From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #357 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, September 16 1998 Volume 03 : Number 357 JoniFest 1999 is coming! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Birthday computer for Joni (was Birthday map) [M.Russell@iaea.org] my homepage....yay (NJC) [Helen Gill ] TTT and alternative tunings [Howard Wright ] Joni "ahead of her time". [Skin Deep ] Joni Yes and Igor ["John M. Lind" ] Re: Birthday computer for Joni (was Birthday map) ["Ken (Slarty)" ] (NJC)Re: Imput Please..... [heather ] Re: Paul Horn & Joni [Debra Kaufman ] JMDL The CURE! [catman ] Re: finding a joni treasure [Phyliss Ward ] Joni on Chitown radio?? [Steve Dulson ] When are we meeting on Saturday 9/19 and where? [Chilihead2@aol.com] Birthday card [Hassan Zubairi ] Tunings kinda long [Hassan Zubairi ] Current attendees for JoniFest 99 [Mary Grace Valentinsson ] Re: Birthday computer for Joni (was Birthday map) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] JoniFest'99 - some thoughts [Mary Grace Valentinsson ] List addendum [Mary Grace Valentinsson ] Big Boo Hoo [PMcfad@aol.com] Fwd: Virus warning [Denisongs@aol.com] RE: Virus warning (NJC) [Michael Yarbrough ] TTT @ CDNow [Howard Motyl ] Virus warnings and other crap [sherrie.good@chronicle.com] Re: Birthday computer for Joni ["Alan Larson" ] Re: Big Boo Hoo ( & missing JM's "Facelift") [Gellerray@aol.com] Re: Virus warnings and other crap [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Birthday computer for Joni [LRFye@aol.com] Re: JoniFest'99 - some thoughts ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Ensemble keeping jazz great Mingus among us (NJC) [Mark Domyancich wrote: <<> community. I know, I know... Joni says she doesn't <<> have a computer. So, we buy her one. Pre-load the <<> inter-active birthday "card"...plug it in and voila. Maybe <<> while we're at it we throw in an internet connection and <<> subscription to the JMDL? This is my favorite suggestion so far! Let's get Joni a nice computer and an internet subscription! Running a close second in my list of favorites is ric's billboard idea. I think it would be nice to do something really grand like this and both of these ideas are grand. Why does it have to be a problem if someone is unable to contribute even $1? Why can't it still be from all of us? We are a family and we love Joni and we help each other, right? Also I'd like to see whatever we do include pictures of all of us. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:22:42 +1000 (EST) From: Helen Gill Subject: my homepage....yay (NJC) my homepage has a new address which is nicer and easier....SO GO AND VISIT, the homepage hasn't changed, its just as fun don't worry! Enter the Today's Egg competition and win fabulous prizes such as; GLORY! Well, go and see for yourselves and sign the guestbook so I know you've been nice and visited. here 'tis: http://fly.to/helly see that's easy to remember so you can keep coming back again and again! thanky, helly. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:51:54 +0100 (BST) From: Howard Wright Subject: TTT and alternative tunings From: "Kakki" >Ric wrote: > >> ok. ok. here is my question list. this initial lack of a positive response >> is not new to this album, not for me and not for many other joniphiles. i am >> not a musician, so this may be a dumb question (i'm getting to it!) but could >> this have something to do with the alternative tunings? could it be that >> those tunings produce work that is just atypical enough that it requires some >> acclimation before it can really be heard? > >I think you are hitting on the reason why Joni's music tends to not immediately >grab one and takes many listens to "get" it. She not only does it to us with >the alternative tunings, but also, in her later and recent work, with the >layers of unique syncopation and tempo rubato (irregular time) running >throughout each song. No, she certainly does not follow the standard formula. >Some, at a loss for an accurate description, call her musical evolution "jazzy" >because her music has many of those elements, but this is still inaccurate. >She is completely a genre onto herself and a true original. > >Kakki Kakki's right - it's not just Joni's tunings that can sometimes make the music hard to get into straight away, it's her rhythms too. Her vocal phrasing can be quite quirky too, and I find the arrangements sometimes also contribute to an initial "so-so" reaction. Joni has very individual tastes for all these things, so her music stands out because of this. It can take some time to get used to new songs, but often they grow on you slowly, over 5 or 10 playings. (Though I have to say that some of the new stuff - especially "Harlem" and "Lead Balloon" grabbed me straight away, and I still love 'em!) Hasn't Joni herself said something to the effect that her music is designed to be repeated and absorbed slowly over many listenings? Contrast this with the typical pop song which tries to grab your attention with flashy fills and sparkly production, but loses its appeal on about the 3rd listening. Several people have also mentioned that Joni's VG8 sounds take some getting used to - I agree! Many of the new songs have a similar clean electric-guitar type sound - not everyone likes it. I wasn't keen at first, but now I do like it. But I'm hoping that Joni won't put down her acoustic for ever - there are sounds she gets on an acoustic that just can't be played on anything else! A final thought on her rhythms: Joni does have an incredibly strong, jazzy sense of rhythm - but I don't think she uses "rubato" or flexible time much. I've been listening to Tape Tree 7 (thanks Rob!), and the intro to Moon At The Window is a perfect example of how strong her sense of rhythm is. It sounds like she keeps stopping and starting, playing in "free time", but she actually sticks right on the beat for the whole intro, it's just that she uses so many off-beats and jazzy patterns, it's hard to hear that basic "1 2 3 4" until the band comes in, but it's there all along! I think her rhythm is so strong that it's almost unconscious - singing along to off-beat guitar patterns is as natural to her as singing while walking down the street! Howard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 03:29:01 -0700 From: Skin Deep Subject: Joni "ahead of her time". From the very first time I saw her on the Tonight Show '67? I've thought of her as being in her own time. More like a different space, that she takes me to. Although IMHO She is still a folk singer (troubador) at heart in the sence that she sings social commentary and songs of love. She gets you to think and relate, often a little sugar with the medicine. Waltzenfree np- Song About the Midway: Bonnie Raitt (great cover) "And it sometimes mentions mine And I feel like I've been working Overtime. