From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #248 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Friday, July 10 1998 Volume 03 : Number 248 The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Many joni related topics [FredNow@aol.com] JT [FredNow@aol.com] grammar and revising the English language [evian ] Re: JM & Sam Shephard ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: What a wonderful Full Moon. [Skin Deep ] NJC - Ellen [Robert Holliston ] Joni-Reincarnation [Hassan Zubairi ] Re: JT [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Words/Who,Whom (NJC) ["Deb Messling" ] Re: Words/Who,Whom (NJC) ["Wong, Kai" ] Re: Words/Who,Whom (NJC) [Mark Domyancich ] day in the garden ["Wong, Kai" ] Don't Look Back--NJC [BH1248@aol.com] Hejira content but NJC [BH1248@aol.com] Re: JT (NJC) ["Don Rowe" ] "Debase As It Admires" -- more grammar (SJC) [kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant)] Re: Pachyderm [Michael Heath ] Re: A Day In The Garden (NJC, Donovan) ["Deb Messling" ] Re: NJC: The best thing for being sad ... [Jeremy Roberts ] Re: pachyderm. [Michael Heath ] Re: pachyderm II [Michael Heath ] NJC "Don't Look Back" [Steve Dulson ] Re: Mitchell, Baez, Collins [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Mitchell, Baez, Collins [Marsha ] Re: A Day In The Garden (NJC, Donovan) [LRFye@aol.com] Re: Many joni related topics [Marsha ] Re: pachyderm. [LRFye@aol.com] Re: Words/Who,Whom (NJC) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Mitchell, Baez, Collins ["Kakki" ] Joni reference on Regis & Kathi Lee [JRMCo1@aol.com] Just a minute, pal!! ["FRED WALZENFREE" ] Re: pachyderm. [kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant)] arm Bears (NJC) [simon@icu.com] NJC: Donovan [Les Irvin ] Joni on Letterman [simon@icu.com] Re: Joni reference on Regis & Kathi Lee [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: pachyderm. [LRFye@aol.com] Re: arm Bears (NJC) [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Help me out with Joni Tape [Gertus@aol.com] Janet & "The Beat of Black Wings" [simon@icu.com] Re: pachyderm. [TerryM2442@aol.com] Joni's birth stats [Jim Ochsenreiter ] Grammar Question ["Peter K Mann" ] Re: "Debase As It Admires" -- more grammar (SJC) ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: Grammar Question ["Patricia O'Connor" ] NJC Lucinda Williams "Car Williams on a Gravel Road" ["Hollander, Frank" ] Re: pachyderm II [Bounced Message ] This Month in Joni History - July [This Month in Joni History ] Disregard this Test post for Bounce ["Don Rowe" ] Today in Joni History - July 6 [Today in Joni History ] Today in Joni History - July 10 [Today in Joni History ] Today in Joni History - July 9 [Today in Joni History ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 03:14:38 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Many joni related topics In a message dated 7/8/98 2:04:38 AM, Marsha wrote: >Karen, Our Fred Simon is a brilliant pianist (with a record label) who >has recorded beautiful renditions of some of Joni's songs. Marsha, have I ever told you how unbelievably perceptive you are, and what impeccable taste you have? - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 03:37:00 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: JT As I may have mentioned before, I have accepted James Taylor as my personal savior, and worship regularly at his church; his music means as much to me as any music ever. That man is so fucking good it's unreal, and he just gets better and better. His recent album, Hourglass is one of his strongest; his singing and writing are as brilliant as ever, and he is still making music magic. I heard James and gang tonight at a big boomy sports arena complete with sports crowd (case in point: a fight broke out not far from us during You've Got a Friend ... go figure). And yet that's how great James is -- the music still came through and hit me where I live. Very super fine. A nice surprise was James' son (with Carly Simon), Ben, who joined the backup singers on a few numbers, started the second set with a very nice tune of his own, and later dueted with Dad on Dixie Chicken. Lots of fun, and I thought it really cool that James was helping to pave the way for his son, giving him a leg up in the business. It's funny to me that there isn't more mention and recognition of James on this list; when the Grammys were awarded (Hourglass won for Best Pop Album), there was no mention of it on the Joni site, nor here (except by me). I've always regarded Joni and James as queen and king of the singer/songwriters, and their music has always been inextricably linked for me. (By the way, I so love Joni's parts poking out of the texture on James' tune "Only One" on his 1986 album, That's Why I'm Here.) Anyway, James is the man, and I strongly urge all to catch him if you can. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 01:55:03 -0600 From: evian Subject: grammar and revising the English language Hi, I have been busy and have only skimmed the digest lately. Thus, I missed this whole who/whom thread, and don't really know what it is about. However, I just read the post about bad grammar being a result of poor education, unclear thinking, etc. I am currently working on my M.A. in English, and the one thing I have learned through my schooling and my teaching freshman English to first-year University students is that grammar is something that is NOT taught in any real fashion to students in high schools. This year, I had students who still didn't know what a verb was by the end of the term. Let me just say that all of the TA's rejoice when we can stop teaching grammar and move onto literature, since we cannot try to teach the rules of the English language in 2 weeks. Indeed, to be honest, even I do not know the proper uses of who/whom unless I am teaching that particular lesson -- it is something that just doesn't seem to want to stay in my head! Anyway, the point I want to make is that our conceptions of the English language are changing. Schools tend to be dropping literature programs at an alarming rate, and thus it is no wonder that we often do not know the "proper" rules of English. I have had students who I can honestly say that have never read a book outside of the classroom. Moreover, the schools are not teaching literature with any amount of emphasis -- usually, I find when I ask students about their high school experiences, they tell me that they read a book per term in their English classes. It is sad that they cannot read or write with great competence. However, even though I find that the humanities are SERIOUSLY lacking in schools, this does not mean that I believe that bad grammar is something totally horrid. The English language is evolving with the slow revision of the literary canon. Now we are slowly being exposed to different dialects and pop culture phrasing in literature, and this isn't neccessarily a bad thing. The great thing about literature is that it reflects personal experience, and if something is written with a particular grammatical ideosyncrasy, so what?? As long as the written word is coherent, and not structurally flawed, a little bad grammar is not a major point to fuss about. True, my red pen just itches to find mistakes as is/are, etc., but the who/whom mistake is something that I can sympatize with! My research interest is in Aboriginal life writing, and since so much of Aboriginal literature is steeped in oral tradition, as well as in another language, "proper" English grammar does not apply. Indeed, as many people discover, the English language is slowly being appropriated to convey the experiences of others who previously were not able to do so with the constructs of the language. For anyone interested in this topic of the revision of the English language, especially from a feminist standpoint, I can recommend a few good books. There, my rambling is done! Evian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 04:39:27 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: JM & Sam Shephard JM and Sam Shepard were both on the Rolling Thunder Revue. He wrote glowingly but briefly of her performances in the Rolling Thunder Logbook. Julie B. said this about Sam Shephard: > Just to interject some Joni Content, I think Sam could be "Coyote." Of > course, he probably never had contact with Joni, but I just thought I'd > throw that in... - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** "I am the egg man. I am the Coyote." John Lennon NOT! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 03:21:38 -0700 From: Skin Deep Subject: Re: What a wonderful Full Moon. I had the pleasure to be at the filming on May 30th but did not have a seat assign to me as I arrived early. I was able to talk to Joni Mitchell and Don Freed and they told the stage manager to see that I sit were Fred Walzenfree was to sit as he was not going to show up. Dose anyone know who Mr. Waltzenfree is? Thanks, Fred for now. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 03:44:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Holliston Subject: NJC - Ellen Hi, everyone! I've been watching this great concert documentary on Bravo and just wanted to ask: Any other Ellen MacIlwaine fans out there (I believe she once opened for Joni, way back in the early 1970s)? I think Ellen's just amazing!! Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:45:02 +-100 From: Hassan Zubairi Subject: Joni-Reincarnation Dear Gang, On a video I have of Joni talking to Tracey Macleod (Britain's dour feminist art critic/reveiwer/media person in general) Joni said that once a Sikh yogi came up to her in a restaurant in New York and said 'Oh, I must tell you your past lives, they're sticking out of you all over the place.' She said, 'Oh, no, you're going to tell me I was Cleopatra, because everyone was Cleopatra at least once in their lives.'He said, 'No, this was her first incarnation as a woman and previously she was a bird, an English Gent', and the most significant thing was (and he said this with considerable distaste) 'an Arab rug merchant' - and this was the one she approved of: 'that's true,'she said,'because I could sit all day with a samovar of coffee wheeling and dealing and feeling fabric' (laughs). Whether she believes in reincarnation or not, it was quite appropriate that she should be an english gent and a bird. She sometimes takes her tunings from the sound of birdsong and the atmosphere. It's a great interview - around the time of TI when she came to London to do her private media concert. Nov '94 at a guess. Also on the grammar thing, I hope that everyone remembers that Joni doesn't always stick to the rules of grammar in her work: 'Does your smiles covert complicity, debase as it admires?' We know what it means, but is it correct? Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!!!! JamieJake The weekends drive me mad. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:01:47 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: JT In a message dated 7/10/98 3:39:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, FredNow@aol.com writes: << Anyway, James is the man, and I strongly urge all to catch him if you can. >> Fred, You are not alone! James is my man too- I've been a huge fan of his ever since, well, ever since. I get this gnawing feeling that he won't be fully appreciated till he's gone. To me, he is the master American story teller/songwriter; the Mark Twain of our generation. His guitar work is brilliant. The seemingly simplicity of it, along with his melodies, betrays it's complexity (try playing Secret O' Life). I, too, am surprised to have seen little written about him here. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:24:51 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: Words/Who,Whom (NJC) Calvin Trillin said: "As far as I'm concerned, "whom" is a word that was invented to make everyone sound like a butler." Deb Messling "Without music, life would be an error." --Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:30:19 -0400 From: "Wong, Kai" Subject: Re: Words/Who,Whom (NJC) From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Not always. What about joni fans from around the world where English is not the first language? Is this list only for English majors? Kai ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:08:17 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Words/Who,Whom (NJC) It's mostly the adults who give the younguns a hard time. Kai wrote: >Not always. What about joni fans from around the world where English is >not the first language? Is this list only for English majors? > >Kai ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:12:30 -0400 From: "Wong, Kai" Subject: day in the garden From adayinthegarden website. This drives me crazy, why do they insist on calling joni the most influential FEMALE recording artist, nobody ever calls dylan the most influential male artist. Does this imply that female artists are inherently inferior? Kai ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:18:14 EDT From: BH1248@aol.com Subject: Don't Look Back--NJC Re: the film "Don't Look Back" dir. by Pennebaker << Anyone else seen it? >> Julius, Yes. Some interesting concert footage and a fantastic ending. I strongly recommend "Bob Roberts" as a follow-up film to whomever/whoever (I'm so confused!) is a Tim Roberts fan and wants to see how he borrows from Pennebaker. Bob NP: Grateful Dead "The Arista Years" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:20:43 EDT From: BH1248@aol.com Subject: Hejira content but NJC In the final scene of the recent Steven Soderbergh film "Out of Sight", Samuel Jackson has a cameo as a character named "Hejira" and he explains the origin to the Clooney character. A nice "near-Joni" moment. The film is above average but not great. Bob NP: still Grateful Dead ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 06:23:29 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: JT (NJC) You are definitely not alone. Caught his recent St. Louis show at what I like to call "Paprika Plains" aka Riverport Amphitheatre, an endless sprawling outdoor venue with foamcore acoustics. Still loved every bit of it. I'm in total agreement on "Hourglass" and only hope it doesn't take him quite so long to put out another fantastic album! By way of sharing, I was fortunate enough to hear JT play the Fox Theatre (a 3000 seat restored 1920's movie palace, very much like Norma Desmond's house in Sunset Boulevard) for the "Never Die Young" tour. He was touring with Lee Sklar, long-time bass player ... and James walks out on stage to enthusiastic applause -- but when LEE showed up the place went nuts! It was so funny! So James looks at Lee, then back out at the crowd and quips, "Oh, so you know this guy!" Then he begins to take in the elaborate surroundings in the Fox and says, "This sure is a nice theatre you've got here ... kinda reminds me of my living room!" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 98 01:25:45 GMT From: kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant) Subject: "Debase As It Admires" -- more grammar (SJC) Hey JamieJake, re: 'Does your smiles covert complicity, debase as it admires?' That line (one of Joni's truly great ones, and one of my favorites) reads just FINE to me. The only thing wrong with it that I see is that *you* left out an apostrophe when you typed it (should be "smile's covert complicity") :-) Let's rephrase for a second: "Does the hidden guilt in your smile disparage WHILE it admires" (at the same time that) or possbily "LIKE it admires" (in the same way that). If she's using "as" in the sense of "WHILE" I see nothing wrong gramatically. And if she's using it in the sense of "LIKE" its clearly correct. (Remember the grammatical debate from the Winston cigarette commercial many years ago. The commercial went: "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should" and academia clamored that it should be "Winston tastes good AS a cigarette should" -- which fueled the company's next ad campaign: "What do you want, good grammar or good taste.") So I honestly don't see any flawed grammar here. -Kenny On 7/10/98 8:45AM, Hassan Zubairi wrote: Also on the grammar thing, I hope that everyone remembers that Joni doesn't always stick to the rules of grammar in her work: 'Does your smiles covert complicity, debase as it admires?' We know what it means, but is it correct? Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!!!! JamieJake ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:10:24 -0700 From: Michael Heath Subject: Re: Pachyderm Elephantine. cul TerryM2442@aol.com wrote: > Did we figure out what this word meant? My hubby claims it's either an > elephant or someone with thick skin. > > Terry, feeding on Hejira ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:37:46 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: A Day In The Garden (NJC, Donovan) Guilty pleasure time. How much flak will I catch for admitting I'm looking forward to Donovan? He defined my summer-camp days. > Dylan spends a lot of time humorously dissing Donovan > throughout the film Deb Messling "Without music, life would be an error." --Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:29:37 +0100 (BST) From: Jeremy Roberts Subject: Re: pachyderm. Re: Pachyderm: Yes ... pachyderms are the group of thick-skinned mammals - rhinos etc - so clearly the reference is to thick-skinned human males ... Cheers, Jeremy. - -- Jeremy Roberts : Running RISC-OS with an Acorn StrongArm Risc-PC in a Wintel-free Zone - you can help: Check Convergence International at http://www.convergence.eu.