From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #272 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, July 22 1998 Volume 03 : Number 272 The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: mojo ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: Stealing from Joni? [al date ] Re: Stealing from Joni! [al date ] Stop the world, I wanna get off! (NJC) [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Stealing from Joni! [al date ] Re: Joni & swing/bebop [Thomas Ross ] RE: Re: The swing era and TTT [Thomas Ross ] RE: NJC Impressionistic bologna [Thomas Ross ] Re: Comtemporary C. Poets and Socks Knocking (SJC) [Thomas Ross ] Re: Stealing from Joni ["Winfried Hühn" ] Re: Shrinks [catman ] Re: The Unfiltered Joni Mitchell - Part 6 (Mojo 8/98) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Asking Joni [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Tape trees and personal insults ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Re: TapeTreeS [Jerry Notaro ] Re: mojo [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Tape trees and personal insults [Marsha ] Re: mojo [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Tape trees and personal insults [Mark Domyancich ] Re: apologies [Sue ] Mojo, rural, and Oprah (NJC) [Sue ] Mojo part 5? [Phyliss Ward ] Re: Joni & swing/bebop [TerryM2442@aol.com] VLJC: My Birthday - an apology [Hassan Zubairi ] J-Cards/Mac People [Mark Domyancich ] Joni Tribute Album & Possitilities ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Joni Tribute Album & Possitilities [Jill Tamada ] Re: Joni Tribute Album & Possitilities [Mark Domyancich ] Re: J-Cards/Mac People [Jerry Notaro ] mojo [sshaw@bustoff.bwh.harvard.edu] Re: Joni & swing/bebop [Thomas Ross ] Re: J-Cards/Mac People [Diana Duncan ] Re: J-Cards/Mac People [Jerry Notaro ] Re: J-Cards/Mac People [Heather ] Bruised, Abused, whaz da Uze? ["Daugherty, Stephen" ] Kevin Hall (NJC) [sherrie.good@chronicle.com] Re: J-Cards/Mac People [Mark Domyancich ] Re: J-Cards/Mac People ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Hi All (SJC) [picard3@webtv.net (Sherelle Smith)] Re: Jcards and CaseLiner [Craig Harris ] Re: Sara Lee (NJC) [BH1248@aol.com] The Unfiltered Joni Mitchell - Part 7 (Mojo 8/98) [Rob Jordan Subject: Re: mojo Terry wrote: > I like my mojos risin'... >> > >I always thought that mojo also had a sexual connotation- one's sexual >prowess. No? > I thought it was MOther JOnes, not the magazine,... you know... a Mother Jones. POC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 00:17:27 -0700 From: al date Subject: Re: Stealing from Joni? Winfried Hühn wrote: > O SANCTA SIMPLICITAS! > > Al, if I were you, I would be very careful to put the label "bullshit" > on other posts! VERY CAREFUL!!!! I did not use the term "bullshit;" you did. I used the term "bullshirt," which everyone knowsis a magical cloth placed on male cows in order to protect their intellectual property. Please avoid introducing obscenities into our discussions, or the German govt will come and arrest for you exercising free speech. - --Al Date ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 00:48:39 -0700 From: al date Subject: Re: Stealing from Joni! Don Rowe wrote: > I'm going to have to point out just a few things here. First of all, > "unauthorized duplication" is a crime -- rented a video lately? Now > whether it should be or not isn't available for debate, it's on the > books as a crime, just like breaking and entering, larceny and not > marking posts NJC (depending on whose books you're looking at). Exactly. It should NOT be a crime. If it IS a crime, it requires a Big Brother Police State to enforce it. Personal Technology has changed the rules of the game, and as usual, the law has not caught up. > Now the cost issue. If we lived in a barter society, or even a cash > society, physical costs would be relevant. But since wealth is no > longer measured in material or physical terms, the originator does, in > fact, sustain "opportunity" losses from piracy of intellectual property. Opportunity losses are imaginary. Without the govt imposing strict interpretations of copyright, artists will just have to get out and tour more-- or else release more high-quality products to compete with the cloners. > And those losses count, in a legal sense, every bit as much as "actual" > loss. Imaginary losses can be offset by imaginary gains. If there is no real damage, there is no tort. Just don't steal my guitar, so I can write more tunes! > So here's the kicker ... while the artist may sustain an > "opportunity" loss, we the end-user of their product end up sustaining > "actual" losses as compensation. Bullshirt! If a shoe-shine boy in Bangkok can buy a low quality Joni tape for a few bhat, it hurts nobody. Maybe someday he grows up as a successful entrepreneur and buys every "real" Joni CD ever printed. Where's your opportunity losses then? > Because of piracy we are denied > sonically superior technologies, lose jobs in research and development > of these same technologies, pay higher prices for "authorized" cds, > videos, books, software ad infinitum, as industries fight to protect > material. An alternative view is that copyright and patent are often used by large corporations to keep their smaller competition from interfering with inferior market-dominating products. Do you have any idea how many lawyers are employed by Microsoft and Intel and McDonalds? Do you know how these pirates harass small competitors? > Is this sounding a little more criminal? What is criminal is corporations like Disney stealing from the public domain, and re-copyrighting Winnie The Pooh--with a special act of Congress. The original Pooh copyrights have long since expired, and the author compensated. Now a multibillion dollar corp hijacks Pooh, so that no child can have a Pooh Bear without paying royalties to ABC/Disney! Freeware and shareware and the Grateful Dead and Linus Torvold have proved that the old paradigm of copyright laws does not have to be imposed in order to get good programs/expressions and compensated artists.. So what is gained by maintaining the old paradigm, other than making work for lawyers? Let us learn to live without lawyers and copyright prosecutors--and simply try to make life better for ourselves, our family and our neighbors without harming anyone else. Artists and programmers have shown that they do not need the threat of govt copyright prosecution in order to make a living. They just have to get out more, and stay productive. Guess what! That's exactly