From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #338 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, September 4 1998 Volume 03 : Number 338 The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Moving thru madness [Don Sloan ] Buying TTT [Hassan Zubairi ] RE: Moving thru madness ["Deb Messling" ] Joni mention on PBS [Sue ] Wally & Poems and Lyrics [mann@chicagonet.net] Man From Mars ["Reuben Bell3" ] Re: Man From Mars [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Man From Mars [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni mention on PBS ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Re: Joni mention on PBS [Marsha ] Dulson's usual catch-up ramblings....(NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: Clouds-Sadie [Susan McNamara ] TT review in Jane [Rachel Kramer Bussel ] $5 off from Ticketmaster [Jim Ochsenreiter ] NJC - Northampton Listings [heather ] Re: TT review in Jane ["Deb Messling" ] Day Trip Home(JC!) [catman ] Re: TT review in Jane [Scott Price ] Re: Moving thru madness [sherrie.good@chronicle.com] Re: TT review in Jane [Craig Harris ] Re: TT review in Jane [DKasc13293@aol.com] Re: TT review in Jane ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: Moving thru madness [catman ] Re: TT review in Jane [catman ] Joni's Big Boo-Boo ["Deb Messling" ] Re: TT review in Jane [sherrie.good@chronicle.com] JANE email addy [Rachel Kramer Bussel ] Re: TT review in Jane ["Don Rowe" ] Joni on MSNBC ["Don Rowe" ] Re: TTT promotion [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Doing a show. NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] Joni mention article [Jerry Notaro ] from Billboard [Jerry Notaro ] Re: TT review in Jane [Mark Domyancich ] Re alternate tunings (NJC) [Gertus@aol.com] Re alternate tunings (NJC) [Gertus@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:33:11 -0700 From: Don Sloan Subject: RE: Moving thru madness JJM > Hi everyone...I enjoy reading everyone's comments and I only write > occassionally, but I'm compelled to share my madness. My madness is > this: I'm finding myself completely in some kind of warp where all I can > tolerate is Joni Mitchell. I can't turn on the radio or listen to any > of my other music because it all sounds horribly trite to me. The only > other artist that stands a chance and gets about 1 day of play is Tori > Amos. Aside from that, I'm drowning in Joniness. HELP!! Has anyone > else ever gone through this??? I'm going on 3 weeks of it now. Thanks > for your comments. Maybe it's something in the air! Tonight after work, during my 75 minute commute, I repeatedly scanned thru 12 radio stations, hoping to find someone good to sing me home. But everything on the air was absolutely irritating! I reached for my small handful of no-Joni tapes and stuck them in the player one after the other. Nothing grabbed me. Then I remembered I had recorded Coyote at the end of the latest Van The Man tape.... I found the tune, punched the *replay* button and listened to that one song AT LEAST 15 times in a row!!! Don..... feeling better after a big dose of Joni ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:21:30 +-100 From: Hassan Zubairi Subject: Buying TTT Dear friends and family I know that we're all excited to buy TTT this month (I still can't believe it!!!) but there are dangers involved in buying up the entire stock from the one store. Mainly that Joini (Australian pron, not a typo, honest,heheheh) GETS BARRED from participating in the SoundScan (or should that be Scam) system and that her stock doesn't get considered for the count. So the solution is: buying it from different stores all over your town/city/county/state. A bit extreme but I guess I'm lucky to live in London and work off Oxford Street where there are 2 HMVs and 2 Virgins (I feel a joke coming on, but I can't think of it at the mo), 1 Tower in Piccadilly, a coupla Our Prices (yeah our price is really expensive) and now there's a Borders, a shop I haven't been in yet. Of course, you could go into the same shop at different times of the day and week. Hang on a minoota. I've just come up with an antithesis: Elton John's single for Diana. On the first day of sale these foreigners (like I'm not one myself) were buying up stacks and stacks of the cds and it stayed at Number 1 for weeks. What is the official line here on buying up loads of stock? Wally? Anyone? Anyone? Last night watching Never Mind The Buzzcocks on BBC2 (it's a music quiz show where they get popular British music/comedy celebs to be guests on the show and it's a halfhour of light ribbing (as opposed to any other heavier texture;-)) among the guests and host. Anyway, here comes the JC: In the quickfire 'name the second line' round, the question was 'They paved paradise...' And everybody on the team said 'And put up a parking lot' and Mark Lamarr the host said, 'Yes, of course from "Big Yellow Taxi" by Joni Mitchell.' Needless to say I slept happy last night. Trying to learn my lines. Anyway, something to ponder about (the TTT buying, I mean, not silly quiz shows. Much Joni (spread the word) JamieJake There: There is my ship Finally come in.- rlj ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 07:51:48 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: RE: Moving thru madness Genuine junk food for juveniles, eh? > I repeatedly scanned thru 12 radio stations, hoping to > find someone good to sing me home. But everything on the air was > absolutely irritating! Deb has a prediction. (Critics being distressingly predictable). Every good review of the new album will say something along the lines of "these songs are more than a one-night stand" or "these songs are more nourishing than junk food" or something. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:16:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Subject: Joni mention on PBS Last night while watching Charlie Rose interview Natalie Merchant I figured out that he is a chauvinist. He was asking Natalie how long into the future she saw herself in the business. She answered ten years. He said what will you do after that? She replied that she would still write, sing and record songs, they just might not be mega-platinum sellers. O.k., so it is obvious now who she is comparing herself to. When asked who her influences were in singer-songwriters she said Joni Mitchell. Charlie then said, noooooo, MALE singer-songwriters! I am so very close to dropping Mr. Rose an e-mail today. Like there has to be a line between the genders. Will we ever get past this point in our society? Oh well, just thought I would mention it this morning. Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 07:25:17 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Wally & Poems and Lyrics Wally, Send the books thru the PO "book rate" you'll get a BIG discount on the postage. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 09:10:01 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell3" Subject: Man From Mars Is the version of "Man From Mars" on TTT the same on that is on the Grace of my Heart soundtrack? I assumed that Joni re-recorded it, but wasn't sure. I really didn't like the (non-Joni) background vocals on the soundtrack version. Just curious... Is Meriweather Jones still around here somewhere? Reuben np: Judy Collins - Shameless. (Best album she's done in YEARS!!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 09:31:12 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Man From Mars ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 09:35:50 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Man From Mars Reuben Bell3 wrote: > Is the version of "Man From Mars" on TTT the same on that is on the Grace of my Heart soundtrack? > No. She rerecorded it. I prefer the original, but I'm a sucker for Joni on piano > Is Meriweather Jones still around here somewhere? He unsubbed a while back. I hope he returns. Always enjoyed his posts. > np: Judy Collins - Shameless. (Best album she's done in YEARS!!) I agree. A friend of mine is going to a publisher's conferernce in Georgia next weekend and he has promised to get me an autographed copy of her new book . Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:13:18 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Re: Joni mention on PBS At 08:16 AM 9/4/98 -0400, Sue Cameron wrote: >O.k., so it is obvious now who she is comparing herself to. When asked who >her influences were in singer-songwriters she said Joni Mitchell. Charlie >then said, noooooo, MALE singer-songwriters! Shucks, I usually really enjoy his interviews. Sounds like Charlie "blue" it. Wait, Isn't he Canadian? Wonder what caused such an antagonistic remark? -jzw ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 10:18:15 -0400 From: Marsha Subject: Re: Joni mention on PBS Julie Z. Webb wrote: > > At 08:16 AM 9/4/98 -0400, Sue Cameron wrote: > >O.k., so it is obvious now who she is comparing herself to. When asked who > >her influences were in singer-songwriters she said Joni Mitchell. Charlie > >then said, noooooo, MALE singer-songwriters! > Shucks, I usually really enjoy his interviews. Sounds like Charlie "blue" > it. Wait, Isn't he Canadian? Wonder what caused such an antagonistic > remark? He is a southern gent, Julie. North Carolina, I believe... Charlie Rose has some ingrained traits that still Grate on us GRITS (Girls Raised In The South). I oughta give him a piece o' my mind... Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 07:58:54 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Dulson's usual catch-up ramblings....(NJC) Deb Messling wrote: >Garnet Rogers (brother of the late Stan) also sings this song. It >was written by David Sudbury. I can evangelize forever about Garnet. >And Brian Gross can evangelize about Stan. Yo, Deb, what am I, chopped liver? :) I seem to remember posting a rave or two about the Rogers boys. On the very, very sad news stories about the Swissair crash, I see the pictures of Peggy's Cove, and I think of Make-and-Break Harbour. And heather posted: >NJC - Northampton Listings Northampton where? >Gillian Welch & David Rawlings - Sept 10 Trust me, GO TO THIS SHOW. Gillian and David on CD are wonderful, live they are transcendent. And please accept my very best wishes for all the Joni-partiers this weekend. I will be with you in spirit. Have a blast, guys! Hey Kakki, let's start organizing the LA-Van Gogh-JMDL party!?! ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:11:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: zen guitar Maybe this has been brought up before, but i just found a great book called zen guitar which i would highly recommend to anyone interested in the creative process. i went to the library to see if they had a copy of the Solo book on women songwriters. they didn't, but i did find this treasure. It is by philip toshio sudo and contains quite a few quotes by some of my favorite artists. Lo and behold, joni is quoted at the start of a section on tone. "I (write) by twiddling the strings into a different tuning - I throw it open to the cosmo. Then when you discover something that has an element of divine intervention, it's like a blessing." bill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:25:55 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Clouds-Sadie Sadie McKee is Joni's maternal grandmother. Myrtle McKee is Joni's mom, and Joni changed her name to Molly in "Tea Leaf Prophecy" Molly McKee gets her tea-leaves read-- You'll be married in a month they said. "These leaves are crazy! Look at this town--there's no men left! Just frail old boys and babies Talking to teacher in the treble clef." I think Joni's mother or grandmother was a piano teacher. Am I wrong? ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ < "Walking, talking Touched and scared Uninsulated wires laid bare" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:16:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Rachel Kramer Bussel Subject: TT review in Jane from the October Jane (successor to Sassy): 1 and a half stars (and a photo of Joni holding up a bush and wearing a big black coat/cape kinda thing) Taming the Tiger is more jazz than folk, which is not a bad thing in itself, except that the saxophone sounds as though it's playing the exact same thing on every track. And from the smell of some of the cheesy lyrics, Joni's heart is way broken: "Since I lost you, I can't get through the day without at least one big boo-hoo." Ugh. I wound up having such a severe aural reaction to this that I had to keep clearing my ears out with Turbulent Indigo to make it through to the end. Maybe Joni doesn't need the happy drugs of the '70s to make good tunes, but she could definitely use a little '90s Prozac. Esther Haynes well, uh, hmmm....?? rachel "you only live a day but it's brilliant anyway" -- elliott smith - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- my Mary Lou Lord page is at http://pages.nyu.edu/~rkb200/ To join the Mary Lou Lord mailing list, email Majordomo@smoe.org with ONLY "subscribe jinglejangle" OR "subscribe jinglejangle-digest" in the BODY. For info on my zine I'M NOT WAITING go to http://pages.nyu.edu/~rkb200/zine.html ------------------------------ Date: 04 Sep 98 09:37:27 -0800 From: Jim Ochsenreiter Subject: $5 off from Ticketmaster Received this email from ticketmaster with a $5 discount at Music Blvd thru the 18th of sept. the url is below. go shopping. >>To take advantage of this great offer and to save $5* on the music you love simply click on http://www.musicblvd.com/TSG4 or copy this address into the location field of your browser. It's that easy,so act now this offer expires on September 18, 1998 at 12:00 AM E.S.T. Your Friends at Ticketmaster * Limit one per customer. Please feel free to forward this message to your friends so that they can take advantage of this great offer. Also, you must use the exact address from above to redeem your $5 savings.<< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 12:48:37 -0400 From: heather Subject: NJC - Northampton Listings At 07:58 AM 9/4/98 -0700, you wrote: > >And heather posted: > >>NJC - Northampton Listings > >Northampton where? > >>Gillian Welch & David Rawlings - Sept 10 > >Trust me, GO TO THIS SHOW. Gillian and David on CD are wonderful, live >they are transcendent. > > Steve and all, My apologies please. Northampton Massachusetts. There are so many good shows, so little time ... Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:22:50 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: TT review in Jane > Taming the Tiger is more jazz than folk, Now, Rolling Stone says it's more pop than jazz. So mathematically, it's more pop than folk, right? (Maybe it's more country than pop. Maybe it's closer to Bulgarian choral music. How about ska? How about...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 19:24:19 +0100 From: catman Subject: Day Trip Home(JC!) I nust got back from Birmingham City Championship Show. On the way home I picked up a hitcher. I was playing Joni's latest cd in the car(but we won't mention that) and he immediately said 'god, she's changed. he was a Joni fan! No pc. Anyhow, his last Joni was DED. I also had TI and NRH in the car cd so played him those. He is a musician and has a band named Knights of The Occasional Table. He laso arranges for bands to play at venues. like many on this list he enthused about Joni's guitar work. i told him I knew nothing about such things and that when people on the list were going on about the bass on Hejira I thought they meant the big thing you play between your legs. Had bass guitar been mentioned I would have known what was meant! Anyway, he wants the Joni's I played him and i want to hear his cd so we will meet next week. (I often pick up hitchers as I used to do it as a teen. if they are on their own and look like hippies I picke them up. he was lucky cos he only lives a mile or so from where I live!) - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 11:32:15 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: TT review in Jane At 12:16 PM 9/4/98 -0400, Rachel Kramer Bussel wrote: >from the October Jane (successor to Sassy): >the saxophone sounds as though it's playing the exact >same thing on every track. Ah jeez..... We've become a bit numb over the years at some of Joni's lukewarm reviews but criticizing Wayne Shorter *really* shows ignorance. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:31:33 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: Re: Moving thru madness after reading even more post from folks about listening to Joni only, what i think (personally) is if i only listened to Joni i would have to scream, Boring! Boring! I would be snoring. not that she isn't the best. she is. the very, very, very best. Harlem in Havana is the best song I've heard since Turbulent Indigo's title track. it is so rich with flavor, it leaves me, as always, wondering, how does she do it? she is a mastermind. Michael said it for me when he said there is so much good music, and hardly enough time to hear it all. Lyle Lovett, Lucinda, Patty Loveless, Tammy, Nina Simone... i could make an almost endless list the only song i think i could listen to 15 times in a row is if Janis rose from the dead and recorded those missing vocal tracks to Buried Alive in the Blues. sherrie who will, as i have done since Ladies of the Canyon came out, go to my local, independent record store (Melody on Conn. Ave.) and pick up TTT on release day. i will, as always, snap up a few more copies as gifts for a few close friends. no panic. no worries. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 11:42:49 -0700 From: Craig Harris Subject: Re: TT review in Jane >from the October Jane (successor to Sassy): > except that the saxophone sounds as though it's playing the exact >same thing on every track. And from the smell of some of the cheesy >lyrics, Joni's heart is way broken: "Since I lost you, I can't get through >the day without at least one big boo-hoo." Ugh. I wound up having such a >severe aural reaction to this that I had to keep clearing my ears out with >Turbulent Indigo to make it through to the end. Maybe Joni doesn't need >the happy drugs of the '70s to make good tunes, but she could definitely >use a little '90s Prozac. Esther Haynes > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...........................................Est er, get a job that your qualified to do !!!!!!!!!! This is like a culinary review after someone removed your taste buds !! Cheezy lyrics ??.................. Prozac ?? maybe she could borrow some from you !! GOOD GOD !! Craig Craig Harris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:42:24 EDT From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Re: TT review in Jane In a message dated 98-09-04 12:18:48 EDT, you write: << "Since I lost you, I can't get through the day without at least one big boo-hoo." >> This tends to be a real clinker of a lyric to most people I've discussed Man From Mars with. Personally, it doesn't phase me that much. Given the fact that Joni wrote the song about her pet, not another person. This reviewer made the biggest faux pas in calling the album jazz. TTT is the most pop sounding LP from Joni in a long time (The electric guitar, the melodies). I wouldn't attempt to generalized this Joni. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:58:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: TT review in Jane > the day without at least one big boo-hoo." >> They'd have to pick on the one glaring line from the whole cd. I've said before that I hate that line. It's so un-Joni. When I sing along with the song it's the ONLY Joni line of all her songs that I can't find myself able to sing. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 19:56:22 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: TT review in Jane Okay, I know I'm not an expert but 'jazzy' was exactly how I described it. not all of it of course. It has different sound to anything else. DKasc13293@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-09-04 12:18:48 EDT, you write: > > << "Since I lost you, I can't get through > the day without at least one big boo-hoo." >> > > This tends to be a real clinker of a lyric to most people I've discussed Man > >From Mars with. Personally, it doesn't phase me that much. Given the fact > that Joni wrote the song about her pet, not another person. > > This reviewer made the biggest faux pas in calling the album jazz. TTT is the > most pop sounding LP from Joni in a long time (The electric guitar, the > melodies). I wouldn't attempt to generalized this Joni. - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 19:58:14 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Moving thru madness Whilst I wouldn't go as far as to say it is better than TI, Halrem is a great song-i love the way it starts and her voice. The start originally frightened me as I didn't straight away reralise the sound was coming from the hi fi! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 19:59:20 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: TT review in Jane Gerald Notaro (LIB) wrote: > > the day without at least one big boo-hoo." >> > > They'd have to pick on the one glaring line from the whole cd. I've said > before that I hate that line. It's so un-Joni. When I sing along with the > song it's the ONLY Joni line of all her songs that I can't find myself > able to sing. I think it si great. The words that surprise me at to My Best To you. They really surprise me. > > > Jerry - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:26:35 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Joni's Big Boo-Boo Do you think the "one big boo-hoo" line (which also makes me wince) comes from something in the movie Joni was writing for? I didn't see the film, but wasn't it about early-sixties girl group writers? Maybe Joni was trying to write in the character of a naive and corny era? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:22:55 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: Re: TT review in Jane >> the day without at least one big boo-hoo." >> They'd have to pick on the one glaring line from the whole cd. I've said before that I hate that line. It's so un-Joni. When I sing along with the song it's the ONLY Joni line of all her songs that I can't find myself able to sing. Jerry<< about that line... duane said it best when he said he isn't that phased by that line since he knows she wrote it for her lost cat. I agree. when i first heard this song on the Grace CD, i thought, no, Joni did NOT write that line. i would cringe when i heard it. but now, it doesn't bother me at all. in fact, when i moved in with cindy in July, Mr. Kitty split for 100 hours. i thought i would die. i couldn't even think about the lyrics to Man from Mars, let alone hear it. i cried and cried, many big boo hoos. when she sings, "since i lost you" the way she sings the word "you" just rips me up. mr. kitty came home with tar all over his feet and butt. i was so happy to see him i can not tell you the feeling. and that was 5 days, not 18. one of my fave moments at julie's was when the mike got passed to michael y. right at the moment joni was singing "boo hoo" and he sang those lines in to the mike so flat and sarcastically. it was hilarious. all that said, they are not her best lyrics. since i lost you i can't get through the day without at least on big ah chooo sherrie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:30:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Rachel Kramer Bussel Subject: JANE email addy Since this has provoked quite a reaction, I figured I'd pass along the Jane email address so some of you can write to them or Esther and tell her what you think... jane@fairchildpub.com I'm waiting till I hear the CD before saying anything... :) Rachel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 12:32:02 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: TT review in Jane In response to this lame, myopic review ... >Taming the Tiger is more jazz than folk, which is not a bad thing in >itself, except that the saxophone sounds as though it's playing the exact >same thing on every track. And from the smell of some of the cheesy >lyrics, Joni's heart is way broken: "Since I lost you, I can't get through >the day without at least one big boo-hoo." Ugh. I wound up having such a >severe aural reaction to this that I had to keep clearing my ears out with >Turbulent Indigo to make it through to the end. Maybe Joni doesn't need >the happy drugs of the '70s to make good tunes, but she could definitely >use a little '90s Prozac. Esther Haynes > Okay, so let me get this straight -- the guitars aren't acoustic so it can't be folk. There's a saxophone on the tracks -- so it must be jazz - -- and everyone "knows" all jazz sounds the same ;-). But then again, without a Spice-Girls drum module going "pooky-pooky" through the whole thing it can't really be considered pop. And if Joni feels a little boo-hoo about the death of one of her beloved cats -- more power to her. Spare me! Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 13:10:13 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Joni on MSNBC Here's a quote from MSNBC's Fall Music Guide article: "No one questions the respect shown Joni Mitchell, whose latest, “Taming the Tiger,” does nothing to diminish her reputation. Included on the CD are “Crazy Cries of Love,” in which Mitchell is accompanied by a jazzy saxophone riff, and the morose ballad “Love Puts on a New Face.” Mitchell previewed her new material earlier this year while touring with Bob Dylan and Van Morrison, and it was well received by her devoted fans." Now that's more like it! Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:15:08 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: TTT promotion In a message dated 9/3/98 7:18:31PM, MGV1@valley-media.com writes: << Sounds a bit like Joe Kennedy's mass purchases of "Profiles in Courage" to me. What happens when, based upon these early sales, stores order more shipments which don't sell as rapidly? And there are a lot of returns. Typically, a store is not allowed to return "new releases," so their inventory sits and sits. Once they can return the stuff, they get dinged with penalties and handling charges. Not a profitable scenario. On top of that, her stuff gets a reputation of not having strong enough legs to warrant re-orders. For an artist who is so involved with the product, from music to packaging and design, you'd think she would have a deeper finger in the promotion pie. >> Well said, and I agree fully - I think it's great that Joni fans will rush out and buy the album as soon as it appears - and maybe even a copy for a friend. But mass purchasing on such a scale would be ridiculous, and counter- productive as MG says. Mind you, I'm tempted to believe whoever suggested the idea was, as we say, taking the Mickey ;-). Azeem in London NP: Robert Palmer's "Don't Explain", a very rum piece of work: starts off with some pretty poor hard rock, complete with horrible squally guitar solos. Then he mixes up some old standards (title song, Mercy Mercy Me/I Want You, People Will Say We're In Love) with wonderful originals like Happiness, History and Aeroplane. Great arrangements, fine singing and great songs - he is very seldom cited as a songwriter, but he has this way of writing songs that sound like standards. The first time I heard "Happiness" I was CONVINCED it was a cover - it wasn't! "Take a gamble with your heart Take a chance on happiness Odds are on your better half You'll be glad you placed the bet" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:15:10 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Doing a show. NJC Jamie, I'll do my best to get there on Sunday night. Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:15:09 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC In a message dated 9/3/98 6:47:47PM, les@jmdl.com writes: << i am looking for a song by greg brown (i think it's greg brown) "gramma's hands" >> I'll be the hundredth to let you know "Grandma's Hands" was written by the great Bill Withers. And you won't believe this, but Christine Collister (whom I'm not really trying to shoehorn into every post I do...) sang it as part of a revue called "Hell Bent & Heaven Bound", which was basically all songs about death - laugh-a-minute stuff it was... Azeem in London NP: Still Robert Palmer's "Don't Explain" - it's quite long ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 16:20:34 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Joni mention article Copyright 1998 The Scotsman Publications Ltd. The Scotsman September 2, 1998, Wednesday WOMEN," said my multi-talented friend the tennis champion, clarinettist, saxophonist, pianist and, curiously, full-trained master baker, "are not natural musicians. They can be trained to a reasonable standard, but in the end of the day, men will always be superior." "Joni Mitchell," I replied. He did not pause even more a second. "Joni Mitchell," he intoned, "is not a woman." As a fully-paid-up member of the Joni Mitchell fantasy society since my teenage years (example: Joni Mitchell arrives in Scotland, and arrives at Prestwick Airport restaurant in which, at 17, I am a student pretending not to be a waiter. I play her one of my sub-Cohen songs over an advocaat and lemonade, we fall in love, she produces my first hit album, I move to California and become her Celtic muse) this was a hugely offensive remark. Besides, it was patently ludicrous to suggest that women are essentially less musical than men. Wasn't it? The problem is that a quick scan of my record collection reveals a fairly minuscule selection of distaff discs: Emmylou Harris, another sexual icon since that unbelievably erotic picture on the back of her first solo album, Pieces of the Sky; Nona Hendryx, courtesy of her status as feminist icon to several early girlfriends. A sprinkling of Tamla and Kent soul combos, Aretha Franklin and latterly Mary Chapin Carpenter prior to her Nashvillisation. No Bonnie Raitt, because of loyalty to Elvis Costello. Ricky Lee Jones's first tectonic-plate-moving record and one or two later bits and pieces too. But compared to the vast vinyl horde of testosterone-soaked rock, from the appalling (yes, there are still copies of Yes's Tales From Topographic Oceans and Emerson Lake and Palmer's Brain Salad Surgery lurking, but only two of each) through the unlikely (a complete set of Incredible String Band LPs) to the frankly insane (a Happy Mondays interview CD) there is very little female creativity in evidence. It was not, however, in an attempt to redress this imbalance that I found myself some 30 quid lighter of pocket on Saturday and staggering back to the car with three CDs, all by women, all classified as country. True, it may be part of a mid-life crisis return to the adolescent haunting of record-shops perfected at Fairbairns in Troon (first single: Distant Drums by Jim Reeves; first album, Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn and Jones Ltd by The Monkees: how cool is that?), but there was no erotic longing involved