From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest)
To: joni-digest@smoe.org
Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #292
Reply-To: joni@smoe.org
Sender: les@jmdl.com
Errors-To: les@jmdl.com
Precedence: bulk
JMDL Digest Thursday, August 6 1998 Volume 03 : Number 292
The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available
now. Go to for all the details.
-------
The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank
message to for all the details.
-------
Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things
Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered -
to
-------
And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee.
Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to
for more info.
-------
The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at
and contains the latest news, a detailed bio,
Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more.
-------
The JMDL website can be found at and contains
Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives,
and much more.
==========
TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
--------
Re: The Waking (now JC) [Bolvangar@aol.com]
More Stuff [Wally Breese ]
A Day in the Garden/Melanie [Medric Faulkner ]
Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ! [Jerry Notaro ]
Re: Maximum Bob (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ]
MOA [Steve Dulson ]
Stan/Garnet/Gene (NJC) [Steve Dulson ]
Re: j files (fwd) - NJC [LRFye@aol.com]
Re: something very interesting (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com]
Re: Joni dream 8.4.98 [TerryM2442@aol.com]
Joni blurb at Infoseek [Bounced Message ]
Circle Game Question [Bounced Message ]
Re: MOA [Bill Dollinger ]
Re: Joni dream 8.4.98 (NJC) [Marsha ]
Today in Joni History - August 6 [Today in Joni History ]
Joni on my radio [Marsha ]
Re: Joni blurb at Infoseek ["Don Rowe" ]
referers (njc) [Bill Dollinger ]
Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ! [Sue ]
Misc. 3 topics [Diana Duncan ]
Re: referers (njc) ["Don Rowe" ]
Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ! ["Julie Z. Webb" ]
Re: More Stuff ["Kakki" ]
Happy Birthday (NJC) ["Kakki" ]
Joni paperback book auction [kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)]
Re: JC/Garden stuff - Short Now [Mark Domyancich ]
Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ! [kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)]
virtual JM gathering [jussi ]
Lyrics to TTT [Wally Breese ]
Speculation, who's to know? [DKasc13293@aol.com]
Other Songwriters [Leslie Mixon ]
Re: Speculation, who's to know? ["Kakki" ]
Re: Speculation, who's to know? [DKasc13293@aol.com]
[none] [John Melchert ]
Re: Speculation, who's to know? ["Kakki" ]
Re: Speculation, well who's to know? [DKasc13293@aol.com]
record companies & corporations (minimal JC) [BarBearUh ]
Re: record companies & corporations (now JC) ["Kakki" ]
RE: record companies & corporations (now NJC) [Michael Yarbrough >
I'll give it a shot. "Shaking" (in "this shaking keeps me steady") could be
interpreted as something like a release of tension, which can in turn
definitely be soothing and steadying. I'm not sure I know about "Light takes
the Tree," but it is a rich image -- and, interestingly, a religious symbol
(the cross of the Crucifixion is sometimes called the Tree, which Roethke
capitalizes).
To me these lines are important in a larger context as examples of the poem's
use of paradox ("We think by feeling"; "I wake to sleep") and contrast ("the
lowly worm climbs up a winding stair"). I think the idea at the heart of this
poem is the paradox that sometimes what defines us and haunts us ("And is
near"), as much as what we are, is what we are not ("what falls away is
always"; "I feel my fate in what I cannot fear") -- the things past that we
left behind (that "fell away"), or left undone, or opportunities missed. And
that sometimes we learn what we are by learning what we are not: "I learn by
going where I have to go."
Some of the lines here remind me significantly of "Amelia" -- compare "I
learn by going where I have to go" and "...but who can tell us how?" with
"People will tell you where they've gone/they'll tell you where to go/but till
you get there yourself you'll never really know..." And both make use of
ground and air metaphors. And of course Joni is Our Lady of Duality -- and
paradox is certainly a kind of duality.
The Roethke poem, in its terseness and alliteration (feel/fate/fear;
worm/winding) and in rich images like "Light takes the Tree," reminds me also
of Old English (Anglo-Saxon) poetry, which I love. And I've been struck before
by parallels between _Hejira_, in which to me Joni seems drawn -- almost
against her will -- for reasons she can't understand, to the refuge of the
roads ("the strange pillows of my wanderlust"); and the Old English poem "The
Seafarer," in which the narrator is drawn to the sea despite its harshness.
Thanks for posting this poem. I love it -- I wasn't familiar with it before.
As I read it even the first time I heard music for it in my head -- especially
for the last line of the stanzas -- the poem really grabbed me. It screams "a
cappella" to me, a really stark setting, but I'm sure that's only one of many
possible interpretations.
Hope I haven't sounded pretentious here.
- --David
P.S. I never received Doug's post that Fred quoted with The Waking -- am I
missing some posts?
NP: Sandy Denny, _The Northstar Grassman and the Ravens_ ("....So into the
city the river did run....Because of the architect the buildings fell
down/Smothered or drowned all the seeds which were sown/I wish I were
somewhere not in this town/It may be the ocean next time around....")
