From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #269 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Tuesday, July 21 1998 Volume 03 : Number 269 The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Today in Joni History - July 21 [Today in Joni History ] NJC: Bob and Patti come to town [Gerald McNamara ] Music Pirates and Tape Trees [al date ] Re: Asking Joni [M.Russell@iaea.org] Re: JMDL Digest V3 #266 [al date ] Stealing from Joni! [al date ] ??? NJC (I think) [Robert Holliston ] Natalie Merchant [Chilihead2@aol.com] e-bay joni items [MP123A321@aol.com] re: EBAY [Bill Dollinger ] (NJC) Re: Natalie Merchant [Bill Dollinger ] Re: Asking Joni [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Stealing from Joni! ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Fwd: to buy or not to buy? bootlegs, etc. [catman ] easy on the ebay (njc)- and thanks rob j [Wolfebite@aol.com] Re: NJC: Bob and Patti come to town [Marsha ] Re: (njc) Oprah list update [Heather ] Re: Asking Joni [Susan McNamara ] response [Heather ] Re: Asking Joni ["Don Rowe" ] The swing era and TTT [Mary Pitassi ] Re: The swing era and TTT ["Don Rowe" ] Re: apology [Mark Domyancich ] Re: apology [Mark Domyancich ] My Birthday. Little Joni Content [Hassan Zubairi ] Doctor/nurse ordered [michael paz ] Re: Asking Joni [Mark Domyancich ] Re: My Birthday. Little Joni Content [Mark Domyancich ] RE: Re: The swing era and TTT [Mary Pitassi ] RE: Re: The swing era and TTT ["Don Rowe" ] Re: The swing era and TTT [Jerry Notaro ] mojo [Seanapper@aol.com] TTT UK/Europe release date [jussi ] Re: mojo [Jerry Notaro ] Re: NJC Funny new movie [Bill Dollinger ] My Confession [Diana Duncan ] Re: My Confession ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: My Confession [catman ] Re: Stealing from Joni! [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Ebay items [kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)] Auction Notice [kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)] Letters on Oprah [Mark Domyancich ] Daves Auction (NJC) [michael paz ] RE: NJC Your recommendations pahleeze [jan gyn ] Letters on Oprah #2 [Mark Domyancich ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:09:00 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - July 21 1973: Joni performs in Kona, Hawaii 1990: Joni takes part in Roger Waters' staging of "The Wall" at the site of the Berlin Wall in Potzdamer Platz, Berlin, Germany, singing Goodbye Blue Sky. The event is broadcast live throughout the world, and raises money for the Memorial Fund For Disaster Relief. (from Wally's bio): The concert ... included guest singers and musicians such as Sinead O'Connor, Van Morrison, Cyndi Lauper, Bryan Adams, Paul Carrack of Mike and the Mechanics, the Band, the Scorpions, etc. Joni was joined onstage by flutist James Galway, performing with a pre-recorded backing track on the song "Goodbye, Blue Sky." She also re-appeared at the finale and sang a few solo lines for "The Tide Is Turning" clustered with Sinead O'Connor, Thomas Dolby and Bryan Adams at one side of an elevated platform. View pictures of the event at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/TheWallBerlin90.html - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 7:50:53 UTC From: Gerald McNamara Subject: NJC: Bob and Patti come to town I've just gotta tell you guys.... A couple of months back, it was announced that Dylan would tour Australia in August... and in Melbourne there'd be only one concert. I queued out in freezing weather waiting for tickets to go on sale, hoping to get a seat near the front. It turned out that with promoters, music industry people, users, cheaters, six-time losers ,etc, etc, getting special seating allocation, I didn't get front row, but Desolation row ! A second show was announced, but I figured I couldn't really afford the money to go both nights, even though I love Bob second to you-know-who. ..... until... last week, when I heard on the tour-sponsor, Golden Oldies radio station that they were having a Dylan karaoke contest that week. One contestant each day, with judging on the Friday. Best 'Dylan' to win a pair of FRONT ROW tickets for the second concert and stay overnight at the Hilton (, just next-door to the gig at Melbourne Park, where the Grand Slam tennis is held). The contestants early in the week were not very impressive, and I thought, "I can do better than that". I don't mind making a fool of myself. So I went out and spent $4 on a made-in-China harmonica. I got on the radio, did a medley of "Like A Rolling Stone" and "Rainy Day Women" (!!) in my most nasal and exaggerated manner and.... well.... I won ! So I get to see Bob (and Patti Smith) up real close. My suite in the Hilton might even be next-door to his. Hope he doesn't snore ! -Gerald Mac Melbourne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:20:22 -0700 From: al date Subject: Music Pirates and Tape Trees [I am going to play the Devil's Advocate for a moment (and also recommend the movie)] Is it wrong for more people to listen to Joni Mitchell? Is it wrong for people to make money in voluntary transactions? Is it wrong to repeat expressions? OK, so why is it that someone who copies tapes to make money so that poor people can listen to Joni Mitchell suddenly labeled the Antichrist? The whole concept of intellectual property is pretty damn bogus, IMNSHO. If you want to OWN EXPRESSIONS OF IDEAS, KEEP THEM TO YOURSELF! Once you express something publicly, you CANNOT CONTROL ITS USE! There are not enough lawyers, guns and money in the world to control an expression once it is uttered! How absurd to even try! The answer is blowin in the wind! But why would visionaries keep ideas locked up in their heads, anyways? It does no one any good for artists, writers, programmers and philosophers to keep ideas to