From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #271 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, July 22 1998 Volume 03 : Number 271 The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: TapeTreeS [RickieLee1@aol.com] Re: apologies [Phyliss Ward ] Re: mojo [TerryM2442@aol.com] RE: apology [trxschwa ] RE: unfiltered Joni (hey, jc for sue!) [trxschwa ] JMDL [catman ] tape tree [Wolfebite@aol.com] sorting email, and what (jc) to buy next [trxschwa ] Oprah [Leslie Mixon ] RE: taping concerts (LONG) ["Miller, John P" ] Re: taping concerts (LONG) ["Kevin Fries" ] Tape trees and personal insults [Les Irvin ] Joni and Oprah [Bmcd@aol.com] Re: mojo [Seanapper@aol.com] NJC: Mojo definition ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Missing Posts ~ Repeat Post [simon@icu.com] Re: TapeTreeS [Bolvangar@aol.com] Re: Asking Joni [IVPAUL42@aol.com] "JMDL TapeTree Faq" Repost, pt-1 [simon@icu.com] Re: mojo [IVPAUL42@aol.com] "JMDL TapeTree Faq" Repost, pt-2 [simon@icu.com] joni and oprah [Bmcd@aol.com] Shrinks [Bmcd@aol.com] a post from Ric [simon@icu.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:11:38 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: TapeTreeS oh colin. shaddup! go drink some special milk... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:10:41 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: apologies Hi Barbara - this is Phyliss, who you met at the Pauley concert barbara wood wrote: > What is a treetape? tapetree? It's where we share tapes of Joni concerts, radio shows, etc. for blank tapes and postage. Check out JMDL.com for more details. Tape tree 7 is coming soon! watch your posts! > Now that I know that NJC means not Joni content, Id like to > eliminate those so that I dont have to read or fast forward thru > them. How? I don't think you can't do that if you are on digest. It's easy if you aren't. Just press delete! > I cant wait untill TTT. I need a new Joni CD now! I have TI and > love it. I dont have anything between HOSL and TI. What does > the list recommend as the next album/CD that I should get? I recommend Hejira first (my personal favorite), then Night Ride Home. I'm jealous you get to hear them for the first time! Phyliss ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:16:20 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: mojo In a message dated 7/21/98 8:27:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, docnurse@VoyagerOnline.net writes: << mo.jo n, pl mojoes or mojos [prob. of > African origin; akin to Fulani > moco'o medicine man] (1926): a magic > spell, hex, or charm; broadly: magical > power I like my mojos risin'... >> I always thought that mojo also had a sexual connotation- one's sexual prowess. No? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:04:56 -0400 From: trxschwa Subject: RE: apology hey don, no surprise to anyone, but i feel very strongly about individuals deciding what's appropriate for the list. your contributions (especially recently) have been thoughtful and moving, even when i've disagreed, and i wouldn't want you to start self-censoring. that would be a great wrong. sorry mark, but you're wrong on this one. but i sure can identify with the heat. patrick in ny, sweltering np - mimi - soak with a push from dougie. michael y, you would LOVE this. - -----Original Message----- From: Don Sloan [SMTP:donbvs@lightspeed.net] Sent: Monday, July 20, 1998 9:24 PM To: JMDL Cc: Mark Domyancich Subject: apology Sorry... point taken. My apologies to all for over-fueling this thread. Don > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:11:32 -0500 > From: Mark Domyancich > Subject: Morality, Teen Ethics > > Listen, people. There are other mailing lists to bitch about stuff that > doesn't involve Joni. Go find them. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:33:13 -0400 From: trxschwa Subject: RE: unfiltered Joni (hey, jc for sue!) hey sue, i just bought the 7/98 of issue of mojo a couple of days ago and looked in tower ny and some other likely places tonight for the 8/98. i don't think it has crossed the pond yet. sue, i'll gladly score it for you when it gets here. every word that rob has posted from the has been against the law, and yet i suspect mojo will have quite a few american sales that it wouldn't have otherwise. our media outlets know this, that's why they take a passive stance on a lot of these republishing issues. you all realize, don't you, that nearly every single article or review published on jm.com or jmdl.com is in copyright violation? and of course, all the lyrics. just about every lyric on the web. our laws regarding copyright and republishing have not kept up with the reality of this age. just blindly saying, 'it's the law, so it must be morally correct' is just not responsible or realistic. and not intelligent. ASCAP, the major songwriters rights-protection guild, rece ntly made a public-relations blunder by suggesting enforcement of royalty payments for girl scout troups. can you imagine telling some girls at camp, 'if you want to sing 'big yellow taxi' around a campfire, you're going to have to pay'? their position was legal but stupid. i believe the harry fox agency's stand will be soon seen as legal but stupid, as well. that said, i'm not in favor of a wholesale re-writing of the laws. i like the 'ok if not for profit' model. i like seeing precedent established in that direction. i really do think there's a huge difference between