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 98 04:41:39 -0700
From: Wally Breese
Subject: More Stuff
Hi everybody,
As of today, tickets for the first two days of the "Day In The Garden"
festival are STILL available for the special deal of two for the price of
one. So if you haven't bought your tickets yet, what are you waiting for?
8-)
I want to respond to the postings of Julie and Kakki concerning Joni
and her management's relationship with us fans on the Internet. While
it's true that in the past, I often got frustrated with the fact that we
were ignored by the business people, I do feel that the connection is
definitely evolving and improving. It was Joni herself who asked that
folks from the Internet be invited to attend the filming of her concerts
in Burbank on May 29th and 30th. To me, this makes it clear that now that
she's aware that we exist, she's reaching out to us. Do I still believe
that the JM Internet Community is being under-utilized? Yes, of course.
But even though the blossoming of the relationship may not seem swift
enough sometimes, it's moving along quite satisfactorily in my opinion.
There's recently been some discussion about the CPR album. I just got
my copy and I think it's a great-sounding record with the unmistakeable
voice and songs of David Crosby along with some beautiful lead vocals and
songwriting duties by his son, James Raymond. And the harmonies! When
Jeff Pevar adds his vocal to Raymond's and Crosby's, it's magical. Croz
just e-mailed me with his best wishes for my health.
On the subject of my health, I've completed the first of three
chemotherapy treatments, spending an hour a day for 5 days with an IV
drip of Leukevoran in my arm, followed by a slow shot into the IV of
5-FU, the chemo drug with which I'm being treated. Up until the third
day, I had no physical reaction to the treatments but then I had one bout
of vomiting followed by a few days where I had frequent feelings of
nausea. Another symptom I had was fatigue, which got worse and worse as
the week wore on. For 4 or 5 days after the last day of treatment, I
still felt tired and out-of-it but then I perked up and started to feel
relatively normal. Now I have two more weeks before another 5 days of
treatment #2. I'm going to enjoy the time off.
Later,
Wally
The Joni Mitchell Homepage
http://www.JoniMitchell.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 05:20:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Medric Faulkner
Subject: A Day in the Garden/Melanie
Melanie's homepage says that she is on the bill with Joni for Saturday
yet there is no mention of her anywhere else that I can see. Does
anyone know what time she will perform of if maybe she is at a
different site or something.
Medric Faulkner
Megg56@yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 08:42:03 -0400
From: Jerry Notaro
Subject: Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ!
Kate Tarasenko wrote:
> Sorry to take up soooo much bandwith with this,
That's what the list is for! Have fun. I'm jealous. But can't give my parents a
50th wedding anniversary dinner AND see Joni in the same year.
Jerry
np: kd lang - Shadowland
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:15:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bill Dollinger
Subject: Maximum Bob (NJC)
Did anyone see the show Maximum Bob last
night on ABC? I am not a big fan of television,
but this was so well crafted - and quirky, but
not so quirky as to turn me off (probably because
even tho it was far removed from reality in many
ways, it followed its own logic.)
It starred Beau Bridges and will be running
for 6 more weeks. I highly recommend that
you catch it on Tuesday nights.
Bill
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 09:25:15 -0400
From: Jerry Notaro
Subject: Re: Maximum Bob (NJC)
Bill Dollinger wrote:
> Did anyone see the show Maximum Bob last
> night on ABC? I am not a big fan of television,
> but this was so well crafted - and quirky, but
> not so quirky as to turn me off (probably because
> even tho it was far removed from reality in many
> ways, it followed its own logic.)
I think it is going to be a big hit. Of course, Carl Hiason is is a
favorite here in South Florida.
Jerry
np: Melissa Etheridige - Yes I Am
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 08:03:04 -0700
From: Steve Dulson
Subject: MOA
Mark asked:
>Isn't the Temple University concert on TT7 the complete MOA?
MOA the tour, or MOA the album? The album was mostly recorded in LA.
Were the setlists for all the MOA shows the same? I'd ask myself,
but I wasn't a Swami back then...
##############################################################
Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com
"The Tinker's Own"
http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html
"Southern California Dulcimer Heritage"
http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 07:58:42 -0700
From: Steve Dulson
Subject: Stan/Garnet/Gene (NJC)
Brian Gross wrote:
>I was introduced to Stan's music by Gene Shay and his Sunday night folk show.
>And thanks, Steve Dulson, for the url of the website devoted to Stan and
>his music. http://www.summerfolk.org/popdown.html
You're welcome! As I probably mentioned at the time, relentless name
dropper that I am, Gene Shay was behind me in the ATM line at Folk
Alliance in Memphis, and we got to exchange a few words. Nice guy.
FA/Memphis was also where I saw Garnet Rogers play. Next FA is in
Albuquerque next February, BTW.
##############################################################
Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com
"The Tinker's Own"
http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html
"Southern California Dulcimer Heritage"
http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:32:14 EDT
From: LRFye@aol.com
Subject: Re: j files (fwd) - NJC
Helen quoted Richard's response to her request for 3 hours of Joni on the air:
> Joni Mitchell is a great idea. No reason for not doing it yet. I have all
the time in the world to get through artists on The J Files. There's no
rush...
