From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #270 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, July 21 1998 Volume 03 : Number 270 The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Stealing from Joni! [Mike.Oka@bull.com] The Unfiltered Joni Mitchell - Part 5 (Mojo 8/98) [Rob Jordan ] Re: Stealing from Joni? ["Winfried Hühn" ] NJC: Re: Asking Joni's permission ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] TapeTreeS [simon@icu.com] Re: Asking Joni [RickieLee1@aol.com] Re: Music Pirates and Tape Trees [RickieLee1@aol.com] Re: NJC: Sex Education [RickieLee1@aol.com] Re: TapeTreeS [RickieLee1@aol.com] Re: Asking Joni (NJC) [Heather ] Re: TapeTreeS [Heather ] Re: Comtemporary C. Poets and Socks Knocking (SJC) [Beverly ] Re: mojo [Marsha ] Any old subject (AJC!) [Mark Domyancich ] unfiltered Joni [Sue ] TapeTree #7 [simon@icu.com] TapeTree #7 ~ DAT [simon@icu.com] TapeTree #7 ~ Cassette [simon@icu.com] Re: TapeTreeS [catman ] apologies [barbara wood ] Bev, where are you? (NJC) [Mark Domyancich ] Re: apologies [catman ] Ethics of Tape Trees [Anne Madden ] Today in Joni History - July 22 [Today in Joni History ] Re: mojo [kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant)] Re: The Unfiltered Joni Mitchell [kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant)] (NJC) etiquette and manners [kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:42:03 -0700 From: Mike.Oka@bull.com Subject: Re: Stealing from Joni! >I could add an analogy that when we buy a commercial CD of Joni's music, or >anyone's, we do not really OWN that music. Like when we pay for computer >software, we are purchasing a license to hear that music at our own whim, but >it does not give us the right to sell it, or even duplicate it except for our >own use as an extension of that license. Can this analogy be taken a step further? You can download computer shareware, and then register it to make it legal. Some people do this, and others do not. But if you could "register" a tape from the tape tree by sending the fee directly, we could have legal copies of material that is not available commercially. Mike, (cowering in the corner after my first posting to the list) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:43:24 +0100 From: Rob Jordan Subject: The Unfiltered Joni Mitchell - Part 5 (Mojo 8/98) > It seems to me that maybe around Hejira time - not so much that > you shifted styles per se, but... The poet took over the singer. > There were melodies that anyone could cover in some of your > earlier songs, and it would make perfect sense - they were > gorgeous songs that existed unto themselves. And by no means are > the newer songs inferior on any level... The writing is superior, really - but, like rap, it's at the cost of melody to a certain degree. Although... it's more like jazz melody, it's conversational improvisation. If it didn't have words on it, it's conversational improvisation around a known melody. Except I don't really state the melody. > I had a difficult time trying to describe that when reviewing your > show; I compared the speak-singing style to later Lou Reed... It's the same thing that Bob does. The poet takes over. Maybe I guess Lou Reed, although I'm not as familiar with his material as Bob's. The point in the performance is to make the words come alive. Like Ella Fitzgerald is a beautiful singer, she has perfect pitch and perfect time, but she doesn't illuminate the words - she just sings through them. "S'wonderful, s'marvellous" - that's the way it's written, she sings through it. Whereas Billie Holiday makes you hear the content and the intent of every word that she sings - even at the expense of her pitch or tone. So of the two, Billie is the one that touches me the deepest, although I admire perfect pitch end perfect time. And you could have that at the expense of the read, but I don't think anybody could have perfect pitch, perfect time and colour the words, right! I'd sacrifice the perfect time and the perfect pitch to colour the words, but that's because I like the text. Dylan does that. He never reads the same thing the same two days in a row - and as a result, you can almost see his state of mind in the reading. And I respect that, I think that's emotional honesty, and when you have this complex creature, the singer-songwriter... Everybody's a singer-songwriter now, but not everybody should be, not everybody can do all of these things, and yet everybody does. And that's why I think music has gone downhill. It used to take three - a great lyricist and a great musician and then a great singer. Like with Frank, and that's why that stuff is so enduring - because you had three gifted people doing it. Now you've got people, they're not really a great singer or a great writer or a great musician doing it, so the standards have dropped severely. And ironically, at the same time that the standards dropped, the machines have increased. These people have 20 times the distribution, so the bad stuff is really everywhere. > The album that has one or two good songs, the rest being filler... It's hard to write 10 good songs. I know the fellow that runs my Website said, "You used to put records out one a year." And I did for a long time - and I think that the standard of writing on them is pretty even. People listen to it and for one year they've got three favourites, and then they put it on five years later and some of the ones they didn't even notice suddenly mean something, because they're all about different themes. So either you've experienced that - and if you have, then you're closer to the songs, so you know. But music now is so disposable. Like this new album - I'm very proud of it, I think the