dubbing tapes for blanks and postage (of material that the artist will never release commercially) and selling cds (of same) to pay off your burner. is 'selfish' that difficult a concept, these days? and i don't believe my jmdl tape tree acquisitions have cost joni a penny. the economics of the industry, as joni is living them, do not at all support a for-profit release of, say, the gene autry concert. maybe ani's label could release a bunch of six-dollar live concert cassettes, but not joni's label. finally, should we respect her wishes as an artist? i am the proud owner through the list of both versions of 'man from mars', and both were directed to me through criminal acts (don, i hope to give you a more thoughtful response regarding criminality, but i hope you see my point). i wouldn't be without them. and, like every jmdler i've spoken with, i feel that the 'grace of my heart' version is better, truer. i value, as a music-lover, the forces that have allowed me to know that. and joni has taken a hit- she probably won't get the songwriter royalty from the soundtrack from me. i just have to hope that the first-day figures on ttt will comfort her. patrick np - mimi goese - soak ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 03:40:42 +0100 From: catman Subject: JMDL When I first joined this list, I was completely new to the world of computers and email. I had no idea what would happen if I subbed to this list. The idea of getting email from people I did not know seemed weird. When I joined I was on a downswing(that's the problem with bipolarity-you pay dearly for the upswing-which is great fun) and cosequently my first few months were dodgy. However, miracles do happen. A major one has happened for me thru this list. I found myself. i found my humanity. i discovered I was not so different after all from others, something I had been told I was all my life and I believed it. I realised I was not going to gain perfection so quit trying and am more relaxed. I don't wish to be rude to anyone here, but I also saw thru the writing of others that i really didn't need to be so hard on myself! I have learned to accept change(something I always hated-I lived in 48 different houses growing up) thru the comings and goings of people thru this list. I learned I was intelligent after all. i have no education beyond 15 yrs of age, well no formal one anyhow.( tho in one manic phase i fancied myself a Dr and went to Uni as a mature(!) student. trouble is I crashed and remember nothing of that year. I was studying psychology!!! I also got accepted at the Corona Drama School during another manic phase but had crashed by the time school started. I was so sure I'd get that Oscar) I learned I could express myself and discovered the very real benefits of that. i learned I am as liked and disliked as I was when i wasn't myself-so I don't try to be what i am not anymore. Importantly, I found that the majority of people are good and nice( i believ we all have good inside-it's just hidden in some). Now i would not have said before joining this list. For six months now, I have been stable, happy, comfortable with myself, panic attack free, no urges to cut myself, no desire to die. I have never felt like this. I am med free which of itself is deliverence. I usually only ever felt good when i was high as a kite-manic. this is very different. A bit scary cos it's new and I can't help wonder if it will last. After 39yrs on a rolller coaster, the flat feels funny! But i intend getting used to it. When Les started this list, when you lot joined, i am sure nothing was further from your mind than getting bombarded with email from some loony in England. However, les and everyone else on this list have been instrumental in my new phase of healing this past almost a year. I am not exaggerating or being gushy. I tell you the truth you have all helped me heal. Even those that haven't excatly led with their good side. People have written, out of the blue, to tell me how much they enjoy my posts, people have written out of the blue to tell me shut the fuck up, people have written telling how intelligent, insightful sensitive or whatever(all very nice but not as true as I would like) and other people have written telling me what a selfpitying manipulative little shit I am(not so nice and not as true as they would like). However, the nice mails far outweigh the ill intentioned. All this because I love some middle aged broad who doesn't exactly cheer me up! Of course without Joni, I wouldn't be here. And maybe the 'wise ones' would have had their way and niether would I. I am particulary pleased, surprised, that I have been allowed to remain on this list, particularly when i get on a roll and post 40 mails to the list in one evening. And no i cannot promise that will never happen again! I f the above has come across like a load of gushy tosh, blame it on my flu and ganga tea. best wishes to all colin, catman, loony queen - -- Living is the process whereby we create the structures we call meaning. http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk Carly Simon Discussion List http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:05:52 EDT From: Wolfebite@aol.com Subject: tape tree my extremities are tingling at this latest offering!!!!! wolfie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:48:12 -0400 From: trxschwa Subject: sorting email, and what (jc) to buy next > Now that I know that NJC means not Joni content, Id like to > eliminate those so that I dont have to read or fast forward thru > them. How? hey barbara, if you're not on digest, most email clients available these days have some sort of 'rules' feature that can allow you to send certain email to certain places based on the header. all messages from joni.smoe straight to your joni folder ('cause you know you're not supposed to read them at work!) and all njc straight to your recycle bin, or trash can. do some exploring. consider another client. >I recommend Hejira first (my personal favorite), then Night Ride Home. I'm jealous you get to hear them for the first time! and so am i, two of my favorite albums by anyone. and since you saw pauley, two albums that will lifetimes of joy for you >Phyliss and patrick! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:49:42 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Oprah You can add my name to the list of JMDLers who've requsted Joni as a guest on the Oprah show. While I was at it, I also requested Etta James (who's on my top 5 list of favorite female singers). Leslie Leslie Mixon http://www.cruzio.com/~stevem ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:08:54 -0700 From: "Miller, John P" Subject: RE: taping concerts (LONG) On July 18, Michael Yarbrough asked: >Perhaps someone knows better than I, but is taping of concerts actually >illegal? I'm replying only with regard to U.S. copyright law. Also, as with most issues of law, this is long, probably more than some of you wish to know. :) While I am not pretending to offer legal advice here, I have considerable experience addressing the legal issues of taping live shows (I tape about 60 per year), having obtained frequent advice from a law firm specializing in protecting artists and the 'pubic presentation' of their 'intellectual and/or artistic property'. I also work closely with several artists, their publicists, and/or their record label (note this work is for fun, and is not paid work). The answer to Michael's question: 'is taping of concerts actually illegal?' is... "usually illegal, but not always"... it depends on several factors. Prior to GATT (General Agreement on Tarrifs and Trade, Dec 1994), the *act* of taping a live show was not illegal at the federal level, though some states had statutes. Michael added: >I thought it was up to the discretion of the venue (hi Marsha!) >and the artist. And/or the artist's label... and/or artist's management. I personally know several artists who sometimes grant permission to tape, but warn the taper to use 'stealth' techniques because their label does not allow taping. OTOH, a *venue* might make it against their *rules*, but breaking a venue's *rules* would not get you arrested unless you resisted (1) confiscation of your gear, or (2) resisted eviction from the venue (and the venue is allowed to declare either/both actions as their 'policy' towards tapers). Even since GATT, the venue cannot arrest you for breaking their *rules*, but they could hold you for arrest by artist (or artist management... in other words, the owner(s) of the product) under GATT law. Since GATT, *unauthorized* recording of live performance makes you eligible for an arrest, though few venues (or artists) will waste their time and money... but I know at least one artist (HEART... especially Ann Wilson) who will have their management drag you backstage where you will be given a severe tongue-lashing (by Ann herself!) while taking your tape and/or evicting you from the show. Note that for their own protection, performers are usually advised by their attorneys to publicly state before the show that anti-taping laws will be enforced, and this declaration can be (1) announced on the ticket, (2) a sign at the venue entrance or (3) preferably a verbal announcement at beginning of show... I was in an LA club this weekend that warned "you are being observed via video monitors and any taping by you, witnessed by us, will cause eviction from the club". There are two ways for taping to be 'authorized'... _explicit_ permission, and _implicit_ permission. Explicit permission exists when an artist gives *you* specific permission to tape a specific show, and many artists will grant permission if asked. Note that this permission is rarely for 'soundboard' taping (which is superb [almost studio] audio quality, with little noise from the audience)... generally 'audience' tapes are permitted because the audience cheering/talking/etc makes the show so noisy it's not likely to be worth selling. Explicit permission is also granted when an artist reserves seating for "taper's tickets", and several well-known bands offer taper-seating where tapers can tape openly, often with mic stands which raise the mic above the surrounding crowd noise. Explicit permission is legally very clear, but implicit permission can be vague, with many opportunities for a misunderstanding between artist, taper, and venue. Implicit permission exists when an artist has a long-held tradition and reputation for allowing taping and has not made any public statement withdrawing that support. One good example is Ani DiFranco, who's been seen to observe some fan in the audience with a recorder, ask to have the recorder passed to her, then speak into the recorder saying "this is an 'official' Ani DiFranco bootleg", then return the recorder to the fan. Another good example is the Indigo Girls, who are on record supporting *audience* (not soundboard) taping