From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #292 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, August 6 1998 Volume 03 : Number 292 The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The Waking (now JC) [Bolvangar@aol.com] More Stuff [Wally Breese ] A Day in the Garden/Melanie [Medric Faulkner ] Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ! [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Maximum Bob (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] MOA [Steve Dulson ] Stan/Garnet/Gene (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: j files (fwd) - NJC [LRFye@aol.com] Re: something very interesting (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] Re: Joni dream 8.4.98 [TerryM2442@aol.com] Joni blurb at Infoseek [Bounced Message ] Circle Game Question [Bounced Message ] Re: MOA [Bill Dollinger ] Re: Joni dream 8.4.98 (NJC) [Marsha ] Today in Joni History - August 6 [Today in Joni History ] Joni on my radio [Marsha ] Re: Joni blurb at Infoseek ["Don Rowe" ] referers (njc) [Bill Dollinger ] Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ! [Sue ] Misc. 3 topics [Diana Duncan ] Re: referers (njc) ["Don Rowe" ] Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ! ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Re: More Stuff ["Kakki" ] Happy Birthday (NJC) ["Kakki" ] Joni paperback book auction [kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)] Re: JC/Garden stuff - Short Now [Mark Domyancich ] Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ! [kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)] virtual JM gathering [jussi ] Lyrics to TTT [Wally Breese ] Speculation, who's to know? [DKasc13293@aol.com] Other Songwriters [Leslie Mixon ] Re: Speculation, who's to know? ["Kakki" ] Re: Speculation, who's to know? [DKasc13293@aol.com] [none] [John Melchert ] Re: Speculation, who's to know? ["Kakki" ] Re: Speculation, well who's to know? [DKasc13293@aol.com] record companies & corporations (minimal JC) [BarBearUh ] Re: record companies & corporations (now JC) ["Kakki" ] RE: record companies & corporations (now NJC) [Michael Yarbrough > I'll give it a shot. "Shaking" (in "this shaking keeps me steady") could be interpreted as something like a release of tension, which can in turn definitely be soothing and steadying. I'm not sure I know about "Light takes the Tree," but it is a rich image -- and, interestingly, a religious symbol (the cross of the Crucifixion is sometimes called the Tree, which Roethke capitalizes). To me these lines are important in a larger context as examples of the poem's use of paradox ("We think by feeling"; "I wake to sleep") and contrast ("the lowly worm climbs up a winding stair"). I think the idea at the heart of this poem is the paradox that sometimes what defines us and haunts us ("And is near"), as much as what we are, is what we are not ("what falls away is always"; "I feel my fate in what I cannot fear") -- the things past that we left behind (that "fell away"), or left undone, or opportunities missed. And that sometimes we learn what we are by learning what we are not: "I learn by going where I have to go." Some of the lines here remind me significantly of "Amelia" -- compare "I learn by going where I have to go" and "...but who can tell us how?" with "People will tell you where they've gone/they'll tell you where to go/but till you get there yourself you'll never really know..." And both make use of ground and air metaphors. And of course Joni is Our Lady of Duality -- and paradox is certainly a kind of duality. The Roethke poem, in its terseness and alliteration (feel/fate/fear; worm/winding) and in rich images like "Light takes the Tree," reminds me also of Old English (Anglo-Saxon) poetry, which I love. And I've been struck before by parallels between _Hejira_, in which to me Joni seems drawn -- almost against her will -- for reasons she can't understand, to the refuge of the roads ("the strange pillows of my wanderlust"); and the Old English poem "The Seafarer," in which the narrator is drawn to the sea despite its harshness. Thanks for posting this poem. I love it -- I wasn't familiar with it before. As I read it even the first time I heard music for it in my head -- especially for the last line of the stanzas -- the poem really grabbed me. It screams "a cappella" to me, a really stark setting, but I'm sure that's only one of many possible interpretations. Hope I haven't sounded pretentious here. - --David P.S. I never received Doug's post that Fred quoted with The Waking -- am I missing some posts? NP: Sandy Denny, _The Northstar Grassman and the Ravens_ ("....So into the city the river did run....Because of the architect the buildings fell down/Smothered or drowned all the seeds which were sown/I wish I were somewhere not in this town/It may be the ocean next time around....") ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 98 04:41:39 -0700 From: Wally Breese Subject: More Stuff Hi everybody, As of today, tickets for the first two days of the "Day In The Garden" festival are STILL available for the special deal of two for the price of one. So if you haven't bought your tickets yet, what are you waiting for? 8-) I want to respond to the postings of Julie and Kakki concerning Joni and her management's relationship with us fans on the Internet. While it's true that in the past, I often got frustrated with the fact that we were ignored by the business people, I do feel that the connection is definitely evolving and improving. It was Joni herself who asked that folks from the Internet be invited to attend the filming of her concerts in Burbank on May 29th and 30th. To me, this makes it clear that now that she's aware that we exist, she's reaching out to us. Do I still believe that the JM Internet Community is being under-utilized? Yes, of course. But even though the blossoming of the relationship may not seem swift enough sometimes, it's moving along quite satisfactorily in my opinion. There's recently been some discussion about the CPR album. I just got my copy and I think it's a great-sounding record with the unmistakeable voice and songs of David Crosby along with some beautiful lead vocals and songwriting duties by his son, James Raymond. And the harmonies! When Jeff Pevar adds his vocal to Raymond's and Crosby's, it's magical. Croz just e-mailed me with his best wishes for my health. On the subject of my health, I've completed the first of three chemotherapy treatments, spending an hour a day for 5 days with an IV drip of Leukevoran in my arm, followed by a slow shot into the IV of 5-FU, the chemo drug with which I'm being treated. Up until the third day, I had no physical reaction to the treatments but then I had one bout of vomiting followed by a few days where I had frequent feelings of nausea. Another symptom I had was fatigue, which got worse and worse as the week wore on. For 4 or 5 days after the last day of treatment, I still felt tired and out-of-it but then I perked up and started to feel relatively normal. Now I have two more weeks before another 5 days of treatment #2. I'm going to enjoy the time off. Later, Wally The Joni Mitchell Homepage http://www.JoniMitchell.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 05:20:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Medric Faulkner Subject: A Day in the Garden/Melanie Melanie's homepage says that she is on the bill with Joni for Saturday yet there is no mention of her anywhere else that I can see. Does anyone know what time she will perform of if maybe she is at a different site or something. Medric Faulkner Megg56@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 08:42:03 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ! Kate Tarasenko wrote: > Sorry to take up soooo much bandwith with this, That's what the list is for! Have fun. I'm jealous. But can't give my parents a 50th wedding anniversary dinner AND see Joni in the same year. Jerry np: kd lang - Shadowland ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:15:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: Maximum Bob (NJC) Did anyone see the show Maximum Bob last night on ABC? I am not a big fan of television, but this was so well crafted - and quirky, but not so quirky as to turn me off (probably because even tho it was far removed from reality in many ways, it followed its own logic.) It starred Beau Bridges and will be running for 6 more weeks. I highly recommend that you catch it on Tuesday nights. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 09:25:15 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Maximum Bob (NJC) Bill Dollinger wrote: > Did anyone see the show Maximum Bob last > night on ABC? I am not a big fan of television, > but this was so well crafted - and quirky, but > not so quirky as to turn me off (probably because > even tho it was far removed from reality in many > ways, it followed its own logic.) I think it is going to be a big hit. Of course, Carl Hiason is is a favorite here in South Florida. Jerry np: Melissa Etheridige - Yes I Am ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 08:03:04 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: MOA Mark asked: >Isn't the Temple University concert on TT7 the complete MOA? MOA the tour, or MOA the album? The album was mostly recorded in LA. Were the setlists for all the MOA shows the same? I'd ask myself, but I wasn't a Swami back then... ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 07:58:42 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Stan/Garnet/Gene (NJC) Brian Gross wrote: >I was introduced to Stan's music by Gene Shay and his Sunday night folk show. >And thanks, Steve Dulson, for the url of the website devoted to Stan and >his music. http://www.summerfolk.org/popdown.html You're welcome! As I probably mentioned at the time, relentless name dropper that I am, Gene Shay was behind me in the ATM line at Folk Alliance in Memphis, and we got to exchange a few words. Nice guy. FA/Memphis was also where I saw Garnet Rogers play. Next FA is in Albuquerque next February, BTW. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:32:14 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: j files (fwd) - NJC Helen quoted Richard's response to her request for 3 hours of Joni on the air: > Joni Mitchell is a great idea. No reason for not doing it yet. I have all the time in the world to get through artists on The J Files. There's no rush... No reason for not doing it YET? What kind of response is that? There's NO RUSH? The man is obviously not a great fan of Joni's ... > And if you have a problem with Brian Wilson and The Beach Boys being on the program, maybe you should listen as much to some of their albums as you obviously have to Joni. Helen, I don't mean to let the air out of your balloon ... Best of luck in getting the J Files to play 3 hours of Joni ... certainly it should happen. I'm wondering about the backhanded nature of Richard's reply, though ... And -- with apologies to those JMDLers who like them -- I can't tolerate even 3 seconds of the Beach Boys ... the thought of extended listening makes my skin crawl! Lori in San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:36:17 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: something very interesting (NJC) Hi Helen! You wrote: >c'mon support other listies! It's wonderful to have someone with your enthusiam on list! Keep your posts coming! However .. and I mean this in the kindest way ... please remember to add (NJC) to the subject line of posts that don't include something about Joni. Thanks ... Lori in San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:40:55 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni dream 8.4.98 Yoni, Youchh did a vonderful job, essept four von ting. Yourchh accent- it needs vork. So, Yoni, vat you are doing aftur vork tonight? Vouldt you like to see my new etchings? Dr.SigMundegreen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 09:45:52 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Joni blurb at Infoseek Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 10:43:56 -0400 From: Deb Messling Infoseek has a site devoted to A Day in the Garden. The Joni page includes very nice writeups on the Wally and Les sites, a Live Chat feature and - get this - an "Ask the Artist" form. Do y'all think Joni will answer questions?? URL is http://concert.infoseek.com/jmitchell.html Deb Messling Internet Services Librarian Bergen County Cooperative Library System Hackensack, New Jersey http://www.bccls.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 10:29:04 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Circle Game Question Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 11:36:35 -0400 From: "Perroni, Stephen" Does anyone remember a movie made within the last ten years called "Married To It"? I sort of remember it starring Mary Stewart Masterson and Cybil Shepard (maybe). In the last scene there was an elementary school play where the kids All sang "The Circle Game". Let me know if I'm on the right track with the movie title!!! I was with an old friend of mine recently who reminded me of a grade school play we were in and the whole class sang Both Sides Now. We thought we were so cool in our polyester leisure suits with silk flowered shirts and dock sider shoes. Wish we had video cams back in 1975 to record such "vintage" stuff!! steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:28:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: Re: MOA Temple University is not MOA, but I believe from the same tour--- Simon? Along with versions of the songs performed on MOA, it also includes great interplay between joni and the audience, a story about Spock on Star Trek that is priceless (tho she does call him Dr. Spock)- and live versions of Barangrill, Twisted, Trouble Child, Down To You and Help Me. Long live tape trees!!! Bill On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Steve Dulson wrote: > Mark asked: > > >Isn't the Temple University concert on TT7 the complete MOA? > > MOA the tour, or MOA the album? The album was mostly recorded in LA. > Were the setlists for all the MOA shows the same? I'd ask myself, > but I wasn't a Swami back then... > > > ############################################################## > Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com > "The Tinker's Own" > http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html > "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" > http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 12:30:05 -0400 From: Marsha Subject: Re: Joni dream 8.4.98 (NJC) TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: > > Yoni, > > Youchh did a vonderful job, essept four von ting. Yourchh accent- it needs > vork. Siggy, Babe! How ya doin'? I'll leave the Austrian (Hi, Marian!) accent to you. Just think of mine as having a Bronx-like sound to it. I like dreams where I can cut to the chase... that's my style. > So, Yoni, vat you are doing aftur vork tonight? Vouldt you like to see > my new etchings? Bring 'em on!!! We could Rorschach the night away... ;-D Yur pal Yoni Yung ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 12:35:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - August 6 1965: Joni performs at the Mariposa Folk Festival, Ontario. In the program it read: "Joni Anderson - Joni is a relatively new performer on the local folk music scene. She began her singing career in 1964 with an appearance at The Depression in Calgary and The Yardbird Suite in Edmonton. After gaining acceptance in Western Canada, Joni decided to move east and seek her fortune in Toronto. Since her arrival last fall, she has enjoyed performances at several coffee houses--The Bohemian Embassy, The New Gate of Cleve, and the Underground, to name a few. Joni is also noted for playing the tipple--an eight-string instrument slightly larger than the ukelele." A picture of Joni from the program: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Mariposa.html 1994: Today's Calgary Herald features an article covering Joni's appearance at the Edmonton Folk Festival: "I had poor health for most of the '80s," said Mitchell, sucking on cigarette after cigarette in a stifling hot tent behind the festival's main stage. Every decade I have to go a few rounds with death, ya know? I'm a polio survivor. There's a thing called post-polio syndrome. And I have an allergy to air conditioning, so a lot of flying brings on strange symptoms. Flying, which heavy touring requires, had to be held to a minimum." Read the full article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/cal-herald-940806.htm - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 13:36:03 -0400 From: Marsha Subject: Joni on my radio Our NPR-affiliated jazz station just played Joni's "How Do You Stop". Nice. Marsha, not-so-much-in-the-sticks-here ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 10:41:11 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Joni blurb at Infoseek Blast and darn! FormMail sent me some cryptic psycho-babble error message about reconfiguing my server "@referers" ... whatever THAT means ... which is basically I don't get to submit a question. I guess somebody else will have to try. Thanks for the pointer though, Deb! Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:50:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: referers (njc) On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Don Rowe wrote: > Blast and darn! FormMail sent me some cryptic psycho-babble error > message about reconfiguing my server "@referers" ... whatever THAT means Oh no, looks like we are heading back into the recreational drug thread again ;-) bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:56:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Subject: Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ! Gardeners and listers, Just wanted to thank Kate personally for all that she has done to organize and drum up excitement for this event. Kate, I will be the first one in line to buy you a beer! I am thinking about making a banner to hang on chairs if anyone is bringing chairs. Is anyone other than Don making a banner for the concert? The garden page states there is absolutely no food or drink to be brought into the concert area. Is that a challenge I hear? I am thinking about a contest...No not the kind of contest they had on Seinfeld, a contest to see who can smuggle in the most contraband. Is anyone game? Also wanted to thank Don for setting up a command post somewhere in the parking area. We should all try and touch base there sometime before and certainly after the concert. I am hoping to leave a cooler full of refreshments there for all to partake in. Look over the list below. The Yarn Kollection [Mendi] isn't on it, yet I know she is coming. From what I understand Marsha, Julie, and Kakki aren't attending but wanted to be in on the scoop. If you are on this list and also being voyeuristic, please write so we can compile a list of those who are definitely attending. If you aren't on here, then what are you waiting for??? >LRFye@aol.com (Lori Fye in San Antonio) >HEJIRA27@webtv.net (Gray Douglas) >scam@freeway.net (Sue Cameron [Suze]) >music@bryanthomas.com (Bryan Thomas, or is it Thomas Bryan??) >docnurse@VoyagerOnline.net (Marsha -- watchin' it from the wings??) >djp@dca.net (???) >kb420@webtv.net (Gr8ful Dave) >sem8@cornell.edu (Sue McNamara) >jzw@visint.com (Julie Z. Webb) >Kay_Ashley@ars.aon.com (Kay Ashley) >kakkib@att.net (Kakki - sure like to see you!! ) >Fluke_s@email.msn.com (Don Fluke, AKA Captain Tailgate [snap-to-salute!]) >queenaim@msn.com (Amy) >kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant) >messling@enter.net (Deb Messling/Fred Walzenfree !^) >mprisco@dreamscape.com (Margaret Prisco) >ejaimes@neuwirth-research.com (Eric) >Robbert@vansprang.demon.nl (Robbert in Holland) >luvart@snet.net (Heather) >kwong@bev.etn.com (Kai Wong) >Chilihead2@aol.com (Brian Mansfield) >JAN201@aol.com (Jan) >megg56@yahoo.com (Medric Faulkner from Mississippi) >briangross@rocketmail.com (Brian Gross) >michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net (Michael Paz, back from Honduras, but not going??) >netgirl@ctos.com (and me, the chirp!) As the day draws near I am basking in the glow of reuniting with old JMDL friends Don, Heather, Mendi, Kenny and Brian Gross and looking forward to meeting list legends Sue McNamara and Deb Messling, as well as the rest of the individuals I have come to think of as my extended family. Ten days and counting... Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 14:10:12 -0500 From: Diana Duncan Subject: Misc. 3 topics I've been busy with the last of summer school but had to comment on a few posts. At 01:04 PM 8/3/1998 -0600, Today in Joni History wrote: >1979: Joni performs at the Oklahoma City Zoo Amphitheatre. Joni's summer Now here is a place and concert I could get to! 4 hour drive only. In 1979 I was soooo out of the loop. We had moved from San Diego to a farm in southern Missouri a town of 250 people. We were living in a trailer on my (now ex) in-laws land. I had two little toddlers and the only radio stations we could pick up were country. Talk about hicksville! What I would give for Joni to give a concert in Oklahoma City now!!!!!! cul wrote: >like most guitarists...i have to keep my left hand completely nailess and my >right fully armed. Having played the violin from 8 years old I did the same thing. Actually I bit my nails. Then when I became a budding teenager and wanted sexy long nails (like Marsha's) I couldn't have any but the thumb on my left hand and 2 fingers on my right. (had to hold the bow) So I never quit biting my nails. After I quit playing, for a while I did the acrylic nails too. But have gone natural lately (still bite them). At 10:14 AM 7/29/1998 -0500, Julie wrote: >All of my life I have sung to myself, talked out loud/read out loud to >myself etc When I was a child my parents would creep into my bedroom >to see who was visiting---only to find me "thinking out loud." I don't >think Im insane, but who knows...maybe some of you might call