From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #254 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Monday, July 13 1998 Volume 03 : Number 254 The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Those kids in Canada ("Song for Sharon") [Michael Heath ] Re: corrwctive syndrome [Marsha ] Re: corrwctive syndrome [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Those kids in Canada ("Song for Sharon") [DKasc13293@aol.com] Re: corrwctive syndrome [Michael Heath ] Re: grammar and revising the English language [Bill Dollinger ] Re: Millennium (NJC) [briano@interisland.net (Odlum, Brian)] Re: corrwctive syndrome [Bill Dollinger ] Re: Lucinda Williams, NJC [Bill Dollinger ] Boom-Boom Nicolette (SJC) [Bounced Message ] Re: corrwctive syndrome [Michael Heath ] Re: JMDL Digest V3 #246 [Debra Kaufman (by way of Les] Wally [kbarnicle@ensr.com] How Do You Stop [Bounced Message ] Charles Richard Mitchell? [Steve Dulson ] Re: Lucinda Williams, NJC [Jerry Notaro ] RE: Those kids in Canada ("Song for Sharon") [Mary Pitassi ] Re: Mitchell, Baez et al ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Those kids in Canada ("Song for Sharon") [Michael Heath ] Re: Boom-Boom Nicolette ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Re: Blue HDCD ReMaster [briano@interisland.net (Odlum, Brian)] Re: Blue HDCD ReMaster [Jerry Notaro ] NJC Fwd: Ultimate Grammar Rules [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Blue HDCD ReMaster/Audiophilia ["Don Rowe" ] Joni on Vinyl [simon@icu.com] Court & Spark, Vinyl re-issue [simon@icu.com] Re: Blue HDCD ReMaster ["Kakki" ] Re: Blue HDCD ReMaster/Audiophilia (NJC) [LRFye@aol.com] Re: Court & Spark, Vinyl re-issue ["Kakki" ] Re: Audiophilia/Speaker Placement (NJC) ["Don Rowe" ] Calenders and such (NJC) [michael paz ] Blue HDCD ["Hollander, Frank" ] Attack of the Macs (NJC) [michael paz ] Welcome Back! [michael paz ] Tower Records Clearing Out Joni Cassettes [mann@chicagonet.net] Re: NJC your recommendations pahleeze [Heather ] NJC Shameless Self promotion ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Re: Blue HDCD ReMaster [Scott Price ] Bizarre Mingus packaging [Robert Holliston ] Re: Bizarre Mingus packaging (NJC) [Heather ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:48:49 -0700 From: Michael Heath Subject: Re: Those kids in Canada ("Song for Sharon") That was a repeat show( or at least segment ). I think the tribe is Mohawk. I don't think Joni means anything by the lines you mentioned from SFSharon: "Little Indian kids on a bridge up in Canada, they can balance and they can climb Like their fathers before them, they'll walk the girders of the Manhattan skyline." I think she's just painting an image and setting a context. She is entering Babylon on a personal quest for meaning and truth. She points out her Canadian roots by which she is viewing the New York skyline from the harbor. Past the Statue of Liberty, into the belly of the beast where she gets absorbed like all the others that came before her. Including those little Indian kids. cul Mary Pitassi wrote: > I caught a few minutes of a television program last night that piqued my > curiosity and ultimately, sent me scurrying into my office to my Joni > collection! The program ("Sixty Minutes"? something on at about the > same time?) included a feature on construction workers who labor on some > of the tallest buildings in New York. According to the show, a certain > Native American tribe is heavily represented among these workers, who > perform tasks at heights that would make most people shudder. The show > suggested that members of this tribe--can't remember its name--seem to > be blessed with both preternaturally good balance and the ability to > concentrate deeply, which is absolutely necessary to do this work > without getting spooked. Apparently, they have been employed in this > fashion for generations: they were instrumental in constructing the > Empire State Building. > > I'm extremely wary of any attempts to link ability to perform given > tasks to race (the balancing skills), or even, to a lesser extent, to > culture (which seemed to be implied in the show's comments on > concentration). Even so, I could resist dragging out my worn copy of > "Hejira." Sure enough, there were the lines that had never made sense > to me before: > > "Little Indian kids on a bridge up in Canada, they can balance and they > can climb > Like their fathers before them, they'll walk the girders of the > Manhattan skyline." > > Anyone know anything more about this, including what Joni may have > intended by these lines? And did anyone see the complete segment last > night? > > Curious, > > Mary. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:55:22 -0700 From: Michael Heath Subject: corrwctive syndrome Post what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:01:37 -0400 From: Marsha Subject: Re: corrwctive syndrome Michael Heath wrote: > > Post what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Gee, thanks, cul. Glad to know we have your permission! HAHAHA! MarshaMouth ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:05:14 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: corrwctive syndrome Cul, don't pull any of that Golden Dawn stuff here! ;) >Post what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:05:29 EDT From: DKasc13293@aol.com Subject: Re: Those kids in Canada ("Song for Sharon") No, actually there is the Native American tribe which indeed Joni is referring to. She's got some recollection of them. If you drive into NYC, especially at night, you come upon a somewhat magical skyline illuminated by points of light on top, which could be perceived as man made mountains and snow capped peaks of architecture. To some it's a fascination and draw, to others a dark forbodding jungle. Thank you Native Americans, Duane From the belly of the beast ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:07:44 -0700 From: Michael Heath Subject: Re: corrwctive