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:04:37 -0400 From: "John M. Lind" Subject: Joni Yes and Igor I wrote: Joni's not the only artist of the "rock era" to reference Stravinsky, most notably Frank Zappa and Yes(who have used the finale of the afore mentioned 'Firebird Suite' as the intro music to their live shows since around 1972) Then Happy' replyed: If you listen to their Relayer album (Yes 1995) you can here almost a direct rip off from some Stravinsky. - ------------------------------------------------------------- Hell, they've cited several times that they were "lifting whole sections of light-classical music"(Bill Bruford) throughout their early albums as well. just listen to "No Oppourtunity..." from "Time & A Word". - ------------------------------------------------------------- Joni is always mentioned in online CD stores that people who like Joni like yes. Go figure. - ------------------------------------------------------------- Hmm, High range lead singer, intricate harmonies, poetic(if not occasionally cryptic) lyrics. Not that hard to see really. John~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:08:43 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Re: Birthday computer for Joni (was Birthday map) This idea, I'm afraid, falls into the same category as the billboard. It's a wonderful idea if we were all rich. I don't see myself donating money to buy a computer for someone who just made more money at one concert than I'm likely to make in 15 years of at my job. If Joni wants a computer she can actually get one for nothing simply writing it off as a business expense against all the taxes she will pay this year. Do I sound cranky this morning? Maybe I should have another coffee before opening up my mail any further. M.Russell@iaea.org wrote: > On Wed, 16 Sep 1998 02:53:12 -0400 "Patricia O'Connor" > wrote: > > <<> community. I know, I know... Joni says she doesn't > <<> have a computer. So, we buy her one. Pre-load the > <<> inter-active birthday "card"...plug it in and voila. Maybe > <<> while we're at it we throw in an internet connection and > <<> subscription to the JMDL? > > This is my favorite suggestion so far! Let's get Joni a nice computer > and an internet subscription! Running a close second in my list of > favorites is ric's billboard idea. I think it would be nice to do > something really grand like this and both of these ideas are grand. Why > does it have to be a problem if someone is unable to contribute even $1? > Why can't it still be from all of us? We are a family and we love Joni > and we help each other, right? Also I'd like to see whatever we do > include pictures of all of us. > > Marian > Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:25:04 -0400 From: Marsha Subject: Re: Birthday map Patricia O'Connor wrote: > If the map was digital rather than printed each "pin" could be a link to > each well-wisher's personal page. This format can do it all, images, video, > sound, the written word. This after all is a cyber-community. I know, I > know... Joni says she doesn't have a computer. So, we buy her one. > Pre-load the inter-active birthday "card"...plug it in and voila. Maybe > while we're at it we throw in an internet connection and subscription to the > JMDL? I volunteer to personally deliver said computer and show her how to turn it on, take photos of her reaction of delight and share them with all members. Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:34:47 -0400 From: heather Subject: (NJC)Re: Imput Please..... At 12:06 AM 9/16/98 -0400, you wrote: > >this is the continuing danger of 'bad science' and the constant hunger for >'scientific' product that the media has. this causes studies like this, >and like grad-student rimm's net-porn fraud, to be a part of the public >discourse and even a part of policy, long before they're in any way >validated. and even after after they've been debunked, as in the rimm case. > Patrick & all - You hit a nerve with me, Patrick. I believe that this "bad science" you mention is a very real disease. One of the main reasons I left my job recently. Some scientists get so so so competitive that they loose sight of what their purpose was. Sometimes I thought that colleagues wanted me to pull the results out of my butt! Never sacrifice your integrity, though. So I quit. Just for info sake - below is a section of The Chemist's Code of Conduct. To the public: Chemists have a professional responsibility to serve the public interest and welfare and to further knowledge of science. Chemists should actively be concerned with the health and welfare of co-workers, consumers, and the community. Public comments on scientific matters should be made with care and precision, without unsubstantiated, exaggerated, or premature statements. I think this transcends all science pursuits. Thanks for letting me get rid of some steam (phfssssssssssssssst) Heather ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:39:23 -0500 From: Debra Kaufman Subject: Re: Paul Horn & Joni Re: the Paul Horn, I'd be happy to add it to a future tape tree. What do I do, email Les about it or what? C'est un bon idee! Like my new signature, apropos or what? DK &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& "O fie, miss, you must not kiss and tell." W. Congreve, Love for Love +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:17:38 +0100 From: catman Subject: JMDL The CURE! When i bought my pc back in July 97 and soon joined the JMDL, I was in a deep depression and had been for a couple of years. I felt life was not worth living, that people were frightening and not to be trusted, that i was a really bad pathetic person. I didn't go out, I watched telly and ate and slept. I believed John was only with me out of pity and that he was bound to leave even after all these years. I believed I was stupid, without any intelligence apart from being able to read and write. I believed I was the cause of other people's problems and bad behaviour. So you could abuse me and not be blamed-I blamed myself. Thru the list