From: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V3 #234 Reply-To: Sender: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com Errors-To: owner-joni-digest@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk JMDL Digest Wednesday, July 1 1998 Volume 03 : Number 234 The Official 1998 Joni Mitchell Internet Community Shirts are available now. Go to http://www.jmdl.com/ for all the details. ------- The New England Labor Day Weekend JoniFest is coming soon! Send a blank message to for all the details. ------- Trivia buffs! We are compiling an in-depth trivia database on all things Joni. Send your bit of trivia - or your questions you would like answered - to ------- And don't forget about JoniFest 1999! Reserve your spot with a $25 fee. Only 100 rooms have been reserved. Send a blank message to for more info. ------- The Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Joni's paintings, original essays, lyrics and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at and contains Joni-related interviews, articles, member gallery, info on the archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- The Garden [The Yarn Kollection ] Early Joni (long) ["Kakki" ] Re: Bea Arthur (njc) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] NJC: Waddles and Lips [kbarnicle@ensr.com] NJC: Accordian o'rama [kbarnicle@ensr.com] Re: NJC - World Cup Soccer ["Mark Domyancich" ] Re: Accordian o'rama ["Mark Domyancich" ] re: content [Robert Holliston ] Happy Canada Day ... ["Don Rowe" ] Re: Horse Plug (njc) [Bill Dollinger ] Re: Accordian o'rama [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Parent songs [Heather ] Re: Horse Plug (njc) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: content (jc) (and separate thread answer) ["Julie Z. Webb" ] Re: Freedom of choice wr2 guns (NJC) [Heather ] Re: content (jc) (and separate thread answer) [Susan McNamara ] Re: content (NJC) [Marsha Doyle ] Joni Airplay 6/98 [Steve Dulson ] Re: NJC: Accordian o'rama [sherrie.good@chronicle.com] NJC/nra [Don Sloan ] En Guard ! [Michael Paz (by way of Les Irvi] NJC Accordion ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: NJC: Accordian o'rama [sherrie.good@chronicle.com] Re: NJC/nra [Bill Dollinger ] Re: Accordian o'rama ["Mark Domyancich" ] How's Wally? [Sue ] Michael Hedges (njc) [Linda Brady ] Re: Michael Hedges (njc) [Janet Hess ] Woodstock 98 ["Donald Fluke" ] Happy Canada Day -- UK Linda Test Results ["Don Rowe" ] Joni in N.Y. ["Donald Fluke" ] Re: NJC/nra [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni mother-shame fixation [Susan McNamara ] List, Life, and Love (NJC) [Ashara@aol.com] Re: Joni in stock [Gertus@aol.com] Accordion shame [Gertus@aol.com] Great Mature Voices: Nina Simone (NJC) [The Yarn Kollection ] Re: Pope bans contraception, euthanasia, women priests [jan gyn ] Republicans fight for the soul of the Party-- NJC [Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM (A] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 03:16:29 -0400 From: The Yarn Kollection Subject: The Garden To All, I said it before I went to the Gorge. I said it after I got back from Washington. "Joni if you come East - I will be there!!" Hey Jules, You know that it's a standing invite (( : > )- Mendi - -- "Don't listen to the din rising behind you. Look at life like a train wreck and one finds you. Light a match and your fear of fire will burn you down." P.L. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:41:48 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Early Joni (long) The early vs. other stages Joni thread, that comes up here every now and then, had me thinking about a few of my fave passages in Crosby's autobiography. Let me qualify that I love ALL Joni albums, voices, music, etc. but it does seem that the stage of Joni you first heard tends to leave its emotional imprint on you. For early Joni lovers - Excerpts from "Long Time Gone" - "David took special pleasure in revealing Joni to his friends as if she were a precious, rare, and undiscovered jewel -- At 4 A.M. when everyone was thoroughly blasted on the Cros's usual 'collector's-only' weed, David said 'I want you to hear someone.' Leaving the little group of comics and actors wrecked on the floor, he disappeared and returned with an ethereal blonde holding a guitar. There, in a hillside house in Laurel Canyon, a half-dozen stoned and lucky actors heard a never-before-recorded Joni Mitchell sing half her new album in the pre-dawn light. The company was stunned. 'We thought we hallucinated her.' Joni nodded, said little, and retired upstairs while Crosby just grinned. He repeated the exercise with Peter Fonda and with others." Peter Fonda - "(Crosby) says 'Serious, man. Listen to this.' And Joni, kind of shy appears. Staring at the ground for something to do, she sees my twelve-string guitar leaning against the wall and asks, 'Can I use that?' She grabs a hold of my guitar and detunes the f*cker and then plays thirteen or fourteen songs, warbling like the best thing I'd ever heard in my life. Joni was fabulous. I was just bowled over by this fabulous person with a wonderful voice and a great style. Lovely." Elliot Roberts - (Joni's former manager) - "they played (L.A. disc jockey) B. Mitchell Reed's house. David invited some people over. I remember Cass was there, John Sebastian, Michelle Phillips, seven or eight people, all heavy players. David says 'Joan,' and called Joni out. She was upstairs and came down with her guitar and she played eight or nine of the best songs ever written. The next day B. Mitchell Reed talked about it on the radio, how there was this girl in town named Joni Mitchell that's recording an album and there's nothing he can play now, but whenever this album comes out, it's going to be one of the great albums of all time. David set it up so that when the album finally came out, everyone in L.A. was aware of Joni Mitchell. The first club date we played, at the Troubadour, was standing room only for four nights, two shows a night." Carl Gottlieb - "By the time Joni's album record out, she was an industry legend, properly positioined for breakout success." Ah, the good old days...;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 07:00:54 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Bea Arthur (njc) In a message dated 98-06-30 08:49:08 EDT, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: << Take a close look at Dyan Cannon on Ally McBeal. >> Ah yes, The Whipper's Waddle vs. Janet Reno's. Not something I could be attracted to or obsess over, but certainly one of the more amusing storylines in what was the best new show of last season. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 98 7:46:32 EDT From: kbarnicle@ensr.com Subject: NJC: Waddles and Lips Sorry to take up bandwidth, but since we are on the subbject ..... Speaking of Dyan Cannon's waddle, what about those lips? Those can't possibly be natural, can they? When Whipper speaks, it looks as if she has to struggle to talk. Silicone? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 98 8:09:03 EDT From: kbarnicle@ensr.com Subject: NJC: Accordian o'rama I have been listening to one great 16 year old (?) accordion player: Chris Ardoin and his band Double 'Clutchin' and the album Gon' Be Jus Fine. On Rounder Records. Great rockin zydeco stuff! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 07:24:41 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Re: NJC - World Cup Soccer And Croatia beat Romania! ...Back in my hometown... _________________________________________ Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net "Shadows have the saddest things to say." -Joni Mitchell _________________________________________ Anne Madden wrote: Subject: Re: Accordian o'rama And has anyone heard of the Kabalas? They call themselves Jewish rock or Russian rock or something. Drums, clarinet, accordion, the whole gambit. They're from around here. _________________________________________ Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net "Shadows have the saddest things to say." -Joni Mitchell _________________________________________ kbarnicle wrote: Subject: re: content Patrick Leader wrote: > ...i won't presume to tell you what to talk about and you do the same. it's > the same deal i have with all my jmdl friends, and it works. trust >this > community..... I'm 100% in agreement with Patrick on this one. Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 07:19:32 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Happy Canada Day ... We're celebrating Canada Day with a day long office musical tribute ... and this goes out to Linda in UK -- we're testing your "Court and Spark" vs. "Dog Eat Dog" theory via random play. Also in the mix will be some Rush (of course), Sarah Mac, Exchange and some others. Don't pout all you Brian Adams fans out in Joni-land -- I've only got him on cassette and no playah in da house. So ... take off, eh! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:18:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: Re: Horse Plug (njc) On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Thomas Ross wrote: > . . .then what technique in your view is more than adequate? The point I was making is that technique is nothing to me as a listener unless the music can make me feel something. It has to attach me to the material in a way that I can relate to it. > >but it is not really the type of music > that leaves me with any emotion. > > as in 'If You Could See Me Now' or 'Where Did You Sleep?'? Yes. > >but the lyrics leave me cold. > > indeed, which ones? lines such as >> 'the tear thief dreams he cries > or 'if one dog barks at nothing > o my life they all shout up the moon in me' > or 'heaven is in your ears, and you hear when you want to'? Truth be told, I am not moved by these. I cannot relate to or put myself in the place of anything in any of the lyrics. > No? which then? See above. > > TR > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:42:46 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Accordian o'rama In a message dated 98-07-01 08:28:29 EDT, Harpua@revealed.net writes: << the Kabalas? They call themselves Jewish rock or Russian rock or something. Drums, clarinet, accordion, the whole gambit. They're from around here. >> "around here" being....? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:44:13 -0400 From: Heather Subject: Re: Parent songs At 08:19 PM 6/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >No one has mentioned John Lennon's "Mother", a very bitter song. > Marsha - I do have a funny card about John Lennon's mom ... picture .. a small boy at the dinner table with a plate of peas in front of him ... the mother is trying to spoon feed the youngster saying "All that I'm saying, is give peas a chance!" > >NP: Gino Vannelli's new release "Slow Love"... > oooooo, I have to check this out! Heather ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:46:00 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Horse Plug (njc) In a message dated 98-07-01 10:21:52 EDT, bdolling@CapAccess.org writes: << > > indeed, which ones? lines such as >> 'the tear thief dreams he cries > or 'if one dog barks at nothing > o my life they all shout up the moon in me' > or 'heaven is in your ears, and you hear when you want to'? Truth be told, I am not moved by these. I cannot relate to or put myself in the place of anything in any of the lyrics. >> Obviously, you need to smoke some of Crosby's "collector's only" killer weed for there lyrics to start making sense! ;>) Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:59:42 -0500 From: "Julie Z. Webb" Subject: Re: content (jc) (and separate thread answer) At 01:35 AM 7/1/98 -0400, Patrick wrote: >i don't trust to decide what's appropriate and >not on this list. hell, i don't trust any of you out there. and you're >fools if you think i could be trusted with the responsibility of naming an >appropriate list of discussion topics. ;-| >i won't presume to tell you what to talk about and >you do the same. it's the same deal i have with all my jmdl friends, and >it works. Since day one, this perspective has always been my preferred way of conducting this forum. It's my opinion, that it's **the** way to keep a communtiy of oldtimers and newcomers consistently interested in this site. Thanks Patrick for pointing out the difficulties that would occur with other scenarios, JulieZW ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:58:00 -0400 From: Marsha Doyle Subject: Re: Horse Plug (njc) IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-07-01 10:21:52 EDT, bdolling@CapAccess.org writes: > > Truth be told, I am not moved by these. I cannot > relate to or put myself in the place of anything in > any of the lyrics. >> > > Obviously, you need to smoke some of Crosby's "collector's only" killer weed > for there lyrics to start making sense! ;>) Pass me one of them while y'ur at it... Marsha, needs some altered state of consciousness