No reason for not doing it YET? What kind of response is that? There's NO
RUSH? The man is obviously not a great fan of Joni's ...
> And if you have a problem with Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys being on the
program, maybe you should listen as much to some of their albums as you
obviously have to Joni.
Helen, I don't mean to let the air out of your balloon ... Best of luck in
getting the J Files to play 3 hours of Joni ... certainly it should happen.
I'm wondering about the backhanded nature of Richard's reply, though ...
And -- with apologies to those JMDLers who like them -- I can't tolerate even
3 seconds of the Beach Boys ... the thought of extended listening makes my
skin crawl!
Lori
in San Antonio
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:36:17 EDT
From: LRFye@aol.com
Subject: Re: something very interesting (NJC)
Hi Helen!
You wrote:
>c'mon support other listies!
It's wonderful to have someone with your enthusiam on list! Keep your posts
coming!
However .. and I mean this in the kindest way ... please remember to add (NJC)
to the subject line of posts that don't include something about Joni.
Thanks ...
Lori
in San Antonio
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:40:55 EDT
From: TerryM2442@aol.com
Subject: Re: Joni dream 8.4.98
Yoni,
Youchh did a vonderful job, essept four von ting. Yourchh accent- it needs
vork. So, Yoni, vat you are doing aftur vork tonight? Vouldt you like to see
my new etchings?
Dr.SigMundegreen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 09:45:52 -0600
From: Bounced Message
Subject: Joni blurb at Infoseek
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 10:43:56 -0400
From: Deb Messling
Infoseek has a site devoted to A Day in the Garden. The Joni page includes
very nice writeups on the Wally and Les sites, a Live Chat feature and -
get this - an "Ask the Artist" form. Do y'all think Joni will answer
questions??
URL is http://concert.infoseek.com/jmitchell.html
Deb Messling
Internet Services Librarian
Bergen County Cooperative Library System
Hackensack, New Jersey
http://www.bccls.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 10:29:04 -0600
From: Bounced Message
Subject: Circle Game Question
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 11:36:35 -0400
From: "Perroni, Stephen"
Does anyone remember a movie made within the last ten years called
"Married To It"? I sort of remember it starring
Mary Stewart Masterson and Cybil Shepard (maybe). In the last scene
there was an elementary school play where the kids
All sang "The Circle Game". Let me know if I'm on the right track with
the movie title!!!
I was with an old friend of mine recently who reminded me of a grade
school play we were in and the whole class sang Both Sides Now. We
thought we were so cool in our polyester leisure suits with silk
flowered shirts and dock sider shoes. Wish we had video cams back in
1975 to record such "vintage" stuff!!
steve
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:28:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bill Dollinger
Subject: Re: MOA
Temple University is not MOA, but
I believe from the same tour--- Simon?
Along with versions of the songs performed
on MOA, it also includes great interplay
between joni and the audience, a story about
Spock on Star Trek that is priceless (tho she
does call him Dr. Spock)- and live versions
of Barangrill, Twisted, Trouble Child,
Down To You and Help Me. Long live tape trees!!!
Bill
On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Steve Dulson wrote:
> Mark asked:
>
> >Isn't the Temple University concert on TT7 the complete MOA?
>
> MOA the tour, or MOA the album? The album was mostly recorded in LA.
> Were the setlists for all the MOA shows the same? I'd ask myself,
> but I wasn't a Swami back then...
>
>
> ##############################################################
> Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com
> "The Tinker's Own"
> http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html
> "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage"
> http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 12:30:05 -0400
From: Marsha
Subject: Re: Joni dream 8.4.98 (NJC)
TerryM2442@aol.com wrote:
>
> Yoni,
>
> Youchh did a vonderful job, essept four von ting. Yourchh accent- it needs
> vork.
Siggy, Babe! How ya doin'?
I'll leave the Austrian (Hi, Marian!) accent to you.
Just think of mine as having a Bronx-like sound to it.
I like dreams where I can cut to the chase...
that's my style.
> So, Yoni, vat you are doing aftur vork tonight? Vouldt you like to see
> my new etchings?
Bring 'em on!!!
We could Rorschach the night away... ;-D
Yur pal Yoni Yung
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 12:35:00 -0600
From: Today in Joni History
Subject: Today in Joni History - August 6
1965: Joni performs at the Mariposa Folk Festival, Ontario. In the program
it read:
"Joni Anderson - Joni is a relatively new performer on the local folk music
scene. She began her singing career in 1964 with an appearance at The
Depression in Calgary and The Yardbird Suite in Edmonton. After gaining
acceptance in Western Canada, Joni decided to move east and seek her
fortune in Toronto. Since her arrival last fall, she has enjoyed
performances at several coffee houses--The Bohemian Embassy, The New Gate
of Cleve, and the Underground, to name a few. Joni is also noted for
playing the tipple--an eight-string instrument slightly larger than the
ukelele."
