! I love it! Everything is wonderful!" I think TTT *is* great - the songs are among the best she has written, but it's always nice to balance the praise with constructive criticism. I think there is broad agreement on the fact that her clean electric-guitar type sound on the VG8 is nice, but used too much. Why not vary it? I also feel that Wayne Shorter's contributions, though usually excellent and imaginative, are a bit over-used. Joni's vocals sometimes lose out because they are battling to be heard with the sax. I'd also love to hear Wayne Shorter play tenor sax on a Joni song, just for the variety of sound. I'm hoping that many more people will send in reviews to Wally's page - and I'm looking forward to reading them all! Howard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:17:08 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re : "M" (VLJC) I'm still a fairly new JMDL-er, so I'll add my contribution to this thread..... I'm one of those sad people who not only alphabetacize their collection, but also group together artists who are linked in some way (Tricky goes with Massive Attack, Aimee Mann with Til Tuesday, Morrissey with the Smiths etc.). So, under "M" you would find...... MacColl, Kirsty Madness Suggs Madonna Manic Street Preachers Mansun Marillion Fish Marx, Richard Massive Attack Tricky Shara Nelson McCartney, Paul (yeah, I know, should be with The Beatles, right?) McDonald, Michael McKee, Maria Lone Justice Meat Loaf Jim Steinman Mellencamp, John (Cougar) Metallica Michael, George Wham! Midnight Oil Miles, Robert Minogue, Kylie The Mission Mitchell, Joni (who?) Morissette, Alanis Morrison, Van Moyet, Alison M People .....a very diverse selection, I admit :-) "McLachlan, Sarah" will be added on 5th October (Surfacing's UK release date). Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:01:23 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Re : "M" (VLJC) In a message dated 9/25/98 7:13:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jason.maloney@virgin.net writes: << I'm one of those sad people who not only alphabetacize their collection, but also group together artists who are linked in some way >> Well, Jason, you really are confused, aren't you? In my experience, people either store their albums alphabetically or sort them by genre (my preference), but you've managed to try both. Incredible. I don't know howm any you have, but I bet if you have a large collection you can't find anything without a long search! Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:19:35 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Birthday Idea (JC) In a message dated 9/24/98 1:02:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kbarnicle@ensr.com writes: << Here are some ideas for a great quiche recipe: Quiche and Spark,Quiche at the Window, Solid Quiche, I had a Quiche, Immposible Quiche, Edith and the Quiche, Quiche Me (i think I'm hungry again), Big Yellow Quiche, Quiches of the Canyon, This Quiche Tonight, Let the Quiche Carry Me, The Only Quiche in Town >> Excuse me, but these are not recipes. They are titles. There is a BIG difference. My late mother was one of the most experimental cooks you'd ever meet -- THREE of her recipes made it to the Finals of the Pillsbury Bake-Off. But she also had some failures, too. Usually, the stinkers had the best names -- such as her chili pancakes, which she called Tortilla Flats. You don't put out a recipe book by coming up with a bunch of clever titles. And you don't throw together a recipe book in three weeks. The JMDL cookbook is a great idea, but we should take two months, not two weeks, and have copies available for more than just Joni. This is an idea that should be used as a fundraiser for Wally and Les to help defray their website costs, like the shirts, not just as a birthday gift to Joni. The idea is good; the currently proposed application is not. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:30:06 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Re : "M" (VLJC) Paul, well actually, it's not that hard.....at least not when the CD storage boxes are numbered! Joni is in Drawer No. 40......in fact, she takes up over half of the 20 allocated slots :-) It sounds more complicated than it is.....but it means that only I ever know where anything is - useful to deter pesky people who want to borrow stuff without my permission! Jason. IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > Well, Jason, you really are confused, aren't you? > In my experience, people either store their albums alphabetically or sort > them by genre (my preference), but you've managed to try both. Incredible. I > don't know howm any you have, but I bet if you have a large collection you > can't find anything without a long search! > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:59:55 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: NJC - Bios OK, here's yet ANOTHER