From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #259 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, July 16 1998 Volume 03 : Number 259 The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: "tourniquet" pronounciation [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Gandalf Publishing ["Kakki" ] Re: "tourniquet" pronounciation (NJC) ["Deb Messling" ] Re: Joni Fav Dish ["Deb Messling" ] Mojo August [Hassan Zubairi ] Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief [Chilihead2@aol.com] gr8fuldave dates [Skin Deep ] Re: Joni Fav Dish (NJC) [DKasc13293@aol.com] Re: Joni Fav Dish (NJC) [catman ] Re: Joni Fav Dish (NJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Oprah mail [Sue ] NJC-grammer police [Sue ] Michel Colombier [Hassan Zubairi ] Joni on the radio [Hassan Zubairi ] Re: A Revisitation [Susan McNamara ] Re: "tourniquet" pronounciation (NJC) [TerryM2442@aol.com] getting back on track (finally!) [Mark or Travis ] eBay auctions [JRMCo1@aol.com] RE: (NJC) Lehrer mailbots [Howard Motyl ] Re: "tourniquet" pronunciation (NJC) [briano@interisland.net (Odlum, Bria] Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (NJC) [briano@interisland.net (Odlum, Br] (njc) Oprah list update [Sue ] Tolkien, Chess, and who? [Bounced Message ] Swampchick's pal E.T. [Bounced Message ] Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (NJC) [catman ] Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (NJC) [Bounced Message ] Interesting item on eBay web site item#20751994: Joni Mitchell - Chalk Mark Promo Box [k] Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (NJC) [briano@interisland.net (Odlum, Br] Kakki...Mahi Mahi...Aloha! (NJC) [Marsha ] Re: Kakki...Mahi Mahi...Aloha! (NJC) [Marsha ] Re: getting back on track (finally!) [kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)] shrink [Bounced Message ] Aloha ["Kakki" ] Re: NJC Aloha Kakki ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (NJC) [catman ] Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (NJC) [Linda Brady ] Re: Grammar (NJC) [Thomas Ross ] Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (NJC) [catman ] Re: (njc) Oprah list update [Beverly ] OTSFM, Oprah and Off Line for too long... [Scott and Jody > I say "tur-ni-kit" and learned as a boy scout to place them between the wound and the heart. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 00:58:24 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Gandalf Publishing Bill wrote: > Also, before siquomb, wasn't joni publishing > under the name gandalf? I recall that a few of Joni's real early songs were Gandalf Publishing. I lost the first songbook a few years back, but think that they were some of the never-recorded-on-album songs like Winter Lady, Carnival in Kenora, Strawflower Me (?), etc. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 06:07:53 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: "tourniquet" pronounciation (NJC) Julius, if you know how to use one, I don't care how you pronounce it > I say "tur-ni-kit" and learned as a boy scout to place them between the wound > and the heart. > > -Julius > > Fred Walzenfree ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:56:02 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: "tourniquet" pronounciation Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > > > BTW, a "torch" in the USA is a stick with fire on the end of it. > Apparently in the UK a torch is a flashlight. Imagine my shock when my > British car repair manual suggested looking into the gas tank with a > "torch"! Don't you mean petrol tank? ;-)btw there are NO British car co's now. Except for something called TVR that make a sports car. Ford is the most popular make of car here-therfore I don't own one! mine's a Daewoo. bw colin > > > Colin said: > > On The Jungle Line Joni mentions poppy tourniquet. She sings > > tur-nee-kit. I have only heard this said as tor- nee- kay. > > So is joni using artistic licence or is that the way Canadians > > pronounce that word? > -- > All the best, > Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 06:10:34 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: Joni Fav Dish But not kosher. Remember that one of her favorite dishs includes pork. > Chilihead may be right about Joni being a fishetarian - Fred Walzenfree ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:50:11 +-100 From: Hassan Zubairi Subject: Mojo August I have just bought the August Issue of Mojo 'The American Giants' Issue and on the cover sharing with Prince, James Brown, Gene Clarke, Randy Newman and Dr John is JONI MITCHELL!!!!! I haven't read the whole interview but it starts witha review of the Warner tapings and it has great photos - whole page spreads - nothing later than Stormy Weather photos - you can tell by the hair - it's still long. But there are clear photogs of the house, Joni playing pinball, painting, smokin', on the dulcimer, photos I have never seen recycled before. Ohhhhhhhh I'm in ecstasy. JamieJake ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 06:10:37 EDT From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief Hi List, So it seems Joni could possibly be a fishetarian? TheWinn Dixie cold cuts were probably just cheese ;-) "What should I be? doctor, lawyer, Indian Chief?"