I found a way to express myself. Inappropraitely at times. fortunately, many people were kind and supportive rather than abusive although some were. >From recieving some really mean and nasty posts, I learned I was not as bad as I thought-that there were people out there who were totally self absorbed, lacked compassion and were generally mean spirited. After about 6 months my depression lifted. My confusion disappeared. I began to trust those that offered me friendship and a safe person to share myself with. i became more confident. I learned to ignore the mean posts, to realise that their authors had problems of their own and were lashing out at me because it is easier than looking at themselves. Those that wrote me caring non judgemental posts helped me to have a loving caring attitude to myself. those people know who they are. I found out it was okay to be disliked-I wouldn't get killed. Whereas some posts used to trigger a flasshback or panic now those symptoms have grown further and further apart, in fact till recently I went 8 months without one. I learned I cannot change anyone and cannot stop them disliking me or abusing me. I learned that they were the ones missing out on knowing me. I learned to feel sad for them because they were coming from a place of judgement and shame and blame and i didn't have to go there anymore. The love I have recievd from members of the JMDL far outweighs the attacks upon me and my sincerity. The posts from those who deliberately misinterpret and take advantage of my openness no longer matter and i ignore all of them. this has translated into my ordinary life-I am much busier, have found the courage I neeeded to go back into the world and do public speaking again, to enjoy going out, being with people and finally to get another dog.(there is along story about dogs and me but not neccessary to explain here) So far from the Net causing me to be depressed it has been instrumental in lifting me into living. Nothing has done that before. i spend much less time than i used to the pc-I am have become busy. I spend about an hour or so a day instead of most of the day! I found another place to share the shit where we all have had similar lives and are in touch with it so it is safe to share. The JMDL completely revolutionised my life for the better. I will never forget this. I will always be grateful for the loving friends I have made and, strangely, for the meanspirited ones who taught me I could have been a lot worse. with love colin - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:27:28 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: finding a joni treasure Yep - I've had it since it came out. Great stuff! Congradulations on the find Debra Kaufman wrote: > I found an album, Visions, by Paul Horn, the wonderful flute player who > performed in the Taj Mahal in the early 70s. He covers two Joni tunes, Blue > and Chelsea Morning. On Blue, Joni plays piano and sings a kind of scat > version of the lyrics while Horn plays flute. What a find! Anybody know it? > DK > > &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& > "Ring the bells that still can ring. > Forget your perfect offering. > There is a crack, a crack in everything: > that's how the light gets in." > Leonard Cohen > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:03:42 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Joni on Chitown radio?? Howard Motyl asked: >Any Chicagoans know if new Joni, TTT Joni is on a Chicago radio >playlist? Well, I'm not a Chicagoan (though I love them Cubbies!) but here's what Rich Warren has played on WFMT's The Midnight Special, in the last couple of months: (Rich is at folk@midnightspecial.org) Night In The City Chinese Cafe'/ Unchained Melody California Nathan La Franeer The Last Time I Saw Richard A Case Of You Sex Kills Songs To Aging Children Come Here's To You **** TTT *** Both Sides Now The Circle Game I sent my whole Joni airplay list to Les, and I'm leaving it up to him to decide whether or not to post it to the list. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:12:54 EDT From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: When are we meeting on Saturday 9/19 and where? Yo' 'Sup for Saturday? Chilin' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:44:52 +-100 From: Hassan Zubairi Subject: Birthday card The album with a map fo the worl as a front cover seems to be the best thing. The map, instead if pins should have markers with the list of all the names of people connecting them to where they live. e.g. England, with a marker in London, and that marker, connected to a name group: Jamie Zubairi(JamieJake), AzeemAK, Catman Colin etc,eetc. Whoever sent the Maya Angelou poem, blessings to you. It's beautiful. I have sent it to my ex-girlfirend in New York(not a Joni fan) to empower her. Much Joni to all of you JamieJake ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:30:57 +-100 From: Hassan Zubairi Subject: Tunings kinda long Dear Listas Someone brought up the subject that Joni's tunings are a little hard to listen to first time round and that they take a whole lotta listening to get used to. Some are, of course easier than others and some play easier than others. When I first heard Night Ride Home the initial arpeggio was so distinctive and strong. Almost he same tuning (but different key) for Sunny Sunday and the opening arpeggio is weaker and much more dependent on the rhthym of the rest of the right hand than it being plucked, like NRH. However, I have a recording of Joni on video playing Sunny Sunday onstage in London, she starts it off with a little more kick and it was then that the music made a little more impression. I play this version now. When I played this song for my friends at drama school (we were asked to do a little show and tell for the director of the show we were improvising) and everyone thought I couldn't play the guitar properly (all except one girl whose dad is a classical musician) and she was bowled over by what I was doing both physically doing (that over-the-neck half barre thing as well as the chordal shapes and structure of the songs). Needless to say I was criticised by my year who then decided to parody me in the cabaret that we have every term. This guy was going to dress up in my usual clothes and bring on an electric (if you please) guitar and play really badly. I got wind of this as the organiser was a friend of mine, so I decided to bring my own acoustic and wait in the