one for you all....... :-) Jason Maloney aka : English^Patient, EP fav books : The English Patient, Fever Pitch, All My Sins Remembered fav artists : Edward Hopper, Jack Vettriano fav music : Joni, Blue Nile, Neil Finn/Crowded House, Peter Gabriel, Everything But The Girl, Sting, George Michael, Depeche Mode, Howard Jones, Fleetwood Mac. fav films : The English Patient, Schindler's List, Heat, LA Confidential, the Three Colours trilogy, Face/Off, Sliding Doors, Sommersby, the Shawshank Redemption, the Star Wars trilogy. fav actors : Ralph Fiennes, Richard Gere, Al Pacino, John Cusack, Ewan MacGregor, Kevin Spacey, Liam Neeson, John Travolta, Nic Cage, Tom Hanks fav actresses : Claire Danes, Gwyneth Paltrow, Sigourney Weaver, Juliette Binoche, Irene Jacob, Jodie Foster, Meg Ryan, Kate Beckinsale, Michelle Pfeiffer. fav foods : Spaghetti (non-meat), Pizza (with extra puree! you got that?), marmite (vegemite) toast, tuna bake, "croque monsieur" (toasted ham & cheese sandwhich) fav colours : deep blues and purples.....nothing vivid! fav angel : ....obviously means different things to different people on here, so I'll pass :-) fav quote : "fear can hold you prisoner. hope can set you free" - The Shawshank Redemption. fav hobbies : listening to music, watching films, shopping for CDs and videos :-) fav activities : mostly house-bound with ME/CFS, so it would be playing sports on the PC. And trying to resussitate (sp?) my social life (once pronounced dead). fav PC games : Premier Manager, International Cricket Captain, British Open Golf. occupation : currently doing correspondence-based writing course. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:51:35 +0100 From: "Philipf" Subject: Re: JMDL Bios - web page I've always wanted to do one of these. Best name: Philip Fulham Best film : Three Colours Red, The Last Picture Show Best books : Feel like Goin Home - Peter Guralnick Berlin Wall Cafe - Paul Durkan Best records : Afterhours - The Bothy Band, TNT - Tortoise, Scene from 6am - cane141, Carolan's Receipt - Derek Bell Best Joni: Miles of Aisles Best Bob : Blonde on Blonde Best pet : Luckai - the dog Best Angel: Kate (6) Best food : Kirwan's Lane, Galway. Best at : Golf Varied Career : Guy at the gaspumps Ice cream man Cumputer industry exec (the lost years) Music industry pauper (the fun years) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:58:02 EDT From: Jjones99@aol.com Subject: where's my Taming the Tiger ?? Hi folks. Yep, I'm one of those who seems to read a whole lot more then write but I can't begin to say how important the Joni digest is to me... Anyway,I was wondering if anybody has had the same experience with trying to order Taming the Tiger via the internet from the CD Zone. In mid july I read on the digest that one can order the new CD from the CD zone and would receive it before it came out in the states. I ordered it on 7-20-98 and haven't heard from the company since. In their info while ordering it's stated that all CD's will be received within a month. Of course that didn't happen so I E-mailed them but haven't heard back. Have I been duped or or was It all just a joni-digest dream ...thinking that I would get TTT before the due date?? Has anyone else sent for it and what happened?? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 14:02:24 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Birthday Idea (JC) Gosh, without Paul we wouldn't know how wrong or stupid we are. Seems we cannot even get our record collections properly ordered. I must go and change mine straight away. IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/24/98 1:02:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > kbarnicle@ensr.com writes: > > << Here are some ideas > for a great quiche recipe: > > Quiche and Spark,Quiche at the Window, Solid Quiche, I had a Quiche, > Immposible Quiche, Edith and the Quiche, Quiche Me (i think I'm hungry again), > Big Yellow Quiche, Quiches of the Canyon, This Quiche Tonight, Let the Quiche > Carry Me, The Only Quiche in Town >> > > Excuse me, but these are not recipes. They are titles. There is a BIG > difference. > My late mother was one of the most experimental cooks you'd ever meet -- > THREE of her recipes made it to the Finals of the Pillsbury Bake-Off. > But she also had some failures, too. Usually, the stinkers had the best > names -- such as her chili pancakes, which she called Tortilla Flats. > You don't put out a recipe book by coming up with a bunch of clever titles. > And you don't throw together a recipe book in three weeks. > The JMDL cookbook is a great idea, but we should take two months, not two > weeks, and have copies available for more than just Joni. > This is an idea that should be used as a fundraiser for Wally and Les to > help defray their website costs, like the shirts, not just as a birthday gift > to Joni. > The idea is good; the currently proposed application is not. > > Paul I > - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:06:43 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Bio Thread (NJC) OK, here goes.... RMURocks@aol.com, aka Bob Muller 1. book: Someone else already took "Owen Meany", so I'll say "The Yearling". I literally had tears dripping on the pages of the book when I read it as an eigth-grader. 