From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest)
To: joni-digest@smoe.org
Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #289
Reply-To: joni@smoe.org
Sender: les@jmdl.com
Errors-To: les@jmdl.com
Precedence: bulk
JMDL Digest Monday, August 3 1998 Volume 03 : Number 289
The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available
now. Go to for all the details.
-------
The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank
message to for all the details.
-------
Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things
Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered -
to
-------
And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee.
Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to
for more info.
-------
The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at
and contains the latest news, a detailed bio,
Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more.
-------
The JMDL website can be found at and contains
Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives,
and much more.
==========
TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
--------
Re: NJC - Alcohol / drugs [JEWEL765@aol.com]
Re: Blue CD releases (short!) [catman ]
Joni, Gillian and Commercial Sense (VLJC) [Steve Dulson ]
Re: shameless self-promotion Pt Deux NJC [Mark Domyancich ]
Joni, Gillian and Commercial Sense (VLJC) [Steve Dulson ]
Stan Rogers (NJC) [Steve Dulson ]
Re: Joni in NYTimes [peltdanc@dnai.com (Stephen Pelton Dance Theater)]
Re: NJC - Alcohol / drugs [JEWEL765@aol.com]
A Day in the Garden [JAN201@aol.com]
Hello from Denise [Denisongs@aol.com]
Bad Blue CDs [joe horne ]
TTT PR ["Wong, Kai" ]
Re: Blue CD releases (short!) [jussi ]
CMIARS promo poster auction [kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)]
Re: Bad Blue CDs ["Reuben Bell3" ]
Today in Joni History - August 3 [Today in Joni History ]
Today in Joni History - August 4 [Today in Joni History ]
This Month in Joni History - August [This Month in Joni History ]
Re: Crosby - CPR - Joni Marketing [Franco ]
J.M. & Management [Skin Deep ]
Quality Grocery Store Listening ["Don Rowe" ]
more on internet careers ["Deb Thornton" ]
Re: TTT PR [Marsha ]
Re: more on internet careers [catman ]
RE: Joni in NYTimes ["Wally Kairuz" ]
NJC:Shari Lewis [catman ]
TapeTree #7 on the road [Les Irvin ]
dar and toshi (njc) [trxschwa ]
RE: Cocteau Twins (NJC) [trxschwa ]
NJC: Homophobic crap [catman ]
Re: NJC:Shari Lewis [Marsha ]
Re: Alcohol/drugs/ (NJC) [MP123A321@aol.com]
Re: Joni PR ["Julie Z. Webb" ]
RE: Blue on MOA ["Wally Kairuz" ]
Re: Joni PR ["Kakki" ]
Re: Stephanie NJC [IVPAUL42@aol.com]
Re: Bad Blue CDs [IVPAUL42@aol.com]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:30:12 EDT
From: JEWEL765@aol.com
Subject: Re: NJC - Alcohol / drugs
People who have alchol and drug adictions are adicts. And they have a problem.
It is nto them wanting to hurt them sleves. there system and body depends on
them drinking or taking the drugs. So it is gard for hem to get out of it
suposed to acasional drinkers and people who acasionaly do drugs.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 17:39:22 +0100
From: catman
Subject: Re: Blue CD releases (short!)
The copy of Blue, which I bought in 94, I have is fine. Got it at Tower.
However, the only cd that sounds rough is STAS, and there was an explanation
on this list that the original lp wasn't recorded well in the first place, so
I take that to be the reason this cd sounds ropey.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:45:59 -0700
From: Steve Dulson
Subject: Joni, Gillian and Commercial Sense (VLJC)
Listening to Gillian Welch's new "Hell Among The Yearlings"
CD caused me to reflect on a parallel with Joni. This post
turned into mostly a review of the GW CD, so skip it at will.
For Joni to release "Mingus" made zero commercial sense, but
absolute artistic sense. At that point in her career she had
started to lose her mainstream audience, with "HOSL" and "DJRD".
She could still have recorded "C & S II" and won much of that
audience, and the airplay, back, but she chose not to. She
followed, as she almost always has, her artistic heart.
For Gillian to release "Hell Among The Yearlings" makes zero
commercial sense, but absolute artistic sense. Her first CD,
"Revival", was a brilliant mix of nouveau old-time country folk
music, sparingly produced by T-Bone Burnett. So I can picture
her management plotting the next CD..."OK Gillian, we're going
to get you some high profile session players, you need to write
a few more rockers, we'll get Emmylou to do a couple of duets with
you, line up an MYV spot..."
Instead, "Hell Among The Yearlings" is even starker than "Revival",
The only back up musician is Burnett himself, who adds understated
piano and organ to one track. On the only track with bass and drums,
those instruments are played by Gillian and partner David Rawlings.
And the songs! In "Caleb Meyer", a woman cuts the throat of a man who
is trying to rape her. In "One Morning" a woman sees her son, "the
boy of my breast", ride home mortally wounded. This is real Top 40
stuff, right? There are three songs (maybe too many?) about, well,
drugs, "My Morphine" being the most explicit. And you could swear
that "Winter's Come and Gone" could have been a hit for the Carter
Family in the '20s.
The CD is a real stunner. Zero, zero, zero commercial potential. It'll
get airplay on the folkie shows on college and public radio. It'll
sell maybe 80,000 copies, mostly to poeple who see Gillian and David play
live. That's it. But it deserves to be far more widely heard.