wings. I told this guy what I was going to do and he was really apologetic and didn't mean any harm blah di blah. He gave me the option to veto his 'performance'. I said no, do it anyway, but I'll come up behind you like it wasn't planned. So in the wings I was there watch this guy not really mention who I was, just dressed like me in dungarees and skinny tee shirt and cap, say things like, 'there's this guy in our year who doesn't play the guitar and only sings songs by Joni effing Mitchell and they're the saddest ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:08:18 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: Current attendees for JoniFest 99 To date, this is who I have as attending the '99 Fest in CO: To date, this is the current listing of potential attendees. Bob Muller Marian Russell Brett Code Karen McDermott Mark/Travis John Lind Jody Johnson Patrick Leader Ashara Donald Fluke Bob Hanna Jody Johnson Brain Gross Bob Muller Marian Russell Brett Code Karen McDermott Mark/Travis John Lind Jody Johnson Patrick Leader Ashara Donald Fluke Bob Hanna Jody Johnson Brain Gross MG Valentinsson Les Irvin Leslie and Steve Mixon That Happy Man Wally B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:31:39 -0700 From: Jill Tamada Subject: Re: Birthday computer for Joni (was Birthday map) Hi all, My billboard idea was tongue and cheek. I promise never to attempt humor again in a post. I am however hoping that Reprise has Joni on the Billboard near Tower records on Sunset during the TTT debut week. If they do, I'll be taking a picture and sending it to Les. I did want to mention something about the recent discussions on what Joni was paid for the Garden concert. Yes, $450,000 is a lot of money. However, out of that money comes a hefty tax fee, 15% of gross to Managers, 10% of gross to agents and I am guessing (though I hope I'm wrong) that she also had to pay her band. If that is the case, the net amount will be significantly less than the 450K. All the best, Jill Ken (Slarty) wrote: > > This idea, I'm afraid, falls into the same category as the billboard. It's a > wonderful idea if we were all rich. > I don't see myself donating money to buy a computer for someone who just > made more money at one concert than I'm likely to make in 15 years of at my > job. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:30:28 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: I second that motion! Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:16:22 -0400 From: JJM > Sue Mac once said something like "I never felt like I could play the > guitar very well until I started using Joni's tunings and playing her > songs. It's like someone waved a magic wand and I could play really > beautifully." ABSOLUTELY!! That's exactly what happened to me a few years ago and I haven't been the same since. Marian, thanks for wording that so wonderfully. And let's not forget your contribution to web guitaristists!! juliette. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:44:37 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Birthday computer for Joni (was Birthday map) In a message dated 9/16/98 3:54:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, M.Russell@iaea.org writes: << Let's get Joni a nice computer and an internet subscription! >> Let's also chain her to a desk for several hours and MAKE her read this boring stuff we write about her, too, dammit! Paul I (hoping I'm missing the facetiousness of the buy her a computer plan) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:47:52 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: JoniFest'99 - some thoughts As a planning member of this shindig, here are a few of my views on the whole deal. I realize that I am leaving out comments to J's very good points regarding planning and just what is meant by "lots of Joni things to do." Hopefully, since time is ticking away, people will get more excited and more input will pour in, committees will firm up and we will buid it and they will come. Julie asked if only "card carrying members" will be invited and questioned whether we wanted the "zoo factor" of JM's fandom. To the best of my knowledge, Jonifest '99 is advertised on the jmdl website and at the beginning of every jmdl digest. I don't foresee taking out a billboard or full page ad in any publication, (yet!), but the invitation is out there in the public domain. At this point, I don't think it is relevant to curtail attendance to list members only. How do you define a list member anyway? For the past few months, I've regularly deleted each and every digest. My participation has been minimal and yet I consider the jmdl to be my Internet home. I also have friends who don't care for the list, but regularly visit the website. Several of them are interested in attending and I think that they should. The restriction to jmdl members only at Julie's gathering made perfect sense. She was taking an enormous leap to opening her private residence to strangers. JoniFest '99 will be a bit different - a convention in the making. One that we hope will grow and continue through the years. With that in mind, I think that we have to accept the inclusion of the "zoo factor." Personally, I see more harm than good in invitation restrictions and I am in favor of: if you can pony up the dough, we'll see you there. As for families, all I know is, I'm dragging mine along with me. As Les pointed out, the attraction of the YMCA site was that one could do Joni things or not. Hike, nap, swim - there will be more to do. Craig also has much experience in kid things. I've previously offered my 17 year old daughter as a potential helper in this endeavor. She's coming along anyway, may as well put her to work. Now that the clock is ticking, it's time to get the ideas rolling in and plans firmed up. It's time for professional planners in our midst to speak up and serve. I view the JoniFest '99 as a fabulous opportunity to really connect as a viable and magical community and to push the jmdl into its next growth phase. Thanks for your time, MG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:58:57 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: one more expected attendee I forgot the mention that I absolutely expect my dear friend Colin to haul his butt across the pond to attend JoniFest '99. No excuses. (;-D MG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:01:22 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: Birthday computer for