as long as the venue allows it... there are even stories of fans getting fresh batteries for their recorders from Sara Lee (IG's bassist) or other members of the IG crew. A venue is *not* obliged to honor an artist's acceptance of taping, though many venues will allow the artist to establish their own policy for a specific show. Venues often have blanket policies prohibiting taping, keeping a sign with their policy at the entrance, but they may *still* allow taping if the artist (such as the Indigo Girls) alert venue security that they don't mind taping. When I taped the Indigo Girls in Berkeley last July 97, venue security was searching for liquor being smuggled into the site and they felt my recorder inside my fanny pack... they asked me "is that your recorder I feel?", and when I said "yes" they told me "it's OK tonight, you can take your recorder inside"... this occurred immediately in front of the venue's big sign which said "no audio or video taping allowed". An even more vague scenario is the artist who gives you explicit permission but says "my manager (or label) does not like taping, so please be discreet", and this happens to me several times each year... this puts the taper at some disadvantage because I think most tapers (at least *this* taper) prefer not to get the artist in conflict with their label by claiming "but she said I could tape". Yes, since Dec 1994, GATT declares (among other things) that unauthorized taping of live shows is illegal and makes you *eligible* for arrest... in practice, venues and/or artist management will usually only confiscate your equipment (be sure to get a receipt so you can retrieve it after the show), but in some cases will offer you 'authorization' if they think your gear is 'amateur' enough (usually meaning non-digital gear). Of course, legal or not, there will always be tapers attempting to tape shows, mostly to allow re-living the show after it's over... but the question was "is it actually illegal"... the answer is "usually, but not always". >And, once that question is answered, why did it become common to >disallow taping? I wouldn't be surprised if it was a direct reaction to >bootleggers specifically, as opposed to tape traders. Yes, that's my perception when I study the sequence in which new copyright-protection law was written. When I started taping (over 30 years ago, using 3-inch reel-to-reel gear, to tape Bob Dylan, Pete Seeger and Buffy Sainte-Marie), federal copyright law addressed PIRATE tapes (copies of officially published commercial albums), but as portable recorders got smaller, selling [but not trading] tapes of live shows was prohibited (when manufactured in the US, or in any country which recognizes our copyright laws). Some states wrote law prohibiting the *act* of live taping (when not authorized), but it was Dec 1994 when *federal* law prohibited the act of 'unauthorized' taping... a very recent prohibition against the act of taping. >On the legal question, I'm asking about the States specifically, though >I'd be interested to know what the laws were elsewhere as well. I'm not very current with copyright-law elsewhere, but I believe Luxembourg still allows *selling* tapes of live shows (regardless of source), though not selling of PIRATE copies of commercial material. I think Czechoslovakia (and at least one other Eastern European country) has similar law, which is why GATT also declares *any* recorded live show (from *any* country) is illegal to sell in the US unless it's published officially with permission of the owner(s). The RIAA police have been aggressively enforcing this GATT policy and since 1994, numerous sellers of live shows, produced legally in other countries, have been confiscated and the seller prosecuted. > John Miller San Jose CA > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:46:40 -0500 From: "Kevin Fries" Subject: Re: taping concerts (LONG) - -----Original Message----- From: Miller, John P To: joni@smoe.org Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 11:15 PM Subject: RE: taping concerts (LONG) > > >On July 18, Michael Yarbrough asked: > Another good example is the Indigo Girls, who are > on record supporting *audience* (not soundboard) > taping as long as the venue allows it... there > are even stories of fans getting fresh batteries > for their recorders from Sara Lee (IG's bassist) > or other members of the IG crew. Sara Lee? Is this the same lady who played bass with Robert Fripp in the League of Gentleman in the early 80's? Inquiring minds would like to know or are just curious. Cujo. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:00:18 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Tape trees and personal insults Hey Joniphiles - Yes... the tape tree practice will continue here on the JMDL and this is the call for branch leaders. If you want to get your tapes early AND have the equipment and the desire to copy tapes for others - now is the time to sign up. Head over to http://www.jmdl.com/tape/ for the sign up form. If you just want the tapes - hang on for a few days as the "leaf" sign-up will not begin until next Sunday. On another note - it would be greatly appreciated if we could leave personal insults off the JMDL. There is a big difference between a good, healthy debate and a juvenile name-calling contest. IMHO, some of the stuff that's been posted today is somewhat beneath the usual level of intelligence and tolerance we've all come to know and love on