Gillian and David will be on "Morning Becomes Eclectic" this Friday,
if you want to tune in, on the radio or the web, and are at the
Troubadour in LA Wednesday and in Solana Beach Thursday.
##############################################################
Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com
"The Tinker's Own"
http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html
"Southern California Dulcimer Heritage"
http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 10:50:29 -0600
From: Bounced Message
Subject: H.elp? A Day in the Garden
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 05:59:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Medric Faulkner
Dear List,
H.elp! I have decided at the last minute to try to go to A Day in the
Garden since I can get a plane ticket out of Monroe LA into LGA for
$239. Does anyone know if there is shuttle service to the site out of
NYC? I can't seem to get the Sullivan Co. site to load and I'd like to
book a hotel room near any shuttle site. You know a rural Mississippi
boy Doesn't need to be too loose in NYC.
Medric Faulkner
megg56@yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:47:54 -0500
From: Mark Domyancich
Subject: Re: shameless self-promotion Pt Deux NJC
How about general Illinoisans??? Count me in! Now there's a lady in
Illinois who's on this list...
Julie wrote:
> -JulieZW, who sees Chicago Jmdlers are starting to grow in
>numbers:
>Howard Moytl, Doug Stapleton, Fred Simon, Paul's from the Windy City, and
>whatever happened to "Stephanie from Chicago?" What a group of creative
>people might I add....Am I missing anybody?
____________________________________
| Mark Domyancich |
| Harpua@revealed.net |
| http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ |
|__________________________________|
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:59:24 -0700
From: davina@pacificsw.com (Davina Greenstein)
Subject: Free Nancy Griffith CD
Grabbed the new Nancy Griffith CD at an indie record store in downtown Los
Angeles, instead of the Patti Griffith CD....both were side by side. Highly
unlikely I will make the treck downtown to exchange the CD. Not a Nancy
fan. The first lister to contact me with shipping information will be sent
the CD for free...
Davina
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 10:06:28 PDT
From: "Don Rowe"
Subject: NYT Joni Article
Say what you will about Mr. Inaurato ... at least he didn't pigeonhole
Joni as a "protest singer" ...
D Rowe
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:45:59 -0700
From: Steve Dulson
Subject: Joni, Gillian and Commercial Sense (VLJC)
Listening to Gillian Welch's new "Hell Among The Yearlings"
CD caused me to reflect on a parallel with Joni. This post
turned into mostly a review of the GW CD, so skip it at will.
For Joni to release "Mingus" made zero commercial sense, but
absolute artistic sense. At that point in her career she had
started to lose her mainstream audience, with "HOSL" and "DJRD".
She could still have recorded "C & S II" and won much of that
audience, and the airplay, back, but she chose not to. She
followed, as she almost always has, her artistic heart.
For Gillian to release "Hell Among The Yearlings" makes zero
commercial sense, but absolute artistic sense. Her first CD,
"Revival", was a brilliant mix of nouveau old-time country folk
music, sparingly produced by T-Bone Burnett. So I can picture
her management plotting the next CD..."OK Gillian, we're going
to get you some high profile session players, you need to write
a few more rockers, we'll get Emmylou to do a couple of duets with
you, line up an MYV spot..."
Instead, "Hell Among The Yearlings" is even starker than "Revival",
The only back up musician is Burnett himself, who adds understated
piano and organ to one track. On the only track with bass and drums,
those instruments are played by Gillian and partner David Rawlings.
And the songs! In "Caleb Meyer", a woman cuts the throat of a man who
is trying to rape her. In "One Morning" a woman sees her son, "the
boy of my breast", ride home mortally wounded. This is real Top 40
stuff, right? There are three songs (maybe too many?) about, well,
drugs, "My Morphine" being the most explicit. And you could swear
that "Winter's Come and Gone" could have been a hit for the Carter
Family in the '20s.
The CD is a real stunner. Zero, zero, zero commercial potential. It'll
get airplay on the folkie shows on college and public radio. It'll
sell maybe 80,000 copies, mostly to poeple who see Gillian and David play
live. That's it. But it deserves to be far more widely heard.
Gillian and David will be on "Morning Becomes Eclectic" this Friday,
if you want to tune in, on the radio or the web, and are at the
Troubadour in LA Wednesday and in Solana Beach Thursday.
##############################################################
Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com
"The Tinker's Own"
http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html
"Southern California Dulcimer Heritage"
http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 18:21:51 +0100
From: catman
Subject: Re: NJC - Alcohol / drugs
I do not know whether or not addiction is a disease. However, I believe people in
the grip of addiction are ill. I have experience of two types of addiction.
One was do a drug, diazepam. It was prescribed to me by my then dr. I wasn't told
what it was or that it was addictive. After a short time, I began to feel truly
terrible;vision effects, dizzyness, skin crawling, jumbos in the stomach, rapid
heartbeat, fainting, shaking, lowered body temperature, nausea and more. My dr's
idea was to increase the dose. Instead i phoned a drugs helpline. Found out my
drug was valium and that I was suffering withdrawal, even tho I was taking the
drug 3 times a day. I was told it was physically addictive and that withdrawl
happens once the body has got use to the dose.
I worked out how to come off, changed my dr, and started to reduce by 1 mg a week.