Joni (was Birthday map) In a message dated 98-09-16 12:48:02 EDT, IVPAUL42@aol.com writes: << Let's also chain her to a desk for several hours and MAKE her read this boring stuff we write about her, too, dammit! Paul I >> do you have a low blood sugar problem mr. ives? it may be time for you to have a nice big glass of orange juice... ric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:01:23 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: Birthday computer for Joni (was Birthday map) In a message dated 98-09-16 12:48:02 EDT, IVPAUL42@aol.com writes: << Let's also chain her to a desk for several hours and MAKE her read this boring stuff we write about her, too, dammit! Paul I >> do you have a low blood sugar problem mr. ives? it may be time for you to have a nice big glass of orange juice... ric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:03:51 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Birthday computer for Joni (was Birthday map) In a message dated 9/16/98 12:33:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jill@opticalres.com writes: << I did want to mention something about the recent discussions on what Joni was paid for the Garden concert. Yes, $450,000 is a lot of money. However, out of that money comes a hefty tax fee, 15% of gross to Managers, 10% of gross to agents and I am guessing (though I hope I'm wrong) that she also had to pay her band. If that is the case, the net amount will be significantly less than the 450K. >> Pardon me, Jill, but so what? Out of what Ken makes in the next 10 years, he will have to pay hefty taxes, 30% of gross for his mortgage, 20% of gross for groceries and I am guessing (though I hope I am wrong) that he still will have to pay for college for his band of children. In that case, it is still a preposterous proposal that we buy Joni a computer. Let's hear no more about that on the list, please. I personally think it is embarrassing to even discuss. Anyone who wants to undertake that project individually should contact Wally directly. Paul I (with fire extinguisher at the ready for the expected flames) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:24:06 -0400 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: Birthday computer for Joni (was Birthday map) Paul wrote: <<>> Dare I say, me too? If you want one sure-fire way to convince Joni that we're not just avid fans but slightly psycho stalker-types, then buy her a computer and ask her to join us on-line. I am getting a little confused between the serious suggestions and the jokes. I have a feeling that I'm not alone. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:32:15 -0700 From: Jill Tamada Subject: Re: Birthday computer for Joni (was Birthday map) Paul, I was not addressing the idea of buying a computer for Joni for her birthday. Only that her "take home pay" for the "Garden" may be significantly less than what many on the list perceive. I personally am not in favor of the JMDL birthday gift being a computer. As much as I hate to admit it at this moment, I like your suggestion the best. However, I would never be so rude as to suggest someone elses ideas are preposterous or embarrassing. - -Jill > Pardon me, Jill, but so what? > Out of what Ken makes in the next 10 years, he will have to pay hefty taxes, > 30% of gross for his mortgage, 20% of gross for groceries and I am guessing > (though I hope I am wrong) that he still will have to pay for college for his > band of children. In that case, it is still a preposterous proposal that we > buy Joni a computer. > Let's hear no more about that on the list, please. I personally think it is > embarrassing to even discuss. Anyone who wants to undertake that project > individually should contact Wally directly. > Paul I > (with fire extinguisher at the ready for the expected flames) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:44:36 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: the attendees keep rolling in Let's have a round of applause for Michael Yarbrough who has made the commitment to join us out in the land of the fallen sponge cake. MG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:44:47 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: one more expected attendee Just as long as you are prepared to deal with a jibbering wreck from the flying! Mary Grace Valentinsson wrote: > I forgot the mention that I absolutely expect my dear friend Colin to haul > his butt across the pond to attend JoniFest '99. > > No excuses. > > (;-D > > MG - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:53:56 -0700 From: Mary Grace Valentinsson Subject: List addendum I was so excited at how many people were actually coming that I cut and paste the list twice. So, to the best of my knowledge, only ONE Mark/Travis, only ONE Brian Gross, only ONE...well you get the picture. MG (reminding herself to edit, edit, edit.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:26:49 EDT From: PMcfad@aol.com Subject: Big Boo Hoo I've not yet heard the song yet or the context, but I've read enough to know people are not liking this line on TTT with its big boo hoo. It reminds me of another line in Blue Motel Room, hanging on your boom boom pachyderm (emphasis on the booms) well, you tell those girls you've got german measles honey tell them you've got germs This context doesn't look all that much more sophisticated and it sounds fine to my ears. Could the big boo hoo just be a playful Joni? Again, I've not heard the song. pj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:28:43 EDT From: Denisongs@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Virus warning This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_905970523_boundary Content-ID: <0_905970523@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII - --part0_905970523_boundary Content-ID: <0_905970523@inet_out.mail.vertexinc.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (rly-zc04.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.4]) by air-zc03.mail.aol.com (v49.1) with SMTP; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:02:16 -0400 Received: from vertexinc.com (vertexinc.com [146.145.252.1]) by rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id LAA06088 for ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [10.20.1.100] by vertexinc.com via smtpd (for rly-zc04.mx.aol.com [198.81.16.68]) with SMTP; 16 Sep 1998 15:04:02 UT Received: from ccMail by iegate.vertexinc.