-Joni Mitchell I've been making good use of this time recovering from a back surgery (the whole Enchilada --screws,fusions, and automobiles) and will be taking the bar exam at the end of July. Still being a tribal chieftain is perhaps the most useful and certainly the most needed of these three professions from what I can see. Not too mention the lack of witch doctors. The closest I've gotten to a witch doctor lately, is which doctor did this and which doctor did that! Nothing like a good witch doctor to shrink your head. Sure beats years on the couch and your wallet saying ouch. I will be keeping a low profile on the list for a couple of weeks, BUT if anyone hears news of Joni shows on the East coast, please, please, send me an e-mail directly. I also e-mailed Oprah and suggested that she have the "Artists' artist on". I tried to make the same suggestion to Rosie O'Donnell but couldn't find an e- mail address. May your summer be ripe and juicy, - -Brian (Chili) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 03:24:53 -0700 From: Skin Deep Subject: gr8fuldave dates She played the Berkeley Community Center on March 2ed according to her bio on Wally's web page. I was at this performance and I'm wondering if any one else caught it? For her to pick up Robben Ford, who had been tearing up the Bay Area only months earlier, was my dream come true. She was HOT. That was one Whale of a show. Here's the thing. When we stepped out after the show, it had hailed and the Berkeley streets had been turned white.... I would have liked to have heard Stormy Weather at the W.Brothers taping . Ms Mitchell singing Stormy Weather, imagine. No Nets. Who's Fred Walzenfree? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:01:48 EDT From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Fav Dish (NJC) In a message dated 98-07-16 01:25:33 EDT, kakkib@att.net writes: << It says that Chef Peter Roelant's dish of "warm baby red-skinned potatoes filled with lavender-smoked salmon and topped with Ostera caviar are a favorite of Dustin Hoffman, Warren Beatty and Joni Mitchell." I now expect Chili and Duane to try this at home and let us know the results. ;-) >> Kakki, How did you know that I had had plans to visit Provence to pick up some lavender, "accept for the work I've taken on." My friends in Scotland called and offered to send over some salmon though. My sister Alexis, just happens to be sailing the Black Sea this summer, but won't be returning with until the Fall! What's a guy to do? Honestly, one of the great advantages of living in NYC is the abundance of culinary diversity. Anything and everything can be had at a moments notice, if you are will to pay the price. The competitive nature of the food service business in NYC is so fierce and demanding. Well, off to supervise a colored tile floor installation! (Boring!) This is the reoccurring dream, born in the dreary gap between..... Glamour, before your very eyes! May our lovers look like movie stars, Duane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:59:21 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni Fav Dish (NJC) You will need: Garlic Spring onions Oyster Mushrooms Squid Chinese Fish Balls Prawns Choi Sum(chinese flowering cabbage) or Spinach Green peppers fresh chillies. Rice noodles Flat(cooked aldente) Put 30mls of extra virgin olive in wok heated on full. Chuck everything but the noodles in the wok. Stir fry for a while but not too long. then chuck in the noodles and stir fry a bit more. Shake some soy or terryaki sauce on. Mix well and serve. Alternatively: use vermacelli rice noodles. When stuff is stir fried pour in 1 pt of water. bring to boil. Add veg stock cubes. Place rice noodles(uncooked) into large bowl. Empty contents of wok on top of noodles. Wait a few minutes and the noodles will be cooked and the 'soup' cool enough to eat.(that is what i am having for lunch today!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:58:11 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Fav Dish (NJC) In a message dated 98-07-16 08:03:29 EDT, colin@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << You will need: Garlic Spring onions Oyster Mushrooms Squid Chinese Fish Balls >> How do you tell the male Chinese fishes from the female Chinese fishes so you can .... oh, never mind. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:58:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Subject: Oprah mail From what I have received here are the people that have mailed Oprah and gotten a response: Me Kenny Chilihead I am sure there are others who just haven't gotten back to me. Sorry if I have excluded anyone from this list. Info for Bev who must have been on vacation when the news broke: Joni is appearing at a benefit concert in Chicago. Problem is, tickets are $5,000 a pair. In leiu of catching her at the benefit, it was someones great idea to bombard Oprah with requests to have Joni on her show. I wrote to Oprah through her website - www.oprah.com Doug, I have a big favor to ask...do you still have the initial information about the benefit concert? If so could you please repost it? Sorry about the bandwidth, but seems as if some folks may have missed the chance to jump on the Oprah bandwagon. I saw more people saying that they had written McNeil/Lehrer to correct a mistake than wrote the queen of daytime TV to request that our Joni appear. FYI Chilihead - Joni has been on Rosie, and Rosie's brother is a huge fan of Joni's, so if there is a chance that she will be in NY I am sure Rosie will have her back on. Their conversation was so cute, and I find that Rosie likes guests that will be spontaneous and try anything - altoids and ricola wasn't it Julie? Anywho kids, keep those cards and letters commin'. We are a big community that needs to show it's clout! The fact that we aren't hitting Oprah's mailbox all at once may actually help us. BTW - Terry, I would try to mailing again if you truely didn't get a response. Everyone else did, so yours must not have gone through. Class, that is your assignment. It is due before August 15. Although regular school is out, summer school is in session. Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:08:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Subject: NJC-grammer police Oh lordy! The apostrophe police are going to be after me! I just read my post (after sending of course!) My weakness of it's - its is showing. Plus I think I missed the possessive apostrophe in someone's! Please, my arms are already tired from my last softball game, I don't think they will hold up to a crucifixtion today! Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:55:27 +-100 From: Hassan Zubairi Subject: Michel Colombier Bolvangar wrote: Who is Michel Colombier and why is he credited in Otis and Marlena? JamieJake replies: In the Come In From The Cold video, which has now been deleted, Joni mentions Michel Colombier (pron. Michelle - he's probably French in origin) who taped his piano up to stop anyone playing it as it was tuned. As she was recording WTRF, the band still wanted to play something else so she had these chord changes which she was looking at at the time and wanted to play this with the band, except the only piano in the studio was protected by masking tape in a big x with 'do not touch' in the middle like a spider. It was signed Michel Colombier. As to who he is apart from a sessionist? I dunno. What came out from that recording session was Two Grey Rooms which I'm glad happened the way it did. The piano playing is very different in Otis and Marlena and correct me if I'm wrong Harry's House/Centrepiece because it is not Joni Mitchell playing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:07:09 +-100 From: Hassan Zubairi Subject: Joni on the radio I'm still reading the Mojo interview. While doing this the radio: Melody FM started playing Tin Angel from Clouds but only got to Tarnished Beads on Tapestries before playing Wet Wet Wet's Love is all around. I am outraged!!!! Unless, I caught the end of the song... I can't remember, does it repeat? No, it doesn't. Only the guitar intro repeats as an outro. :-( NOW, They're playing MAtthew's Southern Comfort version of Woodstock!!!! Oh these things are sent to try us!!!! Help ME!!!!!!! JamieJake There will be some strong words!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:41:56 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: A Revisitation >Has it ever happened to you, when you've put aside an album of Joni's for a >while, and then you play it with a fresh ear, and it just knocks you off you >feet, and therefore, your belief in being fanatical about her talent is >reaffirmed? > I've recently gone back to For the Roses after awhile and it is really an amazing burst of genius. I see that album as the real turning point for Joni from the initial cleansing of Blue to the more complex imagery and symphonic style of FTR. Awe inspiring. Been playing Barangrill in a continuous loop on guitar. this line always mystifies me: It's just a trick on you Her mirror and your will ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:13:32 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: "tourniquet" pronounciation (NJC) In a message dated 7/16/98 5:59:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, messling@enter.net writes: << Julius, if you know how to use one, I don't care how you pronounce it >> Good point. I REALLY think we're getting out of hand here with the grammer police. I'm certain that there are people lurking who may become intimidated by this and therefore will be reluctant to post. I hereby announce that each and every one of my posts will have grammer errors in those. Loosen up you guys! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 07:18:27 -0700 From: Mark or Travis Subject: getting back on track (finally!) Whew! Last night I finally got caught up on all the digests and resubscribed to the list proper. You've been busy little Jmdlers while I was gone! It seems I missed an eventful couple of weeks. Actually we've been home since Monday the 6th but unfortunately I somehow twisted my back the wrong way in a swimming pool in Visalia California and sitting has been problematic. But we did have a wonderful drive through about 2/3rds of the state of California and saw many wonderful things. It was SO GREAT to see a post from Wally! Hang in there, Wally! Don't lose sight of that light at the other end of the forest. Get stronger and heal! I just want to say here that I think Simon is one of the treasures of the JMDL. Not only a great source of information and tape tree guru, he always has something thought-provoking and relevant to say. Thank you, Simon. I'm so glad you're in there posting again. We were missing you for a while there. Thanks to Julsie for her kind words and vibes. Travis relayed them to me. Colin, did you get the tape I sent you? It's great to be back amongst the faithful again. Mark in Seattle (Please don't rake me over the coals for my grammar, punctuation, etc! Have pity on a poor dumb, ignorant boy from Iowa! And I NEVER LIVED ON A FARM, OK??) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:19:02 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Sunday Acts announced The Sunday, Aug 16 acts have been announced for Day at the Garden: 11:00 am Dishwalla 12:00 noon Joan Osborne 1:30 pm Marcy Playground 3:00 pm Goo Goo Dolls 5:00 pm Third Eye Blind ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:19:16 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: eBay auctions It occurs to me that we jimdlers are bidding against each other on eBay and driving up the price on all things Joni! That's a pity, I think. Why don't we just resolve to let one representative buy all the stuff and just raffle it off amongst ourselves, with any proceeds going to the web sites or a Wally fund? I don't like bidding against my own list sisters and bros, but I do love Joni stuff. What do you guys think? - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:11:59 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: RE: (NJC) Lehrer mailbots >>>From: Michael Yarbrough Subject: (NJC) Lehrer mailbots Now, I mean this in the nicest possible way and I hope no one thinks I'm trying to stir things up or anything, but I just have to say to this whole thread on the canned response to our Lehrer letters: "Give me a break!" Do you really think it makes sense for a not-for-profit quasi-alternative to corporate-controlled media to spend precious dimes paying a staffer to rack his or her brain for unique responses to our substantially similar mailbombs? At least we get a reply letting us know that our mail was indeed received. And we can probably rest assured that it at least will be scanned, as they probably look for comments to mention on the air from time to time. And they'll have to notice the uncharacteristically numerous mentions of Joni Mitchell in their scanning, and they'll probably take a closer look, and, yes, the error will probably be corrected on air as a result of our little campaign. And I think that's fabulous. As a supporter of public broadcasting, though, I would be a little perturbed, if not irate, if a real person actually wasted his or her time doing nothing more productive than writing individual responses to our mails. After all, do *you* write individual responses to all of the email *you* receive?