It took a few months to get off and a few more months for all the symptoms to
disappear. It was anightmare to go thru and not one i wish upon anyone. Cramps etc
are not amusing.
As a result I have a much keener understanding of what it takes to get off
drugs/drink. To me, it matters not how one got hooked in the first place-the pain
of getting off will still be there.
The second addiction was anorexia/bulimia. That was something I did to
myself(although that took a long long time to understand). It was extremely
painful and very dangerous. Caused me all sorts of internal problems. I spent a
year in a special unit where they treated me as a 'disease'. I left that place
even sicker and knwoing more about how to damage myself and stay skinny, 86lbs.
I did not have a disease as far as I was concerned. I now know I was emotionally
disturbed, to say the least. Once I began to feel and recognized that I was all
this went away. It included compulsive checking and cutting of myself. I was
'addicted' to these things. There was nothing I could have done to stop myself
puking or swallowing 50 laxatives, or cutting myself or checking. When that
feeling came upon me I just HAD TO act. Of course had I had skilled help, and had
not been treated as if I was a disease, or had one, I would have known that awful
feeling that caused me to behave the way I did, was unexpressed pain. Now I now
that and I am well and happy, tho I know I am not all there and probably never
will be. I guess I will always be a child.
As far as I am concerned no one chooses to become addicted to anything.
Alchoholics do not pick up ther first drink and say I will become an alcoholic, a
smack addict does not take smack and say I am doing this so I can make my life
hell. No. Not at all. I think those that get hooked on anything are trying,
desperately, to fix the pain inside, or avoid it, even tho usually it isn't known
that they are doing this. Given the right nonjudgmental help, people can and do
recover. My friend Judy is an alcoholic but has been sober 26 yrs. She is a truly
lovely person and has much understanding and compassion.
Unfortunately, some of the least tolerant people I know on the subject are non
using addicts/alcoholics! Ever come across an ex-smoker who is now a rabid
anti-smoker?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:26:04 -0700
From: Steve Dulson
Subject: Stan Rogers (NJC)
Brian the Chilihead asked:
>Does anyone know anything about Stan Rogers? In a song called "So Blue", he
>writes, I want to listen to Joni Mitchell on the radio and make love...."
>Apparently he was Canadian and died young.
Yep. One of the best singer/songwriters to emerge in the '70s.
Check out http://www.summerfolk.org/popdown.html.
His brother Garnet is an excellent s/ser also. Check him out if you get
the chance.
Best,
##############################################################
Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com
"The Tinker's Own"
http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html
"Southern California Dulcimer Heritage"
http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:25:07 -0800
From: peltdanc@dnai.com (Stephen Pelton Dance Theater)
Subject: Re: Joni in NYTimes
I agreee with Roberto, that the NYTimes article was a sort of awkward
discussion of women composers, but I have to say it is about time someone
started talking about Joni in relation to Schubert. So much of her work is
so closely related to Schubert's lieder. For me it is a very logical and
very rewarding comparison to make. I'm not sure what Schubert's gayness
has to do with it. (though I can't imagine that he wasn't...) He made his
own way of doing things as does Joni, that's what mattered.
- --SP
PS--For the uninitiated, rush right out and listen to Schubert's Die
Schoene Mullerine or Die Winterreise, then listen to Hejira...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:33:22 EDT
From: JEWEL765@aol.com
Subject: Re: NJC - Alcohol / drugs
I have come across several adictions. I am currently living in a home with 1
recovering alcholic and one who does not see he has a problem. It is Hell for
both the people with the adiction and the people who love them. I tried to
help my sister(recovering one) then I learned I had to help my self. i good
book for trying to forgiving teh people who accidently hurt you is THE
LANGUAGE OF LETTING GO.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:49:52 EDT
From: JAN201@aol.com
Subject: A Day in the Garden
Less than two weeks to go until I see Joni again! I'm wondering if a lot of
JMDLs will be at the August 15th concert in Bethel, NY. The line-up sounds
wonderful for the whole day- Richie Havens, Donovan, Lou Reed, Pete Townsend,
and, of course, Joni. I've got a blue motel room (with a blue bedspread) all
booked and waiting, I've got a weekend playdate set up for my son so I can
concentrate on the music, I've got the tickets in my hot little hand-- I'm
set!!
Actually, I've got 2 more tickets than I need (because of the festival's
surprise 2 for 1 deal), so if anyone out there wants them, $78 buys 2 general
admissions, let me know. I know that they say the price is $70, but
Ticketmaster puts it to you for $8 more. But it's still a great deal for 2
tickets! Kids are free, you'll have to find your own place to stay... If
anyone is interested, contact me privately.
By the way, I posted a couple of weeks ago about my search for a video of a
1968 (or so) Joni/Arlo concert, then I went out of town and got totally
confused with the digests that awaited my return. If anyone answered my plea,
could I please beg you to do it again? I'll really try to keep up now, I think
I've got the hang of this now. Well, kind of anyway!
Many thanks!
Jan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:51:46 EDT
From: Denisongs@aol.com
Subject: Hello from Denise
Hi,
I am back after being gone a few weeks. I have been spending time listening
to the tape trees that Brian was kind enough to make me. They are wonderful.
Some stuff I had in pieces on old vinyl bootlegs and much is new to me. The
tapes even make traffic jams fine with me!