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.12 Enterprise) id 0002F930; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:01:26 -0400 Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:59:41 -0400 Message-ID: <0002F930.3314@vertexinc.com> From: Kolleen_Bowers@vertexinc.com (Kolleen Bowers) To: Denisongs@aol.com, tford@mail.valueinter.net Subject: Virus warning Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit - -------------Forwarded Message----------------- From: INTERNET:abaker@MSMAIL.CONDENAST.CO.UK, INTERNET:abaker@MSMAIL.CONDENAST.CO.UK To: , atkinsmc Date: 16/09/98 12:31 RE: Virus warning Sender: abaker@MSMAIL.CONDENAST.CO.UK Received: from MSMAIL (msmail.condenast.co.uk [195.33.23.13]) by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.14) with SMTP id HAA19500; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:29:57 -0400 (EDT) From: abaker@MSMAIL.CONDENAST.CO.UK Message-Id: Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:20:11 +0000 To: atkinsmc@compuserve.com Subject: Virus warning MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: TFS Gateway /310000000/310103081/310103051/310260553/ From: janineeverett@frazer-jones.co. Sent: 16 September 1998 11:42 To: a.syratt@macmillan.co.uk; annabel@dra.co.uk; Rebecca_deBoehmler@ipc.co.uk; CHatcher@stephenraby.co.uk; Ellie_Smith@europe.mccann.com; emma_nathan@gre-group.e-mail.c; f.gregory@icrf.icnet.uk; gordon.lott@clericalmedical.co; stotth@patrol.i-way.co.uk; jallen@linklaters.com; joe.godfrey@knightfrank.co.uk; Jonathan_C._Johnstone@LNOTES3.; z9000237@zoo.co.uk; jpaine@linklaters.com; ludo.mackenzie@jlw.co.uk; LUCY REEDMAN; sales@davidlloydleisure.co.uk; shellarn@ms.com; sasha.focardi@hwgroup.com; toni.lesurf@ft.com; wtrippett@walker-hamill.co.uk Subject: FW: IMPORTANT VIRUS WARNING FYI [[ ENVELOPE.TXT : 2865 in ENVELOPE.TXT ]] Subject: IMPORTANT VIRUS WARNING FYI > > This has just arrived across the Internet. Please read it!!! > > VIRUS WARNING!! VIRUS WARNING!! > Someone is sending out a very desirable screen-saver, the Budweiser > Frogs - BUDDYLST.ZIP. If you download it, you will lose everything!!! > Your hard drive will crash and someone from the internet will get your > screen name and password! > > DO NOT DOWNLOAD THIS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!! IT JUST WENT INTO > CIRCULATION YESTERDAY, AS FAR AS WE KNOW. PLEASE DISTRIBUTE/INFORM > THIS MESSAGE. > > This is a new, very malicious virus and not many people know about it. > This information was announced yesterday morning from Microsoft. > Please share it with everyone that might access the internet. Once > again, pass this along to EVERYONE in your address book so that this > may be stopped. Also do not open or even look at any mail that says > "RETURNED OR UNABLE TO DELIVER". This virus will attach itself to your > computer components and render them useless. Immediately delete mail > items that say this. AOL has said that this is a very dangerous virus > and that there is NO remedy for it at this time. Please practice > cautionary measures and forward this to all your on-line friends ASAP. Received: from firewall.vertexinc.com (10.0.0.2) by iegate.vertexinc.com with SMTP (IMA Internet Exchange 2.12 Enterprise) id 0002F8C1; Wed, 16 Sep 98 09:44:42 - -0400 Received: from hil-img-8.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.138]) by firewall.vertexinc.com via smtpd (for [10.20.1.100]) with SMTP; 16 Sep 1998 13:46:13 UT Received: (from root@localhost) by hil-img-8.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.14) id JAA27569; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:44:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:43:24 -0400 From: Michael Crofton-Atkins Subject: Virus warning Sender: Michael Crofton-Atkins To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com Message-ID: <199809160944_MC2-59A6-6B06@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline - --part0_905970523_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:52:49 -0400 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: Virus warning (NJC) A supposed virus warning was sent to the list. It was a hoax. It read, in part: <<>> Microsoft may be in the business of making themselves so indispensable that your electric toothbrush now runs on a Win 98 platform, but they are not in the business of disseminating information about viruses. The hoaxster includes lines like this to give him/herself undeserved credibility. <<>> This is a common technique used to a) scare you and b) spread the hoax far enough that they can get a fraternity-sized laugh out of it. <<>> This is ridiculous for several reasons. First of all, the phrase in question is a very common subject heading for routine undeliverable mail. Mentioning this phrase ensures that an unwitting user will both get very scared, and feel the hoax is true because they got their own living copy of the virus. Furthermore, emails are nothing more than text files. Opening an email can do absolutely nothing, repeat, nothing, to your computer. Only executable files can contain viruses. <<>> See the first paragraph. When you get a virus warning, please please please check them out with your systems administrator or internet services provider before spreading false notices. Not only is it a waste of time, but it leads to a "Crying Wolf" situation that will be very unfortunate in the event of a real virus. Please get some good virus scan software, educate yourself about what a virus can and cannot do, and acquaint yourself with computing professionals who can advise you about these situations. - --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:47:40 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: TTT @ CDNow I'm always running behind the times . . . so this info may already be out there . . . CDNow is taking preorders for TTT. Here is their search site: http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=1236466756/pagename=/RP/CDN/FIND/popsearch.html Type in the title and you will see the cover and the price--nice at $12.99. I still want to go to a store and buy it though. Does anyone know anything about the packaging? Is the first wave coming out sans jewel box like she has been doing? Howard http://www.mpimedia.com "Anytime you have the opportunity to accomplish something and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:52:14 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: Virus warnings and other crap PLEASE DON'T SEND THIS SHIT TO THE JONI LIST! (refering to