From: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #235 Reply-To: Sender: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Thursday, July 2 1998 Volume 03 : Number 235 The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- more etiquette requests ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Re: Republicans fight for the soul of the Party-- NJC [Michael Heath ] Re: Republicans fight for the soul of the Party-- NJC ["Kakki" ] etiquette schmetiquette [RickieLee1@aol.com] RE: Accordians [trxschwa ] Susan smiling as always [Michael Paz ] Amelia (NJC) ["Mark Domyancich" ] Uncomfy [Michael Paz ] Clarinets NJC [Michael Paz ] Using NJC...what's the big deal??? [ORLTed@aol.com] Re: Bea Arthur (njc) [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Horse Plug (njc) [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Pope bans contraception, euthanasia, women priests [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Republicans fight for the soul of the Party-- NJC [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Pope bans contraception, euthanasia, women priests [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Using NJC...what's the big deal??? [Marsha Doyle ] Re: NJC Devicevness (sp?) ["Patricia O'Connor" Subject: more etiquette requests At 06:58 PM 7/1/98 +0000, Deb wrote: >Folks, let's please remember the NJC tag in the subject line. I >believe that's a bit of etiquette spelled out in the initial JMDL >welcome letter, so it isn't me being autocratic here - it's Les! > Since we are all being so open about the nature of the list in response to the volume, Id like to say what bothers me. I personally don't care to read (here) LONG political, published articles that remotely involve a thread. JulieZW ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:19:24 -0700 From: Michael Heath Subject: Re: Republicans fight for the soul of the Party-- NJC Al Date wrote: > [I would think that toleration of gays would be even more > prevalent on this list than toleration of NRA gun-owners, > but there's only one way to find out.--ald] > > New York Times > 06-30-98 > Intraparty Debate Breaks Out Among Republicans Over > Criticism of Gays > By RICHARD L. BERKE > > WASHINGTON -- Prominent Republican politicians and strategists say they > are troubled by a wave of harsh anti-homosexual oratory from fellow > Republicans, fearing it could make the party appear intolerant and drive out > moderates and economic conservatives. Thanx for posting that piece, Al. As a gay, I used to be concerned with these types, then I realized the volume of their rhetoric was in direct proportion to the measure of our success in gaining respect and tolerance from the larger society. They are sort of a bellweather. cul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:37:13 -0700 From: Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM (Al Date) Subject: Accordians There is (or was) an accordian band in San Francisco called TDA-- Those Damn Accordians! Honesty in advertising! I saw them in 96, doing Baba O'Reilly (Teenage Wasteland?)-- you know, that song by the Who that has a synthesizer going thru the whole song. Let me tell you, when 20 accordians play that famous synthesizer part in unison, it's like having your head stuck in a Who bag-pipe! It sounded quite good actually, considering the utter hilarity of what was occurring on stage. :) This band also had a bass, electric guitar, a rock drummer, and several quality vocalists/accordianists, so that the hyper-accordian-emulation of this classic Who song was surprisingly complete and very enjoyable, for me anyway. My buddy and I were dancing the air-guitar, lip-syncing and LOL all at the same time. To be objective, however, a lot of people were just sitting there staring, with their mouths hanging slightly open. - --Al Date ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 18:37:45 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Now Children! Boy I leave you people alone for 10 days and everyone's got their daggers out, the NRA has been called in along with the marines, people threatening to lurk indefinitely, and normally very sedate folks really having a rant here. Come on now folks everyone in unison now, ten DEEP breaths.......... and to Howard Moytl- If you are going to experiment with drugs please make sure you have a co-pilot. Joni has one of the best voices I have ever heard. That coupled with her amazing guitar technique (unequaled by anyone on this planet) and song writing prowess...oh well As far as the Janet/Black Wings thread, I personally can't wait to hear the tribute album with whatever it may contain. Anne Rice was dead set against Tom Cruise as Lestat, but then she her own self stands corrected. So I guess we'll see. Cheers all, Michael Paz NP-Saturn Girl-Paula Cole ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:03:20 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Republicans fight for the soul of the Party-- NJC cul wrote: >Thanx for posting that piece, Al. As a gay, I used to be concerned with these >types, then I realized the volume of their rhetoric was in direct proportion to the >measure of our success in gaining respect and tolerance from the larger >society. They are sort of a bellweather. You are absolutely right. The pompous and shrill shrieks of those so-called "prominent Republicans" are just another example of a big-mouthed, fringe minority using affiliation with a larger group, and sacreligiously claiming the "direction" of the Bible, to try to give the illusion of a majority view, "sanctioned" by the Creator. Such tactics always spawn from desperation. But a scary lot, nonetheless. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 20:14:48 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC/nra In a message dated 98-07-01 11:46:14 EDT, donbvs@lightspeed.net writes: << I can legally carry a concealed firearm but choose not to. But if I want one, I don't want someone else telling me no. >> It seems to me that the issue on the table in most places is not whether you or I or anyone else can own and carry guns, but rather that we restrict what kinds of guns may be carried. Unfortunately, the NRS and other groups cloud that issue by overblowing the right to bear arms into a statement that any and all guns should be allowed. I realistically accept the fact that some guns will always be legal, and don't believe the citizenry should be disarmed. However, I can still support banning the sale and private ownership of certain types of guns, such as assault weapons, and also support waiting periods for the purchase of other guns without feeling that our Second Amendment rights are being abridged. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:08:51 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: NJC Devicevness (sp?) Al Date just posted two long newspaper articles to the list: Pope bans contraception, euthanasia, women priests Republicans fight for the soul of the Party-- NJC Obviously, Mr Date is aware that the two issues that have caused the most trouble on this list are sexuality and politics. Flame wars, people leaving, people being banished. Just as the mother/shame furor is dying down, Mr Date wants to stir things up again. I consider these posts to be deliberate incitement (sorry if my spelling aint too good right now. I'm a little upset). One of the great beauties of the jmdl is that people of totally different religions, political inclinations, sexual orientations, colors and nationalities can get along just fine. Please do not rise to Al's bait. There have been agents provacateurs on this list before. Let it pass. Let us not re-hash the things that tore us apart before. I realize that, by getting upset about this, I am helping Al to reach his goal. Enough. ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:03:26 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: etiquette schmetiquette it looks like, now that mr. date has had his jollies inflaming the faithful with his cruel and sophmoric judgements of joni and her family he is pandering to the feminists on the list (of which he considers himself one...HA!!) and now the gay community represented here too. the man has no shame!!! yuk, and again yuk. - ric and don't everyone jump on the chance to lecture me. (that goes for you mr. colin!) i am so mightily offended by that guy's cheaper than cheap shots against joni and her mum, and by so many of us actually CONGRATULATING him for doing so....oh gawd. where is my prozac???? (i am consigning myself to the lurkers. i am just not very good at it yet.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:43:02 -0400 From: trxschwa Subject: RE: Accordians al, this post had me howling, and my head ringing with the sound of 20 accordians playing one of the great hooks of all time. i want the cd-single!! patrick Those Damn Accordians! Honesty in advertising! I saw them in 96, doing Baba O'Reilly (Teenage Wasteland?)-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:35:58 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Susan smiling as always Hi List-I am almost caught up with the list.Boy it sure gets deep here. As usual, dear Susan always seems to be smiling. And above all you are right, it's the frigging orchestra that's out of tune, but I like it that way. As always, Michael Paz NP-Paprika Plains P. S. I like the way here voice sounds on each individual album. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 22:04:25 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Amelia (NJC) Tomorrow night, Thursday, ABC news will air a documetary on Amelia Earhart. Is she still alive? Was she swallowed by the sky? Maybe these and other questions will be answered. It's on at 10/9 Central. "Some have found their paradise Others just come to harm..." _________________________________________ Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net "Shadows have the saddest things to say." -Joni Mitchell _________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:27:20 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Uncomfy David wrote: "It makes me uncomfortable when people talk about how noble and healthy they find the free exchange of "ideas" on the list. Sure it's great that the list itself is uncensored, but that doesn't mean we should go patting ourselves on the back every time we assume the role of the upstart. And if memory serves me, Les has, while encouraging free speech, also encouraged us to post with respect for Joni." David I thought this was very well put. Sometimes I feel like I am reading the National Inquirer when I read some of this stuff. There seems to be alot of lack of respect lately, especially when it comes to the thread about her child and personal decisions she made ages ago. Also to Diana Duncan, your post of Sunday 28 June hit a chord for me as well. Hoping to leave Joni's private life out of the discussion. Michael NP-Just Want Some More-Sally Townes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:38:37 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Clarinets NJC Thomas related the very funny story about the clarinets which reminded me of this story a Yamaha Musical Instruments Rep told me. There was a very anal music store owner in NYC who spied on his salesmen by placing microphones in the various departments, to be able to find out what they were up to and monitor there sales techniques etc. One day a woman came in shopping for pianos and a salesman (who will remain nameless) started attending to the woman. He explained to the woman all the finest details about the piano telling her about the wood and ivory and string tension etc. The woman asked many questions and the salesman answered them all flawlessly. He invited the woman to lean over and check out the solid gold pedals that the piano had and so the woman did. With that the poor woman let a tremendous fart and of course was visibly embarrassed and distressed. The salesman quickly recovered and said, "That's ok lady, your gonna shit when you hear the price!"