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:36:28 +0100 (BST) From: Jeremy Roberts Subject: Re: NJC: The best thing for being sad ... > Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 01:00:55 +0000 > From: Kate Tarasenko > Subject: NJC: The best thing for being sad... > > "The best thing for being sad," replied Merlyn, > beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something. > That is the only thing that never fails. > You may grow old and trembling in your anatomies, > you may lie awake at night listening to > the disorder of your veins, > you may miss your only love, > you may see the world about you devastated by evil lunatics, > or know your honor trampled in the sewers of baser minds. > There is only one thing for it, then -- to learn. > Learn why the world wags and what wags it. > That is the only thing which > the mind can never exhaust, never alienate, > never be tortured by, > never fear or distrust, > and never dream of regretting." > > - -- T.H. White Oh yes! - thank you for that: isn't it superb?? Is it from 'The Once and Future King'?? Jeremy. - -- Jeremy Roberts : Running RISC-OS with an Acorn StrongArm Risc-PC in a Wintel-free Zone - you can help: Check Convergence International at http://www.convergence.eu.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:58:57 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Mitchell, Baez, Collins A friend of mine told me that JM and Joan Baez do not get along--that they may hate one another. I was surprised to hear this and wondered why that would be true? What could have happened to have caused a falling out? It also got me thinking about Judy Collins and JM, too. Do they get along? Did they have a fallout? Are all three on speaking terms? Are they friends? Anyone have any clue? Howard Motyl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:03:40 -0700 From: Michael Heath Subject: Re: pachyderm. hangin on your boom boom pachyderm...attracted to your sexual prowess (read: big dick) there i said it cul Jeremy Roberts wrote: > Re: Pachyderm: > > Yes ... pachyderms are the group of thick-skinned mammals - rhinos etc - so > clearly the reference is to thick-skinned human males ... > > Cheers, > > Jeremy. > > -- > Jeremy Roberts : Running RISC-OS with an Acorn StrongArm Risc-PC > in a Wintel-free Zone - you can help: > Check Convergence International at http://www.convergence.eu.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:05:23 -0700 From: Michael Heath Subject: Re: pachyderm II I ahould have also said: elephants trunk swinging back and forth ( you get the image)...its jooni at her most earthy humor. Jeremy Roberts wrote: > Re: Pachyderm: > > Yes ... pachyderms are the group of thick-skinned mammals - rhinos etc - so > clearly the reference is to thick-skinned human males ... > > Cheers, > > Jeremy. > > -- > Jeremy Roberts : Running RISC-OS with an Acorn StrongArm Risc-PC > in a Wintel-free Zone - you can help: > Check Convergence International at http://www.convergence.eu.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:12:28 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: NJC "Don't Look Back" Julius asked: >Anyone else seen it? One of my faves! ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:25:15 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Mitchell, Baez, Collins When Joni sang on Joan Baez's "Dida," I figured they got along ever since. At 9:58 AM -0500 7/10/98, Howard Motyl wrote: >A friend of mine told me that JM and Joan Baez do not get along--that >they may hate one another. I was surprised to hear this and wondered >why that would be true? What could have happened to have caused a >falling out? > >It also got me thinking about Judy Collins and JM, too. Do they get >along? Did they have a fallout? > >Are all three on speaking terms? Are they friends? Anyone have any >clue? > >Howard Motyl ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:25:41 -0400 From: Marsha Subject: Re: Mitchell, Baez, Collins Howard Motyl wrote: > > It also got me thinking about Judy Collins and JM, too. Do they get > along? Did they have a fallout? > > Are all three on speaking terms? Are they friends? Anyone have any > clue? I have it from a very good source, yes I do, that Joni ADORES Judy. Of that Baez woman, I do not know. Marsha, humming De Da ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:43:38 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: A Day In The Garden (NJC, Donovan) Deb wrote: > Guilty pleasure time. How much flak will I catch for admitting I'm looking forward to Donovan? He defined my summer-camp days. I remarked to a friend of mine last night (who will be traveling from Texas with me to attend the concert) that I thought the promoters were considerate in having Donovan begin his set at 11 ... just in time for certain other "guilty pleasures" to kick in ... Lori in San Antonio, musing about cow patties and general mellow yellowness in rural New York ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:41:37 -0400 From: Marsha Subject: Re: Many joni related topics FredNow@aol.com wrote: > Marsha, have I ever told you how unbelievably perceptive you are, and what > impeccable taste you have? I figured since I was stiffing you on $5,000.00, the least I could do is throw that out. I am gathering with some Ginophiles (Gino Vannelli fans) tomorrow in Nashvegas and am gearing up for one of the most wonderful live performance seasons I have ever experienced with Joni and Gino both releasing new works and touring... Marsha, REALLY wanting to get back to the garden, too NP: Fred Simon's "Songs of My Youth" with renditions of Joni's "Both Sides Now", "For Free", and "Michael From Mountains" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:51:48 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: pachyderm. Cul actually said: >hangin on your boom boom pachyderm...attracted to your sexual prowess (read: big dick) And for the 21 years I've been listening to the song, that's exactly what I thought Joni was saying. The elephantine reference is blatantly obvious -- and brilliant. Lori in San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:02:38 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Words/Who,Whom (NJC) In a message dated 98-07-10 08:32:44 EDT, kwong@bev.etn.com writes: << From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Not always. What about joni fans from around the world where English is not the first language? Is this list only for English majors? Kai >> I think this is getting a bit too nitpicky. Of couse, I understand people speak other languages, but those languages have grammar rules, too. I would hope your grammar in your native tongue is excellent. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:59:16 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Mitchell, Baez, Collins > I have it from a very good source, yes I do, that Joni ADORES > Judy. Of that Baez woman, I do not know. Marsha, for colin's sake, one must also mention that Joni ADORES Carly, too, yes she does! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:14:00 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Joni reference on Regis & Kathi Lee Cathy Lee Crosby is singing "Chelsea Morning" right now on "Regis and Kathi Lee Live". The first verse anyway. Regis asked her what she would name the next child she was gonna have as a kind of joke. She said she had wanted to name one "Chelsea" but that the president had beaten her to it. She told the story about Joni then broke out into her warbling soprano take on the song. Good for a rare morning giggle. Ah, the trivial joys of working at home. And later there's Judge Judy! - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:27:38 +0000 From: "FRED WALZENFREE" Subject: Just a minute, pal!! Well, I'm Fred Walzenfree, and now I know why I was turned away at the door! The question is, does anybody know who Skin Deep is? And where he lives? We have something to discuss. > I had the pleasure to be at the filming on May 30th but did not have a > seat assign to me as I arrived early. I was able to talk to Joni > Mitchell and Don Freed and they told the stage manager to see that I sit > were Fred Walzenfree was to sit as he was not going to show up. Dose > anyone know who Mr. Waltzenfree is? Fred Walzenfree ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 98 04:16:37 GMT From: kg@ibm.net (Kenny Grant) Subject: Re: pachyderm. Well for all these years I always thought she was referring to a well-defined chest. Never looked up the word, but since this thread got started I now have the true definition. I guess chest made sense to me cause it's something you can "hang on" to (ok, ok, there are OTHER things you can hang onto as well.) But whenever I heard her sing "hangin' on your boom boom pachyderm" I pictured the hanging taking place using both arms... Am I the only one who thought she was referring to a guy's chest? -Kenny On 7/10/98 11:51AM, in message <8f202cba.35a63895@aol.com>, LRFye@aol.com wrote: Cul actually said: >hangin on your boom boom pachyderm...attracted to your sexual prowess (read: big dick) And for the 21 years I've been listening to the song, that's exactly what I thought Joni was saying. The elephantine reference is blatantly obvious -- and brilliant. Lori in San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:29:32 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: arm Bears (NJC) kb420@webtv.net writes ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >What's all this about Joni's right to bare arms? >Personally speaking, she can bare her arms, legs >and any other part she likes for me :) > >What? Ohhhhh, that's different! >Nevermind. >Emiy Litella >__________________________________________________________________________ personally, i believe in the right to arm Bears! - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:28:03 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: NJC: Donovan At 08:37 AM 7/10/98 +0000, Deb Messling wrote: >Guilty pleasure time. How much flak will I catch for admitting I'm >looking forward to Donovan? He defined my summer-camp days. Deb - I'm with you! I'll come out as a Donovan fan, too. "Open Road" remains a great, great album that has withstood the test of time. Les - thinking maybe that he just penned a grammatically incorrect sentence ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:29:49 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Joni on Letterman Mark 'n Sue asked ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >>Hi, Does anyone know when last night's Letterman appearance >> was originally aired? >> Thank you, >> Mark, > >Mel and Dave referenced the show as being a day before the last >presidential election. > >Sue Cameron (Suze) >__________________________________________________________________________ nov. 4, 1996 - ------- simon - ------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:41:44 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni reference on Regis & Kathi Lee I wrote: << Cathy Lee Crosby is singing "Chelsea Morning" right now on "Regis and Kathi Lee Live". The first verse anyway.