Anyway, I just wanted to say hello! Denise : )
P.S. Did I miss any new performances that were announced?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:26:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: joe horne
Subject: Bad Blue CDs
My BLUE CD is defective (snips the first second of "All I Want") and
the songs are in the wrong order. I should complain to the record
company. Has anyone done this?
joejoejoejoejoejoejoe
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:27:48 -0400
From: "Wong, Kai"
Subject: TTT PR
Reuben Bell3:
I can hardly wait for TTT, but somehow I don't think they will get it
right. It is less than 2 months away and I still have not seen much
action from Reprise. Except for the Woodstock appearance, I am not sure
what else is planned. The way the market works today, Joni would have
to appear on at least some of the major talk shows to gain exposure
(Rosie, Oprah, Barbara, Dave, Katie and Matt, Jay?) and picking the
right song is pretty crucial. I think Harlem in Havana will go over
really well.
A VHI special would be helpful and, dare I say this, they should try to
get a track (Crazy Cries of Love?) included in the next big romantic
comedy soundtrack, perhaps the new Tom Hanks/Meg Ryan movie. Seems like
that is the only way to get exposure these days since nobody seems to be
listening to the radio much anymore. I glanced at the Billboard charts
recently and half the Top 10 were soundtracks. What is going on???
Madonna is one of the few artists that really knows how the PR system
works. Afer all, how many artists from the eighties are still selling
multi-platinum albums? Not even Prince, Michael Jackson or Bruce
Springsteen sells anymore, so I think it will be really tough to market
TTT. On the other hand, the few tracks I have heard are so outstanding
compared to what's out there today that with some smart moves, Reprise
could have a medium sized hit on their hands. I am hoping that if we
can push it into the Top 20 the first week, the media buzz will be
self-generating.
I think that TTT is a pretty good bet for a Grammy nomination. Madonna,
Dave Matthews and Celine Dion will probably get nominations too.
Kai
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 21:59:47 -0700
From: jussi
Subject: Re: Blue CD releases (short!)
Howard Wright wrote:
> Last year, I bought Blue on CD, and had to take it back to the store
> 3 times to replace it because the first half second or so of "All I Want"
> was missing! All the replacements had exactly the same problem, so I had
> to give up in the end. I still don't have Blue on CD!
>
> This is probably just a problem with the particular batch of CDs that were
> pressed, but it made me wonder. Did anyone else (especially those in the
> UK) come across dud Blue CDs ?
My "Blue" is a 'normal' 80's CD made in Germany (Reprise 244 128) and it
has the same problem. I believe the fault is already on the CD master.
The track mark is at the wrong place. The beginning of the song is
actually there on the disc, but you have to rewind to "-0.01" to hear it
all, which is a bit annoying.
- --jussi
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:36:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)
Subject: CMIARS promo poster auction
Joni Mitchell promo poster Seller: tb2945@atlantic.net Starts: 07/27/98
14:20:37 PDT Ends: 08/03/98 14:20:37 PDT Price: Currently $15.50 To
bid the item, go to:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=23033459
Item Description:
Joni Mitchell"chalk mark in a rain
storm" 1988 Geffen records promo poster, measures 24"x36",very good
condition, see pic.Seller owned record store from 1979-91, original, not
a copy. mailed rolled, add $4 shipping.
gdave
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
DaveBase @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/2349/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 15:38:20 -0400
From: "Reuben Bell3"
Subject: Re: Bad Blue CDs
This is interesting, because my CLOUDS disc has the same problem. I don't know about my blue disc, because I never had the vinyl. Very strange...
>>> joe horne 08/03 2:26 PM >>>
My BLUE CD is defective (snips the first second of "All I Want") and
the songs are in the wrong order. I should complain to the record
company. Has anyone done this?
joejoejoejoejoejoejoe
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 13:04:54 -0600
From: Today in Joni History
Subject: Today in Joni History - August 3
1979: Joni performs at the Oklahoma City Zoo Amphitheatre. Joni's summer
tour to promote the Mingus album began on this day in 1979. The tour
concluded 6 weeks later with five shows at the Greek Theater in L.A. The
all-star band for this tour includes Pat Metheny, Jaco Pastorius, Lyle
Mays, Don Alias, and Micheal Brecker.
Some interesting tidbits about the tour can be found at a Jaco site:
http://www.jazzonln.com/LABELS/WBSPACE/jacochp4.htm
- --------
Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to
JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list.
- --------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 12:31:31 -0600
From: Today in Joni History
Subject: Today in Joni History - August 4
1994: Joni performs at the Edmonton Folk Festival. At the press conference
Joni said:
"I really loved the audience. I loved the interaction. Have you ever been
in a black movie house and people yell, "Look out he's around the door!"
There was so much comment right after the new songs. The new songs should
communicate, I don't want to become a living jukebox, where people are only
coming to live their childhood through me, because I plan on being a vital
artist until I lose it or something."
More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Edmonton94.html
- --------
Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to
JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list.
- --------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 13:56:34 -0600
From: This Month in Joni History
Subject: This Month in Joni History - August
1970: The single "Big Yellow Taxi" hit #67 on the US charts.
1971: The album "Blue" reaches #15 in the US and #3 in the UK.
1996: This month's issue of Acoustic Guitar features an article on Joni:
"There's a certain kind of restlessness that not many artists are cursed or
blessed with, depending on how you look at it," Mitchell said. "Craving
change, craving growth, seeing always room for improvement in your work."