A picture of Joni from the program: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Mariposa.html
1994: Today's Calgary Herald features an article covering Joni's appearance
at the Edmonton Folk Festival:
"I had poor health for most of the '80s," said Mitchell, sucking on
cigarette after cigarette in a stifling hot tent behind the festival's main
stage. Every decade I have to go a few rounds with death, ya know? I'm a
polio survivor. There's a thing called post-polio syndrome. And I have an
allergy to air conditioning, so a lot of flying brings on strange symptoms.
Flying, which heavy touring requires, had to be held to a minimum."
Read the full article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/cal-herald-940806.htm
- --------
Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to
JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list.
- --------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 13:36:03 -0400
From: Marsha
Subject: Joni on my radio
Our NPR-affiliated jazz station just played Joni's
"How Do You Stop".
Nice.
Marsha, not-so-much-in-the-sticks-here
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 10:41:11 PDT
From: "Don Rowe"
Subject: Re: Joni blurb at Infoseek
Blast and darn! FormMail sent me some cryptic psycho-babble error
message about reconfiguing my server "@referers" ... whatever THAT means
... which is basically I don't get to submit a question. I guess
somebody else will have to try. Thanks for the pointer though, Deb!
Don Rowe
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:50:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bill Dollinger
Subject: referers (njc)
On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Don Rowe wrote:
> Blast and darn! FormMail sent me some cryptic psycho-babble error
> message about reconfiguing my server "@referers" ... whatever THAT means
Oh no, looks like we are heading back into
the recreational drug thread again ;-)
bill
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:56:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sue
Subject: Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ!
Gardeners and listers,
Just wanted to thank Kate personally for all that she has done to organize
and drum up excitement for this event. Kate, I will be the first one in
line to buy you a beer!
I am thinking about making a banner to hang on chairs if anyone is bringing
chairs. Is anyone other than Don making a banner for the concert?
The garden page states there is absolutely no food or drink to be brought
into the concert area. Is that a challenge I hear? I am thinking about a
contest...No not the kind of contest they had on Seinfeld, a contest to see
who can smuggle in the most contraband. Is anyone game?
Also wanted to thank Don for setting up a command post somewhere in the
parking area. We should all try and touch base there sometime before and
certainly after the concert. I am hoping to leave a cooler full of
refreshments there for all to partake in.
Look over the list below. The Yarn Kollection [Mendi]
isn't on it, yet I know she is coming. From what I understand Marsha,
Julie, and Kakki aren't attending but wanted to be in on the scoop. If you
are on this list and also being voyeuristic, please write so we can compile
a list of those who are definitely attending. If you aren't on here, then
what are you waiting for???
>LRFye@aol.com (Lori Fye in San Antonio)
>HEJIRA27@webtv.net (Gray Douglas)
>scam@freeway.net (Sue Cameron [Suze])
>music@bryanthomas.com (Bryan Thomas, or is it Thomas Bryan??)
>docnurse@VoyagerOnline.net (Marsha -- watchin' it from the wings??)
>djp@dca.net (???)
>kb420@webtv.net (Gr8ful Dave)
>sem8@cornell.edu (Sue McNamara)
>jzw@visint.com (Julie Z. Webb)
>Kay_Ashley@ars.aon.com (Kay Ashley)
>kakkib@att.net (Kakki - sure like to see you!! )
>Fluke_s@email.msn.com (Don Fluke, AKA Captain Tailgate [snap-to-salute!])
>queenaim@msn.com (Amy)
>kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant)
>messling@enter.net (Deb Messling/Fred Walzenfree !^)
>mprisco@dreamscape.com (Margaret Prisco)
>ejaimes@neuwirth-research.com (Eric)
>Robbert@vansprang.demon.nl (Robbert in Holland)
>luvart@snet.net (Heather)
>kwong@bev.etn.com (Kai Wong)
>Chilihead2@aol.com (Brian Mansfield)
>JAN201@aol.com (Jan)
>megg56@yahoo.com (Medric Faulkner from Mississippi)
>briangross@rocketmail.com (Brian Gross)
>michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net (Michael Paz, back from Honduras, but not going??)
>netgirl@ctos.com (and me, the chirp!)
As the day draws near I am basking in the glow of reuniting with old JMDL
friends Don, Heather, Mendi, Kenny and Brian Gross and looking forward to
meeting list legends Sue McNamara and Deb Messling, as well as the rest of
the individuals I have come to think of as my extended family.
Ten days and counting...
Sue Cameron (Suze)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 14:10:12 -0500
From: Diana Duncan
Subject: Misc. 3 topics
I've been busy with the last of summer school but had to comment on a few
posts.
At 01:04 PM 8/3/1998 -0600, Today in Joni History wrote:
>1979: Joni performs at the Oklahoma City Zoo Amphitheatre. Joni's summer
Now here is a place and concert I could get to! 4 hour drive only. In 1979
I was soooo out of the loop. We had moved from San Diego to a farm in
southern Missouri a town of 250 people. We were living in a trailer on my
(now ex) in-laws land. I had two little toddlers and the only radio
stations we could pick up were country. Talk about hicksville!