right now ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:04:03 -0400 From: Heather Subject: Re: Freedom of choice wr2 guns (NJC) At 09:38 PM 6/30/98 -0700, you wrote: > >My position is simple: I am pro-choice on every conceivable >matter, including sexual relations, drug/cigarette/alcohol >intake, abortion, and gun-ownership. Freedom of choice >is simply too important a moral and legal principle to >put it on a slippery slope, for ANY reason. > >Of course, I do NOT favor the irresponsible abuse of >any of these choices. If you abuse your rights, and harm >other members of society, or threaten other members of >society, then you lose your rights, period. > > Al- I finally agree with you! (I knew there had to be something ;-) I would just like to throw in one thing ... tollerance. People have to learn to tollerate other peoples choices in life. It's not always an easy thing to do but, trying can make all the difference. Regards Heather PS - I've given you the nickmane "Al Nino of the JMDL" for stirring things up around here 8-) (I mean that in a good way) > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:07:31 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: content (jc) (and separate thread answer) I agree that this list should be run in agreement with how the membership wants it to be run, but coincidentally I have just made a decision regarding the Joni List which upsets me greatly. I have set up a filter to delete all NJC for the time being because the traffic has become so intense that I am always a week behind and I miss a lot of timely Joni news and content by manually deleting all njc. It doesn't really matter if I'm on digest or individual mail either, I still have to scroll through everything to get what I'm personally interested in reading. I'm not saying this is a solution for everyone, but it has become apparent that if I don't do something to control the volume I'm going to have to unsubscribe and that would be very painful. So please continue to mark NJC so that I can still be a member of this list. I agree with Patrick that sometimes those posts are filled with incredible richness but time is not on my side! Love to all, Sue >At 01:35 AM 7/1/98 -0400, Patrick wrote: >>i don't trust to decide what's appropriate and >>not on this list. hell, i don't trust any of you out there. and you're >>fools if you think i could be trusted with the responsibility of naming an >>appropriate list of discussion topics. ;-| >>i won't presume to tell you what to talk about and >>you do the same. it's the same deal i have with all my jmdl friends, and >>it works. > Since day one, this perspective has always been my preferred way of >conducting this forum. It's my opinion, that it's **the** way to keep a >communtiy of oldtimers and newcomers consistently interested in this site. > Thanks Patrick for pointing out the difficulties that would occur with >other scenarios, JulieZW ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:13:30 -0400 From: Heather Subject: Re: Horse Plug (njc) At 02:48 AM 7/1/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Yes it's the same one that Michael Hedges loved so much he wouldn't return >the copy given him by Joni guitarman Joel Bernstein. > Speaking of Michael Hedges - I just learned that he died in an auto accident last November.(I'm always behind the times) What a loss! I never had the chance to see him play. I heard that it was a treat to see him perform. Has anyone on the list had that opportunity? There is a tribute to Michael in the July issue of Acoustic Guitar. Heather (who is now purchasing MH CD's like crazy) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:15:00 -0400 From: Marsha Doyle Subject: Re: content (NJC) Susan McNamara wrote: > I agree that this list should be run in agreement with how the membership > wants it to be run, but coincidentally I have just made a decision > regarding the Joni List which upsets me greatly. I have set up a filter to > delete all NJC We will miss you, Sue. But now you will have time to read all the Woodstock posts you are now subscribing to, right? I labeled my response to your post here as "NJC" for the benefit of (in)digesters, but it should get to you directly... Marsha, loves high volume, high numbers of members, rich NJC content and the evolution of this cyber-community ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 08:10:48 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Joni Airplay 6/98 Here is the list I have compiled off FOLKDJ-L for airplay on folk music radio shows in June. Support these DJs, if you're in their area! Charlie Backfish, WUSB 90.1, Stony Brook, NY 9 A.M. - 11:30 A.M. Sundays CBackfish@aol.com Come In From the Cold Night Ride Home Ken Brock, WBYM Radio, 1490 AM, Hampton, VA Sunday ken_brock@HOTMAIL.COM Morning Morgantown Big Yellow Taxi The Circle Game Taylor Caffery, WRKF 89.3, Baton Rouge, LA Saturday tcaffery@IAMERICA.NET Cool Water Clytia Fuller, KZSC 88.1, Santa Cruz, CA Friday 9-noon clytia@CRUZIO.COM Moon at the Window Man From Mars Nightride Home Frank Gosar, KLCC, Eugene, OR Saturday fgosar@EFN.ORG Chelsea Morning Suzanne Jameson, KXCI 91.3, Tucson, AZ 9 a.m. - 12 p.m Friday sqcomps@AZSTARNET.COM You Turn Me On I'm A Radio John D. Kalb, WSCL 89.5, Salisbury, MD & WSDL 90.7 Ocean City, MD, 8-11 p.m. Sat. jdkalb@SSU.EDU Just Like This Train Scott MacKinnon, WSMU 91.1, North Dartmouth, MA Saturday srprod@TIAC.NET Blue Hotel Room Chris McGill, WSPN 91.1, Saratoga Springs, NY 9AM - NOON SUNDAYS cmcgill@skidmore .edu Chelsea Morning Robert McWilliams, KANU 91.5, Lawrence, KS Thursday radiobob@FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU The Reoccuring Dream Mark Rallings, WUNC 91.5, Chapel Hill, NC 8:00 - 11:00 p.m. Saturday jkweston@email.unc.edu Let the Wind Carry Me ############################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://members.aol.com/tinkersown/home.html "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:23:29 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: Re: NJC: Accordian o'rama accordians... zydeco... i have two words for all of you: Queen Ida!!!!!!! though technically, or maybe the lack of, she calls her instrument a "squeeze box." anybody know any updates on her. Lori? i have all of her stuff. the snag is all other zydeco pales in comparison. she is the queen. if you aren't dancing when you put her on, call Marsha to check your pulse... sherrie NP: Lucinda Willaims, 'Car Wheels On A Gravel Road' ... excellent... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 08:51:02 -0700 From: Don Sloan Subject: NJC/nra As a staunch Libertarian, I believe Al hit the nail squarely on the head. Unfortunately, lots of people in this country want it both ways - freedom to do *their* thing along with the power to dictate what others do. It don't and won't work that way. You either believe in and support (responsible) freedom or you don't. If you have a problem with the NRA lobbying in DC (or any of the hundreds of other powerful lobbyists) then take it up with the people you elect. THEY are the greedy fucks voting for the dollar which is an infinitely larger problem than the NRA or guns could ever be. As for making anything go away by making it illegal... dream on. It's what is called *magical thinking* to believe this will happen. (Ever hear of the multi-billion dollar industry called The War On Drugs?) And almost everything people don't want to see happen with guns is illegal already... everyday I work with kids who kill and believe me, they don't give a shit if guns are legal or not. Discussions about gun control - which I've had with them - are a real joke in their eyes. But coming upon a victim with a gun is something they take very seriously. I find it interesting that very often people who want guns to disappear don't have the courage to appropriately and effectively deal with the real evil - the violent criminal. I can legally carry a concealed firearm but choose not to. But if I want one, I don't want someone else telling me no. Freedom isn't free. The cost is high and many people have paid the ultimate price to keep some semblamce of it alive here. Yet we as a people seem more interested in electing a Mommie and Daddy to put in the White House than someone who will protect our rights to be free of the dictates of others. Off the soap box and on to work.... Don S. al date wrote: > My position is simple: I am pro-choice on every conceivable > matter, including sexual relations, drug/cigarette/alcohol > intake, abortion, and gun-ownership. Freedom of choice > is simply too important a moral and legal principle to > put it on a slippery slope, for ANY reason. > > Of course, I do NOT favor the irresponsible abuse of > any of these choices. If you abuse your rights, and harm > other members of society, or threaten other members of > society, then you lose your rights, period. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:12:33 -0600 From: Michael Paz (by way of Les Irvin ) Subject: En Guard ! Paul wrote: Apparently, Scott, many people think it does have a place on the JMDL. Steve wrote: >I'm with Scott on this - I suggest those interested take it off-list. Hi guys, I have learned that we really are a community here and pretty much anything goes on this list as far as discussion. Even tho I personally skip most of the garbage, I am still distressed when this turns to a public display of negativity towards someone or something. Especially when someone requests politely to take it private. To this end, I support Scott and welcome him and his differences to the list and also support Steve in requesting that you take it to the "nra" page or the "agree to disagree" page which is very vogue right now. Give it a rest! Michael np-How Do You Stop ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 13:15:49 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: NJC Accordion If you want the ultimate accordion experience, check Guy Klucevsek's CD's. He plays music by John Zorn [ a piece called Road Runner, which recreates cartoon soundtracks on the accordion!] and Pauline Oliveros [ big name among contemporary music composers]. The CD I'm talking about begins with this very trippy rendition of the Blue Danube for accordion and sax. A piece called Toronto [ BTW, Happy Canada Dry, I mean, Day] will leave you wondering if that's really an accordion or a whole wind section. Don't miss it! WallyK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:34:57 -0500 From: sherrie.good@chronicle.com Subject: Re: NJC: Accordian o'rama when i was in high school, there was an annual talent show. my friends and i formed a kazoo band. there were about 20 members of our band, and we were horrible. we featured myself and my best friend on 'nose flutes,' an actual instrument you held under your nose and blew through your nostrils, moving your lips to form notes. we probably did some tune by Canned Heat or Hot Tuna or god knows what. everyone else in the show hated us because they didn't think we were serious, by sadly, we were! we didn't win. sherrie wondering what Dulson will have to say about this!!! probably just glad he didn't have to hear it. hahaha. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:35:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Dollinger Subject: Re: NJC/nra On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Don Sloan wrote: > As a staunch Libertarian, Why are all libertarians "staunch?" Seriously, anytime I have heard someone describe themselves as libertarian, they include the adjective staunch. I see libertarianism as a wonderful prospect if you are one of the powered members of society. It seems to have much less to offer the not so powerful. "Is justice just ice? Just the strong doing what they can And the weak suffering what they must?" Bill NP - Linda Ronstadt - We Ran ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:53:32 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Re: Accordian o'rama > < <"around here" being....? < Around here being Illinois. _________________________________________ Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net "Shadows have the saddest things to say." -Joni Mitchell _________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:54:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Subject: How's Wally? I was reading some of my old mail and started to wonder if we would be having another update on Wally soon. The last one came on June 23. Leslie or Jim, or even Wally, can you tell us how things are going? My thoughts have been drifting to Wally and his recovery lately, especially with all the little flames flying on the list. Let's hope that no news is good news, and things are going well. Wally, are you taking Dr. Mitchell's advice? Lot's of laughter, and a good dose of healthy eating. Do you have the cable station Comedy Central? Turn it on. Better yet, rent some of those silly Monty Python movies, or Mel or Woody. Laugh and get well soon Wally. Sending good thoughts your way, Sue Cameron (Suze) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:24:36 +0100 From: Linda Brady Subject: Michael Hedges (njc) Heather wrote: > Speaking of Michael Hedges - I just learned that he died in an auto > accident last November.