themselves. The whole purpose of being an IDEA PERSON is to have your programs and songs and books OUT THERE MULTIPLYING where everyone can use, re-use, synthesize, enjoy, build upon, rehash be inspired and thrive on them. Idea-people have to rely on a certain amount of fame and reputation in order to make money. They cannot count solely on the record company or the book publisher. Music "pirates" offer lower quality copies of human expression for those whose weekly salary may not be enough to buy a commercial CD. What army is going to stop these "pirates," and who is going to pay for it, and why? Music "pirates" make it possible for Joni Mitchell to achieve exposure in parts of the world that otherwise could not afford her. Does this amount to "lost revenue" to Joni Mitchell? Or does it make possible a future Joni Mitchell tour of Asia for fans who were all raised on "robbery?" The only difference between a Tape Tree and a "Pirate" is a profit, as if profit-motive were some kind of wicked evil! The fact that we make tapes for each other at cost simply means that we are non-profit "pirates." TT and Pirate accomplish the same end-result: Joni Mitchell achieves greater exposure among listeners, which increases her marketability and universal appeal. - --Al Diablo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:19:30 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Asking Joni On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:22:28 Mary Pitassi wrote: >> After some years, however, I've learned >> something about the benefits of silence, >> which can yield creative space within which >> to work. Sometimes a "wink and a nod" is >> better than an outright prohibition, which may >> otherwise be necessary to save face, or for >> countless other reasons. Thank you for voicing what I could not put into words. >> In this case, I think it's quite possible that >> Joni is aware of our efforts, and has in fact >> given us her silent nod. >> I vote for leaving well enough alone. I agree with Mary and David and Kenny on this issue. Marian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:27:07 -0700 From: al date Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V3 #266 > > Subject: Re: to buy or not to buy? bootlegs, etc. > > In a message dated 98-07-19 17:38:09 EDT, ORLTed@aol.com writes: > > << on the other hand, making a product > available that is not accessible any other way is a service, not a crime. >> > > Sorry, Ted, but I don't agree. The people selling this "product" and making > money off it have NO RIGHT to do so, regardless of whether you think it is a > valuable service to you or not. IT is not theirs to sell. And if that is true, by what right do we tape treers tape? It is not ours to give away,by your logic. - --Al Date ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:56:05 -0700 From: al date Subject: Stealing from Joni! > Now to bring all this together - when someone records one of Joni's > performances without her permission, that property has been STOLEN from > her, legally and ethically. I sincerely doubt that very many readers of > this list would argue this point, although there are undoubtedly a few. If > Joni gave her permission, then we have a completely different situation. > The problem arises because the stolen property becomes available to us > after the fact, and we desire to possess that property. It is an ethical > dilemma, and not a simple one. What right, if any, do we have to acquire > and "own" this stolen property? > What a bunch of bullshirt. If you steal her guitar or her equipment, then you have really stolen something, because physical possessions cannot be in two places at the same time. Either YOU have the guitar, or JONI has the guitar. But copies of expressions can not only be in more than one place, it is actually to the advantage of the artist to have as wide spread exposure as possible. Expressions can be multiplied infinitely, at no cost to the originator in terms of actual physical loss. That is not theft. Get over it. - --Al Date ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 02:49:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Holliston Subject: ??? NJC (I think) ted in orlando wrote: > I want to end this already, and I sincerely hoped it would not get to this > point, but I just need to say it: GET A LIFE!! This is the biggest bunch of > crap I've ever read. I won't pursue this any further...this even tops the > grammar thread for being a sheer waste of time...you don't have a clue as to > what you are talking about and quite frankly the dime store, second grade > psychology is garbage. Why don't you go arrest some jay-walkers or something > equally significant, before they become serial killers?? ??????????????????????? What the *hell* is this outburst about? You accuse people of not having a clue "as to what [they] are talking about," but make no conspicuous effort to let anyone know what *you* are talking about! I also think it is ironic that you accuse other people of being "holier than thou" for simply expressing their opinions - if that's not "holier than thou," I'd like to know what is, Almighty One! At least a few of us considered the grammar thread to be diverting, entertaining, and, yes, enlightening. If it was a waste of your time, fine and dandy, but what right do you have to imply that it was a waste of everybody's? A rational examination of the pros and cons of bootlegging and piracy belongs on the list, despite the inevitable differences of opinion and outlook. Because of them, in fact. And: "Get a life" is to insults as a twenty-times-used razor blade is to shaving. Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:49:26 EDT From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: Natalie Merchant Hi List, Natalie Merchant's new album Ophelia is very worth listening to. Natalie cites Joni as an influence and a songwriter that she respects. I was a fan of "10,000 Maniacs" Natalie's former band and found her solo debut interesting and perhaps a little melancholic. This new album is a little more upbeat and in my opinion establishes Natalie as one of the premier ballad writers of our time. Of all the "10,000 Maniac" albums, In my Tribe remains my favorite. It sets up some very aural and visual landscapes that you want to go back to again and again. For your listening pleasure, - -Brian PS. I once saw 10,000 Maniacs in concert. Natalie came out into the audience on the lawn and I got the chance to dance with her while she performed. She is now touring with Lillith Fair, has anyone gotten a chance to go? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:08:01 EDT From: MP123A321@aol.com Subject: e-bay joni items Davina posted, responding to Doug?: << E-bay has no motive to spam the joni list as they make the same amount of money from the seller whether the Mingus item sold for $1 or $56. It's the seller that is trying to up the price of the item by luring us to bid against one another.>> I believe E-bay charges the seller a percent of the sale price of the item and a fee for the advertisement. I read that in the recent guidelines for sellers. I bid at E-bay and I really don't like bidding against other JMDLers. I was more upset that people are advertising on the list because it is more competition. I think the prices are outrageous on some items. The Asylum U.S. singles are not that difficult to come by. Before you bid on these, privately e-mail me as I pass them up all the time in local stores...cheap. Now the songbooks and posters...different story. Maurice ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:22:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: re: EBAY I started the EBAY thread unaware that the posts were coming from someone on the list. It appeared to me that we were on some automated list from EBAY. I personally am not into collecting these items, but clearly the EBAY stuff is of interest to many people. I made the mistake of assuming this was unsolicited email to the group. It clearly is not, since gr8fuldave is being kind enough to forward the information and it is of value to the list. Bill On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, gr8fuldave wrote: > Hi everyone. I am responsible forwarding these items for auction at > EBAY. I am NOT affiliated with EBAY and I am NOT selling anything. > > I was simply trying to contribute by performing what I thought was a > service to people interested in ALL THINGS JONI. > > My posts are ON TOPIC and amount to about 1-5 a day. Many people post > OFF TOPIC at a greater frequency and I've never complained. > > I am not quite as up on my Joni trivia so I shy away from the deeper > discussions, while learning from them. I am not interested in throwing > in my views to the MANY OFF TOPIC posts, although I have been tempted. > > So I saw this as a way to contribute thinking that people might want to > bid on such items or even just view the graphics. > > I'll be happy to stop informing you all of these auctions if that is the > general consensus. > > I have had some people write to thank me for the info. > > I put it to the list as to whether I continue with such alerts (1-5 > daily max), or cease. I will abide by the majority opinion. > > But, for the record, I believe my posts are ON TOPIC, are of interest to > some (especially new members, which come along every day), and are a > service to the list. > > Waiting for your opinions, > > Dave > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > DaveBase @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/2349/index.html > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:26:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: (NJC) Re: Natalie Merchant On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 Chilihead2@aol.com wrote: > Of all the "10,000 Maniac" albums, In my Tribe remains my favorite. It sets up > some very aural and visual landscapes that you want to go back to again and > again. In My Tribe is my favorite also, and seems to be preferred by most other maniac fans. I didn't care much for Tigerlily, but will certainly put Ophelia on my list to check out. Bill > > For your listening pleasure, > -Brian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:49:26 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Asking Joni Mary Pitassi wrote: > > > I vote for leaving well enough alone. Amen, sister. As usual, Mary is precise, direct, and correct! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:06:27 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Stealing from Joni! Al wrote -- >If you steal her guitar or her equipment, then you have really stolen something, because physical possessions cannot be in two >places at the same time. Either YOU have the guitar, or JONI has the guitar. > >Expressions can be multiplied infinitely, at no cost to the originator in terms of actual physical loss. > >That is not theft. Get over it. > I'm going to have to point out just a few things here. First of all, "unauthorized duplication" is a crime -- rented a video lately? Now whether it should be or not isn't available for debate, it's on the books as a crime, just like breaking and entering, larceny and not marking posts NJC (depending on whose books you're looking at). Now the cost issue. If we lived in a barter society, or even a cash society, physical costs would be relevant. But since wealth is no longer measured in material or physical terms, the originator does, in fact, sustain "opportunity" losses from piracy of intellectual property. And those losses count, in a legal sense, every bit as much as "actual" loss. So here's the kicker ... while the artist may sustain an "opportunity" loss, we the end-user of their product end up sustaining "actual" losses as compensation. Because of piracy we are denied sonically superior technologies, lose jobs in research and development of these same technologies, pay higher prices for "authorized" cds, videos, books, software ad infinitum, as industries fight to protect material. Is this sounding a little more criminal? Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:06:26 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Fwd: to buy or not to buy? bootlegs, etc. I like to see mature considered responses. Thankyou for recognizing my holy status. Perhaps I could have your life? It sounds wonderful. Saint Cat ORLTed@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-20 17:57:09 EDT, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk > writes: > > from the catman, and several others who i won't bother to forward their > equally holier than thou comments: > > << Obviously, the difference bewtween buying a bootleg and robbing a bank is > vast BUT > the rationalization and self deceit behind it is the same. > If we break a code to buy an illegally made cd, what else might we do to gain > what > we want? So criminals are not much different from the rest of us-they believe > what > they do is okay and those of us that don't have something wrong with us. >> > > I want to end this already, and I sincerely hoped it would not get to this > point, but I just need to say it: GET A LIFE!! This is the biggest bunch of > crap I've ever read. I won't pursue this any further...this even tops the > grammar thread for being a sheer waste of time...you don't have a clue as to > what you are talking about and quite frankly the dime store, second grade > psychology is garbage. Why don't you go arrest some jay-walkers or something > equally significant, before they become serial killers?? > > ted in orlando > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: Fwd: to buy or not to buy? bootlegs, etc. > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:52:00 +0100 > From: catman > To: joni@smoe.org > References: <64da428b.35b3aed1@aol.com> > > I thought Don's point, not an analogy, was apt. > Obviously, the difference bewtween buying a bootleg and robbing a bank is vast > BUT > the rationalization and self deceit behind it is the same. > If we break a code to buy an illegally made cd, what else might we do to gain > what > we want? So criminals are not much different from the rest of us-they believe > what > they do is okay and those of us that don't have something wrong with us. > > I always get mad when i here the peopl around here moan about the amount of > burglaries there are. They make no connection at all with the fact that they > buy > cheap vcr's, hi-fi's etc from local people! The burglars of course are scum- > they > are just clever to spot a good deal when they see one! > > colin > > np:Denise Moser - Bright Side Up - -- Living is the process whereby we create the structures we call meaning. http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk Carly Simon Discussion List http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk/ethericcats/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 07:15:40 -0700 From: Mark or Travis Subject: Re: NJC: Bob and Patti come to town Gerald McNamara wrote: > I got on the radio, > did a medley of "Like A Rolling Stone" and "Rainy Day Women" (!!) > in my most nasal and exaggerated manner and.... well.... I won ! > > So I get to see Bob (and Patti Smith) up real close. > My suite in the Hilton might even be next-door to his. > Hope he doesn't snore ! > > -Gerald Mac > Melbourne > This really brightened up my morning. Way to go, Gerald! Enjoy the concert! Mark in Seattle > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:16:37 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: NJC: Bob and Patti come to town gerald-excellent. I bet you feel grand. Enjoy yourslef. colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:27:40 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: NJC: Bob and Patti come to town Gerald!! That's awesome!! I would not expect any less from a talented McNamara!! Cool beans. Take care, Sue >The contestants early in the week were not very impressive, and I thought, > "I can do better than that". I don't mind making a fool of myself. > So I went out and spent $4 on a made-in-China harmonica. I got on the >radio, > did a medley of "Like A Rolling Stone" and "Rainy Day Women" (!!) > in my most nasal and exaggerated manner and.... well.... I won ! ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:50:43 EDT From: Wolfebite@aol.com Subject: easy on the ebay (njc)- and thanks rob j whew! i guess i'm glad to know it's a person!!!- who's posting these items- in which case- the sense of insinuation by some electronic shopping watchdog is gone! Also- i recognize this as your contribution- and i don't mean to discourage postings!!! my apologies dave. it is a fascinating site- and i'm considering unload my railroad memorabilia collection via eBay. and thanks rob for transcribing the Mojo article. It is an example where the 'bootleg' version has inticed me to buy the original! I still think joni's got this rap against poets- and i think her take is still stuck in some horrid 19th C. conception of the romantic poet. i'd like to recommend a few contemporary poets that would knock her socks off. doug in the mean time ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:59:03 -0400 From: Marsha Subject: Re: NJC: Bob and Patti come to town Gerald McNamara wrote: > So I went out and spent $4 on a made-in-China harmonica. I got on the radio, > did a medley of "Like A Rolling Stone" and "Rainy Day Women" (!!) > in my most nasal and exaggerated manner and.... well.... I won ! > > So I get to see Bob (and Patti Smith) up real close. > My suite in the Hilton might even be next-door to his. > Hope he doesn't snore ! To Gerald, down-under. Congrats on your courage, talent, and great reward for taking a risk... Have a fabu time and tell us all about it...especially your prize-winning hotel adventures! Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:45:43 -0400 From: Heather Subject: Re: (njc) Oprah list update At 12:42 PM 7/16/98 -0400, you wrote: > >www.oprah.com-website has a mailing area with a menu of topics to choose from. > >There has to be more than seven of us who have written! Afterall we are a >community of over 400. >It's quick, painless, and you get the lovely auto-response from Oprah's >staffers. Sue - You're right! It was painless! Count me in on the growing list! Just sent Oprah an e-mail. No response yet. Heather > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:01:02 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Asking Joni Mary said: >I realize that this is really the entire point of the inquiry: Joni's >take on this may differ from ours. And perhaps setting our ethical >worries to rest will be worth the effects of a negative answer, for >some. All I'm saying is: then be prepared for that negative answer. >And I'm not at all sure from the posts that there's consensus on the >list that we *are,* as a list, ready to accept the consequences. > > >In this case, I think it's quite possible that Joni is aware of our >efforts, and has in fact given us her silent nod. > >I vote for leaving well enough alone. > This round robin goes through my head constantly when thinking about the guitar site. My take on this has finally come down to no news is good news. The day Joni says she doesn't like it is the day it comes down. ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:10:16 -0400 From: Heather Subject: response Hi all - this is a copy of the response I received. Thank you for your recent e-mail to Oprah Winfrey. This is just a quick note to let you know that your message has been received. Unfortunately, due to the overwhelming amount of mail that Ms. Winfrey is receiving, she regrets that it is impossible to answer each and every message personally. You can be sure, however, that we do read every single message. We appreciate hearing from you and hope to see you again soon at http://www.oprah.com! Sincerely, The Oprah.com Staff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:14:41 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Asking Joni If you're familiar with "A Man for All Seasons", this is precisely Thomas Moore's point on his silence considering his opinions of King Henry's latest marriage and his supremacy of the church in England -- "silence gives assent". I'll add my name to the list in the hopes that Joni's silence is giving us assent to grow tape trees! :-) Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:14:01 -0500 From: Mary Pitassi Subject: The swing era and TTT Joni said, in the August, 1998 Mojo interview that Rob Jordan was incredibly kind enough to post for us: " I think with Frank Sinatra's death and all, there's a resurgence of interest in that era. Of eras of music, I would say I'm a swing era baby. I love the swing beat. Even though my music doesn't reflect all the kinds of music that I love, it eventually will." Actually, I think it already does--or, at the very least, is starting to, with regard to the swing era. Although I'm hardly an expert in the music of this period ("my mom's music!" ;-)), I hear echoes of the 1940's and '50's all *over* the place in the material from "Taming the Tiger" featured in the KCRW interview last March. Most obviously, Joni includes a Sons of the Pioneers song, "Here's to You," and manages to pull it off quite nicely, even as she places this gem in a contemporary musical setting with VG8 technology. But even more important are the touches I hear in Joni's own songs and in her vocal delivery. The chorus of "Harlem in Havana" seems to be rooted firmly in this musical period. And in the chorus of "Taming the Tiger" itself (especially the line "Tiger, tiger burning bright"), I keep waiting for the entrance of the rest of the Andrews sisters--or was it the Lennon sisters?! At any rate, I hear something in this line that, in a lighter way, Bette Midler revisited with her version of "The Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy of Company B" in the early 1970's. And of course, Midler herself was reaching right back 25 years with that one! From what I've heard so far, TTT seems to be the album in which Joni incorporates the musical roots that formed her as a child to the greatest extent that she has to date. And this strikes me as especially poignant, considering that this music is merged with lyrics detailing her complicated relationship with her 86-year old mother and celebrating her love relationship with fellow Saskatoonian Don Freed, at precisely the point in time that she's found her daughter, Kilauren. Musically, lyrically, and emotionally, Joni is moving forward in new and challenging ways, but in a manner that fully incorporates her roots in all three arenas--although, perhaps especially, the first and third. Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:45:43 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: The swing era and TTT Mary noted this interesting quote from our Joni ... >" I think with Frank Sinatra's death and all, there's a >resurgence of interest in that era. Of eras of music, I would say >I'm a swing era baby. I love the swing beat. Even though my music >doesn't reflect all the kinds of music that I love, it eventually >will." > >Actually, I think it already does--or, at the very least, is starting >to, with regard to the swing era. Although I'm hardly an expert in the >music of this period ("my mom's music!" ;-)), I hear echoes of the >1940's and '50's all *over* the place in the material from "Taming the >Tiger" featured in the KCRW interview last March. > I think there have been a lot of swing inspired moments in the Joni catalog. First to come to mind are the manic Andrews Sisters stylings of "Twisted". Next on the list is the country-western swing influence of "Blue Motel Room", not to mention more than a tip of the fedora to the late, great Patsy Cline (come on y'all, you know you can hear it!) And more recently, there's been Chalk Mark's "Cool Water" ... along with countless melodic and lyrical elements of Benny Goodman and Tommy Dorsey. So the quote itself intrigues me. For what it's worth, I think the swing genre has taken up residence in our Joni's subconsciuous and bubbles forth unbidden into her songs. Herb Alpert and Sergio Mendez/Brazil 66 occupy that space in my own, with the end result that my syncopated compositions are littered with triplets against a four-four beat and Latin percussions, though I'm far from a mariachi! Ole! Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:50:42 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: apology I sense what happened last August is happening again (Old listers)! I'll try my very best to keep my cool, but it's incredibly difficult with this heat. >Sorry... point taken. My apologies to all for over-fueling this thread. > >Don > >> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:11:32 -0500 >> From: Mark Domyancich >> Subject: Morality, Teen Ethics >> >> Listen, people. There are other mailing lists to bitch about stuff that >> doesn't involve Joni. Go find them. >> ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:51:18 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: apology Sorry about that post-I'll try my very best to keep my cool, but it's incredibly difficult with this heat. >Sorry... point taken. My apologies to all for over-fueling this thread. > >Don > >> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:11:32 -0500 >> From: Mark Domyancich >> Subject: Morality, Teen Ethics >> >> Listen, people. There are other mailing lists to bitch about stuff that >> doesn't involve Joni. Go find them. >> ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:41:48 +-100 From: Hassan Zubairi Subject: My Birthday. Little Joni Content It's my Birthday on the 19th August 1998. I will be 26 and I will have lived in the UK for 10 years exactly. I don't know how I feel about this. I will be 26 and still regularly unemployed. I came to England to further my studies and obtain gainful employment. I guess being in this industry I can't expect to be a success overnight or otherwise. I have only been an actor for a year ( one year and 3 days to be precise). Stop feeling depressed. Record of the day: How Do You Stop? by Joni Mitchell. you've had success, lots of fancy friends you've tasted the good life.... Much Joni JamieJake (thankyou Mark for thinking my sig is worth copying) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:08:43 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Doctor/nurse ordered Marsha wrote: So I'm a greedy bitch Joni Mitchell's already rich I crave her voice, even stolen In dough we know she's rollin' So throw me in jail Toss away the key Just give me my walkman And the address to the next tape tree! Marsha you killed me with this one. Thank you!Just what the doctor/nurse ordered. Michael NP-Be Cool-you know who ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:20:06 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Asking Joni I'll follow your lead, Sue. >This round robin goes through my head constantly when thinking about the >guitar site. My take on this has finally come down to no news is good >news. The day Joni says she doesn't like it is the day it comes down. http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/guitar.html NP-Black Crow ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:24:48 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: My Birthday. Little Joni Content Happy Birthday, Jamie! Your'e a great "Songbook hook-upper." Good luck to you! NP-Still BMR "Poster crazy, I am one!" (Dancing fools, you and me!) "Much Joni," ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:33:08 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Thanx to Rob Jordan Dear Rob- Thank you for transcribing the interview with Joni, I am running out the door to go by the thing now. Bless you for investing your time on such a worthy topic. Best wishes, Michael NP-Love- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:44:47 -0500 From: Mary Pitassi Subject: RE: Re: The swing era and TTT Don Rowe wrote: "I think there have been a lot of swing inspired moments in the Joni catalog. First to come to mind are the manic Andrews Sisters stylings of "Twisted". Next on the list is the country-western swing influence of "Blue Motel Room", not to mention more than a tip of the fedora to the late, great Patsy Cline (come on y'all, you know you can hear it!) And more recently, there's been Chalk Mark's "Cool Water" ... along with countless melodic and lyrical elements of Benny Goodman and Tommy Dorsey." I completely agree that "swing-inspired moments" have appeared throughout Joni's body of work, long before TTT. In many of them, Joni does the genre-blending for which she is famous! If "Blue Motel Room" is country western-swing, I'd also place "Dry Cleaner from Des Moines" high on the list as jazz-swing. And anybody want to join me in really pushing boundaries and classifying "Raised on Robbery" as rock-swing?! I hear the latter in some of the musical and vocal phrasings ("shame, it's a shame, it's a crying shame"), not the beat. Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:55:35 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: RE: Re: The swing era and TTT Mary adds ... And anybody want to join me in really pushing boundaries and classifying >"Raised on Robbery" as rock-swing?! I hear the latter in some of the >musical and vocal phrasings ("shame, it's a shame, it's a crying >shame"), not the beat. > >Mary P. > Sure, I'll buy that, even though the much shorter putt is to cite the "boogie-woogie" flavors of "Raised on Robbery" ... I hope I don't draw too much flak for saying that boogie is, itself, a swing derivative, though! Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:10:39 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: The swing era and TTT Joni has many times included Lambert, Hendricks, & Ross as personal favorites. They certainly defined swing as recording and performing artists. Manhattan Tranfer continue to perform in their tradition. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:19:06 EDT From: Seanapper@aol.com Subject: mojo Hi List Reading the Joni interview from Mojo magazine brought up a question I have wondered about for a few years: just what IS a mojo? I don't have a clue what the word means; it's not in my dictionary, and no one I've asked seems to know. "Are you just checking out your mojo/ Or am I just fighting off getting old?..." (Come In From the Cold) Neil in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:32:45 -0700 From: jussi Subject: TTT UK/Europe release date "manager" wrote: > wrote: > > > > I noticed that you already list the new Joni Mitchell CD "Taming The > > Tiger". Your page shows it's for sale from July 17. All official and > > unofficial information from the internet says that it won't be released > > until the end of September. Do you already have it? > > Hi, > > Apparently this item is not due for release until 28/09/98. I expect that > this must have been a cataloguing error which has now been corrected. > > Regards, Phil > > http://www.cdzone.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:40:04 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: mojo Merriam-Webster's CollegiateŽ Dictionary contains 1 item relevant to this query. mo.jo n, pl mojoes or mojos [prob. of African origin; akin to Fulani moco'o medicine man] (1926): a magic spell, hex, or charm; broadly: magical power Jerry, Cybrarian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:39:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: Re: NJC Funny new movie I agree with Julie that Something About Mary is very funny. I would also add that singer Jonathon Richman is featured as a roving balladeer who keeps the story moving along with a drummer who reminds me of Silent Bob from the movie Clerks. Jonathon's band is known as the Modern Lovers and I highly recommend looking into him if you are not familiar with his music. And - Although it didn't make it out in time for the AFI top 100 American films, I just heard that Mike Myers is making a live action movie version of Scooby Doo---- Zoinks! Bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:51:36 -0500 From: Diana Duncan Subject: My Confession Ok! I can't hold back any longer! I have to confess my sins! I have made copies of rented movie videos to view later and have shared them with friends! I have made tapes of music off the radio and cd's and shared them with friends. I have typed up lyrics and poems and shared them with friends. And most horrible, I have even shared computer programs with friends. I am forever damned! BUT... I would sure like to have a copy of one of Joni's concerts in May. There was no way I could go and the experience of hearing it will give me some indication of what it was like. So.. Please...FRIENDS... I'm ready for the new tape tree! Diana, (going out and buying more blanks!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:28:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: My Confession I'm going to tell your mother! Funny. With all this talk about taping and trees and bbots, I took out Video tape tree one and two and watched them all over again last night. I feel so fortunate to have these treasures. What a joy they are. Jerry On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Diana Duncan wrote: > Ok! I can't hold back any longer! I have to confess my sins! > > I have made copies of rented movie videos to view later and have shared > them with friends! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 20:27:02 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: My Confession And I always thought you were an honest, God fearing woman. Please, Diana, you must repent now before it is too late and turn your back against Satan and your wickedness. Eelctronic media is Satan's way of tempting you off the path of salvation. And it worked. Poor Diana. I will pray for the release of your soul from the Kingdom of Darkness. saint cat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:45:29 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Stealing from Joni! << Al wrote -- >If you steal her guitar or her equipment, then you have really stolen something, because physical possessions cannot be in two >places at the same time. Either YOU have the guitar, or JONI has the guitar. > >Expressions can be multiplied infinitely, at no cost to the originator in terms of actual physical loss. >That is not theft. Get over it. > Then dgrowe@hotmail.com writes: I'm going to have to point out just a few things here. First of all, "unauthorized duplication" is a crime -- rented a video lately? Now whether it should be or not isn't available for debate, it's on the books as a crime, just like breaking and entering, larceny and not marking posts NJC (depending on whose books you're looking at). ... So here's the kicker ... while the artist may sustain an "opportunity" loss, we the end-user of their product end up sustaining "actual" losses as compensation. Because of piracy