What I would give for Joni to give a concert in Oklahoma City now!!!!!!
cul wrote:
>like most guitarists...i have to keep my left hand completely nailess and my
>right fully armed.
Having played the violin from 8 years old I did the same thing. Actually I
bit my nails. Then when I became a budding teenager and wanted sexy long
nails (like Marsha's) I couldn't have any but the thumb on my left hand and
2 fingers on my right. (had to hold the bow) So I never quit biting my
nails. After I quit playing, for a while I did the acrylic nails too. But
have gone natural lately (still bite them).
At 10:14 AM 7/29/1998 -0500, Julie wrote:
>All of my life I have sung to myself, talked out loud/read out loud to
>myself etc When I was a child my parents would creep into my bedroom
>to see who was visiting---only to find me "thinking out loud." I don't
>think Im insane, but who knows...maybe some of you might call it that....I
>don't talk out loud to myself while in public, but you may catch me singing
>softly while walking down the street.
I do this. I've learned in my education classes that some people learn
better if they can speak it aloud to themselves. However, I don't think
that is the problem with me! I just keep myself company where ever I am.
My daughter will catch me and tell me that I really sound a little crazy.
Ask me if I care.
This morning a little bit of "Roses Blue" came into my head while taking a
shower
"I think of tears, I think of rain on shingles
I think of rain, I think of roses blue
I think of Rose, my heart begins to tremble
To see the place she's lately gotten to,"
Don't you just love how she says tremble.. really gets the mood across.
Of course the words in my head weren't exactly right at the time. And
what's weird is that I haven't heard that album for a *long* time. All I
have it on is vinal.
Has that ever happened to one of you???
Diana, (does talking to your cats count as talking to yourself?)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 12:32:38 PDT
From: "Don Rowe"
Subject: Re: referers (njc)
>On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Don Rowe wrote:
>
>> Blast and darn! FormMail sent me some cryptic psycho-babble error
>> message about reconfiguing my server "@referers" ... whatever THAT
means
>
>Oh no, looks like we are heading back into
>the recreational drug thread again ;-)
>
>bill
>
Fortunately, my lawyers tell me that if I just apologize and beg
forgiveness, they won't kick me off the list! :-)
PS -- You wouldn't happen to have any notions about what that message
actually means, would you? Just curious ...
Don Rowe
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 15:54:40 -0500
From: "Julie Z. Webb"
Subject: Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ!
At 02:56 PM 8/5/98 -0400, Sue wrote:
>Look over the list below. The Yarn Kollection [Mendi]
>isn't on it, yet I know she is coming. From what I understand Marsha,
>Julie, and Kakki aren't attending but wanted to be in on the scoop. If you
>are on this list and also being voyeuristic, please write so we can compile
>a list of those who are definitely attending.
Hi Sue,
I had signed up for the Garden list when I had first heard about it, but
since then, discovered we were able to extend our mountain home to include
that weekend, so Im definately not attending and would like my name off of
the list. All of these Garden posts are making me too darn envious. You
guys are going to have a blast! JulieZW
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:53:52 -0700
From: "Kakki"
Subject: Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ!
Sue wrote:
> Look over the list below. The Yarn Kollection [Mendi]
> isn't on it, yet I know she is coming. From what I understand Marsha,
> Julie, and Kakki aren't attending but wanted to be in on the scoop. If you
> are on this list and also being voyeuristic, please write so we can compile
> a list of those who are definitely attending.
I initially had planned to go to the Garden but other events have intervened.
Barring a miracle (like winning the Lotto and not worrying about work duties
any more), I won't be attending so you can remove my name from the list,
although I'd still like to receive updates in case of miracles! You all will
have such a fantastic time. Is anyone going to hook up a connection to the
list from the JMDL RV Command Center? It would be great to hear "live"
updates!
Kakki
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:09:46 -0700
From: "Kakki"
Subject: Re: More Stuff
Hi Wally,
It's good to hear from you and that your treatments have not been too terrible
so far.
You wrote:
> I do feel that the connection is definitely evolving and improving. It was
Joni herself who asked that
> folks from the Internet be invited to attend the filming of her concerts
> in Burbank on May 29th and 30th. To me, this makes it clear that now that
> she's aware that we exist, she's reaching out to us.
Thanks for confirming that we do indeed exist!
> Croz just e-mailed me with his best wishes for my health.
Very cool.
Kakki
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:11:41 -0700
From: "Kakki"
Subject: Happy Birthday (NJC)
Happy (belated 7/31) Birthday to fellow Leo Steve Dulson. Keep on roaring!