2. album: Impossible to pick one... a. fav Joni: Hejira b. faves by others: Tom Waits "Blue Valentine" West Side Story Soundtrack Doobie Brothers "What Were Once Vices Are Now Habits" XTC: "English Settlement" PM Dawn: "Jesus Wept" Elvis Costello: This Year's Model" Springsteen: "Born To Run" Prince/Artist: "Emancipation" Stevie Wonder: "Innervisions" Joe Jackson: "Jumpin' Jive" (Revived Swing before it was a trend) 3. Cuisine: REAL Mexican (no sour cream or chimichangas, please!) 4. color: Green 5. pets: I have 2 PITA( pain-in-the-ass) cats, Jackson & Lilly 6. TV: NYPD Blue, Simpsons 7. Angel: My Mom Shirley, who is also my favorite Saint 8. quote: "You don't stop playing because you get old, you get old because you stop playing" - George Bernard Shaw 9. recipe: Whatever someone else wants to fix is OK by me 10. Restaurant: in Greenville SC, Alberto's Trattoria. Best Restaurant ever: La Gruta in Mexico City, the entree was so darn good I ordered another full plate much to the amazement of the waiter & my family. 11. movie: Midnight Cowboy, American Graffiti + a jillion others 12. play: The Boys Next Door, Falsettos (I had the privelege of being in both locally) 13. activities/hobbies: Reading, School & Church volunteer, Tennis, Running, Weight Lifting, Listening to Music (duh) 14. Occupation: Mind-Numbing dead-end job in the service industry, aka Procurement of Engineered Equipment for Fluor Daniel And there'll be a test on this at the end of the semester... ;-D Bob M. in SC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:16:35 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Re : "M" (VLJC) In a message dated 9/25/98 8:04:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, IVPAUL42@aol.com writes: << Well, Jason, you really are confused, aren't you? In my experience, people either store their albums alphabetically or sort them by genre (my preference), but you've managed to try both. Incredible. I don't know howm any you have, but I bet if you have a large collection you can't find anything without a long search! >> Dear Paul, I am generally a calm, well mannered sort of person who is able to let things go, but your last two posts- this and the birthday card- has me so incensed I can't think straight. I suggest you take 2 ExLax and call your GI doc in the morning. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:15:38 -0400 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: B-day Cookbook Katie wrote: >I also think that a cookbook would be one great birthday present for the >divine Miss M. Personal and useful at the same time! Here are some ideas >for a great quiche recipe: > >Big Yellow Quiche That's the best IMO, just use *lots* of turmeric. I want dibs on "The Beat of Black Beans", Allison and I came up with this one last night and it was excellent!, recipie to follow as soon as I can get it typed up properly John~ NP 'Sing Joy Spring' - Manhattan Transfer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:27:44 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: bio sem8@cornell.edu aka: SueMc (formerly Susie Tierney) born in: Ft. Mead, MD living in: Trumansburg, NY fav book: Dear Theo fav author: Thomas Merton fav album: Hejira fav cuisine: meat and potatoes fav color: cerulean blue fav pets: goldfish fav angel: Leonardo's Angel of the Rocks fav quote: hip is a herd mentality fav recipe: Mom's pasty (meat&potato pie) fav restaurant: Patrick's Pub, Douglaston, Queens fav movie and play: A Tree Grows in Brooklyn/Long Day's Journey Into Night or Some Like It Hot/The Coconuts fav activities: coffee with the gang after a meeting fav hobbies: deciphering the tuning to Eastern Rain and knitting occupation: practicing unconditional love while knowing I will never get it right p ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:47:19 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore! (NJC) The most recent attacks by Paul (below) jolted me into remembering the following poem by Martin Niemoller, 1892-1984: "They came for the communists, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a communist; They came for the socialists, and I did not speak up because I was not a socialist; They came for the union leaders, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a union leader; They came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak up for me." I cannot sit back and read these insults any longer without speaking my piece. Even though I rarely post in regard to the long threads on this list because of the time factor, I thoroughly enjoy the