a virus warning sent in) Please label any and all messages with No Joni Content with 'NJC' in the subject head. I've been on this list a long time. Recently, there are many more notes being sent to the list that would better be sent personally, privately, amongst yourselves. Think before you send. Do we all really need to know what Jane is saying to Dick? Also, the amount of "me too" letters has increased of late. I know there are waves of little Joni content here, followed by some wonderful Joni content, which is why I stay. I personally think Joni knows we are here, appreciates it, but lives fine without us. She will have a wonderful birthday if she does or does not hear from us. She has made out pretty good for herself long before we were here. I am not into self-willing myself into anyones life. If I enter into someone's life, then I believe that is meant to be. Trying to 'get my foot in the door' by buying someone an expensive gift, it is cheap. Say a prayer for her and her family on her birthday, or any day, and give her space, privacy. She is a private person, so privacy would be an excellent gift. sherrie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:48:13 -0700 From: "Alan Larson" Subject: Re: Birthday computer for Joni I happen to agree with you, Michael. It would be one thing if that type of magnanimous gesture were to magically persuade her that onlist discussions and such were the way to spend her time, and a person could overlook the expense and the irony of buying it for someone with so much. But ultimately I don't think that would change her mind, and I would hate to think of a nice Compaq Presario (or whatever) just sitting in a corner collecting dust. Some artists enjoy chatting with fans online and joining in on discussions. Others just don't. I think we have to accept that. However, it is a nice thought in some ways, and I don't think anyone should be telling adults on this forum what should and shouldn't be discussed, Mr. Ives. alan@ames.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:52:10 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: Big Boo Hoo ( & missing JM's "Facelift") PMcfad wrote: Could the big boo hoo just be a playful Joni? Again, I've not heard the song... The song is a very sad address to a lost love--i won't even say who. And so the context is in fact one of grieving, quite sad. Even still, i so agree with you on this point. it seems--despite the song's sobriety--to be a kind of a wink-wink line rather than a schmaltzy gaffe, to my ears. Personally, I have a much bigger problem with "...nice kitty kitty..." from the title song itself. So far, for me, that line has sent me directly to Wince City! And o how fondly do i remember the days when the album was going to be called "Facelift." I thought that was lovely. "Taming the Tiger"--though thematically i know it's important and crucial for the Artist at this point in her life (or was when composed)--has so far (always so far--especially before the damn thing is released!) hung a little tiredly about my ear. And, of course, I accept the artist's "right"--ha!--to write whatever she damn well pleases, reserving my own right to "criticize"--as an admirer, as a listener, as an American!. (go Esther--was it?--at Jane!!). Just as JM herself is quite vocal (from, it is true enough, a quite different place in music history) about her own likes and dislikes! All that said, I'm getting a little attached to TTT--don't it always seem to go (once you express an opinion it's gone!). Raymond--who is proud to be sort of learning some "list techniques"--however elementary. NP: the whirr of the fan (inside) & the whoosh of the cars (out). walls and a window in between. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:56:43 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Virus warnings and other crap Right on, Sherrie! This would have plenty of class in itself. The best idea yet, imo! (Sorry about the 'me too' reply-just showing my enthusiasm) NP-All I want >Say a prayer for her and her family on her birthday, or any day, and give >her space, privacy. She is a private person, so privacy would be an >excellent gift. ______________________________________________ ____ | | O=|o\/o|=O Mark Domyancich O=|o\/o|=O O=|o\/o|=O Harpua@revealed.net | || | \||/ www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark |==| |__| home.revealed.net/Harpua |__| |__| ______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:19:27 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Birthday computer for Joni Alan Larson wrote: > It would be one thing if that type of magnanimous gesture were to magically persuade her that onlist discussions and such were the way to spend her time Suppose we got Joni a computer and she became as "addicted" to the Internet as the rest of us? So much for touring or new music ... OTOH, Joni's next album might be a bunch of "surfer" tunes ... Either thought is rather unsettling ... Lori in San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:26:01 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Re: JoniFest'99 - some thoughts At 09:47 AM 9/16/98 -0700, MgV wrote: >I also have friends who don't care for the list, but regularly visit the >website. Several of them are interested in attending and I think that they >should. Why would I care if a friend of yours, MG, would want to attend....well ok, unless that person(s) is a high risk sex offender, potential thief, a violent drunk, a child pornographer, and the list can go on ....a Celine Dion fan etc etc My main concern **to the list** was based on the capacity of the meeting room space which is going to function as our jam session/dance floor. Not identifying myself or our group, I phoned the YMCA site to get information for may family to enquire about the distance between the meeting rooms and the bedrooms. The reservationist volunteered that there are noise/time restrictions for the meetingrooms because of the proximity to the Inn bedrooms. The only way there are **no** meetingroom time/noise restrictions is when the group rents out the entire Inn. If renting out all the rooms of the entire Inn is not possible for the group----the group should then enquire about renting out the rollerskating rink. So my question naturally is what is the people-capacity of the particular meeting room you reserved? Will there be enough room for dancing etc? Is the rollerink on the grounds? Since the YMCA does not allow alcohol on the