Love, Kakki
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 16:42:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)
Subject: Joni paperback book auction
Joni Mitchell Paperback Book Seller: stewartsfolly@webtv.net Starts:
07/29/98 18:25:45 PDT Ends: 08/05/98 18:25:45 PDT Price: Currently
$31.00 To bid the item, go to:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=23359354
Item Description:
"Joni Mitchell" by Leonore Fleischer
copyright Flash Books,1976.Contains 79 pages of articles and b/w
photos.Has slight wear on cover.Rare!Buyer pays $2.00 postage.
gdave
NP: Tape of the Day - 8/5/67
Jefferson Airplane: O'Keefe Centre, Toronto, CAN.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
DaveBase @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/2349/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 16:01:01 -0500
From: Mark Domyancich
Subject: Re: JC/Garden stuff - Short Now
I have a fantastic idea! Maybe we can rig up one of those webcams to
reporter Sue McNamara's computer? We could be at the Garden without leaving
the privacy of our own homes, man!
____________________________________
| Mark Domyancich |
| Harpua@revealed.net |
| http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ |
|__________________________________|
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 17:39:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)
Subject: Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ!
I also would like to buy Kate a beer! Her enthusiasm, as well as Sue's,
is contagiously addictive. Judging from all the "extras" floating
around, just this list, I'm sure "extras" will be plentiful day of show.
My plans have changed, in that a wedding my wife and I were to attend
has been called off! So now I am free to leave bright and early and be
there for Donavon or Melanie, or whoever, not to mention meeting all of
you for the first time. God, I hope it doesn't rain like in '69 & '94!
EVERYBODY, NORAINNORAINNORAINNORAINNORAIN!
gdave
NP: Tape of the Day - 8/5/93
Hot Tuna: Iron Horse Saloon,
Northhampton, MA.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
DaveBase @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/2349/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 02:10:05 -0700
From: jussi
Subject: virtual JM gathering
The Kate Bush fanzine HomeGround organizes annual(?) conventions in
England. Here is an extract from an after-party message by
P.D.FitzGerald-Morris, editor of Homeground, to "Love-Hounds" (KB
mailing list):
> Subject: HomeGround Glastonbury '98 - A Great Success!
> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:05:27 +0100
>
> A very big thanks to all those who came to Glastonbury on Lammas Sunday. We
> think we got *the* English Summer this year.
>
> Thanks to...
> ... The Westbrook film crew & actors (Producers of *The Pink Mules*) puffed
> their way to the top of the Tor, and made a late but large entrance. Later
> in the pub, Geoff told us they had offered him a part. Ooh-er! Potty Pam
> was under the impression it was a Joni Mitchell gathering! Thanks to Paul
> Thomas and the crowd from Bournemouth...
Poor Pam... she should watch her pot consumption... Yes, I've posted
JMDL subscription info to "Love-Hounds".
- --jussi
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 98 16:28:43 -0700
From: Wally Breese
Subject: Lyrics to TTT
Hi everybody,
I've added the lyrics for the three remaining songs from Joni's next
album, Taming the Tiger, that were missing from the JM.com Lyrics page.
These three tunes are "Lead Balloon," "No Apologies," and "Stay In Touch."
Here are the beginning lines for each song:
- ------------------------------------
LEAD BALLOON
"Kiss my ass!" I said
and I threw my drink
It came a-trickling
Down his business suit
Must be the Irish blood
Fight before you think...
- ----------------------
NO APOLOGIES
The general offered
No apologies
He said "The soldiers erred in judgement
They should have hired a hooker..."
- -------------------------------------
STAY IN TOUCH
This is really something
People will be envious
But our roles aren't clear
So we musn't rush
Still, we're burning brightly...
- ---------------------------
For the complete lyrics to these new songs, go to:
http://www.JoniMitchell.com/jonihome.html#Lyrics4
Enjoy!
Later,
Wally
The Joni Mitchell Homepage
http://www.JoniMitchell.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 20:30:31 EDT
From: DKasc13293@aol.com
Subject: Speculation, who's to know?
Well now, who is the man in a business suit with a drink dripping down it?
As per Lead Balloon.
Who's the man who wielded the power to stop the airplay and the star maker
machinery for Joni long ago?
It's not Geffen, because David is definately a denim executive. Jan Werner,
possibly?
I know Joni would hate this question, because it's like saying Not to Blame is
"about" Jackson Browne. I know the song has a much more universal message.
I'm just feeling petty at the moment.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 17:44:25 -0700
From: Leslie Mixon
Subject: Other Songwriters
I'm not sure if this has come up on prior lists, but I'm curious about how
Joni would sound recording songs made famous by other singer/songwriters.
For instance, I'd love to hear her sing Laura Nyro's, "Emmie."
So, if you were to design an album of Joni performing songs by other
songwriters, what would it include?
PS: Any Maryland JoniListas out there?
Leslie
Leslie Mixon
stevem@cruzio.com
http://www.cruzio.com/~stevem
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 18:10:26 -0700
From: "Kakki"
Subject: Re: Speculation, who's to know?
Duane wrote:
> Well now, who is the man in a business suit with a drink dripping down it?
> As per Lead Balloon.
>
> Who's the man who wielded the power to stop the airplay and the star maker
> machinery for Joni long ago?
>
> It's not Geffen, because David is definately a denim executive. Jan Werner,
> possibly?