(I'm always behind the times) What a loss! I never > had the chance to see him play. I heard that it was a treat to see him > perform. Has anyone on the list had that opportunity? There is a tribute > to Michael in the July issue of Acoustic Guitar. I saw him in his hometown of Baltimore and was blown away. His guitar playing was phenomenal..especially if you like Joni's playing, because they both use those wacky tunings. His live show was *much* better than his recordings, I'd say. Sounded like he had six hands... Linda ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 13:36:52 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: Michael Hedges (njc) Michael is (I can hardly bring myself to say "was") a treasure. I saw him perform 4 times, the last time at the Birchmere, about 10 days before his death. It's almost impossible to think I won't be going to any more of Michael's concerts. I agree with Linda that Michael in performance far outshone Michael on recordings. But that's because his performances were so transcendent, not because his CDs were lousy. :-) Anyone who didn't have the pleasure of seeing him can nonetheless hear a bit of his magic. There are a couple live videos that give a hint of Michael's performing power, although it's *only* a hint. His segment of the "Windham Hill: In Concert" video is worth catching (and the video itself is widely available). At 06:24 PM 7/1/98 +0100, Linda wrote: >Heather wrote: >> Speaking of Michael Hedges - I just learned that he died in an auto >> accident last November.(I'm always behind the times) What a loss! I >never >> had the chance to see him play. I heard that it was a treat to see him >> perform. Has anyone on the list had that opportunity? There is a tribute >> to Michael in the July issue of Acoustic Guitar. > >I saw him in his hometown of Baltimore and was blown away. His guitar >playing was phenomenal..especially if you like Joni's playing, because they >both use those wacky tunings. His live show was *much* better than his >recordings, I'd say. Sounded like he had six hands... > >Linda > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:13:59 -0400 From: "Donald Fluke" Subject: Woodstock 98 Does anyone live in the Woodstock area? I'm trying to go ! What is the nearest big city? Is there RV camping onsite (nearby). I hear its open seating. What time do the gates open??? Just sign up to the garden-list, see you there don in ft. lauderdale ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:20:10 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Happy Canada Day -- UK Linda Test Results Okay, test results are in -- and the winner IS??? Well, critically it's kind of a draw. In our earlier thread, you mentioned that you felt Joni was straining to hit notes and not quite getting there, if I can paraphrase. I do hear a bit of that in "The Three Great Stimulants" towards the end ... but I still think she does hit the note on key, but at the cost of a more strident vocal quality. Which for the song, works for me. Ditto this comment on some of the backing vocals on "Tax Free", but as Linda Thompson once quipped "with that much reverb Kiley Minogue would sound good!" Maybe a little more obvious flatness shows up in the interior lead vocal work on "Shiny Toys." Now I also found there's a bit of "inexact" vocal warbling in evidence on "Court and Spark", at least to my ear. While "Twisted" is top of the list for this one (where again, I think it fits perfectly), there are a couple of places in 1st and 3rd verse of "Just Like This Train" where the top of the scale feels a bit flat. So bottom line ... I think whether you like the more "mezzo" of C&S, or the breathier "coloratura" of DED ... there's a Joni for all seasons! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 19:31:00 +0100 From: Linda Brady Subject: Re: Happy Canada Day -- UK Linda Test Results > So bottom line ... I think whether you like the more "mezzo" of C&S, or > the breathier "coloratura" of DED ... there's a Joni for all seasons! Right on, Don. By the way, isn't that Vinnie Coloratura playing drums on Wild Things Run Fast? ;o) UK Linda ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 13:55:51 -0500 From: "Mark Domyancich" Subject: Top Divas In Rock In the August issue of Guitar One, there is an article of women guitarists. They show a small picture of Court and Spark, but no photo or article on our Joan. I'll keep an eye out, though. _________________________________________ Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net "Shadows have the saddest things to say." -Joni Mitchell _________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:06:28 -0400 From: "Donald Fluke" Subject: Joni in N.Y. I just had a thought. Woodstock is so close to New York City. Could this possibly be when Joni plans to do the Fez? Either before or after A Day in the Garden? What do you think ? It could be like the west coast tour. That after the event she would do something else in the area. don in ft. lauderdale ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 15:58:47 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC/nra Don Sloan wrote: > As for making anything go away by making it illegal... dream on. No one is talking about making guns illegal. Just mere registration is hardly outlawing guns. The Brady bill kept guns out of 97,000 felons hands last year. What's so bad about a 3-day wait while backgrounds are checked? Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:12:41 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Joni mother-shame fixation > >Perhaps what we may be guilty of here, is expecting her to be above the rest >of us, emotionally. > >Terry Wow, this is a great quote, Terry, and something I've thought of a lot. I know some really talented people who are shy, loving, scared, and even ordinary. The general public is just so blown away by talent that there is an assumption that the person is not only brilliant intellectually but brilliant in all other aspects too. Maybe that's why she identifies so much with Van Gogh. So what DO you know about living in Turbulent Indigo? Another quote that always grabs me in this way is, "revoked but not yet cancelled, the gift goes on ..." The gift is what makes her special, the gift is what makes her choose which direction to go in her life, and the fact that she has followed that without compromise (in my opinion) is what makes her very courageous to me. If she had problems with her mother it was probably because she had to follow her muse and not her mother (mama let go now, it's always called to me ...) And I know I've said this before but healthy birds fly. I haven't even gotten through all the posts on this Joni and her mom thread, but what I've read so far is AWESOME!! Thanks, Al, for bringing up this issue! Ok, I'm going back to living in the past (6/25/98!) ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:22:42 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: List, Life, and Love (NJC) Maggie wrote: << I'm about to start a FT job and wondering what those who work full time do to balance List, life and love >> Life and love? Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:24:22 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni in stock Our local branch of Our Price stocks nearly all of Joni's albums and, in fact, was selling about half a dozen of them in the sale recently at £6.99! However, obtaining the import version of DJRD proved to be quite beyond them! I sense that there is an increase of interest in JM in the UK at present so this could be an ideal time for her to visit and promote the new album. Nick Hornby has done his bit with his books,especially "About a Boy" which features a Joni obsessed mother. It's good to see some new UK names on the list. Welcome. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:24:21 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Accordion shame If you want to hear really great accordion playing, try listening to the English player, John Kirkpatrick. I recommend his album "Jump at the Sun" among others. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:53:10 -0400 From: The Yarn Kollection Subject: Great Mature Voices: Nina Simone (NJC) > My list of great mature voices: Nina Simone, > John and All who may be interested: It just so happens the Miss Simone will be appearing in the beautiful state of Washington, the city of Seattle, in of all months, August. ONE REEL PRESENTS AT&T SUMMER NIGHTS @ PIER PIER 6263 ON ALASKAN WAY NINA SIMONE ART ENSEMBLE OF CHICAGO FRI AUG 21, 1998 8:00PM SUMMER NIGHTS AT THE PIER 62/63: All Events | Venue Information Primary Act: NINA SIMONE City: SEATTLE State: WA Event Date: Aug 21, 1998 Price: $38.00 You can check out the info at: http://events.ticketmaster.com/cgi/events/perfname.idc?searchname=NINA_SIMONE&state=WA&venuenum=101&date=19980821 It seems that many of my most admired artist are choosing to make themselves accessible this year. But as misfortune would have it, I wont be able to coordinate seeing Joni and Nina in the same month. I can only hope that this will not be the end of Nina's touring this year and she comes East as well. Mark Scott: If you and Travis happen to take this one in, Please get a picture for me. I have not forgotten that I owe you a keying. Mendi - -- "Don't listen to the din rising behind you. Look at life like a train wreck and one finds you. Light a match and your fear of fire will burn you down." P.L. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:21:36 -0700 From: Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM (Al Date) Subject: Pope bans contraception, euthanasia, women priests [SINEAD WAS RIGHT ABOUT THE POPE.--ald] VATICAN CITY, June 30 (Reuters) - Pope John Paul turned the screws on theologians on Tuesday, enshrining into church law an oath obliging them to accept Catholic teachings such as bans on women priests, contraception and euthanasia. The changes were contained in a short Apostolic Letter titled ``In Order to Defend the Faith.'' In it, the 78-year-old Pope ordered changes in several sections of the Church's Code of Canon law, which sets out precepts and punishments. The oath, which theologians have to take before they can teach in the name of the Church, has existed since 1989 but the Pope's letter engraves it into Canon Law -- which has been changed only several times in recent centuries. Part of the oath is the ``profession of faith,'' during which a candidate for church office such as bishop, theologian or papal collaborator reads the ``Apostles Creed,'' the prayer of basic Christian beliefs recited during the mass. Then, the candidate expresses a belief in ``divinely revealed truths,'' and everything ``definitively proposed by the Church regarding teachings on faith and morals.'' The candidate also promises to ``adhere with religious submission of will and intellect'' to teachings as enunciated by the Pope and the College of Bishops. In his apostolic letter, the Pope said the changes were necessary in order to ``defend the faith of the Catholic Church from errors that arise on the part of some faithful...'' The document appeared to be another attempt by the ageing Pope to leave his conservative stamp on the 980-million member Church long after the end of his pontificate. One bane of John Paul's pontificate has been theologians teaching in official capacities in Catholic universities who have publicly dissented from some of the church's moral teachings. Several, such as the Reverend Charles Curran of the Catholic University of America in Washington D.C., were stripped of their permission to teach in the name of the church. The Pope's letter was similar to a move in 1995, when, in an attempt to slam shut the debate over women priests, the Vatican declared that the ban on their ordination was an infallible part of Catholic doctrine that could not be disputed or changed. An accompanying commentary to the Pope's letter by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican department that watches over the purity of theology, said: ``On questions of faith and morals, the only subject qualified to fulfil the office of teaching with binding authority for the faithful is the Supreme Pontiff and the College of Bishops in communion with him.'' A footnote on the section on moral teachings made specific reference to the late Pope Paul VI's 1968 encyclical Humanae Vitae, which banned artificial birth control. The ban on women priests is an example of a Church teaching which, although not specifically dogmatic, is a doctrine that has been ``set forth infallibly'' and ``constantly applied in the tradition of the Church.'' The Vatican says the Church does not have the authority to allow women to become priests because Christ, in a free and sovereign way, chose only men as his apostles. The Church asserts Christ was reflecting divine and not human will. Church leaders have rejected assertions by women's groups who say that by choosing only men Christ was merely acting in accordance with the social norms of his times. The Vatican said the same concept applied to euthanasia. Although nothing about euthanasia appears in the gospel, scripture ``clearly excludes every form of the kind of self-determination of human existence that is presupposed in the theory and practice of euthanasia.'' The Pope's Apostolic Letter included the types of phrases -- such as ``We order,'' ``We have decreed,'' and ``notwithstanding anything to the contrary'' -- that liberal Catholics have cited in accusing him of being authoritarian. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:37:07 -0400 From: The Yarn Kollection Subject: Re: NJC Art meets Technology Julie Z. Webb wrote: > Im so excited, I want to share this with everyone.... market > a 3 D/volume-measuring camera which my husband invented, Well today our > camera, "The Virtuoso" (www.visint.com) is featured in The New York Times/ > Science Times section in an article titled, "Michelangelo's Heartbreak > Comes to Life in New Light: transforming his Pieta to 80 Gigabytes" Our > 3d camera was the camera chosen by the team of scientists from IBM's TJ > Watson research center in order to explore and capture what the Pieta > looked like before the broken pieces were put back on. > -Julie, up in the clouds of Michelangelo...... Julie - This is great news. A round of applause for both you and Jon. It is good to see all that hard work, time and effort is producing fruit.Stealing a line or two from the wisdom of Nelson Mandela and the tactful posting of Marian Russell: We ask ourselves 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be? Way to go Webb's!!! Mendi -- "Don't listen to the din rising behind you. Look at life like a train wreck and one finds you. Light a match and your fear of fire will burn you down." P.L. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 02:32:20 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Re: Pope bans contraception, euthanasia, women priests At 02:21 PM 7/1/98 -0700, you wrote: > >[SINEAD WAS RIGHT ABOUT THE POPE.--ald] > > I thought she was right way back when. - -jan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 14:46:42 PDT From: "Don Rowe" Subject: Re: Pope bans contraception, euthanasia, women priests >I thought she was right way back when. >-jan > So was Joni: "How can he speak for the Prince of Peace/When he's hawk-right-militant ..." D Rowe ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:17:54 -0700 From: briano@interisland.net (Odlum, Brian) Subject: Re: Freedom of choice wr2 guns (NJC) Hello Folks, Heather wrote to Al Date: > PS - I've given you the nickmane "Al Nino of the JMDL" for stirring things > up around here 8-) (I mean that in a good way) I like it, and actually, I would like to publicly thank Al for initiating the "Joni Vs. Mother" thread(s). I know he took a lot of personal flack for his ideas, but I found them to be not only interesting and stimulating, but personally helpful to my own present life conflicts. One can never fully appreciate what somebody else may or may not receive from this discussion list. What's Joni's lyric? Something about "Where some folks find their paradise, others just come to harm." I'm probably misquoting, but I think it's close. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 18:58:28 +0000 From: "Deb Messling" Subject: Re: Pope etc. (NJC) Folks, let's please remember the NJC tag in the subject line. I believe that's a bit of etiquette spelled out in the initial JMDL welcome letter, so it isn't me being autocratic here - it's Les! Deb Messling "Without music, life would be an error." --Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:06:04 -0700 From: Al.Date@Eng.Sun.COM (Al Date) Subject: Republicans fight for the soul of the Party-- NJC [I would think that toleration of gays would be even more prevalent on this list than toleration of NRA gun-owners, but there's only one way to find out.--ald] New York Times 06-30-98 Intraparty Debate Breaks Out Among Republicans Over Criticism of Gays By RICHARD L. BERKE WASHINGTON -- Prominent Republican politicians and strategists say they are troubled by a wave of harsh anti-homosexual oratory from fellow Republicans, fearing it could make the party appear intolerant and drive out moderates and economic conservatives. The concerns are not limited to moderate Republicans. Many conservatives said the recent attacks on homosexuality by party leaders, candidates and local Republican officials could spur a reprise of the 1992 presidential campaign, when intramural skirmishes over issues like abortion turned off the wider electorate in the general election. Several Republicans said the blunt comments, notably those made in a recent interview by Sen. Trent Lott, R.-Miss., stemmed from a determination among some in the party to score points with the right wing and energize hard-core Republican voters. Lott, the Republican leader, had likened homosexuality to kleptomania, alcoholism and sex addiction. But many Republicans condemned the attacks as short-sighted. "The Republican Party has tripped over its own shoelaces and found itself on the defensive," said Ralph Reed, a Republican strategist and former head of the Christian Coalition. And Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind., took issue with his colleagues who contend that such statements "might energize the party." He said, "I don't believe the party is likely to grow stronger or our voters more numerous through attacks on minorities, whether they be sexual minorities or religious or racial minorities." Most accept that the remarks by Lott and Rep. Dick Armey, R-Texas, the majority leader, and many others reflect their genuine belief that homosexuality is a sin. What has changed is that there now is greater willingness among Republicans to speak bluntly instead of couching their beliefs in politically agreeable language. The shift appears to have been spurred by conservative leaders, notably Gary Bauer of the Family Research Council and Dr. James Dobson of the "Focus on the Family" radio talk show. The two are pressing lawmakers to emphasize their opposition to homosexuality as part of a social-issues agenda. "There's been a demand