it that....I >don't talk out loud to myself while in public, but you may catch me singing >softly while walking down the street. I do this. I've learned in my education classes that some people learn better if they can speak it aloud to themselves. However, I don't think that is the problem with me! I just keep myself company where ever I am. My daughter will catch me and tell me that I really sound a little crazy. Ask me if I care. This morning a little bit of "Roses Blue" came into my head while taking a shower "I think of tears, I think of rain on shingles I think of rain, I think of roses blue I think of Rose, my heart begins to tremble To see the place she's lately gotten to," Don't you just love how she says tremble.. really gets the mood across. Of course the words in my head weren't exactly right at the time. And what's weird is that I haven't heard that album for a *long* time. All I have it on is vinal. Has that ever happened to one of you??? Diana, (does talking to your cats count as talking to yourself?) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 12:32:38 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: referers (njc) >On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Don Rowe wrote: > >> Blast and darn! FormMail sent me some cryptic psycho-babble error >> message about reconfiguing my server "@referers" ... whatever THAT means > >Oh no, looks like we are heading back into >the recreational drug thread again ;-) > >bill > Fortunately, my lawyers tell me that if I just apologize and beg forgiveness, they won't kick me off the list! :-) PS -- You wouldn't happen to have any notions about what that message actually means, would you? Just curious ... Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 15:54:40 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ! At 02:56 PM 8/5/98 -0400, Sue wrote: >Look over the list below. The Yarn Kollection [Mendi] >isn't on it, yet I know she is coming. From what I understand Marsha, >Julie, and Kakki aren't attending but wanted to be in on the scoop. If you >are on this list and also being voyeuristic, please write so we can compile >a list of those who are definitely attending. Hi Sue, I had signed up for the Garden list when I had first heard about it, but since then, discovered we were able to extend our mountain home to include that weekend, so Im definately not attending and would like my name off of the list. All of these Garden posts are making me too darn envious. You guys are going to have a blast! JulieZW ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:53:52 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ! Sue wrote: > Look over the list below. The Yarn Kollection [Mendi] > isn't on it, yet I know she is coming. From what I understand Marsha, > Julie, and Kakki aren't attending but wanted to be in on the scoop. If you > are on this list and also being voyeuristic, please write so we can compile > a list of those who are definitely attending. I initially had planned to go to the Garden but other events have intervened. Barring a miracle (like winning the Lotto and not worrying about work duties any more), I won't be attending so you can remove my name from the list, although I'd still like to receive updates in case of miracles! You all will have such a fantastic time. Is anyone going to hook up a connection to the list from the JMDL RV Command Center? It would be great to hear "live" updates! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:09:46 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: More Stuff Hi Wally, It's good to hear from you and that your treatments have not been too terrible so far. You wrote: > I do feel that the connection is definitely evolving and improving. It was Joni herself who asked that > folks from the Internet be invited to attend the filming of her concerts > in Burbank on May 29th and 30th. To me, this makes it clear that now that > she's aware that we exist, she's reaching out to us. Thanks for confirming that we do indeed exist! > Croz just e-mailed me with his best wishes for my health. Very cool. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:11:41 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Happy Birthday (NJC) Happy (belated 7/31) Birthday to fellow Leo Steve Dulson. Keep on roaring! Love, Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 16:42:43 -0400 (EDT) From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave) Subject: Joni paperback book auction Joni Mitchell Paperback Book Seller: stewartsfolly@webtv.net Starts: 07/29/98 18:25:45 PDT Ends:   08/05/98 18:25:45 PDT Price: Currently $31.00 To bid the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=23359354 Item Description:               "Joni Mitchell" by Leonore Fleischer copyright Flash Books,1976.Contains 79 pages of articles and b/w photos.Has slight wear on cover.Rare!Buyer pays $2.00 postage. gdave NP: Tape of the Day - 8/5/67 Jefferson Airplane: O'Keefe Centre, Toronto, CAN. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- DaveBase @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/2349/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 16:01:01 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: JC/Garden stuff - Short Now I have a fantastic idea! Maybe we can rig up one of those webcams to reporter Sue McNamara's computer? We could be at the Garden without leaving the privacy of our own homes, man! ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 17:39:19 -0400 (EDT) From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave) Subject: Re: JC/Garden stuff - long but PLEASE READ! I also would like to buy Kate a beer! Her enthusiasm, as well as Sue's, is contagiously addictive. Judging from all the "extras" floating around, just this list, I'm sure "extras" will be plentiful day of show. My plans have changed, in that a wedding my wife and I were to attend has been called off! So now I am free to leave bright and early and be there for Donavon or Melanie, or whoever, not to mention meeting all of you for the first time. God, I hope it doesn't rain like in '69 & '94! EVERYBODY, NORAINNORAINNORAINNORAINNORAIN! gdave NP: Tape of the Day - 8/5/93 Hot Tuna: Iron Horse Saloon, Northhampton, MA. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- DaveBase @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/2349/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 02:10:05 -0700 From: jussi Subject: virtual JM gathering The Kate Bush fanzine HomeGround organizes annual(?) conventions in England. Here is an extract from an after-party message by P.D.FitzGerald-Morris, editor of Homeground, to "Love-Hounds" (KB mailing list): > Subject: HomeGround Glastonbury '98 - A Great Success! > Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:05:27 +0100 > > A very big thanks to all those who came to Glastonbury on Lammas Sunday. We > think we got *the* English Summer this year. > > Thanks to... > ... The Westbrook film crew & actors (Producers of *The Pink Mules*) puffed > their way to the top of the Tor, and made a late but large entrance. Later > in the pub, Geoff told us they had offered him a part. Ooh-er! Potty Pam > was under the impression it was a Joni Mitchell gathering! Thanks to Paul > Thomas and the crowd from Bournemouth... Poor Pam... she should watch her pot consumption... Yes, I've posted JMDL subscription info to "Love-Hounds". - --jussi ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 98 16:28:43 -0700 From: Wally Breese Subject: Lyrics to TTT Hi everybody, I've added the lyrics for the three remaining songs from Joni's next album, Taming the Tiger, that were missing from the JM.com Lyrics page. These three tunes are "Lead Balloon," "No Apologies," and "Stay In Touch." Here are the beginning lines for each song: - ------------------------------------ LEAD BALLOON "Kiss my ass!" I said and I threw my drink It came a-trickling Down his business suit Must be the Irish blood Fight before you think... - ---------------------- NO APOLOGIES The general offered No apologies He said "The soldiers erred in judgement They should have hired a hooker..." - ------------------------------------- STAY IN TOUCH This is really something People will be envious But our roles aren't clear So we musn't rush Still, we're burning brightly... - --------------------------- For the complete lyrics to these new songs, go to: http://www.JoniMitchell.com/jonihome.html#Lyrics4 Enjoy! Later, Wally The Joni Mitchell Homepage http://www.JoniMitchell.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 20:30:31 EDT From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Speculation, who's to know? Well now, who is the man in a business suit with a drink dripping down it? As per Lead Balloon. Who's the man who wielded the power to stop the airplay and the star maker machinery for Joni long ago? It's not Geffen, because David is definately a denim executive. Jan Werner, possibly? I know Joni would hate this question, because it's like saying Not to Blame is "about" Jackson Browne. I know the song has a much more universal message. I'm just feeling petty at the moment. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 17:44:25 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Other Songwriters I'm not sure if this has come up on prior lists, but I'm curious about how Joni would sound recording songs made famous by other singer/songwriters. For instance, I'd love to hear her sing Laura Nyro's, "Emmie." So, if you were to design an album of Joni performing songs by other songwriters, what would it include? PS: Any Maryland JoniListas out there? Leslie Leslie Mixon stevem@cruzio.com http://www.cruzio.com/~stevem ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 18:10:26 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Speculation, who's to know? Duane wrote: > Well now, who is the man in a business suit with a drink dripping down it? > As per Lead Balloon. > > Who's the man who wielded the power to stop the airplay and the star maker > machinery for Joni long ago? > > It's not Geffen, because David is definately a denim executive. Jan Werner, > possibly? Oooh, Duane, they don't say "it's his town" about Jann Wenner, but they always say it about Mr. G. "It's his town, and that went down like a Lead Balloon, Lead, Lead, Lead Balloon" Oooh, Joni has guts.... Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:58:00 EDT From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Re: Speculation, who's to know? Oh really? God bless her! Who says it's David's town? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 23:16:23 -0400 (EDT) From: John Melchert Subject: [none] Even though I may not attend the concert at Woodstock, I'm thinking of inviting fans down to stay here if they're in transit through New York and need a free place to stay. I'm in Queens and easy to drive/park. A good cook. Hell I'll do some "fresh salmon frying and the tide rolling in" for you. That weekend is my 40th birthday tho I tell everyone I'm eternally 39. Big apartment here and I can sleep several but you may have to sleep on the floor. Am I being silly or is it just too much work to wait hours and hours to see Ms. Mitchell for two hours? I just couldn't take Donovan, et. al. for the rest of the time, but if someone wants to accompany me, message me! Love you all. John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 19:00:25 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Speculation, who's to know? Duane asked: > Who says it's David's town? Ahem....EVERYONE in David's town! Kakki (feeling nervous) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:24:16 EDT From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Re: Speculation, well who's to know? From Free Man in Paris to Lead Balloon, go figure? The evolution of a personal/business relationship ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 22:37:42 +0000 From: BarBearUh Subject: record companies & corporations (minimal JC) Deb Thornton wrote: "and Dar's sales are continually increasing (she tours incessantly, and she insists that she doesn't want to be famous because she's in it for the long haul), and i don't think the same is true for Mitchell right now. I don't know---did the Grammy boost her sales?" joni's complained about how the grammies didn't boost her sales. i take this with a grain of salt. i'm sure it had some affect on the sales of TI, just not enough to make it a money maker. joni's records do have a shelf life, though, and i imagine it will eventually pay. Deb: "The last time i talked to Dar (April 19), she said that the pressure from her record company to be more commercial was intense, but she is sticking to her guns: she doesn't want to be famous. She wants to be around for a long time, and that is not what happens to commercial artists. At the same time, if they told her she wasn't selling enough records, she's probably take her master tapes elsewhere. She has the option to do that because she is an independent artist. Joni might say, yeah, and as such, she has the option to starve. Relatively speaking." it's been interesting to watch what's been happening with jane siberry. she was signed with warner bros and had lackluster sales. she went into business for herself, starting off running things with a lot of the same personnel she learned to have from "the music business", ie, a lot of superfluous people with salaries. she went broke rather quickly, and now is running her career entirely on her own. she answers the phone, takes the orders, licks the stamps. many of her fans feel this is a shame, as she is not spending the majority of her time "being creative". i personally think it's one of the coolest things that could happen. things may be a bit tough now, but as she builds up a catalogue that she owns outright, i think things will get easier, and she will have TOTAL control over what she does and doesn't do. in the meantime, i think it brings the performer down to earth to not have layers of people and bullshit around her. she's much closer to her fans now, and is living a life closer to what the rest of us experience. if joni decided to truly own herself tomorrow, i'd be a happy camper. she'd have to make some huge adjustments in how she works, but i think it's feasible. Deb: "True, the record company pays for Joni's expensive production time (true?)" my understanding is this: the record company lays out money for an artist, which is then recouped via sales. this is how joni never makes money on her records. first the expense has to be paid back - this usually includes not only studio time, but mastering, pressing, packaging, et al. once that money is made, THEN the artist gets to take home their small percentage. so, if the records by an artist never make any money, the company loses their investment (and usually drops the artist like a hot potato). if the record does make money, the artist pays for its production and the company keeps a huge majority of the profits. Deb: "The internet has leveled the playing field significantly in the last few years by providing a free "commercial" market---in a way, i'm advertising for Dar even as i type---where ads aren't as expensive as they are in, say, Rolling Stone, and artists can be put before an increasing number of people on a daily basis. Sound samples and little videos and five-minute interviews available on the web have the potential to reach a lot of people, and the investment is minimal." which is why i think jane's got it right. why be pressured into making a "sellable" album? if you're truly an artist, it's gotta be more important to make good music than to be rich and famous. of course, one must eat. but if you're the real thing, you'll do ok, and i think it's a lot more satifsying to go the ani difranco route and not work for the man. Deb: "I guess I seem ungrateful with my teeth sunk in the hand that brings me things i really can't give up just yet." And perhaps she still can't give them up entirely. ah, therein lies the rub. and on a similar note... Mark Domyancich: "I meant to post this a while back, but I read a bit of info on the 'future' of ICQ that I think everyone should know about. Has anybody heard that AOL bought Mirabilis, the guys who make ICQ? Well, they did and it seems that AOL is going to charge for the use of the ICQ program. Just how much? About $20 a month!" this kind of crap has been eating away at me for years now. i hate CVS. i hate Best Buy. i even hate Tower Records. this is something that we should all be majorly concerned with. while we all tool around in our gas-guzzling vans and trucks, taking in our