In that statement lies the key to her music: seeing it as an ongoing
process of invention, rather than a series of discrete and final statements.
Read the full article at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/agaug96.htm
- --------
Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to
JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list.
- --------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:47:50 -0700
From: "Kakki"
Subject: Re: Joni PR
Steve wrote:
> At Kakki's place after the May 29 taping, I asked Robbie Cavolina
> "Does Joni know there are people like us (meaning the jmdlers) out
> there?" "She does now," he answered, "She didn't for a long time.
> Her management has made some really bad decisions over the years,
> really kept her insulated, but that's changing."
>
> As best I can remember Robbie's words...Kakki?
Yes, that is the gist of comments he made to us. I assume he was referring to
her former management because it seems that Feldman, et al, are taking a much
more aggressive, proactive approach in promoting and positioning her these days
in comparison to the past. Several of us here (myself included) have commented
that we did not even know about several of her album when they were initially
released in the past several years.
In my opinion, the invitations extended to her internet community to attend the
tapings was a significant, and not a "token," gesture. I thought it was also
significant that she chose to meet with us one night while turning down
requests to meet with the "bigwigs". We've also heard accounts from others who
just happened to run into her at the tapings and how friendly and accomodating
she was to them. I worked in marketing/public relations/promotion for many
years before and believe me, such invitations, meetings, etc. are usually very
well planned and strategic, and not random happenstance.
Unfortunately, positioning an artist in the market is a complex undertaking and
the record companies of today are not only driven by the bottom line, they are
constantly undergoing upheaval in ownership, management and personnel, so there
can be a woeful lack of continuity for any artist in a business that operates
in hyper-speed. Also, there is a dearth of radio stations which play Joni.
The few stations in L.A. that had alternative format (where she was played in
the last decade) have fallen to the wayside in favor of Top 40. The internet
will soon be widely recognized as the most important marketing medium
for all music artists.
Kakki
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:02:34 -0400
From: Franco
Subject: Re: Crosby - CPR - Joni Marketing
I agree. the CPR album is one great album.
I was lucky enough to be able to catch 3 CPR shows before the boys left for
the European leg of the tour (They killed them in Montreaux). This band has
to be seen LIVE to be believed.
David usually includes "Yvette in English" in the set list. He usually
introduces the song by telling the audience that Joni is probably the
greatest living songwriter today, and that he was honored to write this
song with her. He also concedes that she did a larger part of the song than
he did.
During the course of the American Tour, CPR had a bass player from
Philadelphia named Chico Huffs fill in for regular bass player Andrew Ford
for a few gigs. During "Yvette in English", I noticed some very "Pastorius
Sounding" bass lines. I asked Chico about this at a small get-together
after the show.
He laughed and said, "You noticed that, eh? I just had to pay homage to
"the master"."
As far as marketing goes. CPR has also been selling their own "bootleg" of
a live concert that they did last year at Questa College. It's available at
their concerts or their website. They've been recording many of the gigs on
this tour for future "boots".
By the way, The montreaux gig is also available on RealAudio and Video at
http://www.montreuxjazz.com/live98/uk/ondemand/15.html
There is an
interview at the top of this page - the actual concert can be found by
scrolling down.
- ------
Franco
-----------
Subject: Crosby-CPR - Joni Marketing
And "Kakki" said:
I just got the CPR album which came out
in the record stores a few weeks ago. This is not only the best album I
have
heard this year - I totally flipped over it on the very first listen - it
is
some of the best Crosby I've ever heard. His son James Raymond and Jeff
Pevar
are major talents. (Raymond has worked with many top artists including Tom
Scott). Crosby says that they threw some "Joni and Sting (influences) in
the
album for seasoning." Some of Crosby's lyrics on this album are somehow so
reminiscent of Joni to me that I found myself re-checking the liner notes
just
to see if there had been any collaboration with her. I recommend this
album
most highly. The CSN website seems to indicate that the CPR album is only
available in the U.S. at this point, awaiting arrangements with foreign
distribution but the album can be ordered through either the CSN or CPR web
sites. Check out http://www.crosbycpr.com
Kakki
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 14:02:48 -0700
From: Skin Deep
Subject: J.M. & Management
I remember seeing Ms Mitchell on the Tonight Show when Song to a Seagull
first came out. Carson was very impressed. In the interview he asked why
he had not heard of her befor? Her reply, poor or bad management. Can
not remember which, it has been a long time, but I think that is how it
went. I bought the Lp the next day. That year, She would lullaby me to
sleep.
Fred Walzenfree
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 14:01:04 PDT
From: "Don Rowe"
Subject: Quality Grocery Store Listening
Okay, we've all noticed the occassional Joni song in the supermarket,
but they've *really* stretched out the enveloped this time ... last
Saturday heard: "Chelsea Morning" (Judy Collins version), "Like a
Thief" (or is it "Run in the Night Like A Thief", I can never
remember)Bonnie Raitt and "Go Insane" (Lindsey Buckingham!! Not that
there's anything wrong with that, mind you ...
Don Rowe
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:20:52 -0600
From: "Deb Thornton"
Subject: more on internet careers
You're probably tired of hearing me talk about Dar Williams, but the
occasion calls.