grounds, but it is allowed to be brought into of the meeting room---the YMCA will not have people spilling out into the halls because of lack of space. We should also find out if alcohol is allowed in the skating rink and put down money to reserve it immediately if the plan is to open the Fest up to Joni Mitchell fans and not just the jmdl. (Not that Im into alcohol so much, but lots of people seem to enjoy it for some reason.... ;~D >With that in mind, I think that we have to accept the inclusion of the "zoo >factor." Personally, I see more harm than good in invitation restrictions >and I am in favor of: if you can pony up the dough, we'll see you there. I don't think anyone wants to be restrictive. It's a matter of thinking about what kind of Jonifest we want to have. What Ashara and I had was a Jonifest for the JMDL community to finally meet each other face to face for the first time and party the night away. We had come to know each other through posts and there was something very uniquely intimate in that experience. What I had imagined Colorado to be was opportunity to have a similar kind of cozy get together which would enable the West Jmdlers all be under the same roof, jammin away with the East jmdlers. I saw Colorado as a National **Jmdl** Fest. A Joni Convention will be fun too, no doubt, but it will more similar to going to a Joni Mitchell Concert-Cruise in some respects. I mean, you'll be meeting and partying with people you probaly will never meet/reed again. And it will be more difficult to fish out and connect with people we've come to read on the list.... I guess I have made my point for what I prefer. And Im only one voice. What can I say, I really love the people on the list and that's what inspires me to want to come to Colorado. I can't wait to meet people like Mark of Mark and Travis and Les and Kay and Leslie--- heck, Id like to see Meri again...etc. Merely meeting jm fans who have never even posted, who I don't have a point of reference for-- I don't know....just doesn't mean that much to me. But what I think you are really organizing here is a Joni Mitchell Convention, kinda like an Elvis convention....and now that Im writing this-----I am remembering that the "dream" for some...was that if we plan the biggest Joni Jam ever, maybe she will agree to perform or show up. But you wrote: >I don't foresee taking >out a billboard or full page ad in any publication, (yet!), but the invitation is >out there in the public domain. ' >JoniFest '99 will be a bit different - a convention >in the making. One that we hope will grow and continue through the >years. Well then, if that's your plan: the gathering being thought of as a Joni Mitchell Convention in the making.....then I have to say, more than ever, it's time to get those PR packets in the mail. Something billed as a convention will do more pr harm than good, if only 100 fans and family members show up. Who knows, could be a super-charged way to kick off the debut of TTT. -JulieZW ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:28:34 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Ensemble keeping jazz great Mingus among us (NJC) A great Minus website is http://www.mingusmingusmingus.com/index.html . Ensemble keeping jazz great Mingus among us Web posted on: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 4:39:23 PM From Correspondent Mark Scheerer NEW YORK (CNN) -- Every Thursday night, Sue Mingus puts the Mingus Big Band through its paces at New York's Fez Under Time Cafe. They might start off with a short piece to warm up, like "Boogie Stomp Shuffle," or maybe it'll be a cut from their latest album, like "Tijuana Gift Shop." This week, in addition to their regular Thursday gig, the band will be jetsetting across the country to the Monterey Jazz Festival, which unfolds over this weekend in northern California. The ensemble's performance is likely to be one of the festival's highlights. Since 1991, this 14-piece band created by the widow of the great jazz bassist and composer Charles Mingus, who died in 1979, has been keeping his legacy alive. Randy Brecker is just one of the better-known players. "The number of musicians that play has grown into a pool now of over 150 musicians," Sue Mingus explains. "So we now have six or seven or eight musicians or more on each instrument that have learned this quite complex music." "The Mingus Big Band workshop was something that Charles himself coined 40 years ago, because his music was difficult, there was never enough time to rehearse the musicians or enough money," she says. "And Charles called it a workshop so people could come and listen to music and not ask for their money back." Recognized by many music critics as the greatest jazz composer in history, Charles Mingus died at the age of 56 after enduring a rare nerve disease that put him in a wheelchair. After his death, his wife and fellow musicians discovered hundreds of unperformed compositions in a trunk, and she set about showcasing them and Mingus' more familiar works with several ensembles, including the Mingus Big Band. Two 'Meditations' to be performed Among the pieces the ensemble plans to perform Friday in Monterey are a 1964 composition, "Meditations on Integration," inspired by the civil rights Freedom Riders, and another called "Meditations on a Pair of Wire-Cutters." Mingus played them at Monterey himself, 45 years ago. "After that, we started a record company together called Charles Mingus Enterprises," his widow says, "and our first record release was 'Mingus at Monterey.'" Visitors to the apartment where he lived in the months before his death can see his handwritten compositions. "Charles always wanted a big band," his widow recalls. "Unfortunately, the economics and the time was such that he really didn't have the opportunity to have a big band regularly. If he could have written and composed for a band like that, week after week, it would have been a dream." During his lifetime, such a dream was impossible to fulfill. But now the big band that bears his name, seven years on, continues its mission to keep Mingus among us. ______________________________________________ ____ | | O=|o\/o|=O Mark Domyancich O=|o\/o|=O O=|o\/o|=O Harpua@revealed.net | || | \||/ www.jmdl.com/guitar/mark |==| |__| home.revealed.net/Harpua |__| |__| ______________________________________________ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #357 ************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?