in the lashing out of all that cash. Country, I thought, couldn't be sexy. Until I listened to the first track on Lucinda Williams's critically-slavered-over record, Car Wheels on a Gravel Road (Mercury), Right In Time: possibly the most hallucinatorily seductive song ever recorded. Lucinda Williams has managed to produce the best example of tough'n'tender, hard-nosed, sexy, hard-drinking broad's music since ... oh, Ricky Lee Jones's Ghosty Face. Its reception - universally rabid approval, almost all from male critics - may be due to her fulfilment of the rock writer's fantasy of feisty femaledom, reinforced by the actual presence of genuinely hard-living, hard strumming country rock legend Steve Earle, and in spirit Earle's own main man, the late Townes Van Zandt. In comparison, Kate Campbell's Vision of Plenty (Demon) is almost your standard New Nashville twang, although her southern-liberal lyrics are funny, sharp and, on the autobiographical civil rights remembrance Crazy in Alabama, enormously moving. But compared to Lucinda, she sounds more like a girl straight out of creative writing class with a reasonable record collection and a future, not a woman with a past and a half. Gillian Welch, by contrast, is downright strange. From an arty Californian background, her take on country is at first sight as camp as kd lang's early work, but when you listen to her tales of rape, death, religion gone berserk, whisky and morphine, it doesn't matter that she's an MTV kid with an education and an interest in anthropology. John Fogerty had never visited the south when he wrote all those Creedance swamp-rock classics, and Welch is at least his equal in aural scariness. A badmoon rising, indeed. Even the title of her CD has a shivery resonance, despite appearing to mean very little: Hell Among the Yearlings (ALMO Sounds). Three women, then, all American, all taking country ingredients and making very different dishes out of them. But then, that's where my old pal the baker and brass player probably thinks they should be: in the kitchen. Personally, I think they make their male competitors look wimpish, thick and unadventurous. But what do I know? After all, as Tammy said, I'm just a man. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 16:27:41 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: from Billboard Joni Mitchell, who was considering retirement from the vagaries of a fickle music business only a year ago, has invested her latest album, "Taming The Tiger," with a newfound passion and optimism that have her label, retailers, and even the artist herself feeling hopeful about its prospects. "My prejudices against popularity are many, but I'm trying to get bigger," says Mitchell, the recipient of Billboard's 1995 Century Award for distinguished creative achievement. "I like the way this record turned out, plus my stock has risen lately with Janet Jackson sampling me in her hit ["Got 'Til It's Gone"] and with my becoming a tabloider. More heads are turning at airports these days." Howie Klein, president of Reprise Records (U.S.), has noticed the difference. "Joni hasn't always been tremendously available for the media or wanted to talk about her work. Like Madonna, she wears the pants in all departments when it comes to her music," he says. "Lately, she has a newfound exuberance and is excited to find ways to get her product to market. It won't be easy, but we are dealing with work of great quality." The album launches Sept. 29 in the U.S. and Sept. 28 in the rest of the world. According to Klein, early retail interest is positive, with promises of listening-station placement and wall displays showcasing the album-jacket art that Mitchell painted. Radio is expected to come on board with its support when album track "Crazy Cries Of Love" goes to triple-A and NPR stations Sept. 14. "Joni has a devoted fan base who won't care what kind of album she makes, because they love her and have been waiting four years for new music," says Eric Keil, VP of purchasing for Compact Disc World, a nine-store chain based in South Plainfield, N.J. Mitchell named one of her four cats after Friedrich Nietzsche, and the philosopher's idealistic sentiments (i.e., "What does not kill me makes me stronger") could be seen as mantras for her musical career to date. "I'm not a typical artist of my generation, as my driving will isn't broken down. I haven't even peaked yet," Mitchell says. "I'm a serious musician in that I'm in it for the music. Unfortunately, this doesn't always make a record company happy. The pattern is to knock people for trying new things, and I've had my fair share of two-star reviews. I experiment because I'm restless and get bored easily." After tinkering for 2 years, Mitchell felt ready to unleash "Tiger." Creativity for the project was stoked when director Allison Anders asked Mitchell to write a song for a grieving scene in the film "Grace Of My Heart." "I told her, 'I want to do it, but I'm not a hack. I can't write on cue, and the only song I have in me now is 'I hate show biz,' " Mitchell says. "She told me to write that song and she'd fit it somewhere. "Meanwhile, my cat Nietzsche, who my boyfriend called Man From Mars because he walks on two legs and looks like a classic Martian, had taken to piddling everywhere. I got mad and told him, 'If you want to act like an animal, you'll live like one.' I put him outside, and he gave me a look of betrayal before taking off. I was trying to write the song but was going through all the emotions of loss and guilt. I hung fliers and would search the neighborhood at night. After 17 days, I had written the grieving song Allison needed based on my loss." On the 18th day, Mitchell was re- united with her feline muse, allowing her to refocus on the show-biz-sucks track, "Taming The Tiger." "It's a racket, a business of wet dreams, and what chance in hell does that leave women in their 50s?" Mitchell says. "Companies hang on to you for prestige but won't do anything to promote your work, especially if the public voice has criticized you. It's like being an athlete all suited up but sitting on the bench. It's hard to endure, but most artists will have to live it. This subject reeks of fogeydom and is hard to write about