>> Ahem. That should have been "Kathie Lee Gifford". My apologies to her legion of fans. ;-) They had comedian Chris Rock on, he's one of the guys in the new "Lethal Weapon" movie along with Mel Gibson and Danny Glover. Man, you should have heard Rock pumping sunshine up Regis's bum, telling him he was better than Letterman and Leno. Kept a straight face while doing so, too. Yeah, right. Time to turn off the tube and start spinning some tunes. _Hits_ will hit the spot. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:43:42 EDT From: LRFye@aol.com Subject: Re: pachyderm. Kenny asked: > Am I the only one who thought she was referring to a guy's chest? My guess on that would be: yes. "Boom boom pachyderm." In my (nasty?) mind that always equalled "shwinging dick." Lori in San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:07:49 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: arm Bears (NJC) You must have seen the shirt I have! > >personally, i believe in the right to arm Bears! > > >------- > simon >------- ____________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua/ | |__________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:16:02 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: Help me out with Joni Tape From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Help me out with Joni tape Okay list, your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to h.elp me plan a mix tape of Joni for a good friend and fabulous guitar player. I have given him "Night Ride Home" and "Hissing of Summer Lawns" ... and I'm going to put together a 90-minute mix tape of "Essential Joni". I'm thinking a career-spanning collage from STAS through Turbulent Indigo (minus the stuff he's already got). I'm only imposing two conditions, and here they are: 1. No "hits", or "standards" if you prefer 2. In the interest of quantity, I'm going to try and keep most selections under the 7:00 mark, if possible. Don, I have just yesterday completed a tape of this nature myself, which I am calling "a history of Joni Mitchell" and giving to friends. I decided to put 2 tracks from each album on a 120 min tape. This proved to be impossible so I had to leave ot tracks from my 3 least favourite albums. One track is over 7 minutes long and 3 are from HOSL and NRH. If you leave these off you may manage on a 90 min tape! Here's my selection:- Marcie, Nathan La Franeer Roses Blue, Gallery Morning Morgantown, For Free All I Want, A Case of You For the Roses, Woman of Heart and Mind Free Man in Paris, Same Situation Cactus Tree, Rainy Night House (Miles of Aisles versions) Scarlet Conquering, Harry's House Amelia, Song for Sharon(8.30) Cotton Avenue, Talk to Me Dry Cleaner from Des Moines In France they Kiss on Main Street, Edith and the Kingpin(S+L) Two Grey Rooms Turbulent Indigo, Borderline Left out due to lack of space - Chinese Cafe, Beat of Black Wings, Three Great Stimulants Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:18:45 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: Janet & "The Beat of Black Wings" Michael Yarbrough writes ... >__________________________________________________________________________ >Saw Janet Jackson's tour tonight (she's a much better entertainer >than I expected) and had a great JC moment during, of course, >"Got 'Til It's Gone." They flashed Joni's Isle of Wight performance >on the screen and I screamed my approval and found, to my surprise, >that I was not alone. There were significant screams from around the >amphitheater. Go Joni! > >The screams repeated after the part where Q-Tip says >"Joni Mitchell never lies." Then Janet led the entire crowd in a BYT >sing-along. Never thought I'd hear 60,000 people, mostly under 30, sing >that song together. >__________________________________________________________________________ coincidence? or what? the following was sitting in my Email 'out' box for reposting ... From: VIBE Magazine ~ november 1997 JANET'S BACK Miss Jackson talks about the pleasure in pain-and vice versa. By Danyel Smith > > >What was it like working with Q-Tip? Do you like his voice? > > I love his voice. I know René is probably sick of me saying God, > I love Tip so much. He was real quick in the studio. > >So you, Tip, and Joni Mitchell- > > I spoke to Joni over the phone and told her we used her sample. > Everyone kept saying don't even bother. I called her up myself, > told her how much of a fan I was and how my brother Randy introduced > me to her work. And she said we could use it! I was stoked. > >What's your favorite Joni Mitchell song? > > "Beat of Black Wings." I love it. > As a matter of fact, JONI CALLED and ASKED ME to be on her tribute album. > >So you did that one-the "Wings" song? How did it work out? > > I like it a lot. I just hope she does. You just don't touch greatness. > It's like, Leave it there because you can't go any place with it. For > her to ask me was such an honor. > > > >full article: BTW: Janet didn't just 'use' a sample from BYT, she fully acknowledged Joni and gave her credit as Co-Author. ___________________________________________________________________________ "GOT 'TIL IT'S GONE", featuring Q-Tip & Joni Mitchell written by: Janet Jackson, James Harris III, Rene Elizondo, Joni Mitchell and Kamaal Ibn Fareed Featuring samples from the Joni Mitchell recording "Big Yellow Taxi" Courtesy of Warner Bros Records, Inc. By Arrangement with Warner Special Products, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Used By Permission ___________________________________________________________________________ some performers have had to hire lawyers, file suit and go to court to collect royalties due for the use of their music. "Joni Mitchell never lies" and Janet Jackson 'Does The Right Thing!' - ------- simon - ------- * Remember, if you don't stand for something ... you'll go for anything. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:26:32 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: pachyderm. In a message dated 7/10/98 12:20:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kg@ibm.net writes: << But whenever I heard her sing "hangin' on your boom boom pachyderm" I pictured the hanging taking place using both arms... >> Now that I realize what Joni must be referring to, this is very funny. Terry ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jul 98 10:16:54 -0800 From: Jim Ochsenreiter Subject: Joni's birth stats Hello all, I am wondering if anyone has the specifics of Joni's birth, that's date, extact time and location? I am interested in looking at her natal chart to see what aspects have resulted in such an awesome human. you can private me or post the info to the list. or, has anyone ever seen her chart somewhere? i have not been able to locate one. Thanks in advance. jim ochsenreiter jim@rucker.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 98 13:16:05 PDT From: "Peter K Mann" Subject: Grammar Question Well, since this list has been referring to grammar lately, I thought I'd try to take advantage of the wealth of knowledge that is evidently out there. I'm wondering if someone could answer this question for me (please e-mail me privately): Would you say, 1) I asked them if it were their desire to get married. OR 2) I asked them if it was their desire to get married. My sister is a translator for the government, and called to ask me. Peter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:42:14 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: "Debase As It Admires" -- more grammar (SJC) >And if she's using it in the sense of "LIKE" its clearly correct. As in, "Does your similes covert complicity..." POC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:37:47 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Words/Who,Whom (NJC) In a message dated 7/10/98 12:07:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, IVPAUL42@aol.com writes: << I would hope your grammar in your native tongue is excellent. >> Hmmm...did you read my earlier post on the various reasons why some would have great difficulty with proper grammer? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:51:36 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE:JC Mitchell, Baez /NJC Grammar You people forgive me for always quoting Joni without mentioning the source, but I distinctly remember an interview where Joni said that Baez was very competitive and resented Joni's rise to fame very much back in the late 60's. She said this probably in the DED days, but I'm not sure. As to the grammar thread, I agree that mistakes are irrelevant if they don't interfere with communication. It's the purpose and the audience that define what one's correction standards should be. My GMAT students can't possibly get a high score if they don't handle these who/whom type of oppositions well. However, it's just something test makers love to include in their exams. I posted about who/whom in response to Howard's message because I disagreed from a theoretical point of view. The rules of spoken English are quite different, and as the tone of our posts is definitely colloquial, I don't see any point in imposing grammatical standards in this context. Otherwise, we'd have to buy rickie lee a new keyboard with a shift key! WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:02:59 -0400 (EDT) From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave) Subject: The COMPLETE Last Waltz It occured to me that I never posted the setlist for this show. Here it is, as it happened on that Thanksgiving night 22 years ago. disc 1 up on cripple vreek the shape i'm in it makes no difference life is a carnival this wheel's on fire the w.s. walcott medicine show georgia on my mind ophelia king harvest (has surely come) the night they drove old dixie down stage fright rag mama rag disc 2 who do you love ronnie hawkins such a night dr. john down south in new orleans bobby charles mystery train paul butterfield caledonia muddy waters mannish boy all our past times eric clapton further on up the road helpless neil young & JONI four strong winds disc 3 coyote JONI shadows and light furry sings the blues dry your eyes neil diamond tura lura lura van morrison caravan acadian driftwood w/ neil & JONI chest fever evangeline the weight disc 4 baby let me follow you down DYLAN hazel i don't believe you (she acts like we never met) forever young baby let me follow you down reprise i shall be released DYLAN et al intrumental jam #1 intrumental jam #2 dont't do it NP: Tape of the Day: 7/10/87 Grateful Dead w/ Bob Dylan JFK Stadium, Philadelphia, PA. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- DaveBase @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/2349/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:28:05 -0700 From: Michael Heath Subject: Re: Grammar Question WAS cul Peter K Mann wrote: > Well, since this list has been referring to grammar lately, I thought I'd try to take advantage of the wealth of knowledge that is evidently out there. I'm wondering if someone could answer this question for me (please e-mail me privately): Would you say, > > 1) I asked them if it were their desire to get married. > OR > 2) I asked them if it was their desire to get married. > > My sister is a translator for the government, and called to ask me. > > Peter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:51:09 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: Grammar Question >> 1) I asked them if it were their desire to get married. >> OR >> 2) I asked them if it was their desire to get married >WAS >cul > ...their desire to marry. or ...was their desire to wed. POC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:07:00 -0700 From: "Hollander, Frank" Subject: NJC Lucinda Williams "Car Williams on a Gravel Road" Wow, this is good stuff! I learned about her back when I lived in East Texas (very evocative), but didn't know the album was out until it was discussed here. Just listened to the song "Metal Firecracker" and it is devastating. Also note that the 1988 "Lucinda Williams" album is available now with bonus tracks (mostly live versions). I remember the day last year when (IIRC) I, quite unintentionally, listened to CD's by Tom Petty, Mary-Chapin Carpenter and Emmylou Harris(?), all with great cover versions of Lucinda Williams songs. Frank ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:57:45 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: pachyderm II From: "Don Rowe" Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:49:58 PDT >I should have also said: elephants trunk swinging back and forth ( you >get the image)...its jooni at her most earthy humor. Beyond the lyrical image is the magnificently deliberate rhythmic figure Joni uses to deliver this wonderful earthy line ... "1 -- Hangin' -- 2 on your -- 3 Boom -- 4 Boom -- 1 Pachyderm." What a treat! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:22:14 -0600 From: This Month in Joni History Subject: This Month in Joni History - July 1970: In the UK, "Big Yellow Taxi" reaches #11 and the "Ladies Of The Canyon" album hits #8. 1971: Joni tours the US and Europe with Jackson Browne, and is featured on backing vocals on James Taylor's US #1 You've Got A Friend. 1976: This month's issue of ARCHITECTURAL DIGEST magazine features a spread on Joni's new (and still current) home, complete with many pictures. Read the article at: http://www.jonimitchell.com/AD776.html 1979: The "Mingus" album is released. Mitchell is quoted as saying: "Mingus wanted his stock to go up before he died, there was an element of choosing me to write his epitaph, help ensure he got a bigger funeral." The album peaks at #17 in the US and #24 in the UK. 1991: This month's CD Review magazine publishes an interview with Joni. She is asked: "How much work have you done on the boxed set so far?" and responds: "We've begun the process of saving tapes. Old master tapes, like film, are deteriorating now - we've lived that long that they're beginning to go. So we're transferring over the early albums onto digital. In the process, we're looking at the raw footage, the uncut footage, and there's a lot that's salvageable there." Read the entire interview at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/cdr9107.htm 1996: This month's DETAIL magazine prints a short (and heavily edited) interview with Joni in which she says "America is trained to the new, and Joni Mitchell has been around for a while, although each of my albums has been a brand-new ball game. But I spent most of my life out of sync. I mean, I've been blacklisted for a long time." Read the printed portion of the interview at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/96detail.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:24:10 -0700 From: Michael Heath Subject: Re: Grammar Question good point! cul Patricia O'Connor wrote: > >> 1) I asked them if it were their desire to get married. > >> OR > >> 2) I asked them if it was their desire to get married > > >WAS > >cul > > > ...their desire to marry. > or > ...was their desire to wed. > > POC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:46:04 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Disregard this Test post for Bounce ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:12:08 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - July 6 1968: Today's issue of Rolling Stone reviews Joni's first album, saying "Here is Joni Mitchell. A penny yellow blonde with a vanilla voice. Influenced, or appearing influenced, by Judy Collins, gingham, leather, lace, producer David Crosby (the ex-Byrd), Robert Herrick, North Battleford (Saskatchewan), New York (New York), Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, Chuck, seagulls, dolphins, taxicabs, Dairy Queen floats, someone named Mr. Kratzman, "who taught me to love words," the Lovin' Spoonful, rain, sunlight, garbage, metermaids and herself." Read the entire review at: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/revjmrs.htm 1974: Today's Canadian Music Chart list "Court & Sparks" (sic) as the #2 album. http://www.jonimitchell.com/CanadianChart74.html - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:15:39 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - July 10 1983: Joni performs at the Stanley Theater in Pittsburgh - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:15:19 -0600 From: Today in Joni History Subject: Today in Joni History - July 9 1983: Joni performs at the Palace Theater in Columbus, Ohio - -------- Know a date or month specific Joni tidbit? Send it off to JoniFact@jmdl.com and we'll add it to the list. - -------- ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #248 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?