Oooh, Duane, they don't say "it's his town" about Jann Wenner, but they always
say it about Mr. G.
"It's his town, and that went down like a Lead Balloon, Lead, Lead, Lead
Balloon"
Oooh, Joni has guts....
Kakki
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:58:00 EDT
From: DKasc13293@aol.com
Subject: Re: Speculation, who's to know?
Oh really?
God bless her!
Who says it's David's town?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 23:16:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Melchert
Subject: [none]
Even though I may not attend the concert at Woodstock, I'm thinking of
inviting fans down to stay here if they're in transit through New York and
need a free place to stay. I'm in Queens and easy to drive/park.
A good cook. Hell I'll do some "fresh salmon frying and the tide rolling in"
for you. That weekend is my 40th birthday tho I tell everyone I'm eternally
39. Big apartment here and I can sleep several but you may have to sleep on
the floor.
Am I being silly or is it just too much work to wait hours and hours to see
Ms. Mitchell for two hours?
I just couldn't take Donovan, et. al. for the rest of the time, but if
someone wants to accompany me, message me!
Love you all. John
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 19:00:25 -0700
From: "Kakki"
Subject: Re: Speculation, who's to know?
Duane asked:
> Who says it's David's town?
Ahem....EVERYONE in David's town!
Kakki (feeling nervous)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:24:16 EDT
From: DKasc13293@aol.com
Subject: Re: Speculation, well who's to know?
From Free Man in Paris to Lead Balloon, go figure?
The evolution of a personal/business relationship
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 22:37:42 +0000
From: BarBearUh
Subject: record companies & corporations (minimal JC)
Deb Thornton wrote:
"and Dar's sales are continually increasing (she
tours incessantly, and she insists that she doesn't want to be famous
because she's in it for the long haul), and i don't think the same is true
for Mitchell right now. I don't know---did the Grammy boost her sales?"
joni's complained about how the grammies didn't boost her sales. i take this
with a grain of salt. i'm sure it had some affect on the sales of TI, just
not enough to make it a money maker. joni's records do have a shelf life,
though, and i imagine it will eventually pay.
Deb: "The last time i talked to Dar (April 19), she said that the pressure from
her record company to be more commercial was intense, but she is sticking
to her guns: she doesn't want to be famous. She wants to be around for a
long time, and that is not what happens to commercial artists. At the same
time, if they told her she wasn't selling enough records, she's probably
take her master tapes elsewhere. She has the option to do that because she
is an independent artist. Joni might say, yeah, and as such, she has the
option to starve. Relatively speaking."
it's been interesting to watch what's been happening with jane siberry. she
was signed with warner bros and had lackluster sales. she went into business
for herself, starting off running things with a lot of the same personnel she
learned to have from "the music business", ie, a lot of superfluous people
with salaries. she went broke rather quickly, and now is running her career
entirely on her own. she answers the phone, takes the orders, licks the
stamps. many of her fans feel this is a shame, as she is not spending the
majority of her time "being creative". i personally think it's one of the
coolest things that could happen. things may be a bit tough now, but as she
builds up a catalogue that she owns outright, i think things will get easier,
and she will have TOTAL control over what she does and doesn't do. in the
meantime, i think it brings the performer down to earth to not have layers of
people and bullshit around her. she's much closer to her fans now, and is
living a life closer to what the rest of us experience. if joni decided to
truly own herself tomorrow, i'd be a happy camper. she'd have to make some
huge adjustments in how she works, but i think it's feasible.
Deb: "True, the record company pays for Joni's expensive production time (true?)"
my understanding is this: the record company lays out money for an artist,
which is then recouped via sales. this is how joni never makes money on her
records. first the expense has to be paid back - this usually includes not
only studio time, but mastering, pressing, packaging, et al. once that money
is made, THEN the artist gets to take home their small percentage. so, if the
records by an artist never make any money, the company loses their investment
(and usually drops the artist like a hot potato). if the record does make
money, the artist pays for its production and the company keeps a huge
majority of the profits.
Deb: "The internet has leveled the playing field significantly in the
last few years by providing a free "commercial" market---in a way, i'm
advertising for Dar even as i type---where ads aren't as expensive as they
are in, say, Rolling Stone, and artists can be put before an increasing
number of people on a daily basis. Sound samples and little videos and
five-minute interviews available on the web have the potential to reach a
lot of people, and the investment is minimal."
which is why i think jane's got it right. why be pressured into making a
"sellable" album? if you're truly an artist, it's gotta be more important to
make good music than to be rich and famous. of course, one must eat. but if
you're the real thing, you'll do ok, and i think it's a lot more satifsying to
go the ani difranco route and not work for the man.
Deb: "I guess I seem ungrateful
with my teeth sunk in the hand
that brings me things
i really can't give up just yet."
And perhaps she still can't give them up entirely.
ah, therein lies the rub. and on a similar note...