syndrome Wasn't me...I was just sitting sipping my morning brew and reading your post when the room was filled with a bright light. Holding an arm up in front of my eyes and squinting, I could barely make out Our Lady of Belle Air holding her arms out to me and saying, "Tell them this, to heal their wounds of division..." And so I did. cul Marsha wrote: > Michael Heath wrote: > > > > Post what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. > > Gee, thanks, cul. Glad to know we have your permission! > HAHAHA! > > MarshaMouth ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:09:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: Re: grammar and revising the English language On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Thomas Ross wrote: > How about that! no 'njc' in the heading, but nobody complained! people > seem to do so only when they have a personal grouse against someone; > otherwise why bother, just scan and delete. > > TR Why bother? There are all kinds of people here, and not all jmdlers can take the time to read every message. Not all folks are interested in reading posts which don't contain news or opinion that directly relates to Joni. Some people just want to be up on all the latest news, some folks are more interested in sharing their feelings about the influence of joni's music or personal interpretation of lyrics. And some use the jmdl to hawk their wares through self-serving signature files that border on spamming. To each his own, but the NJC label has proven to be an effective way to help everyone receive the subject matter they when traffic grows heavy on the list. How is typing three letters into the subject line is too much of a "bother?" Bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:10:13 -0700 From: Michael Heath Subject: Re: Those kids in Canada ("Song for Sharon") I know the tribe exists...I think it is the Mohawks. DKasc13293@aol.com wrote: > No, actually there is the Native American tribe which indeed Joni is referring > to. She's got some recollection of them. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:13:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Subject: Re: NJC - Julie's party bracelets >In a message dated 98-07-13 09:57:17 EDT, TerryM2442@aol.com writes: > ><< > << Do you know where your bracelet is? >> >> > >What bracelet? I was there, didn't get a bracelet; just a name tag with a Joni >picture on it. How did I miss out on the bracelets? > >Paul I Oh no Paul! You didn't keep that nametag did you? It has even more power than the bracelet! Run, run as fast as you can to your computer and begin the opening lines to Edith and the Kingpin! Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:13:45 -0700 From: briano@interisland.net (Odlum, Brian) Subject: Re: Millennium (NJC) > By the way, the Year 2000 computer bug is very real, and does occur on January > 1, 2000, and has nothing to do with the change of millennium, or with Jesus. > > -Fred Of course not! Everyone knows that it celebrates Bill Gate's birthday. Duh! ;-) Brian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:11:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: Re: corrwctive syndrome On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Mark Domyancich wrote: Subject: Re: corrwctive syndrome ummmm, I believe you meant to type corrective syndrome. - -bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:17:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: Re: Lucinda Williams, NJC I want to thank Sherrie Good and others who have been raving about Lucinda. I picked up the cd the other day and I am very impressed by her songwriting and voice. On the way home from the record store, I was reading the lyrics. I usually don't get to worked up over lyrics until I hear them in the song, but I was captivated by the stories in her songs before I even popped the cd into the player. You can add my name to the list of satisfied customers ! bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:16:33 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Boom-Boom Nicolette (SJC) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:02:02 -0700 From: Catherine Turley A bit to add to the lore of Nicolette Sheridan vs. Joni at the Friday night WB tapings. (I might have posted this earlier, but I hesitated because the story is kind of pathetic and I did feel some pity for the woman. My moment of compassion, however, seems to have passed. I know--a lame and self-serving disclaimer.) I was seated behind the stage at the Friday taping, so I had a straight on view of NS, who was on the floor in the front row, directly in front of Joni--she was pretty hard to miss. I know other JMDLers were seated closer to N.S., so I e-mailed Kakki off list to see if she saw what I did. She didn't have the same view, but offered a tasteful summation of what I saw: > "Perhaps Joni had good cause to feel reluctant to > return to the stage after having to witness Nicolette not only chattering away, > but brazenly hanging on her boyfriend's boom-boom pachyderm during the first > set." Should there be any confusion on this topic, given the recent list debate on the finer points of boom-boom pachyderm, the distasteful summation is that while our beloved Joan was singing "Hejira," N.S. was openly rubbing her boyfriend's crotch, for all to see. Eeeeeeeuuuuuu! To quote my mother-in-law the therapist: "THAT is inappropriate behavior." To quote Conrad and Azeem: "The horror, the horror . . ." Catherine Still shuddering ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:15:57 -0700 From: Michael Heath Subject: Re: corrwctive syndrome Did you miss the joke, adding to my point? cul:) Bill Dollinger wrote: > On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Mark Domyancich wrote: > > Subject: Re: corrwctive syndrome > > ummmm, I believe you meant to type corrective syndrome. > > -bill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:11:39 -0600 From: Debra Kaufman (by way of Les Irvin ) Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V3 #246 Hey, I've really missed you guys. I haven't weighed in since the post-Joni concert reviews, which I really really liked, thank you all. I just read the post after Roy's death and can't help myself from responding. Thank you Simon for the black cowboy stuff, which I loved. The more we really know about history, such a long process, the better. There's no mistaking that Roy was a hero and that young children need heroes. But I have to say that Dale was my heroine just as much. Even though Joni talked about wanting to play Roy in her childhood games (the boys wanted her, as Dale, to "stay home and cook"), I happily played either Dale or sometimes Annie Oakley. I did not cook and stay home. I rode my bike Buttermilk (after Dale's horse) and rode along with the "men". Dale often went on the rides and "handled" the bad women, and she joked easily and was quick. She was the ONLY woman on t.v. in that era that was not a homemaker. Also, Songs of the West (several vols. on CD)--one vol. I have has Happy Trails and Cool Water and some other gems, some by Sons of the Pioneers. For those of you who didn't see my poem posted a year or so ago on Roy and Dale, I'll post it again. This is to Roy's memory, whether it's real or mythic: The Roy Rogers Show Dale was casual with a spatula, but when there was trouble she'd tear off her apron and ride flat out. She'd get down in the dirt and fight the bad woman fair. She and Roy sipped coffee afterwards, waving away the sheriff's thanks. At the end they sang, "Happy trails to you, until we meet again," sang it so sad, but smiling, as if they knew you were trapped in black and white with your parents who ate in gritty silence and returned to their separate rooms. They looked past your bitten nails, didn't mind that you couldn't finish a sentence, understood why you pinched your brother so hard. They looked deep into you and saw that white coal, the small glow of you you knew was good. They'd come back every Saturday so you had to keep believing in their faces, honest as the desert sky; you'd have to remember how their voices singing braided together like good, strong rope. Hope to keep better in touch with you all. Best, Debra &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& "Ring the bells that still can ring. Forget your perfect offering. There is a crack, a crack in everything: that's how the light gets in." Leonard Cohen ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:38:59 EDT From: kbarnicle@ensr.com Subject: Wally Wally's Back! All is right with the world! Katie from the Cape ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:52:39 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: How Do You Stop Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:04:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Medric Faulkner While shopping in the local mall yesterday I heard the familiar sound of How Do You Stop coming from The Gap. I went in to listen while I shopped and found that they were playing the entire Indigo CD. While checking out I asked the manager about it and found that he was a second generation fan in that his parents had turned him on to Joni's music. This launched us into a long conversation about my attending the concert in Anaheim. You find Joni friends in the strangest places "like a broadside accident." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:56:55 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Charles Richard Mitchell? JamieJake wrote from London: >I...sign myself James Richard Mitchell to disguise the fact that we're a >bunch >of actors representing each other. Fully aware that Richard is >Chuck's middle >name which is why I'm doing it. Really? I hadn't heard this before. It would certainly help nail down the "who is Richard?" debate. Has **anyone** heard what Chuck is doing these days? ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:57:44 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Lucinda Williams, NJC There is a full column praising Lucinda's new cd in the St. Petersburg Times today. Also a rave in Details magazine this month. Lucinda gets her due! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:59:43 -0500 From: Mary Pitassi Subject: RE: Those kids in Canada ("Song for Sharon") To clarify: when I asked what Joni intended by the lines I quoted, I wasn't necessarily implying that she meant anything negative. However, since I had never before heard of the work of the tribe highlighted, I *was* curious, among other things, about whether she ever specified that she was referring directly to it in the song I like a combination of what Michael and Duane have suggested. I think Joni was painting an image and was quite conscious, as she continued her personal hejira, that many before her had entered New York City as "foreigners." However, I also like to think that she giving an explicit nod to the Native American workers, who had also grown up in Canada, and of whose crucial contribution to creating the skyline she was aware. (SO TAKE THAT, GRAMMAR POLICE!!! ;-) Mary. By the way, Michael: you say that Joni didn't "mean" anything by the lines, but then go on to describe very nicely what her use of this particular imagery could have meant! Which was exactly the kind of explanation I hoped to elicit by the question. . . . "Meaning" to get back to work now. . . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:12:30 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Boom-Boom Nicolette (SJC) In a message dated 7/13/98 12:21:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << N.S. was openly rubbing her boyfriend's crotch, for all to see. Eeeeeeeuuuuuu! To quote my mother-in-law the therapist: "THAT is inappropriate behavior." To quote Conrad and Azeem: "The horror, the horror . . ." >> ..and to quote my teeny bopper kid, "OhmaGod, that is, like, SO gross. I mean like, totally GROSS." Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:13:49 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Charles Richard Mitchell? In a message dated 7/13/98 12:59:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, steve@psitech.com writes: << Has **anyone** heard what Chuck is doing these days? >> I can do a search in my local paper- he's from my hometown (Detroit) but I have no idea if he's still around. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:16:25 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Charles Richard Mitchell? Duh! I just realized Chuck is just a nickname for Charles! Whoops! At 9:56 AM -0700 7/13/98, Steve Dulson wrote: >JamieJake wrote from London: > >>I...sign myself James Richard Mitchell to disguise the fact that we're a >>bunch >of actors representing each other. Fully aware that Richard is >>Chuck's middle >name which is why I'm doing it. > >Really? I hadn't heard this before. It would certainly help nail down >the "who is Richard?" debate. > >Has **anyone** heard what Chuck is doing these days? > > >############################################################## >Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com >"The Tinker's Own" >http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html >"Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" >http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ > ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:30:40 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Mitchell, Baez et al Marsha writes ... >Except that I wonder what Joni would think of being thrown >in with that packet of "pop"dom? > "Pop" has always been a schizophrenic category in the music industry ... today putting together such disparate styles as Fleetwood Mac, The Spice Girls, Garth Brooks and Puff Daddy (with Jimmie Page, or all people). I'm sure there was a time when Joni showed up on the "pop" lists with The Monkees, The Who (or should it be "The Whom"? I can never tell on this list!), Creedence Clearwater Revival, Donovan and others. But I don't think Joni would really miind, anymore than to engender a bit of confusion similar to what she's long felt about being labelled a "folk singer." Just my two cents ... Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:27:13 -0700 From: Michael Heath Subject: Re: Those kids in Canada ("Song for Sharon") Mary Pitassi wrote: > I like a combination of what Michael and Duane have suggested. I think > Joni was painting an image and was quite conscious, as she continued her > personal hejira, that many before her had entered New York City as > "foreigners."By the way, Michael: you say that Joni didn't "mean" > anything by the > lines, but then go on to describe very nicely what her use of this > particular imagery could have meant! Which was exactly the kind of > explanation I hoped to elicit by the question. > Glad to be of some service. I agree that she wasn't really being negative and indeed was giving that nod. There's a strange sort of existential pain in that song, like she needs to convince herself that the path she is on is right for her, even though it requires her to forsake the normal sense of hearth & home. The whole song to me reveals Joni coming to terms with herself; "well, I do accept the changes, at least better than I used to do..." cul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:34:48 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Boom Boom Nicollete 4 goat dancing? >Date: 13 Jul 1998 16:44:26 -0000 >From: MAILER-DAEMON@hotmail.com >To: dgrowe@hotmail.com From: "Don Rowe" >To: joni@smoe.com >Subject: Re: Boom-Boom Nicolette 4 goat dancing (SJC) > >>Should there be any confusion on this topic, given the recent list >>debate on the finer points of boom-boom pachyderm, the distasteful >>summation is that while our beloved Joan was singing "Hejira," N.S. >was openly rubbing her boyfriend's crotch, for all to see. > >Hmmm ... "Hejira" as a goat dancing soundtrack ... fascinating! > >Raising my one Vulcan eyebrow ... > >D Rowe > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:45:39 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Re: Boom-Boom Nicolette At 10:16 AM 7/13/98 -0600, Catherine Turley wrote: >A bit to add to the lore of Nicolette Sheridan vs. Joni at the Friday >night WB tapings. I think the the only explanation is that Nicolette and date smuggled in a recording/microphone device---strategically hiding it. And as Joni moved around the stage, they had to repeatedly adjust it for maximum recording quality. (Suddenly the phrase: "And drooling for a taste of something smuggled in," takes on a new meaning...) This made me think of the variety of people who are Joni fans. Last year we talked about a newspaper article describing Donald Trump's second wife, ("what'shername," not Ivana,) The article went on to say that a maid of Trump's leaked that "what'shername was holed up in their Trump Tower penthouse feeling very depressed over the break up of their marriage and listening to Joni Mitchell over and over. -Julie, "Heatwaves on the runwayAs the wheels set downHe takes his baggage off the carousel He takes a taxi into townYellow schools of taxi fishesHe opens up his suitcase In the continental suiteAnd people twenty stories downColored currents in the street A helicopter lands on the Pan Am roofLike a dragonfly on a tombAnd business men in button downsPress into conference roomsBattalions of paper-minded males Talking commodities and salesWhile at home their paper wives And paper kidsPaper the walls to keep their gut reactions hid Yellow checkers for the kitchenClimbing ivy for the bath She is lost in House and GardensHe's caught up in Chief of Staff" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:47:56 -0700 From: briano@interisland.net (Odlum, Brian) Subject: Re: Blue HDCD ReMaster The limit of perception is the person doing the perceiving. Not everyone can hear the fidelity of 44.1 kHz, or the difference between 10/12/14/16/20/24 quantizing bits. Most people I know