exchange of diverse opinions on this list. We are a group of intelligent, wonderful people that I mostly greatly admire and respect. However, it's one thing to disagree with someone's opinion, and openly debate an issue, and another to attack someone, solely to be mean-spirited, nasty, or somehow look like they are more "right" than another. To tell Jason that he is "confused" because he chooses to put his CD collection in a certain way is mean-spirited. It seems like this system works just fine for Jason, and, Paul, (and everyone else on this list) I respect your right to catalog your CD's any ol' way you choose. And, Paul, to shoot Katie down for using the word "recipe" instead of "title" is just plain nasty. Katie's post, as usual, was witty, cute, and a lot of fun! Does anyone else care that she used the word "recipe" instead of "title"? Yes, Paul, technically, you are "right" about this choice of words by Katie, but I take the "content" of the posts on this list as a much greater value to me than to worry about someone's EXACT choice of words, or if they are using the English language EXACTLY the way it was meant to be. (As a matter of fact, this last sentence of mine is an incorrectly worded, grammatically incorrect, run-on sentence, but I *just bet* I got my point across!!) Ashara jason.maloney@virgin.net wrote: << I'm one of those sad people who not only alphabetacize their collection, but also group together artists who are linked in some way >> Then IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: <> And...kbarnicle@ensr.com wrote: << Here are some ideas for a great quiche recipe: Quiche and Spark,Quiche at the Window, > And, once again, IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: <> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:51:11 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: NJC but attached to a missive >“Every time Bush talks about trust, it makes chills run up and down my >spine. The very idea that the word ‘trust’ could come out of Mr. Bush’s >mouth after what he’s done to this country and the way he’s trampled on the >truth is a travesty of the American political system.” >“There’s just no such thing as truth when it comes to him (Bush). He just >says whatever sounds good and worries about it after the election.” >—Bill Clinton (1992) Any lieing and deceptions that happened during the Reagan Bush era directly effected national security and were clear abuses of power and were clearly wrong. When we talk about the abuses of Reagan or Bush or Nixon, we are not talking about sex. We are talking real issues of shadow governments, hidden agendas, private wars and lies about their actions that they knew they took. Clinton had sex and didn't volunteer information. If you read the description of sexual relations that he was given and then asked if the relationship he had with Lewinsky fit into that description, you can see that he is telling the truth--according to the parameters that Paula Jones' lawyers gave him. That may be hairsplitting, but that's what the law is and if any of us were in this predicament, we would split the same hairs. I do not condone Clinton in any way because I think it was ridiculous what he was doing. However, it was sex, sex, sex not national security, not privately funded wars, not secret hit squads inside the White House (the Plumbers), not secret negotiations for hostages. Because of how the Republicans in Congress are now playing this, we have begun to lose sight of the law and our system of justice. Maybe there is no trust in Clinton but he should be treated fairly under the system that our Constitution provides. Howard NP: Nancy Griffith, Other Voices, Other Rooms II - -- Howard Motyl Producer, MPI Teleproductions "Anytime you have the opportunity to accomplish something and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:57:34 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Bio: My X Files NJC (I've hesitated submitting this, because Im not interested in seeing this used as fodder for veiled references--the game, re-surfacing these days,taken from my public posts by a pathetic few... you know, After having my feelings hurt a little, I decided, I just don't care. It's more important for me to express my concerns than to hear,repeatedly,of jmdlers (and me)being harassed and threatened (privately and publically)on this list, even if it means reading petty references,as this game continues to be played out going on two years now.) So here you go Marian: Nickname: Jules, Julesie, J, Don Juan's Fertile Daughter Favorite authors: Alice Hoffman, Isabel Alende, Barbara Kingsolver, Toni Morrison, Anna Quindlen, Margaret Atwood, Jane Smiley, Edith Wharton, Lee Smith, Amy Tann, Alice Walker, Jane Austin, Anne Rice, Non-fiction: Deborah Tannen, Naomi Wolf, Cammille Paglia (believe it or not..) Most Favorite Music: Joni Mitchell, Stevie Wonder, Sting, RLee Jones, too