clearly without sounding like an asshole." Mitchell says the problem stems from constant pandering to "hip." She explains, "Instead of enthusiasm for something original, you hear, 'Well, what are we going to do with that?' The system trains people to be purchasers manipulated by hip, in and out, hot and not hot. But hip is hindsight, so I stood my ground and plowed on. If you avoid doing what's cool, you won't have bell-bottom pants on your songs down the road." Mitchell also gets pinned with the unappealing tag of "heritage artist." "I have to compete with myself and often get panned for not playing my old stuff. I was careful to stay out of '60s and '70s repackaging so as not to be wrapped up and kissed off for early retirement," she says. "My chords reflect my complex life, which is why my simple old songs don't suit me. It's good folky pop music, but it's like primary colors when you like aubergine. It's hard to know who I'm addressing, knowing that my generation doesn't buy records and typical younger ones reject me as their parents' contemporary." And nothing gets her goat more than being "referred to as highminded and dismissed while watching cheap imitations use my name to launch careers and go platinum." "If you can like them, why can't you like me?" she says. "It's better for you and almost tastes the same. It's provocative and might take a little thinking, but the rewards are limitless when the product is good." With all these obstacles, it's no wonder that Mitchell almost an- nounced her swan song after 30 years and 19 albums. "I was sitting here [in the Daily Grill in Brentwood, Calif.], and I told the waitress I was going to quit. She burst into tears and told me how much she loved my music and used it to articulate her feelings when she couldn't find the words," she says. "That made me feel good. People on the street have always been where I got my good reviews. It helped me to realize I still had things to say." ALLUSIONS & METAPHORS The 11 tracks on "Taming The Tiger" are an extension of Mitchell's longtime love affair with smooth jazz, ambient new age soundscapes, layered sounds, and poetic lyrics chock-full of allusions and metaphors. Opener "Harlem In Havana" invites listeners to step right up to a bouncy tune fashioned after traditional carnival-midway music. "It's quite a dense mix. If you don't pay attention, you'll miss something," Mitchell warns. Next is Mitchell's lament for her lost cat, "Man From Mars," followed by a ballad of anguish and love called "Love Puts On A New Face." Mitchell picks up the pace for "Lead Balloon"--which opens with the brash line " 'Kiss my ass,' I said"--and delivers some of her folk-roots sound on "Facelift." She scrutinizes a current state of affairs in "No Apologies." "The introspective artist is like a canary in a coal mine in that they are the first to feel things," Mitchell reasons. "If they are worth a salt, they should turn a jaundiced eye toward society and look for a vaccine. That's the difference be- tween artists and stars. Stars are only concerned with twinkling." The first single, "Crazy Cries Of Love," was penned by Don Freed, who describes the mesmerizing effect of young love. Wayne Shorter's lilting sax helps achieve a misty-eyed, warm, fuzzy atmosphere overall. A Shorter solo also opens "Stay In Touch," another mellow ballad. Mitchell says, "Wayne is an undervalued, amazing talent. He crawls over notes and has a relationship with them. He is welcome to scribble all over my songs." Mitchell covers "My Best To You," written in 1942 by Gene Willadsen and Isham Jones. It's accompanied by alt.country pedal steel genius Greg Leisz, who recently cameoed on Grant Lee Buffalo's "Jubilee." Hidden track "Tiger Bones" is a sparse instrumental version of the title track that showcases the guitar part without all the orchestration. 'HITS' & 'MISSES' Mitchell's last original album was 1994's "Turbulent Indigo." Besides selling 275,000 units, it reached No. 47 on The Billboard 200 and scored two Grammys. In 1996, she released the dual retrospective collections "Joni Mitchell Hits" and "Joni Mitchell Misses." "Hits" peaked at No. 161 on The Billboard 200, while "Misses" failed to chart. They sold 150,000 and 45,000 copies, respectively, according to SoundScan. Her older albums, like 1971's "Blue" and 1974's "Court And Spark," check in with much higher numbers, peaking at No. 15 and No. 2 and having sold 210,000 and 250,000 units, respectively, since SoundScan started charting point-of-purchase sales in 1991. Compact Disc World's Keil says he is less likely to base orders on past numbers when it comes to icons like Mitchell. "You just have to carry her rec- ords, as she is such a legend and has shaped the female singer/songwriter genre of today," he says. "The catalog sells at a continuous pace." Internationally, Mitchell's critical reputation runs ahead of her retail profile, as evidenced by an 18-page feature on her in the August issue of Mojo. In the U.K., both "Hits" and "Misses" failed to reach the 75-position album chart, and "Turbulent Indigo" had only a two-week stay. "Big Yellow Taxi" remains her only appearance on the British singles chart, in 1971. Monica Keane, rock album buyer for Tower Records' Piccadilly Circus store in London, agrees that older Mitchell albums easily outsell later releases. "We had some of them in a catalog sale recently, and they did remarkably well," she says. But Keane points to the renewed success of Mitchell contemporaries like James Taylor as a hopeful sign for the latest album. "The new one should do quite well," she predicts. "We'll rack it with the old stuff." RADIO PUSH Reprise hopes radio will help introduce new audiences to Mitchell and whisk old fans into record stores with the release of "Crazy Cries Of Love." Bob Angell, music director for WCLZ Portland, Maine, anticipates the album being a big hit with his listeners. "Triple-A is one of the places that rewards Joni for evolving," he says. "She is still in regular rotation, with quite a few cuts in the library. Without even hearing the new record, we'd be willing to throw on a track or two." Mitchell, who is managed by Sam Feldman & Associates and booked by Marty Diamond of Little Big Man, is the subject of