this list. I've half a mind to close the place down for a few days while everyone sits in the corner with dunce caps on. Logistically I'm not sure I could swing it though... :-) Thanks folks, Les ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:21:02 EDT From: Bmcd@aol.com Subject: Joni and Oprah Suze, I"ve been reading the digest where you strongly encourage us all to post to Oprah. You're absolutely right! It is one of the easiest things we can do that will have a huge benefit to all of us. So let me go on record as having posted Oprah. Yours in jonispirit, Karen Mc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:20:09 EDT From: Seanapper@aol.com Subject: Re: mojo Thanks for the information about "mojo," Jerry and Kenny! I also got a private email from Deb Messling containing two definitions, which are forwarded below (I hope you don't mind, Deb!). I think Deb's definition #2 fits the song Come In From the Cold best. Neil in Seattle ************ Deb Messling wrote: Here's a definition from the BLUES-L FAQ: MOJO: a charm for luck, or for conjuring, particularly in gambling or love. Most commonly, the “power” is in a MOJO BAG, a cloth bag with secret contents having magical powers. “Got my mojo working, but it just won’t work on you”—Muddy Waters. and Jim Morrison/Doors FAQ says it is black slang for sexual prowess (which would make sense in the context of Joni's song). Deb Messling Internet Services Librarian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:43:16 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: NJC: Mojo definition Mojo means sex appeal, right? So when that spotty Morrison person talks about his mojo rising.... well... you know. I've never heard about a woman bragging about her mojo, though. I believe it's a blues term meaning virility. Maybe Tom Ross has the inside dope on this term. - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:47:25 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Missing Posts ~ Repeat Post friends and fellow JMDL members. it's clear that there are occasional messages that never appear in the Digest version of the JMDL. this has happened once again. yesterday 7-21-98, i forwarded to the JMDL a copy of the JMDL TapeTree Faq. i sent it at 3:27 pm, a full 5-hours before i posted the TapeTree Contents. yet the Faq never appeared in the Digest, at least it hasn't shown up yet. one can only wonder how many other posts some of us never see. in any event. because we have a number of new members, and also have a new TapeTree in the works, i'm going to repost the TapeTree Faq with the subject line "JMDL TapeTree Faq" Repost. those of you who did receive it yesterday will be able to delete it without having to read it again. i am going to wait awhile before sending it to ensure that it follows this message, because i also notice what others have mentioned ... posts appearing out of order. the two TT#7 Contents lists were posted in reverse order. this isn't a big deal with these two items, but does make for a disjointed conversation with some of our discussion threads. - ------- simon - ------- PS. Oops, just rec'd an Email message from Les. the TapeTree Faq actually *bounced* yesterday because there's a _10000 character limit_ that he hasn't resolved yet. therefore i'll seperate the Faq into 2-parts. However, there ARE missing posts. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:45:13 EDT From: Bolvangar@aol.com Subject: Re: TapeTreeS RickieLee1@aol.com wrote: <> I don't know, Ric -- why don't you share your secret with us? ;) - --David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:46:08 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Asking Joni In a message dated 98-07-21 19:32:25 EDT, RickieLee1@aol.com writes: << (sorry if i seem pissed off, but i just found out i agree with al date and am NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT!) - ric >> LOL!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:56:55 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: "JMDL TapeTree Faq" Repost, pt-1 Coming Soon! To the JMDL Community TapeTree #7, for YOUR enjoyment. but first the Faq, for the benefit of our new members. - ------- simon - ------- TapeTree 101 My thanks & apologies to Randy Schechter and David Lybrand from the Neil Young List for the text of this document. ___________________________________________________________________________ MOTIVATION A little propaganda as to the motivation for running trees ... First and foremost it is to share with others quality Joni Mitchell music that others have been lucky enough to obtain. Trees also serve the purpose of helping new tape collectors to get their collections going. People who are new to tape collecting (or to Joni Mitchell's music) are welcome and encouraged to sign up for the tape trees. Another motivation for running trees is to try to discourage people from feeling the need to partake of the large commerical bootleg market out there. Commercial bootleg producers are largely seen to be disrespectful of an artist's rights by cashing in on the artist's music without any consideration for the artist. ___________________________________________________________________________ The TREE SEED The first step in the Tree process is finding the seed tape. A seed tape is the tape that will ultimately be used to make everyone's copy. These days recording equipment has gotten so small that almost every show gets taped one way or another. So it's