<<< I know for a fact that the messages get read because the president of our company was just on Tues PM's show, talking about the Zapruder film, and the producer called us the next day to tell us that the response to the segment was overwhelming and almost entirely supporting us and not the elitist historians that were hoping to protect all the poor Americans who cannot decide for themselves what they should watch or not watch. So, while you may not receive a personal response--and frankly, I am surprised you expected one; you must realize they get hundreds of letters and emails and calls--do know that the messages are read. Howard Howard Motyl Producer, MPI Teleproductions http://www.mpimedia.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:14:42 -0700 From: briano@interisland.net (Odlum, Brian) Subject: Re: "tourniquet" pronunciation (NJC) I'm not sure, but I think this word is originally from the French language, and if that's true, it would explain the confusion regarding its pronunciation. Any French speaking members out there who can confirm this hunch? Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:21:14 -0700 From: briano@interisland.net (Odlum, Brian) Subject: Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (NJC) > From: Chilihead2@aol.com > > Nothing like a good witch doctor to shrink your head. Sure beats years on the > couch and your wallet saying ouch. I've always liked the colloquial and profane reference to psychiatrists as "shrinks". It reminds one of the history of their profession and the magical status they should all possess (although almost none do anymore). Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:42:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Subject: (njc) Oprah list update Oprah list as of 12:44 est: Me Kenny Chilihead Don Rowe Phyliss - no response Pearl Terry - no response www.oprah.com-website has a mailing area with a menu of topics to choose from. There has to be more than seven of us who have written! Afterall we are a community of over 400. It's quick, painless, and you get the lovely auto-response from Oprah's staffers. Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:33:57 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Tolkien, Chess, and who? From: "Eric Jaimes" Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:43:20 -0400 Heh heh heh. My eyes lit up when I saw Tolkien on the subject list. Admittedly, I've been trashing most of these digests after a quick glance lately, because I am totally swamped with e-mails and junk. But I just had to throw my two cents in about Tolkien, one of my favorite authors. Bilbo Baggins, take me away! And as for chess, you can find me almost any day of the week at lunchtime out in Bryant Park here in midtown Manhattan getting stomped in blitz by hustlers. But it's fun. I admit, I don't quite see how Bob Dylan fits into this extraordinary category, but as long as we agree to leave his son (Wallflowers) a few light years out of the picture I guess we're on the same page! I'm toying around with the idea of going to "A Day in the Garden," incidentally, on Saturday I think, with Joni & Pete. Trying to save money, so the $70 ticket isn't exactly motivating. But I'll probably go. Who else is going? Anyone from NY area? Life is good today. Siquomb. I mean....Gandolf! Cheers, Eric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:33:10 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Swampchick's pal E.T. From: "Eric W Taylor" Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 02:14:57 -0400 Aloha Siquombites! I'm back home for a few days and have only read a few digests during the past month. I'm remodelling a cottage on Lake Erie near Fredonia, NY. Swampchick is our neighbor. She's a wetlands engineer, hence her handle. I turned her on to Joni & she still has my entire CD collection. So I'm Joniless until I return next Monday. Swampchick unsubscribed from the JMDL because she is so swamped with work & email, but we still might hear from her again once she gets hooked... I'm also currently unsubscribed for the same reason. So I hope this reaches y'all without bouncing too much. And thanx, Les, for being such an attentive webmaster! Including e-addresses at the top of the list is a great solution to links cutting-out halfway down the list. The grammer thread was entertaining. The only thing I'd like to add is that "English" is the tongue of mutts, comprised of all languages. I personally like to learn new words and slang. Resistance to current culture is a sure sign that you are getting old. Just contemplate your parents complaining about Elvis & the Beatles. Aloha (loosely translated: "hello," "goodbye," and "love") E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 19:14:10 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (NJC) A shrink is called a shrink, as far as I am aware, because a good one will help you to shrink your ego. Good therapy does that. My own shrink confirms the meaning and quite likes the handle. I am not sure what you mean by prfane. I have only heard it used in reference to saying God or Jesus as an expletive. Or to words such as fuck. colin Odlum, Brian wrote: > > From: Chilihead2@aol.com > > > > Nothing like a good witch doctor to shrink your head. Sure beats years on > the > > couch and your wallet saying ouch. > > I've always liked the colloquial and profane reference to psychiatrists as > "shrinks". It reminds one of the history of their profession and the > magical status they should all possess (although almost none do anymore). > > Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:42:37 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (NJC) There's a colloquialism from the 1940's in America, a term for psychiatrists as "head shrinkers" -- and, while perhaps not quite profane, it was certainly not meant as a compliment. If the meaning has changed for the positive over the years, I'm glad to hear it! Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:44:30 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (NJC) From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:37:47 EDT In a message dated 98-07-16 14:17:14 EDT, colin@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << A shrink is called a shrink, as far as I am aware, because a good one will he.lp you to shrink your ego. Good therapy does that. My own shrink confirms the meaning and quite likes the handle. I am not sure what you mean by prfane. I have only heard it used in reference to saying God or Jesus as an expletive. >> I don't think "profane" applies, either, thoughthe euphemism is certainly less than a formal reference to a psychatrist. It is similar to calling a taxi driver a hack or a police officer a cop. By the way, as Colin may know, "cop" orignated as a nickname for the London bobbies, who were called "coppers" for the buttons on their uniform. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:50:28 -0400 (EDT) From: kb420@webtv.net Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#20751994: Joni Mitchell - Chalk Mark Promo Box I saw this item for sale at eBay, the world's largest personal trading community, and thought that you might be interested. NP:Tape of the Day: 7/16/70 Grateful Dead w/ Janis Joplin Euphoria Ballroom, San Rafael, CA. Title of item: Joni Mitchell - Chalk Mark Promo Box Seller: billy.harrow@btinternet.com Starts: 07/10/98 10:42:19 PDT Ends: 07/17/98 10:42:19 PDT Price: Currently $55.00 To bid the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=20751994 Item Description: Joni Mitchell - "Chalk Mark In A Rain Storm" promo box press kit. The press kit comprises of a special box featuring the cover shot of "Chalk Mark" and includes a b+w promo photo of Joni, a history and track by track info sheet, a full cassette of the album and a special 3" promo CD of "Snakes and Ladders". A unique item to add to your Joni Mitchell colection. Buyer pays all shipping costs. Good Luck! Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at http://www.ebay.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 11:55:16 -0700 From: briano@interisland.net (Odlum, Brian) Subject: Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (NJC) > From: catman > A shrink is called a shrink, as far as I am aware, because a good one will help > you to shrink your ego. Good therapy does that. My own shrink confirms the > meaning and quite likes the handle. > I am not sure what you mean by prfane. I have only heard it used in reference > to saying God or Jesus as an expletive. Or to words such as fuck. Hi Colin, If all your psychiatrist is doing is helping you to "shrink your ego" then IMO you ought to find a better witch doctor. Aside from the fact that diminishing the ego (a concept from the Freudian model of the psyche) is probably impossible, it's also not desirable. Have you looked into other models of the psyche (Jung, Alder, etc.)? I always thought the term "shrink" was coined to refer to psychiatrists as witch doctors, who, among other things, shrunk heads (literally). This misunderstood practice was the custom of only a few Indian tribes, in South America I think. But I could be wrong about all of this, my anthropological knowledge is pretty weak. Hey, do you live in the UK? Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:11:02 -0400 From: Marsha Subject: Kakki...Mahi Mahi...Aloha! (NJC) Our Kakki is leaving the roasting West Coast for the land of lais, lanais, and Lahina. Lucky Kakki! Aloha, Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:13:32 -0400 From: Marsha Subject: Re: Kakki...Mahi Mahi...Aloha! (NJC) Marsha wrote: > Lahina. Whoops, make that "Lahaina" Marsh, being dragged off by the spellcheckers... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:30:04 -0400 (EDT) From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave) Subject: Re: getting back on track (finally!) Mark in Seattle complains: >sitting has been problematic. You need a Webtv, Mark. Right now I'm comfortably reclined in my LazyBoy in my living room typing onto my 25" TV set. I could just as easily be lying on the couch or even upstairs in bed if iI move the unit which is quite small. Take care of that back, friend! Dave NP: Tape of the Day 7/16/97 Bruce Hornsby: Cincinatti, OH - ----------------------------------------------------------------- DaveBase @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/2349/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:36:08 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: shrink Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:25:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" >From The Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins: ...a comparison to the medicine men of primitive tribes who literally shrunk heads to work magic; headshrink may refer to the shrinking, or lessening, of problems in a patient's head. Editorial comment: I hardly think it is a complimentary term. Jerry, Cybrarian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:46:45 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Aloha Mahalo, Marsha Once in awhile in a big blue moon My bosses set me free From law firm entrophy Lucky Me Flight from L.A. To Hana Road..... I'll leave the smog behind me Tripping on the tropic shores No phones till (next) Friday No voice mail messages No bores and chores galore Back to the beach To the land where "Kakki" Is my real-life name :-) Escape from pain and strain In Pineapple Plains Flight from L.A. To Hana Road Will miss you all and wish you were there! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:55:14 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Re: NJC Aloha Kakki Have a great trip Kakki and don't forget to check out authentic Hawaiian music: I've heard that when Hawaiian people compose a song, especially when they are in love, everything around them reminds them of love, the caressing of the wave, the whispering of the wave, the wind that passes over them -because they know the aina (land). They are people of the land. It's not just walking on it, it's part of them. But I could take or leave Hawaiin quisine (sp?) Bon voyage, Kakki (sp?) JulieZW, who is wondering if there are any jmdlers in Maui..... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:49:19 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (NJC) Here a hack is a journalist. colin IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-16 14:17:14 EDT, colin@ethericcats.demon.co.uk > writes: > > << A shrink is called a shrink, as far as I am aware, because a good one will > help > you to shrink your ego. Good therapy does that. My own shrink confirms the > meaning and quite likes the handle. > I am not sure what you mean by prfane. I have only heard it used in reference > to saying God or Jesus as an expletive. >> > > I don't think "profane" applies, either, thoughthe euphemism is certainly > less than a formal reference to a psychatrist. It is similar to calling a > taxi driver a hack or a police officer a cop. By the way, as Colin may know, > "cop" orignated as a nickname for the London bobbies, who were called > "coppers" for the buttons on their uniform. > > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:12:25 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (NJC) Odlum, Brian wrote: > Hi Colin, > > If all your psychiatrist is doing is helping you to "shrink your ego" then > IMO you ought to find a better witch doctor. Aside from the fact that > diminishing the ego (a concept from the Freudian model of the psyche) is > probably impossible, it's also not desirable. Have you looked into other > models of the psyche (Jung, Alder, etc.)? First my shrink is not a psychiatrist. I wouldn't touch one of them with a barge pole. I am well read on many different styles of therapy-the eclectic style I have experienced this last 4 yrs is the only one that has ever helped. mainly because my shrink sees me as a human being who can make choices and whose pain is real rather than just a biochemical malfunction. he has always listened and put me and my wishes or thoughts before his own. Has never once told me what I should do or what he thought was 'wrong' with me. Instead he offered compassion and empathy and a listening ear and nonjudgemental support.The way I see the ego shrinking is this: I used to think i was responsible for everything, that I had power that I did not have. I used to think that a child had the power to stop an abuser abusing, I used to think i had the power to change another person, I used to think i had the power to change the past, I used to think I had the power to alter another's behaviour. i used to think that it was I who caused others to behave badly. Now I don't. I think that can be classed as an ego-shrinking! I no longer believe I can control my world, I no longer believe I can stop myself getting cancer, I no longer believe that if I repeat a positive affrimation ad nauseum that it will make that positive affirmation come true! One would think that accepting ones powerlessness would make things far worse. actually it gives you power! Today i am happy for the first time ever in my life, I have a good opinion of myself, am more compassionate, much less stressed, more able to love others and not worrry about whether or not others like me, I am able to think for myself and have my own opions. I am able to be myself. Personally, I think my shrink is excellent. 20 yrs of psychiatric 'care' and 'medication' did nothing for me at all but damage me further. In the end I care not what school of thought is used-it works for me. I am more inclined towards people such as the ex-Psychoanalyst, Alice Miller and the Clinical Psychologist Dr Dorothy Rowe. As far as I am concerned they really know their stuff. For me, the wisdom of their words is to be found in their practice. bw colin ps Yes I live in the UK, in London. > > > I always thought the term "shrink" was coined to refer to psychiatrists as > witch doctors, who, among other things, shrunk heads (literally). This > misunderstood practice was the custom of only a few Indian tribes, in South > America I think. But I could be wrong about all of this, my anthropological > knowledge is pretty weak. > > Hey, do you live in the UK? > > Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 17:20:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: Washington Post interview (LJC) I just spoke with mike mills, the Washington Post reporter who did the great article on wally and the web site. I had left a message suggesting that an article on the closing of the on line guitar archive (olga) might make an interesting feature. Mike interviewed me and has also interviewed the scumbags at harry fox agency who have acted with legal threats to close down the guitar archive which has been used by musicians around the world to share information about songs, chords, licks, tunings and lotsa other stuff. Look for it in the Business section in Mondays post. later, Bill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 23:49:26 +0100 From: Linda Brady Subject: Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (NJC) Colin, This is an incredibly eloquent discussion of why therapy is such a powerful tool, and why good therapists are so important to acknowledge. I echo your sentiments entirely. Nice one. Linda > First my shrink is not a psychiatrist. I wouldn't touch one of them with a > barge