standard is high, I'm very proud of the composition, the tools were available. I play nearly everything, and I guided everything into place on Court And Spark - even though I didn't play it, I song it, and then they played it from that and it was pretty much as writ. Hissing Of Summer Lawns was a little looser - I let people stretch out, and as result of that it had a jazzier flavour, because they used their own harmonies instead of mine. People weren't really ready for jazz in pop music at that time - jazz-tingeing. > With those older things - liner like "bombers into butterflies" - > do you feel like that was a different Joni? Yeah, there are some things that I'm prejudiced against in my early work. I think they're the work of on ingenue, that I'm miscast in them now, I don't do them for that reason. However I saw this female impersonator, John Kelly, and he did a lot of my early work beautifully - from a spirit point of view, beautifully - and he's in his mid-thirties I think. And in drag, to boot, and singing in a full tenor voice, some of them, not even imitating me, just singing them with all his heart. He sang Night In The City, which I think of as a childlike ditty, and like I was a ghost at my own funeral I saw the audience respond and I heard the song, it gave me some perspective on it that I never had. Not that in a limited show that I feel the need to include it. I'm out for a long time. What I felt when I put this show together, the necessity was to run by these songs that had become considered obscure and difficult. Any chance I get to air them and run them by people so they can make some new memories against these songs... they're too good to kill is the way I figure it. So I chose to use this run as an opportunity to revitalise them. > You, Dylan and Van Morrison seem nearly alone among your > contemporaries in that your newest work is treated by critics with > as much respect and enthusiasm as your earlier material. You > don't really seem to be as much tied into a time as others. Well, they try to tie you to a time whether you're tied to a time or not. Like I've seen recently, "that folk singer from the '60s'". I haven't been a folk singer since 1964 - and I didn't make my first record since 1967. When I started making my own music, that's not folk music - it has its roots in, and it's classical. The first music that I made that was my own, when I stopped singing folk songs, was rooted in Chuck Berry. Big Yellow Taxi is rooted in Chuck Berry. In my pre-teen years, my best friends were classical musicians. And my parents, we only had five records in the house. > What were they? Clair De Lune. My father had a Harry James record and a Leroy Anderson record, he was a trumpet player. And my mother had Clair De Lune, Brahms' Lullaby, a lot of classicism, beautiful melodies. And I had personally, until I became a dancer and won records... because people didn't buy records like they do now. I've got a godson who lives in a trailer park who's got 50 CDs. These things are expensive. People charge now; they didn't when I was coming up. If you didn't have the cash for it you didn't get it. And I used to go down and take the records out of the brown paper and go in the listening booth and listen to Rachmaninov's Rhapsody On A Theme By Paganini. It was like 75 cents but we couldn't afford it. I'd go downtown and put it on and listen to it and swoon, a couple of plays, and put it hack in the paper, and put it back on the shelf. Like Russia or something, it seems now. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:49:16 +0100 From: Rob Jordan Subject: The Unfiltered Joni Mitchell - Part 6 (Mojo 8/98) > I was wondering when I saw you get that Rock and Roll Hell of Fame > Award from Graham on Saturday night - was that staged, or was that > really the first time you received it? No, he'd brought it the night before, and accidentally a friend of mine, Chris, one of the boys who sang with me, broke it, and the top piece came off of it, but he was scared to tell me - he was horrified, he went home and he couldn't sleep. But he did bring it in the garbage bag like that. So I laughed. Graham has a very good attitude about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. My father would have the same attitude. Unfortunately I do not have a good attitude about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and you can say this. It was a dubious honour - in that they held me out conspicuously for three years. To go, Oh, thank you, thank you - - I mean, having conspicuously ostracised me for a few projects, how can I be gracious, really! And the other complaint that I had is that it was gonna cost about 20 grand to take my family - that they charge, and they get a free concert out of you. It's exploitative, I'm sorry. Brian calls it the Hall of Shame, and in a certain way I think it is. It's mercenary, and I, they're putting everybody in - so the honour is dubious on that level It's not really rarefied. The best records don't make that record of the year, the best records do not win the Grammys. The best do not win, so all this is is perpetuating the falseness of the victors, you know? It's not correcting history as it should be. There's a lot that's in there that's great, but... > When you get these accolades do you feel, good, you deserve it? > Embarrassed? Too little too late? Or who cares - it's > meaningless because the best things are never recognised? Every one was different. Most of them fell short of honouring me. If I'm truly honoured, I should be humbled, and most of them made me arrogant, because they didn't seem to know why they were putting me across, only that they should. And yeah, that kind of ticked me off. And