a 90-minute live special airing nationally in November. Subsequent airings may be scheduled on VH1 or PBS. Fans of Mitchell's live show can also catch her Sept. 18 at a benefit for the Old Town School of Folk Music in Chicago. She also was scheduled to perform a set at A Day in the Garden, held Aug. 14-16 at the site of the original Woodstock in Bethel, N.Y., and did a West Coast mini-tour with fellow rock giants Bob Dylan and Van Morrison. "It took a great bill like that to get me on the road, because I don't have the appetite for applause anymore," Mitchell says. She may give in and travel the U.S. in October or November. Meanwhile, other artists sing her praises in interviews and deliver versions of her songs--like Joshua Redman jazzing up "I Had A King" on his upcoming "Timeless Tales"--and turn more consumers on to Mitchell's magic. Imaginary Road artist Jennifer Kimball gushes at the mere mention of her name. "I don't think there is any female writer/guitar player who has been more influential," she says. "Everything she does is complex and beautiful. Her voice is one of the most beautiful things in the world to listen to." Regardless of how "Tiger" fares, Mitchell says the acknowledgment of her influence on the modern musical map is proof enough that the hard work hasn't been in vain. "I don't have a false modesty. I know the work is good, but I appreciate the compliment that covers are. You can never hear enough nice things," she says. As for the aforementioned retirement, Mitchell says she isn't sure where the music will go from here. She is certain she won't start playing the game now and admits that she is tired of being "told I'm poop when I'm great, and great when I'm poop by the looming public voice." "Not that anyone should feel sorry for me," she adds. "I'm not a starving artist, and my career let me meet great people and see the world. I've had a hankering to explore my painting more. After all, my music bought a lot of oil paint." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:59:04 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: TT review in Jane Oh, fuck you Esther Haynes! (And I feel I can say that at a worthless journalist!) Rachel Kramer Bussell wrote: >Taming the Tiger is more jazz than folk, which is not a bad thing in >itself, except that the saxophone sounds as though it's playing the exact >same thing on every track. And from the smell of some of the cheesy >lyrics, Joni's heart is way broken: "Since I lost you, I can't get through >the day without at least one big boo-hoo." Ugh. I wound up having such a >severe aural reaction to this that I had to keep clearing my ears out with >Turbulent Indigo to make it through to the end. Maybe Joni doesn't need >the happy drugs of the '70s to make good tunes, but she could definitely >use a little '90s Prozac. Esther Haynes NP-Paprika Plains (Could this possibly be the most beautiful song ever? I'm truly obsessed with the imagery and the lyrics!) "...The band plugs in agian..." _____________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |___________________________| - -State Mottos- Illinois: Please Don't Pronounce the "S" Wisconsin: Eat Cheese or Die Pennsylvania: Cook With Coal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:15:59 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re alternate tunings (NJC) Howard wrote:- Why not a piano, a bass, a mandolin? By saying "alternate" tunings, we are implying that there is one standard or traditional tuning for the instrument - but that is not to say we are not allowed to experiment with new tunings. A piano could be tuned in all sorts of ways - the notes don't *have* to be in chromatic order. This is the tradition, and (nearly) all piano music has been written with this in mind, but why not tune a piano using a whole tone scale? You wouldn't be able to play music written for a "traditionally tuned" piano, but you would be able to play a whole load of new music that would not be possible on a standard-tuned piano. I've been talking to my mandolin teacher about this today. She told me that she recently played in a Chinese opera in which both the piano and mandolin were "alternately" tuned with interesting effect. She said that it was not uncommon for pianos to be tuned in quarter tones for some modern classical music! The mandolin can be open tuned - e.g. open G - or the 2 strings which make up a pair on the mandolin can be tuned a third apart instead of being the same. This she demonstrated for me on the E string and it gave the instrument a completely different sound and feeling but, unfortunately, you really need to be an expert player to use a tuning like that. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:16:02 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re alternate tunings (NJC) Howard wrote:- Why not a piano, a bass, a mandolin? By saying "alternate" tunings, we are implying that there is one standard or traditional tuning for the instrument - but that is not to say we are not allowed to experiment with new tunings. A piano could be tuned in all sorts of ways - the notes don't *have* to be in chromatic order. This is the tradition, and (nearly) all piano music has been written with this in mind, but why not tune a piano using a whole tone scale? You wouldn't be able to play music written for a "traditionally tuned" piano, but you would be able to play a whole load of new music that would not be possible on a standard-tuned piano. I've been talking to my mandolin teacher about this today. She told me that she recently played in a Chinese opera in which both the piano and mandolin were "alternately" tuned with interesting effect. She said that it was not uncommon for pianos to be tuned in quarter tones for some modern classical music! The mandolin can be open tuned - e.g. open G - or the 2 strings which make up a pair on the mandolin can be tuned a third apart instead of being the same. This she demonstrated for me on the E string and it gave the instrument a completely different sound and feeling but, unfortunately, you really need to be an expert player to use a tuning like that. Jacky ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #338 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?