important to seek out a tape worthy to seed the tree. The qualities that are important for a seed tape is that the sound quality be very good to excellent - or that the tape be of a critical event - regardless of quality. The sound quality for tapes degrades with each generation as hiss is introduced in the copying process (This is only true for analog tapes - DAT tapes do not suffer from that kind of degradation). So if we start off with a poor sounding seed tape, the leaf tapes (see below) will be unlistenable. Basically, the standards one uses to decide if a seed tape is "tree worthy" are subjective. They might therefore be lower if the seed is from an older show, or a show where no other copy exists - especially if the particular show includes a "rarity" of some kind. ___________________________________________________________________________ BRANCHES and LEAVES Once the seed is in hand, the next step is to select the branch leaders. The branch leaders are the folks who volunteer to spin 3 or 4 (up to 10!) copies of the show for the "Leaves", as in this inverted tree structure: Seed Tape | +----------+------------+----------+ | | | | Branch Branch Branch Branch | | | | | | +---------+----------+ | | | Leaf Leaf Leaf ___________________________________________________________________________ BRANCH LEADER SELECTION It would be nice if a tree only required the tree administator to make branch copies and the branch leaders make the leaf copies. However in practice there's more to it, since the tree administrator has to select the branch leaders. The criteria for branch leader selection is most heavily dependent on the quality of the dubbing equipment. In the best of worlds, all branch leaders would have two top of the line single decks (as opposed to dubbing decks) with 3 heads in the tape transports. This would ensure the best copies for everyone. In practice this is not likely, since most of us are not wealthy. Thus the tree administrator tries to ensure that the branch leaders have at least fairly good recording equipment. Another factor for branch leader selection that sometimes is used is to consider the track record of the branch volunteer in previous trees/trades. Ideally, again, we choose people who take the responsibility of being a branch leader seriously over those who have repeatedly caused delays. There are two ways the a tree gets going: The first is to find the seed, spin the branch tapes, open up the tree to everyone for sign-up, and THEN select the branch leaders from the general sign-up population. Another method is to have a separate call for branch leader volunteers BEFORE the tree is opened up for leaf sign-up. This makes the administration a bit easier, and in some cases gives the branch leaders a little breathing room because they can get their copies before the full tree structure gets posted. ___________________________________________________________________________ DISTRIBUTING BRANCH TAPES Once the branch leaders are chosen, the tree administator makes arrangements to send the branch tapes to the branch leaders. This can be accomplished by either arranging a tape trade for the branch tapes, sending blanks plus return postage, or in some cases sending cash ONLY for the price of the blank tapes and postage. The practice of sending "double blanks" for tree tapes is not allowed! If you are asked to "pay" in any way for the music - please blow the whistle on the culprit. You should be willing to make your fellow Joni fans a copy of the show for just the blanks it would take to make the copy, plus return postage. Not everyone agrees with this practice but it will true for all Trees "sanctioned" by the Joni list. ___________________________________________________________________________ End of Part 1. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:54:18 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: mojo In a message dated 98-07-21 22:07:39 EDT, kg@ibm.net writes: << With Rob Jordan's gracious transcribing of the current Mojo interview, I began to think that it could be a reference to that magazine (which as a non- musician I'd never heard of)....but on the NRH lyric sheet and The Complete Poems And Lyrics, mojo isn't capitalized. So I still have no clue :-( But if anyone does *know* -- please come forward!!! >> Cybrarian Jerry's definition is correct as far as it goes, but mojo in its most common use refers to an icon or symbol that carries the magic within it. Paul I who grew up on Chicago's South Side hearing people like Willie Dixon and Koko Taylor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:57:42 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: "JMDL TapeTree Faq" Repost, pt-2 TapeTree Faq, part 2 GATHERING LEAVES Now that the branch leaders have their tapes, the next step is to open the tree for general sign-up. Trees are run in a spirit of international cooperation, so it may be necessary to have branches in Canada, Europe, Australia and elsewhere. The branch leaders from each nation take care of the leaves from their particular regions, where possible, to simplify mailing and currency transactions (where necessary). However sometimes there will be a fan from another nation on a branch. The tree administrator should get the okay from the branch leader before assigning such leaves to them, though. The tree is generally open for sign-up for 2-4 weeks. After the sign-up is closed, the tree structure is designed and then posted