From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #322 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, August 27 1998 Volume 03 : Number 322 The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: A Day of Fine Gardening:The Chili Review [trxschwa ] more mojo [Drewdix@aol.com] Re: more mojo [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Woodstock Theme Park ["Winfried Hühn" ] Annie Lennox [Hassan Zubairi ] joni mention on vh1 [Bill Dollinger ] Siquomb [Steve Dulson ] JONI on VH-1 [Jim Ochsenreiter ] Intro to the list [Howard Motyl ] Elliott Smith list [Bounced Message ] RE: Intro to the list ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Intro to the list [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Intro to the list (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] Re: Mojo Revisited [catman ] Re: Annie Lennox [catman ] Re: Intro to the list (NJC) [TerryM2442@aol.com] billboard mag [Robbert ] Re: Intro to the list (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] Re: Intro to the list (NJC) [Brian Gross ] NJC - J-cards [Les Irvin ] Re: More VG-8 News! [jan gyn ] Re: Intro to the list (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] RE: Annie Lennox ["Mike Friedman" ] joni/partridge connection [trxschwa ] Ask and Ye Shall Receive (NJC) [Ashara@aol.com] Re: WFUV-FM & Taming The Tiger ["Deb Messling" ] Re: Intro to the list (NJC) [Mark Domyancich ] RE: 50+ tunings, about tuning systems, njc [trxschwa ] re: 50+ tunings, etc. NJC [Robert Holliston ] Acronyms ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Acronyms ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] More stuff for newbies ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Garden Print Media? ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Plans (NJC) [Bolvangar@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:20:52 -0400 From: trxschwa Subject: RE: A Day of Fine Gardening:The Chili Review mr. chili, one of the almost rules of jmdl.com is to resist me-too-ism, but i cannot let your beautiful post go by without another 'bless you'. all of the garden appreciations have been wonderful, and anyone else who like me wants vicarious should visit wally's page of raves. but this was a particularly sweet piece of writing. i've been gifted, that you wanted me to feel it so closely, as you felt it. thank you so much. for each moment. for each song. you wrote, after pages of keep-forever prose about the show and gardening: >I am reminded of Alphonse Mucha's depiction of summer in his 1897 calendar, she is a beautiful pregnant woman with a sunflower. I have a secret place in my garden. I go there and listen to Joni music and think about that green place in our hearts that calls us back again and again to hear the songs of the Earth and the harvest and The Garden. and i think about how the great artists inspire us to love art, to love artistic achievement, and to want to know more. how joni embraced mingus and revered miles and sent a squadron of fans after jazz. how anyone who has ever loved maxfield parrish, including joni, might just now be learning about mucha, the true sorcerer of art deco graphics. patrick np - silence ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 04:31:03 -0400 From: trxschwa Subject: RE: suffragette tour (NJC) hey dougie, i think i'm gonna check it out next week with my usual jane-buddies. i was a little bummed, though. i have seen jane twice, at the fairly intimate bottom line in ny, and they were fascinating live shows. song, spoken word, stories, interplay with bandmates, completely rethought versions of old favorites, and treasures from her unrecorded rep. '7th floor of the grace hospital'. did she do that one? gail ann dorsey has been a guest in some of jane's recent live shows and recordings, but i didn't know she had her own thing going. in ny, the suffragette show is at roseland, a great place to dance but lousy to see performance. but this is a cool line-up, i've never seen the indigos, and i'm just loving jane these days. thanks for the review. patrick np - nothing - -----Original Message----- From: Wolfebite@aol.com [SMTP:Wolfebite@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 11:38 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: suffragette tour (NJC) hello gene & i just got back from the Suffragette tour concert- an ambitious and IMHO successful venture featuring... The Indigo Girls (Amy Ray and Emily Saliers) Jane Siberry Gail Ann Dorsey Lisa Germano Lourdes Perez Kate Schellenback of Luscious Jackson Jean Smith of Mecca Normal Josephine Wiggs of Breeders Thalia Zedek of Come I went for Jane mostly- haven't seen her live before- and figured this was at least one chance to see her. All and all- a solid show- all the woman on stage together- trading instruments and each taking the spotlight once or twice. Jane was fabulous of course- she did 'love is everything' from 'when i was a boy' and a new piece- about a fisherman and the sea- one of her gorgeous long poetic song stories... also- intro-ed on a fabulous encore version of "midnight train to georgia'. other notables- lisa germano did two songs- both exquisite- and this woman- gail ann dorsey- has an amazing and expressive set of