pole. I am well read on many different styles of therapy-the eclectic > style I have experienced this last 4 yrs is the only one that has ever helped. > mainly because my shrink sees me as a human being who can make choices and > whose pain is real rather than just a biochemical malfunction. he has always > listened and put me and my wishes or thoughts before his own. Has never once > told me what I should do or what he thought was 'wrong' with me. Instead he > offered compassion and empathy and a listening ear and nonjudgemental > support.The way I see the ego shrinking is this: I used to think i was > responsible for everything, that I had power that I did not have. I used to > think that a child had the power to stop an abuser abusing, I used to think i > had the power to change another person, I used to think i had the power to > change the past, I used to think I had the power to alter another's behaviour. > i used to think that it was I who caused others to behave badly. > Now I don't. I think that can be classed as an ego-shrinking! > I no longer believe I can control my world, I no longer believe I can stop > myself getting cancer, I no longer believe that if I repeat a positive > affrimation ad nauseum that it will make that positive affirmation come true! > One would think that accepting ones powerlessness would make things far worse. > actually it gives you power! Today i am happy for the first time ever in my > life, I have a good opinion of myself, am more compassionate, much less > stressed, more able to love others and not worrry about whether or not others > like me, I am able to think for myself and have my own opions. I am able to be > myself. > > Personally, I think my shrink is excellent. 20 yrs of psychiatric 'care' and > 'medication' did nothing for me at all but damage me further. > In the end I care not what school of thought is used-it works for me. > I am more inclined towards people such as the ex-Psychoanalyst, Alice Miller > and the Clinical Psychologist Dr Dorothy Rowe. As far as I am concerned they > really know their stuff. For me, the wisdom of their words is to be found in > their practice. > > bw > colin > > ps Yes I live in the UK, in London. > > > > > > > I always thought the term "shrink" was coined to refer to psychiatrists as > > witch doctors, who, among other things, shrunk heads (literally). This > > misunderstood practice was the custom of only a few Indian tribes, in South > > America I think. But I could be wrong about all of this, my anthropological > > knowledge is pretty weak. > > > > Hey, do you live in the UK? > > > > Brian > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 00:03:10 +0100 From: Rob Jordan Subject: Mojo does it again! Hi there any old friends who remember me - I'm still out here skimming the digests. I just picked up the latest copy of the UK magazine Mojo and was amazed to find a 16 PAGE LAVISHLY ILLUSTRATED INTERVIEW! with Joni. It's by Dave DiMartino again, the guy who wrote last month's rave review of one of the Pauley shows. It's a good interview and the photos are a real treat; many old and some brand new including shots of Joni at home which will have out "Home and Garden" contingent enraptured! Look out for the mag and buy it if you can - I'm sure it gets exported to the US, though at what price, I don't know. I'll see if I can knock out a transcript and post it in serial form over then next few days. Oh and by the way, Joni quotes Wally aka "the fellow who runs my web site"! It seems Wally had the temerity to suggest Joni might put out albums a little more frequently, like she did in the old days. Best wishes to you Wally! Rob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 19:14:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Ross Subject: Re: Grammar (NJC) yes and aalthough usage maarches on, I lament the passing of unique because nothing else says it so tersely. TR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 00:18:11 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (NJC) Linda Brady wrote: > Colin, > This is an incredibly eloquent discussion of why therapy is such a powerful > tool, and why good therapists are so important to acknowledge. I echo your > sentiments entirely. Nice one. Thanks Linda. i tell you the journey has been difficult-so many weirdo's out there calling themselves therapists. And I do mean the ones with degrees and 'proper' qualifications. One guy i saw warned me at my frist session that I would probably fall in love with him due to 'transference'! Obviously he knew nothing of transference. if I had experienced that and transfered my rage toward my parents to him he would be the one to have something to worry about! Another woman staetd I was her first client and spent the first session bemoaning how much it had cost her to train and how desperate she was to find clients! Another, with respectable letters after her name, told me that my life had been such because in a previous life I had been a wicked princess! talk about blaming the victim! Mind you, in this life I am a good queen! Another who told me that Jesus allowed all this to happen so that I would find Him. To me if that were true, I would find Him and give him a piece of mind. another who thought my love of Carly and Joni showed I was really hetrosexual. Another, when i responded I felt angry, said'don't use psychological jargon with me! Get real.' however, being a tenacious bugger with a strong will to survive, i kept going till i found the two i now have. The second is a friend of my shrink and they have both become personal friends. Both are old enough to be my parents and at times I have used them as such. Therapy can be described as good reparenting. Although I don't have the need now, it was at first necessary for me to have 24hr access which i was given and still have if i needed it. Good therapy to me equals good loving. bw colin - -- but who is it who is so eager to see that society’s norms are observed, who persecutes and crucifies