Mark Domyancich:
"I meant to post this a while back, but I read a bit of info on the 'future'
of ICQ that I think everyone should know about. Has anybody heard that AOL
bought Mirabilis, the guys who make ICQ? Well, they did and it seems that
AOL is going to charge for the use of the ICQ program. Just how much? About
$20 a month!"
this kind of crap has been eating away at me for years now. i hate CVS. i
hate Best Buy. i even hate Tower Records. this is something that we should
all be majorly concerned with. while we all tool around in our gas-guzzling
vans and trucks, taking in our stock dividends, shopping where it's big and
convenient, the quality and focus of our lives is suffering. CVS and Home
Depot are not more convenient. cheaper, yes, but at the cost of our own
valuable time, the commodity we should all cherish the most. when my bank got
bought by another bank, did i get something out of it? well, maybe my mutual
fund made a few cents. in the meantime, my minimum balance for free checking
went up, my fees went up, the service got worse, and i did not get a more
convenient location out of it. if we don't watch it, in the future there will
be no nations, just corporations, and we will all be working for the man.
barbara, in search of all things indy
np: heritage, new interpretations of american roots music
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:54:59 -0500
From: Mark Domyancich
Subject: Update: J-Cards/Mac People
Hi guys,
I have updated the j-card for TT7 with Simon's correction. The link is:
http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/tape3_of_5.sit.hqx
I am going to keep this link up until tomorrow, then I will add it to the
bundled TT7 j-cards.
Thanks!
____________________________________
| Mark Domyancich |
| Harpua@revealed.net |
| http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ |
|__________________________________|
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 19:49:18 -0700
From: "Kakki"
Subject: Re: record companies & corporations (now JC)
Barbara wrote:
> my understanding is this: the record company lays out money for an artist,
> which is then recouped via sales. this is how joni never makes money on her
> records. first the expense has to be paid back - this usually includes not
> only studio time, but mastering, pressing, packaging, et al. once that money
> is made, THEN the artist gets to take home their small percentage. so, if
the
> records by an artist never make any money, the company loses their investment
> (and usually drops the artist like a hot potato). if the record does make
> money, the artist pays for its production and the company keeps a huge
> majority of the profits.
A great post and good explanation of why Joni hasn't made money on her records
in recent years. What Barbara explains is the standard deal given to music
artists. The only way artists make any money is if they sell gazillions of
units and, more importantly, get lots of royalties from radio play. That's why
Joni got rich on Both Sides Now and not Turbulent Indigo. Joni is probably
understandably angry that her past record company did not give her the proper
promotion and positioning. However, the promotional costs are always high and
just add one more layer of cost that must be recouped. So it is a Catch 22
situation for the bottom-liners. Maybe she wanted her old friend Geffen to
give her more of a break. And that is also understandable because she
certainly helped make him wealthy in the old days. He acted like he was doing
her a favor by keeping her on the label for years because her records lost
money. But record companies constantly sign artists who don't recoup and they
write off the losses on their corporate taxes as a matter of routine. I
understand the business philosophy, but also feel partial to Joni's argument
with Geffen.
Kakki
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 23:50:18 -0400
From: Michael Yarbrough
Subject: RE: record companies & corporations (now NJC)
Kakki wrote:
<<>>
What I don't understand is how the artist ultimately pays the
entire cost of making the recording (economic *and* artistic),
and somehow the record company ends up owning the
recording, with the artist left with no assets other than the
written songs if they're lucky.
Is there any other standard financial arrangement in the
Western world that resembles this nonsense? In terms of
services provided, the record companies are really consultants
and banks--they take charge of the nuts and bolts of promoting
and distributing a record and provide the upfront cash (on loan)
to bankroll it. But in terms of the financial arrangement, they
employ the artist and take possession of the intellectual property
produced under their employ. How did these get mixed up with
each other? It seems entirely illogical to me, and ripe for
legislative reform if the RIAA weren't so powerful.
This is where Ani DiFranco comes in--a very high profile case
of someone who not only found an audience for her artistry on
her own, but who *owns* her *own* work after all is said and
done, as just reward for *her* creativity, vision, and hard work.
I find it hard to believe that her example will not be followed.
And once more and more artists realize they don't have to do
business as usual, business as usual becomes an endangered
species. I can't wait for the day when record companies are
forced to compete for artists instead of vice versa.
So to Ani and the Artist and Jane--you go!
- --Michael
NP: Matraca Berg, _Sunday Morning to Saturday Night_ (who
lost her recording contract when a certain company closed their
Nashville branch)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 02:49:17 EDT
From: Bolvangar@aol.com
Subject: Seed (no pun intended?) for new parody
Hi all,
Today at my clerical temp job (at the local Library District finance office)
I filed an invoice from the "Last Chance Lawn" Service --
....in the tyranny of a lawn goodbye?
They bicker in the tall grass
Blame starts up the lawnmower?
I'll let our many talented parodists take it from there....
- --David
NP: Igor Stravinsky, _Les Noces_, the Dmitri Pokrovsky Ensemble -- WOW!!!!!
------------------------------
End of JMDL Digest V3 #292
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Siquomb, isn't she?