then there were tailgaters too - people rubbing up and taking credit for things more then they're deserving of, and that's always annoying too. And again my depth gets in the way. Because I know Graham just has a straight-ahead healthy attitude that it's an honour to be in there. And you know, coming from Manchester or whatever - I come from Saskatoon. It's more of a boondocky place than Manchester, really, although it is the centre of the North American continent, pretty much. It can have that claim to fame, I guess... Yeah, I'm a deep thinker, so I thought a lot, What is honour? I think about things like that. The Governor General award - the Governor General truly honoured me, and I blushed like a schoolgirl when he gave me that award. And it was very sweet, and it was kind of private, I don't need to repeat what he said. But I enjoyed that, but the applause was way too long and he kept saying, "Get back up and take it." I don't really like a lot of applause. I'm not a natural performer, you know. I'm kind of ambiverted, in that I have hambone - I have enough ham to get up there, and enough introvert to be the writer. But of the two, I have no need to perform like a lot of performing animals do. Some people are just performing animals and need that, and don't feel comfortable anyplace else. But I feel very comfortable - well, Geffen said it years ago, he said, you're the only star I ever met that wanted to be ordinary. I was always a star. I'm not one of those kids that had a bad high school life. I was always invited to the pretty kids - the doors were opened to the things that most people come to this business wanting. But I always chose my friends - my mother said, "You have the weirdest friends, " but I chose them with my heart. I enjoy the car jockeys down here, you know - one guy brings the cars in like a matador - I enjoy village life, let's say that. This is my small town here; I know the shopkeepers and I tease them. I like that, I'm a small town person. Celebrity takes all of that away from you in a certain way. There's a tremendous pocket of adjustment where you either take drugs or kill yourself or something. You say you're not gonna change, but everything around you changes, and you eventually have to change. Everybody goes through that awful period. I'm kind of used to it, I'm comfortable with my celebrity, but I don't think anything much of it. But I'm like a mother about my art. I know what's good about it, what's exceptional about it, what's unique about it; I don't like it being compared to things that aren't unique. So that makes me seem kind of salty or rivalrous. I love making music. There's still plenty to discover. I haven't hybrid all my interests yet. There's Cab Calloway started appearing in some of the music, there's many things that I've enjoyed, the crooning era, that - I'm going to make a record of'40s music to get that out of my system, so that lies ahead of me, the thrill with that big orchestra. It's the business I don't like, the pigeonholing I don't like, the pitting me against every female that comes along, favourably and unfavourably. That I've had to do because there weren't that many women in the business. I don't like the idea that they make us both put on the gloves, they prod one of them until they say something snotty about me, then hit me over the head with the snotty thing that they said, then get a rise out of me and start these artificial catfights. Rather than thinking of me as a bitter old fogey, like the young press would like to do, if they thought about it as a mature artist, if it was the old guild system, it would be respected that I knew something, and that maybe my criticisms of these people who outsell me 20 to one, so they really are creating more public interest... but there are things, habits that they have gotten into, that aren't great art. False coming in the vocals, whining. The '40s singers smiled and were elegant, they were drinking and having a high time, they really were more adult, there was a more graceful suffering going on. My generation was a generation of screamers, we were screaming over mountains of amplifiers - not myself per se (laughs), I was the only one on with an acoustic guitar, surrounded by The Who's amplifiers, usually (laughs). But generally speaking, my generation was screaming over loud electrical impulses, right? And their faces were all contorted, and they were railing, but this next generation has a general tone - they're whiners. I think of Noel Coward: "What's going to happen to the children when there are no more grown-ups/Wot-wot-wot's going to happen to the tots." They're not growing up this generation, somehow,and they're malformed in a real insipid way, like blaming. And whining. And I just wish they had more character in general. And the oversexed part of it all, and the guns, you know - it's a degenerate era in the history of music. > But then there are things Iike the Lilith Fair... I've been invited to play. > Are you going to? Um, I'm contemplating. It was out of the question because I just didn't want to play, last year. This year I've had a taste of it and I had some enjoyment. I got sick out on this little tour, so I had to do three concerts in the state of delirium, but I managed to stay on my feet, so it was a mixed pleasure. In spite of the illness, I enjoyed myself. > But in light of what you were saying before, abaut false > comparisans - because you're all women, say... Yeah, I'm sick of being lumped in with the women. Laura Nyro you can lump me in with, because Laura exerted an influence on me. I looked to her and took some direction from her. On account of her I started playing piano again. Some of the things she did was very fresh. Hers was a hybrid of black pop singers - Motown singers - and Broadway musicals, and I like some things also from both those camps. > That record New York Tendaberry... Beautiful record, beautiful. [ Is anyone still reading this? Still 4 more pages to go!!! ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 22:53:29 +0100 From: catman Subject: NJC: Sex Education My little friend< Nicole, was over here today with her mum, who cleans for me. I was laying on the bed cos I have flu. Nicole sat next to me and started to ask questions about her kittens and their parents. i told her the mum cat was Wonder the black one, but their dad, cecil, didn't belong to me. I said james would be the dad of the next kittens. She asked if James would have kittens too, like a girl cat. no I said. he would be the father. She then asked how the mum got babies in her tmmy and what diud james have to do with it. i ckecked with her mother to see if she had ever said anything to her about sex. No, she said, she never assked me! Well she was asking me. I told her(bearing in kind her mum was there and she is not my child) that the girl cat had eggs inside her tummy and that James ahd special milk isaside him. When James gave this special milk to the Wonder, it made the eggs grow into kittens. Nicole wanted to know how James knew Wonder wanted his milk. I said well she rolls around on the floor and makes funny noises(i resisted saying just like your mum). Then she wanted to know how James gave the milk. So I said he climbs on top of her and the milk just goes into the mummy. She smiled and said ' I undrstand that' and she seemed satisfied. So now I know, sort of, what it feels like the first time your cvhild asks about sex! Funny though because a little while ago Belinda, her children, 6-12 and I were discussing homosexuality and transsexuals! scot 7 said gay was when a man or a woman loved another man or woman. Nicole piped up and said, Noooo-a woman who loves another woman is a lesbian! colin - -- Living is the process whereby we create the structures we call meaning. http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk Carly Simon Discussion List http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 00:03:12 +0200 From: "Winfried Hühn" Subject: Re: Stealing from Joni? Al Date wrote: > The whole concept of intellectual property is pretty damn bogus, IMNSHO. > > > What a bunch of bullshirt. > > If you steal her guitar or her equipment, then you have really stolen something, because physical possessions cannot be in two > places at the same time. Either YOU have the guitar, or JONI has the guitar. > > But copies of expressions can not only be in more than one place, it is actually to the advantage of the artist to have as wide > spread exposure as possible. > > Expressions can be multiplied infinitely, at no cost to the originator in terms of actual physical loss. > > That is not theft. Get over it. > > - --Al Date > O SANCTA SIMPLICITAS! Al, if I were you, I would be very careful to put the label "bullshit" on other posts! VERY CAREFUL!!!! Winfried ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:18:33 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: NJC: Re: Asking Joni's permission In reference to the idea of asking Joni for permission to continue with new tape trees: I think our philosophy should be DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL. - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:18:54 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: TapeTreeS Brian, you wrote > >How many of the stolen recordings in the JM TapeTrees >are there with Joni's CONSENT? > >I'm not saying that the JMDL's concept of tape trees is as terrible as >bootlegging. I'm trying to point out that the music is still stolen. > >After all, the legal crime has already been committed >by the time the recording is a candidate for the tape trees. Stolen? stolen means theft. theft means thief. crime means criminal. and you are talking about ME! i resent this. i resent it deeply. you did offer apologies but that's like punching a man in the face, and *then* offering him an ice-pack. FWIW: - ----- four of the six TapeTreeS offered so far were Seeded, from my personal collection. (1-60min. program came from a JMDL member). i HAVE this collection of recordings. it will continue to grow. my collection is *not* dependent on the JMDL TapeTrees. here's my reality. 1. i can continue to enjoy these recordings in the privacy of my home. 2. i can share them with the larger JMDL Community thru TapeTreeS. for me, the decision is between Selfishness and Sharing. i choose to share. would YOU have me do otherwise? BTW: the overwhelming majority of the recordings offered on the JMDL TapeTreeS are 'Air-Checks' (tapes of Radio & TV Broadcasts). it IS clearly 'legal' to record these broadcasts. at least two seperate decisions by the U.S. Supreme Court have established this 'right' and privilege. one of these was the Sony Betamax case. under 'fair use' it IS legal to share these recordings with friends. what IS illegal is 'commercial' sale _For Profit_. perhaps before you again engage in the loose use of inflammatory language, you'll take the time and make a 'private' inquiry, before making a public attack. - ------- simon - ------- PS-To All: it is not my intention to either encourage or curtail this Thread. but, please don't feel the need to offer comments on MY behalf. my conscience is clear. i choose to Share, and hope everyone enjoys the recordings and the spirit in which they are offered to all of you. Spread the Music ~ Share the Joy! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:27:05 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: Asking Joni or could there be a tinge of hypocrisy in the nearly unanimous decision to "leave well enough alone" and not ask joni what she thinks of the tape trees (a ludicrous idea at best...) because if she said no, we would all have to cease and desist doing what we all want, distributing and sharing and enjoying her music and her videos in a decidedly bootleg version. so what if we aren't charging for it!! what hypocrisy!! a bootleg by any other name (tape tree, eg) smells the same. this whole discussion is an embarrassment. it usually is whenever anyone tries to take the moral highground. all this smugness and name calling and pretense...where did all these jerry falwells come from??? HERE'S a suggestion. if you feel conflicted about purchasing an unauthorized recording of a public performance, THEN DON'T. if you are worried about the ethics of distributing the same material via a tape tree, THEN DON'T. but save your preaching and your name calling and your moralizing for sunday school. grow up list!!! (sorry if i seem pissed off, but i just found out i agree with al date and am NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT!) - - ric (who has been driven to discover his shift key...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:27:04 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: Music Pirates and Tape Trees what has the world come to? i actually agree with something al date said. god forgive me. - ric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:47:41 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC: Sex Education special milk? what? is sperm a dirty word in england? god! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:47:43 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: TapeTreeS jesus! what a bunch of thin skinned overly sensitive didactic boobs you are all sounding like! and YOU simon...you who called another list member a scumbag??? YOU are taking offense because someone had the nerve to suggest your argument might be flawed? go take a long hot bath and relax for chrissakes. why is it not possible to disagree with each other about some fine point without people bursting into flames? you might call it impassioned, but it sounds pretty f-ing stupid to those of us with the good sense to lurk. what a bunch of morons. - - ric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:57:14 -0400 From: Heather Subject: Re: Asking Joni (NJC) At 07:27 PM 7/21/98 EDT, you wrote: >(sorry if i seem pissed off, but i just found out i agree with al date and am >NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT!) >- ric (who has been driven to discover his shift key...) > But Ric, no emoticon??? Are you cured? (or honey baked ;-) I happen to agree. Do it ... or don't. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:02:06 -0400 From: Heather Subject: Re: TapeTreeS At 07:47 PM 7/21/98 EDT, you wrote: > >why is it not possible to disagree with each other about some fine point >without people bursting into flames? you might call it impassioned, but it >sounds pretty f-ing stupid to those of us with the good sense to lurk. what a >bunch of morons. ric - morons or lessrons. i choose just to lurk. i think some long overdue humor should be flung around for a bit. whatta say, kiddos? heather (oh nooooooo i lost the use of my shift key!) > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:24:13 -0400 From: Beverly Subject: Re: Comtemporary C. Poets and Socks Knocking (SJC) Wolfebite wrote: > I still think joni's got this rap against poets- and i think her take > is still stuck in some horrid 19th C. conception of the romantic poet. > i'd like to recommend a few contemporary poets that would knock her > socks off. While you're waiting to pass this information on to Joni -- I'd love to read some poetry that would knock my socks off. I'm afraid I'm also "stuck in the horrid 19th century conception of the romantic poet." I had a hard time with poetry when I was forced to read it in various classes. I never developed a liking for poetry out of the classroom unless it was accompanied by music (i.e. Joni's). I have to admit that the last time I read any contemporary poetry that completely held my attention was when I read to my daughter -- Shel Silverstein's "Where The Sidewalk End's" and "A Light in the Attic." She's 18 now and is beginning to pack for her first year at college. I noticed, along with all the other books that she's taking, she packed both of Silverstein's books. I guess we could both stand to read some new material. Bev ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:15:34 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: TapeTreeS Could be the summer heat, or the latest trend of spontaneous combustion. Ric wrote: >why is it not possible to disagree with each other about some fine point >without people bursting into flames? ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:15:29 -0400 From: Marsha Subject: Re: mojo Jerry Notaro wrote: > mo.jo n, pl mojoes or mojos [prob. of > African origin; akin to Fulani > moco'o medicine man] (1926): a magic > spell, hex, or charm; broadly: magical > power I like my mojos risin'... Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 19:23:40 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Any old subject (AJC!) Just thought I could post this again to any new listers (Or those smart people who choose to lurk!) BTW, Sue McNamara did this a while back. Pretty cool, eh? **/ \\ ' \ \#######\=--###### */ /"\! "" \#\ \##############//" *| \\#\ \ \#*\ \####\ /*# / .= \"""#"\""#/"" |" ..##/" \..\ ##==-"""/# | \############# ;\ /############# **\#/ _ /####/ |#* \##### */ |./***-/ * ** /* "##### * " *' *** o /##### \ _ ** =/######## \ . .