what we need! - --Al Date ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 03:49:20 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Stop the world, I wanna get off! (NJC) Man, I can't keep up with y'all. I'm getting several digests a day, and they're piling up to the ceiling; I'm 20 digests behind and hopelessly out of touch. Everyone's talking so damn fast ... please slow down! - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:04:39 -0700 From: al date Subject: Re: Stealing from Joni! IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > I agree, but there are some people who will always ignore these facts > because it's not convenient for them or it doesn't fit in with their personal > heirarchy of priorities. Facts? Or are we dealing with opinions... > I could add an analogy that when we buy a commercial CD of Joni's music, or > anyone's, we do not really OWN that music. Like when we pay for computer > software, we are purchasing a license to hear that music at our own whim, but > it does not give us the right to sell it, or even duplicate it except for our > own use as an extension of that license. Interesting, I havent seen any legal gibberish keeping me from opening a CD. > I could have posted this analogy as if I thought saying this would really > help some people understand why they do not OWN the music (or expressions) > they purchase at the music store, but then it occurred to me that these same > people are probably making as much of an effort or more to sell, distribute or > obtain copies of computer software when they have no legal rights to do that, > either. What is "legal" is entirely different from what is ethical.Actually, the way it works is that over a long period of time, a society figures out "what works," in the utilitarian sense, and then codifies it into ethical law. So, when it is so obvious that strict copyright is an over-all loser that even the politicians realize it, then all this moral phobia against copying expressions will simply vanish--and maybe even the laws will be changed! > Still, maybe it will dissaude a few people of the notion that simply > because someone buys a CD of some artists music, they OWN that music. They do > not, and any arguments they may make based on that assumption are false. I would like to know who owns it then. What if it is an Elvis CD?or a CD of classical music which has all passed in Public Domain. If someone steals my CD, do I have no legal complaint, since I am not the true owner? Just how do you define ownership of expressions which artists have profited from? - --Al Date ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 05:16:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Ross Subject: Re: Joni & swing/bebop wonder what part of swing - - Ellington, Basie, Bbenny Ggooedman, Fletcher Henderson? not bad to return to chords and song form, but I think enough covers of that era's tunes have been done unless they're really wacked out rhythmically or harmonically. There is, if JM would take advantage of it, a momentum of generaating neew tunes within swing and bop styles that is very alivve still. That is: keep the chords but make up a new melody. Aan example is Ellington's 'In a Mellow Tune', which I think is based onn the chords to an older tune called Rose Room. Raarely also the melody's reharmonizzed, that is, givven new chords.'All the << Subject: RE: Re: The swing era and TTT On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Don Rowe wrote: > Mary adds ... > And anybody want to join me in really pushing boundaries and classifying > >"Raised on Robbery" as rock-swing?! I hear the latter in some of the > >musical and vocal phrasings ("shame, it's a shame, it's a crying > >shame"), not the beat. > too much flak for saying that boogie is, itself, a swing derivative, > though! well I think boogie was revived esp as a vocal form in the 40s but predates the swing era by aat least 20 yeears. theere arre piano rolls of boogiewoogie piaano plaayeers. earliest music youu might ccall swing: in the laate 20s. aand if you mean anddrews sisteers=type 'boogie',, sure, parts of robbery sound like it. but the rhythm section and horn sound much laateer inn sstyle to me. JM crreating this because 'tired of not being played on the radio', right? TR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 05:34:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Ross Subject: RE: NJC Impressionistic bologna > 'Goat dance?' Is that what I think it is? 'Bologna pushups' is what I > call it. hah! Anyhoo, the music I find most conducive is Ravel's 'Daphnis & > Chloe'. ssexier there isn't, if you like cloth, wateer,, plants.. .. as a musician though I can't havve ANY music on, sorry! I just get sucked in [as it were!] tto the sounds aand lose my partner. line my 14yrold niece copied from somebody's tune (wu-tang?): if you suck on my soul i'll lick your funky emotions TR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 05:41:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Ross Subject: Re: Comtemporary C. Poets and Socks Knocking (SJC) not so contemporary, but of this century: w s merwin marianne moore emily dickinson (sounds like 1960!) yeats paul muldoon garcia lorca some seamus innes some robert frost some ogden nash some jaames dickey some wallaace sstevens ssome rilke TR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 06:10:15 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: apologies (NJC) In case some others out there don't know this, many mail programs don't condemn you to "just delete." You can pre-configure a set of rules so that the NJC mail never even makes your in-box in the first place. You can send it to the trash automatically or you can send it to its own folder to be read at your leisure. Eudora and Pegasus perform this function well. I'm struggling with Microsoft Outlook and can't make it do what I want. > > Now that I know that NJC means not Joni content, Id like to > > eliminate those so that I dont have to read or fast forward thru > > them. How? > > I don't think you can't do that if you are on digest. It's easy if you > aren't. Just press delete! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:47:41 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: Stealing from Joni Al wrote: > I did not use the term "bullshit;" you did. I used the term "bullshirt," which everyone >knowsis a magical cloth placed on male cows > in order to protect their intellectual property. > > Please avoid introducing obscenities into our discussions, or the German govt will > come and arrest for you exercising free speech. > > --Al Date Al, Whatever you meant by using "bullshirt", I hereby apologize for wrongly blaming you. I will make sure things like that won't happen to me in the future. In particular, I will try harder to read carefully and think before I post something to the list. Winfried, who won't get arrested, because he's gonna be the one prosecuting! :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:35:37 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Shrinks I have no idea why your mail won't come to me direct. Try again? I will answer your mail when i know we can write eachother without bouncing! best colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:56:34 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: The Unfiltered Joni Mitchell - Part 6 (Mojo 8/98) Rob Jordan wrote: > > > [ Is anyone still reading this? Still 4 more pages to go!!! ] Are you kidding??!! With baited breath! One of the best interviews with Joni I've read in years. She really opened up. And the thrill of hearing her refer to Wally so nonchalantly. She is so right about the Gen Xer's as whiners. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:33:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: Re: TapeTree #7 ~ DAT Tape tree #7 looks wonderful! I can't wait to hear some of this stuff, especially the 1974 tape which includes songs I have never heard live and would not ever get the chance if it wasn't for the tape trees and people like simon who are so generous with their time. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:46:12 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Asking Joni RickieLee1@aol.com wrote: > or could there be a tinge of hypocrisy in the nearly unanimous decision to > "leave well enough alone" and not ask joni what she thinks of the tape trees > (a ludicrous idea at best...) because if she said no, we would all have to > cease and desist doing what we all want, A bit harsh. I think a good analogy is going to your mother at 15 and asking her if she minds if you continue to have sex. Shecertainly isn't going to leap for joy and approve. But certainly realizes that it's not going to stop and there's not much she can do about it. So why confront and stir things up? Jerry np: Rosemary Clooney - Mothers and Daughters ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:47:49 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Re: Tape trees and personal insults Les Irvin wrote: > On another note - it would be greatly appreciated if we could leave > personal insults off the JMDL. There is a big difference between a good, > healthy debate and a juvenile name-calling contest. > > I've half a mind to close the place down for a few days while everyone sits > in the corner with dunce caps on. Logistically I'm not sure I could swing > it though... :-) > > Ah common Les it's just the heat. > What we need at the JMDL is a big pool party to cool everyone down. Remember last August when it was very hot? We were on each others throats then as well. To the tune of Come In From The Cold. Back In 1987 with the temperature on the rise The JMDL was ablazing with flames falling from the skies. And with just one touch of our fingers We could spread anger like a wildfire through the wheat But all we really needed was To get out of the heat > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:48:12 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: TapeTreeS RickieLee1@aol.com wrote: > > > why is it not possible to disagree with each other about some fine point > without people bursting into flames? you might call it impassioned, but it > sounds pretty f-ing stupid to those of us with the good sense to lurk. what a > bunch of morons. > - ric "Physician, heal thyself." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:51:24 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: mojo Yeah? Well, I got my mojo workin'. Jerry Marsha wrote: > I like my mojos risin'... > > Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:49:51 -0400 From: Marsha Subject: Re: Tape trees and personal insults Les Irvin wrote: > I've half a mind to close the place down for a few days while everyone sits > in the corner with dunce caps on. But what would half a dunce cap look like? ;-D Marsha, (man it's hot outside, ain't it?) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:02:52 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: mojo Kenny Grant wrote: > Hey Jerry, > > Thanks for the research, but I don't think "magic spell" makes sense in the > context of Come In From The Cold. > > Is this just vulgar electricity > Is this the edifying fire > Does your smile's covert complicity > Debase as it admires > Are you just checkin' out your mojo > Or am I just fighting off growing old > All I ever wanted, was just to come in from the cold Ah. But the beauty of language is usage and change. The term is African in origin: charm or magic and "working" it. Like many terms in African American usage, the usage is cultural and separate. It became used as a man's penis "workin' magic." So "checkin' out your mojo" is not inconsistent, but evolutionary. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:08:09 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Tape trees and personal insults This sounds like a great idea to me! Then I wouldn't have to wait 10 minutes to download essays on cats and special milk. Marsha wrote: >Les Irvin wrote: > >> I've half a mind to close the place down for a few days while everyone sits >> in the corner with dunce caps on. > >But what would half a dunce cap look like? ;-D > >Marsha, (man it's hot outside, ain't it?) ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:18:14 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Tape trees and personal insults Marsha wrote: > Marsha, (man it's hot outside, ain't it?) I wonder how our texas residents are doing? Lori, Melidae, Niel(?). We have been getting daily reports of the heat devsastion in Texas. it must be terrible. here it has rained daily for two months and our weather is cool. Unlike last year where we sweltered in a long, long heatwave in the late 80's 90's. Extremely humid. Even my pussies panted-and they have only ever done that when in labour. colin - -- Living is the process whereby we create the structures we call meaning. http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk Carly Simon Discussion List http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 98 14:31:36 GMT From: kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant) Subject: Re: mojo hmmm, very interesting. You know, a week or two ago the meaning of "pachyderm" in Blue Motel Room was discussed, and we came to the conclusion that it meant "penis." Now the meaning of the word "mojo" from Come In From The Cold is being discussed, and we are again leaning toward "penis." This is starting to look like a trend :-) -Kenny On 7/22/98 10:02AM, Jerry Notaro wrote: Ah. But the beauty of language is usage and change. The term is African in origin: charm or magic and "working" it. Like many terms in African American usage, the usage is cultural and separate. It became used as a man's penis "workin' magic." So "checkin' out your mojo" is not inconsistent, but evolutionary. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:36:51 -0400 From: Heather Subject: Re: Ethics of Tape Trees (SJC) At 09:30 PM 7/21/98 -0700, you wrote: >I think everyone needs to lighten up - "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I >share the view also that Joni is aware these tape trees exist. They don't >hurt anyone and her true fans will still buy her CD's and go to her concerts >so let's stop trying to make a mountain out of a molehill! > > Yeah! Anne! I think molehills get in the way ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:38:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Subject: Re: apologies Hey Barb! Can't believe you are in for such a treat! I would recommend Hejira to start with. Then pop over to Night Ride Home. If you are a deep thinker and are ready for a real wild ride, grab Don Juan's Reckless Daughter. Any of these three will knock your socks off! You wrote: >I need a new Joni CD now! I have TI and >love it. I dont have anything between HOSL and TI. What does >the list recommend as the next album/CD that I should get? BTW, I love the fact that you NEED a new Joni CD. I almost wish I could turn back the clock and enjoy them fresh with you again. As it is, these three treasures withstand the test of time and I can revist them with a sense of wonder after not listening for a while. ENJOY! NP: Dreamland Take care, Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:38:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Subject: Mojo, rural, and Oprah (NJC) Patrick and Deb, Thank you so much for answering my silly question. Patrick wrote: i just bought the 7/98 of issue of mojo a couple of days ago and looked in tower ny and some other likely places tonight for the 8/98. i don't think it has crossed the pond yet. sue, i'll gladly score it for you when it gets here. Deb wrote: Borders and Barnes and Noble both carry it, but it's not out yet. I think the July issue just came out over here. Once again the true nature of listmembers comes through. Even though the occasional flames rise, there is a constant current of kindness that flows over the flames and calms things down. Patrick, I will accept your generous offer, and ask that you mail me privately with your address so I can put the check in the mail a.s.a.p. When writing about my rural area I should be more specific, huh? The village of Alanson consists of about 600 people in the winter and 1000 people in the summer. We live a half hour away from the nearest "city", which has no Borders, no Tower, no Barnes and Noble. Closest I am to one of the three mentioned is a Barnes and Noble in Traverse City, about an hour and a half drive south. This made me wonder...do most listers live in metropolitan areas? Are there any folks out there who decided to opt for "less pay for a view of the bay". That is what we locals call our choice to live in God's country. Following the recent threads of crime in N.O. made me want to post the latest incident that made news here - two teenage boys "borrowed" a golf cart from an area course and took it for a ride. I am not joking. That was the big news story last evening. Lastly, our list to Oprah is growing. I will wait until the end of the week to post the new list. Don't want to take up space. www.oprah.com is the address, two minutes is all it takes. NP: James Taylor - Hourglass Take care, Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:41:44 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Mojo part 5? I never received Mojo part 5. Could someone forward it to me please?! Thanks, Phyliss ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:10:41 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & swing/bebop In a message dated 7/22/98 5:18:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rosst@union.edu writes: << (aalthough this is bop), paarker's 'yaardbird ssuite' works great in 7/8 raather >> Hey Tom- I think you're the first to be able to type in swing/bebop rhythm! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:13:39 +-100 From: Hassan Zubairi Subject: VLJC: My Birthday - an apology Dear Gang Just an update on yesterday's post when I was in the depths of something which I hadn't had for years. (called Depression, I think) Unfortunately I was near a computer at the time and needed to get things off my chest and it really shouldn't have been on (my chest as well as the post). Kevin Spacey who did a talk at my drama school last week said that it happens to him all the time - a great surge of uncontrollable melancholia sweeps and sucks you in like the undertow of you alter ego, you inner self that you ignore that suddenly decides that youare a bad person and that you don't deserve. I apologise for offloading to complete strangers, I'm glad I didn't get bad responses (Thanks Mark D!) from people. I listened to For The Roses (the song) in my head over and over and I came up with: GET A LIFE, SLEEP MORE, keep on keeping on. When there are no more words to say, Sing. 