The internet-influenced career discussion has been fascinating, and Dar
might be one of the poster children for this movement. She definitely feels
that her success in the folk world is directly attributable to the
internet. As a venue, it allows her music to find its way to people through
discussion lists, web sites, and whatnot, and she knows from talking with
her fans that many, many of them first hear of her on the internet. Her
management team posts regularly to the dar-list to keep the fanatics
informed, and there is an excellent rapport---they aren't issuing from on
high, in other words (the more the fan feels connected, the better--and the
artificial intimacy of the internet provides that sense of
connectedness--though Dar is always signing autographs and talking with
people after her shows, and she remembers the names of people she has met
only once before). Her manager, Charlie Hunter, issues periodical Career
Pontifications to describe the next steps they are going to pursue in Dar's
career. The volume of those pontifications amount to a blueprint for owning
one's art (and self) constantly, while sharing both with the audience.
Because of the heavy internet involvement, she has enjoyed a broadly
expanding fan base.
Dar shuns the glitz and commercial possibilities that come her way. She
doesn't want to be a star, she wants to be an artist free of commercial
dictates. She would prefer to have an organic career rather than become a
victim of the star-maker machinery. She sticks with a small label to avoid
that pressure, and still there is more pressure than she wishes to deal
with.
In a time when labels own artists, Dar Williams actually owns her
recordings, and she leases them to the record label, Razor and Tie, giving
them the right to print and distribute them for a certain length of time.
These are possibilities that one folk singer has capitalized on
successfully. I see no reason why Joni could not make some of the same
modifications.
cheers,
deb "circled with compromise" thornton
"What's his type?"
"Drunk with two pistols; makes his wife answer the telephone."
--Eudora Welty
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 18:01:06 -0400
From: Marsha
Subject: Re: TTT PR
Wong, Kai wrote:
> I glanced at the Billboard charts recently and half the
> Top 10 were soundtracks.
> What is going on???
"Everyone's gone to the movies
Now we're alone at last" Steely Dan
Marsha, who thinks Lead Balloon off TTT will be my
favorite...it is such a kicking rock tune
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 23:15:43 +0100
From: catman
Subject: Re: more on internet careers
Deb-you count me as one who first heard Dar on the Net. I asked about her on
this list and Rob Jordan sent me a tape(should be in jail, naughty man) and now
I own all her cd's, 3 of them. I now have three favourite singers! Dar reminds
me of joni in the wway she crams all those words in and tells a story. Really
good, I think.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:39:39 -0300
From: "Wally Kairuz"
Subject: RE: Joni in NYTimes
- -----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Pelton Dance Theater
To: joni@smoe.org
Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Joni in NYTimes
>I agreee with Roberto, that the NYTimes article was a sort of awkward
>discussion of women composers, but I have to say it is about time someone
>started talking about Joni in relation to Schubert. snip snip PS--For the
uninitiated, rush right out and listen to Schubert's Die
>Schoene Mullerine or Die Winterreise, then listen to Hejira...
Robert's post was masterly; so far, so good.
Now I've been listening to Schubert's and many other composers' lieder for
as long as I've been a Joni Mitchell's fan and honestly I could never figure
out the Schubert/Joni affinity that has been so frequently mentioned.
Winterreise and Mullerin are song cycles and so is Hejira [seemingly].
Reportedly, he was a fairly accomplished singer too. He often, though not
always, made use of very subtle harmonic devices. To me the similarities end
there. Like many Romantic composers, Schubert set some poem cycles to music.
However, as far as I know, he never wrote the words to his own songs or
explored styles in such headlong way as Mitchell did. Somehow he doesn't
seem to belong in the same category as Joni. I'm not suffering from
corrective syndrome or being a grammatical anal retentive or anything. I
would genuinely like to understand this Schubert/Mitchell thing. So, any
thoughts?
WallyK
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 00:35:58 +0100
From: catman
Subject: NJC:Shari Lewis
Shair Lewis (and Lamb Chop) has died of ovarian cancer. I am definately
getting old.
- --
Living is the process whereby we create the structures we call meaning.
http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk
Carly Simon Discussion List
http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 18:05:41 -0600
From: Les Irvin
Subject: TapeTree #7 on the road
Hi folks -
TapeTree #7 has been finalized and is ready for distribution. See here:
http://www.jmdl.com/tape/tree7s.htm for more information.
Thanks,
Les
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:26:25 -0400
From: trxschwa
Subject: dar and toshi (njc)
deb reminds me...
this sunday, dar williams and toshi reagon are a free double-bill at
central park's summerstage. despite hearing about dar since i joined this
list, i've never heard her work. toshi, of course, rules. should be fun.
3:00 pm, rumsey playfield.
patrick
np - die winterreise - shubert - fischer-dieskau '66
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:04:00 -0400
From: trxschwa
Subject: RE: Cocteau Twins (NJC)
The Spangle Maker
He's the droplets
He's that droplet on my truth
He's the spangle
He is that spangle maker
Oh, for that's
Awful that worked it shattering heads
She is his
She's his spangle baby
And the rest made sure it's the droplet
Singing
Broke and winded
Broke and winded
Whistling
(x2)
He's the droplets
He's that droplet on my truth
He's the spangle
He is that spangle maker
And the rest made sure it's the droplet
Singing
Broke and winded
Broke and winded
Whistling
(x2)
He's the droplets
He's that droplet on my truth
He's the spangle
He is that spangle maker
And the rest made sure it's the droplet
Singing
Broke and winded
Broke and winded
Whistling
(x2)
He's the droplets
He's that droplet on my truth
He's the spangle
He is that spangle maker
His part of the plan, it hadn't gone and there you are
It scattered then, it didn't bond and there you are
Oh, perhaps it's just the droplet singing
Broke and winded, I whistle and there you hide
(x3)
- -----Original Message-----
From: evian [SMTP:evian@sk.sympatico.ca]
Sent: Monday, August 03, 1998 2:43 AM
To: joni@smoe.org
Subject: Cocteau Twins (NJC)
Speaking of the Cocteau Twins, does anyone have any idea what the lyrics
to "the Spangle Maker" are?