to the list. ___________________________________________________________________________ The BRANCH - LEAF Connection Note: Leaves are responsible for contacting their branch leader to make arrangements for obtaining their tapes! If you, the leaf, have something to trade for your tape(s) then by all means set up a trade. If you have nothing to trade, just send blanks and return postage. After all, one of the motives for running trees is to help beginners get started. Note that it's not cool to trade for blanks just to save yourself some trouble. If you've got trade material, take the effort to make a trade with the branch leader - after all, that branch leader's got a lot more work to do than you do, so help to make him or her happy (so that they will do it again and again and keep the trees going!) Branch leaders and leaves should arrange recording criteria (i.e. Dolby) amongst themselves. Sometimes the tree administrator will arrange to have certain branches that are "Dolby only" or "No-Dolby only". But generally the Branch leader gets a No-Dolby tape unless special arrangements are made. Depending on the branch leader's recording equipment, they may not be able to dub a tape different than their own. So if you insist on having Dolby, it's probably a good idea to tell the tree administrator at sign-up time. ___________________________________________________________________________ DISTRIBUTING LEAF TAPES If you have set up a trade with your branch leader, this part is easy. Just mail your trade tape to the branch leader and then they will mail you the Tree tape. If you are trading for blanks, send the blank tapes in a padded envelope (suitable for sending your tape back to you) and enough postage to cover the cost of mailing the tape back to you. That's generally about $1.00-$1.25, for a single tape (in the US). Please include your name, address, and email address with any blank tape you send, along with a note specifying what tree the blank tape is for. Since tree administrators and branch leaders have several trees/trades going on at once, this is very important! ___________________________________________________________________________ PET PEEVES * Branch leaders who don't take their responsibilities seriously. Don't volunteer to be a branch leader if you're not going to have the time to make the copies you VOLUNTEERED for. * Leaves that disappear. Please don't sign up for the tree if you're not serious about wanting a copy. Sure, legitimate reasons arise that can cause you to be unable to fulfill your committments. If this is the case, you should contact the involved parties to alert them. * Lack of feedback from leaves. If you have trouble arranging to get your tapes from your branch leader, or if you think your copy sounds like crap, please inform the tree administrator. On the other hand, please make a good faith effort to resolve your difficulties with your branch leader. * Lack of Return Postage when trading blanks. Lots of folks forget this! ___________________________________________________________________________ CAVEATS * If you know you are going to be away in the next few weeks after tree sign-up, (e.g., for Spring Break, vacation, etc.) please let your branch leader (or your leaves, if YOU are a branch leader) know. If necessary, let the tree administrator know. Inevitably some people just up and disappear after they sign up for a tree. * Important! Leaves are responsible for contacting their branch leader to arrange to get their tapes! ___________________________________________________________________________ End of Faq. One Final Point Leaves, Please Note Re: Blanks 'n Postage Although it may seem/be easiest for YOU to send your Branch a money order to cover the *costs* of your copies, it is *not* necessarily easiest for your Branch. Remember this means the Branch has to buy cassettes, mailer, address a package, and take it to the post office. All this is in addition dubbing up to 5-Sets of Tapes with a total playing time of close to 7-hours (TT#7). The fairest method is for YOU to purchase your own cassettes. Enclose your cassettes in a padded envelope. This envelope should be *self-addressed* and include postage. This self-addressed, padded envelope w/Your cassettes can then be placed in a slighly larger envelope and mailed off to your Branch, who can now just drop your package in any mailbox once your copies are dubbed. Clean and simple. In the end though, work it out with your BranchLeader. There are some really nice folks here on the JMDL and they will be happy to work with you and ensure that you receive your copies as quickly as possible. That's about all for now folks. I DO hope that everyone enjoys this group of recordings. I'm sure you will. There's some truly amazing music included this time. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 02:40:24 EDT From: Bmcd@aol.com Subject: joni and oprah About an hour after I posted oprah through www. I received this (1:40 a.m. EST). I think the suggestion we not mention the JMDL is a good one. I gather we're all writing unique posts and expressing some knowledge and a great deal of love for joni and her music (after reading Kate's post to Oprah). My, my..... making assumptions based on such little fact. Actually, knowing this crowd, I know we'll speak our individual voices. Good night! I'm gonna sleep tight with cool mid 60's temperatures blowing through the window! Karen Mc Subj: Thank You! Date: 98-07-22 01:39:41 EDT From: email@oprah.com To: Bmcd@AOL.COM Thank you for your recent e-mail to Oprah Winfrey. This is just a quick note to let you know that your message has been received. Unfortunately, due to the overwhelming amount of mail that Ms. Winfrey is receiving, she regrets that it is impossible to answer each and every message personally. You can be sure, however, that we do read every single message. We appreciate hearing from you and hope to see you again soon at http://www.oprah.com! Sincerely, The Oprah.com Staff - ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zb01.mx.aol.com (rly-zb01.