'my talking as it rambled revealed suspicious reasoning my visit seemed to darken him I came in as bright as a neon light and I burned out right there before him.' Doing a play in London, at my old drama school to be precise. For a director's showcase. Keeping on keeping on. Much Joni (you can use it Mark - with out the little rabbits - our quotation marks as they should be called) JamieJake ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:36:26 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: J-Cards/Mac People Hi everyone- I have just finished creating the J Cards for Tape Tree #7. Check out my page where you can download the software and the J Cards: http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/jcard.html NP-Come In From The Cold in my head ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:54:15 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Joni Tribute Album & Possitilities Guess I'm in the mood to stir up something Joni-related after all the vegetarianism, grammar, pirated-bootlegged-tape-treed-copyrighted ethics, name-calling, sex education, teen violence hub-ub. So those of you who remember the "Beat of Black Wings/Janet Jackson" thread, here's my track list for a potential Joni tribute album. Amend and append away list -- 1. Morning Morgantown -- Shawn Colvin 2. Raised on Robbery -- Chrissie Hynde 3. Blue Motel Room -- Bonnie Raitt 4. Underneath the Streetlight -- Sophie B. Hawkins 5. Both Sides Now -- Tori Amos 6. Snakes and Ladders -- Madonna (w/Sting) 7. The Three Great Stimulants -- Stevie Nicks 8. Furry Sings the Blues -- Julia Fordham 9. Song for Sharon -- Natalie Merchant 10. The Chinese Cafe -- Carly Simon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:07:39 -0700 From: Jill Tamada Subject: Re: Joni Tribute Album & Possitilities Just curious as to why there are only women listed? - -Jill Don Rowe wrote: > > Guess I'm in the mood to stir up something Joni-related after all the > vegetarianism, grammar, pirated-bootlegged-tape-treed-copyrighted > ethics, name-calling, sex education, teen violence hub-ub. So those of > you who remember the "Beat of Black Wings/Janet Jackson" thread, here's > my track list for a potential Joni tribute album. Amend and append away > list -- > > 1. Morning Morgantown -- Shawn Colvin > 2. Raised on Robbery -- Chrissie Hynde > 3. Blue Motel Room -- Bonnie Raitt > 4. Underneath the Streetlight -- Sophie B. Hawkins > 5. Both Sides Now -- Tori Amos > 6. Snakes and Ladders -- Madonna (w/Sting) > 7. The Three Great Stimulants -- Stevie Nicks > 8. Furry Sings the Blues -- Julia Fordham > 9. Song for Sharon -- Natalie Merchant > 10. The Chinese Cafe -- Carly Simon > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:13:16 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Joni Tribute Album & Possitilities - -Cold Blue Steel/Shawn Colvin - -Refuge of The Roads/Bonnie Raitt - -Would DEFINITELY like to hear Natalie play/sing Song For Sharon - -This Flight Tonight/Jimmy Page, with a little "Bron-Y-Aur Stomp" added to it - -Furry Sings The Blues/Neil Young, with John Popper on Harmonica! ;) - -Little Green/Jewel??? At 8:54 AM -0700 7/22/98, Don Rowe wrote: >Guess I'm in the mood to stir up something Joni-related after all the >vegetarianism, grammar, pirated-bootlegged-tape-treed-copyrighted >ethics, name-calling, sex education, teen violence hub-ub. So those of >you who remember the "Beat of Black Wings/Janet Jackson" thread, here's >my track list for a potential Joni tribute album. Amend and append away >list -- > >1. Morning Morgantown -- Shawn Colvin >2. Raised on Robbery -- Chrissie Hynde >3. Blue Motel Room -- Bonnie Raitt >4. Underneath the Streetlight -- Sophie B. Hawkins >5. Both Sides Now -- Tori Amos >6. Snakes and Ladders -- Madonna (w/Sting) >7. The Three Great Stimulants -- Stevie Nicks >8. Furry Sings the Blues -- Julia Fordham >9. Song for Sharon -- Natalie Merchant >10. The Chinese Cafe -- Carly Simon > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:17:32 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Joni Tribute Album & Possitilities Jill writes -- >Just curious as to why there are only women listed? > >-Jill > Hey, Sting's in there on the duet w/Madonna. Guess I was thinking off the top of my head ... Let's see -- how 'bout ... 11. How Do You Stop -- Chris Isaak 12. Beat of Black Wings -- The Artist 13. River -- Bruce Springsteen 14. Free Man in Paris -- Paul Simon 15. Paprika Plains -- Bruce Hornsby (more for the piano skills), might like to hear Lisa Loeb on vocals here. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:35:26 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: J-Cards/Mac People Thanks Mark. Worked great. Will be a big help to us all. Jerry np: Aionoshi Festival Mark Domyancich wrote: > Hi everyone- > > I have just finished creating the J Cards for Tape Tree #7. Check out my > page where you can download the software and the J Cards: > > http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/jcard.html > > NP-Come In From The Cold in my head > > ____________________________________ > | Mark Domyancich | > | Harpua@revealed.net | > | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | > |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:48:36 -0400 From: sshaw@bustoff.bwh.harvard.edu Subject: mojo i think it means something like a charm, or spell, or sexuality, or sexual attractiveness (that ole black magic) - -Sunil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:22:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Ross Subject: Re: Joni & swing/bebop solid, jackson. .. . actuaally it's tom sr's peculiar keyboaard: emeralda's visiting her grandparents in Coloraado! Tom Ross The Cormack & Ross Band's new CD 'global jazz songs' album *HORSE of STONE*, made possible by David Crosby, has excerpts and info at http://www.barncard.com/cormack-ross.html Mizazi Recordings Box 542 Middletown, CT 06457 "Sublime. . . fascinating vocal interplay, virtuoso instrumental work and deeply creative songwriting that blends classical Asian styles with contemporary and traditional Western motifs. . . had this actually been released and recognized when it was recorded, today's music might have a wholly different sound." J. Eric Smith, METROLAND On Wed, 22 Jul 1998 TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/22/98 5:18:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rosst@union.edu > writes: > > << (aalthough this is bop), > paarker's 'yaardbird ssuite' works great in 7/8 raather >> > > Hey Tom- > I think you're the first to be able to type in swing/bebop rhythm! > > Terry > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:10:41 -0500 From: Diana Duncan Subject: Re: J-Cards/Mac People At 10:36 AM 7/22/1998 -0500, Mark Domyancich wrote: >I have just finished creating the J Cards for Tape Tree #7. Check out my >page where you can download the software and the J Cards: >http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/jcard.html Mark, Is this a mac thing? What is a J-Card? I thought about posting to you privately but decieded that if it's for the tape trees everyone should know..who doesn't, like me. I went to your web site but it doesn't give info.. I don't want to download something I can't use. (pc user) Thanks, Diana ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:29:17 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: J-Cards/Mac People Mark titled his subject line for Mac People. Thanks to him there is now a way to get them electronically. I'm sure someone will work on the past cards now that the software is available. The JMDL site has zipped J-cards for Mac-deprived (pc) users already. Also, simon has kindly sent multiple labels on his own to the past branch leaders to send to their leaves. Jerry np: TI Diana Duncan wrote: Mark, > Is this a mac thing? What is a J-Card? I thought about posting to you > privately but decieded that if it's for the tape trees everyone should > know..who doesn't, like me. > I went to your web site but it doesn't give info.. I don't want to download > something I can't use. (pc user) > Thanks, > Diana ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:38:33 -0400 From: Heather Subject: Re: J-Cards/Mac People >Is this a mac thing? What is a J-Card? I thought about posting to you >privately but decieded that if it's for the tape trees everyone should >know..who doesn't, like me. >I went to your web site but it doesn't give info.. I don't want to download >something I can't use. (pc user) Mark - I had trouble also. Can you give some instructions? This is what happened in my case: When I clicked on the JCARD spot my software wanted me to save it in a folder. My options were: *.HTML or *.TXT. All I got was jibberish when I opened them up (??) Also - I now can't delete the "Stuff-It" thing from my hard drive. Please advise. THANKS! (this was a nice thing for you to create - I just want to be able to use it :-) Heather ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:23:58 -0500 From: "Daugherty, Stephen" Subject: Bruised, Abused, whaz da Uze? Not wanting to sound like an L.A. riots victim, don't we all get chastened and harangued enough in our daily lives? Lines of pushy people, guns fired down the street, maddened drivers, curt salespersons, anger, anger, anger. Life is tending daily to be just a little nastier, unless you find a snuggle-cushion of security! On this list, we have Joni, a realist, observer of life. One that can look unflinchingly at all aspects of the good and bad. Yet she uses respect and deference in her handling of the issues. Discussions and comments she makes are always punched with a little humor !! ;>) One of my cushions is this list. I am not here to enter into social commentary and flaming issues. Keep a sense of humor and deference when making your contributions. I love almost all types of people, and differences make it fun. But sometimes not here. When posting, remember you go to the ears of many, not to the one or two that you wish to drive the point. Or maybe that is your point - say it to ALL!!!! Go to your intended recipient's mail slot for transcribes of non-JMDL matters that might offend. Those who really are angry and want discourse, well, get your soap box, stand in Hyde Park and have at it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:48:49 -0400 From: Heather Subject: NJC - New England Jonifest! Hi Everyone! Just wanted to remind you all of the up and coming Jonifest at Ashara's. We plan to have a good ol' time! We're working on a TTT theme. Please decide as soon as possible. We're planning on lots-o-Joni music, singing and dancing (maybe a tango?) coupled with good food. Hope to see many of you there!!! I took the liberty of copying this to all of you again. NEW ENGLAND LABOR DAY WEEKEND JONIFEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When: Saturday, September 5, 1998 Where: Ashara's house- north of Boston Time: 3:00 PM Departure: Noonish? on Sunday For: JMDLers only What: An old-fashioned New England barbeque, sleep-over, and Joni sing-a- long! Accomodations: 1) Limited sleep-over accomodations at the house, on a first- come, first-serve basis. Please e-mail as soon as possible if you are interested in reserving a space! 2) Hotel accomodations: The Comfort Inn in Danvers, MA, has offered a special price of $98/night which includes breakfast. It is only a few miles down the road, and easy to get to. The phone number is 978-777-4621, and you must make the reservation by August 5th to receive this rate. The rooms are reserved under "Ashara". If you want to stay at the hotel, and would like a roommate to share expenses, please let me know as soon as possible, and I will put you in touch with someone. ***What to bring:*** 1) If you are planning to sleep at the house, please bring a sleeping bag, towels, etc. If you are coming in by plane, the sleeping bag will not be neccessary, but you must let me know that information as soon as possible. 2) Money for dinner and breakfast the next morning if you are staying overnight. As soon as we have more information on that, we will let you know how much to bring. 3) If you want to drink alcoholic beverages, please bring your own bottle. Soft drinks will be provided. 4) If you are planning to go to the beach, which is very close to here, please bring a bathing suit and anything else you may need. 5) Musical instruments, lyrics, etc. What *not* to bring: 1) non-list members 2) recreational drugs of *any* kind 3) Note: all smoking (legal cigarettes only) will have to be done outside. ***What to do if you are interested (even remotely):*** 1) RSVP as soon as possible, preferably by August 5th. 2) Please send me the following information: Your *real* name, address, phone number, and work address and number, and the name, address, and phone number of someone to contact in an emergency. Also, please send a list of any list members that you have met in person. 3) Please let me know how you are arriving here, and whether you need driving directions. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:28:08 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: Kevin Hall (NJC) sorry everyone! if you are not Kevin Hall or do not know his e-mail address: DELETE NOW! if you are Kevin, or know his e-mail address, please write to me privately. thanks! Sherrie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:29:03 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: J-Cards/Mac People Hi Diana- Up until a few days ago, Les only had J-Card software for PCs. I asked him if I could do it for Mac people and he agreed. A J-Card is that little liner note in audio cassettes. The PC software is available at: http://www.jmdl.com/tape/ I think! Diana wrote: >Mark, >Is this a mac thing? What is a J-Card? I thought about posting to you >privately but decieded that if it's for the tape trees everyone should >know..who doesn't, like me. >I went to your web site but it doesn't give info.. I don't want to download >something I can't use. (pc user) >Thanks, >Diana ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:07:16 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Re: J-Cards/Mac People Mark Domyancich wrote: > Hi Diana- > > Up until a few days ago, Les only had J-Card software for PCs. I asked him > if I could do it for Mac people and he agreed. > > A J-Card is that little liner note in audio cassettes. > > The PC software is available at: > > http://www.jmdl.com/tape/ > > I think! > > The link doesn't work any more. Maybe since Les changed his server..... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:10:55 -0400 (EDT) From: picard3@webtv.net (Sherelle Smith) Subject: Hi All (SJC) Just popping in to say hello to all. I've been reading the digests about boot-legging vs tape trees. When I got my digital cable last month, the cable company said that I was allowed to tape pay per view specials as long as they are not sold to anyone. I found that very interesting. I have to agree that re-recording an artist is allright as long as someone does not try to make money on that person's name without their permission. Sometimes security is tight at concerts because the artist doesn't know which fan wants a record of them for posterity and which fan is trying to make a buck on their name. I've thoroughly enjoyed the digests, name calling and all! : ) Seriously though, the suggestion to take a step back before sending a post is a very good one. Once something is said, it's very hard to take back. I have to change horses here and tell you about an artist I'm listening to right now. His name is Chico De Barge and yes, he is from the singing family of the same name. The cd is called, Long Time No See. The song which attracted me to this cd is called "No Guarantees." It's about a young black man with a so-so job who poses a question to his love interest which asks what she values more; a nice house and jewelry or the love of someone with very little money but a committment to make the relationship work. This is a deeply personal and sensual cd. Chico was recently released from prison; I'm not sure what his crime was, though. He also sings about losing a brother to drugs. The degree of separation that connects this to Joni is his rendition of Trouble Man; it's very good. He has a vocal style very much like the late Marvin Gaye and his music also reminds me of Marvin's sensual side. I have to skip the song, "Virgin"; just a little too hot for my blood, but he's a fantastic artist with a unique flavor to his songs, and gut wrenching honesty about his feelings, sexual or otherwise. His brother El De Barge helped him out on a few songs. I wish him well in his success. Another good note on a personal level; I just received my first promotion and will start my new position Monday. I almost did a cheer and a handstand in my interview. I am now grouped with the "administrative" personnel (sp?) and I'm very excited about it. My new position also gives me a chance to travel to other company sites that are being built to set up similiar departments. So all is going well on the job front. Take care everyone! Sherelle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:55:08 -0700 From: Craig Harris Subject: Re: Jcards and CaseLiner The URL on your page for D/loading Caseliner on Les's page is broken. I sent him this URL where you can D/load from: http:// user.mc.n... eda/clinr592.zip. It's for Win95, and was released on June 1st. >Craig ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:25:13 EDT From: BH1248@aol.com Subject: Re: Sara Lee (NJC) In a message dated 7/22/98 1:02:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Kfries@cyberramp.net writes: << Sara Lee? Is this the same lady who played bass with Robert Fripp in the League of Gentleman in the early 80's? Inquiring minds would like to >> I believe she played with Gang of Four and the B-52's also, if my memory is correct. Bob NP: Yoko Ono, "Onobox" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:27:28 +0100 From: Rob Jordan Subject: The Unfiltered Joni Mitchell - Part 7 (Mojo 8/98) I love Edith Piaf and I love Billie Holiday, but there's no one of that stature among this crop that's come up... would you help with this? Because otherwise I'm gonna spend this whole press tour with them pinning me, and me having to deflect - Well, it's nice. Because some of it, it's like culture. Like if you look at children's toys. I have a grandson now. Toys are supposed to teach a child the culture. It's frightening to see these killer crushers, the destructive nature of the toys they're exposed to, the violent nature of the toys. This is very bad for culture. Now art can reflect culture or it can deflect culture. I took the stance to sort through my own bullshit and meshugo, so to speak, for something that was useful to me - my own silver linings. If you could describe the quandary you were in accurately, with some saving grace, so that it was worth it to them to suffer with you, or suffer with the character you're playing - like a good play it had some illumination to it. I don't see much illumination in the work that's coming up. > Could you give me on example of the first case? Whose work in particular? > Yours or anyone else's. Well, you'd have to ask different people. For different people it's different things. [The new lyric] "happiness is the best facelift", for instance. I said that to my boyfriend one day, and he said write that down - or it would've gone up into the air, you know? I think that's a useful phrase. I got a letter from a guy once who had broken up with his wife. She had had an affair and he hadn't - they were about to get back together, and he couldn't forgive her. And he was putting together a tape of everything they were listening to when they were courting - and they were going to the lake of their courtship. And he said, the funny thing was when they were going together I was her music, and he was putting all of his music and her music together. But in the final wash, the only thing that was keeping him from blowing this relationship, because he was so mad at her, was "you can't find your goodness because you've lost your heart". And it was that line that was going over and over in his head, so that he didn't just tell her off when she got to the door - "You had an affair and I didn't" (laughs)- and blow the whole thing that he was attempting to set up. People are always telling me that I saved their life or I changed their life. And lately I've taken to