many to mention.... Favorite Cuisine: Indian, Tai, authentic Italian. Favorite Recipes: anything new and exotic except for lamb, veal or ...gag me: tripe Favorite Pet: Dogs (our deceased Golden Retreiver, Charlie)and guinea pigs, Cort and Sparky Favorite Angel: I've only seen one: Nicholos Cage (yum)in that Meg Ryan-angel movie Favorite people: besides my family, anyone who can make me laugh Favorite Quote: My own: You can't edit and create at the same time Favorite Movies: This would take days for me, but this is what comes to mind: Many comedies, old Woody Allen, The Way We Were, Many Meryl Streep movies, Cuckoo's Nest; many foreign films. Film eye candy: "Interview With A Vampire" "The Doors" Favorite Actors: Meryl Streep, Jennifer Jason Leigh in "Georgia," Robert DeNiro, Al Pacino, John Malkovich, Kevin Spacey, etc etc I think Christopher Walken is hillarious to watch no matter what film he is in. Favorite activities: going to the movies with my Jon, socializing, music, Jonifests, swimming, drawing, travelling with lots of money, wrestling with my children, drinking wine with friends on my porch till late into the night.... Occupations: Everybody knows Im a mother... but Im also a major shareholder in a high tech start up company, which sounds a whole lot more important than it is.... Prior to starting our company, I've worked in sales and marketing. I have had an occasional editorial and comedy piece published.... Right now, Im no longer working as much with our company,so currently Im on a self-improvement quest when Im not procastinating on the jmdl.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:22:36 -0700 From: bamm_bamm@juno.com (Liz Johnson) Subject: get well soon kitty (NJC) I hope that your kitty will be ok, I will send out a little prayer for her. I love mine to death and know how crushed I would be if the same thing happened to me. Take care, Liz From: "Happy The Man" Subject: RE: Bio, TTT & Kallie (NJC) I am one bummed puppy. I pulled out of my driveway and was about halfway out of my cul-de-sac and felt like a ran over something only to find our newest feline member had run under my tire. The vet looked at her and told me to take her home and if she makes it through the next couple of days then she should be okay. Meanwhile while with the release of TTT coming out and everybody's bio's mentioning their felines I feel like &$#%! Hopefully the little cat will make it and I don't have to break the news to my boys. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:14:31 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Re: Birthday Idea (JC) At 08:19 AM 9/25/98 EDT, Paul wrote: >Excuse me, but these are not recipes. They are titles. There is a BIG >difference. > You don't put out a recipe book by coming up with a bunch of clever titles. >And you don't throw together a recipe book in three weeks. > The JMDL cookbook is a great idea, Paul, Paul, Paulie have a cracker, babe! Yikes, no need to get all testy now, pal. Let's put away our red pens, K? I think we're all havin' a little fun. I seriously doubt that Kate was going to submit all of those recipes. Why does the Jmdl Cookbook have to be taken so seriously? Why can't it be a little less professional and a little more fun? Why can't it be a combo poetry/comedy/whatever cookbook? Let's let it just evolve and reflect our personalities? That's just my own conceptualization of it, anyone else?..... -Julie, who says you can't edit and create at the same time. (But I nominate you, Paul to be the proofreader, red pen and all.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 15:57:39 +-100 From: Hassan Zubairi Subject: TTT review Yo, Coyotes, here is the Guardian's review of TTT. Joni Mitchell Taming The Tiger (Reprise) For her first new album since 1994's Turbulent Indigo, Mitchell offers further refinements of the things she does best. The music and the arrangements are built around her lush, idiosyncratic chords and melodies, while drummer Larry Klein and saxophonist Wayne Shorter are familiar guests from previous Mitchell projects. What distinguishes this set are the gauzy lilting tone of many of the songs (try the hypnotic Man Form Mars), and the inspired use of the pedal steel player Greg Leisz. Leisz's delicate shadings and yearning tonalities add fresh dimensions to the likes of No Apologies or the mock naivete of My Best To You. Joni's lyrics are sometimes too wordily poetical, though perhaps it's hard to discuss gender warfare, the decline of America and the death of pop music any other way. Adam Sweeting (3 STARS) I hope no one sent this before I did. Sorry, but DRUMMER Larry Klein? Much peace and joni JamieJake ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 15:59:57 +-100 From: Hassan Zubairi Subject: TTT review #2 Coyotes Here is the review from The Times in London: Joni Mitchell Taming The Tiger Now 54, Joni Mitchell stands above and beyond the