stock dividends, shopping where it's big and convenient, the quality and focus of our lives is suffering. CVS and Home Depot are not more convenient. cheaper, yes, but at the cost of our own valuable time, the commodity we should all cherish the most. when my bank got bought by another bank, did i get something out of it? well, maybe my mutual fund made a few cents. in the meantime, my minimum balance for free checking went up, my fees went up, the service got worse, and i did not get a more convenient location out of it. if we don't watch it, in the future there will be no nations, just corporations, and we will all be working for the man. barbara, in search of all things indy np: heritage, new interpretations of american roots music ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:54:59 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Update: J-Cards/Mac People Hi guys, I have updated the j-card for TT7 with Simon's correction. The link is: http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/tape3_of_5.sit.hqx I am going to keep this link up until tomorrow, then I will add it to the bundled TT7 j-cards. Thanks! ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 19:49:18 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: record companies & corporations (now JC) Barbara wrote: > my understanding is this: the record company lays out money for an artist, > which is then recouped via sales. this is how joni never makes money on her > records. first the expense has to be paid back - this usually includes not > only studio time, but mastering, pressing, packaging, et al. once that money > is made, THEN the artist gets to take home their small percentage. so, if the > records by an artist never make any money, the company loses their investment > (and usually drops the artist like a hot potato). if the record does make > money, the artist pays for its production and the company keeps a huge > majority of the profits. A great post and good explanation of why Joni hasn't made money on her records in recent years. What Barbara explains is the standard deal given to music artists. The only way artists make any money is if they sell gazillions of units and, more importantly, get lots of royalties from radio play. That's why Joni got rich on Both Sides Now and not Turbulent Indigo. Joni is probably understandably angry that her past record company did not give her the proper promotion and positioning. However, the promotional costs are always high and just add one more layer of cost that must be recouped. So it is a Catch 22 situation for the bottom-liners. Maybe she wanted her old friend Geffen to give her more of a break. And that is also understandable because she certainly helped make him wealthy in the old days. He acted like he was doing her a favor by keeping her on the label for years because her records lost money. But record companies constantly sign artists who don't recoup and they write off the losses on their corporate taxes as a matter of routine. I understand the business philosophy, but also feel partial to Joni's argument with Geffen. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 23:50:18 -0400 From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: RE: record companies & corporations (now NJC) Kakki wrote: <<>> What I don't understand is how the artist ultimately pays the entire cost of making the recording (economic *and* artistic), and somehow the record company ends up owning the recording, with the artist left with no assets other than the written songs if they're lucky. Is there any other standard financial arrangement in the Western world that resembles this nonsense? In terms of services provided, the record companies are really consultants and banks--they take charge of the nuts and bolts of promoting and distributing a record and provide the upfront cash (on loan) to bankroll it. But in terms of the financial arrangement, they employ the artist and take possession of the intellectual property produced under their employ. How did these get mixed up with each other? It seems entirely illogical to me, and ripe for legislative reform if the RIAA weren't so powerful. This is where Ani DiFranco comes in--a very high profile case of someone who not only found an audience for her artistry on her own, but who *owns* her *own* work after all is said and done, as just reward for *her* creativity, vision, and hard work. I find it hard to believe that her example will not be followed. And once more and more artists realize they don't have to do business as usual, business as usual becomes an endangered species. I can't wait for the day when record companies are forced to compete for artists instead of vice versa. So to Ani and the Artist and Jane--you go! - --Michael NP: Matraca Berg, _Sunday Morning to Saturday Night_ (who lost her recording contract when a certain company closed their Nashville branch) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 02:49:17 EDT From: Bolvangar@aol.com Subject: Seed (no pun intended?) for new parody Hi all, Today at my clerical temp job (at the local Library District finance office) I filed an invoice from the "Last Chance Lawn" Service -- ....in the tyranny of a lawn goodbye? They bicker in the tall grass Blame starts up the lawnmower? I'll let our many talented parodists take it from there.... - --David NP: Igor Stravinsky, _Les Noces_, the Dmitri Pokrovsky Ensemble -- WOW!!!!! ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #292 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?