pipes!! her first song was just stunning- and she kicked butt on a cover of ziggy stardust. Lourdes Perez was also outstanding so- i'd recommend this concert- next show: Thursday, August 27 Milwaukee, WI Rave Rave Friday, August 28 Minneapolis, MN First Avenue Sunday, August 30 Cincinnati, OH Bogart's Tuesday, September 1 Norfolk, VA Boathouse Wednesday, September 2 Philadelphia, PA Electric Factory Thursday, September 3 New York, NY Roseland I give them all lots of credit for delving so completely into each others music- and really stretching themselves- i imagine it's not an easy thing to do! doug ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:04:03 EDT From: Drewdix@aol.com Subject: more mojo yes, Mojo has always meant (to me) "magic", or in a more contemporary, rock & roll context, "that indefinable gift" that we like to attach to artists and those that inspire awe in our lives. In the song "L.A. Woman" (The Doors), there is a passage where the music slows, and Morrison hammers out the lyric: "Mr. Mojo Risin' " , certainly an allusion to magic and poetry, but actually, it's an anagram for Jim Morrison. - --Drew ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:17:21 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: more mojo Drewdix@aol.com wrote: > but actually, it's an anagram for Jim Morrison. Yes, his mojo was known to rise on many occassions! Jerry np: Carly Simon - My Romance ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:48:04 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: Woodstock Theme Park Marsha wrote: > and let's not forget > "Passion Play" adult motel on the perimeter of the park > Since we're in the adult corner already, here's a slightly kinky one: "Job's" SM parlor -- where your best nightmares come true!!! Winfried, foreseeing the fundamentalists knocking at his door one day ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:46:32 +-100 From: Hassan Zubairi Subject: Annie Lennox Of course yuou must have heard Annie's version of Ladies of The Canyon - it was the b side to her single (here we go again, I can't remember the name of it, the oneabout being a lunatic from the gracious days.) It sounds like Joni doing a revamp for a Chalk Mark tour. That kinda keyboards sound. Much Joni JamieJake ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:47:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: joni mention on vh1 vh1 had a brief joni mention today on the "before they were rock stars" program. it was part of a multiple choice - joni, gwen stefani and tracy chapman - in high school, one was in the writers club, one was on swim team and one played soccer. of course, joni was the writers club- showing a photo of her from the yearbook, with the club (and the hair)- and some nice current photos, mentioning that she has written quite a lot of songs. tracy played soccer and stefani was a swimmer. on the subject of multiple choices, the partridge family quiz i posted went over like a lead balloon (lead, lead, lead balloon), but in case anyone was wonderin, the correct answers were: L.A. Express members Max Bennett and Larry Carlton were the actual musicians on most of the Partridge Family records. (I noticed this at a flea market, when someone was pointing out the cheezy fan club liner notes on the back of one of their albums. I checked out a website and found that they were musicians on all the albums.) Joni photographer Henry Diltz is best friend and official David Cassidy photographer - I saw him interviewed on VH1. later, Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:54:41 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Siquomb Lori wrote: >She Is Queen Undisputed(ly) Of Mind Beauty >(Can someone clarify if it is, in fact, "undisputed" or "undisputedly"?) I always heard it as "She Is Queen Undisputedly Of Mind *and* Beauty. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: 26 Aug 98 09:58:43 -0800 From: Jim Ochsenreiter Subject: JONI on VH-1 Hi all... Last night while scanning the cable waves I stopped on VH-1 and watched some of "Before They Were Rock Stars". In the "Match the artist with what they did in high-school" game they put Joni, Tracy Chapman and Gwen Stefani together. "Which one of these female rockers was in the writing club...." and stuff like that. They had a great photo of Joan as modern 50's teen. It was a small and minor segment but maybe they are just warming up for something bigger and better when TTT is released. So, it seems as if the emails and phone calls to the media seem to be having an effect. I sent VH-1 an email last week to encourage them to do a Behind the Music on Joni and then this week there she was. Keep up the good work. Thy will be done. ..and thanks for all those great garden reports. Jim Ochsenreiter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:14:49 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Intro to the list I was talking with Julie, that fabulous Pittsburgher, about tape trees--cuz I have no idea how they work and I wondered about an introductory package for new members to the JMDL. There should be a list of terms that is sent to new subscribers explaining things like what abbreviations mean, how tape trees work, and any other rules and courtesy issues that need to be dealt with. For instance, I just found out the other day what NP meant--and that is becuz a new member asked an old one. I was too embarrassed to ask. I didn't want to appear unhip, not in the know. Is this a possibility? A kind of welcome wagon for Joni-philes coming on to the list for the first time. Howard NP: Shawn Colvin "A Few Small Repairs" "Jimmy thinks he's a helpless man He talks about love in a vacuum and he won't remember that talk you had when you were walking into the bedroom" - -- Howard Motyl Producer, MPI Teleproductions 16101 South 108th Avenue Orland Park, IL 60462 708-873-3190 708.873.3177 Fax http://www.mpimedia.