don't have a clue (nor care) why 44.1 kHz *is* the audio sampling rate standard, or what significance that has on the type of music one listens to when making comparisons. Even if one listens to a HDCD, even if one uses a stereo system that can reproduce the HDCD standard, even if the recorded music on the CD actually challenges the human hearing envelope of frequency/amplitude (a rare case), the weakest component in the system is *always* the listener. An interesting story. I used to work for a guy who was an "audiophile". He owned the largest most expensive home stereo system I have ever seen. He had an engineering background, and he was an expert with respect to the technology of sound recording and reproduction. He was very proud of his background/stereo system/CD collection and his ability to discriminate minute differences in fidelity. Often he would ask his house guests to listen to several different recordings of the same work, partially to judge the listening abilities of his company (sort of an ego thing) and also because he loved to educate (pontificate?) to folks about the differences, allowing him to show off his prowess (more of the ego thing). One day I became one of his guinea pigs. We listened to three different versions of Beethoven's 5th symphony, 4th movement. Since I used to play in a professional orchestra, I knew this work almost by heart. Only one of the recordings did any justice to Beethoven's score IMO. One of the recordings was horribly out of tune, full of audible errors, and so badly interpreted it was painful to listen to [no grammar police please]. It was this recording that my boss loved most however, because to his ears it had the best "sound". The recording that I liked the best, for the orchestra's brilliant technique and interpretation, was third on the boss's list. It was an older recording, originally mastered with analog technology and later digitally remastered, but not to high density standards. From that day forward my boss considered me to be an "audio imbecile", one who possesses impaired hearing ability. To human ears, the "improvement" of the HDCD standard (by itself) is not very important when one listens to Joni Mitchell recordings. Her music (generally speaking) comes nowhere close to challenging the envelope of the standard, especially early works like Blue. The frequency range and dynamic range of this work represent a small part of the hearing spectrum. Objectively, there is *some* difference, which audio analysis equipment can verify. Whether or not one can actually *hear* any difference is a COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE issue and is not resolvable by discussion. Personally, I would like to see more emphasis placed on MUSICAL than AUDIO perception/appreciation/education, but I know I'm living in the wrong age for that. The late empire is always strong on engineering and weak on art. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:04:22 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Blue HDCD ReMaster Odlum, Brian wrote: > Personally, I would like to see more emphasis placed on MUSICAL than AUDIO > perception/appreciation/education, but I know I'm living in the wrong age > for that. The late empire is always strong on engineering and weak on art. One of the reasons I like (as a published reviewer) the reviews in Stereo Review is that they comment and evaluate both the conent and the recording. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:15:39 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: NJC Fwd: Ultimate Grammar Rules Brian Gross wrote: > 6. Also, always avoid annoying alliteration. Loved the list, Brian. Just one problem: alliteration is the repetition of initial consonants, as in "perfectly plump plums" (a phrase which also contains an assonance, the repetition of internal vowel sounds). - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:51:35 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Blue HDCD ReMaster/Audiophilia Brian writes -- >Even if one listens to a HDCD, even if one uses a stereo system that can >reproduce the HDCD standard, even if the recorded music on the CD actually >challenges the human hearing envelope of frequency/amplitude (a rare case), >the weakest component in the system is *always* the listener. Agreed, hearing isn't one of our more refined senses. But the biggest *system* problem out there is speaker placement. Rule #1 with me has always been that "the sound of your system is inseparable from the room you put it in." In fact, any subtle advantages that one system has over another can be totally cancelled by incorrect speaker placement. So put the speakers in the right place, and you'll be surprised how much more and better things you'll hear! >An interesting story. I used to work for a guy who was an "audiophile". He owned the largest most expensive home stereo system I have ever seen. (SNIP) Personally, I would like to see more emphasis placed on MUSICAL than AUDIO perception/appreciation/education, but I know I'm living in the wrong age for that. The late empire is always strong on engineering and weak on art. > This really cuts to the bane of an "audiophile" existence as I see it, which is why I don't count myself as one. Because no matter how much you spend on a system, you still can't control the source material. Be that a lousy symphony conducted by a third-rate conductor, or a mike-happy engineer/producer hell bent to fill up all 64 tracks with ... something, great systems to me are just a magnifying glass with which to listen to *perfectly reproduced* faults. Not my idea of fun! So does that make me an early empire engineer? A late empire conneseur? A half-deaf devotee? Don Rowe > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:15:10 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Joni on Vinyl Jason Maloney writes > >I have recently seen "new" Vinyl copies of clasic JM albums in some >branches of HMV in the UK ... Ladies Of The Canyon