==#***#### ############# \ ## ../ /############## \ ##===*/*" /################ \ *##/" /################## \ ../"###################### \ /########################### \..../###################/ \########## "****#################/ \######### \##############/ \### \### When I get this \############/ |###* |## crazy feeling ... \########### #/ |# I know I'm in \##########. /## trouble again ... \########## ## ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:36:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Subject: unfiltered Joni Rob, Thanks so much for taking the time to transcribe this interview. I have enjoyed reading it so far. Now for a really stupid question - Is this magazine available in the states? Where would someone go to purchase a copy (I live in a rural area with no newstands to speak of). Now, for my comment on one of the things Joni said - >Any time I have a passionate new relationship, that song will come to life >in a new >way. If it's overly explained, you rob the people whose lives it >brushes up against of their own interpretation and their own >experience. Isn't this so true? Reading post after post on people's opinion's of what she means here or there, what it really comes down to is what each individual reads into it. It is so cool that she realizes this! Also this tidbit was great to read - >It's hard to write 10 good songs. I know the fellow that runs my >Website said, "You used to put records out one a year." And I did >for a long time Wally, this is so cool! She is now quoting YOU in her articles. Dude! And lastly the part of the interview that got me jazzed up the most - >> But then there are things Iike the Lilith Fair... > >I've been invited to play. > >> Are you going to? > >Um, I'm contemplating. It was out of the question because I just >didn't want to play, last year. This year I've had a taste of it >and I had some enjoyment. I got sick out on this little tour, so I >had to do three concerts in the state of delirium, but I managed to >stay on my feet, so it was a mixed pleasure. In spite of the >illness, I enjoyed myself. Terry! Pine Knob '99 here we come! Thanks again Rob! Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:47:29 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: TapeTree #7 Spread the Music ~ Share the Joy! TapeTree #7 ___________ two messages follow that will give you the full contents of TapeTree #7. this is the largest one yet, with close to 7-hours of music spread over 5-Cassettes (3-DATs) for your listening pleasure. this time around we've decided on a 2-step sign-up process to ease some of the organizational problems we encountered last time around. BranchLeader sign-ups will begin sometime later this evening as soon as Les has a chance update the 'sign-up' page at the JMDL Website. BranchLeader sign-ups will close this sunday (7-26-98). Leaf Sign-Ups will begin on sunday (7-26-98) and the Tree will be open for a 1-week period, until sunday aug. 2, 1998. (this may be extended). Spread the Music ~ Share the Joy! for now ~ take care, - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:47:43 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: TapeTree #7 ~ DAT - -------------- Dat #1 ~ 90m - -------------- JONI MITCHELL The Gorge Amphitheatre ~ George, Wa. ~ may 16, 1998 1. Night Ride Home 2. The Crazy Cries Of Love 3. Harry's House 4. Slouching Towards Bethlehem 5. Just Like This Train 6. Black Crow 7. Amelia 8. Hejira 9. Big Yellow Taxi 10. Facelift 11. Sex Kills 12. The Magdalene Laundries 13. Moon At The Window 14. Woodstock BOB DYLAN 15. I Shall Be Released (w/Joni & Van, vocals) JONI MITCHELL Pauley Pavilion ~ UCLA ~ Los Angeles, Ca. ~ may 22, 1998 1. Night Ride Home 2. The Crazy Cries of Love 3. Harry's House 4. Slouching Towards Bethlehem 5. Just Like This Train 6. Black Crow 7. Amelia 8. Hejira 9. Big Yellow Taxi 10. Facelift 11. Sex Kills 12. The Magdalene Laundries 13. Moon at the Window 14. Woodstock General Motor Place ~ Vancover, B.C. ~ may 14, 1998 15. Refuge Of The Roads * (see note below) 16. Big Yellow Taxi - -------------- Dat #2 ~ 60m - -------------- JONI MITCHELL Temple University Music Festival Ambler, Pa. ~ aug. 22, 1974 1. Free Man In Paris 2. You Turn Me On I'm A Radio 3. Big Yellow Taxi 4. Same Situation 5. Barangrill 6. Rainy Night House 7. Woodstock 8. This Flight Tonight 9. People's Parties 10. All I Want 11. Woman Of Heart And Mind 12. A Case Of You 13. Cold Blue Steel And Sweet Fire 14. Blue 15. For Free 16. Carey 17. Down To You 18. Trouble Child 19. Help Me 20. Jericho 21. Love Or Money 22. Both Sides, Now 23. The Last Time I Saw Richard 24. Twisted - -------------- Dat #3 ~ 60m - -------------- JONI MITCHELL Morning Becomes Eclectic ~ KCRW-FM Santa Monica, Ca. ~ (broadcast) march 27, 1998 from: "Taming The Tiger" 1. Harlem In Havana 2. Man From Mars 3. Taming The Tiger 4. The Crazy Cries Of Love 5. My Best To You Morning Becomes Eclectic ~ KCRW-FM ** (see note below) Interview + Music from "Taming The Tiger" 6. Harlem In Havana 7. Man From Mars 8. Taming The Tiger 9. The Crazy Cries Of Love 10. My Best To You Excerpt from: Morning Becomes Eclectic ~ KCRW-FM w/Larry Klein & Allison Anders ~ sept. 1996 11. Re: "Man From Mars" No Nukes ~ Anti-Nuclear Rally Washington, DC ~ may 6, 1979 14. The Circle Game 15. Big Yellow Taxi 16. God Must Be A Boogie Man 17. Woodstock ______________ * "Refuge Of The Roads" was only performed once during this Tour. it's the only song performed once. that's why it's included. as for BYT ~ there was room. these 2-songs were the 'encore' at the Vancover concert. ** a newer, slightly better DAT-recording was used for this program. it's a different 'source' than the