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:01:42 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Elliott Smith list Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 01:18:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Rachel Kramer Bussel For those of you who are interested, there's an Elliott Smith mailing list run by this guy Nathan and to get on the list you can email him at nfrankli@trinity.edu and he'll su.bscribe you. Most of that list's members, including me, are not quite overwhelmed with XO - I've had it for a while now and it's definitely grown on me, especially "XO" and "I didn't understand" but I find myself going back to Either/Or and his self-titled album. Anyway...he is also touring. I don't have all the tourdates on hand but a few are Oct. 2 at Trocadero in Philly and Oct. 3 and 4 at Tramps in NYC, backed by Quasi, who are also the opening band and a really rockin' fun group - Sam plays this Roxichord I think it's called, this cool organ and Janet (who is also in Sleater-Kinney) drums and they have this cool poppy '70s sound and they cover "This WIll Be Our Year" by the Zombies. Some of you might like their recent album _Featuring "Birds"_ which is out on Up Records. Anyway, sorry to go on and on - I have been listening to lots of Elliott's music and had the great pleasure to see him perform recently in Hoboken and Toronto. :) Rachel my Mary Lou Lord page is at http://pages.nyu.edu/~rkb200/ To join the Mary Lou Lord mailing list, email Majordomo@smoe.org with ONLY "subscribe jinglejangle" OR "subscribe jinglejangle-digest" in the BODY. For info on my zine I'M NOT WAITING go to http://pages.nyu.edu/~rkb200/zine.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:44:19 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Intro to the list >There should be a list of terms that is sent to new subscribers >explaining things like what abbreviations mean, how tape trees work, and >any other rules and courtesy issues that need to be dealt with. >Is this a possibility? A kind of welcome wagon for Joni-philes coming >on to the list for the first time. > >Howard > But you do get a lot of this information with the welcome message, and then there's "The Page". WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:45:28 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Intro to the list Howard Motyl wrote: > I wondered about an > introductory package for new members to the JMDL. > > There should be a list of terms that is sent to new subscribers > explaining things like what abbreviations mean, how tape trees work, and > any other rules and courtesy issues that need to be dealt with Such exists at http://www.jmdl.com/tape/ It is not so out in the open as you would like because tape trees have been under fire recently by copyright purists. It's best to be cautious, than out front with it all. Jerry np: Maura O'Connell- Real Life Story ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:08:59 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Intro to the list (NJC) Howard wrote: > There should be a list of terms that is sent to new subscribers explaining things like what abbreviations mean, how tape trees work, and any other rules and courtesy issues that need to be dealt with. I think that's a splendid idea! A lot of newcomers to the Internet and discussion lists are not familiar with courtesy issues, although most ISPs (Internet service providers) probably offer some information. Of course the JMDL does have its own acronyms and lingo; perhaps we can compile a list of the more common abbreviations and the courtesies we like to adhere to on this list. In the meantime ... Howard also wrote: > For instance, I just found out the other day what NP meant--and that is becuz a new member asked an old one. I was too embarrassed to ask. I didn't want to appear unhip, not in the know. One of the basic tenets of life on the Internet is "friends helping friends" (AOL refers to it as "members helping members"), and we're all friends here on the JMDL. Nobody should feel embarrassed to ask about anything. Please, everybody, ask someone or everyone about whatever it is you're wondering about! (The only silly question is the one that is not asked ...) As far as appearing unhip is concerned ... well, if you think about it for even a minute, we're all kind of a geeky lot, us Internet nerds ... ; ) Just ask my "normal" friends! Lori in San Antonio, Texas (SATX) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:29:15 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Mojo Revisited Maybe it