fray she once did so much to influence. "I'm a runaway from the record biz," she sings on the title track of Taming The Tiger, in which she she betrays her weariness with a world that has grown alien to hersophisticated tastes: "Formula music/ girlie guile/ genuine junkfood for juveniles". Removed from such clamorous affairs, the grande dame of the singer songwriter tendency nowadays prefers to harness her lyrics to fluid osng strucures discreetly coaxed from dappled instrumental textures, the most distinctive being the jazzy saxophonist Wayne Shorter. Whill ethe net result errs musically toward the sedate, Mitchell's songs are still, apparently, a rigorous reflection of her feelings, the most revealing being her commentary on the difficulties and joys of conducting a middle-aged love affair: "Time moves swift/ And you know happiness is the best facelift." David Sinclair I picked this up by accident on the tube. A bloke opposite me was reading it and I thought I jsut better check and sure enough, there it was a review. That is syncronicity, I'm sure. I dreamt that I bought TTT and it was in black and white and I was disappointed then I realised that I was dreaming in black and white. So I'll have to wait and see if my dream comes true! much joni Jamiejake ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:18:39 EDT From: Charstarl@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Cookbook I think this is the best idea yet! Is it too late to submit? Char* In a message dated 9/24/98 3:53:31 AM Mountain Daylight Time, jzw@visint.com writes: << Marian, `This could be so much fun. Why not make this idea JM's BD present? or is that what you meant, Terry? We'll call it The JMDL "Sitting On My Groceries" Cookbook. Under the title could be "...Im A Pretty Good Cook." It would be easy to name your favorite recipe(S) after a Joni song or lyric. "For The Noses" could be a title for any garlic dish. Marian, Id love to work with you on this! Each jmdler could have thier own recipe page with a little dossier about themselves in fine print at the bottom of their page. If you don't cook, you can submit a favorite recipe. -Julie Webb, doing my best Mae West, "come out to my kitchen, Ill show you my best recipes" >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:01:59 EDT From: MmeDido@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V3 #373 In a message dated 98-09-25 03:03:54 EDT, you write: << Subject: Re: A new thread:Bios Claire Johnson Favorite book: I am a Camera - c. isherwood Favorite album(s): new york tendaberry/nyro(actually her entire catalogue) for the roses/ mitchell (hmmm..her entire catalogue too), you're mine, I'm yours/betty carter Favorite quisine: Thai Favorite color: well right now I'm into camium yellow medium ..no...red...no green ...no...oh crap...can't decide ;) Favorite pets: spiff the cat ... no...zuzu...oh well BOTH Favorite angel: hmmm don't know, I've never asked their names Favorite quote: ' follow your bliss ' Favorite recipe: stewed peppers Favorite restaurant: little saigon Olympia, WA Favorite movie + play: local hero - I need to go to the theater...can't name a play off of the top o' my head. Favorite activities: painting Favorite hobbies: painting, photgraphy Occupation: painter :) oh and a forester ...hopefully not for long ;) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:10:25 -0400 From: Roger Walker Subject: Indianapolis: Hotel Arrangements Greetings Midwest Joni fans! Here's the latest info on her stop in Indianapolis: October 26th: (Monday) 7:00 p.m.:(Please note date change!) Market Square Arena 300 East Market Street Indianopolis, Indiana Bob Dylan with Joni Mitchell Mail Order Ticket Prices: $47.50 per ticket (Top price only.) Mail Order Limit: 4 tickets per person, per order Seats that are available to Mail Order: To Be Determined. First mail in date: Tuesday, October 6th. Outlet on sale date: Saturday, October 4th 10:00 a.m.- Ticketmaster Seating Chart Capacity: 18,154 I'm going to make hotel reservations this afternoon. I'm reserving a block of 10 rooms for Monday, 10/26/98. My intention is to book rooms at a place that is within walking distance of the arena.. (and it's gotta have a bar!). As soon as they're reserved, I'll let you know the specifics. PLEASE let me know asap if you need a room. This is gonna be fantastic! - -- rog ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:20:25 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Concert mailing lists At 11:00 PM 9/24/98 , Patrick wrote: >i don't have the address handy. les, could you post the whole su.bscribe >thang again? Indeed.... Simply send a message to the appropriate address below, and I will add you to that list. Any messsage sent to the addresses below automatically goes to all people signed up. Detroit@jmdl.com Indianapolis@jmdl.com Minneapolis@jmdl.com Chicago@jmdl.com NewYork@jmdl.com Toronto@jmdl.com Thanks, Les ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:28:19 -0600 From: Brett Code Subject: RE: I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore! (NJC) Ashara and all, I agree. I was happily reading each post on the cookbook (Paul, should that be one word or two?), feeling the fun that people were having, enjoying the build up of excitement as a simple idea, which, as I remember, had been cast out rather casually, evolved into something that most seemed happy with, only to have my feelings of fun and joy (don't worry, Paul, I know that "fun" is not really a feeling - shall I save you the trouble and look it up in a dictionary?) rapidly metamorphosed into twisted revulsion at the patronizing humourlessness (Paul, in Canada, we spell it humour, not humor.) of Paul's response. I thought: "What a fool.", and quickly corrected myself, because I know that fools, in the classic sense, the Willy the Shake sense (Paul, by that, I, like Joni before me, mean William Shakespeare.), actually appreciate humour, understand wit, collaborate and participate in irony. I was left to wonder what kind of person it is that does none of those. Whatever kind it is, Paul must be one. Now, let me get back to the interesting bios, the humourous puns and plays on words that will constitute the jmdl cook book. I love this list. Brett np: Not To Blame - ---------- From: Ashara@aol.com I cannot sit back and read these insults any longer without speaking my piece. Even though I rarely post in regard to the long threads on this list because of the time factor, I thoroughly enjoy the exchange of diverse opinions on this list. We are a group of intelligent, wonderful people that I mostly greatly admire and respect. However, it's one thing to disagree with someone's opinion, and openly debate an issue, and another to attack someone, solely to be mean-spirited, nasty, or somehow look like they are more "right" than another. To tell Jason that he is "confused" because he chooses to put his CD collection in a certain way is mean-spirited. It seems like this system works just fine for Jason, and, Paul, (and everyone else on this list) I respect your right to catalog your CD's any ol' way you choose. And, Paul, to shoot Katie down for using the word "recipe" instead of "title" is just plain nasty. Katie's post, as usual, was witty, cute, and a lot of fun! Does anyone else care that she used the word "recipe" instead of "title"? Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:36:28 -0500 From: Sumiko Keay Subject: TTT reviewed in the Times of London 9/25/98 JONI MITCHELL Taming the Tiger (Reprise 9362-46451 15.99) NOW 54, Joni Mitchell stands above and beyond the fray she once did so much to influence. "I'm a runaway from the record biz" she sings on the title track of Taming the Tiger, in which she betrays her weariness with a world that has grown alien to her sophisticated tastes: "Formula music/Girlie guile/Genuine junkfood for juveniles." Removed from such clamorous affairs, the grand dame of the singer-songwriter tendency nowadays prefers to harness her lyrics to fluid song structures discreetly coaxed from dappled instrumental textures, the most distinctive being the jazzy saxophone phrases of Wayne Shorter. While the net result errs musically towards the sedate, Mitchell's songs are still, apparently, a rigorous reflection of her feelings, the most revealing being her commentary on the difficulties and joys of conducting a middle-aged love affair: "Time moves swift/And you know happiness is the best facelift." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:23:09 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Joni Tix via Dylan site I am coordinating ticket purchases for the Michigan JMDLers and am running into a little snafu. The arena that the concert is supposed to be held at, according to the website, claims they have no concerts scheduled for that day. Ticketmaster also has not heard of any Dylan/Mitchell concert coming up here. Has anyone else had this problem? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:24:37 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: SCS - Sad Cat Story - njc I was sad to hear of adelphot's poor flat cat. I was reminded of a neighbor who had a smililar experience. She opened her garage door from outside with the remote and her cat somehow caught her collar on the lower handle on the inside of the door and asphyxiated quickly as the door elevated. The most interesting part of this story is yet to come and this is very true. That cat was named phoebe. Since they have a nine year old daughter, the neighbor went out that weekend and replaced phoebe with a kitten and named that kitten phoebe II. The daughter reconcilled well to the entire experience, untill about one year later, when it happened again. Almost one year later to the very month, young phoebe II suffered the very same consequences. This time it was the