from some quarters that we aggressively attack the homosexual community," said Rep. Joe Scarborough, R-Fla., one of the most conservative House members. While he said the comments make some Republicans look like "strident, right-wing cartoon characters," Scarborough added, "There's not a real political downside right now." Scarborough, who is 35, said his position on gay rights was probably not much different from Lott's or others who have spoken out. Yet he suggested there was a generational difference, and that younger people like himself were more careful about their language because "we have all had friends who are gay and understand that they are not the demons that they're made out to be." Although some Republicans conceded that their party could not expect wide support from gay rights advocates, they said their biggest worry would be that the comments would offend so-called swing voters in the suburbs who are not particularly loyal to one party or another. John McLaughlin, a Republican pollster, said his surveys show the attacks on homosexuality offend voters even in the most conservative parts of the South. "In a lot of areas, this is not a threat to their values and their hometowns and their communities," he said of homosexuals. But by raising the issue, he said, "it makes Republicans look out of touch, like they care about things the voters don't care about." McLaughlin said his polling also found that the anti-gay oratory "makes Republicans look mean-spirited. Ronald Reagan may have been "anti-gay," he said, "but he wasn't somebody who disliked people." William Pascoe III, political director of the American Conservative Union, also said the anti-gay oratory would benefit Republicans. "Anytime you have Republican leaders citing the Bible as the foundation for their beliefs," he said, "as opposed to Democratic leaders citing the American Psychiatric Association, I think we win." But many Republicans condemned the attacks as short-sighted. "The Republican Party has tripped over its own shoe laces and found itself on the defensive," said Ralph Reed, a Republican strategist and the former executive director of the Christian Coalition. In his former position, Reed was careful not to attack homosexuals directly but instead capitalized on the issue by using code words like the coalition's belief in the "sanctity of marriage." The risk that Reed and other Republicans spoke of could not be quantified. But they said they feared that the blunt comments could cost the party not only moderates who favor homosexual rights but quite conservative Republicans who might consider attacks on homosexuals mean-spirited or inappropriate for a party that should concern itself with more pressing legislative matters. While leading Republicans insisted that there was no orchestrated drive in the party to go after homosexuals, there has been a drumbeat of criticism in recent days. The most notable came from Lott. His supporters said his remarks helped him with conservatives who were furious when he criticized the Air Force last year for ousting 1st Lt. Kelly Flinn on charges relating to from adultery. Several conservatives said comments in support of Lott by Armey, who wants to succeed Newt Gingrich as speaker, were intended to help him win favor with conservative House members who believe he has not been honest in acknowledging his role in the failed coup attempt against Gingrich. "The Bible is very clear on this," Armey said, adding that "both myself and Senator Lott believe very strongly in the Bible." In an interview published on Monday, Sen. Jesse Helms of North Carolina, a longtime foe of homosexuals, stepped up his criticism. "They start by pretending that it is just another form of love," he told Congressional Quarterly. "It's sickening." Helms was responding to a new documentary that criticizes his treatment of homosexuals. Asked about comments such as Lott's, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said, "I don't believe in discrimination of any kind." He said the Log Cabin Republicans, a gay organization, "should be part of our party." The tensions are reminiscent of the 1996 presidential contest, when Bob Dole's campaign was thrown into turmoil when it returned a contribution from the Log Cabin Republicans. But Jim Nicholson, chairman of the Republican Party, said the denunciations of homosexuality could be politically beneficial because "when people are honest about their views most people respect them." Nicholson said of the comments: "I'm not concerned about what any of those leaders have said. I agree with them. I don't know that we fully understand very much about the sources of homosexuality or if there is a way to alter that. I've talked to some people in both the scientific and theological communities, and they don't seem to be very clear about it." Earlier this month, Republican leaders in Texas barred the Log Cabin Republicans from setting up a booth at the party's state convention. Robert Black, a party spokesman, inflamed the issue when he likened the group to the Ku Klux Klan. Gov. George W. Bush of Texas, who is weighing a bid for President in 2000, won praise from Reed and other Republicans by trying to tamp down the oratory from the state party. A statement issued by his office said, "Gov. Bush believes all individuals deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. While he differs with the Log Cabin Republicans on issues such as gay marriage, he does not condone name calling." That same weekend, at a gathering of Republican presidential aspirants in Iowa, Bauer appeared with Reggie White, the Green Bay Packers star who had called homosexuality "one of the biggest sins in the Bible." And another prospective contender, Steve Forbes, appeared with the Rev. Louis Sheldon, a vociferous critic of homosexuals. Bauer said he spoke briefly with Lott after he made his comments -- and he expressed no regrets. "I told him to hang in there," Bauer recalled. "But he was feeling OK. Apparently he got a lot of phone calls from people saying that they admired his courage." As the debate continues among Republicans, this much is clear: Lott no longer wants to talk about homosexuals. Asked about his remarks, he replied, "I think enough has probably already been said about that." He then stuck out his tongue and sputtered into a reporter's tape recorder. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V3 #234 ************************** Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?