saying, How? Because I have a funny look on my face, they go, "Oh, you hear that so much." And I say, No, the funny look on my face is because I'm wondering, How? Well they always pull a different line. Some of them I wouldn't even think had that kind of power, but it's a little phrase stuck in there somewhere that was just the thing they needed to keep from drowning at a certain moment. I think you'd find it would be different things for different people. When I see contemporary songs quoted by contemporary music critics, they say, "This is a great lyric," and they'll isolate a line, and I'II think, What's great about that? There's no nourishment in that line. There's not even alliteration or linguistic colour, you know? "Everybody's gay." You know - it's a statement, but there's no art. I mean, OK, am i missing something, is it minimalism here? Is it Barnet Newman? Is it all distilled down to its simplest essence and therefore it's valid? Or do people just not know how to express themselves very well? Are they not thinking? Have they been praised too much in the school system, because the school system changed because they didn't want to give them an inferiority complex! So they gave them an A when they really shouldn't have had one? So they think that's good, and now everybody thinks that's good? I mean, the standards have just dropped so far from Dickens, so far from Kipling. These are masterful thinkers and writers, rich in character... > If someone new emerged today and wrote songs with as much depth > and meaning as, say, the material you wrote in the '60s, would > there be - in marketplace terms - even an audience for them - one > that wasn't tied to some weird nostalgia? It seems like all we left this generation was shock value. And they're very, very concerned about bodily excretions, in terms of their art and what they say. It seems like that's all we left them or something. I heard, there's a new singer-songwriter - you might know who this is - someone was touting, "Oh, this great new singer-songwriter," and he's got a line, "Strap on the dildo, honey, I want to get fucked in the ass tonight, " or something. I was listening to Noel Coward lost night - incredible, incredible craft, incredible wit, incredible social commentary with humour. Stylistically, the language is a bit more formal than certainly this generation would understand. But beautiful and correct, and internal rhyme, and so much skill and so much to say without being heavy. I think that's what happened to Bob and I: not to take a poke at drama and the dramatic song, because it's important, and Piaf was one of my first childhood heroes - but I know within the context of my generation I was considered much too dramatic for most people's tastes. > What was the stereotype or misperception about you that bothered > you the most? I guess "that folk singer". Because it's so ignorant. The only thing I've taken from folk music in my art since I began to record is the long lines of the folk songs, to give you the space to put some text to it. A longer line than, "Embrace me, da-dah-dah." [Larry] Klein, from time to time, would provide me with the melody with short lines, and I'd say, Oh, let me parquet words to that just for the exercise, like the Jimmy Swaggart piece, Tax Free. Tax Free had really short, little lines, and I chose to collaborate with him on that just for the challenge - "Front rooms/Back rooms/Slide into tables/Crow into bathrooms." But generally, "I picked the morning paper off the floor," that's long folk-line singing. But my chords - - nobody in the coffeehouses ever played chords like those. And they're not jazz chords either. Wayne Shorter came in on - what song was it? Ethiopia? - and he said, "What are these chords? These are not piano chords and these are not guitar chords - what are these chords ?" And he waded into it like a champ. But harmonically speaking, I'm in my own kind of world. > Did you expect your audience to grow along with you? I'd hoped. I didn't expect anything. One would hope that it would find an audience. > Do you feel that it has? It's hard to say, because the last 20 years I've had no record company support, no radio support - the marketplace has been denied me, so I think a lot of those records, there's a bigger audience for it than it received. Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm really deserves a big audience, as big as anything the contemporary females have. It's not difficult music. I was disappointed that the company couldn't somehow or other - I was disappointed in the industry at large, that had closed me out from the marketplace, so to speak, that no one would allow me the normal venues that are open to announce that you have product out, with pride. Or that nobody saw. Except Janet Jackson saw it - and she touted it in her interview. > Was that a good thing for you? Yeah, that was - the best review I got for that record was from Janet Jackson. Yeah. And it really pleased me, it touched me. > Do you think the market access you're talking abaut is more a > function of age or sex? Both. It's more than that. I'm a long distance runner. Miles was a long distance runner. And I'd have to look up his birthdate, but there was always that restlessness to never rest on your laurels and become a human jukebox. Miles, to the end, was moving forward, still searching and exploring, like Picasso. I belong to that restless camp, you know. Not everybody does, probably because of the stars, something as simple as that - the moment you popped out (laughs). Go figure. But the industry, to answer your question more tersely, is basically designed to make of you something disposable. That's the way mercantilism in America works. And they get the new improved version of the product. The attention span in this country is shorter, I think, than most. In other countries, if something's good, they're loyal to it. But here, good or not, people get off at a certain point. It's because we're trained - even more so than ever, this batch of babies coming up with the TV - to fear not to be hip. Well hip is a herd mentality, so anything too adventuresome, people are afraid to be the first, or they'll stick out too much. And usually anything-that's innovative is not hip, and the copycat gets it all. Once they've heard it the second time, the copier gets the mass approval, because it's kind of familiar by that time. it's been run past them once already.  ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #272 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?