those with the temerity to think differently - -if not the ones who have had a ‘proper upbringing’? They are the ones who learned as children to accept the death of their souls and not to notice it until they are confronted with the vitality of their young or adolescent children. Then they must try to stamp out this vitality, so they will not be reminded of thier own loss. Alice Miller. http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 18:35:49 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Washington Post interview (LJC) Me thinks Harmony Central is a mirror of OLGA. The last time I was there (This was about a month ago) they had their tab up. It could be gone now, though. Any word yet on the mirror sites in other countries?? http://www.harmony-central.com At 5:20 PM -0400 7/16/98, Bill Dollinger wrote: >I just spoke with mike mills, the Washington Post >reporter who did the great article on wally and >the web site. I had left a message suggesting >that an article on the closing of the on line guitar >archive (olga) might make an interesting feature. > >Mike interviewed me and has also interviewed the >scumbags at harry fox agency who have acted >with legal threats to close down the guitar >archive which has been used by musicians around >the world to share information about songs, chords, >licks, tunings and lotsa other stuff. > >Look for it in the Business section in Mondays >post. > >later, >Bill ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:41:39 -0700 From: briano@interisland.net (Odlum, Brian) Subject: Re: Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief (NJC) > Linda Brady wrote: > > > Colin, > > This is an incredibly eloquent discussion of why therapy is such a powerful > > tool, and why good therapists are so important to acknowledge. I echo your > > sentiments entirely. Nice one. What discussion? Did I miss a few posts? What post(s) are you referring to Linda, I don't think I received them. Thanks. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 19:30:55 -0500 From: rkbjf Subject: brad's back/bay area jmdlers Kind and gentle JMDLers, The karmic hammers have been pounding me lately. I've been brutalized! Both Kim and I lost our jobs, a week apart. Kim's not employed yet, but I found a new gig that's paying me more money, but the checks aren't flowing yet. The nest egg is gone and at this point i'm so broke I can't even pay attention! I won't bore with anymore. We've been planning a trip to San Francisco. We have the airline tix and the hotel lined up. Now it's just a matter of weather or not we can somehow pull this off financially. If all goes well, we'll be in S.F. from Thursday July 30th until tuesday August 4th. I'd like to meet you bay area JMDLers one night while we're there, if you're up for it. We don't have much time to kick it around, but e-mail me and let me know what you think. It's good to be back. I've also changed ISP's, 'cause AOL sucks. My new e-mail address is; rkbjf@uswest.net Brad/Bard/4444 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:13:55 -0400 From: Beverly Subject: Re: (njc) Oprah list update I sent a nice little letter to Oprah.com and got not one, but two auto-responders thanking me. I'd never been to the Oprah site. It was fun, and in addition to E-mailing Oprah, I casted my vote in the "Poll of the Day." Bev ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:34:51 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: OTSFM, Oprah and Off Line for too long... Hi Everyone, We finally 86'd Netcom and hooked up with a new ISP. After not being able to connect for over two weeks, I'm now trying to read over 1000 posts... OTSFM - I didn't know they moved to Lincoln Square....I thought they were still on Wells. At any rate, I'll hang out with you Doug. What about XRT? Oprah- Sue, I'm just now getting back on line. I willl drop a line to Oprah now. If all of us mention how visits to the JMHP increased from 36,000 to 48,000 during the tour, we should be able to strike a chord. They are only interested in numbers (Ratings) right? Shouldn't that give them some indication? Jody (hoping to get back on track soon) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 22:36:02 EDT From: Marilune@aol.com Subject: It sure is hard to leave you... so we had our last rehearsal for "A Chorus Line" today. i absoulutely cannot express how wonderful a time i am having. performing is such an amazing high, really. it's my aquarius side, i suppose. people tell me that i sparkle on stage and i think it's true (at the risk of sounding too full of myself as teenagers often are). i feel at home on stage, odd as it may seem. but as paula cole says: i'm big and bright all over, not just on the stage. we leave for marin county on sunday morning. it'll be amazing as always. i'm there for six days (three shows a day! ay ay ay!) and there's one big show in Younteville on the 24th (which some jimdles may be attendind) and one big final show on the 25th (which miss kakki is attending). the day i leave for whoa mexico i've never really been so i don't really know. i'll be down there for four weeks, getting high and drunk, stepping on little children and running around with crazy mexicanos. ; ) you know, all that stuff i do. so i just want to say GOOD-BYE or Adios is a little more appropriate to all my JMDL friends. I will keep in touch (they have e-mail down there...remotely civilized) and will fill you on everything. Life in Mexico, Life in General, and Life Without Griffin (which is going quite well, actually and truly). I will miss you all heaps and loads. Now, as Joni says: BAILA MI RUMBA! - -mariana NP: Blue (Recording it for my trip) Was Playing: Foo Fighters, -The Colour and the Shape- (mum says i'm taking a break from all my cerebral music to listen to headbanging music. but i luv 'em anyway. plus i don't listen to that much headbanging music...just the foos and nirvana) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #259 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?