Evian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 02:15:31 +0100
From: catman
Subject: NJC: Homophobic crap
The homophobes are at it again. Waiting for police to arrive then I am
off somewhere else peaceful to get some sleep.
- --
Living is the process whereby we create the structures we call meaning.
http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk
Carly Simon Discussion List
http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 21:24:03 -0400
From: Marsha
Subject: Re: NJC:Shari Lewis
catman wrote:
>
> Shair Lewis (and Lamb Chop) has died of ovarian cancer. I am definately
> getting old.
This saddens me.
I grew up watching and loving that little narci Lamb Chop.
I recently made the connection for my desire to have so
many white fluffs surrounding me (my Bichons), because of
Lamb Chop "transference"...
Shari never seemed to age. She was a musical conductor and quite
a talented woman.
Marsha
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:29:49 EDT
From: MP123A321@aol.com
Subject: Re: Alcohol/drugs/ (NJC)
In a message dated 8/3/98 9:13:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ejaimes@makoojik.com writes:
<< Obviously you can't stay on that path too long. I've known people that did
- they are either dead or required years in prison to learn their lesson.
But as far as all these organizations such as AA which say "oh, it's a
DISEASE," this is nothing more than the Great American Principle of
accepting NO responsibility for one's own actions. Personally, I find the
precept somewhere between pathetic and hilarious. I have no doubt that
this would irritate someone like you who writes: >>
I would like to state, for the record, that I believe the AMA currently
consider substance dependence and alcohol dependence a disease.
<< This is a real conflict with the insurance companies and the Vet
Administration that have and may still consider drug / alcohol dependence a
"self inflicted" disorder. This keeps many from receiving treatment
services.>>
My point was that this "disease" means it is characterized by certain signs
and symptoms that are usually the same and predictable, and that untreated
will usually result in the same outcome. I was comparing the medical model to
the moral argument.
I by no means believe it is an excuse to continue using with reckless
abandonment because "I have a disease." That cop out is the first thing a lot
of addicts use to justify a relapse in early recovery. It is sometimes a
problem when trying to educate addicts about the disease concept of addiction.
I'm certain any successful treatment program teaches clients to be
responsible and accountable for their behavior and addiction.
<>
There is plenty of literature to support the disease of addiction. A lot of
people have gone back out to prove it wrong, I've never seen one use socially
after exhibiting a dependent use pattern. If you ever relapse after a long
period of recovery, you may start believing it is a disease.
Hope that won't happen in your case.
Take care,
Maurice
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 21:36:11 -0500
From: "Julie Z. Webb"
Subject: Re: Joni PR
At 12:47 PM 8/3/98 -0700, Kakki wrote:
>In my opinion, the invitations extended to her internet community to
attend the
>tapings was a significant, and not a "token," gesture.
Well it's a sign that her people are taking steps in the right direction,
but I see that single event as very different than the ongoing campaign of
marketing and connecting with an internet site for fans to
"shop-swap&share" as the CS&N site you discussed in your earlier post.
>significant that she chose to meet with us one night while turning down
>requests to meet with the "bigwigs". We've also heard accounts from
others who
>just happened to run into her at the tapings and how friendly and
accomodating
>she was to them.
I always imagined Joni to be friendly and indebted to her fans----hey, I
may be wrong, but just because she gave some jmdlers 15 minutes doesn't
necessarily mean to me that her PR people were doing their jobs . However,
brief notes from her via her site on the internet would provide a safe,
non-invasive way for her to connect to a heck of a lot more people----and
when word got a round that she was aware and responsive----it could
ranslate into more people wanting to hear more of her music and buy her
records. This would also provide her with a way to find her audience---as
well as an end to the frustration she expressed in MOJO: "the marketplace
has been denied me, so I think a lot of those records, there's a bigger
audience for it than it received."
Today we have heard about connections made to internet community fans by
so many musicians and how this has inspired all kinds of positive activity.
And I remember the lengthy Carly Simon post that Colin shared with us
when Carly wrote about her bout with breast cancer to her web site fans----
I thought that was amazing. Amazing when comparing this to Joni who 1.
found her daughter on this web site, 2. received an artistic jmdl
community birthday card from many many jmdlers, 3. a jmdl tribute tape of
a dozen jmdl performances and written dedications etc etc.....and we are
left with third party messages of receipt from Wally. I think that's
significant too. I don't think she's into it. period.
>I worked in marketing/public relations/promotion for many
>years before and believe me, such invitations, meetings, etc. are usually
very
>well planned and strategic, and not random happenstance.