father driving but the same inner handle caught the collar of phoebe II while the door was raising and the asphyxiation of phoebe II immideately followed. That weekend, the family removed the inner handle on all their garage doors and now they have a tabbey cat named tabitha. Phoebe and phoebe II are burried in their back yard. pj not sure what np stands for, but from osmosis, i should do this: np - a big boo hoo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:33:29 -0700 From: Jill Tamada Subject: TTT mention in Oct. Harper's Bazaar "Big-deal releases from Courtney, Joni, PF and Sheryl show that these female performers are pushing their boundaries. Devon Jackson listens in..... "Likewise, Joni Mitchell has been bucking predictability since way back. Taming the Tiger (Reprise), the follow-up to her Grammy-winning Turbulent Indigo, released in 1994, finds Mitchell as pensive as ever, but with an odd air of contentment lurking underneath the longing and regret, and with a jauntier kick in her jazzy heels. She's refreshingly self-effacing; on "Face Lift", her mother tells her "You've seen too many movies, Joni/She said, 'Snap out of it!'". "Stay," in particular, is touching and emotionally pure (and hints at her newfound relationship with the daughter she gave up for adoption long ago). It's vintage Mitchell." - -Jill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:44:58 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Rain in my Future (Georges) NJC So far, so good here in St. Petersburg, but I'm ready for the worst. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:52:02 -0500 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: RE: Cat report NJC Day 1—Cat came out to eat, though it ate very little. Crawled back to its hidden space. Would let me pet it and would talk to me when I called her name. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:56:18 EDT From: RELLIEA@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V3 #373 BIOS: OK, I'll play...... Rellie A Pacific Northwest fav book: On the Road fav albums: Hejira, Blue, Hissing, TI, fav cuisine: A Thanksgiving feast fav color: auburgene fav pet: "jello", my daughters tree frog fav angel: in this world - Charles Kurault fav quotes: 1."I am on a lonely road and I am traveling, traveling, traveling....." 2. "Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on....." fav recipe: dark chocolate anything......especially on a PMS week fav restaurant: Cafe de Amis fav movies: Three Days of the Condor, All the Presidents Men fav play: Much Ado About Nothing fav activities: travel, gym rat, floating in a cool pool in the squinting sun....... fav hobbies: playing guitar, writing music, crossword fanatic occupation: anthropologist, lover of life, mother goddess Rellie A ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:56:48 -0700 From: Mike Friedman Subject: Re: where's my Taming the Tiger ?? Try ordering from CDNow. If you follow the link from Les' JMDL site (www.jmdl.com) you'll get $5 off. At 08:58 AM 9/25/98 -0400, Jjones99@aol.com wrote: >Hi folks. >Yep, I'm one of those who seems to read a whole lot more then write but I >can't begin to say how important the Joni digest is to me... >Anyway,I was wondering if anybody has had the same experience with trying to >order Taming the Tiger via the internet from the CD Zone. >In mid july I read on the digest that one can order the new CD from the CD >zone and would receive it before it came out in the states. >I ordered it on 7-20-98 and haven't heard from the company since. >In their info while ordering it's stated that all CD's will be received within >a month. >Of course that didn't happen so I E-mailed them but haven't heard back. >Have I been duped or or was It all just a joni-digest dream ...thinking that I >would get TTT before the due date?? >Has anyone else sent for it and what happened?? > =================================== Mike Friedman San Francisco, CA USA "I see the blue pools in the squinting sun, and hear the hissing of summer lawns." - --Joni, 1975 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 19:33:12 +0100 From: catman Subject: light relief I am prone to panic attacks so this was very funny: I was in the gym working out hard on the ski thingy when all of a sudden it made a Beep Beep sound and flashed the words: NO PULSE DETECTED Just as I felt the beginnings of a panic I burst out laughing instead! - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:12:26 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: I Have Chicago Tickets ... Just gave a lb. of flesh to Ticketmaster for Section 106 at United Center ... say Wolfbite, or other Chi-Town jmdl folks -- the seats look dead center not too far back on the diagram ... okay seats? Otherwise, looking forward to seeing y'all ... :-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #374 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?