and Blue were the >two I noticed, but there are apparently many more available. If you'd >like, I could look into the details of this. > Jason, thankx for pointing these out, i'm sure there are JMDL members who are interested. both of these are excellent sounding LP's. LOTC is especially 'sweet' there's also a recent 'Limited Edition' Vinyl re-issue of "COURT And SPARK" from DCC Compact Classics, the same company that previously issued the Gold CD Edition of C&S (o/p). the Alto Analogue re-issue of WTRF has been cancelled. FWIW: i was actually bemoaning the fact that Joni's 'recent' albums haven't been issued on vinyl. HITS, MISSES and TI. we'll have to wait and see about TTT, but i have my doubts. NRH was the last Joni album available on vinyl, and quantities were extremely limited. what's strange about this is that all of Neil Young's recent Reprise albums have been released as LP's. there's also a growning list of LP re-issues by WEA Germany. many dealers are carrying these. for the most part they have to be purchased on-line or from mail-order dealers since few retail stores carry vinyl on a regular basis. - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:15:17 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Court & Spark, Vinyl re-issue From: The TRACKING ANGLE Issue 14, Spring 1998 JONI MITCHELL Court and Spark no producer credit engineered by Henry Lewy DCC Compact Classics LPZ-2044 180 Gram Lp Mitchell's graceful melding of her folk music roots with Tom Scott's Southern California brand of light jazz yielded one of her finest, most enduring albums back in 1974. It wasn't without precedent, however. If you go back two years to 1972's FOR THE ROSES (Asylum SD 5057) you'll hear more guitars but you'll also find "Tommy" Scott's woodwind and reed accents, Bobby Nortkiff's string arrangements and Wilton Felder on bass. Find yourself an original thick Atlantic pressed LP -- it's got a white label -- and you'll be a happy camper. The later blue cloud label WEA pressing pales by comparison. I haven't heard the latest CD. On COURT And SPARK Mitchell ups the level of jazzy sophistication, downplaying the acoustic strumming and adding Joe Sample and Larry Carlton to the mix - along with Robby Robertson, Jose Feliciano and others. While the music has an increasingly breezy So-Cal feel, Mitchell's preoccupation with the chains of love versus the freedom of the road continue -- on the title tune, on "Help Me" and on "The Same Situation," where conflicted self doubt has her singing "I called out to be released/Caught in my struggle for higher achievement/And my search for love/That doesn't seem to cease." When the album was released there was a great deal of speculation about the subject of "Free Man In Paris." Was she writing about her agent/manager/label head David Geffen? Probably. The album ends on an uncharistically light note: a cover of Lambert, Hendricks and Ross' "Twisted" from their "THE HOTTEST GROUP IN JAZZ" (Columbia CS-8198 "6 Eye") with Cheech and Chong's backups. The song's a novelty track, but it pointed the way toward Mitchell's jazzier future. When you pay a premium price for a reissue you're entitled to premium packaging and DCC gives it to you here. This is an album worth cherishing and preserving -- it's stood the test of time -- and DCC's reproduction of the original gatefold LP is exquisite -- right down to the heavy stock and embossed cover of the original -- back when album covers were a true artform. As for Mitchell's artwork -- a wave or a penis -- or a penis waving? Or a couple embracing and looking like a penis -- who knows? Who cares. It's pretty. Aside from the obvious distortion in the bridge to "Car on a Hill" which is on the original pressing, and the Nautilus 1/2 speed mastered version as well and so is on the tape, the recording is superb with natural instrumental timbres and an intimate, rich sounding vocal. Lots of great acoustic instrumental color and full bodied percussives add up to an addictive listening experience -- one that doesn't pale after four years of listening. Therefore, an ideal LP for premium treatment. Another outstanding mastering job by the Hoffman/Gray team, a fine RTI pressing, and worth every penny of the admission charge. The Gold CD is nice too. A metallic sounding Elektra HDCD recently issued, doesn't make it at all. _________________________________________________________________________ From: STARART (c) 1979 Designed and edited by Debby Chesher ISBN 0-9690053-0-X, out of print. re: The Mountain Loves The Sea. 1971, water color, 10 1/2" x 14". "'The Mountain Loves The Sea', which became the album cover for COURT And SPARK, was done on my land in Vancover. It was done in a moment of whimsy. It's a metaphor for the way the waves met up with the mountain; the way they embraced one another." Joni Mitchell - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:18:40 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Blue HDCD ReMaster Great post, Brian. You wrote: > To human ears, the "improvement" of the HDCD standard (by itself) is not > very important when one listens to Joni Mitchell recordings. Her music > (generally speaking) comes nowhere close to challenging the envelope of the > standard, especially early works like Blue. The frequency range and dynamic > range of this work represent a small part of the hearing spectrum. This made me think of something I was discussing recently with another list member. Years ago I had DJRD on (god forbid) an 8-track tape and while I loved the album, my subjective feeling towards Paprika Plains was that it was rather odd and murky-sounding and I could rarely listen to it all the way through. Last year I got around to buying the HDCD version of DJRD and, on first listen, Paprika Plains shot up to the top of my list as a favorite Joni song and I could not get enough of listening to it. I wonder now, with what you have expressed above, if some of Joni's orchestral pieces would challenge that envelope and be significantly improved by the HDCD format? Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:16:22 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: Blue HDCD ReMaster/Audiophilia (NJC) Don wrote: > So put the speakers in the right place, and you'll be surprised how much more and better things you'll hear! Don, can you give some of the non-audiophiles on this list (like me) some speaker placement pointers? I have a pair of 8 ohm, 60 watt Technics that were given to me several years ago, and I think I'm the third person to own them ... My living room is approximately 11' x 14" and has four windows, two open doorways, and a staircase at one end. Presently I have the speakers placed in corners opposite each other, but pointing "past" each other, as opposed to "at" each other, if you catch my drift ... What's a better arrangement? Of course this won't help the sound of my CDs, as my computer speakers are fixed in the computer case ... but I have been listening to a lot of opera on the radio lately and I would certainly appreciate any improvements in speaker placement that you could suggest. Thanks! Lori in San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:34:56 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Court & Spark, Vinyl re-issue simon wrote: >Mitchell's graceful melding of her folk music roots with Tom Scott's Southern California brand of light jazz >yielded one of her finest, most enduring albums back in 1974. It wasn't without precedent, however. If >you go back two years to 1972's FOR THE ROSES (Asylum SD 5057) you'll hear >more guitars but you'll also find "Tommy" Scott's woodwind and reed accents, Bobby Nortkiff's string >arrangements and Wilton Felder on bass. Find yourself an original thick Atlantic pressed LP -- it's got a >white label -- and you'll be a happy camper. The later blue cloud label WEA pressing pales >by comparison. I haven't heard the latest CD. Oooo-eeeee! I've got TWO of the white-labeled FTR albums. My original got hideously scratched over the years and I recently replaced it with another (cost $2.50). The CD is very good, too, but does not have the same "aural impact" as the vinyl. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:57:05 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Audiophilia/Speaker Placement (NJC) Lori writes ... >Don, can you give some of the non-audiophiles on this list (like me) some speaker placement pointers? > Okay, nobody has the ideal room, so I always suggest the following. Imagine an equilateral triangle. The speakers should be as far apart from *each other* as you are *from* them. If you can see the entire front of each speaker when you sit in your typical listening position, you should be mostly okay. The closer you can get to this, the better they will sound. They should, if possible, sit about a foot away from the wall, a little less is okay and you could even move yours closer since the Technics you have are front-ported. Last, don't put them directly on the floor, buy widely available stands that will tip the speakers back a few degrees. Another couple of points. Connect the speakers with roughly the same length of wire, especially if one is much closer to your receiver than the other one. Otherwise the speaker on the short wire will produce more volume than the one on the long wire. Use 16-gauge all copper speaker wire, not the thin, cheap stuff that's half aluminium. That's it for now, hope it helps and happy listening! Don Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 17:44:51 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Calenders and such (NJC) Al Date wrote: "birthday rule of having to live one year to encounter your first birthday, they would've started with Year Zero for Christ's first year on earth." BUT AL- What about the nine months in the womb????? Also are you familiar with the Mayan calender?? These folks were my ancestors. I am told their calender was far morea accurate than the one we currently employ. Best, Michael NP-The office radio ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:40:05 -0700 From: "Hollander, Frank" Subject: Blue HDCD I ran out and bought this (and Clouds and Ladies of the Canyon with similar packaging) and am listening on cheap headphones on a cheap CD-ROM drive. I have avoided listening to Blue and the other early albums since the wave of HDCD reissues, having been spoiled and entranced by their quality, and I've expected the Reprise reissues to happen eventually. I'm not *yet* overwhelmed by the quality of Blue, but so far am convinced that I'm hearing things on "Carey" I've never heard before. I strongly suspect that I'd be very much *underwhelmed* if I could listen to the old Blue (original CD release) right now, since I'm used to better quality by now. But a good comparison will have to wait for later on a better system. For these types of reissues, the point is not HDCD or any other fancy new system. What makes for dramatic quality improvements is going back to a substantially better analog source tape, ideally the true master tapes. CD's from "catalog" releases in the 80's were typically made from mediocre "master" tapes. Some were better than others, so improvements in the modern reissues vary. Frank ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 18:08:47 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Attack of the Macs (NJC) Mark wrote: Those millions of computers will all be PCs! HA! HA! HA! Mark, avid Mac user" Mark I wish I would of said that. You be so wicked and evil, but I am glad that we are more than just brothers in Jonispirit. Thank God for real computers! Michael, Mac satisfied ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 18:36:46 +0000 From: michael paz Subject: Welcome Back! Dear Wally- So glad to see a post from you on the list. Glad you are getting better. Let me know if there is anything I can do for you or the page. Take Care. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:19:19 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Tower Records Clearing Out Joni Cassettes Hi All! Was at Tower Records today in Schaumburg, Illinois. They had ALOT of Joni CASSETTS on sale 3 for $10.00 or $3.33 each in the front of the store in a big bin along with other artists like James Taylor, Carly Simon, En Vogue Doobie Brothers, etc. So if anyone is looking for some Joni they don't have or extra cassettes to listen in their cars (like me!) go to Tower! I picked-up Hissing of Summer Lawns, Court & Spark, and Misles of Aisles for $10!! Also heard 2 Joni songs today in 2 different stores! This is so weird......I think she's definitly thought of more by the people putting together music. Heard HELP ME in the Dominick's Food Store and HISSING OF SUMMER LAWNS/CENTERPIECE in Bed, Bath & Beyond Store. And last week I heard another one of Joni's songs in a different grocery store.....it was definitly not a "hit" .....can't remember the name now......"what a strange, strange, boy"(?.).....was so odd to hear this older one that I don't think I EVER even heard on the radio being played in the tiny grocery store I was in. It was great tho....had to take some time out from my shopping to hum along! I've been reading most of the digests....but haven't been able to read every post. Someone was talking about they can't wait to see a video. Is there a new video I'm missing out on? Last one I got was the fantastic one that Sherri Goode sent out. Also, is someone selling pictures of Joni from her Tour or from the Warner Brothers tape night? Ones they took personally? Thought I read something about that. I WOULD LOVE ONE if someone was offering this. Please contact me so we can work something out. PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! Thanks! Laura O. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 19:56:18 -0400 From: Heather Subject: Re: NJC your recommendations pahleeze At 03:45 PM 7/12/98 -0500, you wrote: > What do you recommend listening to while: >1. Working out (for motivation?) 2. Walking (for duration and speed?) 3. >Dancing (for getting down?) 4. Cooking (for inspiration?) 5.Goat Dancing >for....well, you know? > -JulieZWebb, in the mood to go shopping for music > Well, for me it is classical music while cooking. Definitely Joni or Laura while drawing. Working out - well - I need pumped up music. Music videos are good (Robert Palmer, Rush, The Police, Eurythnics, etc). For walking .. Jazz or sometimes the JMDL Tape Trees. That's my .02 Heather (who quit her dang job and played tennis all day today :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:42:34 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: NJC Shameless Self promotion Look, who else can I tell but you guys? So here is the latest: The Newsweek issue/July 20th out this week with "Science Finds God" on the cover----has a feature on the Michelangelo "Pieta" in 3D project and it mentions us ("a Pittsburgh company designed it,") and our Virtuoso camera on page 68 and 69 under the Art section! Mama Mia! JulieZW ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:21:22 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Blue HDCD ReMaster At 01:18 PM 7/13/98 -0700, Kakki wrote: > I wonder if some of Joni's orchestral pieces would challenge that >envelope and be significantly improved by the HDCD format? The complex pieces with lots of musical and vocal layers are not the only ones which could benefit from this new format, IMO. Even the relatively simple arrangements from her earlier albums have much potential for sonic improvement, IF the original master sources are of good quality. For example, being able to hear the fingers moving across guitar strings, or being able to tell if she's using a pick or strumming with her fingertips, adds a new dimension to the songs. I think a lot of it is about opening up and trying to find new sounds. Imagining Joni as she plays the chords, hearing each breath between verses, picturing the other musicians in the studio....all these are easier to do if the sound quality is the best it can be. And, damn the neighbors, it's better LOUD! :-) Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:34:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Holliston Subject: Bizarre Mingus packaging Hi everyone, I just (finally) picked up Mingus on CD - I've taken good care of my vinyl copy but it *is* nineteen years old now, and has a few pops and scratches. There is no indication that it is an HDCD, but it sounds fine to me. However, the packaging is mighty poor! No lyrics are printed, and although Joni's written introduction, which lists the musicians who played on the unreleased takes, is included, no mention is made of the musicians who play on the actual recording. Needless to say, the paintings featuring Charles Mingus that grace the original album are nowhere to be found. Well, that's Warner Bros., I guess! One more reason to hang onto those old vinyl records ;-) All the best, Mac-happy Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 21:56:15 -0400 From: Heather Subject: Re: Bizarre Mingus packaging (NJC) At 06:34 PM 7/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >However, the packaging is mighty poor! No lyrics are printed, and although >Joni's written introduction, which lists the musicians who played on the >unreleased takes, is included, no mention is made of the musicians who play >on the actual recording. Needless to say, the paintings featuring Charles >Mingus that grace the original album are nowhere to be found. >Well, that's Warner Bros., I guess! >One more reason to hang onto those old vinyl records ;-) Roberto and all - I guess with the tiny CD packaging, they leave alot out. I keep all my LPs for reference. Good thing we have these old vinyl things, eh? I know that sometimes you need a magnifying glass to read the CD packaging! Heather > > ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #254 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?