Well Kakki, then Joni's pr people need your expertise, because I think
that the key words here of yours are: "**usually** very well planned and
strategic" which may explain why a lot of very big fans of hers "did not
even know about several of her albums when they were initially released in
the past several years." I guess I don't have as much confidence in
Feldman's management, either, since he **has** been her management for at
least two years or more now. As Kai Wong said and I tend to agree, "I can
hardly wait for TTT, but somehow I don't think they will get it right. It
is less than 2 months away and I still have not seen much action from
Reprise. Except for the Woodstock appearance, I am not sure what else is
planned."
-Julie, in a pmsessimistic mood
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:03:25 -0300
From: "Wally Kairuz"
Subject: RE: Blue on MOA
- -----Original Message-----
From: LRFye@aol.com
To: joni@smoe.org
Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: Blue on MOA
>WallyK wrote:
>
>> Have you noticed that Joni skips "ass" after "needles, guns and.." on the
>MAO version of "Blue"?
>
>The word Joni skipped was "grass," presumably because there was a lot of
>lightin' up going on at the show ...
>
>Lori
>in San Antonio
You're right, Lori. And what did I mean by the MAO version anyway? A
concert in the Forbidden City?
WallyK
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:06:36 -0700
From: "Kakki"
Subject: Re: Joni PR
Julie, you are sounding rather pessimistic - but I think we are really saying
the same thing ultimately.
> Well it's a sign that her people are taking steps in the right direction,
> but I see that single event as very different than the ongoing campaign of
> marketing and connecting with an internet site for fans to
> "shop-swap&share" as the CS&N site you discussed in your earlier post.
I see that single event as significant because it is apparently the first time
in our JMDL history that she connected with us on a "1st party" basis, rather
than transmitting 3rd party messages to us. This gives me hope that either she
and/or her management are starting to make more efforts to connect with us.
Only Wally knows the details but I've heard from a couple sources that Joni and
her management made a point of wanting us there. Yeah, it could be that they
needed enthusiastic seat fillers, too, but at least we were the ones they
thought to invite.
I do think the CSN site is a good model for her and wonder if her buddies David
and Graham have been giving her any suggestions.
> I always imagined Joni to be friendly and indebted to her fans----hey, I
> may be wrong, but just because she gave some jmdlers 15 minutes doesn't
> necessarily mean to me that her PR people were doing their jobs .
Yes, but I find it unusual that she gave us the 15 minutes of her time in that
particular situation where she had the choice of meeting with a plethora of
celebs and industry insiders or just cutting out to party with her buddies,
instead.
> Today we have heard about connections made to internet community fans by
> so many musicians and how this has inspired all kinds of positive activity.
> And I remember the lengthy Carly Simon post that Colin shared with us
> when Carly wrote about her bout with breast cancer to her web site fans----
> I thought that was amazing. Amazing when comparing this to Joni who 1.
> found her daughter on this web site, 2. received an artistic jmdl
> community birthday card from many many jmdlers, 3. a jmdl tribute tape of
> a dozen jmdl performances and written dedications etc etc.....and we are
> left with third party messages of receipt from Wally. I think that's
> significant too. I don't think she's into it. period.
I thought of Colin's forward of Carly's post today, too, and am always noticing
that most other artists do communicate on their websites on a regular basis.
However, the web sites where I have seen the artist appear regularly have been
the "Official" websites of the artists, which are usually highly monitored.
The discussion groups I've seen on those web sites are also very strictly
moderated with long lists of rules. I think that we might only see Joni
appearing regularly to communicate with her fans on an official web site
associated with her record label/managment. Before anyone shoots me for
perceived blasphemy, let me say that the "unofficial" music artist web sites
I've seen are infinitely more interesting and informative than the "official"
ones, which are tightly controlled.
> I guess I don't have as much confidence in Feldman's management, either,
since he **has** been her >management for at least two years or more now. As
Kai Wong said and I tend to agree, "I can
> hardly wait for TTT, but somehow I don't think they will get it right. It
> is less than 2 months away and I still have not seen much action from
> Reprise.
Well, I think they've done a pretty good job with Hits and Misses, plus
whatever involvement they've had in repackaging her CDs to include original
artwork and HDCD format. I saw more ad copy on Hits and Misses than any other
Joni release in years. Some of the jmdlers out here for the concerts back in
May also saw promo material in the record stores for TTT.
> Except for the Woodstock appearance, I am not sure what else is
> planned."
The airing of her taping in September in the U.S. and abroad. And then
concerts to promote TTT.
Kakki
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:19:03 EDT
From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
Subject: Re: Stephanie NJC
In a message dated 98-08-03 12:54:15 EDT, Harpua@revealed.net writes:
<< whatever happened to "Stephanie from Chicago?" >>
Stephanie took another job that did not provide her internet access. Haven't
heard from her since, unfortunately.
Paul I
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:25:46 EDT
From: IVPAUL42@aol.com
Subject: Re: Bad Blue CDs
In a message dated 98-08-03 14:28:01 EDT, seasonalthought@yahoo.com writes:
<< My BLUE CD is defective (snips the first second of "All I Want") and
the songs are in the wrong order. I should complain to the record
company. Has anyone done this?
>>
Don't complain to the record company; take it back to where you bought it and
demand a replacement. It is the store's job to complain to the record company.
Paul I
------------------------------
End of JMDL Digest V3 #289
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-------
Siquomb, isn't she?