means reading your MOJO! Kenny Grant wrote: > Are you just checkin' out your mojo > Or am I just fighting off growing old > All I ever wanted > Was just to come in from the cold > > Well the last thread on the meaning of "Mojo" was somewhat inconclusive. > > Now we have Joni herself using the word in a sentence, but its meaning remains > elusive to me :-( > > Anyone have any suggestions as to her definintion of "mojo" based on the > passage below? > > -Kenny > > On 9/4/98 5:18PM, Today in Joni History wrote: > > 9/6/79: Today's issue of Down Beat Magazine features an interview with Joni > in an article entitled "Joni Mitchell Makes Mingus Sing." > > An excerpt: > "There was a lot of mojo in [Mingus'] life - there's a lot of mojo in my > life, too. He was very wrapped up with natural phenomena. And that's why I > think we all had a certain amount of faith in the possibility that he could > actually beat it. I always addressed myself to that possibility. If I > hadn't, I know the songs would have been much more directed at Charles, > like The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines would have probably had a different > lyric content, or Sweet Sucker Dance. Because when it came down to the > finished album, I thought, this is not a complete portrait of such a > complex person; I wished then that every song had been dedicated to a > certain aspect of his personality. Some addressed themselves directly; and > indirectly they all had something that was kindred with his way." > - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:31:20 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Annie Lennox It's on No More I Love You's cd single Hassan Zubairi wrote: > Of course yuou must have heard Annie's version of Ladies of The Canyon - it was the b side to her single (here we go again, I can't remember the name of it, the oneabout being a lunatic from the gracious days.) > It sounds like Joni doing a revamp for a Chalk Mark tour. That kinda keyboards sound. > > Much Joni > JamieJake - -- CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:27:27 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Intro to the list (NJC) In a message dated 8/26/98 2:10:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LRFye@aol.com writes: << Nobody should feel embarrassed to ask about anything. >> Lori, Ok, I'm gonna embarrass myself now. Someone (Heather?) wrote about a website for getting "J cards". What are those?? I'm guessing they are the thingies you find in cassette cases? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:23:24 +0200 From: Robbert Subject: billboard mag Hello there, greetings from Holland! Thank you to those who mentioned the coverstory in Billboard magazine on TTT. Since this magazine is not available over here, I was wondering if somebody would be so kind to maybe send me a xerox of the original? I will of course pay for all costs. Thanx very much in advance! Best, Robbert, who STILL can't believe he saw Joni in The Garden, together with so many Listers.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:53:14 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Intro to the list (NJC) Terry wrote: > Ok, I'm gonna embarrass myself now. Someone (Heather?) wrote about a website for getting "J cards". What are those?? I'm guessing they are the thingies you find in cassette cases? I've considered asking the same question, although for the longest time I've been associating J cards with something Mac oriented ... since I'm IBM-clone- prone, I've heretofore paid little attention to the subject. Heather or someone, can you help us out here? Lori in SATX ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:26:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Intro to the list (NJC) Lori and Terry wrote: > > > Ok, I'm gonna embarrass myself now. Someone (Heather?) wrote about a website > for getting "J cards". What are those?? I'm guessing they are the thingies you > find in cassette cases? > > I've considered asking the same question, although for the longest time I've > been associating J cards with something Mac oriented ... since I'm IBM-clone- > prone, I've heretofore paid little attention to the subject. > Yes, j-cards are the inserts found in the plastic cassette boxes that tell you what's on the tape. When you look at them from the side, they resemble the letter "j" Mark (Harpua) posted a Mac j-card application to his own website for downloading, including pre-written j-cards for 6 of the 7 audio tape trees already out there. Heather mentioned a site where the same application, but for non-macs, can be found. I'm not sure whether the documents are readable between the 2 different OS platforms. Brian np:For the Roses === "No paper thin walls No folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:37:26 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: NJC - J-cards Terry asked: >... "J cards". What are those?? And Lori responded: >I've considered asking the same question, although for the longest time I've >been associating J cards with something Mac oriented . J-cards are simply the inserts in a cassette box - what the "liner notes" are printed on. Thusly named because when looked at from the side, they form the letter "J". Les ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 03:28:02 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: More VG-8 News! I see myself spending a long time tuning and retuning my guitar, then slapping myself in the head saying, "Wow- I should have gotten a VG-8!" - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:39:39 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Intro to the list (NJC) Terry wrote: > "J cards". What are those?? I'm guessing they are the thingies you find in cassette cases? Don R., Brian G., Les, and Ken S. have confirmed (with additional info!) that J cards are indeed the thingies you find in cassette cases ... now see what a dork I was in my assumption that they had something to do with Macs? And I'm not even the least bit embarrassed ... (okay, maybe a little bit) On the JMDL, ask and ye shall receive ... Lori in SATX ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:52:13 -0700 From: "Mike Friedman" Subject: RE: Annie Lennox I just looked at Towerrecords, and they show it being on a "Whiter Shade of Pale" CD-single. MF > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@smoe.org [mailto:owner-joni@smoe.org]On Behalf Of > catman > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 1998 11:31 AM > To: Hassan Zubairi > Cc: 'JMDL' > Subject: Re: Annie Lennox > > > It's on No More I Love You's cd single > > Hassan Zubairi wrote: > > > Of course yuou must have heard Annie's version of Ladies of The > Canyon - it was the b side to her single (here we go again, I > can't remember the name of it, the oneabout being a lunatic from > the gracious days.) > > It sounds like Joni doing a revamp for a Chalk Mark tour. That > kinda keyboards sound. > > > > Much Joni > > JamieJake > > > > -- > CARLY SIMON DISCUSSION LIST > http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html > TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS > http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:29:19 -0400 From: trxschwa Subject: joni/partridge connection bill, i would've never guessed the correct answers, but there were some ferocious zingers in there. i loved it patrick np - crumb - from 'ancient voices of children' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:56:43 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Ask and Ye Shall Receive (NJC) Lori in SATX wrote: << On the JMDL, ask and ye shall receive ... >> OK, I'll bite! I am officially asking for the entire JMDL to come to MA for the Labor Day party on September 5th. OK.....waiting for 430 replys....... Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:12:59 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: WFUV-FM & Taming The Tiger FUV played the title cut from TTT this morning. Kind of ironic -- this station is so good, it contradicts Joni's lyrics. Anyway, the DJ said they would be playing it a lot before it's released in stores, "and when it's in the stores -- we'll play it backwards!" > Wally and I were recently visited by a little bird that told us this: > Radio station WFUV-FM in New York now has the ENTIRE Taming the Tiger album > in their hands! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:07:51 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Intro to the list (NJC) You can see my J-Card page at: http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/jcard.html This is for Macs only! And the PC stuff can be found at: http://www.jmdl.com/tape/ Brian wrote in reply to Terry and Lori: >Mark (Harpua) posted a Mac j-card application to his own website for >downloading, including pre-written j-cards for 6 of the 7 audio tape trees >already out there. Mark, realizing "The world runs on Windoze!" :) _____________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |___________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:51:07 -0400 From: trxschwa Subject: RE: 50+ tunings, about tuning systems, njc i wrote >i always thought 'the well-tempered clavier' was a cutesy name for one of bach's greatest achievements, but it's really just technical: a set of pieces for keyboard in a tuning system that was being eclipsed. and i was partly wrong, about that aspect. most eloquently, roberto Bach's Well-Tempered Klavier actually celebrates the new system of tuning; he would not have been able to compose preludes and fugues in every major and minor key in any other tuning system. but i'm also fascinated by kyle gann's thoughts on it. so i went back and was bombshelled by this: >If you are or were ever a college music student, you probably read, or were told, that Johann Sebastian Bach wrote his collection of preludes and fugues The Well-Tempered Clavier in all 24 major and minor keys in order to demonstrate equal tempered tuning. If so, you were misinformed. Bach did not use equal temperament. In fact, in his day there was no way to tune strings to equal temperament, because there were no devices to measure frequency. They had no scientific method to achieve real equal-ness; they could only approximate. Bach was, however, interested in a tuning that would allow him the possibility of working in all 12 keys, that did not make certain triads off-limits. He was a master of counterpoint, and probably chafed and fumed when the music in his