we are denied sonically superior technologies, lose jobs in research and development of these same technologies, pay higher prices for "authorized" cds, videos, books, software ad infinitum, as industries fight to protect material. Is this sounding a little more criminal? Don Rowe And I add: Don, I agree, but there are some people who will always ignore these facts because it's not convenient for them or it doesn't fit in with their personal heirarchy of priorities. I could add an analogy that when we buy a commercial CD of Joni's music, or anyone's, we do not really OWN that music. Like when we pay for computer software, we are purchasing a license to hear that music at our own whim, but it does not give us the right to sell it, or even duplicate it except for our own use as an extension of that license. I could have posted this analogy as if I thought saying this would really help some people understand why they do not OWN the music (or expressions) they purchase at the music store, but then it occurred to me that these same people are probably making as much of an effort or more to sell, distribute or obtain copies of computer software when they have no legal rights to do that, either. Still, maybe it will dissaude a few people of the notion that simply because someone buys a CD of some artists music, they OWN that music. They do not, and any arguments they may make based on that assumption are false. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:54:34 -0400 (EDT) From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave) Subject: Ebay items Hello again, I have enjoyed reading your opinions. The favorable mail/posts I have recieved thus far is outrunning the negative. Those that do not want me to post, site most often, these paraphrased reasons, which I am not buying. My resposes follow: 1. "Everyone knows about Ebay and will check it themselves" Some do not have web access but know others that do. Some pay for their web access and can not afford to check Ebay regularly. Some are new to both this list and Ebay. Some just don't have the time or forget to check on any given day. 2. "It drives up the price and we are bidding against each other" Duh! This is an auction. People bid against each other. The one who wants the item the most, gets it. The winner is not buying the item for everyone on the list, but for his or herself, so this argument is just plain selfish. Also, anyone who bids more than an item is worth should not be bidding in the first place and deserves to be raked on the price. Lastly, who is to say what an item is worth to a particular buyer? Let the high bidder win and live with it. That said, I will continue to give these notices for all those who wrote and ask that I do, BUT, I am trying out a new format, less "Spamish", and, hopefully, more "list friendly". I thank you all, Dave NP: Tape of the Day: 7/21/94 Grateful Dead: Deer Creek, IN. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- DaveBase @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/2349/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:58:34 -0400 (EDT) From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave) Subject: Auction Notice Nice promo only poster issued in 1991 from Geffen for Joni Mitchell.Poster measures approx.21"x35"and features a great close up photo of Jonis face against a flowing gold backround.Thats it really...does say "JONI MITCHELL"at the top.Very nice looking poster and in excellent condition...no staple holes or major creases. All my posters are shipped in heavy duty Scotch mailing tubes...Winner to cover S/H and funds are expected within 7-10 days... No exceptions...serious bidders only..Thanks! Bidding JONI MITCHELL-PROMO POSTER FROM 1991-NICE! (Item #21608880) Current bid$10.00Bid increment$0.50Minimum bid$10.50 ENDS: 6:41 PST No picture www.ebay.com Dave - ----------------------------------------------------------------- DaveBase @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/2349/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:15:06 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Letters on Oprah Hi everyone- On today's Oprah, Oprah is going to answer some of the letters/emails she's received. I'll listen for some mention of Joni. Mark, with his fingers crossed ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:46:06 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Daves Auction (NJC) Hi Dave, I find these posts very interesting indeed. I much prefer these posts as opposed to the nineteen page essays we are subjected to on a regular basis. Go Dave. Sincerely, Michael NP-An American In Paris-Erich Kunzel/Cincinnati Pops ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:41:46 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: RE: NJC Your recommendations pahleeze At 04:23 PM 7/14/98 -0300, you wrote: >I think that one of the greatest musicians for goat dance sessions is Sade. >WallyK > 'Goat dance?' Is that what I think it is? 'Bologna pushups' is what I call it. Anyhoo, the music I find most conducive is Ravel's 'Daphnis & Chloe'. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:54:29 -0400 From: Marsha Subject: Re: apology Mark Domyancich wrote: > > I sense what happened last August is happening again (Old listers)! I'll > try my very best to keep my cool, but it's incredibly difficult with this > heat. Just so you don't go writing any funky-looking parodies, Harpy. Marshy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:11:14 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Letters on Oprah #2 Hi everyone- No mention of Joni on Oprah. Don't give up just yet! She did, however, mention that Jewel is going to be on tomorrow (As if anyone cared!) ;D NP-Coyote ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #269 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?