..... Thought I would share that with all you folks. Best, Michael Paz NP-Piano n The Dark-Sally Townes ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:47:35 EDT From: ORLTed@aol.com Subject: Using NJC...what's the big deal??? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_899351255_boundary Content-ID: <0_899351255@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 98-07-01 11:11:21 EDT, sem8@cornell.edu writes: << So please continue to mark NJC so that I can still be a member of this list. >> I second that! Talk about *anything* you want to talk about, but mark it NJC!! Without exceptions please! Please Please Thanks Thanks. Ted in Orlando - --part0_899351255_boundary Content-ID: <0_899351255@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-zb01.mx.aol.com (rly-zb01.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.1]) by air-zb05.mail.aol.com (v45.13) with SMTP; Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:11:20 -0400 Received: from siren.shore.net (siren.shore.net [207.244.124.5]) by rly-zb01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id LAA15615; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smoe.org [204.167.97.154] by siren.shore.net with esmtp (Exim) id 0yrOVO-0003k2-00; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:09:07 -0400 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) with SMTP id LAA01681; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:08:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by smoe.org (bulk_mailer v1.5); Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:08:03 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/listq-jane) id LAA01672 for joni-outgoing; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:07:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (POSTOFFICE.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.56.7]) by smoe.org (8.8.7/8.8.7/daemon-mode-relay2) with ESMTP id LAA01667 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:07:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [132.236.45.36] ([132.236.45.36]) by postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA29190 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:07:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: sem8@postoffice5.mail.cornell.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980701105942.00895820@doit.pgh.net> References: <01BDA490.9FBF4440.trxschwa@bway.net> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:07:31 -0400 To: joni@smoe.org From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: content (jc) (and separate thread answer) Sender: owner-joni@smoe.org Reply-To: Susan McNamara Precedence: bulk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I agree that this list should be run in agreement with how the membership wants it to be run, but coincidentally I have just made a decision regarding the Joni List which upsets me greatly. I have set up a filter to delete all NJC for the time being because the traffic has become so intense that I am always a week behind and I miss a lot of timely Joni news and content by manually deleting all njc. It doesn't really matter if I'm on digest or individual mail either, I still have to scroll through everything to get what I'm personally interested in reading. I'm not saying this is a solution for everyone, but it has become apparent that if I don't do something to control the volume I'm going to have to unsubscribe and that would be very painful. So please continue to mark NJC so that I can still be a member of this list. I agree with Patrick that sometimes those posts are filled with incredible richness but time is not on my side! Love to all, Sue >At 01:35 AM 7/1/98 -0400, Patrick wrote: >>i don't trust to decide what's appropriate and >>not on this list. hell, i don't trust any of you out there. and you're >>fools if you think i could be trusted with the responsibility of naming an >>appropriate list of discussion topics. ;-| >>i won't presume to tell you what to talk about and >>you do the same. it's the same deal i have with all my jmdl friends, and >>it works. > Since day one, this perspective has always been my preferred way of >conducting this forum. It's my opinion, that it's **the** way to keep a >communtiy of oldtimers and newcomers consistently interested in this site. > Thanks Patrick for pointing out the difficulties that would occur with >other scenarios, JulieZW ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell - --part0_899351255_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:52:41 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Bea Arthur (njc) In a message dated 98-06-30 08:49:08 EDT, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: >>Take a close look at >>Dyan Cannon on Ally McBeal Sorry, I have a personal policy never to watch anything with the name Ally or McBeal in it. By the way, did you know that Dyan Cannon's brother is the great jazz bassist David Friesen? We played together many years ago in Portland, Oregon. Small world. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:55:15 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Horse Plug (njc) From: Marsha Doyle > IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > Obviously, you need to smoke some of Crosby's "collector's only" killer weed > for there lyrics to start making sense! ;>) >>Pass me one of them while y'ur at it... Marsha, needs some altered >>state of consciousness right now You can't, Cros smoked it all up. It's gone ... there ain't no mo'! - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 00:04:19 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Pope bans contraception, euthanasia, women priests From: jan gyn >[SINEAD WAS RIGHT ABOUT THE POPE.--ald] > > >I thought she was right way back when. As did I. And then was terribly dismayed to hear the audience at a Bob Dylan tribute booing her soon after ... Bob Dylan, mind you! The irony ... - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 00:10:58 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Republicans fight for the soul of the Party-- NJC On NPR's Talk Of The Nation today I heard a guest mention: " ... marginalized groups like women, blacks, and Republicans." She was dead serious, too. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 00:19:19 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Pope bans contraception, euthanasia, women priests In a message dated 98-07-02 00:06:17 EDT, FredNow@aol.com writes: << >I thought she was right way back when. As did I. And then was terribly dismayed to hear the audience at a Bob Dylan tribute booing her soon after ... Bob Dylan, mind you! The irony ... -Fred >> Maybe that's why Bobby D. got an audience with the Pope! Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 00:55:52 -0400 From: Marsha Doyle Subject: Re: Using NJC...what's the big deal??? ORLTed@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-07-01 11:11:21 EDT, sem8@cornell.edu writes: > > << So please continue to mark NJC so that I can still be a member of this > list. >> > > I second that! Well, Ted... we might label such for your benefit, if you tell us why you were a no show at the Joni gatherings last month... and we were gonna celebrate your birthday... ;-) Marsha ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 00:56:44 -0400 From: Marsha Doyle Subject: (NJC)Re: Freedom of choice (NJC) Odlum, Brian wrote: > I like it, and actually, I would like to publicly thank Al for initiating > the "Joni Vs. Mother" thread(s). I know he took a lot of personal flack for > his ideas, but I found them to be not only interesting and stimulating, but > personally helpful to my own present life conflicts. The jmdl as cheap therapy...who would'a thunk... Marsha, going off to have a dream for Dr. Sig Mondegreene's free interpretive services ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 23:45:30 +0000 From: Kate Tarasenko Subject: JC/SJC: The Garden, accordion redemption, my videodoc Michael Paz: Come join the Day at the Garden list at garden@jmdl.com You can get lots of concert info there, and discuss potential plans with others who are going. I really encourage you jmdlers who are stuck in the thinking-stage to join the garden-list as well -- you may become properly inspired to get off the fence and go! I'm staying at a lovely marina hotel right on a lake, a mere five miles from the concert. Apparently, there are many delights tucked away (the Roscoe Diner, etc.), and it simply sounds like a relaxing yet exciting time. Joni at Woodstock? How epic can you get??? RMuRocks: If it's got bellows and buttons, it's related to the accordion. Others who employ its lovely, sad sound: Evan Lurie, Tom Waits, Penguin Cafe Orchestra. My video doc (SJC): I just started work on my master's thesis project, a video documentary. I'm taping a family of prolific artists -- the parents are a mixed-media artist and a musician, one son is an incredible painter working at the moment in Antarctica, the daughter is a fashion designer who lives in LA, and the other son is a writer who was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic some years ago (I'm actually naming my doc after him, as he will be the "peripheral focus"). As I taped an interview with the visiting daughter tonight, imagine my surprise when I discovered that her troubled brother is a huge Joni fan! In fact, there was a time in his early 20s when he was positively a fanatic, just the time around which he starting "going crazy." (And no jokes about the possible connection!!) This association makes it hard for the sister to listen to Joni, as much as she respects her talent. At any rate, the brother told the family that he's willing to participate in my project, and I cannot wait to arrive at his door with TI and NRH, music that I'm sure he doesn't yet have (he relies on a small disability payment from the government and lives a very spartan lifestyle). And the soundtrack for my project? The mind reels. In fact, this may launch a new thread: mental madness in Joni's lyrics. TI may have to be the song for the credits outro. What else??? Thanks for letting me chat about this. I never imagined that I'd have a Joni connection in my project -- you listers can understand the jolt I got tonight! Tomorrow, another jolt (NJC): I pick up a certified letter from my landlords. An invitation of some sort, no doubt... Kate in Colorado ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 01:48:04 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: NJC: Wanted to buy I'm looking for a nice copy of For The Roses on LP. Prefer an opened promo copy but then... who doesn't? Seriously though, please respond if your copy has almost no surface noise. Thanks always. - -- Seems like many dim years ago, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 02:53:03 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: NJC Devicevness (sp?) Steve Dulson wrote: >Obviously, Mr Date is aware that the two issues that have caused the >most trouble on this list are sexuality and politics. Flame wars, >people leaving, people being banished. Just as the mother/shame >furor is dying down, Mr Date wants to stir things up again. I >consider these posts to be deliberate incitement (sorry if my >spelling aint too good right now. I'm a little upset). Steve,what led you to believe that? Could it be that Al's "Republicans fight for the soul..." post began with: "[I would think that toleration of gays would be even more prevalent on this list than toleration of NRA gun-owners, but there's only one way to find out.--ald]" ? Could it be this subject line: "Pope bans contraception, euthanasia,women priests"? What are you saying Al? That the Pope has reversed his stand on these issues? A basic rule of etiquette, on or off the Internet, is not to attack one's religion. It amazes me that otherwise intelligent and well-mannered people who would not tolerate public bashing of Hindus, Buddhists or Jews, find it acceptable to attack Catholics for their beliefs. Religion is a choice, if you don't agree with Roman Catholic Canon Law, choose not to be Roman Catholic. POC ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #235 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?