head demanded a triad on A-flat and the harpsichord in front of him couldn't play it in tune. So he was glad to see tuners develop a tuning that, today, is known as well temperament. Back then, they did call it equal temperament - not because the 12 pitches were equally spaced, but because you could play equally well in all keys. Each key, however, was a little different, and Bach wrote The Well-Tempered Clavier in all 24 major and minor keys in order to capitalize on those differences, not because the differences didn't exist. In any case (according to Jorgensen), the error that Bach wrote the W.T.C. in order to take advantage of what we call equal temperament crept into the 1893 Grove Dictionary, and has since been uncritically taught as fact to millions of budding musicians. Lord knows how long it will take to get that error out of the universities. It's still in all kinds of reference books.> this is fascinating stuff, to this non-musician. i've been reading more of gann's work, at http://home.earthlink.net/~kgann/histune.html#hist1 and i'd love to sit at an equal-tuned piano and sound out intervals, as he suggests. or hear what my musician friends make of all this. patrick np - andriessen - de staat (again) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:58:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Holliston Subject: re: 50+ tunings, etc. NJC Dear Patrick, Thank you for sending that Kyle Gann quote - of course, I was taught exactly as he pointed out, and at a young enough age that this misconception, which certainly made sense at the time, has just been part of my thinking ever since. Of course, I was also told that "equal" and "well" tempered are synonymous. Now I need to listen to my WTC recordings with freshly opened ears... Thanks again, and all the best Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:21:02 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Acronyms Acronyms are the compression of a phrase into a series of first-letters that form a new word. Like IBM comes from International Business Machines. The JMDL has a few..... like JMDL for Joni Mitchell Discussion List. Here are a few others..... np is short for "now playing" to indicate what you were listening to while posting. NJC No Joni Content. Posters can use this abbreviation to alert the readers that their post can be skipped if they are only skimming for info specifically about Joni, her bad self. - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:21:36 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Acronyms Acronyms are the compression of a phrase into a series of first-letters that form a new word. Like IBM comes from International Business Machines. The JMDL has a few..... like JMDL for Joni Mitchell Discussion List. Here are a few others..... np is short for "now playing" to indicate what you were listening to while posting. NJC No Joni Content. Posters can use this abbreviation to alert the readers that their post can be skipped if they are only skimming for info specifically about Joni, her bad self. If you're new to the List, welcome. - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:37:43 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: More stuff for newbies This does NOT mean that someone said something "snippy" or unpleasant. It just means that they snipped out some text when they assembled the post. newbie While this is not an acronym, it should be made clear that it is not a put-down. It just means someone who recently discovered this little corner of western civilization. Wally is the guy who was insane enough to spend the last 20 years assembling the web page dedicated to Joni Mitchell. www.jonimitchell.com Les another nut who built and maintains this Discussion List. He also is a focal point for activities like selling the official Joni Mitchell Internet Community shirts. Find out more at www.jmdl.com Get it? - --- Maintaining a firm grasp on the obvious, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:51:41 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Garden Print Media? Has there been any photo spreads/reviews of The Garden in any of the leading magazines? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:32:08 EDT From: Bolvangar@aol.com Subject: Plans (NJC) Hello all, I'm eastbound and rolling this Saturday on a little vacation -- including a visit to Ashara's! -- returning briefly to Colorado a week from Sunday -- then on Labor Day I am leaving for London, England, where I am studying abroad next semester. (And where I'll get TTT one day earlier than most of you!) I don't know what my e-mail access in London will be like, so, though I hope to get hooked up and stay on the list, I may not be around much the next four months. Forgive the selfish post.... Best to everyone, - --David NP: _The Swimming Pool Q's_ : "Tell me a story that you guard so well/About a routine life in the Pine Motel/Someone asked where the hell you'd been/You say you went to see the devil's grin/A basket full of flowers running over the rim/Incandescents in a high school gym/And every single street corner will remind me of him...." ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #322 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?