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.1]) by air-zb03.mail.aol.com (v46.19) with SMTP; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:39:40 -0400 Received: from mrelay2.starwave.com (mrelay2.starwave.com [204.202.129.112]) by rly-zb01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id BAA10047 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:32:39 -0400 (EDT) From: email@oprah.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 02:51:28 EDT From: Bmcd@aol.com Subject: Shrinks Hi Colin! I felt compelled to send you a post after reading your experiences with therapists. My God, you had some bad luck along the way. Isn't it amazing that someone trained in clinical social work, or the like, can bring such absurd, subjectivism to their practice!!! Where were their professors?? I got lucky first time around. Saw my " good witch doctor" (as I refer to her in a poem I wrote) for 5 years, once a week, sometimes twice. It was a dark tunnel I had to go through to get to the other side, but she was so nurturing. When you said therapists were sometimes like parents, that's when I felt the urge to post you. She was nurturing in that I could say, think, feel anything I wanted and it was OKAY! I remember vividly her telling me once, you may have to tell me this story a hundred times, and that's ok. She was so right, I talked my pain right out of me... as I said it took 5 years. But, I was left with feelings of peace,contentment, not so much worry about others perceptions, hardly any of that worry for that matter. I'll write more later, I'm exhausted. Cheerio! (spelling??) If I ever get to England again, I will have to look you up. Oh, and congrats on your lucky love!! We celebrated 17 years of marriage and 19 of companionship in June. I've always thought of Solid Love as "our song". Also, My Secret Place, because he is from New York, came to Colorado (where *I* was born and raised) for College, we married and still live here. Would love to meet your love, too! My dear friends, my son's Godfathers (yes, sanctioned by the Catholic Church!!!) have split for good after about 17 years. Happened about a year ago and now they have worked through and are very close, live seperately, help each other all the time and spend time together and with us and Noah. They are both happier for it, in the end. It was hard and sad for all of us at first. I ramble.... Goodnight! Yours in jonispirit, Karen Mc (Colin, I'm having to post this to the list, b/c I can't get through to your e-mail, what's the secret?) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 03:01:49 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: a post from Ric last night there was a post from Ric that was personally critical and mentioned me, by name. i'm not going to quote from it and i'm not going to cut 'n paste portions of it either. I also have NO problem with ric. although i'm on Digest, i rec'd Ric's post right away because he cc:d a copy to me and i was on-line. i responded immediately via 'private' email, even though it was a public post to the entire list. several hours later i rec'd an apology that was gracious in tone and conciliatory in nature. for me, the matter is closed. perhaps he shouldn't have sent his post. perhaps i shouldn't have felt it was necessary to respond to Brian Odlum. perhaps none of us is perfect. i see in Digest #270 that Ric has already come in for some flak. perhaps he's rec'd enough. Kenny Grant DOES have an excellent suggestion > >You might consider reading your posts before sending them off to the list. >If they can offend more than one person, you may want to wait a couple of >hours, look at it again, and edit it. If it offends only one person, you >may consider just sending it to that person directly and bypassing the >list altogether. > by coincidence this is what i did last night, glad i did too. perhaps others should consider this approach. here's a portion of my Email to Ric about why i responded to Brian Odlum. > >another consideration for me were the thoughts and feelings of those who >participate in these TreeS as BranchLeaders, and any qualms they might >have had regarding the 'sources' of these recordings and how they are >obtained. > >the reference WAS to 'stolen recordings', there are NO stolen recordings. > >perhaps you'd have said nothing, perhaps i shouldn't have. sometimes it's >difficult to decide when to act or what to do. if it was only me, that >would be one thing, but by implication anyone involved in these TapeTreeS >is involved. as i said yesterday ... my conscience is clear. i choose to Share, and hope everyone enjoys the recordings and the spirit in which they are offered to all of you. Spread the Music ~ Share the Joy andsoitgoes - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #271 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?