currently circulating copies. there are also 1-or-2 *Bonus* additions that i haven't listed, and won't divulge. i likes my surprises :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:47:35 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: TapeTree #7 ~ Cassette - ------------------- Cassette #1 ~ C90 - ------------------- JONI MITCHELL The Gorge Amphitheatre ~ George, Wa. ~ may 16, 1998 1. Night Ride Home 2. The Crazy Cries Of Love 3. Harry's House 4. Slouching Towards Bethlehem 5. Just Like This Train 6. Black Crow 7. Amelia 8. Hejira 9. Big Yellow Taxi 10. Facelift 11. Sex Kills 12. The Magdalene Laundries 13. Moon At The Window 14. Woodstock BOB DYLAN 15. I Shall Be Released (w/Joni & Van, vocals) - ------------------- Cassette #2 ~ C90 - ------------------- JONI MITCHELL Pauley Pavilion @ U.C.L.A. ~ Los Angeles, Ca. ~ may 22, 1998 1. Night Ride Home 2. The Crazy Cries of Love 3. Harry's House 4. Slouching Towards Bethlehem 5. Just Like This Train 6. Black Crow 7. Amelia 8. Hejira 9. Big Yellow Taxi 10. Facelift 11. Sex Kills 12. The Magdalene Laundries 13. Moon at the Window 14. Woodstock General Motor Place ~ Vancover, B.C. ~ may 14, 1998 15. Refuge Of The Roads * (see note below) 16. Big Yellow Taxi - ------------------- Cassette #3 ~ C90 - ------------------- JONI MITCHELL Temple University Music Festival Ambler, Pa. ~ aug. 22, 1974 1. Free Man In Paris 2. You Turn Me On I'm A Radio 3. Big Yellow Taxi 4. Same Situation 5. Barangrill 6. Rainy Night House 7. Woodstock 8. This Flight Tonight 9. People's Parties 10. All I Want 11. Woman Of Heart And Mind 12. A Case Of You 13. Cold Blue Steel And Sweet Fire 14. Blue 15. For Free 16. Carey 17. Down To You 18. Trouble Child 19. Help Me - ------------------- Cassette #4 ~ C60 - ------------------- JONI MITCHELL Temple University Music Festival Ambler, Pa. ~ aug. 22, 1974 Conclusion: 20. Jericho 21. Love Or Money 22. Both Sides, Now 23. The Last Time I Saw Richard 24. Twisted No Nukes ~ Anti-Nuclear Rally ~ Washington, DC ~ may 6, 1979 1. The Circle Game 2. Big Yellow Taxi 3. God Must Be A Boogie Man 4. Woodstock - -------------------- Cassette #5 ~ C100 - -------------------- JONI MITCHELL from: "Taming The Tiger" 1. Harlem In Havana 2. Man From Mars 3. Taming The Tiger 4. The Crazy Cries Of Love 5. My Best To You MORNING BECOMES ECLECTIC ~ KCRW-FM ** (see note below) Interview + Music ~ "Taming The Tiger" Santa Monica, Ca. ~ (Broadcast) march 27, 1998 6. Harlem In Havana 7. Man From Mars 8. Taming The Tiger 9. The Crazy Cries Of Love 10. My Best To You Excerpt from: MORNING BECOMES ECLECTIC ~ KCRW-FM w/Larry Klein & Allison Anders ~ sept. 1996 11. RE: "Man From Mars" _____________________________ * "Refuge Of The Roads" was only performed once during this Tour. it's the only song performed once. that's why it's included. as for BYT ~ there was room. these 2-songs were the 'encore' at the Vancover concert. ** a newer, slightly better DAT-recording was used for this program. it's a different 'source' than the currently circulating copies. there are also 1-or-2 *Bonus* additions that i haven't listed, and won't divulge. i likes my surprises :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:53:48 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: TapeTreeS Your hypocrisy is astounding! Who was it that wrote offensive abusive mails because YOU are so thin skinned that you took a post personally that had nothing to do with you? Try practising what you preach and keeping your promises-like the one you made to lurk. This post below is offensive and immature. Or can you only see the flaws in others? Excuse me the rest of you, this sort of nonsense gets me going. is it really not possible for people to hold differing opinions without being attacked for them? no wonder we live in a world full of 'petty wars'. None of us is without blemish, can't we give others the benefit we so obviously give ourselves? colin RickieLee1@aol.com wrote: > jesus! what a bunch of thin skinned overly sensitive didactic boobs you are > all sounding like! and YOU simon...you who called another list member a > scumbag??? YOU are taking offense because someone had the nerve to suggest > your argument might be flawed? go take a long hot bath and relax for > chrissakes. > > why is it not possible to disagree with each other about some fine point > without people bursting into flames? you might call it impassioned, but it > sounds pretty f-ing stupid to those of us with the good sense to lurk. what a > bunch of morons. > - ric - -- Living is the process whereby we create the structures we call meaning. http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk Carly Simon Discussion List http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:49:44 -0700 From: barbara wood Subject: apologies Hi List, Im a lurker. I read every post, every day but havent responded since I first signed on. I find it all so interesting and have learned so, so much! I have some questions.. What is a treetape? tapetree? Now that I know that NJC means not Joni content, Id like to eliminate those so that I dont have to read or fast forward thru them. How? I cant wait untill TTT. I need a new Joni CD now! I have TI and love it. I dont have anything between HOSL and TI. What does the list recommend as the next album/CD that I should get? Grammer police and punctuation/spelling police go away! Barb in Laguna Beach, CA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:09:29 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Bev, where are you? (NJC) Bev, aka, TheFishPond: I've tried to send like 3 emails to you but they always get returned. ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 02:12:18 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: apologies My own recommendation would be Hejira, Dog Eat Dog and Night Ride Home. I imagine you'll eventaully have all Joni's work! bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:30:19 -0700 From: Anne Madden Subject: Ethics of Tape Trees I think everyone needs to lighten up - "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I share the view also that Joni is aware these tape trees exist. They don't hurt anyone and her true fans will still buy her CD's and go to her concerts so let's stop trying to make a mountain out of a molehill! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:06:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - July 22 1979: Joni performs in New York City 1983: Joni performs at Meriwether Post Pavillion in Maryland - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 98 02:03:33 GMT From: kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant) Subject: Re: mojo Hey Jerry, Thanks for the research, but I don't think "magic spell" makes sense in the context of Come In From The Cold. Is this just vulgar electricity Is this the edifying fire Does your smile's covert complicity Debase as it admires Are you just checkin' out your mojo Or am I just fighting off growing old All I ever wanted, was just to come in from the cold Neil, I too have been pondering the meaning or MOJO forever, and meant to post this question to the list many times. The first time/place I heard "mojo" was as a kid listening to The Doors' LA Woman ("Mr. Mojo rising"), and when I inquired into the meaning, way back then, I was offered a ton of suggestions, ranging from "it's an acronym for Jim Morrison" to "he's talking about getting a hardon" -- and many other explanations that I've since forgotten -- but I was never *sure* what it meant. Then, when I first heard Come In From The Cold, and heard this word AGAIN, I was like "here we go again, what the f**k does this word MEAN?" I doubted she was making a reference to anything in LA Woman, but since I never understood the word anyway, I didn't know for sure. A few months ago I did a search engine search on "mojo" and was hyperlinked to some of the most bizarre places, but never did gain a better understanding of the word. With Rob Jordan's gracious transcribing of the current Mojo interview, I began to think that it could be a reference to that magazine (which as a non-musician I'd never heard of)....but on the NRH lyric sheet and The Complete Poems And Lyrics, mojo isn't capitalized. So I still have no clue :-( But if anyone does *know* -- please come forward!!! Thanks! -Kenny On 7/21/98 2:40PM, Jerry Notaro wrote: Merriam-Webster's Collegiate® Dictionary contains 1 item relevant to this query. mo.jo n, pl mojoes or mojos [prob. of African origin; akin to Fulani moco'o medicine man] (1926): a magic spell, hex, or charm; broadly: magical power Jerry, Cybrarian Neil (seanapper@aol.com) wrote: Hi List Reading the Joni interview from Mojo magazine brought up a question I have wondered about for a few years: just what IS a mojo? I don't have a clue what the word means; it's not in my dictionary, and no one I've asked seems to know. "Are you just checking out your mojo/ Or am I just fighting off getting old?..." (Come In From the Cold) Neil in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 98 02:04:01 GMT From: kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant) Subject: Re: The Unfiltered Joni Mitchell Hey Rob, Thanks SO MUCH for taking the time to transcribe this and share it with the list. I *loved* reading Dylan's comments to her about "those chords, those chords, you gotta teach me how to play those chords." He really is an idol of hers, you can just tell how exited she was to receive a musical compliment from him! Can't wait to pick up the magazine and see the pictures! -Kenny ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 98 02:06:31 GMT From: kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant) Subject: (NJC) etiquette and manners Hi Ric, I just read your post and found it both offensive and condescending. "What a bunch of ___ boobs you are all sounding like"??? "...it sounds pretty f-ing stupid to those of us with the good sense to lurk"??? "What a bunch of morons"??? You might consider reading your posts before sending them off to the list. If they can offend more than one person, you may want to wait a couple of hours, look at it again, and edit it. If it offends only one person, you may consider just sending it to that person directly and bypassing the list altogether. Repeated, aggressive (impassioned?) name-calling is offensive and lacking in etiquette and manners. I don't see the good that it serves, or its place on the list. BTW, I just re-read Simon's post, he called bootleggers "scumbags" -- no *personal* attacks against another list member were ever made. YOU, however, made about four. As for your suggestion to someone to "go take a long hot bath and relax for chrissakes," Doctor, heal thyself. -Kenny On 7/21/98 7:47PM, RickieLee1@aol.com wrote: jesus! what a bunch of thin skinned overly sensitive didactic boobs you are all sounding like! and YOU simon...you who called another list member a scumbag??? YOU are taking offense because someone had the nerve to suggest your argument might be flawed? go take a long hot bath and relax for chrissakes. why is it not possible to disagree with each other about some fine point without people bursting into flames? you might call it impassioned, but it sounds pretty f-ing stupid to those of us with the good sense to lurk. what a bunch of morons. - ric ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #270 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?